He said: I don’t want to sound like an ad, a public service ad on TV, but the fact is if you can read, you can walk into a job later on. If you don’t, then you’ve got, the Army, Iraq, I don’t know, something like that. It’s, it’s not as bright. So, that’s my little commercial for that.”
It’s a week old but I have to chime in. As a Marine, I am extremely offended. I know he was talking about the Army, but hey, they’re my brothers too. Yeah, I was just out of high school when I enlisted but I served with some really smart people, officers and enlisted. But it was the Military that paid for my entire undergrad degree. And, his comments just display the ongoing ignorance of the liberals in Hollywood. And even if he isn’t in Hollywood, he is still a lib. They have so much money and spend so much time living in their fantasy worlds, that it makes them so out of touch with reality. Poor liberal scum is all I have to say right about now. He is trying to defend his comments. Pssst.
I’m glad to see that the Army is speaking up about this issue.
Tags: stephen king comments about the army, military, jobs, can’t read, iraq, army responds
In an effort to avoid derogatory terms and keep it civilized I just want to add, that Liberals are simply ignorant and out of touch with reality. I'm not sure, perhaps I am being too kind.
I’m no former marine or even a citizen of your great nation yet even I, found his remarks offensive and provocative.
It’s part of the left’s emotional innuendo, people like King namely Liberals, do not understand America, nor the military. They will go out of their silly ways to disseminate rubbish such as, only poor uneducated types enlist or that volunteer forces do not really volunteer etc. Because they fail to grasp the greatness of their nation, they cannot come to grips with that which compels some to risk their very lives to protect the nation and all the latter represents…
The United States of America has the greatest military ever constructed. It is populated with truly smart people but that does not change the fact that our military is being damaged by this administrations policies. Two weeks ago I was sitting in the airport, waiting for my delayed flight, with four new recruits who were flying off to basic. They all seemed to be nice enough but none of them had high school diplomas. They each had been assisted in getting their GED by the recruiter. Not that that is bad in and of itself, but seemed endemic of the problem. The military has lowered its standards of who it will let in. When there is a problem with our government it is our patriotic duty to call it out. It is only cowards who ignore the problems. Patriots want us to have the strongest and best military and do not ignore the problems. In the last few years several generals have resigned their commissions over the mismanagement of the military and war. We all need to fight for the best military, not make excuses and condemn critics.
It is wrong to classify everyone in the military in the way Stephen King has done. There are quite a few intelligent people in the military. Serving in the military has a lot of benefits, such as furthered education and learning discipline, along with the pride gained from serving and protecting your country.
I do believe that recruiters will do just about anything to get young people to enlist, but that is not entirely their fault. Although re-enlistment has been increasing each year, the military branches are having a difficult time fielding new, quality recruits. Yes, there are those cases such as what James is talking about where a recruiter helps new recruits get a GED so they can sign up, but what is the alternative?
The military is a good choice for many young Americans. The sign-up incentives are getting better and better, they will pay for you to get your degree, and it keeps kids out of gangs, off of the streets, away from selling drugs, and many other worse alternatives. I doubt anyone is enlisting at this point with the idea they have no chance of going to Iraq, so if someone wants to sign up for the available benefits and in the process have to go to Iraq or any of the other possible war zones, let them do it. Also, there are many people in the military that want to serve, regardless of their intelligence. There are many smart people that have made that personal choice for many reasons, so, people like Stephen King who stereotype something like military enlistment need to examine all sides of the argument before making such ignorant claims.
I hate when people make broad sweeping generalizations, like what King said about the military but then someone says this about liberals....
"Liberals are simply ignorant and out of touch with reality."
Completely disagree of what King said based on the fact that it was such a broad generalization.
Good grief... Now along with my former favorite musician (Bruce Springsteen) I have to reconsider my former favorite writer (Stephen King).
Oh well, he was never the same since his accident and I've been less pleased with his latest works.
I guess in addition to "Shut up and sing" I'm going to have to add "Shut up and write" to my repertoire.
-Anthony
@UC,
I understand your offense to the comments made, but if you really are the patriotic American you say you are and care about the military so much, I'd like to see you write an article attacking conservatives and liberals alike for their inaction on the problems soldiers face when they return home.
For example -
- Terrible Care at Walter Reed
- The incredible number of soldiers with PTSD or other mental health problems (over 30%)
- The fact that post war suicides may soon eclipse combat death.
Supporting our troops is more than just saying "go get 'em boys!" I'd like to see you lash out at Washington, because they have done a really shitty job of supporting the troops, and I'd like to see you not just use your classic technique of the Liberal Scapegoat because its all politicians. So actually address a real problem, rather than one guy saying something.
You know what UC? I think YOU represent the conservatives in.......... Mongolia! And even if you aren't in Mongolia, you're still a conservative! There, I said it.
While I don't agree with Mr. King's allegation about everyone in the military being unintelligent, I don't disagree that the general trend of the military's acceptance rate is one without much education. The reading level USED to be 6th grade. It has since dropped. The military is also now accepting felons, after how many years of strict anti-felon policy? Couple hundred only? Let's face it, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel, here. The administration is doing anything it possibly can to get people to join the army. Soon, we'll be granting death row the opportunity to come fight for us in exchange for their freedom into society. I am not questioning our military's courage, or bravery, or sense of honor. But the fact of the matter remains that the intellectual requirements for joining are getting lower and lower. King may have generalized and said it wrong, but the underlying message the military is displaying certainly isn't a positive one.
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@Heathenhater @OhHolyKnight
Your rhetoric is tiresome. Of course, I don’t like the way troops aren’t well taken care of when they arrive home from combat. I will address this very issues in a future post.
