Good blog. You found the absolute bottom of society, who read word-a-day-toilet-paper for their power point word topics, and listen to idiotic leftists and praise the almighty "Che' while wearing his t-shirt (never mind the pinko faggot would hate that his image on a shirt was being sold in Wal-Mart).

To all the idiots out there, an open letter. I am a SSgt in the USAF. I am not uneducated. I graduated from AP classes in HS with a 3.79 GPA. I went to Penn State University as an Aerospace Engineer. After being tired of schooling for so many years, I enlisted. I graduated basic training and Tech School with Honors (learning languages). I earned 2 degrees and am working on my third. I am enlisted, not an officer. I have been to every continent on this planet except Antarctica, both before and during my service. I presently have 7.5 years active duty service. I have served in the middle east, in both wars, and I can tell you plainly, what you hear in the news is wrong, biased and absolutely counterproductive.

I normally don't go around and tell people about my job, my experiences, in peacetime and in the war-zone, but if someone asks I will tell them. And I will tell you this. The war is not lost. It never has been, we are winning this war by a large margin. The society we have today has a very short attention span and expects results in a condensed time-frame. War is hard, war is ugly, but war is necessary, unfortunately. For you liberals, I know you will never thank me, I know you will spit on me if you saw me, I know you will spout your rhetoric about peace and love, and never understand that you have those rights and freedoms to spout your nonsense in such a free society without people like me. I don't consider myself a hero, I'm just doing my job, because I love my country, and because everyone should be free, not just us, not just the upper middle class pseudo-hippies who claim to be the working class while they are getting scholarships and "daddy-money" to go to school and never work, to get a degree in philosophy.

You don't know jack about the world, your spring break trip to Cancun does not qualify you as a world traveler. You don't know anything, realize that, come to grips with it, then try to use some common sense, and stop listening to propaganda.

--Just the words of a veteran tired of idiots.

I have no argument with people who want to be part of the military. The military is necessary, although I wonder if it has to be as big as it is.

Still, the saddest part of the Iraq debacle is that all of our soldiers who have died and had parts of ther bodies blown off have died and suffered for nothing. Lies got us into this war and lies are keeping us there. I wonder why any soldier can support what Bush is doing when it has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with Republican political expediency.

How do the soldiers feel about having their lives and limbs tossed about for purely political gain?

Great blog, Urban!

Well said, SSgt Jim Henning! I have a few military pals who have served in Iraq who are confirming what you just said here: we are winning this war. Sigh. I'm sad to say it seems like America no longer knows how to finish a war; if World War II happened today, liberals would whine and complain in the masses; all of Europe would end up under Nazi rule. Patience and perseverance is rarely a liberal trait. Gosh, my grandpa's generation sacrificed so much, and never complained about it! They just did it, until the job was done!

Barry, do you care at all for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who were brutally killed by Saddam? You think you are all for humanity, but seriously, do you care about the future of those people at all? Have you looked into the eyes of those kids in the news? Don't you want them to have a freer future without Saddam and other extremists?

There can NEVER be world peace, until every last living thing in the world is dead: dictators will always rise up and cruelly oppress people; kids will always bully other kids on the playground; and rapists and robbers will always be there. Sadly, it's what a few humans will do, left unchecked. Most people are basically decent, but there is a small percentage of people who will be utterly twisted. If the decent people don't rise up to stop the twisted few, than oppression takes over. "Peace" has NEVER dissolved brutal oppression, greed, or dominance. Ever. Peace is a state of being... a nice gift when it happens... but not a virtue of character.

Brutal Mustang, if our aim was to liberate oppressed people, then we should have invaded China and gotten rid of the Communist party. That would have liberated 1 billion people.

Before the war, the Bushies floated the notion of deposing the despot Saddam as justification for invasion, and the American public wasn't impressed. The only thing that worked was the spectre of Iraq 45 minutes away from launching a nuclear attack on the US. That's what the Bushies lied about over and over to scare the public into going along with their hair-brained scheme.

And by the way, the notion that peace has never dissolved brutal oppression...did you ever hear about this guy named Jesus? Hate and violence only beget more hate and violence. But, I guess if we gave peace a chance, that would mean a smaller Pentagon budget, and this is really all just about money isn't it?

Barry Says: "The only thing that worked was the spectre of Iraq 45 minutes away from launching a nuclear attack on the US."

You tell me who said that. I will bet my hat it was not the President.

You libs love to forget the truth. If you need a reminder of the support for deposing Saddam Hussein, go here: http://tinyurl.com/2nytq5

Barry said: Brutal Mustang, if our aim was to liberate oppressed people, then we should have invaded China and gotten rid of the Communist party. That would have liberated 1 billion people.

We cannot liberate them all, but just because we can't help everybody, does it mean we shouldn't help anybody?

Barry said: And by the way, the notion that peace has never dissolved brutal oppression...did you ever hear about this guy named Jesus?

I would like to think Jesus wouldn't just stand there, watching someone get robbed, or raped, or beat up, if he was in the position to help. I'd like to think he would do something about it, even if it meant getting (or giving) a black eye. Heck, remember how mad he got in the temple, over-throwing the merchant tables tables and the dove cages because they'd turned the house of God into a den of thieves? He was violent in that instance. I think Jesus was the type of man who used as little force as necessary, but DID use force, if really needed.

DJ: Maybe the President never said that in so many words, but the notions of "yellow cake" sales to Iraq (lies), "45 minutes away from lauching a misslie attack" (a lie), Saddam supprts Al Queda (a lie), Saddam was connected to 9/11 (a lie) were repeated over and over by Bush, et al. They were very cagy never to say them together, but repeated these lies to confuse people and ingrain "Saddam...Al Quaeda....9/11...yellow cake" together as a mantra.

Meanwhile, we're on the way to spending $1 Trillion on this debacle, by General Petreus' own accounting. Instead of using that money to kill and occupy, think of how much good will we could have created by building schools, hospitals, homes, roads, power plants, etc., etc., instead.

Brutal Mustang: I can't answer for what Jesus would or wouldn't do (I think of Jesus as a fictional character), but you're the wone who said, " "Peace" has NEVER dissolved brutal oppression, greed, or dominance. Ever."

Barry, funny how you liberals like bringing up Jesus in these arguments, and yet know very little about Him.

Haven't you paid attention to human nature at all? Haven't you ever watched kids on a playground? Left without supervision, an aggressive child will almost always arise and start to bully the others. It's the inherent nature of our species. Perhaps if snails and bunny rabbits ruled the world, we'd have that world peace you desire!

Barry, you honestly can't use Jesus as an example if you hardly know anything about him. And it's a wrong to think of him as a fictional character, Jesus actually did exist, it's been proved scores of times. You don't have to believe he was the son of God or anything (I don't, I'm athiest), but denying his existance is just pathetic.

OH YAY WORLD PEACE. IF WE TALK TO THE BAD PEOPLE IN A NICE WAY AND SHOW THAT WE CAN LOVE THEY'LL DROP ALL ATTACK AND WE'LL ALL BE HAPPY. WHAT A GREAT WORLD IT WOULD BE!!!

Unfourtunatly, the world DOESN'T work like that. These people were raised from the day that they were born to hate America, to hate freedom. They don't hesitate, they have no mercy. 9/11 proves that, and "talking" to them isn't exactly going to help.

Sunshine-happy-rainbows don't fix problems, the USA wasn't created by talking to King George III. Slavery wasn't abolished by speading joy. I do believe that hippies have tried to spread peace, and yet that hasn't worked at all. (It only made a bunch of angry druggies)

To Barry:

If you're not sure our military needs to be as big as it is, then you need to investigate the enormous military build-up of China and the Russian Federation. A good place to start is our Navy which has fewer than 300 active war ships to China's 750 (larger than the US during WWII). While we’ve been downsizing over the last twenty years, China and the Russian Fed have been growing substantially. Throw in fairly recent joint-training exercises between the two countries and it gets even more interesting.

It's always good to be ready for the worst.

Its disappointing that people like Barry are out there. They just don't understand how things work. Most all politicians, even Hillary, came out and agreed with the war when it was first proposed after 9/11. Once they realized that we got into something that will take longer then they expected they, and the main stream media, turned on Bush. Its just points out the lack of character the liberals have. They lack patience. People like Barry bring up the money that we have spent on the war....I'd rather spend money on fighting terrorists in a foreign country then spending it on welfare or other social programs and risk being attacked agian. I fear that it will take another 9/11 for the liberals to respect and be thankful for our military and all the sacrafices they have made.

Viet Nam War Memorial Defaced

I just became aware today of the defacement of the Viet Nam War memorial in Washington courtesy of my blogger colleague, Lew Waters. It appears that the incident happened sometime around September 7. The perpetrators are as yet unknown. It appears that someone sprayed an oily substance onto parts of the wall which have caused damage to the marble surface and affected the legibility of many of the names. Aside from the outrage this is causing many of us, I am asking- Why didn't the mainstream news media cover this story?


Let's talk first about the outrage we feel toward the perpetrators. That some segment of our society is so twisted with hate for our country and its military to commit this kind of act sickens me to my stomach. Yet, it doesn't surprise me. We indeed have a segment of our population, almost exclusively on the far-left, that hates America. They want us to lose in Iraq, and they want this country to collapse into the mire, so that people like them can reshape it into their own preferred model. Lew, in his blog, was seething with rage-to the point of using profanities to describe his contempt for the perpetrators. I don't blame him one bit. I myself knew and grew up with two men whose names are on that wall. While I served in Germany during the Viet Nam War, they went to Viet Nam and died, not yet 21, one receiving a Silver Star in the process.


