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The Day After: The stories unfold about Sarah Palin

September 4th, 2008 Urban Conservative

Since Sarah Palin’s magnificent speech last night at the Republican Convention, there have been a multitude of articles about her performance and character; way too many to post here but some initial articles caught my attention.

If you missed the speech, you can read the excerpt here or watch below. According to Drudge, 37,244,000 million people watched the speech last night, which is probably the greatest number ever to watch a candidate for the Vice Presidency, and just 1 million shy of Obama.  It’s becoming clear to me that in less than 6 days, Sarah Palin has been able to energize Republicans and conservatives; something John McCain has struggled to do.

Chicago Sun-Times columnist Mary Mitchell says that although Palin is from the backwoods of Alaska, she has the heart of a street fighter; and that she is on the Republican ticket because she is a woman and isn’t afraid to go toe to toe with the Democrats. Our friends in the UK kinda like her which is surprising. Some aides from the unemployed Clinton camp spoke out and said that Palin has been treated unfairly and has been subjected to a sexist double standard by the media and Democrats, but what else is new. Even Ann Coulter decided to vote for McCain because of Palin; and this comes after a statement that “she would rather vote for Hillary than McCain.”

Even the left wing types like Gloria Steinem at the LA Times got it right when she said that “Sarah Palin shares nothing on common with Hillary Clinton but a chromosome”.   I applaud this statement and couldn’t agree more even though the rest of the article is full of crap.  Even the loonies in Hollywood chimed in like Annette Bening (who?). Her opinion, well … doesn’t really count since she is just a “B” grade actress anyway and isn’t in the same league as say a Susan Sarandon. 

I was also surprised to read an article about her hair style, which I think is just fine; Sarah-wear products arriving on the scene (my favorite one is ‘Our mama beats your Obama’); and yes, she did make an attempt to sell the “private jet” on eBay. 

Here is a 4 minute video highlighting Sarah’s speech.

You need to a flashplayer enabled browser to view this YouTube video

Tags: Governor Sarah Palin, Main Stream Media, hockey mom, Sarah palin, Ann Coulter, Gloria Steinem, selling a jet on eBay, Our mama beats your Obama t-shirts



Rating: 2.9/5 (32 votes cast)

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  • toe
    Isn't it interesting that the host here - who has freely confessed to using "Drudge" as his source for unfiltered "news"...yet, when the results of "troopergate" came out Friday- at approx. 6:45 PM Friday my time- (Mountain)... no mention of Palin's "abuse of power" and the ethics violations confirmed was made by Mr UC's favorite site until the following day---showing up near noon and "below the fold".  
    Usually bad news spreads quickly... of course if it's bad for your side, it's not in your best interest and you'll  work to keep it hushed. 
    http://www.newsweek.com/id/163465
  • toe
    http://news.google.com/nwshp?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&ncl=1255826864&topic=h
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/10/alaska_legislative_probe_finds.html
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aXKt37HYgjK4&refer=home
    http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/national_world/stories/2008/10/11/palin_1011.ART_ART_10-11-08_A1_TKBIRFE.html?sid=101

    despite all evidence to the contrary, Fox "News" this morning
    on their Saturday morning early show ran a banner below them, stating essentially that Palin did nothing wrong  or illegal- as they sat to say that this was not a big deal, not important, and  by Monday it would all go away. 

      "Abuse of Power"  - not important???
    (I guess it was mavericky.)

    Conservatives - and their talking heads are saying that this investigation was driven by the Obama campaign.
    HUH?
    Once again, to these people, facts don't matter. 
    1) the ethics probe regarding Palin was already underway prior (that would be before) Palin was selected as McCain's VP  choice and "soul mate". On July 28, the Legislative Council, a bipartisan body of House and Senate members that can convene to make decisions when the Legislature is not in session, approved an independent investigation into whether the governor abused the powers of her office to pursue a personal vendetta.
    2) Palin had agreed to cooperate and comply with whatever the bipartisan
    investigator panel requested prior to her selection as VP.
    3) Immediately after she was selected by McCain,  Palin stated in no uncertain terms that she would no longer cooperate with the investigating panel- nor would any of her people.
    4) The McCain people stepped in and made every effort to stop, thwart, or dismiss the entire process. 
    5) Alaska's supreme court found the investigation should continue.
    6) McCain's people finally relented but insisted upon, and made every effort to have the results of the findings not released until after the general election. They failed. 
  • Linda
    David, I lived in Germany in the 50s, the 80s, Italy, in the 70s, and The Netherlands in the late 80s.  I never really ran across the kind of animosity you talk about.  But then my Dad and husband were Air Force.
    If you lived some place like K-town, where the concentration of U.S. Army troops was so high; well then, I can imagine that some had a less than stellar view of us.  Frankly, my  experiences in all those years was positive.   Living on the economy was a lot different than living on base.  Most assignments, we were among the population and interacting with them 24/7.  I am not blind, and I know that some of us are rude.
  • Well Traveled.......
    few Americans see the value of knowing and understanding others values and culture.  Serving as a US soldier in Germany, i saw how disgusted many Germans were with us.  Their view of us was fostered by some among us who were rude, arrogant, and ignorant.
    I was appalled by the way John McCain answered questions about
    José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, Spain's PM.  Yet we hear talk about his experience!  What kind of experience is this?  He displayed the same values i mentioned above(rude, arrogant, and ignorant).....
    Do people in America really have such a dim view of diplomacy, to take gaffes like this so lightly?
  • Well Travelled
    As a non-American who deeply respects America let me offer an outsiders view on what's wrong with Palin. It's one thing to have confidence but on what basis is that confidence founded? Confidence without substance and without the required experience to back it up is not only misguided it's also very dangerous. Mrs Palin claims to be ready to lead America and thinks she has the skills to shape and direct US foreign policy. Why does she think this? Until very recently, she has never been outside North America and appears to display little understanding of international politics or international diplomacy. Her statement regarding her willingness to potentially go to war over countries such as Georgia are just plain stupid. Has not the USA already overstretched itself militarily in Iraq and Afghanistan without suggesting a willingness/obligation to take on Russia? What is to be gained from such statements? Surely she does not think that she will frighten Russia into submission. Such talk only fuels Russian nationalism and plays into the hands of Putin. Furthermore, to suggest that Russia was completely to blame for the South Ossetia conflict is to fail to understand recent history in Goergia. I've lived in Venezuela, Syria, UK, USA, Japan, Australia and New Zealand and have travelled to India, Nepal, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Thailand, Egypt, Equador, Italy, Greece, Austria, Spain, Czech Republic and Germany; and you know what, I'm not so arrogant to think I have the skills and depth of understanding to direct US foreign policy. What on earth makes her think she is ready!!

    At least Obama has experience as Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs, studied International Relations at Coubmia University, lived in Indonesia as a child - some may say so what, I say at least them demonstrates a clear understanding of the world we live in, not just a narrow focus on the good old US of A.
  • 129
    it matters that the voters discover the real truth.......
  • Teeninchee
    Does it matter whether our candidates tell the truth?
  • MDCambridge
    For the record, I have voted Republican just about all of my life, not anymore.


    Lincoln once said something like, If you don't stop telling lies about me, I'll start telling the truth about you. (I am still looking for the exact quote.) Frankly, I don't think the McCain campaign would survive a dose of the truth:a womanizer, crashed 3 or 4 jets due to his reckless flying, started an affair with a much younger woman while still married, and divorced his wife who was recovering from a car accident. (He did pay for her 23 operations, how kind.) These are his words, not mine (except for the "how kind.") His biography claims that his reckless days were "changed" by Vietnam and some pundits claim that you "have to cut him slack" for his divorce due to his war experience. But he claims he came back a better man after the war; it was after the ware that he had the affair and dumped his wife for Cindy.
  • MDCambridge
    <!--StartFragment-->
    <!--StartFragment-->
    For the record, I've been and voted Republican most of my life, not anymore:
    Lincoln once said something like, If you don't stop telling lies about me, I'll start telling the truth about you. I think McCain would lose a mudslinging contest: womanizer, crashed 3 or 4 jets due to his reckless flying, started an affair with a much younger woman, Cindy (picked her up in a bar in Hawaii), divorced his wife who had been recovering from a car accident. (He did pay for her 23 operations after the divorce, how kind.) These are his words, not mine (except for the "how kind").  His biography claims that his reckless days were “changed” by Vietnam and some pundits claim that you “have to cut him slack” for his divorce due to his war experience. But he claims he came back a better man after the war; it was after the war that he dumped his wife for Cindy.



    <!--EndFragment-->
  • MDCambridge
    <!--StartFragment-->
    Lincoln once said something like, "If you don't stop telling lies about me, I'll start telling the truth about you." I think McCain would lose a mudslinging contest: womanizer, crashed 3 or 4 jets due to his reckless flying, started and affair with Cindy (picked her up in a bar in Hawaii), divorced his wife who was recovering from a car accident. (He did pay for her 23 operations after the divorce, how kind.) These are his words, not mine (except for the "how kind").  His biography claims that his reckless days were “changed” by Vietnam and some pundits claim you “have to cut him slack” for his divorce due to his war experience. But he claims he came back a better man after the war; it was after the war that he dumped his wife for Cindy.
    <!--EndFragment-->
  • I suppose sedition isn't selling our country out to the oil industry Linda
  • Linda
    Revolution you can believe in
    Melanie Phillips



    Tuesday, 9th September 2008

    In her game-changing convention speech, Sarah Palin took a swipe at Obama for having been nothing more in his life than a ‘community organiser’.
    This prompted the Obama campaign to issue a pained defence of community organisation as a way of promoting social change ‘from the bottom up’. The impression is that community organising is a worthy if woolly and ultimately ineffectual grassroots activity. This is to miss something of the greatest importance: that in the world of Barack Obama, community organisers are a key strategy in a different game altogether; and the name of that game is revolutionary Marxism.
    The seditious role of the community organiser was developed by an extreme left intellectual called Saul Alinsky. He was a radical Chicago activist who, by the time he died in 1972, had had a profound influence on the highest levels of the Democratic party. Alinsky was a ‘transformational Marxist’ in the mould of Antonio Gramsci, who promoted the strategy of a ‘long march through the institutions’ by capturing the culture and turning it inside out as the most effective means of overturning western society. In similar vein, Alinsky condemned the New Left for alienating the general public by its demonstrations and outlandish appearance. The revolution had to be carried out through stealth and deception. Its proponents had to cultivate an image of centrism and pragmatism. A master of infiltration, Alinsky wooed Chicago mobsters and Wall Street financiers alike. And successive Democratic politicians fell under his spell.
    His creed was set out in his book ‘Rules for Radicals’ – a book he dedicated to Lucifer, whom he called the ‘first radical’. It was Alinsky for whom ‘change’ was his mantra. And by ‘change’, he meant a Marxist revolution achieved by slow, incremental, Machiavellian means which turned society inside out. This had to be done through systematic deception, winning the trust of the naively idealistic middle class by using the language of morality to conceal an agenda designed to destroy it. And the way to do this, he said, was through ‘people’s organisations’.
    Community organisers would mobilise direct action by the oppressed masses against their capitalist oppressors. In FrontPageMagazine.Com John Perazzo writes:

    These People’s Organizations were to be composed largely of discontented individuals who believed that society was replete with injustices that prevented them from being able to live satisfying lives. Such organizations, Alinsky advised, should not be imported from the outside into a community, but rather should be staffed by locals who, with some guidance from trained radical organizers, could set their own agendas.
    The installment of local leaders as the top-level officers of People’s Organizations helped give the organizations credibility and authenticity in the eyes of the community. This tactic closely paralleled the longtime Communist Party strategy of creating front organizations that ostensibly were led by non-communist fellow-travelers, but which were in fact controlled by Party members behind the scenes...
    Alinsky viewed as supremely important the role of the organizer, or master manipulator, whose guidance was responsible for setting the agendas of the People’s Organization... Alinsky laid out a set of basic principles to guide the actions and decisions of radical organizers and the People’s Organizations they established. The organizer, he said, ‘must first rub raw the resentments of the people; fan the latent hostilities to the point of overt expression. He must search out controversy and issues, rather than avoid them, for unless there is controversy people are not concerned enough to act.’[40] The organizer’s function, he added, was ‘to agitate to the point of conflict’[41] and ‘to maneuver and bait the establishment so that it will publicly attack him as a “dangerous enemy.” ‘[42] ‘The word ‘enemy,’ said Alinsky, ‘is sufficient to put the organizer on the side of the people’;[43] i.e., to convince members of the community that he is so eager to advocate on their behalf, that he has willingly opened himself up to condemnation and derision.

