yes, the plot thickens. And, I heard that Bill Ayers is also in the video, just reported on the news.

I have been in email correspondence with Aston and it seems to be completely legit.

Cool, well let's just see how it all pans out then.
And Ayers heh  I am sure he was there.

No bout a doubt it.

http://www.muckety.com/Dune-Capital-Management-LP/5004998.muckety

During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank. (See grant number 5180, "West Bank: CPRS" on page 14 of this PDF.)

The relationship extends back as far as 1993, when John McCain joined IRI as chairman in January. Foreign Affairs noted in September of that year that IRI had helped fund several extensive studies in Palestine run by Khalidi's group, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of "sociopolitical attitudes."

Toe you are such a twit, you take anything that is produced by the huffington post as gospal.

This artical is trying to draw a picture that just is not their. Lets use a little logic here.

First off the IRI website if you check it out talks about working with this organization, so they are not even trying to cover it up that they work and support this organization.

Second Khalidi is but one of 7 or 8 co-founders of this organization. Keep in mind that this is an ORGANIZATION not a person.

Third, this organization is dedicated to peace and education in the West Bank.

So let's see we have the IRI that is dedicated to expanding democracy, that has given a grant to an organization that is seeking peace and education in the west bank. It just so happens that one of the co-founders turns out to be a vary bad person

You know it is funny, but there is not even a coverup on this, I mean you would think that if McCain was friends with this person, and he wanted to hide it, that there would be a tape out there that an organization would be trying to bury, o wait that right that is that BO guy that has that.

Look Toe, you and the huffington post can try to make up all the stories that you want with half truths and down right lies that you want. And you are going to find nit witted twits like your self to believe them, but people who have a brain in this world, are not going to buy the garbage that you are selling.

But "Our Hero" John McCain would never donate money to Rashid Khalidi
-would he?
http://www.iri.org/newsarchive/2007/2007-10-22-News-AP-McCain.asp

He did not donate money to Rashid, the IRI donated money to the CPRS.

I know it is a hard concept for you libs to understand, but there is a differece of an organization and a person.

Do you mean to tell me, with all of the Multi-Millionaire's, Billionaire's out there, this is the best they can do?

How much is "truth" worth?

Right now, we are being sold out, betrayed if you will, for 30 pieces of silver.

I see the masses yelling, "Crucify Him, Crucify Him."   "Him," being "truth!"

Nero-bama, a word for you.

"All things which are hidden, shall be revealed"

You are not "the messiah"

Just the fact that you have not come out and rebuked the citizens, who are following you like "the one"  speaks volumes!

"You belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and has never stood for truth, since there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies."

We all know how these guys work.  They embed themselves within "seemingly good, peace seeking organizations"  which receive grants from all types of people (good and bad) so that when they are finally flushed out as who they REALLY are, they can point to all of the good people who donated to the organization as well.   This is the same tactic that Hamas, Hezbollah, and others use to try to stay below the radar.  It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.  And Obama uses this same tactic!! 

If you libs spent half as much time in church as you do trying to cover up the evil associations of Obama, you "might" understand how wrong and unpatriotic you really are!!!  

Take a look at the Dune Capital Employee contributions for 2008 cycle, leans pretty heavily to the left:

http://connectionflow.com/Presidential-Campaigns/Total-for-2008-Cycle/Campaign-Contributions-From-Dune-Capital-Employees.html

I would think, if there is one video, there are more. However, it would not benefit the terrorist groups to sell out their man.

Those terrorist groups are pretty loyal to their leaders and associates.

Look at Osama Bin Laden.   Millions of dollars offered for his capture.

I am shocked beyond belief, at the deception of those blindly following a virtual unkown, who has so much hidden.

I could see if they could prove that this man is full of integrity and honesty.

Just the fact that he had sealed all of his history, his wifes history, paying off the media, politicians and censoring the media and Americans who ask a simple question, one would think, logically, "what's wrong with this picture"

It is unfathomable that this is happening in our country.

Regardless of who wins this election.  Truth will prevail.  Those who have fallen away, will be hit in the face by the 2x4 of perversion, when he is truly revealed.

David,

   What you will never get is that McCain is not hidding this, he has nothing to hide. After reading information about the CPRS, it sounds like a good organization. Providing scholorships, and helping to talk about the peace process in the West Bank. The IRI is open about it's relationship with this organization and all organizations that it has dealings with.

Unlike your man BO who is hidding his relationship, who would much rather have the leftist media to cover up for him. So tell me David, if BO has nothing to hide, why is he not ending this whole thing over this video by asking that the LA Times release the tape?

Why I'm voting Democrat

I'm voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending MY MONEY than I would. I think when you spread the wealth around it is good for everybody! It’s Patriotic! I'm voting Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. All profits are evil and should be confiscated for Government Redistribution. I'm voting Democrat because I believe that MORE Government regulations and higher taxes on Business will stop Business from exporting their jobs to Countries with LESS Government regulations and lower taxes. I'm voting Democrat because I believe terrorists should be allowed to have trials in American courts. And be able to subpoena top secret documents, soldiers, government officials, etc. to cross examine for their defense. They should have ACLU lawyers who can help intimidate Americans who serve on the juries! I'm voting Democrat because I believe Gay Marriage should be the law of the land and will probably produce better children. I'm voting Democrat because I believe English should not be the official language of the United States. I don’t mind pushing one for English when I use the phone. I'm voting Democrat because I believe partial birth abortion is okay but water boarding a terrorist is disgusting. I'm voting Democrat because I believe having a domestic terrorist like Bill Ayers as a close friend is a good thing. It allows for great relations with foreign terrorists. I'm voting Democrat because I believe in a FREE government health care system. I believe doctors, nurses, hospitals, drug companies, etc. will gladly donate their time, products, services, facilities, etc. for FREE and that will be a better system. I'm voting Democrat because I believe in and support trial lawyers, frivolous lawsuits and outrageous jury verdicts. I'm voting Democrat because I believe 9/11 was an inside job to con the American people to go to war for oil. I'm voting Democrat because I believe social security is solvent and that there is a social security lock box and I don’t believe social security is a Ponzi scheme. I'm voting Democrat because I believe MOST AMERICANS are bitter and cling to their guns and religion. Let’s rid our country of guns and religion! I'm voting Democrat because I believe illegal aliens deserve all the rights of ordinary Americans plus some additional rights Americans do not have. I'm voting Democrat because I believe corporations should pay higher taxes! I believe higher taxes on business will make the price of their products and services LESS EXPENSIVE. I'm voting Democrat because I believe groups like ACORN who register felons, drug addicts, wino’s, homeless drifters, illegal aliens, dead people, children, fictional Disney characters, etc. makes my vote count more. I'm voting Democrat because I believe celebrating the winter solstice shows compassion for the small minority of people that do not celebrate Christmas. I'm voting Democrat because I believe hard core criminal murders and rapists deserve life and that the innocent unborn deserve death. It’s a choice I can live with. I'm voting Democrat because I believe that any one who is not partaking in one of the many wonderful government programs obviously has too much money and should pay higher taxes. I'm voting Democrat because I believe Bush caused Hurricane Katrina and he blew-up the levies in the ninth ward of New Orleans. I’m voting Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq the terrorists will be happy and now think of us as good people. I'm voting Democrat because I believe our soldiers are AIR RAIDING villages and killing innocent people. I'm voting Democrat because I believe sex in the Oval Office with an intern is a private matter and that everybody lies under oath about sex. I'm votin Demokrat because I wus edumkated at a publick sckrool. I lik da Natsionel Edukatshun Assoseeashun! I'm voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as it does not offend people. Can’t we all just get along? I'm voting Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits are wrong. I believe higher taxes on oil companies will produce lower prices at the pump. I'm voting Democrat because I believe we need to rid ourselves of dependency on foreign oil, BUT I AM AGAINST offshore drilling for oil and natural gas, drilling in Anwar, building nuclear power plants and clean coal technology. And finally, I'm voting Democrat because I believe Reverend Wright when he said “GODDAMN AMERICA” and “OUR CHICKENS ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST”. Hey let’s make a comfortable nest for those chickens!