As Lew so eloquently points out, our Viet Nam veterans were despised by the far-left, largely on our university campuses during that conflict. Many were shunned, even spat upon when they returned home, never receiving the respect and gratitude they deserved. They watched while one of their own, John Kerry, savaged them and called them murderers, parlaying his fame with Viet Nam Veterans Against the War into a US Senate seat. Is it any wonder that many of them are still walking around with psychological scars, in some cases, drug-addicted and homeless? They were betrayed by counter-culture bums of their own age who did everything they could to evade military service-most notably, Bill Clinton.


Today, we have the children of that mixed generation (my generation) pulling the same antics, disrespecting our soldiers, past and present. We have a political party that runs Congress, many of whose leaders have called our soldiers Nazis, operators of Soviet gulags who terrorize Iraqi women and children in the middle of night, bomb villages and commit cold-blooded murder and torture. Want some names? How about John Kerry, Dick Durban, John Murtha and Barack Obama?


Our Viet Nam vets were also betrayed by the liberal elite in our country. It is commonly said by many on the left that Viet Nam was a military defeat for America. It wasn't. Our soldiers were never defeated in a single battle by the enemy. It was a political defeat because the country and its leadership at home lost the will to continue.


Speaking of the liberal elite, have you noticed how many liberal blogs marked Veterans Day? Very few. The only thing I found on Daily Kos was an article whose theme was Veterans as homeless people-no tribute to the noble job they did while in service. In contrast, the overwhelming majority of conservative blogs posted tributes to our veterans and current military to mark Veterans Day. Shouldn't that tell you something about which side is right?


My next issue is why are we now just hearing about this defacement that apparently occurred on or about September 7. Doing a Google search on "Viet Nam Wall Defaced", it seems that the only sector reporting on this incident is the conservative blogosphere. What about the Mainstream Media? Missing in action, folks, as usual. Why? Because to report this story just might awaken some patriotic outrage on the part of the public-the last thing the MSM wants to do. This only reinforces the obvious fact that the MSM selectively reports stories that further their leftist agenda while ignoring or downplaying those that run counter to that agenda.


Make no mistake about it, we are engaged in battle for the direction this country will go. If the elements that would deface the Viet Nam War Memorial-probably the most moving memorial in our land- prevail in this battle, then America will go right down the drain and suddenly, like the Soviet Union, collapse like house of cards.

gary fouse
fousesquawk

Can you define winning the war in Iraq? what would that entail?

p.s. I am asking not because i want to prove you wrong, but only because I am trying to form my own opinions about the topic.

What about the protest group Veterans for Peace?
I'd be curious to hear what you have to say about them.
Is it so wrong to not want to send our troops overseas to die in a foreign land unless it is absoutely necessary?

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/

Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved. The president’s approval rating among the military is only slightly higher than for the population as a whole. In 2004, when his popularity peaked, 63 percent of the military approved of Bush’s handling of the war. Just as telling, in this year’s poll only 41 percent of the military said the U.S. should have gone to war in Iraq in the first place, down from 65 percent in 2003. That closely reflects the beliefs of the general population today — 45 percent agreed in a recent USA Today/Gallup poll.

This was taken from the military times. There are many of us Liberals in the military and we just so happen to love our country. The difference between a liberal in the military and anyone else (who follows along with the status quo) is that we research the things we believe in and we don't just believe what is spoon fed to us.
"The idea of a strong, well funded and disciplined military under civilian control is a liberal idea, as is the notion of Veteran's benefits and military retirement."

The same as we say we should support our troops is the same as saying we should protect our freedom of speech. You can't condemn the people who protest and give their opinions. By criticizing them you are saying that everything this country has fought for is meaningless. Therefore the freedoms fought by wars past were meaningless. Guess that would mean you aren't supporting your troops.

As a military officer, I might have to take offense to that.

Barry said: "...think of how much good will we could have created by building schools, hospitals, homes, roads, power plants, etc., etc., instead"

Holy crap! Liberals are either uninformed or misinformed. Try checking out the Multi-National Force's website and you will find out that we have done exactly what you claim we haven't.

Stay informed. Check out Made In The USA

I consider myself slightly to the left on many issues, and one of which is the War in Iraq. I find it insulting how many Neo Conservative people believe that those who are against the War are also against the Troops. This is just not true, and actually is more of the opposite.

Also, nitpicking at a vast amount of Liberal quotes from all over the internet hardly makes your point that "Liberals Hate the Military".

I'm sure nitpicking from Neo Conservatives like Ann Coulter would more than likely have the vast majority of conservatives saying to themselves, "I'm not with stupid!"

I'm not sure that EXTREME Liberals hate the Military - although several liberals (and some conservatives as well) definitely do.

The simple truth is that the most extreme liberals and the most extreme conservatives, while supporting completely opposite ideals, promote exactly the same policies in the end - although there really is no adequate way to describe this...

I would actually suggest that extreme liberals (more extreme than the ones you refer to) love the military - just look at the communist countries:
The former USSR engaged in a huge military build-up during the Cold War and even invaded Afghanistan
The communists in northern Vietnam and Korea fought major wars to expand to the southern regions of their country (in the case of Korea, before the split).
China is using its military to suppress people in Tibet and other western Chinese provinces

The governments above are all based on extremely liberal ideologie, but they love their militaries - although this may be because the actual governments are very conservative in practice...

I guess I'm mostly curious about why disliking a violent organization (although I do support and appreciate the protection it provides) is so frowned upon by you conservatives...

Im positive Liberals hate the army. They grew in an environment in total Pacisfist world...They obvioulsy don't see the real scyme of why some wars are necessary. They probably dont see the reality of this world. If you gave them an example...per say a guy pointed a gun right to your childs head...What are you gonna do? Tell him not to with a cherry on top? Of course not, you would fight that man for what he coud've done to your own child. Now, thats just an example, in a bigger plot, like Hitler killing and murdering countless people just because of their religeon...what are you gonna do? send him an angry leter telling him how angry we are with him? Answer these questions, extremists.

Your response to Say Your Worst is ridiculous and hypocritical, when you posted a blog quoted a "liberal friend of yours" who blatantly said that you can't support any troops who participate in the war you don't support.

BobHelix said: "The governments above are all based on extremely liberal ideologie, but they love their militaries - although this may be because the actual governments are very conservative in practice"

It is misleading using the term "conservative" to compare communist/dictatorship/totalitarian countries whose "conservatives" want to preserve their lack of freedom to American "conservatives" who want to preserve the principles of our foundation, especially our freedom, and our Constitution and Bill Of Rights. I understand that it is correct in usage, but it is certainly misleading, especially when the "mainstream" media loves to throw the term around when describing fanatics in Saudia Arabia, Iran, China, etc.

Anon,

just lettin ya know, it was the conservatives who wanted to stay out of WW2. WHAT?!??!??!?!?!?

and also, their is a difference between talking before the threat has come to fruition and talking once it has. You are retarded not to see the difference.

Why is this someone else's picture and profile link attached to my comment?
http://www.mybloglog.com/buzz/co_redir.php?t=&a...

Your site needs help since I would prefer to use my own image and profile.

I heard of a class at a college that tought non violent civil disobediance as an alternative to having a standing military. What did them communist fags like Ghandi and Martin Luther King ever achieve that way?

It's just more proof that college campuses are bastions of left wing, latte liberals, who hate the military, God and America. I even hear rumors of baby sacrifices.

SSgt is right! I bet he couldn't stand them damn liberal instructors at Penn State. And the prospect of being an Aerospace Engineer and having to deal with all of them Muslim engineers from Packistan and possibly live in a city with all the creepy fags must have been the last straw.

God bless him!

After I read that comment about the Vietnam wall being defaced I went to go ask my dad if he hear anything about it. Him being in the USAF for well over 20 years, served in Operation: Desert Storm, and is volunteering to go to Iraq sometime next month, Has not heard anything about that. Neither has my mother who also serves in the USAF. I can't imagine what kind of people would do that to a memorial for people who DIED for our freedom. I have yet to see the real world since I still live with my parents (im 17) and I just don't understand why people would go that far to get their point acrossed.

"I just don't understand why people would go that far to get their point acrossed."

Say hello to the mindset of "the angry left" in this country.

Hey I noticed how u guys talk down about the army and believe that there must be something wrong with the people in the army, as if we dont have it all. But in all reality if u  know what reality is, the army life isn't bad and plus its symbolizes much more than anyone in my old civilian world can comply with. Although i have just joined i feel as if i was meant to be in the army. No we are not brain washed or ignorant, or uneducated... The thing about us Soldiers is that we wanted to stand out from the rest, to have  something to be proud of, and to allow people around the world know that yes we are fighting for our country. Yea this war may or may not be for a good reason, but if that is what it takes for us to be a free country than we SOLDIERS will do what we have to do to make sure we have that freedom. Now i know alot of liberalist they are stubborn in thier ways because they dont want to believe in the real truth but take it from me The Military is only doing what they were built to do and that is to protect, and serve for our country.