    Obama’s connection with Alinsky, whom he never met but whom he reportedly idolised, was through two bodies promoting the Alinsky model of community organisation, ACORN and the Gamaliel Foundation.  John Perazzo again:

    Obama was trained by the Alinsky-founded Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF) in Chicago and worked for an affiliate of the Gamaliel Foundation, whose modus operandi for the creation of ‘a more just and democratic society’ is rooted firmly in the Alinsky method. As The Nation magazine puts it, ‘Obama worked in the organizing tradition of Saul Alinsky, who made Chicago the birthplace of modern community organizing...’  In fact, for several years Obama himself taught workshops on the Alinsky method.

    But Obama brought a special slant to Alinsky’s radicalism.Far from being – as he has been painted – a ‘post-racial’ politician, Obama’s politics are all about promoting the cause of black people and achieving ‘reparations’ from white society (a perspective through which his whole welfare redistribution agenda is framed). Accordingly, he saw his three-year role as a community organiser in Chicago as mobilising black people for action against their white oppressors. Finding himself hampered in creating an activist network among black churches, he decided to join such a church to give himself more credibility. That’s why he joined the infamous black-power Trinity Church of Christ – a move, it seems, that had less to do with any spiritual quest than as a radical tactic for mobilising the black proletariat.
    According to Stanley Kurtz in National Review (subscription required), as a trainer for Gamaliel and ACORN Obama used his influence to secure a major increase in funding for both groups. Kurtz writes of Gamaliel, one of the least known yet most influential national umbrella groups for church-based community organizers:

    Gamaliel specializes in ideological stealth, and Obama, a master student of Gamaliel strategy, shows disturbing signs of being a sub rosa radical himself. Obama's legislative tactics, as well as his persistent professions of non-ideological pragmatism, appear to be inspired by his radical mentors' most sophisticated tactics. Not only has Obama studied, taught, and apparently absorbed stealth techniques from radical groups like Gamaliel and ACORN, but in his position as a board member of Chicago’s supposedly nonpartisan Woods Fund, he quietly funneled money to his radical allies -- at the very moment he most needed their support to boost his political career.

    Kurtz also quotes Rutgers political scientist Heidi Swarts who, in her book Organizing Urban America: Secular and Faith-based Progressive Movements, lays out the strategy of stealth:

    Swarts calls groups like ACORN and (especially) Gamaliel ‘invisible actors,’ hidden from public view because they often prefer to downplay their efforts, because they work locally, and because scholars and journalists pay greater attention to movements with national profiles (like the Sierra Club or the Christian Coalition). Congregation-based community organizations like Gamaliel, by contrast, are often invisible even at the local level. A newspaper might report on a demonstration led by a local minister or priest, for example, without noticing that the clergyman in question is part of the Gamaliel network. ‘Though often hidden from view,’ says Swarts, ‘leaders have intentionally and strategically organized these movements that appear to well up and erupt from below.’
    Although Gamaliel and ACORN have significantly different tactics and styles, Swarts notes that their political goals and ideologies are broadly similar. Both groups press the state for economic redistribution. The tactics of Gamaliel and ACORN have been shaped in a ‘post-Alinsky’ era of welfare reform and conservative resurgence, posing a severe challenge to those who wish to expand the welfare state. The answer these activists have hit upon, says Swarts, is to work incrementally in urban areas, while deliberately downplaying the far-Left ideology that stands behind their carefully targeted campaigns.
    To avoid seeming like radicals or ‘hippies left over from the sixties,’ Gamaliel organizers are careful to wear conventional clothing and conduct themselves with dignity, even formality. Since liberal social movements tend to come off as naïve and idealistic, Gamaliel organizers make a point of presenting their ideas as practical, pragmatic, and down-to-earth. When no one else is listening, Gamaliel organizers may rail at ‘racism,’ ‘sexism,’ and ‘oppressive corporate systems,’ but when speaking to their blue-collar followers, they describe their plans as ‘common sense solutions for working families.’

    If anyone should doubt Obama’s debt to Saul Alinsky, they might ponder this encomium from no less an authority than Alinsky’s own son. In a letter to the Boston Globe, L. David Alinsky wrote of his father’s influence at the Democratic Convention:

    All the elements were present: the individual stories told by real people of their situation and hardships, the packed-to-the rafters crowd, the crowd’s chanting of key phrases and names, the action on the spot of texting and phoning to show instant support and commitment to jump into the political battle, the rallying selections of music, the setting of the agenda by the power people.
    Barack Obama's training in Chicago by the great community organizers is showing its effectiveness. It is an amazingly powerful format, and the method of my late father always works to get the message out and get the supporters on board. When executed meticulously and thoughtfully, it is a powerful strategy for initiating change and making it really happen. Obama learned his lesson well.

    Obama’s questionable links to various radicals are now well-known: the black power racists Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Fr. Michael Pfleger, the former Weather Underground terrorism supporters Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorn. On CNN’s Glenn Beck show a few days ago Jerome Corsi, author of Obama Nation, observed:

    Obama began his career, his coming out party in 1995, and Ayers and Bernadine Dorn's home. And then for, you know, some 20 years, Obama has been working with Ayers, certainly since 1995, on a series of foundations: the Annenberg Foundation and the Woods Foundation. The boards of directors together, or in the Annenberg Foundation, Ayers created it, and Obama was on it. And together they spent the money of these foundations to implement their radical socialist agenda.

    As EM Forster wrote in a somewhat different context, only connect.
    When Hillary Clinton was fighting Obama for the Democratic candidacy, her camp implied that the party would be making a terrible mistake in selecting Obama because, unlike centrist Hillary, he was a left-winger. But Hillary is an even more fervent Alinsky acolyte. In their book The Shadow Party, David Horowitz and Glenn Poe recount how Hillary first met Alinsky through a left-wing church group to which she belonged in high school, and stayed close to him until his death. Indeed, so impressed was she with his beliefs that she wrote a 75-page salute to him in her senior thesis at Wellesley College in 1969, which contained excerpts of the not-yet published Rules for Radicals. She wrote:

    If the ideals Alinsky espouses were actualized, the result would be social revolution. Ironically, this is not a disjunctive projection if considered in the tradition of Western democratic theory. In the first chapter it was pointed out that Alinsky is regarded by many as the proponent of a dangerous socio/political philosophy. As such, he has been feared -- just as Eugene Debs or Walt Whitman or Martin Luther King has been feared, because each embraced the most radical of political faiths -- democracy.

    That’s not democracy as we know it, more a Marxist conception of people power. On FrontPage, Perazzo writes:

    During her senior year, Hillary was offered a job by Alinsky but chose instead to enrol at Yale Law School. Alinsky’s teachings, however, would remain close to her heart throughout her adult life. According to a Washington Post report, ‘As first lady, Clinton occasionally lent her name to projects endorsed by the Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF), the Alinsky group that had offered her a job in 1968. She raised money and attended two events organized by the Washington Interfaith Network, an IAF affiliate.’

    Alinsky was a radical straight out of the Gramsci playbook. In both America and Britain, Gramsci’s acolytes have been conducting a decades-long march through the institutions. In Britain, they have substantially achieved their aim of subverting western morality and changing the face of British society. No political party stands against this. In the US, they have made huge inroads but haven’t yet won. With Palin on one side and Obama on the other, it is now clear that this US presidential election has taken the culture war to the gates of the White House itself.
  • Jack
    kimberly--i disagree with most of what you said except for one point--"McCain has lied."  Obama has too and he has also taken liberties with a lot of McCains comments.  I said liberties to be polite.  He lied about those too!  So, now we understand policians lie.   I knew that.  Please see my post #111.  The way i see it is that i have a choice to be poor under Obama's tax plan or be the status quo.  i at least want it as is or my taxes cut because i can at least feed my family.  i would like to chose who i give my hard earned money too instead of the goverment doing it for me.  that is important to me but i guess democrats like the idea of taking it from others.  by the way i have worked two jobs while raising a family and managed to find a little time to volunteer for causes i believed in.  i got no sleep but..........   