Mongolia? I don’t get it. I think I speak for more conservatives than you think. I am just not afraid of speaking my mind.
Also ... I have proof that you two are the actually the same person. Not only did both of your comments come within 5 minutes of each other; but ……
YOU HAVE THE SAME IP ADDRESS
Heathenhater (216.56.9.194 , 216.56.9.194)
OhHolyKnight (216.56.9.194 , 216.56.9.194)
Let’s see, somewhere in the Midwest … thinking Brett Favre! What a great player he is/was!
Be real dude. Multiple personas are early signs of MPD – Multiple Personality Disorder.
I guess I'll be the one playing devil's advocate here, but where does he say that everyone in the military is stupid? To say that joining the military is the only option left for uneducated people doesn't mean that there aren't also intelligent people that are enlisted by choice.
It just means that if you aren't careful you won't really have a choice, and I for one would prefer that our armed forces be comprised of those who are doing it because they WANT TO (like UrbCon) and not because they feel like they HAVE TO.
Just re-watched his statement, and sure enough ... he doesn't say that some, most, or all of enlisted people are stupid. Just that if you don't prepare yourself in life, you won't be giving yourself the same kind of choice in the matter.
That being said, and knowing how quickly people on both sides like to jump to conclusions and infer offensive statements ... he should probably have been a little more careful about how he tries to convey his concerns.
-SubMod
I remain amazed that any of us commoners ever vote for Democrats. The elitism oozing from many if not most liberal leaders, in and out of government, goes against the egalitarian and individualistic traditions America was founded on. We shouldn't be surprised that, once in office, these know-it-alls attempt to reshape the nation in their image. Republicans have their flaws, but Democrats -- speaking of political leaders now -- are simply repulsive. Clearly, the booze has gotten to Mr. King.
Okay, we are at the same school, on the same network. How many times need we tell you that. Now I am posting from home, and as you will see, a different IP. I'm sure we will never convince you. And his point about mongolia is as follows.
And, his comments just display the ongoing ignorance of the liberals in Hollywood. And even if he isn’t in Hollywood, he is still a lib.
His comment was mocking that.
And good for you, but dont be so quick to take credit. These problems have been around for how long? a while now, and you are soon going to post? yet when STEPHEN KING says something, you apologize for it being a week old......
how does that work? And if you support the troops and the military, i suggest you look at the comments on the murtha article on the surge, and look at my reply.
Finally, being a douschebag is an early sign of.......wait, maybe your just a douschebag.
H
UC,
We have a problem here. Either a school librarian and a tech. staff member is lying to me or you are lying to all three of us. You say that OHK and HH have the same IP address, but my faculty members told me that each computer even if it is on the same server will have a different IP address.
Now either you are lying or they are lying. You say that OHK and HH have the same IP address, well maybe that is because you are taking their IP addresses from different days and different posts because we are usually not on the same computer two days in a row and sometimes we even flip- flop computers on different days.
Let me spell it out for you easier.
Lets say that Monday OHK is on computer A, HH is on B, and I (HZ) am on C. Then Tuesday OHK is on computer B, HH is on A, and I (HZ) am on P. (They always sit next to each other, I rarely sit next to them.) Then on Wednesday OHK is on F, HH is on G and I am on A. Now continue that trend since we began coming to your website lets say 2.0 months ago.
SO it is easy to see that we are on the same computer on different days which could register the same IP address.
Now for the curve ball.... ready?
All three of us have at various times posted at home. And I have posted from a different friends house.
And since you are so keen on sports allusions (i.e. Brett Favre), ready for the knuckleball?
Look at our grammar, styles, and different viewpoints. The way we write, the things we say proves that we must be different people. HH and OHK are more liberal than I am. OHK hates religion, I am Presbyterian. It is easy to see.
§
@HeyZues
I didn't realize that the three of you know each other. Well, I have no reason to lie about this. My point is that if the three of you are the same person, how can any of us take you seriously. I guess we will never know for sure.
Your reasoning is definitely something to think about; but studies do show that those with MPD can act/behave/write etc. like truly different people.
Oh, and a more appropriate sports analogy for Brett Favre would be "ready for the long bomb?"
The IP Address that i used came from comments posted on the same day, within 5 minutes of each other.
UC
So instead of listening to our points, you would simply rather ignore them and use a lame ass excuse that all 3 of us are the same people.
Claiming to use logic, you should see that it would be much more logical that we all come into class at the same time, get onto our computers at about the same time and then all come onto this site at about the same time, read the same posts, maybe talk to each other about them maybe not and then write our posts.
Also if there only was one of us with 3 different personalities wouldnt you think it more likely that HZ, OHK, and HH would not be on this site posting? Wouldnt it be more likely that we would be with a psychologist or something else?
So I understand that it looks strange that we all post at about the same time from 2 feet apart from each other, but use some logic, dont just cast aside our points... I am sure you wouldnt if we were conservative.
§
UC,
Honestly, you're skirting around the issue. We are not one in the same--only a cornered ignoramus would suggest so. In fact, I could make some crazy claims of my own that you and every conservative on this site are all the same person! And that every conservative in the world is the same person! So no conservative argument is valid, because... multiple personae suggest it?
Okay, first of all, my three personalities (oops! I slipped up!) are all presenting logical arguments. And you are refusing to think about them simply because they appear to all be coming from the same person. That doesn't make sense, U-Con! Why does it even matter if we are all the same? Does that really invalidate the statistics, arguments, sources and logic we present? The FACTS we present? No! It doesn't! We aren't the same, but even if you can't get it through your head that we are three high schoolers who have the same class right now in the same lab of computers (at the same school), then fine. Don't believe us. But that absolutely does not prove our arguments faulty. That is typical stubborn mentality, not trusting facts because they are presented by someone you don't like or agree with.