On another note about the war i agree that many people die in this god-forsaken war but think about it... If we dont defend our country who will? Are one of u LIBERALISTS going to stand up and defend the very own place that u rest at? Or will u tremble in a corner while the world around u falls apart.... Dwell on that and let me know... I myself and niether for or against the war but if i have to than I'll do it cause hey this is my job and my life now...

"extreme liberals have never embraced sacrifice, tasted honor, felt courage, experienced conviction or touched a fragment of commitment."

wow

why are conservatives always so mean spirited in their arguments? can't we talk intelligently about this? as an "extreme liberal" I would never make such an insulting, hateful, sweeping generalization such as this.  but that's probably because I have "embraced sacrifice, tasted honor, felt courage, experienced conviction or touched a fragment of commitment" and I believe that most everyone has.  regardless of political opinions

geez

@missbotanist

that's my style.  sorry.

Anyone who actually HATES the military is pretty much, and I hate to use this term, anti-american.


The soldiers who comprise the military are this country's sons, daughters, uncles, aunts, grandparents, brothers and sisters.


Basically, you're against your fellow Americans.


To serve in the armed forces of a FREE REPUBLIC is something to be respected and admired. Nobody MAKES these guys do it, they do it of their own free will. Cheers to them, they are the heroes among us.


The fact that they're being misused - look at our commander in chief, and ask him. 


I don't know why we went to Iraq. Seriously I don't know, but good is coming of it. The Iraqi people and their leaders are standing up for themselves, and the region is doing far better than before. We went in for the wrong reasons, to oust Saddam and stop him from using WMD that weren't there instead of fighting Terrorism and our REAL enemies of Al-Qaeda, but some good may yet come of Bush's crappy decisions.

Sorry, you are wrong about liberals hating the military, it's CONSERVATIVES that hate the military, esp. the ones that are CHICKENHAWKS.

http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2008/11/04/the-shi...

Read it and weep.

"extreme liberals have never embraced sacrifice, tasted honor, felt courage, experienced conviction or touched a fragment of commitment."

Right like George Bush and John McCain who got to where they were based on who their father was and a phone call rather than actually working hard like Barack Obama. Nice try right winger. Hope you like your new Democratic majority House, Senate, and now Democratic President.

Keep up the conservative spin BS and you will have Democratic dominance for years to come

Michael,

You're and idoit.

spell idiot correctly and I would be more inclined to believe you.

There are obviously two Michaels on this site.  One certainly does not suffer from liberalism.

Extreme liberals do hate the military.  And they forget (or do they?) that it is the sacrifices of our military men and women who fight and die for their freedom to say so.  I am a First Class Petty Officer in the US Navy and as was said a long time ago by the SSgt, I am also not uneducated.  I have been serving this country for going on 8 1/2 years and probably will continue to do so.  Its interesting though, over 8 years ago when I chose to join it was somewhat because I had nowhere else to go in life, so I thought.  The Navy sounded like a good place to make a new start and at the same time let me show my patriotism.  This was all before 9/11 even happened.  That terrible day just simply reaffirmed in me my desire to do what I could for my country.  I have two sons.  I am a conservative and I serve for a few simple and related reasons...  I believe in this country and the principles that it was founded on and believe that it is necessary to fight for those principles.  I am proud to be an American, despite its flaws, nowhere else on earth can you find a better place.  I want to teach my children that nothing in life is free and that you have to work for it and although a person is entitled to their opinion they must make those choices on their own and must have a logical reason to believe as they do.  I want my children to grow up to be successful and to live in this country without the fear of terrorists, oppressive and expansionist anti-American nations and above all the fear of its own government trying to grow into something from the history books...  Liberals seem to want nothing more than for our country to go the way of every other dictative and controlling nation.  A nation where faith in God & Country and human rights no longer truly exist.

It was quoted above:
"Right like George Bush and John McCain who got to where they were based on who their father was and a phone call rather than actually working hard like Barack Obama"

Why do comments like these not surprise me.  I dont think anyone on this site (including I'm sure many liberals) needs clarification on how terribly wrong this statement is.  As for Obama working hard.  It seems that indeed he did work hard to get where he is in life....  He is currently working hard too, at bankrupting our country and being perhaps one of the most hypocritical men I have had the pleasure of living and serving under...  It is my desire that he wakes up and realizes that his partys' leftist agenda is only serving to hurt this country and his name.  If he truly wanted to be bipartisan he would really listen to the conservatives and come to a true form of compromise rather than shoving socialism down our throats. 

So maybe my expectations are high.  There is nothing wrong with a bit of optimism.

As an "extreme" Liberal I actually feel the exact opposite, I feel that YOU hate the military. I feel that I am trying to protect our boys from pointless deaths. While you are sending them to die in a war that has nothing to do with America.

This war is centered in Iraq, Iraq did not attack us! Al Qaeda did, and prior to us being there Al Qaeda was not even in Iraq (now they are the strongest faction next to us there) I am tired of hearing about our boys and girls dying for this reason. I want to protect them. You do not.

I support the troops you Hate them

From an extreme liberal.

John--you have got to be kidding and must live in a fantasy world.  understanding that there have been training camps in many countries long before 9/11 and that people are taught to hate us from the time they are born will do you some good.  i also suggest that you study the mid-eastern culture and meet people who actually have knowledge of the hatred for our country.  these folks have false reasons of their hate most of the time and only hate us because they are told to do so.  I have a friend from my college days that is from Israel.  She had to serve in the army as a requirement by all citizens.  I was truly enlightened at the horrific things she experienced and the amount of hatred that she saw.  your philosophies by their very nature WILL fail.  the mideastern culture is one of "show me" or you are weak and I won't respect you and will come after you.  those are just some of the facts.  no amount of talking or bribing will prevent us from being attacked or from being hated.  the no-fly zone that we were protecting had to do with our military and hussein shot at our pilots hundreds and hundreds of times.  with his threats and the shots he took to attempt to take our planes down, we should have gone in long before then.  Iran is right at the border of Iraq and i could go on.  Afghanistan also had to do with us.  hussein's threats were a threat to our world.  this is a global situation and not a regional one.  the UN is useless regardless of the pansies that keep going to them with no results.  they are not respected and are laughed at.  if this isn't enough, i would think that as a human, you would not think it was proper for hundreds of elementary-aged girls to be raped by one of hussein's sons and left for dead or prostitution in the streets.  due to their culture, the parents didn't want them back.  that is enough for me to justify this war because i'm a mom!  we saved many, many people from torture and suffering.  hussein and his sons terrorized their own people and killings were normal.  everyone lived in fear, especially the women.  now everything is not perfect but girls are now allowed to go to school and have more freedoms.  that's enough for me as a human and mom!  unfortunately, as a liberal, i don't expect you to ever get it and my post will be a mute point to you and your cronies.  however, i'm happy i wrote it anyway.

What about all the torture that Al Qaeda and EVIL that they do to their people, that was not in Iraq before nothing has changed, in fact it has gotten worse! Before their was no civil war because Sadam would not let it happen (I do not defend him, he is what is defined as Evil, I just cant accept the fact that we went there and our getting our boys killed on the basis of another countries morals)

If they truly attacked us or if they were going to then I might support the war (I support the troops not the war) but Iraq did not, that is fact.

This war in the middle East has been going on for thousands and thousands of years. Do you really honestly think that we have the power to stop it??

I am extremely well educated in this matter I have talked to many people from the middle east and people who have visited their, The consensus was. Originally their was a light of hope so we were welcomed, When they realized we were only going to make things worse by trying to force them to be a democracy when they are EXTREMELY unstable they want us out.

This is not our war, Our boys die daily on the basis of morals and not American freedom. I agree what is being done to those poor girls is so far beyond wrong, but what can we do?? the situation is getting worse not better, tell me what a REAL option is that dose not involve more innocent American lives lost, and maybe I will consider supporting this war.

By the way do you realize the UN was put together by America so by calling the UN weak you call America weak, America is the main faction in the UN, and if the rest of the world thinks hmm maybe supporting this war isnt such a good Idea I think we should hop on the band wagon...WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD!

John, while you make some valid points, everyone in the middle east does not feel this way and there are those who welcome our help.  i have not agreed with every decision that was made during the war that Bush made.  however, i don't have a problem with us completing the job.   we have great allies that help us but we also have countries that sit and complain and wait for us to take action.  there are also countries that support terriorists or have their own selfish agendas that will eventually hurt us and/or our allies.  we could argue this all day.  at the end of the day, you are a liberal.  you guys don't seem to understand the term "war."  blood is shed regardless unfortunately.  our soldiers are proud of the work they do and see value in it or they wouldn't enlist and re-enlist.  i value them too and appreciate the work they are doing.  as a result of obama's back-pedaling, the CIA didn't interrogate a guy because they didn't want to get into hot water.  instead they sent him to the military.  it is sad they are afraid to do their jobs.  Hopping on the band wagon with the rest of the world would not make us the greatest nation in the world.  we have to make decisions on our own and lead the world.  look at Japan and you will know they won't go to war for any reason.  we were attacked and if we took their philosophy, we would not fight back.  give me a break.  being on the defensive is not smart!  oh and let's not forget what catro is saying today.  so much for obama's "talking."  who didn't see that coming?