What I hate is that Obama as the first black leader to be considered for the presidency will drag down all those who believed in him, who attached themselves to his star, any business or media or personality or race or social grassroots movement (like Acorn) will go down with Obama once he is unearthed.
And these same supporters will put as much energy into denying their connection with him as they did prasing him. ...relying on people's short memories, maybe they won't remember ....and let them survive the connection.

greatings Americans, for you obey democracy.  God's Punishment to all who from a gov possition help terror, in times of war, worst.
By the way, just ask Panamanians, Cubans, Venezuelans, Germans, etc. how WRONG IS VOTING "charismatic or articulated "$ocial or national lider$", and their acorn$ (logi$tic$, authoritie$, judiciary, ordinary crime related to anamontes, castroagents...), 
more on the Media, 150 bhobiden media vrs 46 Mcain Palin media.
So all you have is this time one shoot ok?, just GO VOTE MCAIN,
so the u$$r-libland-the rest of the terror logistics live the USA, and allies lands, and have NO MORE fideles, chavezes, ma noriegas, and other hitlerland "dreammers" (nightmares, specially on surrender to the terrorists "opinion$"), to bow re-u$$r, again.
Republican ticket amazingly passed near, is energeticly exciting,
I heard Joe the Plumer was with them...
 

the battle for the ideas, the e battles...
this is the 3rd millenia AD-AI, A(fter) I(nternet), the are "the few" freeMedia against the unfamous drivebymedia, there are conservatives trying to get God back to school, the courtrooms, and explain the evolution on God's creation...
there are even "the few left on left" , Bush's re-election was possible by conservative democrats, they are not only "Reagandemocrats", they are conservative, and bhobiden are ultralibs, in times of war...

any single DICTATOR PROMISED CHANGE

friendlyenemies of the enemy?, megaglobal plannedbubbles?, iran-chavez-libcongre$$ "dreamed gas prices"?, no God at schools already?, opposed to Iraq war?, what the think on the war?, the enemy?, allies?, change the direction of the war?
mega electoral fraud acorn$?, mega economic bombings also fannie, enron, freddy... social assimetric weaponry, "invisible"...
vote Mcain, this is not sep the 11th 2001 AD-BI (Before Internet), there are also e armies along the defenses left (not touched by the libland darkness, that simple)
today's e comm:
order of the day: find and "kill" the enemy (intellectually, of course: ideas.
Strategy: replay their own statements on war, the enemy, the allied,
ask'm about (just in this moment?) megacrisis, planned, acorns (fannie, freddy, enron,etc $ociali$t assymetric weaponry)...
tactic: just jump into the new frontier, the cyberspace

whant to know the plots, plans, and the "real" acorns?
whant to know the realmcoy?
learn about the "today's libs"
vote Mcain-Palin

Jarrod (#12).....
So if this is such a great organization that John McCain acting as chairman of the International Republican Institute, decided to give money for scholarships or whatever, what's the big deal. 
The big deal is.....we as a nation need to stay focused on the real issue of economy and it's connection to this disastrous war we are involved in.

JarrodM;

They won't do it.  They hide behind their proverbial web of lies.

What is there to hide, if there is "nothing to hide?"

No use trying to get anyone to seek the truth, when they do not want truth. It's all perception.

They only want to debate for the sake of debating.  They want to present as "super intelligent beings" who believe they have all the answers of the universe.

There is nothing to debate about.

Time will tell.

Mom...
I wish i had all the answers, yet i depend on my observation, that show me that the Reagan Revolution conservatives cling to has been a failure both to the people and the economy they depend upon.
There is no lie to any of what i have presented here on UC's site.....

David. I just know that I would like to have the innocence back, that has been hijacked from this country, many, many years ago.  I don't care if the person is Democrat, Republican, Independent, White, Black or polka dot!

I want my country back.

And even though McCain may not have been my first choice, I have always respected him for serving this country, in a war that was horrible and made no sense and, because I am quite sure, as he sat in the POW camp, he realized how precious freedom is and would serve the rest of his life, helping us to keep those freedoms.

While I know, no one is perfect, not on this earth anyway, I have my morals and my beliefs and who lines up with what my heart, my spirit and my soul tells me is right, then that is how I will select who I want to attempt to be in charge.

I am absolutely positive, that I cannot vote for, trust anyone, man or woman, who lies and hides the truth.  Period.

David--

You are trying to equate McCain's giving money to an organization who does good things but happens to have a hateful prick on the board to Barack the wealth spreaders hanging out with the hateful prick.That is the difference.

And you are right, I wish we would focus on the economy and the war in Iraq, because when you study the two candidates positions on these issues, Barack the wealth spreader isn't even a viable option. In BHO you have a guy who would tax Americans into oblivion, causing the loss of who knows how many jobs, and would turn tail and run from Iraq, causing further destabilization in the area. Neither idea is good for the continued well being of this country.

It just hit thehill.com -

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2008/10/29/reward-of-175000-offered-for-lat-obama-tape/

Russell....
-when speaking of "Hateful Pricks", be sure to include G. Gordon Liddy  (Someone McCain didn't want to talk about when he was chatting with Dave Letterman (finally).....
Tax into oblivion?  By not making the Bush Tax Cuts permanent?  These tax cuts are one of the main reasons we have such a HUGE debt and our economic demise......Yes, spread some of that wealth down some of us who have slaved for these rich guys.....we'll spend it on Newports and Malt Liquor.....
Mom.....
Concerned about lying?  Then be concerned of John McCain

You can include all kinds of people in that category. Just pointing out the difference. There is a huge gap between G Gordon and Bill Ayers, just saying. And say what you wish about the Bush tax cuts, they make Barack the wealth spreader out to be a liar. When he lets them expire that is a defacto tax increase that will be had by ALL. So the 250k thing doesn't make alot of difference anymore.

As for Newports and Malt Liquor, I hear that. Heavy on the Malt. LOL

Ok Russ.......
just to make y'happy, letting the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy is a
defacto tax increase....But we have to cut that huge deficit W has given us......
And Remember, John was against these SAME tax cuts 8 yrs. ago, right?
But on the Newports and Malt Liquor thing, i was thinking of
Dave Chappell and this:
http://www.jibjab.com/view/140957
("....Buckets of chicken are up $600......!)
Oh....and G. Gordon is an unrepentant con too!
-But it's old history.

At this point, the smoke is so thick, it is hard to see. It will settle, and the truth will "out." Watch how the "friends" scatter. the bloggers who supported Obama will disappear, change their email addresses, the media that pushed for him will turn on him to maintain some kind of revenue, the personalities that endoresed him will say something sad about the state of corruption or that they were victims of the subterfuge, but they too will forsake him. It's almost out already. Maybe we need to see him in the house to realize the full extent of the truth....and how we have been either responsive or reactionary to this movement...well planned from back in the early nineties.  I only pray that a minimum of longtime damage be done to race relations and to our country's legislative laws and constituion.

Susan,
What exactly do you mean.....
" I only pray that a minimum of longtime damage be done to race relations and to our country's legislative laws and constituion."
I'm not sure i follow you, but it sounds interesting ....

Susan. I hear you!  

It is perhaps, woman's intuition and I believe, "the writing is on the wall"

In my spirit, I see "race" being a huge whiplash, no matter the results here.

If McCain wins, there will be rioting in the streets and mayhem of unprecedented proportions.

If he loses, by a small amount and challenges the votes, there will be rioting on the streets etc.

This is how they (extreme leftist with socialistic, marxistic views)
win the battle.