Second, no matter where and when the three of us post, you will always accuse us of being the same. We try posting at exactly the same time, you say we're opening two windows and writing the comments simultaneously (which by the way would not be typical of someone with multiple personalities, since someone with such a syndrome would BELIEVE he is that one person at that time, and he wouldn't try to convince anyone that he is someone else, not to mention that he couldn't possibly switch back and forth between those personalities so extremely and rapidly). If we post hours apart from our houses or elsewhere, you accuse us of posting once and then waiting and posting again. No matter what we say, you will accuse us of being multiple personalities within the same mind. That's foolish. A more logical explanation is that we're a trio of punk kids who hate society and want to dismantle the conservative platform through sarcasm and ire.
Our military's reading level is still less than 6th grade. Explain that. Go.
†
Ignorance. This attitude comes from a profound ignorance. Likely he doesn't know anyone in the military personally just as those who trash this country have never spent a significant amount of time anywhere else. This is the finest country in the world and the people in our military are on balance some of the finest people one could ever meet. People in the public eye should reserve their opinions for issues they actually know something about.
Love your blog.
Nora,
You are the ignorant one. We HAD freedoms. We USED to be a beacon of light for aspiring nations. Tell me one nation in the world right now that wants to be like the United States. Thanks to our situation in Iraq, the world--no, not just Iraq--hates our guts. Thanks to Bush and his crackpot administration, we have completely and utterly lost track of what our nation was founded upon. We are a fascist state, nora. The United States, with its "President" GWB at the helm, has become a fascist state. If you're into that sorta thing, then yeah, I guess this would be the "finest country in the world," sort of like how Germany would have been the finest country in 1939.
I have been out of the country plenty, nora. I've been to England, France, Germany, Poland, Italy, the Czech Republic, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Greenland, Mexico, Costa Rica, Belize, Jamaica, the Dominican Republic, and others. I have not yet been to Africa, and I have yet to visit Asia, but I have certainly been outsider of the United States sufficiently to know no one likes us, and I don't like what we're becoming (slash have become) either. It's a joke, now. This is not a democracy. You like getting your freedoms and your rights ripped away from you in the name of destroying a centuries-old civilization, people and culture that desires nothing more than its freedom from occupancy? How would you feel if the United Sates were occupied by some foreign force? Would you like it? Or would you advocate freedom, and maybe even fight for it? Take up arms? Blow up a car, or a building? I would do every one of those things if my country were occupied. But guess what. We are occupying Iraq. And guess what else! They are fighting back!
What exactly do you love so much about the United States right now? The fact that we're a Christian nation, and as long as you practice Christianity, you are guaranteed to be accepted in society? I love that too. It warms me up inside.
And for the record, I have wholeheartedly considered moving to Costa Rica. I consider it a better country than this. I stay here, for now, for school, and in the hopes that the country will have the sense enough to elect Obama and we can get some change around here. We'll see.
†
I am the ignorant one? Please tell me what freedoms you have had taken away? How are we a fascist state? You clearly have no idea what a fascist state really is. So no one likes us? Fine. They still want to live here, like you. Please go live somewhere else, you will be miserable. I have lived in Mexico and Costa Rica. Traveled extensively through Fiji, the poor islands not resorts, Europe and Latin America.Good luck going to school there. And making a living? Forget it. Unlike this fine country you like to bash while simultaneously reaping the benefits of, they will not allow you to work there without jumping through hoop after hoop and even then, good luck. People like you are such hypocrites. For the record it is not that this country is Christian that I like. I am not Christian. What I like is that people like you have the freedom to state your anti-American views and not be jailed, that without an education and being illiterate, people can make a living here when they can't in their own countries, and that we give more money than ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD to help others. If this is such a terrible place, go. You can make space for people who will appreciate the benefits and opportunities here rather than just be a parasite. Have a nice day.
First off I would like to state the following: I am a Vietnam Veteran. Second, I am Retired from the United States Army, having served for 42+ years. I have a Degree in Criminal Justice. Third, I voted a streight Democratic Ticket from the time I turned 21 until August 1992 when I became a registered Republican. Am I a neocon, no, will I ever vote for another Democrat HELL NO. I know many fine upstanding Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airman, and members of the US Coast Guard enlisted and officer who hold Baccalurate Degress, Master Degrees and PhD's. I also know a few Truck Drivers who also have PhD's, and others with Master Degrees. A pesons choice to either serve his Nation as a Member of the Armed Forces of the United States of America, is just that a Personal Choice, and for anyone to denigrate them for making that choice just shows tha they do not comprehend the hardships impossed on those who have choosen to serve in the Armed Forces. Those of us who choose to make a career of service to the United States, by defending this nation of ours know and understand something that people like Stephen King do not, THAT FREEDOM IS NOT FREE THE COST OF FREEDOM IN THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN BOUGHT AND PAID FOR WITH THE BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE BLED AND DIED TO PRESERVE THIS NATION, OUR FREEDOMS AND WAY OF LIE. I and my family have lost many members who paid the ultimate sacrifice to give freedom to those who take it for granted. I have lost a cousin in Iraq who was disarming an Improvied Explosive Device at the gate of a School, I also lost an adopted son in Afghanistan. They were not drafted, they volunteered to serve, and they full well knew the inharent dangers of being in the US Military, as did I, and as does my blood Son who is serving even now as we speak, and who came home from Iraq this past January. Those who have tasted the whip of dictatorships and seen family members murdered by those selfsame dictators not only seek our help, but have often begged for it in vain depending on the make-up of Congress, and the Democrat in the White House. Those who will accept and demand Peace at any price do so and aid in the forgeing of the chains of slavery that will be bound to their ankles by those who they seek peace at any price from. I well remember the Marches in our nations capital of the 1950's by the Socialist/Progressive/Liberals shouting "Better Red than Dead." These are the same people who would rather crawl on their knees than Die on their feet, and in my view are a disgrace to the very principals this nation was founded on. One more point: THIS NATION IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, UNDER ARTICLE 4, SECTION 4 OF THE CONSTITUTION WE ARE IN FACT A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. Those who claim that we are a democracy need to heed the words of Thomas Jefferson who said: "A DEMOCRACY IS MOB RULE, WHERE FIFTY-ONE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE CAN TAKE AWAY THE RIGHTS OF THE OTHER FOURTY-NINE PERCENT." We have never been a democracy, thank God for that.