Thank you, Michael.  You brought up good points.
Very shortly, you will be called names.   I haven't posted on this site much but have already been called Hanoi Jane by the plastic patriot, Bud who believes that just by slapping that flag decal on his vehicle
absolves him of any responsibility  to actually BE an American.

This is a copy and paste that you can find at the beginning of this site.  I am re-newing it because I to am a ex-military man with high praise for the military and hopes for our country because of them...

To all the idiots out there, an open letter. I am a SSgt in the USAF. I am not uneducated. I graduated from AP classes in HS with a 3.79 GPA. I went to Penn State University as an Aerospace Engineer. After being tired of schooling for so many years, I enlisted. I graduated basic training and Tech School with Honors (learning languages). I earned 2 degrees and am working on my third. I am enlisted, not an officer. I have been to every continent on this planet except Antarctica, both before and during my service. I presently have 7.5 years active duty service. I have served in the middle east, in both wars, and I can tell you plainly, what you hear in the news is wrong, biased and absolutely counterproductive.
I normally don't go around and tell people about my job, my experiences, in peacetime and in the war-zone, but if someone asks I will tell them. And I will tell you this. The war is not lost. It never has been, we are winning this war by a large margin. The society we have today has a very short attention span and expects results in a condensed time-frame. War is hard, war is ugly, but war is necessary, unfortunately. For you liberals, I know you will never thank me, I know you will spit on me if you saw me, I know you will spout your rhetoric about peace and love, and never understand that you have those rights and freedoms to spout your nonsense in such a free society without people like me. I don't consider myself a hero, I'm just doing my job, because I love my country, and because everyone should be free, not just us, not just the upper middle class pseudo-hippies who claim to be the working class while they are getting scholarships and "daddy-money" to go to school and never work, to get a degree in philosophy.
You don't know jack about the world, your spring break trip to Cancun does not qualify you as a world traveler. You don't know anything, realize that, come to grips with it, then try to use some common sense, and stop listening to propaganda.
--Just the words of a veteran tired of idiots.

you left out his part about "pinko faggots"  , plastic man.  and you failed to give him credit- if,  in fact it actually is another person.
after clicking on his name- it lead to a dead link.

Hanoi Jane, I think UC had mercy on you faggots and left it out.  I didn't remove it, BELIEVE ME!

goodness, gramps- don't get your thong in a twist.   .   gosh you are certainly a nasty old man,  aren't you.
your use of this hate word is an indication of your limited education and your own  huge personal issues.

I only use that word when they keep on insisting I listen to their BS.  To me that is a good word.  That word has been around longer than gay.  It is really Queer and Lesbians.  Gay just came on the scene to make it seem a little cleaner.  It's still the most "out-of-the-ordinary" thing a human being could ever do.  I could puke just thinking about the act...  You call it a hate word and that's wrong, I don't hate anyone!

Notice that he also listened to the criticism and saw the folly of this notion...unlike the decider-guy.   It was a dumb idea and Obama  dropped it.  Instead of giving him good marks for this you continue your rants.  There is just no getting around the fact that you get off on being the evil witch, Titus.

Bud, the word has been around longer because hate and ridicule has deep roots.

Dora, so you can call me all kinds of names but as soon as I say one I'm a hate monger huh?  A time or two I thought you might have a little sense, YOU'RE NUTS!

By the way, theres new content on my web site...

what name?  bubba?-  you used this name for your own self so it's not that...or perhaps it's "right wing nut"  - that's what you are and have freely admitted it.  you are a spreader of hate- and the "site" that you endorse is your stamp of approval on this activity. 
Me nuts?  Why?  Because I have called you out on your continued misrepresentations,  foul verbiage and attitude? 
Come on, Gramps- you can do better than that.
You have displayed constantly that you are a "patriot " in name only.
You pick and choose what parts of the law you care to follow.  You consider the Constitution and the Bill of Rights mere suggestions yet you freely assign liberals as those without values or morals.
hmmmmm,

If obama wanted to protect the soldiers, the thought would have never crossed his mind much less have been brought up.  of course, it may have if he didn't know what he was doing.  now that is a novel idea!  but hey, it is your right to keep protecting him.

Bud--great website.  these left-winged nuts are the haters.  you have a great outlook on what America was founded on and our core principals.  i appreciate you input.

Click on my name HJ, it will lead you somewhere!

JD reporting for duty, bubba-  don't know who HJ is but I clicked on your name to view your right wing website.  I have a question for you.
Did you finish grade school?  If your answer is yes,  are you really this gullible?  This site- you are still salivating about Obama's birth certificate??!   Asked and answered many, many times over, bubba.  His birth certificate was never in question, it has been authenticated and posted online for all to view for a very, very long time.   
You have serious issues, bubba- and they have nothing to do with Obama's birth certificate.

JD, you sure you wanna march in my parade?  You better be ready before you report to me.  I don't think you have what it takes!

As far as the birth certificate it was as phony as Obama and a lot of his cronies.  I have a picture of it in my files if you would like to take a look at it...  But, liberals who never tasted reality could look at anything and call it a birthday card.

By the way, the HJ was for Hanoi Jane - remember her?  Course, you knew that already.

well, obama has too many screw ups to his credit now.  he is a joke of a man much less anything else.  so today, we find out we don't get to see the $300k+ fly over pictures that we paid for and AIG's bonuses are 4X more than once thought!  hmmmmm!  i guess if obama had actually read the bill he signed (he is a lawyer) this F#@# up would never have happened presuming he is able to understand such matters.  of course, there is an excuse as usual for him and the rest of the left-winged morons that are part of his party, i.e, pelosi, reid, dodd and frank.  boy, i'm just glad i have morals values and would not be associated the them at all!  oh, obama bowed, nancy pelosi knew about waterboarding and dodd is a crook!  hmmmmm!  who knew?

Makes you really wonder how many screw ups can the leberals cover up.  They just keep making excuses, excuses and excuses.  He didn't mean that...  This is what he meant to say...  Here's what he was trying to say...  This is really what he said...  You just didn't hear him right...  I've heard them all...  Maybe!

Bud--you are right.  there may be more excuses that we just haven't heard yet.  LOL!  I just know they are coming!  Did you read my post #59 above also?  now who in their right mind would even think to put the healthcare costs back on the soldiers to file with their insurance company first?  I know the answer to this one!  Someone who wastes the taxpayer's money in a time of economic crisis and instead of cutting unnecesary spending, the moron decides to consider picking on the very folks who protect us.  so much for a responsible leader.  ha!  i made another mistake i should have said he is a failed, irresponsible idiot.  to prove it we could ask his poor elderly aunt living in proverty off the US government.  it would be easy to understand obama's irresponsible character after seeing her.  of course, we can see it but the liberals might need to pay her a visit so they could experience obama's wrath!

as we can see liberals are just great folks who care about people--not!

It looks as though you people have nothing but bad things to say about Obama but Titus- above- implies that Obama knew of the additional bonus $$ that AIG paid out-  This was revealed only yesterday. During his testamony,  Liddy either lied or the left hand did not know what the right hand was doing within that company.  Your attempts to blame this too on Obama is fraudulent.   Further, you have said in previous posts regarding bonus money and Dodd-  that he removed this provision thus allowing the money to be paid.  Again, you are absent of the facts,  Titus.  Dodd wanted the bonus $$'s to not be paid.  He was informed by legal heads that there was a contract in place for these bonus $$'s and any attempt to deprive individuals their contracted $$'s would result in lengthly legal litigations.   Yes,  Dodd then removed the provision regarding bonus $$- but you failed entirely to state WHY. 
This site seems to constantly complain, constantly critize, constantly beat your collective chests but your party is so fractured and non-representative of the vast majority of the American voter and so out of touch with the tremendous changes in social attitudes and demographics that you are doomed to continued failure until you get some understanding of this.   Your original T.E.A. party organizer even said yesterday that he was hugely disappointed with the event because it was taken over by corporate interests and ceased being a "grass roots" event from it's inception.   Your spokesperson,  Rush Limbaugh continues to draw huge $$ from his employer while his employer dumps over 3,000 employees to the unemployment line in order to cover Limbaugh's wallet  - even as their stock continues to plunge.  Wow.  Now there are some morals and values for you.  Limbaugh is equally selfish as you people here.
And you have the balls to critize the auto workers for not giving up even more pay "for the good of the company".  Hypocrisy abounds within your ranks.

Bud, your comments regarding the birth certificate have placed you in the loony bin pile  along with those in denial on the moon landing,  Jim Jones followers,  and Heaven's Gate believers.   Anything you attempt to promote hereafter is additional folly.  
If your eyes are failing due to your advanced age,  get someone to read to you.

god, tits- you are roaming the streets? 
they let you out?

Jane Dough (69)

Bud, your comments regarding the birth certificate have placed you in the loony bin pile  along with those in denial on the moon landing,  Jim Jones followers,  and Heaven's Gate believers.   Anything you attempt to promote hereafter is additional folly.  
If your eyes are failing due to your advanced age,  get someone to read to you.

HJ, when I see something that resembles a real birth certificate, I promise you I will shut up.  Until then, eat my dust!

Boy, liberals really make up excuses.  I know why Dodd changed the wording.  He was pressured by the treasury dept and instead of being honest and telling folks he changed it, he decided to keep it a secret.  however, since obama and the democrats didn't bother reading the bill, they acted as if the bonuses were a shock.  hahah!  keep making up excuses.  i saw the whole story as it came out.  you can twist it as you will.