    unless we actually read the entire bill that McCain voted against, we don't know the whole story.  unfortunately, parties for both sides attach "extra" items on bills that we don't hear about.  so i don't base my opinions solely on the veto until i know the whole story.   i also don't agree with your statement about community activists.  i listened to the speech several times and she was referring to Obama's qualifications and that was it.  There was no more to it than that.  but, of course, people on both sides love to take things out of context.  It is time to focus on the issues that have this country in turmoil-the economy and our protection.  i'll be willing to bet that if our economy ever hits bottom (which it hasn't yet and i hope it won't), we will all be out of jobs and won't be worrying about who said what and how and to whom!  i'm just tired of the distractions.  In my opinion McCain wanted townhalls to hear from the people and both candidates would be there to take up for themselves.  it would cut down on the "stretching of the truth from both sides."
  • Kimberly
    Watching the Presidential forum tonight, some things struck me as disingenuous & hypocritical....
    McCain says that more people in America need to "serve" their country. To be more actively involved in making their neighborhoods better & making government better. Yet correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't his OWN VP pick denegrate "community activists"?? Palin mocked Obama for HIS community service and now McCain is saying MORE Americans need to do the same kind of community service OBAMA did!!! WHY should they bother? Its obvious their activism & volunteer work won't be appreciated. Matter of fact, they'll only be ridiculed for it. And I hate to tell ya John, but with more & more people having to work 2 jobs, who the hell has TIME for volunteer work!!?!! And stop blaming Obama for HER comments. She was NOT defending herself against smears. HE never said ONE WORD about her qualifications. WE the American people wanted to know what they were, as we have every right to!! WE are the ones who demand OUR OWN chance to "vet" her. You sure had a LOT to say about what YOU thought about Obama's qualifications to be President.
    McCain wants to expand the military but he voted AGAINST veterans benefits. HIS was the deciding vote to pass the bill and he said NO! He wants to send your children to war but when they get home, he doesn't want to pay for them to go to college or receive the full medical benefits & pay they deserve!!! AND WHY??? HIS kids don't have to worry about going to college on a GI Bill and HIS kids are covered under Government insurance! (And HIS kids have 7 houses to choose from!!)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_9sI7hzAc
    He's also blaming the tone of the campaign on Obama!!! He's saying that things wouldn't have gotten ugly if only Obama had agreed to town hall debates. So in other words, Obama didn't want to run HIS campaign by McCain's rules so he decided to act like a petulant little boy by taking his toys and going home mad. When asked further about the nasty tone the campaign has taken, he dodged the question totally and said it should be based on ISSUES. THIS coming from the man that approved ads claiming Obama wanted to teach kindergardners sex ed? THIS coming from the man who approved ads with wolves stalking poor, helpless Palin?? THIS coming from the man that has LIED about Obama's tax policy??? THIS coming from the man that hired Steve Schmidt, Rick Davis, & KARL ROVE to manage his campaign? You can't hire men that use lies, distractions & shady tactics and then claim YOU'RE the one running a honorable campaign! It doesn't work that way John!! "Do as I say, not as I do" won't work anymore!!
  • Jack
    TrueBlue--
    I completely disagree with your last comment.  I wouldn't vote for McCain to spite democrats.  I am a strong independent-thinking successful female and wouldn't vote for democrats because of their policies and would never EVER vote for Hilary under any circumstances!!  Women's issues are extremely important to me.  However, I'm a common sense person and understand the politics within companies that would make any equal pay bill almost impossible to apply.  In every company I've worked for, you are not allowed to know the others' pay.  If you do and mention anything about it, you are fired immediately.  Now if you somehow manage to get away with it, the management will find a way to get rid of you later because you are labeled a trouble maker.  That stigma whether it be right or wrong can ruin your name and reputation and companies can be very reluctant to hire you.  That is what women face.  I've seen it happen.  McCain did not approve the bill because of the high cost of trial lawyers.  that may or may not be a good enough reason but he was right and it is harder to find a job after that situation anyway.  i've seen it!  I would rather know that my daughter does not have to support me when i retire.  I would like to be able to support myself on the money i save for retirement and retire at whatever age i deem appropriate and not the age the government tells me i can!  Obama wants to raise the capital gains taxes so this will affect a lot of regular hard working folks in the pocketbook.  that is not taxing the rich as he says so i guess he is a liar too, huh?  I don't want to be a burden to my daughter.  I would also like to be able to afford to give my daughter a college education because it is my responsibility as a parent to do so.  it is not the government's job.  however, according to obama's tax plan, he would like me to give more of my hard earned money to others' by raising my taxes.  My dream for giving my daughter a good education may be gone because obama wants more of what little i have.  keep in mind i'm not weathy but he would classify it as such.  who made him all-knowing?  I would be happier knowing my daughter had a chance at a future and that the government would not take more of her money so she could raise a family if she so chooses.  so i don't call that stabbing her in the back.  As for all of the comments he was supposed to have made, i wasn't there and don't know and would be appalled to hear it.  however, the conservative values he stands for are far more important for our economy and protection.  I agree with the fact that women's issues are important but considering what we are facing in this country right now with our economy on the brink of who knows what and the terrorist factor, i'll put that on the back burner for now.  If our economy fails or we have another attack, i don't think people will be worried about much else!  by the way, i have never lived in Alaska and don't claim to know much about the rape kits but for whatever reason the victims were made to pay for them does not protect predators in any way.  i agree with the article i read about that though--the taxpayers should not foot the bill.  THE PREDATOR SHOULD!
  • Linda,
    Just what are we supposed to do with kids that have no jobs and no future.  Perhaps if there were jobs for all of them, things would be different.  It is easy to criticize, much harder to present a solution.  Instead of criticizing, why not present a viable alternative.  Leaving things as they are just ain't gonna cut it.
    Not everyone is cut out for the military.  It takes a lot of brains and stamina to be a good soldier or a marine.  So what about the rest?  The fact is.....if they can gain an education, in the long run it will enrich our nation.  This is what is commonly referred to as an investment.
  • Linda
    READ THIS, AND RE READ IT AGAIN.  READ IT UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND IT.  AND THEN READ IT AGAIN.  I ALREADY KNEW ABOUT THIS GROUP AND BARACK OBAMA'S DESIRE TO NATIONALIZE IT.

    THIS IS FROM iNVESTORS BUSINESS DAILY EDITORIALS


    Barack Obama was a founding member of the board of Public Allies in 1992, resigning before his wife became executive director of the Chicago chapter of Public Allies in 1993. Obama plans to use the nonprofit group, which he features on his campaign Web site, as the model for a national service corps. He calls his Orwellian program, "Universal Voluntary Public Service."
    Big Brother had nothing on the Obamas. They plan to herd American youth into government-funded reeducation camps where they'll be brainwashed into thinking America is a racist, oppressive place in need of "social change."
    The pitch Public Allies makes on its Web site doesn't seem all that radical. It promises to place young adults (18-30) in paid one-year "community leadership" positions with nonprofit or government agencies. They'll also be required to attend weekly training workshops and three retreats.
    In exchange, they'll get a monthly stipend of up to $1,800, plus paid health and child care. They also get a post-service education award of $4,725 that can be used to pay off past student loans or fund future education.
    But its real mission is to radicalize American youth and use them to bring about "social change" through threats, pressure, tension and confrontation — the tactics used by the father of community organizing, Saul "The Red" Alinsky.
    "Our alumni are more than twice as likely as 18-34 year olds to . . . engage in protest activities," Public Allies boasts in a document found with its tax filings. It has already deployed an army of 2,200 community organizers like Obama to agitate for "justice" and "equality" in his hometown of Chicago and other U.S. cities, including Cincinnati, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New York, Phoenix, Pittsburgh and Washington. "I get to practice being an activist," and get paid for it, gushed Cincinnati recruit Amy Vincent.
    Public Allies promotes "diversity and inclusion," a program paper says. More than 70% of its recruits are "people of color." When they're not protesting, they're staffing AIDS clinics, handing out condoms, bailing criminals out of jail and helping illegal aliens and the homeless obtain food stamps and other welfare.
    Public Allies brags that more than 80% of graduates have continued working in nonprofit or government jobs. It's training the "next generation of nonprofit leaders" — future "social entrepreneurs."
    The Obamas discourage work in the private sector. "Don't go into corporate America," Michelle has exhorted youth. "Work for the community. Be social workers." Shun the "money culture," Barack added. "Individual salvation depends on collective salvation."
    "If you commit to serving your community," he pledged in his Denver acceptance speech, "we will make sure you can afford a college education." So, go through government to go to college, and then go back into government.
    Many of today's youth find the pitch attractive. "I may spend the rest of my life trying to create social movement," said Brian Coovert of the Cincinnati chapter. "There is always going to be work to do. Until we have a perfect country, I'll have a job."
    Not all the recruits appreciate the PC indoctrination. "It was too touchy-feely," said Nelly Nieblas, 29, of the 2005 Los Angeles class. "It's a lot of talk about race, a lot of talk about sexism, a lot of talk about homophobia, talk about -isms and phobias."
    One of those -isms is "heterosexism," which a Public Allies training seminar in Chicago describes as a negative byproduct of "capitalism, white supremacy, patriarchy and male-dominated privilege."
    The government now funds about half of Public Allies' expenses through Clinton's AmeriCorps. Obama wants to fully fund it and expand it into a national program that some see costing $500 billion. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the military, he said.
    The gall of it: The Obamas want to create a boot camp for radicals who hate the military — and stick American taxpayers with the bill.
  • Linda
    If you want to see the real issues addressed, ask Obama to refrain from petty snide remarks like "lipstick on a  pig" .   Sorry your marxist candidate is running out of rhetoric, and must resort to this.
  • TrueBlue.......it appears as if this woman will be our president one day.  To bad for America that a woman like this will ascend to (i hesitate to say LEAD our nation)control our government, just because the the real issues that confront our nation were overwhelmed by petty bullshit such as "lipstick on a pig", or covert racism that I see here in my own state of NorthCarolina.
  • TrueBlue
    Should Crime Victims be made to pay for the cost of investigating those crimes?

    Palin seemed to think so - at least for victims of rape:

    Critics: Under Palin, Wasilla charged rape victims for exam
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/52266...

    The same women who are so disaffected by the Clinton defeat are willing to excuse great sins on the part of McCain/Palin, and it can only be out of spite.

    The fact is that Obama passed legislation to protect children from predators, Palin protects predators by forcing victims to pay for their own rape kits.  McCain's desire to have a debate about sexism is especially strange coming from a man who makes jokes about apes raping women, who claimed that Chelsea Clinton was so ugly because Janet Reno was her father, who is close friends with and the beneficiary of a man who thinks if rape is inevitable we should just sit back and enjoy it, who has used the 'c' word at his wife in front of reporters, and FINALLY who has voted against every issue that matters to women and children INCLUDING equal pay for equal work.

    Vote McCain to spite the Democrats, and it will be your daughters you are stabbing in the back.
  • Linda
    Thank you Jack.
  • TKPedersen
    Jack, you post #111 is essentially right on point and well stated. I, for one, am in essential agreement with you description of the current state of politics.  Thank you.
  • Jack
    you and every hero that has served our country are not a part of what i'm speaking of.  you guys "should" fall under a military plan that would give you the best healthcare available in modern medicine today.  this is entirely not what i'm speaking about.  i don't understand why you would ever think anyone would put you in this category.  i think you and others know exactly the folks i'm speaking of.  you have served our country and that is not stealing.  however, there are people who fall under the subject that i'm speaking about and they know who they are and i know plenty of them personally.  from what i understand the va hospitals are not serving you guys and it is wrong.
  • So Jack,
    Carrie in Tx. is in the "give me, steal from others" category?
    Yeah I don't work because of my choices.......i decided to join the army to allow my family access to healthcare, we otherwise would not have had.
    Now I can't work because of "service-connected" disabilities..........while the VA hospital is so god-damned over crowded!  Am i proud of America?
    Certainly not of my government (or lack there of).
  • Jack
    ok.  this is silly.  People who say if you want to vote for the same vote for McCain are obviously not looking at Biden and his record.  HA!  of course, Obama voted "present" over 100 times so one can only say he likes to tow the line.  how useful is that for a President in his decision making?  now Biden is more of the same and he votes with his party everytime.  at least McCain shows that he does not.  For those who love to look at what McCain and others have voted against, you would have to read the entire bill to see the whole picture and the earmarks that were included to understand his position completely.  Otherwise negative judgements on the individual bills are unfounded.  For those who call McCain/Palin liars, go to checkfacts.com and you'll find both parties are at fault.  How dumb does someone have to be to not understand that politicians do this?  It is dishonest and both sides lie.  the website proves that Obama has stretched the truth/lied a tremendous amount.  neither side lives in glass houses.  so we are all left to pick from the candidates that are there and have to figure out which of them will get our govenment back.  Look at Congress and who is running it and tell me we don't have probems--" nothing and leave for vacation during a crisis" is their motto.  that is how much they care.  I've never met a democrat that actually bases any conversations on facts.  they love to veer off the subject and act like children with "well, well your candidate wore the wrong color after labor day or some stupid comment that is just as revelent to the actual issues that this country faces.  40% of the working folks pay no taxes except for the social security tax.  under Obama's plan he will give them a rebate check courtesy of the working people who chose to manage their careers and families through education and long hours.  now the folks who aren't paying taxes have children that, of course, will probably need government assistance with college and/or healthcare because of their parents' choices.  now guess who foots the bill for that?  the answer is everyone else because it is the "rob/steal from others to give to the poor" folks who refuse to plan and focus on their responsibilities!  for those who don't agree, look research socialism.  so i guess if you fit into the "give me, steal from others" category, you love Obama and what he stands for.  If you ignore the facts, you can say eight more years of Bush and stay innorant!
  • Linda
    I'M 63 AND I AM NOT GOING TO GROW OLD UNDER MARXISM, PERIOD.
  • My fellow Americans.  The right to vote is a precious thing for whom many have shed their blood, including our current brave men and women in Iraq.  Casting your vote in vain would be a shameful waste.