Sarge, I respect that you served, and I am aware that freedom is not and has never been free. But I cannot sit back and watch as this nation shits on itself and then cries when it starts smelling. The conflicts in which we are engaged in the Middle East are illegal, illegal, ILLEGAL. There was a moment in history in which the entire world was behind us: 9/11. Even the Middle East hosted a candlelight vigil in honor of those we had lost in 9/11. Within 1 day, we were already contemplating as preemptive strike on IRAQ, the country that had NOTHING at all to do with the bombing. We lost control. The Bush Doctrine is and has been the absolute bane of America as both a superpower and a beacon of light for future democracies. Two hundreds years we lasted without succumbing to corruption and greed. Two hundred years is nothing. All we've proven is that democracy-- oh, sorry, "republics"--can't work. At least not right now, not with us. And that's so very comforting.
nora, holy shit, pay attention, both to me and to the world. I'll get back to fascism, but as for Costa Rica and those other places you have visited, wake up. You told you--you flat out ADMITTED--that you toured the impoverished places. Why the hell would I go live in poverty by choice? If I have the money, the means, the ability, I like any other person in the world, would live as luxurious as I could. In fact, I have been to Costa Rica, and I have lived a very nice, modest life in a beautiful country, and my experiences there witnessed both poverty and affluence, though NEITHER pertained to my specific experience. Every country in the world has poverty, nora. I'm not ignorant. That's not my point. My point is a country like Costa Rica is on the up and coming, and I would not be jailed for voicing my opinion unless the rule became corrupt (ahem, *America*). I also said I wouldn't go until after school, which proves I am not ignorant of what America has given me. It would be post-retirement, and the only job I would need is a dinky little do-nothing, relax job. Surf shack comes to mind. What about this is so unattainable? You think America is the only country that lets you set up your own dive shop? In fact, mom and pop stores are on the outs in America, so it's getting less and less likely that you CAN do that here.
Back to fascism. Let me spell it out for you. (Thanks in advance to HeathenHater for pointing this out to me so clearly) 14 points of fascism are as follows: powerful and continuing nationalism, disdain for recognition of human rights, identification of enemies as scapegoats, supremacy of the military, rampant sexism, control of the media, obsession with national security, intertwined religion and government, protected corporate power, suppressed labor power, disdain for intellectuals and the arts, obsession with crime and punishment, rampant cronyism and corruption, and fraudulent elections. 14 points, nora. Plain and simple. Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco, all fascist governments, can tell you that they all contained all 14 of those points. Now do you want me to spell out for you how George W Bush has exercised each and every one of those points personally? How our rights as United States civilians and citizens have been repeatedly and blatantly violated? Now tell me again how we're not a fascist state, nora. I'm dying to know.
†
It seems tat I struck a sore point with someone, which is my intent. If the US is so hated, and dispised, kindly explain why there are long lines of people beging to come to the US to live, why we have 20 milion +/- Criminal Immigrents in the United States, and more trying to get in every day. Why is that. Can you explain away those facts, I seriously doubt it. The State Department has a 15 year long waiting list of people wanting to come to the US and become useful productive American Citizens. But in you neo-socialistic mindset you do not see that. Only what you Professor has told you. I normally do not respond to Liberals, I make an exeption just once in your case.
It seems that I struck a sore point with someone, which is my intent. If the US is so hated, and dispised, kindly explain why there are long lines of people beging to come to the US to live, why we have 20 milion +/- Criminal Immigrents in the United States, and more trying to get in every day. Why is that. Can you explain away those facts, I seriously doubt it. The State Department has a 15 year long waiting list of people wanting to come to the US and become useful productive American Citizens. But in you neo-socialistic mindset you do not see that. Only what you Professor has told you. I normally do not respond to Liberals, I make an exeption just once in your case.
Dear Sarge,
First, I want to thank you for your service. I, too, share your outlook. The rabid socialist, OhHolyKnight is typical of libs. He can't name a right he has had taken away just as he somehow thinks he will be jailed(!) for speaking out in this country. What a load! Look at Code Pink and all of the idiots who defame the President and this magnificent country.
There is no other country on earth that is as welcoming to foreigners and has the opportunities or is as generous to everyone and anyone. Ironic that it is the most religious in this country who are most generous while the libs benefit from this country while expecting the government to do the heavy lifting. The hypocrisy on the left is astounding. Obama decries SUV's. If they are so evil, why is he still riding in them-EVERY DAY!
You are correct, people risk their lives, pay every cent they have, leave their families for the opportunity to live HERE. Poor libs, have NO earthly idea, how lucky they are. They are like little children.
oooh sarge is a big boy. He normally doesnt even respond to liberals. I guess thats what they teach you in the military, closed mindedness. Actually, no they dont, because I know some soldiers who are open-minded. Maybe sarge is just a pathetic little 3 year old.