Babar, you gotta do better than that.  Show me something positive about Obama and I will gladly acknowledge it.  He is my president also...  GET IT?

positive about Obama-  that's pretty easy- he's not related to george bush.  he understands the constitution.  he's willing to listen to other people's ideas,  he's not afraid of turning down a good idea  even if it should come from a republican.   he's a wonderful father and loving husband who respects his wife as an equal.  he treasures his children.
he has a better understanding  of  "just folks" than  many current politicians and former presidents  because he was not born into wealth and needed to work for his achievements instead of relying on daddy's phone call to make a way.

it will most likely be only a matter of time before the nasty bitter woman who calls herself Titus bounces in and drops off her words of spite and hate regarding Obama. from what I have read here,  it's what she does.  what a shame.

If that is what you believe, I have no complaints with it.  I do know some of what you said is true.

True: He's not related to GW Bush.
False: He understands the constitution.  He may be able to recite forward it and backwards but understand it, I don't think so...
True: He does listen to other peoples ideas.  Pelosi's, Reed's, Dod's, Kennedy.  However, if they don't fit into his agenda then he ignores them...
?????: Hes not afraid of turning down a good idea.  This could be a whole different world.
True: I am sure he is a good father and a loving husband.
False: He has a better understanding of "Just Folks."  More like, using "Just Folks" would probably fit better.
True: He was not born into wealth.  He was born in another country...

I am still wondering what a "real American" is Bud.
Titus.
perhaps you live in West Virginia- that's where Sarah Palin said the "real Americans" lived. 
I wonder who all of these people are that populate the rest of this country. 
Bud,  I kind of feel sorry for you - a little.  When people get old some lose their capacity to do certain things. 
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcerti...

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/...

And, a little trivia for you for future reference, Bud:
Martin Van Buren our eighth President was the first President to have been born in the United States.

I think Bud is right.   Do you live near Area 51?  Had any space ships abduct you lately, Bud?  I did.  I have little brown dots on my knees because of this.  Did you know the moon is not made of green cheese- it's blue.  I read it on the internet.     Did you know that people in Australia have to wear weight belts to keep from falling off of the earth, Bud?  It's true,  I just got that email today.
The leaning tower of Pisa has somehow righted itself.   I read it on the internet.
I also know why Mona Lisa is smiling- she told me.
I'm glad that you have Bud here- he and I think alike.
What sign are you, Bud?

About that leaning tower, it did not straighten itself, my uncle did it.  He told me he did.  CASE CLOSED!

By the way, I have a photo of it!

I'll just bet you do, Bud!  I do too!  My dad took it.  He never could hold his booze either.
I also have a photo of a jackalope  and an actual thoughtful republican before they became extinct.   I am thinking of selling it on Ebay.

"That is why obama was contemplating a new policy a while back?  obama was considering requiring our soldiers who were hurt in the line of duty to file on their personal insurance (if they had any) first.  after much criticism, obama dropped it.  yeah, that is called looking out for our soldiers.  what a joke!"

Titus,
So let me get this right. You are bashing Obama bc he was "contemplating" (big SAT word for you I know) even though it was nowhere close to becoming policy. It's your SPECULATION (another SAT word which I'm sure you can look up the meaning of) that it was due to criticism that he dropped it, instead of him just not choosing that as a decision on his own, after doing what you fail at which is called critical thinking.

ABSOLUTE FAIL. If that's all your brainpower could muster, you're better off having liberals fight your battles for you chickenhawk.

careful, michael- you are trying to talk sense to someone incapable of understanding.   titus only complains.  she has no answers except that all liberals are idiots.   she blames Obama even for her hangnails and her belly button lint.   then the pretend patriot, Bud will pop in and tell you to move out of the country.  DS will then throw his bible in your face,  sic his god on you and damn you to hell for having an opinion differing from his.   it does not matter if you are christian - you are obviously the "wrong kind of Christian" and a product of Satan himself. 

- forever consistant in their combined ability to completely ignore the facts.  none of them could find their rear ends with both hands.

Michael--keep it up.  i'm laughing and so are a lot of folks!

As a woman, I find Titus and her language offensive.
As an American, I find Titus and her lack of respect for other people's freedoms offensive.
As a Christian,  I find Titus a flaming hypocrite.
As a mother, I find Titus a good example of a bad example.

DS and Bud--it really amazes me that people are stupid enough to concentrate on me when they should be concentrating on the problems of this country.  that is a typical liberal attitude though.  people should be angry at this government.  any good parent would worry about obama's policies and how our children and grandchildren are going to pay back all of this debt that he has given us.  True Americans are angry that this government has lied to us time and time again.  there are people who can't feed their families, are losing their homes, and have children that are suffering.  despite this, obama continues to ignore these problems and has decided to put more pressure on small businesses to ensure they either close their doors or layoff more people.  obviously, there was a lot of wasteful spending and the "screwups" will cost this country even more.  i expect liberals to be offended because they were not concerned about our country and the destruction of it in the first place.  that is very UnAmerican!  being offended is just another way to say i'm a wimp and am not adult enough to be able to handle the facts!

I don't know what freedoms you believe President Obama has taken from you.
I don't know what makes you feel secure in the idea that liberals are the root cause of all of your discomfort.
I don't know why people like you constantly vote against your best interests.
The wasteful spending that you have mentioned has taken place over a very long period of time - particularly so within the past 8 years.
About other issues, other than you:
Why do you spend so much time bad mouthing liberals and Obama?
Are you one of those pinheads that have a birth certificate issue?
Do you think Obama is going out of his way to make life miserable for you?  Do you honestly believe his agenda is to do damage to the United States?
What is your opinion regarding gitmo and the detainees there?
What are your feelings regarding the removal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy?
What are your feelings regarding the Pope's admiration and praise for Obama's Notre Dame address?
What do you think should be done regarding torture?  Do you believe police should employ these tactics as well?   School teachers? 
Why is the Republican party failing miserably to maintain their people?
What are your impressions of your party's leader, M. Steele?
Why is it that he is forced to take back nearly everything he says right after Rush Limbaugh speaks negatively about him?
Does Rush Limbaugh speak for you?
What about Michael Savage?  Great Britain has refused him entry because of his hate speak.
Why is it horrible for Hillary Clinton to cry but not so much when Glenn Beck and John Boehner  do this constantly.
Have you ever read the Treaty of Tripoli?

You have constantly called liberals stupid and idiots.  What do you feel this accomplishes?   Are you better than most people?  If so, how so?   What morals to you feel liberals lack?  What values?
What about "minority religions" in America?  Do these deserve as much attention as Christianity?  What about public schools- do you support these other than by your taxes?  Do you understand that most private schools are religion-based?  Why do Republicans constantly deny funds for public education and then complain that public schools are a failure?  

Honestly,  I am trying to understand your many fits here, Titus- but you will have to be more specific.

Show me your facts instead of your fears.

What I have seen, coming from you, Titus have not been answers to my questions- what I see are repetitions of complaints.
I am quite familiar with the constitution- which part offends you?
Which part is being taken from you?
What, specifically is being done?  By whom?  When did this happen?


I don't really care if you went online to get a degree in something- it does not give you license to just throw crap out there with no meaning or substance.  I don't get your offensive remarks regarding liberals.    What specifically has anyone  done?  What gives you license to call me anything at all? 
I know that you cannot possibly be calling Obama a liberal-nearly all major political writers of any note, Obama is seen as a centrist.  You, by your own admission, have said that Obama is continuing many of the Bush policies- what part of anything Bush ever did was "liberal"?  
What I see coming from you, Titus- is just a dislike for Obama and a bitterness that is eating you alive.  I don't see any justification for your frequent salty language or your constant complaints against people you don't even know.  Your assumptions about me are entirely off base- goodness knows how many others you have stabbed with your personal anger.

Do you want to have a conversation or do you just want to bitch people out?
If you think having a conversation can only exist with pre-conditions set by you- then you are best sitting in your basement talking to yourself . Nobody with an interest in discussion has any interest in your behavior as seen here.
I have better things to do than watch ignorant people do stupid things.

Squishy Bug, I don't want to have a conversation with you.  I am particular with who I conversate with!  BEAT IT FAGGOT!

I hope people like Bud Mullins aren't the majority in the military (if he even is in the military, or just a chickenhawk). As a "liberal" I will make it very clear to the right wingers.


I am currently employed, not on welfare.

I am not in the military (however, I still have the right to voice my opinion)
I am in the top 5% tax bracket; My family was upper middle class.
I fully support those in the military. I also believe that our most precious treasure - our young men and women who join the military are not disposable commodities. I do not agree with those who sent our men and women to Iraq, however, I don't blame the military - I put the blame on the administration who made those decisions - as I realize the military can only follow orders and not necessarily dictate them. Disagreeing with policy does not mean I hate the military: As Dr. Ron Paul said in the debates, those in the military are not policymakers".

I believe that EVERYONE should have the same opportunities I had to succeed and not based on which uterus they are lucky to be born in. A child who wants to be successful should not be held back bc his parents don't have the resources. I guess you would call that "socialism".