    Vote FACTS, not feelings
    Vote ISSUES, not distractions
    Vote POCKETBOOKS, not personalities!!!!!

    To this proud independent, the choice is clear.  Obama/Biden 08


    Carrie in TX (Sent Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:58 PM)
     
    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/...
  • The question of this election year is simply this:
    Are we doing better off as a nation?  The answer is no, and McCain with his long years in congress is part of the problem, not the solution.  Linda, go vote for more of the same if you want....that decision is yours.
  • Linda
    TOO BAD YOUR DAD WAS A DROP OUT.. MINE WASN'T.  HE WAS GOING TO BAYLOR UNIVERSITY.  HOWEVER, HE JOINED THE ARMY AIR CORP, AND  AND SINCE HE WAS ALREADY A PILOT; THAT IS WHAT HE DID DURING WWII.  DOESN'T MAKE HIM BETTER, OR WORSE THAN THE DROPOUT WHO WAS INFANTRY OR WHATEVER.

    FRANKLY I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU PEOPLE CONSIDER WHITE TRASH.. HOW SAD, THAT YOU THINK SO LITTLE OF YOURSELF.

    THANKSBUT NO THANKS, I AM NOT VOTING FOR A MARXIST.  AND THAT IS WHAT OBAMA IS.  READ ABOUT HIM, AND PLEASE READ HIS BOOKS.  AND FOR GOD'S SAKES REVIEW SOME OF HIS SPEECHES.  AND TRY TO PICK UP SOME OF THE NUANCES OF WHAT HE SAYS.
  • "underneath all the glitz and noise  (and lipstick)- they are still lying."

    -and enough stupid people will believe it to elect another disaster on our once great nation.
  • toe
    sounds like they are going to need a few more cases of lipstick to me.
    and guess what?
    underneath all the glitz and noise  (and lipstick)- they are still lying.
  • toe
    Let's see, McCain's official campaign people- therefore McCain himself - have lied about Palin's past, her known earmarks and pork are a matter of public record, her plane that did NOT sell on EBay, the cook that she claims to have fired but still cooks for the Governor - with a different title, ... they have used music in their productions that they were not entitled to use- (Heart, Jackson Brown, Mellencamp, and Van Halen specifically) unauthorized uses of popular music represents a violation of federal copyright law ... the McCain campaign- in an ad that featured Katie Couric not only misrepresented about whom Katie was speaking, the McCain people had no permission to place her likeness in a political ad...YouTube was forced to pull the ad but McCain is still leaving it on his website...apparently McCain feels he is above the law... sort of like his buds, George Bush and Dick Cheney.
    hmmmm.... Tell me again,  where is this "change" McCain claims.
  • Linda
    I am a proud vet of the 82nd ABN Division.....1st Bn ABN/508th Inf
    I was born at Ft. Bragg......my dad was a Special Forces Officer......
    I received the Combat Infantry Badge.......
    My Dad was a High school dropout, joing the Army in 1944......poor white trash.  It's just a fact that he helped by bettering himself, yet still.....that was his roots.  As Americans, we  have to grow up and quit being so damn'd sensitive.
  • Linda
    David, there's only one reason that we are able to sit here and express our real opinions, is because of my  my Dad, my husband, my son (with 80 years of service amongst them) and others like them.  all are degreed, but were military much of their lives.  I don't agree that we deserve to be called white trash.  Even those of us who aren't degreed are well read.
    I don't consider us bitter, clinging to guns and religion folks.  further i consider us well traveled; considering that all of us have lived in 5 foreign countries, one U.S. protectorate and in all amongst us 20 different states over many years. 

    I don't mind so much that Heather Mallick attacked one of our politicians.  Our own press does enough of that; but I do take issue with 
    being called names.

    Heather Mallick's rant degenerated to a ramble which sounded like someone muttering in a padded cell.
  • "....Heat and Smoke...."?  Toe & I are just bringing some factual information, that's all.  And that my friend is what a reasoned response is.
    It's like pointing out how that republicans seems prone to repeating falsehoods in the hopes of making those same falsehoods take on an air of truth........Like Obama is a Muslim, or he'll raise your taxes etc.
    .......or that if one believes corporations should share the real burden of supporting our nation, that they are socialists.
    But EVERYONE needs to pay their fair share of the tax burden to pay off this war that John McCain wants to continue to the tune of $10 Billion/month, which is why Obama said:
    ".... What I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness. The top 50 hedge fund managers made $29 billion last year--$29 billion for 50 individuals. Those who are able to work the stock market and amass huge fortunes on capital gains are paying a lower tax rate than their secretaries. That's not fair."
  • Kimberly
    I can't believe how fast this campaign has gotten dirty!!! Now all the news media outlets can talk about is a "pig comment"!!! Its amazing to me that when McBlame says the SAME comment in regards to Hillary's health care proposal NO ONE accused him of calling her a pig. But of course, NOW when OBAMA says the same comment, he's accused of calling Palin a pig. YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!! Is this actually the behavior of rational mature adults or are we back in jr. high school? I just watched FOX/fix news and they're actually implying that YES Obama meant to call her a pig while they convienently ommitted McShame's same comment about Hillary. Now, that doesn't surprise me at all of course since everyone knows how slanted they are to RepubliCONs. But now every other media outlet is hopping on the same bandwagon. Lets be fair people!

    It seems to me we should have one rule. If Obama was calling Palin a pig, then McCain was calling Hillary Clinton one. If McCain wasn't, then Obama wasn't. End of story. Focus on the friggin' issues and leave this childish crap on the playground!!
  • Kimberly
    I gotta tell ya...I'm starting to worry about the mentality of people in this country. When you ask Repubs just WHAT it is they like about Palin, I hear stuff like..."she hunts, she fishes, she shops at Wal-mart just like regular moms, and she's REAL." "She could've had an abortion but gave birth to a DS baby anyway." "She comes from a small town & understands small town values" But when you ask them what policies she supports that they approve of, all I get is, "she wants drilling & she's against abortion". THAT'S IT!!! With all thats facing this country after 8yrs under Bush, the fact that she bring NOTHING to the table other than a beauty queen smile, the ability to read a prepared speech & a questionable record as mayor/govenor (which somehow qualifies her to potentially lead our nation). Since the RNC, she's made a few campaign stops with McCain, where she's trotted out to make a 15min version of the speech she already gave at the RNC (complete with the same lies I might add) then MCain takes over and repeats HIS same lies about Obama raising their taxes and these people cheer like the sheep they are. Of course, when the camera pans the crowd, you see mostly older white men & women (the kind that don't use the internet to check the facts & get most of their information from Fox/Fix news & Bill O'Reilly.) Don't believe me?
    Check this out: http://foxattacks.com/
    We are being cheated people. Cheated out our 1 chance to REALLY make a difference in our children's lives. McCain talks about change then turns around and hires Steve Schmidt to head his campaign. The same man who ran Bush's campaign in '00. The same man who was behind the smear campaign against MCCAIN in SC by suggesting his adopted black daughter was really his illegitimate love child!!! Does that matter to McShame? HELL NO!!! Its all about winning now and ALL the stops are being pulled out. Lets face it, at his age (72) this is his last shot at the Oval office and he's going to do EVERYTHING to acheive his goal. Even run the kind of negative campaign he swore he wouldn't. Even if it means using Karl Rove behind the scenes. After all, "Bush's Brain" did such a great job beating him before, didn't he???
    And now, after compaining that the media is "picking on" poor Palin for daring to question her qualifications as VP & not being "properly deferential", she's finally going to give an interview to Charlie "softball" Gibson. We've got less than 56 days to get past the hype and find out where she stands on the issues people!!!! And THIS is probably the best we're going to get??? Lemme tell you something Charlie, you better not screw this up. The lives of millions of people and of their children are literally in YOUR hands. Your reputation and that of ABC news is on the line and I guarantee that if there's even a WHIFF of pandering, there is going to be deafening howls of outrage directed at you!!! We will NOT accept softball questions or pre-prepared questions already approved by the RepubliCONs (led by Karl Rove.) Matter of fact, I think its time to take this criminal out of the equation don't you?!?
    http://sendkarlrovetojail.com
    Wake up people...Our country needs you to make the right choice! Eight is Enough!!!!!!
  • TKPedersen
    Jack, after the heat and smoke of Toe and David, I appreciate some light.  Thank you.  As I have said before, invective and emotion are no substitute for reasoned response.  The funny thing is that some  liberals cannot appreciate the viceral response to the attacks... the desperation of the left is amazing to me.  I had not thought that their position had been discounted, just that there was someone who now could articulate the conservative side.  You would thing from the response that the american way was under attack.  I feel that the liberal agenda is mislabeled...it is so far left as to be considered by me (admittedly an old fogy) to be socialist.  Obama has told me that he is going to increase by 50% to 100% the capital gains tax...as someone on social security with investments that add to that so I can live, he is increasing my taxes by as much as 60% as a minimum.  I am not rich.  If Obama is elected, I will be much poorer.
  • Jack
    If Palin can take on the responsibilities of being a mother to five children and a governor, she is more qualified than Obama.  I agree with most of her stances, and think she is a maverick for standing up for issues she believes in. 

    If Obama had actually voted more than "present" over 100 times, he would at least have something to stand for and a proven record.  Republicans can't look at a long record of his voting and criticize it too much because there isn't one.  No candidate is perfect but this is ridiculous!  When you want to raise capital gains taxes, it affects everyone's 401K plans and not just the so-called "rich."  If you live in NY or certain parts of CA and have kids, $250k is not a lot of money due to the higher cost of housing and other necessities.  I want to keep my money and don't want the government to decide who to give it to.  If the liberals want to spread their wealth around, it is a free country and they should give as much of it away as they wish.   

    Obama's tax plan will NOT work.  It is economics 101.  If you tax corporations, small businesses and those who make over $250k a year, it will be devestating to an already stressed economy.  The businesses will pass the taxes to the consumers by the way of higher prices.  If that doesn't make up for the taxes, companies will lay off people.  People who make over $250k a year are usually the employers!  In addition, companies have the option of closing up shop and operating from overseas.  Is that what we want?  How does this help?  I know small business owners who are talking about this already.  Closing loopholes for big businesses will ensure companies are paying their fair amount of taxes but no more or no less. 

    I am sick and tired of the democrats saying "we don't want eight more years of Bush."  According to the polls, most people don't.  So the stance is tiring and boring.  McCain and Palin are not Bush so get over it.  There are past presidents on both sides that have failed this country.  To compare them is not productive.  In my opinion Bush did not follow the Republican bylaws.  I think McCain and Palin will stand up for conservative values.  This is exactly what this country needs.  If liberals want to start comparing people in government, we can start by talking about the Congress and what the democrats promised and what they have not done.  Well i take that back, while some Republicans were working during the vacation and wanted Congress to be called back in session, the democrats refused.  I guess they needed a much needed vacation.  We know how hard they have been working to "get things done"-not! 

    Why do people think entitlement programs are the answer.  There are people out there (including me) who have had hardships and have endured more than most people could imagine.  Did I ask the government to give me a free ride?  No!  People should take responsibility for their own actions and the children they choose to have.  However, it does take planning and thought. 