And nora..... what rights have we had taken away. Under the conservative thought process The bill of rights takes away a ton of rights.
We must not look at it as what rights does the government give us, we must instead see it as what rights has the government taken away.
Heathenhater,
Be honest, it is the liberals who are closed minded. They are the ones shouting down speakers at colleges they don't agree with. Free speech only exists, as far as libs are concerned, to allow them to spew half-witted vitriol. Conservatives don't do that. They actually engage in issues and ideas not hurl insults.They are the ones who listen to the other side as it is decidedly more main stream.
As for the idea that our rights have been compromised; how have your PERSONALLY been so? It is the conservatives who are most intent on keeping our rights; it is the left who want to tell us what to say, where to smoke, who we can hire and fire, what propaganda to teach in public schools and who can own guns.
That you would call a man who served his country a pathetic little three year old is representative of just how elevated and wise you are. You represent your side prefectly.
Have a nice day,
God damn it, nora. You didn't read my post, did you? Let me spell it out for you: F-A-S-C-S-I-S-M.
Allow me to explain.
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist rulers make constant use of "patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia" and especially the flag. How many times have you heard that Obama is a terrorist Muslim because he doesn't wear a flag on his lapel?
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Gitmo, Abu Ghraib. Bush signed a law that essentially makes us a police state. It would get rid of habeas corpus, allow hearsay evidence, and allow the President to determine what is allowable torture. So long Geneva Conventions, we're America, we're better than those stupid agreements. Good thing we signed 'em then.
Identification of Enemies as Scapegoats:
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37099 Muslim 'enemy among us.'
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/28/85410/0152 NeoMcCarthyism, muzzling liberals.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/20/gallagher-damon-olbermann/ Put liberals in concentration camps.
Nice.
Supremacy of the Military: "Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Support the troops! Bush says support the troops! (Oh, by the way, Bush vetoed a bill--the first president ever to veto such a bill--that would have provided money to returning soldiers and their families. But support the troops! If you don't, you're a terrorist!)
Rampant Sexism: Almost exclusively male-dominated governments. Opposition to the following are high in fascist regimes: abortion, gay marriage, and homosexuals in general. Bush called for a Constitutional ban on same-sex marriage.
Controlled Mass Media: Whether directly or indirectly, the government will control the media through censorship and sympathetic spokesmen in fascist states.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/05/fbi_acknowledge.html FBI acknowledges that journalists' phones are fair game.
Obsession with National Security: Bush aides have admitted to stroking fear as a political tool to gain support. Just look at our terror alert level. Still orange.
Religion and Government are Intertwined: " Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion." Congressman Walter Jones, from North Carolina, supports a bill that would make it legal to preach politics in Church. Bush himself opposes gay marriage, and supports a Constitutional ban on it, for religious reasons: "Marriage cannot be severed from its cultural, religious and natural roots without weakening the good influence of society." ~GWB.
Corporate Power is Protected: http://oldamericancentury.org/9_corp.htm
Labor Power is Suppressed: Bush vowed to veto an anti-terror bill if it would allow airport workers to unionize. Bush also attacked organized labor by issuing orders effectively reducing how much money unions can spend for political activities and opening up government contracts to non-union bidding.
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts:
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,11710,1150285,00.html Artists from all over the world are being refused entry into the United States.
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/2204/ The ruling allows censorship of campus publications.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment: " Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations."
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_12/007745.php Yes, it's true, we have SECRET LAWS.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/05/16/062/97281 Snitch-or-Go-to-Jail bill will make pretty much anything short of reporting on everyone you see for doing just about anything a jailable offense. With minimum sentences, up to and including life without parole.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/004951.php This is a pretty good list of the "Scandalized Administration Officials."
Fraudulent Elections: As with Hitler, as with Mussolini, and as with Franco, elections aren't always "fair" in fascist regimes such as the United States.
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529No Powerful Government Accounting Office report confirms key 2004 stolen election findings
2004 Ohio, Republican Party paying off a group of people to keep Democrats from voting, secret rigging of voting machines, you name it! We've got it all!
Happy nora? 14 POINTS OF FUCKING FASCISM!
God bless America.
†
Thanks for conceding, Nora.
†
OhHolySimpleton,
I did not concede a thing. I just find it useless to debate anything with someone who is so entrenched in leftist propaganda that he can't use logic. Instead of answer a question like what rights have YOU had taken away, you site propaganda and websites and answer, 'a ton of rights.' Please. You don't really know anything or use reason, you are a cool aid drinker who lacks the gray matter to do any real thinking for himself.
You don't answer about the lack of freedom of speech from the left at universities, either. Lefties, and I was one in my unenlightened younger days, use insults instead of reason. It's like engaging a toddler in a debate. Pointless.
oh nora, lefties use insults instead of reason huh?
"It's like engaging a toddler in a debate. " NICE no insult there.
And rights I have personally had taken away? You want a straight answer?
How about the right to protest where I want to? In recent years, "free speech zones" have limited where individuals could protest against the government. I want my freedom of speech!
And I am sorry, but although the patriot act is only for "suspected terrorists," it leaves so much room to be screwed in the future. So screw off nora. My economic rights are taken away too. So FUCK YOU. You piss me off. How do people in AFRICA affect you????????? WELL IF THEY DONT AFFECT YOU WHY SHOULD WE HELP THEM?????