This is their agenda, their character, their history.

They will not stop until, we all become like "stepford wives" as a people.

No God, No morals, No freedom, No voice, No Love, No Life.

It's the same mentality of those who are trying to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

But we do have hope!

"I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee"

And that promise, we can know as, "truth"

"No God, No morals, No freedom, No voice, No Love, No Life."
-2BlueStarMom
Does it mean that if you have no god (such as me)......
-that i have no morals?
i wonder why it hurts so bad when i think of those innocent civilians i witnessed, killed in an air strike........for if i had no morals, it shouldn't bother me.
I may not have a god, but i do have morals....

David, What I meant is that I am saddened by the bad fruit of this election process, how we have become more polarized racially. It seemed to me that we as a nation were ripe for graduation to a better integrated community. What we all valued here was this idea of our constitution which provided a place for us all to engage, to rise.......it trumped racial and even religious differences.....and helped us choose the best when it was strange and even frightening.  I dread that no matter who is elected that racial differnces will now be associated with socializm and give unenlightened scared people a valid reason to justify their prejudice. Instead of the constitution offering them a bridge over.....it will give them a good reason to defend their newly built wall. 
I hate what I am seeing. 
That's what I meant. Suze

"I dread that no matter who is elected that racial differnces will now be associated with socializm and give unenlightened scared people a valid reason to justify their prejudice."
-Susan
Wow!  Good Point
It may well give reason"to defend a newly built wall".

Dear 2 Blue Star Mom,
And that perhaps has been part of God's plan, not that God brought this about, but that inbuilt into self-serving agendas are their own destruction, and what remains intact and clearly unrefutable is what isn't self serving.  I am not worried about the fact that Christ could possibly be tarnished, but I do believe, luv, that He is grieving for the ones who are getting swept up in racial mania and political hierarchies.  Suze 

For both David and 2-blue Star Mom,
It doesn't occurr to us at first knee-jerk reaction....that  we don't have to choose sides here. That we don't have to play the lowly role of being the kids in this divorce and have to choose one parent over the other and by keeping one thing we have to lose another. We all lose here. This whole ugly thing is based on our most base instincts. 
I blame the underlying forces of destruction at play.
Only the most alert and devoted to love will even be able to resist getting swept up in the activity.
I have some around me that are wise and able to see it from an alternative spot,  so that helps a lot.  I wish the same for you guys. Suze 

What hasn't occurred to so many is that we don't have to choose a parent to live with in this divorce, and therefore lose no matter what.
I don't choose to hate here. and that really is the crux of it for me.
I am NOT playing this game. ...which cannot win. If one side wins, it means the other side loses....and that is too many people who lose.
Bad game when nobody wins. Suze

What doesn't seem to be part of the main conversation here is that there is a THIRD party, and alternate choice. We don't have to choose to live with one or the other of our parents in this ugly divorce and therefore lose no matter what.
It's a bad game when everyone loses. I ain't playin'.  It's bad enough to have it all around me.  We can choose better. I just feel so terrible for the inevitable ruins of the victorious. Suze

It doesn't seem to be part of the conversation that we...none of us have to choose a parent in this ugly divorce ...which means losing no matter which one we go with.
 It's a bad game when the opponent is slaughtered.  too much loss. I ain't playing. Suze

I don't want to play this game that means my opponent is slaughtered. It means I lose even if I win. We don't have to choose a parent to live with in this ugly divorce.....we are all grown up now...aren't we? Suze

The right already rigged at least one of the two previous elections and there was no, "chaos in the streets". Any idiot can see Obama is going to win. the question is, wll the conservatives concede defeat gracefully, or will they stir up racial tension. If obama wins we will see(republican) cops killing black people, hate crimes go up, and I  am sure some right wing faction will conspire to assinate him. these are the methods of the extreme right

I hope this goes somewhere!
One unsavory friend?  So What!  Two unsavory friends? Whatever. A cluster of unsavory, influential friends?  That's important.  

http://rightklik.blogspot.com/

Jason--that is exactly what i've been talking about.  you are correct!  what is the saying--if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, blah, blah, blah! 

Jason....how true!
Very good point you made. 
-A lobbyist chaired McCain's campaign. A former lobbyist is running it. There are more than 60 current and former telcom lobbyists on McCain's campaign. It's ridiculous how in bed McCain is with lobbyists in Washington. And no one holds McCain accountable.
After a large campaign contribution from oil industry executives he immediately began crowing about "drill here...."
-Never mind we simply do not have the capacity to drill our way to ANY degree of energy independence

Uh oh!  Looks like your boys wife, ran her mouth again and is getting to go "LIVE FROM FOX NEWS, IT'S MICHELLE OBAMA!

Big surprise coming up any time now folks.

I'll give you a hint "whitey"

Oops, surely that would NEVER happen in a million years?  Oh my, it must be a "fraud"

"All things that are hidden, shall be revealed."

P.S.   Thanks for stopping by my site David W. Walters. 

Ya'll come back now, hear?!

David---#25

Now I get it. I had never seen that before, pretty funny stuff. 

You use the word wealthy in your post, but I make under 50K/year and I got a tax cut, got a stimulus check giving me some of the money I paid in back, so seems to me if my taxes raise so are alot of others. And what part of cutting through the deficit is proposing HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars of new spending?? Where is he gonna get that money?? His proposed tax increases will not even  pay for the new spending he wants, much less cut into the deficit. I agree with you that we need to cut the deficit, but raising taxes that don't cover new spending isn't the way to get that job done.

2BlueStarMom....you're welcome!

Russell...."And what part of cutting through the deficit is proposing HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars of new spending?? Where is he gonna get that money??"
-a start would be the $10Billion/Month
we are presently wasting in Iraq(while the Iraqi government is running in the BLACK)

Russell....uhm....the price changed again.   I know, I know, it's been up, down, all around.  I did not watch his little show last night, but, my sources tell me, he's at $200,000 now.  Yes, I know, it gets confusing. 

He is a really busy man these days and it was just a little boo boo on his part.

Flip, I mean, slip of the little ol  tongue a rooney, there.

Okay David, you are probably right. It is probably time to stop spending so much in Iraq, even though it is not a waste. But if Barack is talking about ramping up operations in Afghanistan, will any of that money come back here? I think not. Say we cut the 10B in half, we are gonna spend at least that much on the new offensive ops. I understand you are against the Iraq thing, and I disagree but respect that. Regardless of right or wrong, we won't be seeing any of that money for years. So I still ask, where are the hundreds of billions going to come from? It's okay if you don't know, because neither does Barack and this is his bar-b-que.

Mom---regardless of where the price is now (started at 300K, went to 250K for family and 200K for single, and then the Biden 150K thing) doesn't matter. When he lets the Bush tax cut lapse, we are all getting an increase. If you pay anything in at all, your taxes WILL go up under BHO. Those are just the facts. He is lying by omission, hoping nobody will notice.

BTW American Thinker has a great little table to help understand this and even links to IRS where you can put in your income and it will calculate where your taxes would be with both individuals. Worth taking a look at.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/senator_obamas_four_tax_increa.html

Hi Russell.   That's why I am voting for McCain.

"Say we cut the 10B in half, we are gonna spend at least that much on the new offensive ops."
-That's still $60Billion a year Russ!
Which Barack has pledged to invest into the Dept. of Veteran Affairs...........

Suze.....(in 34), said;
"That we don't have to play the lowly role of being the kids in this divorce and have to choose one parent over the other and by keeping one thing we have to lose another. We all lose here. This whole ugly thing is based on our most base instincts.....
I blame the underlying forces of destruction at play.
Only the most alert and devoted to love will even be able to resist getting swept up in the activity.
I have some around me that are wise and able to see it from an alternative spot,  so that helps a lot.  I wish the same for you guys.."