    Everyone should be entitled to healthcare as long as they are willing to pay reasonable prices for it.  The healthcare system needs to operate as John McCain mentioned--in a free market.  However, laws can be passed to help protect citizens and a ban on lobbyists and the "good ole boy" network activities should be passed.  This would lower costs.  As we all know, letting the government manage any program is a big mistake.  ha!  i think that is a no-brainer!  
     
    I read so many nasty personal comments and insults going back and forth and wonder why we can't just discuss things.  This is what the parties are doing in Washington and why our country has the problems it has.
  • Toe, nice point!  (and you all worry if Obama is wearing a flag pin.)
  • toe
    it's a matter of public record:


    The founder of the Alaska Independence Party -- a group that has been courted over the years by Sarah Palin, and one her husband was a member of for roughly seven years -- once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed the American flag as a "damn flag."
    The AIP founder, Joe Vogler, made the comments in 1991, in an interview that's now housed at the Oral History Program in the Rasmuson Library at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.
    "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP

    <><><><>
    and you all worry if Obama is wearing a flag pin.
  • Linda&TK.......
    "........The extreme left attempts to destroy Gov. Palin are actually getting her more votes and more admiration......."
    Right now, many Americans want to imagine someone like the Sarah Palin that is presented to them by the Republican talking heads really exists.  Hopefully these people will see the REAL Sarah Palin, who is a liar and a fraud.  The Republican ploy may work.  Being a christian, i suppose many people will just assume she is telling the truth about herself and her policies.  But the facts are starting to come out about what really happend with respect to the "Bridge to Nowhere" that she was for, before she was against it.  Will Americans ignore her lies?  Maybe.
    Linda, i did read the CBC piece.  Over the top?
    "White trash — not trailer trash, that's something different — is rural, loud, proudly unlettered (like Bush himself), suspicious of the urban, frankly disbelieving of the foreign, and a fan of the American cliché of authenticity."
    This is a fairly good assessment, i must say.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but if we weren't so sensitive, we as Americans could see ourselves as we truly are.  We, as a country need to grow up and shed out childish preoccupation with being #1.
  • toe
    TK- your statement:

    "He says he will reach across party lines; he hasn’t in the time he has been in the Senate" 
    A complete  LIE.  Please go check your facts.  I will take you seriously when you are able to be honest.
    You seem to have access to a computer- go look at Obama's record.
    It's all public- in fact I have placed them all here in a different thread. 
    Bills, ammendments, and sponsors which included both republican and democrats.

    Frankly, if I were you, I'd worry about your candidate who claims to support the men and women of the military but somehow manages to vote against them every time.  BUT, and here's the killer- after the bill passed... he took the credit!!

    I'd worry a lot more about your candidate who claims to be against pork and earmarks then brings in as his VP choice, the piggy of them all in Sarah Palin! 

    I'd worry a whole lot more about someone who claims he knows how to "bring change" because for nearly 30 years in Washington, he has not made one step in this direction - in fact, when given the chance to be "a maverick"- did a 180 on issues he had supported because it "offended the conservative base".  Wow.  And you admire this.   

    I'll take "bring in the brains" over "bring on the guns!" every single day. 
  • toe
    Tell The Media to Call Sarah Palin a Serial Liar
     It is now thoroughly documented that Sarah Palin supported the $398 million "Bridge to Nowhere" when she ran for Governor in 2006, even though Congress cancelled the earmark in 2005.
    She only opposed it in September 2007 after her final efforts to get $329 million more from Congress failed. Yet she kept the partial funding from Congress!
    So when Palin repeatedly says "I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks' on that bridge to nowhere," she is repeatedly lying.
    It is long past time for reporters to call Sarah Palin exactly what she is - a serial liar.
  • Linda
    Great comments TK.  I happen to agree.

    Some won't but there it is.. the great American debate.
  • TKPedersen
    After reading all of the preceding posts, I have to express my appreciation.  I recently left an MSNBC newsgroup after being swamped by the vitriolic and coarse language.  I enjoy a good, measured debate. I even enjoy an impassioned and sometimes not entirely logical argument.  But vitriol is just another way of admitting failure to have a good argument, and swearing is just an admission that your vocabulary is inadequate.  Now…on the subject:
     
    The extreme left attempts to destroy Gov. Palin are actually getting her more votes and more admiration.  People in checkout lines around me, and sitting new me in restaurants are fed up with the attacks, and they hold Obama to answer for that…it is hurting his credibility.  From my point of view, I enjoy someone who has acted, instead of hiding her head, when she saw something she didn’t like.  And if she were my governor, I hope she would go for every dollar of federal money that was available: she should go for every earmark that is available (not to do so, puts her state’s citizens at a disadvantage to all other states); to get the money for the bridge to nowhere and then spend it on more deserving projects in her state is just good management.
     
    I cannot trust the promises of Sen. Obama.  He says he will reach across party lines; he hasn’t in the time he has been in the Senate…in fact he reneged on a promise made to Sen. McCain to do so.  He promises much, but has no track record on which to decide if he will actually try, much less accomplish, his promises.  Come back after your 6 year term and let us see if your actions prove your promises.
     
    Sen. Obama has chosen Sen. Biden as his running mate, arguably as a support on foreign policy.  Do you really think that if a 3am phone call comes in, that Obama will say, “Hold everything…we have to wait until Joe gets here to make a decision”?  And Biden’s track record of decisions and opinions on foreign policy has not always been quite correct.  And how can any of us forget the snide smile on his face whenever speaking to those with whom he disagrees.  I certainly don’t want him negotiating for us.  Obama?  When explaining poker to me, my father said, “When you get to the table, look for the mark.  If you can’t find him, you’re it.”  I don’t think Obama can negotiate with Iran, and I really don’t want him negotiating with Putin…we’d have 1 year to learn Russian (I’ve tried…it is not easy.).
     
    I don’t like all of what McCain does, but I can predict the future…and it is safe.  With my family and my future, I cannot at this time gamble on Obama.
  • Linda
    David, now read this  from Toronto , and see if you don't think this is over the the top.


    cbc(.)ca/canada/story/2008/09/05/f-vp-mallick
  • Palin may have said “Thanks, but no thanks” on the Bridge to Nowhere, though not until Congress had pretty much killed it already. But that was a sharp turnaround from the position she took during her gubernatorial campaign, and the town where she was mayor received lots of earmarks during her tenure.-Annenberg Political fact check

    Thanx Linda!  This was a useful link
  • KSpopulist
    Hi friends, Pastor Steve again. I wanted to say that I owe all of you an apology. I came to this site in the hopes that I could be a part of a conversation that would focus on traditional, conservative values during the course of a Presidential election. I thought I would find fellow Christians here. I thought the discussion would be about issues, and the possible outcome of the election. I was wrong.

    I sat with 35 young people last night in our church. Our average attendance for Mon. night youth group is more around 16-17, but we were having a discussion about the election. Every one of these kids is saved. Every one of these kids has dedicated their lives to Christ. Every one of these kids is on the honor roll at their respective schools, involved in sports, or band, and about a third are members of our choir.  About half have committed to Christian universities. In short, they're just great. What I found out last night was surprising: these kids couldn't have a discussion about the election without resorting to name calling, cut-downs, and near violence. I broke off the meeting an hour and a half early, and told them all to go home. Then I sat alone and prayed about what had happened. What had happened is that when my youth group goes home, they log on. They visit blogs, and participate. And they see what I see: insults, trash talk, people claiming to be Christian then punching below the belt. This is why they can't have an adult conversation about an adult issue. They haven't seen any adult behavior! I'm sorry, I'd love to be a part of this community, but I can't. As a Christian, I can't participate in sophomoric "debate". I would, however, like to point out that the Constitution came under attack under Wilson. And that being a vegan, while misguided, does not equate one to being unpatriotic. And that it's spelled "Goebbels", not "Goeggels". If you're going to attempt to call someone a NAZI, which is completely reprehensible, a spell check should be in order.
  • Linda
    read the Annenberg Political fact check website

    topic - sliming Palin 

    it's an org, not a .com by the way
  • To borrow a phrase....."there you go again....", (who was that?)
    By simply repeating something doesn't lend it any truthfulness.  Whining, no.....trying to encourage an intelligent response?  Well that may be a bit closer to the truth.
    And truth or lack there of seems to be the main counter-point of Republican arguments, kinda like Joseph Goeggels(Nazi propaganda minister, and hero of Bill O'Reilly).....that if you repeat something long enough, it will take on truth.
  • Linda
    David, stop whining.
  • jayzee&Linda.....
    is this the best you can do?  kinda pathetic.
  • jayzee (not the real one)
    Kimberly - lay off the shrooms honey and go back to listening to Bob Dylan.
  • Linda
    For Kimberly:
    GET A GRIP HONEY, YOUR HYSTERIA IS SHOWING.
  • Kimberly
    Awww...poor RepubliCONs..You mounted your high horses when us "liberal God-mocking Bible burners" picked on your poor hockey mom for daring to question her credentials for the 2nd seat. "Of course she's qualified!" you raged. "She's had 5 kids so she knows how to multi-task" "She understands family values & can shoot and field dress a moose" "She lives next to Russia so she knows foreign policy" Well...well..well...She's turning out to be QUITE the expert on the economy huh? Your pitbull better start cramming & actually LEARN something more than where the teleprompter is when she debates Biden or he's gonna mop the floor with her!!! Then again, the only thing you idiots give a damn about is the fact that she's a rabid anti-abortionist that believes Eve came from one of Adam's ribs because God thought he needed a playmate. I can just picture her flopping around speaking in tongues in the middle of the UN or Parliment because the Lord touched her... Too bad winning means more than "Country First" to you people. You're all just pawns of Rove & his kind.
  • UC....
    you know i've given my health in the service of this country, I eat red meat, and if I ever see a code pink member spitting on a vet, no matter the vets political persuasion, I'll put the bitch down(with words).
    Obama has flaws, he panders somewhat to appeal to a broader base, but not like McCain did on his abortion stance and selling out to the oil lobby.
  • Kimberly
    Lets face it...We all know Charlie Gibson will be given a list of questions about stupid crap when he interviews her later this week...Inane stuff about how she likes to make mooseburgers & coach horse hockey...What I can't wait to see is her in the debate against Biden! Those glasses of hers are only going to magnify that deer in the headlights look!!! Tell that "pitbull with lipstick" to put her big girl pants on and show the country she's not going to pick up her toys and leave when its RUSSIA "picking on her". Go ahead & try to keep her under wraps RepubliCONs...It just makes us wonder even more what you're hiding ....
  • toe
    Is it any wonder that the McCain people are keeping her away from interviews, "Meet the Press",  and having her mouth nothing but the "stump" talking points they have written for her?
  • toe
    Gov. Sarah Palin made her first potentially major gaffe during her time on the national scene while discussing the developments of the perilous housing market this past weekend.
    Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."
    Economists and analysts pounced on the misstatement, saying it demonstrated a lack of understanding about one of the key economic issues likely to face the next administration.
    "You would like to think that someone who is going to be vice president and conceivable president would know what Fannie and Freddie do," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. "These are huge institutions and they are absolutely central to our country's mortgage debt. To not have a clue what they do doesn't speak well for her, I'd say."
  • Guest

    Toe/David,


    your leftist/pessimistic attitudes do nothing to stimulate this conversation. You bitch and complain about Bush; praise Obama as if he has NO flaws; say that McCain/Palin are just politicians who know how to manipulate the system (aren’t all of them); make childish comments about NOT being proud of the US.  What a load of crap; and I don’t think anyone really cares how you feel about this country.