WAY TO BE A SELFISH BITCH NORA
@ OHS (in deference to Nora)
If Nora had called you a "toddler" right from the get go, you would have some justifiable recourse in calling her out on the carpet. However, after reading your posts of sweeping generalities and cross assimilations, she has correctly found you out. Nora doesn't say of course that you are a toddler. Just that you argue like one.
By the way, HATS OFF to George W. Bush on Africa. Well done sir. Your rock star status over there is well deserved.
out.
My Dear HOBOBOH,
Thank you for your kind and reasonable words on my behalf. And good for you to be so informed regarding our very Generous President; you are indeed correct. President Bush is certainly a hero of Africa giving more and supporting Africa more than any other president or world leader, EVER! It is a wonderful thing that at least in Africa, they recognize him for what he is.
Good for you for doing the same.
Happy to have you in my corner,
I also agree that Stephen King was an almost perfect echo of John Kerry's comments on the miltary. I have a cousin who went into the army 20 years ago and finished his career in the military with a tour in Afghanistan and He holds a Masters degree and is just shy of a PhD if he wanted go for it. The military is not a depository for the less intelligent of our country. I am very proud of everyone who puts on the uniform to protect and defend even the Liberal Koolaid drinkers.
nora,
sorry for getting so pissed, you are just so ignorant. You keep asking what rights have been taken away personally. I'm sure you feel dandy and everything about living free. But if you really look at it nora, the countries level of freedom is going down. Since Clinton, our press has been whipped by the whitehouse. Its not republicans nora. Its government, and I want my civil liberties back!
and I agree that the president has done a good job in Africa, although his lack of funding for birth control over there is worrying. Using a condom is one of the easiest solutions, however, our "christian" government refuses to support funding of birth control distribution. But overall, the president and his administration have done a GREAT job over there, and I am dead serious.
Heathenhater,
I am just so ignorant? Still with the insults? If I am so ignorant, what civil liberties are you deprived of? 'I want my civil liberties back!, you say. Please enlighten poor ignorant me.
As for your freedom to speak out, take a look at Code Pink, and the Iraq Veterans Against The War, and Keith Olberman, etc. No one is being curtailed from speaking against the government. People call Bush Hitler, and stupid and hateful and worse every day.
NORA!!! GAH
Maybe I did not explain "free speech zones" well enough. Here's a story to show you how these have curbed the ordinary mans civil liberties.
"These [Free Speech] zones routinely succeed in keeping protesters out of presidential sight and outside the view of media covering the event. When Bush came to the Pittsburgh area on Labor Day 2002, 65-year-old retired steel worker Bill Neel was there to greet him with a sign proclaiming, 'The Bush family must surely love the poor, they made so many of us.' The local police, at the Secret Service's behest, set up a 'designated free-speech zone' on a baseball field surrounded by a chain-link fence a third of a mile from the location of Bush's speech. The police cleared the path of the motorcade of all critical signs, though folks with pro-Bush signs were permitted to line the president's path. Neel refused to go to the designated area and was arrested for disorderly conduct... Police detective John Ianachione testified that the Secret Service told local police to confine 'people that were there making a statement pretty much against the president and his views.'"[16][23] District justice Shirley Trkula threw out the charges, stating that "I believe this is America. Whatever happened to 'I don't agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it'?"[3]
At least that judge got it right nora.
My right to a free press has also been curtailed. Did you know - When a president has a press conference, reporters must submit their questions before hand? The president prepares responses before hand? The order of individuals to be asked questions is picked before hand? The whole thing is staged. How about that. Sure people speak out against the president. But look, when the White House sends a letter to NBC saying that they demanded an interview be changed. Thats when you know the press is not really free.
Okay, so we got freedom of speech, assembly, and press being limited. That good enough for you? And you may claim the 14 points sources are liberally biased, but maybe thats just your excuse to blind you from the truth.
Coming from one of the best evil men of all movies. From a few good men, the tides are turned and "you can't handle the truth!"
Heathenhater, for you information "Free Speech Zones" are not an invention of the Federal, State, County or municipal governments. There were in fact created by the Liberal Arts Colleges and Universities of the United States, such as UCLA Berkly, Yale, Harvard, William and Mary, George Washington University in the District of Columbia in the late 60's and early 70's, as a means of moving the Protestors away from the Academic Area. If you have a compalint about the creation of "Free Speech Zones," please be so kind as to take it up with their creator's the same Liberal Professors who are today filling your head with Socialism and other Comunistic Garbage. Have a nice day.
Sarge, I dont care where it came from. I care who does it. And right now, colleges and universities dont, and the government does. I was merely pointing out to nora some rights that HAVE been taken away.
"Sarge, I respect that you served, and I am aware that freedom is not and has never been free. But I cannot sit back and watch as this nation shits on itself and then cries when it starts smelling. The conflicts in which we are engaged in the Middle East are illegal, illegal, ILLEGAL."
What war was illegal? Last time I checked, a UN bill had required Sadam to allow inspections through, and he failed to oblige. Thus a legal invasion followed suit.
It's great that your professors are teaching you hogwash. We were all there once. In 2001 my Journalism 202 professor started the class while handing out the syllabus (which encouraged me to follow my fellow alumn's, Dick Cheney, lead and take a Poli Sci major) by stating there were two perspectives on political bias in the media. One is a leftwing bias since 97% of journalists are registered democrats. The other was to look at the angle of the corporate ownership of the media outlets that, theoretically, had the power to obscure or eliminate the news. Despite the fact that at that point the internet was being used all over the planet. Of course, we ignored the former and only studied the latter.