It is true elections tend to polarize the electorate, and this one is turning out to be even more so......

I see this election as a chance to turn the page on the more "base instincts" you allude to.  By this i mean that John McCain is symbolic  of those things in our past that are not what i as a Veteran, and an American feel proud about.
I love this nation, yet there are more than a few things in our past that should not be repeated, and i see a McCain/Palin administration too willing to cling to our more base nature.....and this concerns me. 

Since my concern here is about the divisive forces at play and how even if we make a change on one side that is badly needed, or if it happens from the opposing side.....what is at stake from my view is a bigger loss accross the board. Forgive the analogy, but it's like tossing out the dirty bathwater we also toss the kid.
 No question that the incrdulous corruption on the hill needs overhauling  with it a top-to-bottom restructuring.....(and for my money I would begin with making the voting process and campaigning laws one of our paramount issues so that the we as a nation would "accept" our elected leaders...but that's another topic for another time )  but the reason I have entered into the conversation here whereas I usually don't, is that I have noticed an immediate identifying with ONE SIDE or the other....and when any criticism is launched....we feel we need to defend them ...as though they are who we are.....and that isn't true. 
As for your experience as a vet, thank you first of all for what you have given.....nobody realizes how much that costs people. I got part of my training in counseling  at the vet hospital at Duke....and learned so much through the PTSD vets....so it's a real big thing.
I would just suggest that you of all people should know that the only real devil here is not alligned with one candidate or the other.....rather it is in the destructive and corrupt methods that are at play.....
I wouldn't presume to try to talk you into or out of any understanding you have politically. This is not political for me. It is spiritual.
          Suze 

David, I understand that most who see this election process as  an opportunity to make a change on one of their "pet peeves" has attached themselves to that party, that candidate's policies and character entirely, not thinking through that they will also be losing massively. Whole peoples that had been living with each other with so many more areas in common than they had that divided them......are now entrenched in a fox hole....a battlefield between them and their others.
And by alligning ourselves with a whole party and with that jargon ...we allow ourselves to be played....
By the way, I do thank you for your service as a vet. I trained as a counselor at the VA hospital at Duke with the vets who suffered from PTSD and I know a little about how much we owe you there...
but I also know that vets on both sides of this campaign seem to have  
reasons for wanting the opposite party.

But David, it's not like any of us who are jumping on this opportunity for change (for our personal reasons) are going to gain just that one thing....if we even are that fortunate....; rather we are going to inherit all the policies and agendas and ruins (of war/victory) that are motivating that side in this battle.
I think one of my points is that we each have reasons to be rallying here....not realizing that whole party...its philosophy....its corruption....its partners....you name it.... then becomes our responsibility to defend. ...
And how do we defend the deliberately criminal behavior that has happened here already?

http://www.hedgeforce.com/reward.pdf

Looks like another reward, saw it liveblogging

Is this all you guys have.....
for once i agree with Bill Kristol...McCain should'a fired his entire staff...

David. For once I agree with you! LOL

Where was Joe the Plumber today?

The cast of characters seems to keep growing.  We need to see that video ASAP.  I suppose this is just the tip of the iceberg.  While most voters may be paying attention, they're not digging deep enough to find these things.  And why should they?  They understandably believe what they see on TV and in their newspapers.  How could they possibly know how unethical the media have become in glossing over the unseemly details?  You have to be an rabid news junkie to see what's going on.

When Obama becomes president, this won't stop, unless Obama makes a mistake that is literally earth shaking.  Then, media bias will be the least of our problems.  I've never feared for our country (and our world) like I do now.

http://rightklik.blogspot.com/

Jason--
I agree completely.  If obama becomes president, i think he will continue to associate with these type of folks but in secret.  his office and dealings will never be transparent.  he has already proven to me who he is.  He is power hungry and can't wait to work with Pelosi, Reed and Frank.  They will ruin this country.  we just think this country is in terrible shape now; if he takes office, it will be worse. 

Sadly the L.A. Times has already decided long ago that it doesn't want to do what is in its financial best interest and run the video. That they would rather forgo income for themselves and their staff rather than to go against Big Brother Obama.

So even if this is true, this won't affect the LA Times. Now if the possible partisan who originally filmed this gathering in the first place could be swayed... would be nice.

Capitalism, clear the way through Obama-lust fascism and bring us the truth!

David et al:

How much is a stable Iraq worth? How much is a stable neighbor-to-Iran worth?

How much is it worth to have a country in the middleeast where Al Qaeda is no longer welcome? How much is worth to not hand Al Qaeda a win?

How much will it cost to come back years or a decade or so later to try to stabilize the area if we don't get it done correctly now?

Wake up David. Success is not cheap. And success is worth a lot. And it's its still LESS of a percentage of our GDP than past conflicts.

Dave. #58

Communication break down, it's always the same......

Here is something everyone needs to remember.

Whether you believe in God or not.

God is in control.  Truth will prevail.

You may remember, or maybe not,  David (McCain) and Goliath (Obama).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath

Some folks think it's a fable.  I on the other hand, believe it is history.  History in this case tell us,

God is not mocked.  God uses the foolish things, to confound the wise:

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are"

While Obama appears to be winning with his bigger money and bigger following;

Little humble McCain will put on the Armor of God, take his little stones, (that's us) and hit Perversion of truth, right betwixt the eyes.

And we will all live happily ever after!

and the giant pumpkin shall be here any moment.

Let them eat................Pumpkin pie!

BHO does like his pie, right?

LOL....I love you Mom!!  You rock!!   God Bless You!!!

It's called, Humble pie. 

It is hard to be humble when you are so cool! tee hee

Barrack Obama got out of the shower and was drying off when he looked in the

mirror and noticed he was literally white from the neck up to the top of his

head, and even his hair was white.  In sheer panic and fearing he was
turning white and might have to start working for a living, he called his
doctor and told him of his problem.

The doctor advised him to come to his office immediately.  After an
examination, the doctor left the exam room and came back with mixed
concoction of brown liquid, gave it to Barrack, and told him to drink it
all.

Barrack drank the concoction and replied, 'Yuck - - That tasted like
bullshit!'

The doctor replied, 'It was, you were a quart low...'

J  I am not going to put that number here, but as to your last remark:
tilly wabbit

That is racially divisive and totally uncalled for. Also pretty funny while being factually incorrect. Everyone knows if there is one thing BHO doesn't need, it is more bs.

You tell em Russell!  Grrr...go get em!

But getting back to the message here..."truth" can never be for sale.

http://prayforthepeaceojerusalem.blogspot.com/2008/10/150000-reward-for-truth.html

Oh, speaking of video's and truth....here ya go fellas!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/381gFG4Crr8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/381gFG4Crr8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

oops...let me try that again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=381gFG4Crr8

Nice link. Did I hear that lady correct. She believes that if she helps BHO that he is going to make it so that she does not have to pay for gas or pay her car loan? Is that what these people think they are going to get if he is elected.

You want to see a  video from the heart watch this Video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

Yes JerrodM, you did. 

And your link, I saw this yesterday and it is far more worthy to be here!

I hate war.  I Love our troops.  They have a very special place in my heart, especially  those precious souls who have wounds that they live with daily, to remind them of the sacrifices they made, for us.

I am going to post a blog, challenging these Billionaires, to forget about the L.A. Times tape.  That will come out eventually.
If not who cares?
We can't do anything about it now.

But they can give to the GOP Trust, a few million, each, so we can get the word out with T.V. ads, to folks who still are unaware of what is really going on here or haven't made up there minds.

Those news reporters who were kicked of BHO's jet, well, that's just the tip of the iceberg of what we can expect, with the hijacking of our country.

http://www.goptrust.com

It's worth the try!

Semper Fi

Ok. I did it!   Take a peek! 

Patriot's with some good input, let me know.

We don't have much time.