    The difference between you and I David/Toe; is that I love this country no matter who is in office and I would give my life to ensure that my little ones don’t have to live in a similar society as our friends in Israel.  Yeah, I bitch sometimes too, but you two are over the top.


    You know nothing about patriotism and your attacks on Christianity are getting old/outdated. I really don’t care if you are an atheist/leftist/socialist.  Let me guess, are you also a vegan/member if PETA/Code Pink too?  It sounds like it; and you are the last person in the world I would want deciding on the next president. 


    Toe/Walters - Tell me what you have done to make this country better; and protesting at the latest Cindy Sheehan rally doesn’t count.


    Urban out.

  • Toe,
    This disrespect to our constitution May have begun under Nixon.....and I have watched as a police state much like nazi Germany descend upon this once great nation.....  to wit, the targeting of independent reporters @ the republican convention.
    Hell no, I am NOT Proud to be an American, where the constitution is used as ass wipe by those that pander to corporate interests and christian theocrats.  Palin/McCain aren't Patriots, just politicians that understand how to manipulate the system.
  • toe
    David,  George Bush is what happened to the Constitution.  Oddly, there are individuals here who actually admit to having voted for him...TWICE.
    You have people in this forum who stand on their rooftops to declare "America- home of the free!!!" yet these very same people have not the least objection to taking away my rights or yours.  They rant and rave about foreign lands being ruled by theocracy and how horrible this is- yet want to insert "christian dogma and scripture" into our laws as the expense/ridicule/ of all other religions in this country. 
    Under the guise of being "patriotic"- these same people label anyone who disagrees with the current president as "aiding the enemy".  
    Let me make it perfectly clear- anyone who willfully and purposely ignores the wrongs in this country deserve more of the same- the enemy is not some religion you neither know nor understand, the enemy is not a culture that is foreign to us,  the enemy is not some liberal who reads books that you don't approve of,  or the atheist who does not believe in your bible- the enemy is you.
  • Toe,
    What has happened to the country I swore an oath to defend? I swore to defend our CONSTITUTION. And this silly woman would piss on it.  Shame on those who support her efforts to circumvent what I fought for, just so we lower taxes on corporations(while the rest of us continue to pay the same amount).  It is so sad to see this once great nation descending ever deeper into the gutter with the willing acceptance of some.....
  • KSpopulist
    The way I read and understood that is thus: You're using two different arguments to try to make one point. The Wasilla Public Library is not the same as the Wasilla Public School Library. True, if it were, removal of reading material would violate the law, but not only did it not happen, nowhere in Trees v Pico does it state that mere suggestion is a violation of the law. I checked into the claim that she worked for the 527 group "Ted Stevens Excellence In Public Service Inc.", and what I found was disappointing. I have long been a fan of Sen. McCain for his stance against these groups, it's one of the reasons I was glad to see him nominated. Still, you vote the top of the ticket, and he has a wonderful record in the Senate. He's worked hard to get rid of these 527's, which seem to exist to distract the voter from the issues. Sen. McCain has based his campaign on the issues, and as President, he'll work with anyone willing to help get the country back on track.
  • toe
    McClatchy Newspapers
    Friday, September 05, 2008

    WASILLA, Alaska — Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so.
    According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn’t fully support her and had to go.
  • toe
    “Local school boards may not remove books from school library shelves simply because they dislike the ideas contained in those books …”
    — U.S. Supreme Court in Board of Education, Island Trees School District v. Pico (1982)
  • toe
  • KSpopulist
    Where is the example of an "all about me" attitude? And historically, we actually DO do book banning in America. If this is a free country, we should be free to not have to subject ourselves from  material that undermines God's message and encourages a culture of subversive ideas. And where is the proof that Gov. Palin was ever involved in a 527 group? And aren't they legal anyway?  And wasn't the debt the city accrued the result of projects that were approved before she took office?  And, for the record, a number of the bills Sen. Obama co-sponsored had 40+ other senators attached to the bill as well. That's essentially like claiming responsibility for not supporting torture.
  • toe
    we do not do book banning and book burning in America.  sarah joined entrenched washington by spearheading the 527 group for sen. ted stevens and requesting over $27MILLION in earmarks for the hamlet of wasilla as mayor there- she also , after inheriting a debt-free city there- upon leaving after 6 years as mayor- the city was $22 million in debt!

    if faith-based education is your choice- don't expect me to pay for it by way of "vouchers"- the public school system is free for everyone- the fact that republican administrations have eliminated funding and ignored the needs of our public schools is criminal.  your answer?  walk away.

    really- it gets so tiresome- you people with your "it's all about me" attitudes. 
    have you no shame?!
  • KSpopulist
    I'm simply saying that the media should give equal coverage to the sacrifice her son has made for his country as they do for her daughter's sins. God and God alone will hold Bristol Palin accountable for her actions, not some reporter looking to get famous.  I also believe that media personalities like Bill O'Reilly should drop the issue all together as well. You can't go on TV one night and condemn the parents for their child's actions then praise the parents of another child's becasue they vote the same way you do. The Bible teaches us differently.  As far as her record as mayor is concerned, I think her stance on faith-based education and her valiant effort to remove harmful reading material from the local library should be considered in regard to the positive judgments she made while in office. She also bucked the entrenched Washingotn establishment as governor of Alaska. And Sen. McCain has two sons participating in our efforts in Iraq, not one.
  • Rita Modrak
    Sarah Palin's speech was full of inaccuracies. "Sceptical Republican", you'd do better to not believe everything you hear.

    From Palin’s convention speech:
    “We've all heard his dramatic speeches before devoted followers.  And there is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform - not even in the state senate.”

    Her statement is false and the speechwriter who wrote it is either ignorant or intentionally lying.  The library of congress site lets you search the congressional record by name of senator or representative, and see exactly what bills they have introduced or sponsored.  You will see that Obama is a sponsor on 129 bills currently before Congress, some of which he either authored or co-authored, included bills on ethics reform. McCain’s name is on 38 bills..

    Fact check this at:
    Library of Congress link: http://thomas.loc.gov/

    Let’s at least begin the discussion on a truthful basis.
  • simonesdad2008
    KSpopulist,

    You sound reasonable and I've eaten at Jack Stack in Overland Park.  Outstanding beef ribs!  You can't have it both ways though.  If you mention a kid because it's positive and helpful to your campaign you can't turn around and say family is off limits or private or whatever.  The man who is "reluctant" to talk about his POW experience (not!) actually has been rather restrained about his kids (almost like they don't exist).  He has a son serving and you don't really hear about that.  Your kids are your kids for better or worse.  Whether you are a soldier or a knocked up teen, it is what it is. 

    It sounds like you are leaning republican but the Grandma is giving you pause.  Trust your gut.  If she can disparage community organizers, faith based, selfless, grassroots Americans, then you know she cares more about political cheap shots than the good work you do.  It's ironic that you reinforce the views she has on abstinence in your community service.  You should be on the same side but she has zero respect for your work and let the whole country know it in no uncertain terms.  As I said, trust your gut.
  • KSpopulist
    In addition, the way that the discussion concerning Bristol Palin and her child is being framed is all wrong. To declare it a "decision", which is another word for "choice", only fuels the argument for choice. God's law clearly states that having a child out of wedlock is an abomination, and while I will pray for her soul, she will be condemned for her actions and inability to adhere to God's law. The liberal media needs to refrain from mentioning it all together, as it will only hurt the campaign if anyone decides to bring the actual Will of God into the argument, and I pray they won't. If we must talk about any of her children, we should discuss Track Palin, and his brave decision to fight for our country in what has become our Crusade.
  • KSpopulist
    I was completely with Gov. Palin in her magnificent speech up until her slam on community organizers. As a youth pastor at a thriving church in Overland Park, Kansas, we encourage young people in our congregation to get involved on a personal level in their communities, as well as establish outreach missions abroad. Because of the efforts of our local church community, we have placed abstinence only education on the ballot, collected tens of thousands in donations for our mission projects, and have started a scholarship fund to help two of our young people a year with their tuition. To belittle the achievements of all of us that work tirelessly to make our neighborhoods a better place to live and do God's work is shameful. She will have to work to restore my opinion of her.
  • simonesdad2008
    Ladies and Gentlemen, the state of the republican party brought to you by Mr. Clifford Andersen.  He says he's against abortion which is ironic because his very existence is a strong case for it.
  • Clifford Andersen
    I like Sarah Palin alot, but I didn't like this stuff she said about taking care of other people's retarded kids.  I don't want to be taxed to pay for other people's kid's medical problems.  That's socialism.  Here in my town, they spend way more on all the retarded kids schooling and then there is no money for the football team or basketball team.  Why do these retarded kids even go to a school?  Its a waste of money.  And I know that they spend lots of tax money on medical care.  If some older woman wants to have a baby then she can go ahead and pay with her own money if the baby is born retarded.  I am against abortion, don't get me wrong, it is just plain wrong and not Republican to make other people pay for your retarded kid.
  • toe
  • The best line in this year's Republican convention came from Mike Huckabee. Confronting all the gossip about Palin's lack of experience he stated the following fact:

    *Sarah Palin got more votes running for mayor of Wasila, Alaska, than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States.

    In fact, Biden got some 9000 votes in this year's Democratic primary. (By the way, Hillary Cliton, who was passed over for the VP slot, got 18 million).

    And Biden has run for president before, in 1987. Most people have forgotten (or never knew) about Biden's earlier run, but The Economist unceremoniously reminds us in the August 28 edition. In that race, Biden not only borrowed a speech from Niel Kinnock, the British Labor leader, and presented it as his own. He even plagiarized Kinnock's life story, claiming to be the first in his family to go to college and that his ancestors worked in a coal mine. Of course, when this came out, Biden's campaign collapsed like a house of cards.

    You've got to wonder when and how Biden will blow up in this race. It could get quite spectacular.

    Apart from the Huckabee kick, Sarah Palin's own speech was quite a ride. She went after Obama in a way no one has done before, exposing the hypocrisy and self-aggrandizement. A couple of good ones off the top of my head:

    - Obama has written two auto biographies but not authored a single significant bill
    - "We prefer people who don't speak to us one way when they're in Scranton and then in another way when they're in San Francisco" (a dig at Obama's "bitter" comments)
    - "Here's a candidate who can give an entire speech about the war in Iraq without once mentioning the word Victory, except when he talks about his own campaign".
    - "I guess a mayer is sort of like a community organizer, except you have actual responsibilities".

    The reason why the media and the left wing bloggers are going so hard after Palin is because she's dangerous. They all expected an Obama coronation in November, with the elections a minor nuisance on the path to glory. If you saw the Obama Europe tour earlier this year, you may even have thought he'd skipped the US presidential elections all together and was running for world president.

    But now this woman comes along and throws a wrench in the plans. Palin is something very unusual in this campaign: She comes across as genuine, a fighter who has taken unpopular positions, fought corruption in her own party, and thrown out incumbents. She connects extremely well with ordinary folks. So clearly the left needs to discredit her achievements. They're throwing the kitchen sink at her and is looking to see what sticks.

    The real danger to Obama's campaign here is that Palin is about to reveal what has been the case the whole time: Obama is not the agent of change he proclaims. In his first important decision as candidate, he picked Biden, the 36-year Washington insider, as his sidekick.