The professor? The same clown who started NPR. Media bias is omnipresent, and your misinformation is stunning. Ignorance is bliss, and you three (?) must be the happiest individuals on the planet.
the quality of your arguments proves his point - the bottom of the barrel go into the forces and post on these crappy neocon forums - what he should have said is "they should run intelligence tests on the entire population and exterminate the bottom 20%, that way we may not be able to recruit any more servicemen, but at least we would never have another republican in the white house"
Liberal_backlash. For your information it was the so-called bottom of the barrell as you refer to them who won World War 2, and Korea, and yes the Military did win in Vietnam, it was the Politicians who lost that one, not the Military. I myself have a Degree in Criminal Justice, I taught Constitutional Law for Police to the Military Police Commissioned Officer Basic Course, and the Advanced Course, I am the only enlisted man in the History of the US Army to have taught that class. I joined the Army not because I could not find a job in civilian life, but rather to give something back to this Country. I still teach about the Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers via an Internet Radio Show. As for the bottom 20% of the "people" I would suggest that you really take a look at the Welfare Rolls in your home state, and then look at how they consistantly vote, the true bottom 20% are in fact the poor and welfare cases, and the consistantly vote Democrat. That is a true fact, the individuals who lack the education, mainly because they did not have a desire to learn instilled in them by their parent(s) at an early age, because they to were welfare cases are the true back bone of the Democratic Party. The Republican Party was founded upon the principal of ending slavery, which they did in 1865 with the end of the Civil War, and the passage of the 13th Amendment, which incidently the Democrats in Congress voted against in mass, the enactment and passage of the 14th Amendment gave the freed slaves right of Citizenship which a Democrat Chief Justice by the name of Tanny said they did not enjoy in the infamous Dred Scott case of 1857, and finally the enactment of the 15th Amendment giving freed blacks the right to vote. These are the things that the Republican Party did, and for which History (As taught in public schools and Liberal Colleges and Universities) does not give them credit for. But as with 99% of the Liberals in this nation I am sure you will disagree with me, so please take the time to read a book called "The Bill of Rights," by Professor Akhil Reed Ahmar you could very well learn something that your own college Professor failed to tell you. Have a nice day.
Sarge - Success does not always correspond to intellect.......
Jonathon - keep telling yourself that the media is liberally biased.
Did you know - When a president has a press conference, reporters must submit their questions before hand? The president prepares responses before hand? The order of individuals to be asked questions is picked before hand? The whole thing is staged. How about that. Sure people speak out against the president. But look, when the White House sends a letter to NBC saying that they demanded an interview be changed. Thats when you know the press is not really free.
That sounds like a press really out to get the president to me, dont you agree?????
Media is all about money man -
Heathenhater,
The White House asked that the interview be played the way it was taped. That is, NOT CHANGED, chopped up the way they DID edit it. They merely wanted the presidents statement to be played UNEDITED. And guess what? If they don't comply, nothing will happen. That's how free this country is!. Duh!
Dear Sarge,
Liberal_Backlash and the rest of these fools aren't fit to shine your shoes. I am honored to be a fellow American. I only hope my children grow up to be more like you than the ignorant, vitriolic lefties.
Nora, how many times do heathenhater and I have to tell you the specific rights that have been taken away? Did you even read those 14 points that I outlined? Basically, what you keep asking me is "what rights have YOU had taken away?" What you're telling me is to shut up and shop until the government personally attacks me, and not to care when OTHER peoples' rights are taken away. And don't deny that, because it's clear as day. You're saying we should all be content and compliant until the government rounds us up and throws us in jail. That's rock solid logic, you selfish bitch.
Jonathon.... just, wow. Ignorance is bliss, and you have GOT to be the most ignorant person on the planet right about now if you are really pulling a UC and accusing the three (?) of us of being one in the same. Did you not see heathenhater and I arguing back and forth on the sick, sick world thread? That is so damn typical of the idiots on this site. Whenever they are backed into a corner and can't come up with an actual response, it's automatic they go to "You're all the same person!"And hell yeah that war was illegal! We lied and presented faulty intelligence both to the UN and the American people; we suspended human rights and the Geneva Convention simply because we are Amurica; the soldiers involved at Abu Ghraib got canned when the general in charge got promoted. You don't see any of the corruption here? Oh, but just cus there's lies and corruption and suspension of the most basic of human rights (ahem, TO LIVE), doesn't make it an illegal war. Good call.
Sarge, nice logic. So we won Vietnam after all! Politics and military walk hand in hand. Our mission was to contain the spread of Communism via proxy war in Vietnam, and to halt North Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh's expansion of influence over South Vietnam, if not kill him altogether. In both respects, we lost! Yeah, that's political; we wanted to contain Communism. But our MISSION, our OBJECTIVE, was to contain communism. That was the political reason for military intervention. We cannot have a military victory without political victory walking with it. The fact that we didn't contain the spread or stop Minh means we lost politically, but the fact that our military couldn't force North Vietnam into surrender or capture Ho Chi Minh or contain the spread of Communism all point to military failure. We did not win Vietnam. The best you could say is stalemate.
†
Since when was Vietnam even a legitimate war that could be "won" or "lost?" Last time I checked we just hopped in there and said "ay yo homeslice we finna break this little scuffle between y'all up," and started playing referee.
Well that's an argument all to itself, but regardless of whether we were supposed to be there or not, we clearly did not win. By the way, I like the petunia reference. It was fun while it lasted.
†
Did I miss something about the legality of the war? It's IRRELEVANT whether the intelligence was faulty or not, though it would have been nice to have actually found something to back up our invasion. The point is that Saddam was NOT complying with the UN resolution allowing weapons inspectors in. Remember Saddam? He was the big bad guy who gassed his own people, fought with Iran for the better half of a decade, and invaded Kuwait without provocation. That guy. Remember him? Before the US was the evil presence in the Mideast, there were UN resolutions getting flouted. Do you think the UN has no value and its resolutions should be ignored? Sure, it may be selective enforcement, but there is absolutely no substance between the communists' constant drumbeat that the war was illegal.