I read an article today stating obama's advisors are already planning for him to announce to the American people (if he is President) right after he is in office that he cannot possibly fulfill his promises due to the bad economy.  they are planning a speech for him to gently back out of his economic plans even though the economy is terrible now.  has anyone else seen this?  of course, no one should be surprised as his math does not add up.  this will happen regardless of whether the article is true or not if he is elected.  he has said what the middle and poor folks want to hear to get votes.  people who don't pay taxes get more welfare and people in the middle get tax cuts while their jobs are being eliminated because companies are not willing/able to pay higher taxes.  of course, just in the last week Obama has said people who make less than $250k will get a tax cut then it went to $200K, then Biden said $150, then Richardson said $120.  now who knows maybe $250k is for couples and $200k is for singles.  even so that does not make sense so we already know he is lying and is still getting votes.  hmmmmmm!  and we have a population of smart people?  i'm questioning this.  the republicans can't carry the smart gene for everyone! 

I really hope that people are smarter than what i'm seeing in speaking to folks in and around my area and on these blogs because everyone is blaming the president for every bad event in the economy.  the President does not control every aspect.  look at the American automakers.  they were still making big SUVs late last fall and one was still advertising the Hummer.  in the meantime, the foreign car manufacturers were making more economy cars.  now how is this Bush's fault?  is it his fault people are losing their jobs because of bad business decisions?  of course not!  I place the blame on the President for the issues that he can control and not for those he cannot.  can the President control people who choose not to be competitive in the job market?  can he make individuals continually improve and broaden their skills so that they will be qualified in more than just one job?  people are quick to blame others instead of looking in the mirror.  i lost my job during the Clinton years but never thought of blaming President Clinton.  those were extremely tough years for me and instead of blaming others, i looked in the mirror and knew i had to obtain skills that the market was looking for.  it is easy now in this environment to blame others instead of taking personal responsibility for our actions!    

2 Blue Star mom,
thanks for your perspective....it seems to not be running amuck. We are going to have to be able to get back to something resembling human relations once this craziness settles. What this insanity has drawn to my attention is that only one in every hundred....or worse odds than that... are discerning of spiritual principalities, so they are easily manipulated.
and that site you provided with the mother and her girls who believed Obama was going to deliver them from their financial woes....if that faction of followers is going to be disappointed, just imagine how let down the masses will be when he isn't able to heal them with a touch of his hand?
But I tell you...he might have seduced my vote from me if I believed he could PRESTO get these extra fifteen pounds off.

Susan;   You are very perceptive.  And I think I'd rather keep the extra pounds, those come and go like the tide!  

I wonder how many folks out there, do have spiritual discernment?

I am not perfect by any stretch.  However, in my life time, I have had some very interesting experiences. 

Aside from real, bone chilling experiences,  dreams, premonitions, a soft voice speaking to your heart, your spirit.

When those things happen, it is confirmed. 

You might want to hold on to your American Flags folks.  I see this man, changing not only the constitution, but there will be a new government and Old Glory, will be a thing of the past.

This has been an eye opener to many.  Most recent polls, not that they are that accurate, tell us that the youth are moving to McCain. 

Hopefully, those who are following after us, the next generations, will   treasure the remnant of  innocence and be able to hold it close to their hearts,  allowing it to flourish, once again.

I concur;  "We are going to have to be able to get back to something resembling human relations once this craziness settles."

We have come the closest ever, to forever, losing this great country.  No, we are not perfect by a long shot.  God's still working on us!

“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.”

Jack;   I have seen quite a few things.  If you are a McCain / Palin supporter, go to TeamSarah.org     There are groups there from every walk of life.  We do not all agree with each other.  But, we do agree on Non Partisan America and getting this country back on track.

Many Hillary supporters are there and many Dems coming over.

Perhaps it's kinda like, trickle down economics, this great influx of Dems......and lots of Independents there also.

It's not a  "chick flick"   place!  LOL

We actually do have, "Real Men" there!  But let me warn others; 
We monitor this site very, very carefully for ugly propaganda intruders.

You know, red star kinda people. 

No, it's not censorship.  In war, you call it, "watching each others back"   or "point men" if you will.  It's just a silly 2nd amendment kinda thing.

There can be some very dark hearts out there with nothing more to do than spew venom.  They might last a few seconds on the sight, but we get them out of there, pretty quickly.  Moles, we get them too.  But we have been made aware of the MOP thanks to Hillary's gals and Dems who have come over.

Any way, back to point, check out the groups and what they are saying.  It is a real eye opener...and I am not exaggerating this!

Many have spilled the beans on BHO's agenda.

And as far as looking into a mirror, yes, this is a start.  I kind of like to think of it also as, "examining your own heart"

When I was a child, I spake as a child,
I understood as a child, I thought as a child:
but when I became a man, I put away
childish things. For now we see through a
glass, darkly; but then face to face: now
I know in part; but then shall I know even
as also I am known.

To see “through a glass”—a mirror—“darkly” is to have an obscure or imperfect vision of reality. The expression comes from the writings of the Apostle Paul; he explains that we do not now see clearly, but at the end of time, we will do so.

Be carful mom you start quoting Corinthians and they are going to think that you cling to your religion.

Jarrod. I figured that while I still have a voice, I still have my freedoms, I may as well put it all out there!

Oh, guess what?   Now, there is no comparison, whatsoever, with me and the great Queen Esther,  oops, I mean, Sarah Palin.

Howeva,  I can walk, talk, chew gum and shoot a gun all at one time!  You betcha!  By golly, they will have to pry my gun from my dead, cold fingers dontcha know?!

';-)

p.s.   Gun sales are up!

Ronald Reagan says, Just Say No: No Chavez, No Castro, No Adolph, No Nero-bama

I bet they take me off the web site for this one!

Oh, this is way cool!  I have a video of Reagan's speech

"Ronald Reagan, A time for choosing."

Some "comrades" may remember this speech!

http://prayforthepeaceojerusalem.blogspot.com/

OH my!  I forgot I wrote this at Townhall.com

A few months ago, September.  I did a blog "let's have a tea party"

http://a-voice.blogtownhall.com/2008/09/22/lets_have_a_tea_party.thtml

Someone just posted to me. 

i won't post his comment as folks can view it themselves...

He asked me to get this out, so here ya go

http://www.ourcaucus.com/teaparty.html

I have to admit I didn't think I would live to see the breadth of propaganda that is out there (both in the media and the internet....flooding the field with their crud and spin), and if you are searching for something, say, that could read negative about Obama or pro McCain, the actual search engine steers you to pro Obama sites or anti McCain blogs....Not that you would therefore choose that, but it gives the "done-deal" perception like the false polls about the state of opinion.
Talking to a McCain campaign guy last night who said the right has their people who could juxtapose the impression, but are allowing the very positive activating of the sleepy right effect it is having.  
The policies of the left that threaten the constitution are only one part....It's also the alarming deceptive tactics that have been exposed....which have made this battle worth it to the right. If a new idealogy is going to be the new american credo, I guess people at least want the change to come through a legitimate election.
And it is not going to just be handed over...even if Obama is elected....the impeachment papers are currently getting readied....(while the reps are still in) who have sufficient campaign financing info...
As a certain kind of leader in my community and within the NOrth Western Conference of N.C.,  I am speechless at the fever pitch from people who have hitherto been complacent or bored with their stance politically. They tell me that suddenly it is the most important thing to them.

Here is a very simple, non partisan question:

Who would want anything, if they have to lie, steal, cheat or take it forcefully?

Men, would you want a woman's love, if you had to forcefully take it?

Women, would you lie to get a man's affections?

Sad to say, some have stooped to those levels.

What purpose does it serve, except for temporary self gratification?

The final play-out, either they end up hating you for forcing themselves on you,  or lying to you, or they become complacent, like that of an abusive relationship, it's a no win.