    And looking at Obama's record, nothing points to the kind of post partisanship or change he talks about all the time. In fact, he completely squandered the opportunity to clean up Chicago politics when he was a state senator (something that would have provided real benefits but also earned him enemies in his own party). He never stood up to the old boys network in Chicago politics, and he has no achievements at all to talk about in the US senate. (By the way, he's been a member of the US senate for 3 1/2 years, half of which (at least) was spent campaigning for president. So I guess that gives him about 1 1/2 years of actual "experience" in the senate.)

    The democrats are in trouble and they know it. If Obama loses the freshness and "change" veneer you've got to wonder what is left of his campaign.
  • Thank you Toe!
  • toe
    @Mr UC, you said:
    "And if you detest "doing my work for me", i must ask:
    WHY ARE YOU HERE?"

    as a matter of fact, I have already answered this previously- but for those of you who need to be told more than once:  when non-factual  "information"  is put here as fact, I will call you on it ...every single time.   if you base your "opinions" based upon lies - which have been placed here even by your host- I have called you on this as well.   the only way you (the collective "YOU") are going to be able to make an educated decision is to educate yourselves.  if you insist upon taking some "talking head's impression of what they thought they heard- rather than listening for YOURSELF the entire speech-  and formulating your own impressions, you will continue to be at the mercy of those who will take advantage of your ignorance.
  • ML Smith
    Sarah Palin is a shark, but her party has already been "tanked," because the country wants nothing to do with "more of the same." 
    I trust her about as much as I do Obama, and the two would have made perfect running mates. 

    Get ready, America. Soon, you will be riding your camels to work and the only concern you will have about America will be it's new name. What language will it be spelled in?
  • OlTimeYankeeLiberal
    I find it disheartening that religious conservatives have placed such hope in the nomination of Sarah Palin. Unfortunately they have been put on the receiving end of a calculated and strategic move by the McCain campaign, orchestrated by the cynical, winner take all proteges of Karl Rove who are running his campaign. The 'pitbull with lipstick' was solely selected to energize the conservative base. If elected, Ms. Palin will have lots of time to attend her children's hockey games, consult with her lawyers, field dress a moose, and knit booties for her grandchild; because regardless of all the hope placed in her by the conservative right, Ms. Palin will be on a very short lease in a McCain administration, and she won't be making 'executive' decisions. The model of the Cheney vice presidency will be laid aside for the historically normative one of executive branch clerk and figurehead at Congress. Policy will be made by McCain over lunch in the Oval office,consulting with his first and favored choice, Joe Lieberman. The 'maverick' has dally-upped, and is acting crazy as a fox. Despite my politics which most here disagree with, as an American I hate the ruthless manipulation of any constituency's political aspirations for the expediencies of politics.
  • ptfairfax
    Why won't this let me post a link to a video?  What are you afraid of?  Call me a dum*as* but this site won't allow video links to be posted.


    President Obama is coming!  We got the GOP whipped.
  • ptfairfax
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?v...


    Okay- here you go. Explain this one you hypocrites.


    I'm starting to get used to the name "President Obama" lmao
  • Moonbat Detective
    Just because you are devoid of thought and use names to insult me, you are still the chief Barking Mad Moonbat we all though existed but never saw.  Thank you, David.   LOL
  • Moonbat Detective
    David

    AGAIN you show the lib character trait at being WRONG on every turn.  According to your 1st grade insightful theory than you must have O gasams listening that "Often reported but never fact checked" NPR.
  • Yet the dingy detective will most likely believe anything that fox news reports....and that John McCain is an agent of change.
  • Guest
    @ptfairfax

    you can't post flash in the comments, dumb a$$.
  • Moonbat Detective
    When libs actually use their communist rags to prove their point is just too priceless.  Elvis must still be alive because the Star or the National Enquirer says its so. LOL.  Just proves one again that the dems are so messed up.  In a year where this election was to be handed to them they blow up.  How about McCain getting more the 500,000 viewers for his speech than that Obamumist?  I find that quite refreshing.

    P.S.  Now that Obama and Palin have "historic" speeches under their belts, this should automatically qualify her for the VP.  After all, your buddies, primarily Hillary, said that was Hussein's sole qualification.  What a great year to be a conservative!

    See you libs in the White House for the next 16 years!!!!
  • Guest
    Toe - lol, my mistake. I thought it was a typo on your part.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time to research every bit of information about everyone who comments here.  So, your common defense to everything (look it up --- do your research -- blah blah blah) is not realistic for someone who has a busy life like myself.

    And if you detest "doing my work for me", i must ask:

    WHY ARE YOU HERE?
  • YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS
  • ptfairfax
  • “So Sambo beat the bitch!”
    This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama’s win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination.
    http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskan...
  • Moonbat Detective
    "when you have nothing- you feel it necessary to attack my personal life"

    Toe, you are the exact prototype of a mixed up lib.  You nitwits are attacking Palin's family with blatent insults and smears and you are outraged when someone calls you names?  Boo hoo.  If its good enough for you moonbats its fair game for all.  LOL
  • toe
    no, Mr. UC. Berklee- 
    Look it up. 
    As much as I detest having to do all of your work for you here is a little
    hint:  Berklee is in Boston.

    (good grief, and you people look up to him)
  • Guest
    Toe - you went to UC Berkeley? That explains it all!!
  • laura
    I think Annette Benning and Waren Beatty are Republicans.
  • ptfairfax
    sarahisawsome- here's the way that I see it- 
    If I had a belief system that required my kids to watch 6 hours of television a day, despite the fact that research and common sense supports the notion that it's detrimental to their development, I still have the right to do so.  Correct?


    However, if I held public office and continually supported legislation that required your children to watch 6 hours of television a day, then I would be out of line.  Are you following?


    If I was then put on a national ticket and promised to pass legislation that required all children to watch 6 hours of television a day- and the next day it came out that my son was illiterate and had failed out of high school, then I think it would be a relevant topic of discussion.  


    As a feminist scholar, I am unnerved by the notion that Sarah Palin is a feminist.  Having 2 X chromosomes and full time job does not make one a feminist!  Feminist theory is far reaching and covers a lot of different perspectives, but one basic tenant lies at the heart of it- the idea that women be given the right to determine their own destiny.  This includes the right to vote, the right to remain single and still support themselves, the right to make moral decisions for themselves.  It means that policies, practices, and - yes- laws treat men and women equally.  That is the basic tenant of feminism.  Sarah Palin is not a feminist.


    I respect your choices - please respect mine.
  • toe
    Winston,  perhaps you have not heard of my campaign.  I am also a grandma...and I went to Berklee.  I play air hockey too!
  • Winston Smith
    Go Sarah!  I'll take a hockey grandmom over a Harvard Law Constitutional Scholar any day!  After all, I am an American idiot.
  • toe
    pfft.

    unlike you, i actually know about that which i speak.
    go watch your soaps.  they are about as real as your thinking.
  • Linda
    toe you are pathetic stop whining.
  • Guest
    @sarahisawesome

    Don't mind the libs that come here and smack talk.  They attack me all the time and I laugh.  You are right on (pun intended) and I thank you for contributing.
  • sarahisawesome
    ptfairfax, that is so offensive to me i canot even begin to tell you how i feel about that. we teach our children biblical values which includes abstinence. govenor palin supports this and so does w! and no social services does not visit my house. they dont need to my four children are happy and healthy. poor bristol is all i can say, i hope that the situtation does not cause some people who want to vote for john mccain not to vote for him. govenor palin's values are OUR VALUES!!!!!!!
  • toe
    Linda...what's with the name-calling? 

    when you have nothing- you feel it necessary to attack my personal life- a life about which you know NOTHING.
    you make claims that you cannot back- when asked for an example of your nonsense claim, you refused to do so
  • ptfairfax
    Oh, and sarahisawsome, do you teach your children to get pregnant in high school as well?  Has social services visited you lately?
  • ptfairfax
    sarahisawsome- Have you read the constitution?  


    People like you have scared me into quitting my association with the church.  I no longer even wear the cross that my mother gave me lest anyone think that I'm a wingnut like you.
  • simonesdad2008
    sarahisawesome,

    You are exactly what Father Time and the Grandma are looking for.  I think everything you just said was perfectly legit (even the part about W, even though you are dead wrong) up until you evoked Jesus Christ as favoring an candidate or a party.  Please site the Bible passage that endorses or even mentions democrats or republicans.
  • sarahisawesome
    i for one am totally rejoicing at mccain's pick of govenor palin for vice president. she totally personifies the values that my husband and i have been trying to teach my children. it will be nice for once to have the "real deal" as far as faith guided leadership in the whitehouse... someone who walks the walk. w was a good start but govenor palin seals the deal. "a vote for sarah is a vote for jesus" -- hallelujah!!!!!!
  • simonesdad2008
    I think it's fair to question picking someone who is currently under investigation.  Being under investigation in and of itself is not a crime.  Not even close.  The questionable part is that investigations can dig up embarrassing items.  Emails, testimony, phone records etc.  Investigations can veer off to some unrelated, uncharted waters too.  Given the recent corrupt environment up in Alaska, public officials were used to running wild.  With all due respect to the Alaska press corps, the public servants up there did not feel threatened by public exposure.  No one was operating with the idea that the national media would be coming in and examining their every move.  Even if nothing comes of this investigation there is going to be some evidence gathered that suggests that Mrs. Palin is not exactly the reformer she claims to be.  Last time I checked, using your position of power to influence the outcome of personal matters is Washington Politics 101.  Firing someone when they don't play ball in your favor takes it to another level.  I think she was a tremendous risk, bordering on reckless on McCain's part.  It is fair to question his judgment about her choice and exposing his campaign to her investigation.  She will probably weather the storm but you will see the word "reformer" fade away from Grandma Palin's little bio.  And BTW, why do we want someone who has come out of the most corrupt republican scenario in the country?  Countless times I've heard you cons insinuate or charge that because Barack came out of "Chicago Politics" he is somewhat or outright tainted by its corrupt past.  It seems like all that you attacked Barack with over the last 19 months is embodied in Grandma Palin.  Interesting.
  • Linda
    toe ya ho, get a job.
  • Andrey Osiatynski
    1. I really, really like Palin.
    2. Obama was pretty much “cooked” after refusing to put Clinton on his ticket.
    3. With a “safe” veep choice (Pawlenty, Romney, etc.) McCain would now be waay ahead (3-5 points in the polls = 10-15 points in reality – given the super-sized Bradley Effect of 10+ points I believe is likely in this case.)
    4. By selecting Palin, McCain took a huge risk – enabling the establishment media’s mean-spirited smear-campaign about “mayor of Wasilla – population 9,000 – as a seconds’ notice stand-in for a 72 year old president with history of melanoma.”
    5. Obama’s current 5% advantage in the poll (= at least 5% advantage for McCain – according to my theory) is a reflection of “normal people” (the ones who have real lives and are paying as little attention to politics as possible) are right now little more hesitant Obama than about Palin (whom I think they like) being a heartbeat from the presidency.
    6. Media-sharks will not relent and Palin will have some bad days. With the mass-hysteria the dems can create if there is any “blood in the water” a lot of ordinary people can get even more hesitant about McCain-Palin ticket – enough to make it really interesting on election night.
     