I believe the military should be well taken care of. Veterans should have their needs taken care of: salaries paid, pensions paid, benefits, etc. Not this BS Walter Reed mess. I am happy the GI bill was updated (brought by Jim Webb - a veteran who is a Democrat) and I don't mind my taxes being raised one bit to pay for it, or anything else for our servicemembers. It is UNACCEPTABLE in my eyes, for many veterans to be homeless - which is unfortunately a true fact today.
Patriotism means taking care of those who have sacrificed for you after they have served, not saying they're SOL and letting them straggle and then shouting that you support the troops when campaign season comes around. For politicians - you look at their voting record. It's very simple.


You can say as much as you want that liberals hate the military but it doesn't make it true. The voting records of conservatives are fully clear on how much they care for veterans. This is why in a ratio of 6:1, those who were deployed gave to Obama OVER McCain in the general election: http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/troops-...

Michael,  its refreshing in a sense to find a "liberal" that uses common sense and is willing to make a point in the way they believe.  Though I'm not a liberal in any sense I have no problem with having a worthwhile discussion where points can be made and countered productively.  And it is likely that most conservatives on this website feel the same way.  There are always a few that choose to go down the same road that most liberals that I have ran into choose to go down, and that is consistently bashing and being hateful instead of making a simple point. 

It is true that many in the military sided with Obama.  Although I was not one of them, in a sense I can understand why too.  Our alternative was seen as nothing more than another liberal in elephant clothing for comparison.  The problem I feel has befallen the republican party is they forgot most of their own values over the years, so no wonder there is no real alternative anymore.  Its all good to want to support the same "opportunity" to everyone in this country.  That is part of what made this country great.  Its the matter in which we get there that is the problem.  I agree, I would gladly pay a little more in taxes to support my fellow (yes, fellow) military (retired and otherwise).  I can see the neccessity for programs that help unemployed workers get back on their feet also.   What I cannot stomache is my leadership actively saying that everyone is "entitled" to exactly the same aspects of life that someone that worked hard to get where they are has.  I cannot accept my leadership bashing its own country making us look weak in the eyes of the world and apologizing for past "transgressions".  Todays liberals seem all to happy to jump on the band wagon demonizing there own country for what it has stood for for  over two hundred years.  If there is disagreement of how a past administration ran the country, get over it, make your changes and move on, dont be on the worlds media stage apologizing for things.  Our constitution was written the way it was for a reason.  States were given certain rights that the federal government was not.  Why?  In order to help ensure that the federal government could not grow too large and controlling.  The problem I have is our government wants to continue to grow larger and more controlling with every single new policy that comes to life.  It wants to spend more money than our own economy can handle.  It is willing to mortgage my future grandchildren's future to fulfill all of its liberal dreams.  All without seemingly paying heed to history.  Why is the US the most powerful country on earth?  Because of its foundation and because of its practices and laws and how very different it is (was) from the rest of the world...  Because for two hundred years Americans worked hard to get to where they are and suffered together when times were tough.  Slowly it seems the government is breaking down the walls that separate success from failure.  Corporations and banks are allowed to continue being failures with our tax money while the successful corporations and banks (yes, there were some) are practically punished for their successes.  That practice did begin with the last administration, hence the fact that the republican party lost its way too long ago... 

One last point on this novel.  Why has the republican party lost support?  Because they no longer hold the values they held when Reagan was in office.  He was the democrats hero as much as republicans.  Perhaps one of the most conservative men we've had in office.

wasnt my hereo, maybe those values are no longer relevent?.

Reagans values are no longer relevant?  Reagan's values held true to our founding fathers values quite well.  That is the whole point in the debates that are ongoing in this country...  Are you saying that our constitution was written with flawed values in mind by flawed individuals?

Here is my argument.  I've heard people argue that Thomas Jefferson was one of America’s founding liberals.  But in 1776, the word liberal simply meant one that was preservative of individual liberty.  Are today’s liberals preservative of an individuals' liberty?  Well, they do support a woman’s individual liberty to kill her unborn child, so maybe they are.  But on the same token they oppose a child’s individual liberty to Life itself.  According to our founding fathers and today's conservatives, this is a fundamental unalienable right of each and every American.  This is unequivocally established in our founding documents, but ignored by today's liberals (including many liberal Republicans).

If we can believe what today's liberal politicians say, we know that they believe in a good greater than the individual.  This is the greater good of the community or the country.  They don’t believe in an individual’s liberty or their individual pursuit of happiness.  They believe in the collective rights of our government on behalf of the greater good of the community.  They believe in redistributing success and happiness thanks to Obama-on-High.  That isn’t American.  Liberals today are not close to Jefferson liberals or Reagan democrats / republicans, but are closer to Marxist liberals.  They believe in the concept of “from each according to his ability; to each according to his need”.  By definition Marxism calls for a classless society where all means of production are commonly owned.  To be specific, today’s Liberals want to be generous with other people’s money to give to the rest.  This is one concept that all our founding fathers would be opposed to.  Who is the better hero here?  Jefferson / Reagan or Carl Marx?

No one here is using the term "liberal" correctly anyway. A liberal is someone who seeks to maximise the economic and individual liberties of a citizen. Now let's take that into terms of war. By fighting a war, we are taking away the liberties of the citizens of the country which we are attacking. So of course liberals are against war (and by extension the military, because it in practice takes these rights away); it limits the freedom of occupied people. Now I personally am against the military (all militaries, not just the American one, but I have an especially strong stance against the US military) because I'm against war and anyone who willingly fights in it, knowing that they may full well kill another human being. If freedom isn't free, per se, then why are we endowed with it intrinsically? The Declaration of Independence says that "are endowed by [our] Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." Is that definition not the same as freedom?

Professor Phil-So what about all of the wars that are fought to give liberty to an oppressed group of people?  Usually dictators don't just voluntarily give people liberty.  What if we never got involved in World War II? Were the Jews experiencing freedom?  How about the Rawandan genocide?  The world is an ugly place and any one who thinks we should get rid of the military is a fool.  By the way, we are aware of the classic definition of liberalism (and hate to tell you, but historically liberals understood that war was necessary to achieve freedom), but it is the people on the left who have adopted that name and attached it to any and all leftist causes.  Lastly, I have to ask.... Since you are so concerned with protecting every life, you are pro-life correct?

Professor Phil--I would like to add to Leslie's question.  You are anti-obamacare too, correct?  I'm sure you are since it would limit everyone's care and ration it for older folks.  I'm sure you have thought the whole plan through and agree that since obama can't control doctors as he thinks he can and doesn't have a way to bring millions of healthcare workers into the field on day one, his plan WILL fail.  Since people will die as a result of this plan, i'm sure you are against it!

Professor Phil--i think you are lying about your stance on war.  if you really feel this way, you would be willing to stop killing by going over to the countries that hate us and getting them to stop plotting against us!  obviously, you know more than anyone else and can stop people from wanting to attack our country!  talk is cheap and liberals are just talk!  if you feel strongly about it, fix it.

As much as I hate seeing people opressed, the fact of the matter is that there is NO legality in occupying a country regardless of their human rights unless that country has committed an attack on us. If we're so concerned about these people's freedom, why have we not attacked Iran, Belarus, North Korea, Burma, Saudi Arabita, etc? 


On health care, I do believe that the state should ensure (not give, but ensure) that all citizens have access to health care regardless of socioeconomic class or status. That doesn't mean a government-run system, but rather a group of private companies run with government oversight, having to meet certain guidelines to receive increased funding and a continued "monopoly" of sorts for their region of the country. Failure to meet such targets results in the effective loss of the monopoly and a new company.


I'm pro-choice. A fetus is not living, a fetus is not a citizen, a fetus is not a legal person. I don't want abortion to happen, but I realise that it is necessary to provide safe means for women to have them.

Hey Jack Ass, what country is the US occupying?  Numb nuts!

That was a message to Dr. Phil!

Phil--so what is your stance on late-term abortions when the mother's and baby's life is not in danger?  your buddy obama supports them.  a fetus has DNA and grows into a beautiful child.  I guess the "all men are created equal" line is ignored by liberals and selective births are acceptable?  how horrible!  so this goes back to what I said the other day:  liberals do not value human life.  by the way, your idea of healthcare and obama's is totally different so do you still support him?  as for war, we should have gone into Iraq when Hussein shot at our military hundreds and hundreds of times in the no-fly zone.  that was reason enough to get him!  unfortunately, that didn't happen!  it just made him more bold.  if you value life, then you would understand what self defense is and that our military had been in danger because of him during that time.

B2B--your comment:  Hey Jack Ass, what country is the US occupying?  Numb nuts!

I love it!  You have kept me in stitches lately!  I could not have said it better myself!  I don't have to worry about defending our positions while I'm gone.  You and DS will do a fine job!

i have a question for conservative. do you think the iraqi people are glad/happy or grateful for the war? D

Amber, who asked you?  Get your ass off this conservative site!  You show up every fuckin where I go!  Go join Dora you brainless bitch.  I'm sure you know where the rafter is she hangs from...

Back to Basics,  if you don't understand that we occupied Iraq- you need to open your eyes. 
Why you resorted to the homosexual name-calling in your post #95 is a mystery to me.  You have so many dark issues.  Have you considered checking yourself into a facility to have your head examined?