If you've been victim of either, you will vow to, never allow it to happen again, hopefully.

Force, covers a wide gambit of scenarios.

Many from all walks of life, can relate to this.

God gave us "free will."   Haters of God, try to take that away.

So as our God given rights, we exercise free will.

Love always gives a choice. If there had been no choice, God could not have been love.

No free will leaves us all robots with no choice but to serve God...but He desires for us to love Him because we want to, not because we have to.

I don't think Nero bama, gets that!

what is it exactly, that bothers you about Obama, 2blue?

you insert your  religion into nearly every one of your posts.
how about some actual policy items?  we don't legislate on the basis of your religion or anyone elses.
certainly you are not insisting that we all abide by your chosen religious views-
what's with the noise about "no free will"?
did someone or something steal your mind or ability to reason?

 
the teamsarah blog that you mentioned  is a religious fundamentalist's dream come true- not, however, what we want running the country.
in terms of qualification, sarah palin is currently polling at a negative factor of 59.7%- meaning that just under 60% of the country find her NOT qualified for the job of vice presidency. 
newspaper endorsements across the country are
supporting Obama 240-114.  the palin pick is cited repeatedly in these newspaper endorsements as one large reason for their endorsement for Obama .
Republican papers, Republican  elected officials,  Republican talk show hosts,  and many more -have cited the selection of sarah palin as the primary reason why they have endorsed Obama.  
 http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003875230

McCain did not vet Palin- deciding instead to do a quick end-around to grab some poll numbers he saw slipping from him. He let his people convince him that any skirt would do.  He is paying the price for display of his bad judgment.  McCain has been unable to find any message that would set him away from those policies that he supported and continues to support that match those of Bush.  He's paying the price for being not a solution , but rather a direct cause and personification of the problems we now face.

Hi Toe. 
Gee, this may take some time. 

"you insert your religion into nearly every one of your posts."

Yes, part of my fiber, my character is my faith. Not religion.  It is my Faith and until that right is attempted to be taken away from me,  it is my unalienable right, to express myself, as is.

I guess it depends on what you interpret as "religion"
That has been a hard one to define for even the most philosophical.

"Furthermore, every man is responsible for his own faith, and he must see it for himself that he believes rightly.  As little as another can go to hell or heaven for me, so little can he believe or disbelieve for me; and as little as he can open or shut heaven or hell for me, so little can he drive me to faith or unbelief.    Since, then, belief or unbelief is a matter of every one's conscience, and since this is no lessening of the secular power, the latter should be content and attend to its own affairs and permit men to believe one thing or another, as they are able and willing, and constrain no one by force."

Defining the word "religion" is fraught with difficulty.
Many attempts have been made.
Most seem to focus on too narrowly only a few aspects of religion

"It is apparent that religion can be seen as a theological, philosophical, anthropological, sociological, and psychological phenomenon of human kind.   To limit religion to only one of these categories is to miss its multifaceted nature and lose out on the complete definition."

For me, trying to explain my "faith" is,  is kinda like trying to explain to you, what "is" is.

I believe even Clinton attempted that one. "What is, is"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0

Back to BHO.

Because I have spent so much time and space on "religion" here.......... why I don't want BHO as my President, is on the below video.....it is not like any other video that has been all over the internet. 

http://www.viddler.com/explore/CitizenSlim/videos/2/

It is so damning, the original was already taken down by the BHO "truth squad"
This one, below, was already targeted and removed by BHO

http://www.viddler.com/explore/CitizenSlim/videos/1/

I can't "force" you to look at this.  I doubt you will.  However, Your mission, should you decide to accept it, may be dangerous, to your religion.   "This video will self-destruct in five seconds," if the "truth squad" gets a-hold of it.  

You may want to get a cup of coffee and take time out of your busy schedule, it is about an hour long.  Which is why I didn't post the little bit of documentation of BHO's paper trail, here.

Say it ain't so, toe.

Gosh, I hate to do this to you again!

But, here we go again.

"McCain did not vet Palin- deciding instead to do a quick end-around to grab some poll numbers he saw slipping from him...."

The Book of Esther.  What a lovely documentation of history!

In a nut shell, (oops, let me rephrase that as I would not want to be perceived as "a nut,")

FAVOR

Synopsis:

a young girl who rises from peasant to princess by going against the culture and seeking the King's heart rather than the riches of the kingdom.

The noble Esther (Sarah) risked her own death (political, personal, character assassination, media) as she realized what was at stake (America, Freedom). 

She willingly did what could have been a deadly maneuver (politics, mccain ticket) and took on the second in command of her husband‘s kingdom, (doubters, democrats)  Haman (Barack Hussein Obama.) 

She proved a wise and most worthy opponent, all the while remaining humble and respectful of the position of her husband-king.

The King vetted her,  toe.  No one, on earth, or in the universe, and the universe is watching, toe, can in actuality, undermine, God. 

It all boils down to this, toe.

Greater is He that is in me, than he that is in the world

1John4:4

thank you for the display of a living, breathing, whack job, 2blue.
the good news is: there is help available.

unbelievable.

do you also believe that we never landed on the moon?

just curious.

Oh heaven's no, toe!

God created the universe, the earth, the sun, moon and stars, plants and animals, and the first two people.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you"

My silly, foolish, little mind tells me, toe;

He created you too!

And if that is true, then he created the first person who walked on the moon!  Didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out!

“God has chosen the foolish things of the world (me, whack job)  to put to shame the wise, (foot, toe, etc. ) and God has chosen the weak things of the world (me)  to put to shame the things which are powerful, boastful, all knowing (you);”

according to you.

keep that in mind.

now, kindly stop thumping your bible in my face

toe, you asked, I obliged.

If you don't want to know or hear, don't ask.  It is simple.

That being said, since you know that I may something you don't like, don't read my comments or change the channel. 

Is  that not what the far left told folks when things were getting really.... controversial,  x rated, etc.,  on t.v.?

It's ok toe.  I Love Ya~

I can't always tell if my responses get through until later when I find several blogs of mine in a row....and that is embarrassing.
Sorry...
But about religion and scripture being used here in many arguements concerning the election: It's a spiritual matter. some people are aware of it and refer to what informs them there, like citing a specific law in a lawbook.
What many people don't know is that "Americanism" is the closest thing to a religion for a big portion of the U.S. It's constituton was based on the Christian belief of Grace.....(which is freedom....it literally means free gift from God..) and opposed earning God's favor by works righteousness.
The sociological emphasis of Obama is an anti-christian idealogy and is therefore popular in anti-christian countries.  With Grace you are freely given all things...so that you can freely pursue all things and then the natural response is to freely give to others. No ceilings, no forcing.
This is the model of the Free Market....and why it is successfull for creating jobs....Opulence in creativity makes for the same.
Stifling and oppression makes for the same.

2Blue Star Mom doesn't need my speakng for her....but when she has offered Scripture to justify her position against Obama, she is just cutting to the heart of the matter.
Most people don't know why they are so invested in this election.
I suggest it is a spirtual matter.

Susan. if you get a chance, go to my web site, send me  an email. So I will know it's you, what are we to beware of

2blue, i asked what specific policy of Obama's gave you a problem.
you responded with bible speak.

clearly, you are entitled to your personal religious thoughts- but your religion is for you and politics are for everyone.  i am not of your faith and deeply resent your attempts to legislate me into your belief system.

Toe, c'mon man, you gotta stop thumping your "O'Bible" as well.  For the record, I will not vote for either of the major candidates this Tuesday...O'Bama has had California sewn up since he was 11...leaving me to vote my conscience like I did with Perot some years back.  But suffice it to say that (with religion extracted from the anology)  John McCain is the lesser of two undesirables.....way, way, the lesser.

for your further edification, susan and 2blue- please read the following regarding the founding of this country, the constitution, and religion as it relates to same:
 
http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm

tankerton, you'd be better off voting for Barr.

toe, you are a precious soul.