To all of the Libs posting about Nam and Iraq.
First regarding Nam, the Military does not set policy, it is set by the White House, and in not a few cases by the Congress. Lyndon B. Johnson was the President who got the US involved in Nam, and it was a Democrat Controlled House and Senate that passed, without debate, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution of 1965. It was Richard M. Nixon, the Democrats second favorite whipping boy, who got the North Vietnamese to the Table. It was a Democrat Controlled Congress, House and Senate, who cut off funding to aid the South, which resulted in the fall of Siagon, not the Republican Party. Second the US was a Guarantor Signator to the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) which South Vietnam was admitted to in 1958, as such we, The United States, were obligated to render assistance t any member nation upon request. In 1958 at the request of the South Vietnamese Government, The US created what became known as MAACV, Military Assistance Advisory Command-Vietnam. It was John F. Kennedy who authorized the doubling of that Command to over 1200 Military Personnel in 1961, immediately upon being sworn in as President.
Regarding Iraq, Saddam Hussain had violated 17 UN Resolutions, and had basically rubbed their noses in it, by booting the UN Inspectors out of Iraq. Congress had passed, and Bill Clinton had signed, a law authorizing the President to use what ever measures were necessary to REMOVE Saddam Hussain from power in 1998. In 2002, under the War Powers Act Congress, the House and Senate, authorized the President, (GW Bush) to use Military Force to remove Saddam Hussian from Power in Iraq. President Bush endeavored to gain the authorization from the UN Security Council to do just that, and was blocked by France, and Germany. The reasons became evident upon the Discovery in Iraq of the equipment necessary to produce Chemical Weapons, and Biological Weapons bearing the Names of both French and German Company's. Chemical Weapons, and Biological Weapons, are defined under the UN Charter as Weapons of Mass Destruction, we also found Russian Made Artillary Shells, containing Sarin Gas, and VX, VG Chemical Agents. The US Military also found evidence of Biological Agent Artillary Shells from Russia. All of this was reported one day by the News and forgotten Next. These are the real facts, not supisition, inaddition the FBI is intruppeting the Millions of Documents and Hard Drives seized from the Republican Guard Headquarters, and from the Iraqi Intelligence Agency Offices, as well as from Saddams own and numerous Palces. Many of these Documents have already been posted on various Governmen Web Site, and are readily available for research. Try using Google, also you might try reading a book by Major General Sada, the former Vice Air Marshall of the Iraqi Air Force under Saddam, it is called "Saddams Secrets." These people are the facts, you can belittle me all you want, I am used to it, and it only shows you true character and intelligence level. HAVE A NICE DAY.
Sarge;
You know bleeding heart liberals hate facts. You should stop using them.
You should displace some revisionist historians that are currently teaching at my alma mater. You're far more informed, or at least far more capable of making well-informed references.
What's your Alma Mater? I'll make sure to transfer there. I wasn't taking any stabs at the Vietnam issue...errr....wait...
Sarge,
Thanks for contradicting yourself numerous times. You said "Lyndon B. Johnson was the President who got the US involved in Nam."
Then you said, "the US created what became known as MAACV, Military Assistance Advisory Command-Vietnam. It was John F. Kennedy who authorized the doubling of that Command to over 1200 Military Personnel in 1961, immediately upon being sworn in as President."
Now
You know conservatives hate the truth. You should stop using it.
You're right though Iraq was totally legitimate, just like GW as a president. Who in their right mind would think otherwise? I guess his all-time low approval rating is just a bunch of UNINFORMED libs trying to convince the knowledgeable that a conservative was bad? It's all a massive conspiracy! Thanks for pointing that out to me, Jonny. And Sarge. Thanks to your award-winning testimonies, i think I'll become conservative.
My quarrel with Vietnam is not red versus blue, Sarge. It's legality. I don't fucking care which president did what, or how well he slept at night. I care about the legality of the war and how America ate it up at first, and then realized they shouldn't have--just like now. And Sarge, you can't honestly believe Vietnam was in any way a victory, except for our enemies. I know Tricky Dick pulled us out of Vietnam, and while he was pretty brilliant with foreign relations, that is not to say that he is single-handedly responsible for pulling out.
As for Iraq, maybe Saddam did violate some UN resolutions, but why then did we use WMDs as our excuse? Why not cite those 14 violations? In fact, what Bush sold to the public is one thing: Saddam had WMDs. And while we did find some WMDs over there, what no one seems to know is that those WMDs were the ones WE sold to them. Those were the ONLY ones we found! But Saddam's a terrorist-harboring, Islamic-extremist freedom-hater! Had we NOT invaded, we'd be living in constant fear of invasion or attack. (By the way, North Korea and Iran are still at large. Why can't those libs just wake up and admit we need to invade them?) The intelligence was hastily assembled, never checked, and rushed out to the public. We used 9/11 as a motivator for getting Americans behind invading Iraq. Did I mention there was NO correlation between the two?
The suspension of human rights and the Geneva Conventions made that war illegal if nothing else before it did. Go to Abu Ghraib, check out the torture pictures, and read the memos (I recommend the Bybee), and tell me that's not bullshit. "We are America! We don't have to abide by YOUR silly rules! Also, we can torture if we want." Nice. Love it.
This new format sucks by the way. (What? A liberal saying change is bad?!) Why the hell did the site need changing? It was fine the way it was, so why can't