    On the other hand: McCain’s (“hot dog pilot – damn the SAMs”) choice of Palin:
    A. Created a possible setting for a campaign with 2 icons of “real America” (a war hero and a hockey mom) running against the liberal establishment (the media, the chattering classes and the D.C. rot – in that order of amount damage done to the country). That’s a campaign I have been looking forward to – since the first Reagan election.
    B. We might have an “orderly” succession/transition scenario emerging here. (Was I the only one who noticed Palin’s comment about “McCain being the kind of president America needs for the next FOUR years”? IF we are reasonably lucky – with Palin “surviving” the shark-attacks and McCain staying around for at least a couple more years to allow Sarah some “on the job training” for presidency – we might have some really good years (for Republicans and -- much more importantly -- for the Country) between 2012 and 2020.
  • toe
    The GOP's use of the films showing the extreme tragedy of 9-11 was not only in poor taste-to use this to re-inflict this pain for political gain is inexcusable. 
    To mock "a community organizer" is  not only an insult to those in community service- who work to help others help themselves- it is a direct contradiction of the GOP's "theme" of "COUNTRY FIRST"
    Again, the GOP have nothing to say and prove it every day.
    They want to change...yeah, they do... they want to change their sox but wear the same pair of worn out shoes.

    You know, if you put on a clean pair of pants over dirty underwear-it does not change the fact that you still have on dirty underwear.
  • toe
    the highlight of last night's acting performances by the GOP were the people waving McCain hand puppets among the cheering people in the audience. 
    how apropos.

    too funny.
  • toe
    On September 2 and September 3, MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News each dedicated more on-air time -- significantly more in most cases -- to official Republican convention programming during the most-watched portions of their coverage than each channel dedicated to official convention programming during the same times on comparable nights of the Democratic National Convention.

    (so much for the "biased liberal media")

    next?
  • ptfairfax
    I've been thinking about this, and I think I have come up with a simplified way to help conservatives understand the problem that liberals have with Palin.  


    Imagine for a moment that there was a growing new religion in the country: The Tech-ians.  I have been indoctrinated into the religion and it is part of our belief system that children should spend 6 hours a day in front of the television or X box in order for them to do well in school and become good citizens (hey, it's our right to believe what we want).  I run for national office.  I have a record of trying to pass legislation that will give parents no choice but to clock 6 hours of screen time with their kids on a daily basis, and I vow to pursue that policy while I'm in the White House.  


    Meanwhile, it is revealed that one of my children has failed a grade at school and is illiterate (a situation that seriously depreciates his life chances in the future).  However, I still maintain that I will pursue my policies at the national level and possibly force this lack of choice on you and your children.


    Can you see how liberals- who may or may not support abortion but see how it's a personal CHOICE- may have a problem with Palin's candidacy and the fact that her teenage daughter is pregnant?


    I'm simply trying to bring reason here.  Stop for a moment and at least consider understanding how that might make liberal bristle a little and stop being so defensive over your new pseudo messiah-mamma.


    Cheers!  See you at the Obama inauguration!
  • toe
    Mr UC- again, you failed. MIserably.
    What did Media Matters Say?
    You found the cake beautiful, artfully decorated, skillfully baked and the recipe followed with precision making it true to it's origin and delicious so you, lacking any problem with the food,  grumbled about  the plate.
  • "Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade." 
    Palin has close ties to Big Oil. Her inauguration was even sponsored by BP. "

    First, thanks for cutting-and-pasting those Democrat talking points (again). I haven't seen them anywhere else.
    Interesting that the two above points are together. How close are her ties to BP, I wonder? British Petroleum has bought into the Global Warming Religion, hook, line, and sinker, spending more time advertising the evils of their products and the "established fact" of Global Warming than their own product. Yet, they sponsor a heretic. And she doesn't change her position to reflect that of BP? What kind of politician is she?

    "As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library. Palin asked the library how she might go about banning books because some had inappropriate language in them—shocking the librarian, Mary Ellen Baker. "

    And what books did she ban? None. Hmm. Well, what books did she ask to have banned? None. Did she hint that particular book needed to be banned? She didn't? Hmmm.

    "Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools. She's said she will only support abstinence-only approaches."

    More importantly, she supports the teaching of reading, writing and arithmetic. You know, the stuff schools used to teach before they started handing out condoms and showing "An Inconvenient Truth" instead of making sure students could do long division. Why, she's practically a Nazi!

    "Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party. Six months ago, Palin told members of the group—who advocate for a vote on secession from the union—to "keep up the good work" and "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.'"

    Sniff. Sniff. What's that I smell? Desperation? She was friendly with a fringe political group that has no hope of ever getting Alaska to vote on secession from the US? Oh, no, say it's not so! One thing you aren't saying is that she was a member of the AIP--although that was in the talking points a few days ago. Until, like much of what's been flung at Palin, it turned out to be demonstrably false.
    She's a politician that tried to be on good terms with the various political factions in her state. Shocking! Shocking, I say!

    "Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools. She hasn't made clear whether she thinks evolution is a fact."

    She wants to teach Intelligent Design, not Creationism. Creationism is a specific school of thought that the book of Genesis is the literal, inerrant truth about the creation of the world. Intelligent Design is a school of thought that suggests that the amazing complexity of life and the physical sciences is indicative of a much greater intelligence, and tends to side-step the possibility that evolution is the mechanism chosen by an Intelligent Designer to create life. While I do not support teaching ID as science beside biological sciences, it is, without question, not Creationism. Creationism is a code-word for "backwoods, snake-handling, tobacky-chawin' Christian nutburgers". Which is why they are using it to inaccurately describe the Intelligent Design curriculum.

    At least you didn't include the falsehood most commonly included with that talking point: that Sarah Palin wanted to teach Creationism (re: lies) instead of science. She never advocated replacing the science cirriculum with Creationism, although many lists of talking points from the left say just that.

    "Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade." 

    Speaking of teaching religion in the schools. Good for her. I don't believe in the religion of Anthropogenic Global Warming either. And lots of people don't. Because "consensus" is not science, and it's politics and ideology that is driving the First Church of Climate Change, not science. And certainly not historical data! That's not a ding on Palin, that's a reason to be excited. Finally, a politician not so easily won over to the Climate Change Cult.

    I discuss the topic in much greater detail here:

    http://www.kevinwillis.net/viewarticle.php?&artID=199

    And other links, but I'm not going to load up because I'm pretty sure that gets the comment killed.

    "She DID support the Bridge to Nowhere (before she opposed it). Palin claimed that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. But in 2006, Palin supported the project repeatedly, saying that Alaska should take advantage of earmarks "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist."

    Gee, no politician has done that before. Especially no Democrat. Is this an admission that John Kerry was unfit to serve, because of his flip-flops, or is it only when Republicans do it?

    Frankly, there were reasons to support the Bridge to the Alaskan International Airport, and reasons to change her mind (cost, ambition of project vs. benefits, etc, potential overruns, problems with bidding process). A detailed explanation is not as convention-friendly as a soundbite.

    But, keep at it. I know it makes you feel better.
  • Guest

    Toe - let's see ... media matters. these are a bunch of progressive (ultra left) liberals. If they were non partisan and investigated both sides, they would have more credibility. Moveon.org is probably behind this. 

    Media Matters for America     is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.

  • toe
    Numerous print media outlets uncritically reported Gov. Sarah Palin's claim that Sen. Barack Obama "is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform -- not even in the state senate," without noting that Obama has played key roles in the passage of reform legislation at both the federal and state levels, including a bill that McCain co-sponsored and thanked Obama for his work on.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200809040007?f=h_top
  • toe
    I do indeed. Unlike you, I do not make up things.  Nor do I make claims that I cannot back.
    Put up or sit down.
  • Linda
    toe, NO!! I won't be specific. I, unlike you, do not have time to write a damned tome whe I do come in here.everytime  I have a life.  DO you have a life?
  • toe
    Linda,  please be specific about "the left" and "character assasanation"
    who said what about ????  I know that you are not speaking about what I wrote above- these are all documented facts so I will assume that you have something else in mind and await your reply.
  • Guest
    @Voice of the People

    Yeah and all democrats are truthful and forthcoming, right? Sorry you joined the dark side. Semper fi, do or die.
  • Linda
    The left has always used character assasination as a tool to their ends.  Nasty is their name.  I hope they eat it bit time.    Going after Sarah Palin and only telling cherry picked snippets, and some things that are outright lies, is bad enough.  But to pick on a teenager is really an all time low.  The shameless , conscienceless left will do anythign to elect their marxist swine.
  • Voice of the People
    Toe! Well done.

    It amazes me how quickly the Republican party issues attacks against other party candidates, then as convenience dictates, turn the same attacks into "strengths" for their candidates (ala, the Obama inexperience issue. Now, suddenly, Palin's mayoral "experience" trumps community service at the ground level? Appalling).

    I actually laughed at the rhetoric that they wanted "change", since it was their party and politics that put us in the situation we are in now.

    And I'm sorry lofty Conservative thinkers, but the party that produced Abe Lincoln is long gone. Karl Rove and clandestine smears are what I see. I was once a Republican when I was in the military, but it didn't take long to see how poorly they treat veterans.
  • JimGandon
    Finally, Carl Rove and other true partiots are talking some sense about all the liberal media hoopla!
    watch?v=ZMdRSmHxVdo
  • Finally, Carl Rove and other true partiots are talking some sense about all the liberal media hoopla!
  • billy
    Here is something for all the people that feel so sorry for poor old Sarah...

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card
  • toe
    Palin recently said that the war in Iraq is "God's task." She's even admitted she hasn't thought about the war much—just last year she was quoted saying, "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq."
    Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party. Six months ago, Palin told members of the group—who advocate for a vote on secession from the union—to "keep up the good work" and "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.'"
    Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools. She hasn't made clear whether she thinks evolution is a fact.
    Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade." 
    Palin has close ties to Big Oil. Her inauguration was even sponsored by BP. 
    Palin is extremely anti-choice. She doesn't even support abortion in the case of rape or incest. 
    Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools. She's said she will only support abstinence-only approaches.
    As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library. Palin asked the library how she might go about banning books because some had inappropriate language in them—shocking the librarian, Mary Ellen Baker. According to Time, "news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor."
    She DID support the Bridge to Nowhere (before she opposed it). Palin claimed that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. But in 2006, Palin supported the project repeatedly, saying that Alaska should take advantage of earmarks "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist."

    The plain fact of the matter is that Sarah Palin did a bang-up job delivering a Karl Rove-style political attack speech last night. That makes her a skilled politician but it doesn't make her views any more palatable for voters. Americans don't need another far-right, anti-science ideologue in the White House.

    There's no trash talking here.  Just facts.  Unlike those items included in her address yesterday.
  • Guest
    Heidi - well said; and thank you for your comment.
  • Heidi
    I am so sick and tired of hearing Obama folks trash this mother and woman. They are going to get a rude awakening from suburban working moms, hockey/soccer moms, rural areas and blue collar all around. I was a Hillary supporter and now a Palin supporter. The Dems, Palousi and Dean missed the boat entirely. Just because you nominate a black man does not equate to being qualified to be president. Hillary was by far the most qualified candidate. Since they trashed her and used the worse tactics ever — claiming not to trash her to her face while coaching their supporters to trash her and call them racist behind their back was truly ugly!!! (Obama played the race card - Not Clinton). As Palin so well noted in her speech “We tend to prefer candidates who don’t talk about us one way in Scranton and another way in San Francisco.” Namely trashing rural people for believing in guns and religion will blow up in their face!!!. I can’t wait to watch the Deaneacs and Obama freaks go down — Big time…
    Heidi
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