Why don't you just relax?

I gave you a link to go to. Instead of me listing all the things here..just go watch the movie.   It has your fav  character in it.

I am not trying to convert you. I can't.  You can't convert me.

If you do convert, it will be like Saul, you know, the guy in the bible that persecuted Jesus....then after he turned in all the Christians, The Lord spoke to him when he was talking a little walk down memory lane, "toe, toe, oops, I mean, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?  The Lord struck him blind, he was actually already blind, spiritually that is.

And lo and behold, he realized, he was wrong and how much The Lord loved him. 

It won't be anything I say or do.  You have a hard heart..Kinda like Pharaoh.  It just needs to be softened a little. 

See, you did it to me again. 

How do you do that?

Tankerton #101

I like  Huckabee.  However, I wasn't paying attention to any of this stuff or any of the candidates and didn't even want to vote, until I woke up one day and realized, things have gotten really bad, really fast.

It doesn't matter to me if he was democrat, independent, republican, polka dotted, if I do my homework, due diligence, etc.  I will go in the direction I feel I need to go.

But, voting for someone who is hiding his history and not being truthful etc.  I will not do.

Susan concluded "I suggest it is a spiritual matter".  Exactly Susan.  I have touched on this within other posts nearby....The dems argue in defense of Obama as if you were attacking their God...This phylum of democrat is godless (too smart to believe) so in their need to have someone "govern" over them and offer them "hope" in an unpredictable and even chaotic universe, they replace the god with a human....and then bestow godlike characteristics on that mortal.   As I have asserted many times, elevating man to diety has been tried in every oppressive regime throughout history.  Humans make poor gods, and gods poor presidents.  Obamarama will grow government.  The bigger the government, the bigger the corruption....it don't matter who's in office.  You surrender your rights to big government, and retain them under small government...Why is there even a discussion about which of these two scenarios is better for any of us?  The answer?:  Because religious maniacs (democratic mortal-worshippers) are unable to see the larger and true realty of 'political' issues and thereby are unable to respond with logic based, convincing argument.  In this case, this campaign, the dems are blinded by the light of their god Obama.  Period.

Gun and ammo sales are up big time.  I find that interesting, but not surprising.

Oh, here's a cute little response to BHO related to his remarks about Sarah's winking...toe, I am  surprised he didn't attack her for "her policies" as well.

Gee, who is running for President?  Sarah? McCain?  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqm9V0odGgo

Blue,
My man was Romney, but he's out.  I'm with you...I agree things have gotten to the point where those of us who have been too busy getting from day to day now have to find time to express that which we know is important...and we need to do it often, and convincingly.  You and I are on the same team.  Good luck to you and yours.  I can't vote for McCain because of his liberal stance on illegal immigration, which is a HUUUUUGE issue here in Southern California.  But if I were in a battleground state, I would in order to block the advance of the annoying one....I mean anointed one.

"Team Sarah"?
-nice....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqm9V0odGgo
wink, wink.
....but to some of us libs it kinda takes on a sorta sweet revenge to see Barack shakin' all that money he's raised at the grand ol party.  Who knows, he may just win this thing.  So the question then will become:
WHY?

"All the Believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need."
-Acts 2:44-45
Sounds kinda Socialistic to me!

Tankerton, I hear ya!   I grew up in Oceanside, I saw the deterioration of that state many, many years ago!   Also lived in Texas for many years, same, same.

I do believe, McCain will listen to the people, but not only this, look at how bad it is getting with them killing our boarder patrol etc.

I do respect your stance, however, please reconsider. I have managed to go to the Israeli web sites and get them to support us.  They have their own crisis happening, it's horrible.  But, I hear the Jews are really going to McCain. 

Tankerton;

"I will pour out my Spirit on everyone. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams."

Not sure where you fit in here, but He will speak to your heart, one way or another.

Blue, of course I will continue reconsidering whose conservative chad I will cause to dangle up until the last moment....I promise.  Perhaps someone can someday explain to me why American Jews opt (in great numbers) to support the Democrats.  I am so puzzled.  Seriously puzzled.
Watching jews voting as democrats is so much like watching this country
committing a slow suicide over the past 40 years.  I'll never be able to understand how common sense has become the rarest of commodities
in this most special of nations.  I guess one analogy to the "suicide" comment is that suicide victims somehow learn to hate themselves....Obviously, about half of this country has been able to learn to hate  their country....maybe that's it.  Maybe it's that simple.

Yes W., it does sound like socialism....no argument from me.  However,
Jesus was appealing to the masses of the world, not to any particular sovereign.  Again, the idea of God as an inspirational guide in aiding personal day-to-day decision-making is quite a bit removed from  a government having the power to demand that we share our possessions
with others...is it not?  Do you really not see the distinction between the two
scenarios?  David...seriously.  really?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20081101/canada-palin-prank-call/
-is this true?  Was Sarah Punked?

Tank.....(114):
"Jesus was appealing to the masses of the world, not to any particular sovereign.  Again, the idea of God as an inspirational guide in aiding personal day-to-day decision-making is quite a bit removed from  a government having the power to demand that we share our possessions...."
Jesus appealed to the masses of the world?  Reading the gospels, i get the feeling that he spoke to isolated groups in villages and towns in Palestine,
.....and if you read a commentary such as "Palestine in the time of Jesus" by Hanson & Oakman, you'd see that in the cultural/social system of 1st century Palestine, religion and government were essentially the same,
......which is why Jesus was condemned and executed as a revolutionary and a terrorist.
Jesus was advocating a  religious/political referred to as "The Kingdom of God".......and he was executed as "King of The Jews"....
" He said to them:
But now if you have a purse , take it along; and the same goes for a knapsack.
And if you don't have a sword, sell your coat and buy one"
-The Gospel of LUKE Ch.22/36

So Jesus was executed because he made claim to being a God...and this challenged the authority of men whom at that time ruled the realm?  And today we have a man posing as a god...only this time, he wants us to surrender our possessions to each other....not as a gesture of our godliness, but as a gesture to his.  Where is Obama's example of humility and giving to one another?  He believes not in a higher entity than that of himself.  He believes not in God, and not in this nation.  I feel he is my enemy.  I fear he will soon prove it.  I fear you will too late realize the same.  God...do I hope I'm wrong.
P.S. I am certainly no theologian and appreciate the history lesson.  Thank you for the  thoughtful reply.

Your future VP just got owned what a ding-bat, nailin palin,haha.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/11/01/palin_pranked_by_sarkozy_imper.html

DIDNT MC CAIN GIVE ALMOST HALF A MILLION TO K'S ORGANIZATION?
IDIOTS...
WHEN THE MUSIC'S OVER TURN OUT THE LIGHTS....TURN OUT THE LIGHTS...TURN OUT THE LIGHTS!

Why are conservatives against Palanstenian rights? I mean they are humans too. To them Israel are terrorists, I mean Israel has done some really nasty things to them, they are not innocent. And when did conservative start caring about the Jews I thought all you racists hated them too?

Tank....
He was executed for being "King of the Jews"
-his crime was posted on his cross above his head....it's written in the gospels.
......had he been guilty of claiming to be god...
-that would have been blasphemy, which was punishable by stoning,
-not crucifixion.
So, Tank....if you really read the gospels critically, you'd understand.

But what i don't understand is this crap about Barack claiming to be god....what's up with that?  All he wants to do is fix the mess that began to be made 28 years ago, with the election of Ronald Reagan.

"if one voice can change the world for Obama, one Viagra can change the world for McCain"-The Masked Avengers!

olmhert....i really fear for this nation if this dingy woman is elected VP!