You have constantly called liberals stupid and idiots.  What do you feel this accomplishes?   Are you better than most people?  If so, how so?   What morals to you feel liberals lack?  What values?
If you are the party of such high morals and ethics and family values, how is it that your elected representatives seem to feel that rules only apply to other people?   Mark Sanford, John Ensign, David Vitter,  and Larry Craig just a few of your most recent fellow conservatives who preached "do as I say, not as I do".
 
They are, by no means, alone in the hypocrisy file:



January 23, 2007: Republican radio personality Scott Eller Cortelyou of Denver arrested on suspicion of using the Internet to lure a child into a sexual relationship

January 29, 2007: Republican former Jefferson County, Colorado, Treasurer Mark Paschall indicted on two felony charges "in connection with an allegation that Paschall solicited a kickback from a bonus he awarded one of his employees"

January 31, 2007: Republican Congressman Gary Miller is named by Republicans as ranking member of oversight subcommittee of House Financial Services Committee despite the FBI's investigation into his land deals




February 14, 2007: Major Republican fundraiser Brent Wilkes and former CIA executive director Kyle "Dusty" Foggo are indicted by a grandy jury for corrupting CIA contracts

February 16, 2007: Major Republican donor Abdul Tawala Ibn Ali Alishtari, aka Michael Mixon, is indicted in federal court on charges of providing material support to terrorists

March 5, 2007: Ethics complaint filed against Republican Senator Pete Domenici for his role in the Attorney Purge scandal

March 6, 2007: I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney found guilty of obstruction of justice and perjury

March 8, 2007: Republican former U.S. Congressman and Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich admits to extramarital affair

March 23, 2007: Former Deputy Interior Secretary J. Steven Griles, an oil and gas lobbyist who became an architect of George W. Bush's energy policies, pleads guilty to obstructing justice by lying to a Senate committee
 
March 27, 2007: Ronald Reagan's budget director, David Stockman, "indicted on charges of defrauding investors and banks of $1.6 billion while chairman of Collins & Aikman Corp., an auto parts maker that collapsed days after he quit"

March 28, 2007: Robert Vellanoweth, a Republican activist and appointee of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, is arrested on suspicion of gross vehicular manslaughter and felony driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, after a crash that killed three adults and one child

April 18, 2007: The FBI raids the home of Republican Congressman John Doolittle, investigating his ties to Jack Abramoff

April 19, 2007: The FBI raids a business tied to the family of Republican Congressman Rick Renzi, as part of an investigation into his business dealings

April 23, 2007: The FBI questions Republican Congressman Tom Feeney about his dealings with Jack Abramoff
 
April 23, 2007: Federal auditors find repeat violations of federal election law from the 2004 Senate campaign of Republican Senator Mel Martinez

April 26, 2007: David Huckabee, son of Republican Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, is arrested at an Arkansas airport after a federal X-ray technician detected a loaded gun in his carry-on luggage

May 4, 2007: Bruce Weyhrauch and Pete Kott, former Alaska state Republican legislators, were arrested and accused of soliciting and accepting bribes from the corrupt VECO Corporation

May 4, 2007: Republican state Assemblyman Michael Cole is censured and stripped of his leadership position after the married father of two spent the night at a 21-year-old intern's apartment

May 11, 2007: A field coordinator for Republican Congressman Patrick McHenry is indicted for voter fraud in North Carolina

Maybe you need to schedule that appointment soon, Back to Basics.  You have very serious issues that need attention.   FAST.

Squishy, nobody reads your shit either.  You go fuck a flying doughnut!

B2B--have you ever noticed that the nut jobs come to this site to discuss issues we have already addressed?  hmmmm!  i guess it proves they are idiots after all!  LOL!  the answers to their stupid comments are too simple to even talk about anymore.  they are nasty animals that aren't capable of using common sense, i.e, obama, pelosi, dodd, etc.  i won't speak for you but since i know you, i can say you are a true American in every regard!  as for me, i hold my morales, values and standards way above any liberal/democrats' any day of the week.  I know you are the same but figure you can speak for yourself!  ha!  any group of people who believes in killing babies has problems.  keep up the good work!

B2B - I asked you, its just a question,  so i will ask it again. Do you think the Iraqi people are grateful for the war/would they say it was it all worth it.

Squishy, people like you make me sick!  You run around on these web sites and spew your crap.  Never been in the military a day in your life, yet you want to run your mouth and tell people how screwed up our defense of freedom is.  Trying to talk like you are intelligent...  Your kind is worthless as whale shit to this society.  People like you should be dumped on a desert island with other freaks like you.  Go home, if you got one!

Amber, I don't know and I could care less! We've done our job...

amber--you are a moron!  i'll answer this question!  it depends on who you ask just like the idiots that voted for obama and the smart people who didn't--people are different!  however, the parents of girls who are in grade school would probably be very thankful that SOB and his sons are gone.  this is due to the fact that one of the sons would go to the schools and line the 12-13 year old girls up and pick which ones he was going to rape.  of course, he had his mob go into the parents' houses to grab these girls too.  now since their culture doesn't allow this, the girls were no longer welcomed back home so they ended up in the streets dead or as prostitutes.  oh yeah, i'll bet the girls appreciate the fact those devils are gone too!  amber--nothing you say on this site will help the liberal cause.  you are not capable of making a sound argument and you voted for the most corrupt person who has now brought in his mob friends to destroy this country!  the facts are there in your face!  oh by the way, where are the jobs and why is unemployment higher than your messiah said it would be?  where are the millions and millions of doctors and healthcare professionals that will be needed on day one of obamacare?  i know the answers to these questions, do you?  LOL!

Jackie, I wouldn't give Amber the time of day let alone answer one of her stupid questions.  But, I respect you for all you do including answering questions from pure idiots.  Those stupid ass people only show up on these sites to interrupt discussion.  Excuse me but FUCK EM!

B2B--yes, i humor them sometimes but shouldn't.  we are so beyond them so i should ignore all of their comments.

Jackie, I wouldn't try to debate an issue or argue a point with meat headed shit sacks like yourself.  I am just curious what and how you think.

Amber-  it's a waste of time expecting logic or answers from these two uninformed lumps of noise.   Look at the filth that they drool.   Neither of them can formulate a sentence without profanity -  more hypocrisy exhibited as they continue to clam the high road while pointing fingers and sneering at any who would dare question or disprove their ridiculous and unfounded statements.
They are not interested in truth, facts,  or even common decency.  Their lack of education,  intellectual curiosity, and humanity governs their every moment.  I have shown them over and over again items that they have placed here that were entirely out of context or  factually untrue. Their response?...call people names...anything filthy will do....  tell them to leave the country... told to get the hell off of "their" conservative website....this is America, and we are un-American for speaking yet in the same sentence claim that Obama is trying to "take away our rights"...!!  Does it matter that they wish we could all be silenced?  Nope.  Does it matter that they are considered "the lunatic fringe" of the far right wingnuts of the ultra-conservatives by over 80% of the nation?  Nope.  Does it matter that they lost the last two national elections exactly because of their extremist ideology?  Nope.
Bubbles and Jackie are red-state redneck trailer trash that don't know the difference between fact and fantasy.  They are utterly hopeless when it comes to a learning moment.
Take a look at Jackie-  constantly claiming to be edjukatid...uh huh...but too stupid to understand that as long as she continues to believe "humanbeing" is one word or that we lack "morales"... she proves my case every day.  Perhaps basket weaving is a little beyond her reach.
They are unable to learn.  That's just too much work.
Unable to research.  That's just too much work.  Unable to be civil.  That's just too much work.  Unable to understand the U.S. Constitution.  That's just too much work.  All of these require thinking.  That's just too much work.
 
Jackie makes claims that are so off-the-wall bat-shit crazy that it boggles the mind how one can be so proudly uninformed. Take for example her comments on the dimwitted idea someone in the pentagon had regarding the photos taken using Air Force One over New York City.  First- she blamed Obama for the event and terrorizing the people of Manhattan,  then she decided that he authorized the expenditure,  then she said "where are the photos we paid for!!!" ...well, dimwit Jackie,  aside from the fact that your statements regarding Obama's "role" in this were entirely false,  the photos are available here:
http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/newyorkcityflyover/Air_Force_One_flyover_photos.pdf
 
It doesn't take a lot of effort if one has any intellectual curiosity at all.
Sadly,  they will have none of this.
Like I said:  they are a waste of time.

Dora 123
Bubbles and Jackie are red-state redneck trailer trash that don't know the difference between fact and fantasy.  They are utterly hopeless when it comes to  a learning moment.

Whoa Dora!  You just included about half of this country in that one silly ass statement!  To include all my kin folk...  You don't even want to piss those people off.  I'm the nicer one of the crowd.  Most of them folk shoot first and ask questions later...  Won't see shit like you running around in our trailer parks.  I GUARANTEE IT!

Dora, you almost told us about your education again...  But that shines through when you tell us how stupid we are - go figure...  You might try using some of that intellect and find out which way the greyhound buses travel out of town.  Ha, Ha!

By the way, there are some new information you need to read on my web site, come on down, we'll treat you just like you need to be treated.

Dora--keep on throwing insults and i keep laughing!  by the way, i have more education than you do!  you are a true liberal who attacks people without any reason.  you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to supporting idiot obama so you resort to foolishness!  Amber is just another one of you and it is none of his business how we think!  you and amber are not on a high enough level to understand it anyway.  by the way a good economics books explains most of it.  the part that is left out, history will explain!  LOL!  how funny!  let's go back to elementary school!  you know 2+2=4 and obama's promise of 8.2% unemployment was never even possible.  it was very easy to see this during his campaign and after he was elected but lying is what obama does best!  we see where obama's polls are and what a fool he is making out of himself so keep it up.  you are laughable!  i guess your kind of people can't get out of the gutter long enough to pay attention to the truth so lying is more convenient!  you keep forgetting that obama is in charge so whatever happens during his administration, he is responsible for it including the flyby.  this is the same standard that the democrats/liberals set for Bush so I'm just following it.

Jackie, a fetus is not a living, breathing person. It is, for all intents and purposes, a parasite wholly dependent on the mother. It is therefore not equal to an adult. However, I only support third-trimester when the mother's life is in danger and I don't support Obama so stop assuming things (I supported Hillary for starters and I still hate the Democratic Party but not as much as I loathe the Republicans). By the first trimester the fetus does experience pain and may I also add that you had two trimesters to realise you were an unsuitable parent, the third's a bit ridiculous.

Phil, go away.  Go back to Berkeley with your comrades at Code Pink marching for peace. We loathe you, right about now.

UC--my sentiments exactly!  Glad to see you posting!  I won't comment further on Phil's post because it is too easy.

Here are a few reasons why we extreme liberals HATE the military:

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?These 20 year-olds who join the freaking military don't know what "fight for your country" even means! They don't even know what the constitution IS.FACE IT>> they join for free education and FREE housinga and FREE EVERYTHING. GET THE F%#$% OVER IT. They are too stupid to do anything else. Then they get called "heroes" for WHAT??? We don't even know them personally. How could all of the freaking idiots be heroes. DRUNKS?? maybe son comment here

Dana, serve a hitch and then we will listen to you bitch and moan! I was 17 when I went into the Army. My mom and dad signed for me to enlist. I thank God every day for that because if I had not of got that opportunity, chances are - I MIGHT HAVE TURNED OUT LIKE YOU. Now that would have been sad.

Dana -- that was a lame comment. At least put some thought into writing a comment. Copying and pasting from the Huff Post is not good practice. C'mon, you are better than that!

*Very liberal person here who just got a contact to do Special Ops in the Navy*
-Let this conversation return to the truth of liberalism. All I need do is quote John Stuart Mill (the founder of modern liberalism).

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

I'm not saying liberals are pro-war but historically we are not anti-military. We are against many of the reasons for modern war, that's all. To me the essence of liberalism is personal freedom, and I am more then willing to fight for it.

to stirlingsliver, and just what is the Military being used for? I am a Gunnery Sgt in the Marine Corps and have done 2 tours to Iraq. I agree with the article that those who hate the military never served, never tasted honor. You may not agree with this war, and that is your right. I dont agree with the left and how they are making decisions for myself and my brothers\sisters in arms fate when they have not served them selves. I feel that we can win this if the Generals and his staff are given the support he needs. Also I feel if we pull out too soon, then those that have given the ultimate sacrifice died for nothing.

To our politicians, I ask that you give your support to the troops that are providing the country with a service. Dont bind our hands from doing the job that the president and congress sent us to do. Dont make this another Vietnam, history already knows how that ended.

Thanks Gunny, first for your service and for your comment. I am a 7 year vet of the Old Army. Nevertheless, I AM A VET! I willingly served for a purpose. To protect my homeland and it's entire contents.

I hate war! I'm sure you do to. I hate war even more if it is for the wrong reason! The war we are fighting right now is for the RIGHT REASONS. On 9-11, our country was attacked. Not to mention the many other times our uniformed men/women and resources were attacked and destroyed around the globe. Not just by anyone! But, by RADICAL ISLAM who believe we all supposed to be dead for them to exist. This is not a game. THIS IS REAL WAR!

I am now a senior citizen of this great country, and my being able to live to be a senior citizen is a direct result of the hundreds of thousands of men and women in our armed forces who are willing to stand up and protect us from the evils of the world. I would proudly stand up beside my military brothers and sisters and die for our country today.

Thank all of them.

OOH Ra AckAck!!!

An Open Letter To Jackie M,

Dear Jackie,

i cannot post this in the "che guevara t-shirt contraversy" blog. it seems i am being shut out to voice my opinion, so i will post this here, and leave the urban conservative blogm but i did not want to leave withough saying good bye and to say thanks for the learning experience.

following from our last thread on http://www.urbanconservative.com/2007/06/05/fri... ...



So you think i am a liberal because "all conservatives didn't agree on everything bush did" and i "threw his name around"? well, i think that on the surface, our problem here begins with the differences in opinion as to the definitions of conservative and liberal. but on the deeper level, like i had mentioned earlier, there is also the issue of throwing names around, and how you reduced me to one word, "liberal". and yeah, i'm just as upset with obama as many other people, and he is NOT the first politician to not come through on his promises...and sadly he probably won't be the last. it's just business as usual in a greed-driven society.

(and by the way, it might help your case if you don't say SOB in your argument)

as to the "business and economics", that is a whole other discussion, and let's face it, the economic system which is widening the gap between rich and poor is currently based on lies and trickery (for example economic hit-men who literally LIE to developing countries to get them on board with economic projects and then leave the country worse off; or the IMF and world bank which basically enslave developing nations by enforcing outrageous rules and regultions), so please, don't talk about "simple economics and business" because they are currently designed for profit, NOT to help people.

you speak of "principals", and i totally agree. all we have are our principals, which should be (in my humble opinion) grounded in COMPASSION . that's all i am saying on that, because i could go on a very large tangent about the importance and meaning of Compassion for All Living Beings.


i think you may be a little misinformed, because a lot of other media outlets (such as Democracy Now and indymedia.org to name just a couple) actually report the news unbiasedly, while a lot of "conservative" and "liberal" outlets don't even discuss news, instead it becomes what it going on here: a series of back and forth arguments. i suggest you check out some unbiased journalism before glorifying republicans as the ones who "expose the backroom deals and bribes". and if they are "the ones to ensure the ameican people understood what may be getting in this healthcare plan" then why was the single payer option so largely spun around into something it wasn't?

please read the facts from ORIGINAL SOURCES or news outlets which report unbiasedly, friend, not what republicans tell you.


and again "obama looks like a pansy to those who want to kill us"... i don't want to question your maturity, but leave out the name calling if you want people to take you seriously.


i don't like what obama is doing, he TOTALLY turned the Copenhagen Summit into a big business deal (as many republicans often have done as well) and this whole iraq/afghanistan thing is a huge mess! i personally wouldn't want to be in his shoes, and he is facing difficult decisions, but i agree, he's not handling this very well.


i feel sorry that you cannot see the other sides perspective in any light, and i am sorry that "it doesn't make sense to you", maybe if you learn to open your mind a little bit more you will be able to at least understand another person's side. you don't have to agree, but understanding and respect are the first step toward bridging communication. with that being said, i don't think i can continue this dialog with you, but i will state, once again, that it is pretty dangerous to box people into "you're a liberal!" or "you're a conservative" and to assume that you already know how the other person thinks, or to throw your own firm beliefs down on the table, unwilling to have them budge or change. i think too many people are afraid to allow their minds and beliefs to move with Change, i cannnot say this about you because i don't know you, but just in general.


this life is ALWAYS changing, nothing is concrete, not even beliefs. that is one of the importances of developing an open mind which can change with the times, and not to box yourself into a concrete mindframe. i am not trying to get you to vote liberal, or democrat, or green, or independent, or whatever... i'm trying to help show you that you don't have to have this left vs. right, black and white mentality. life is WAY to complex, with a wide gradient of grey, to box answers into 2 solutions. sometimes it takes a lot of communication and compromise to arrive at solutions to problems, which honestly cannot be solved by one part, or two parties..because let's face it, america has many different people with many different beliefs and many different problems.


i have enjoyed this dialog with you, and want to say that i have learned from this experience, i have grown and my worldview had shifted. i hope you find happiness in your days and can spread joy to everyone you encounter.


peace and blessings,

jesus christ

your name speaks for itself and trying to put yourself anywhere close to the name is sickening and tells me you have a problem. obviously, you don't understand economics or business. if the government would stay out of the way and only pass limited laws, it would work. as for business in foreign countries, the people of that country and their elected officials are responsible for that. we can't save every country from their problems. thanks to obama people don't even have jobs in our country. i do have a clear view of what is going on unfortunately and it is obvious that you don't. i don't know how it can be much clearer when the republicans hold news conferences explaining that they have been locked out of negiotiations but would like to be included. they have also sent obama letters and emails trying to meet with him and get him to uphold his promise of listening to all sides and this has failed. my descriptions that you find troubling are on point and are the truth. it is troubling that some in this country refuse to tell the truth. you pointed out an exact problem in this country--THERE IS DEFINITELY BLACK AND WHITE solutions to problems in this country. however, there are folks on both sides who want to make the problems more complex than they really are. since the left is in charge and vowed to stop business as usual, i hold them accountable. i do have an open mind on a lot of things but will not change my view on traditional values thank you! Change is good for some things but not others, especially when change begins to destroy the core of who we are as people and what our country was founded on, i.e, i saw the change in students after prayer was taken out of the schools. While I don't pretend to be an expert in history, I am finding that it is being completely ignored by a lot of folks now and that is a huge mistake.