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=334

2BLUESTARMOM
-when you asked what libs wanted....
toe just answered it in 121,

"Some Americans are having a change of heart about mixing religion and politics. A new survey finds a narrow majority of the public saying that churches and other houses of worship should keep out of political matters and not express their views on day-to-day social and political matters."

Not that i am against christians     (i used to be one myself)
They have every right to pray and honor their god as they see fit.
It's just that it is going too far.

Hello ya'll!  I see you have been busy whilst I was having dinner, not the last supper, but I enjoyed it none-the-less!

My goodness!  Do you guys really want to go here/there?!

It never ceases to amaze me.....first you don't want to talk about it, then you do!  Seems like marriage squabbling to me !

I really believe, you should pray about it.  There seems to be much confusion.  Not sure who your source is, but you really should confirm the infor before you quote things and discuss them.   Read your Bibles more often.  See what the Author has to say. 

If most of you don't believe, or think He did not exist, or deny His deity, why are you talking about Him?  You're just giving validity to Him.

David, he gave his life, willingly, for you, for me, for all.  Remember.....  Pontius Pilot;   Pilate therefore said to him, "You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?"

Jesus answered him, "You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin."   (he's referring to Judas etc.)

Oh Dave....just saw your last post.

" Not that i am against christians     (i used to be one myself)
They have every right to pray and honor their god as they see fit.
It's just that it is going too far."

When you go to sleep tonight, I hope He visits you in a very special way, and with open arms and says "Come Back To Me"

He never left you, you left Him.

Make sure you share with us when that happens. It will be so awesome to hear!

I fasted the other day and prayed. I asked Him, "if you love me, please bless me, cause I'm not letting go, until you do"

That night, when I was asleep, He kissed me on the top of my head and said "I bless you"

Isn't that sweet?!

I thought so.   

Christians (and all other theists):
My reading the bible led to my rejection of Christianity....i am a proud atheist (Re: against Theism).....
But, please pray and worship if that works for you, if that helps you deal with this life.  I wouldn't want to take that from you ever!
What worries me is that atheists are looked down upon by some in the religious community.   In North Carolin's Senate race, it is so easy for Libby Dole to slam Kay Hagan for being an atheist (she isn't)......like atheism is some sort of crime!  This isn't American, is it?

sometimes I write such long letters here...and they don't get through.
That's what just happened.  so maybe I am supposed to be brief.
Toe, thanks for the Link....about the belief that our Constitution was based on Christian faith....
I have seen others like it.  They have spliced and omitted to make a point...much like a biased paper does. but what was in there I was glad to see was Ben Franklin's appreciation for the Christian ideal, but was insistant that their model not be corruptable like the church in england had been....thus the careful wording in the constitution.

And the people who came together, although not all Chrstians themselves, were very strong on protecting people's freedoms...which included freedom of speech...worship....writing...etc..
Their model....was based on what they had come from...what they knew...whether or not they were professing Christians themselves.

It was the Age of Reason....coming out of the Rennaissance....and the thinking man was all the rage all at once.
 but every educated man couldn't be considered informed unless he knew about the different religions.

sometime I will tell you a bit about my background and what I actualy do..

but it's important to keep seeking, Toe....
Don't be content with a handout blurb to persuade you.
Look for yourself...or you make yourself prey to be played.

Some people don't want to know....more than what makes them feel o.k. in that moment...so they put a lot of energy in to being distracted.

But I have always thought that we can't really choose unless we first learn what is out there...eh?

2Blue Star Mom,
I will try to get through to you....but if I don't let me know.
You're a good girl. suze

Tankerton,
You described the reasons the right cannot speak to the circular arguement from the left...is because they are blinded by their worship of Obama.
I agree.  This need for God that is within us seeks its point of worship, be it money, power, stuff, or other deities...and in this case....they have zoomed in on Obama...the solution to every despondent prayer.
Oh my the crash about to resound.
I hate how disillusioned they are all going to be.
But what I have been speaking to here is what a mind blower it is for some of us who live in the world but not "of" it and to observe this dance play out ...and this high pitch of emotion is based on who we serve here....not what party....
Like Bob Dillan wrote, "You got to serve somebody. It may be the devil or it may be the Lord....but you got to serve somebody."
It is useless to flail your arms about....like lemmings over the cliff they go. Read Luke 12: 49-59....I got this last night when I was just praying over the matter....and it shook me up....not because I think any of us know the exact time....but the part about discerning what it happening...
People who are spiritually awake are aware of what is happening.
 
 

This has turned into a freak show.

Oh Susan....
enough with the Obama worship.  That Barack is an intelligent, thoughtful person does give me a modicum of hope that we can somehow climb out of this abyss that our nation is presently in.  McCain and leadership?
Picking Palin ended any thought of a connection of leadership and McCain.
As to gods on earth....
"David, he gave his life, willingly, for you, for me, for all....."
Did he?
Why did he cry out "Eloi, Eloi,lema sabachthani.....(My God, my God, why did you abandon me?"
-Mark15:34 (-sounds like he lost hope to me.....)

David, I thought that was filthy what Dole did, and so did a lot of other people. You don't have to be Christian to recognize immoral behavior...and what I disliked the most was that she played on the Bible Belt N.C, leanings to prefer a Chrstian leader (basically because they hope they have an accountability to a higher order in their decisions), and meanwhile she used such un Christian tactics...
It will lose it for her for sure.
As for your atheism....
My experience with atheists is that they are usually anything but robots....they certainly aren't parrots to follow the masses...
and I appreciate that kind of time and effort it takes to actually come to declaring oneself an atheist....
But it sounds to me like you are more of an agnostic....which isn't as stuck and final.  
Something you might be feeling from people that seems like they feel that atheists are less....is that they wonder what keeps you honest? On what basis may I assume you make your decisions. this is why some folks are having problems with Obama. They can't tell who he feels accountable to.
There was this great televison commercial for Kosher Franks. It went, "It's pure. It's Kosher. YOu can believe us. We answer to a higher authority."  And knowing the Jews....people trusted their belief in their faith.
People need a reference for how to trust someone who professes no accoutability other than the law. The law won't always be there to make us accountable.  I don't know if people think less of you for your not believing as much as it's a trust issue.

Hey anyone...check out
 thenoseonyourface.com
And I just heard Richard Dreyfus talk about America....it was touching.
We are a country bound by a common ideal, but if we don't know these ideals ...then we are no longer bound together.
We are the acutalization of the enlightenment when reason and logic and faith combined. which banned zealotry and authoritarianism....
This is some of what he said.

No...i'm a serious Richard Dawkins kinda atheist......but i have a passion for studying the life and ministry of Jesus' Kingdom of God ministry.

I gave may health in service to this country, and it saddens me to see how some Christians would treat someone such as myself, simply because i cannot bring myself to lie to myself and believe what is written in the Apostles Creed.  My atheism goes way back to my childhood when i just couldn't come to terms with the Noah's Ark story.  I tried to find a way to rationalize my doubts in the Virgin Birth (Why is Joseph's linage even written in the 1st chapter of Matthew?)......  but in the end i had to be truthful.

This Libby Dole commercial really shows how hard it is to be a self professed atheist in North Carolina.  I am disowned for my beliefs, and i could kiss off any thought of running for a political office in this state if i admit it publicly.  Being an atheist shouldn't disqualify a person from holding public office (Kay Hagan professes otherwise)......Libby Dole needs to go back to Kansas.

David,

Your question is answered in scripture....."Many are called, but few are chosen."  If/when you are chosen, you will no longer question those truths of scripture.

i agree, harrysmom-
it's a tent revival meeting in here.  too bad that they aren't really living what they preach.
2blue asked me to go view her movie... a blurb that starts out with Obama as being muslem and proceeds from there.  her belief in this "film" as "proof" displays the utter ignorance that she carries about daily.

she is unable to produce one single  policy platform that Obama has stated and state factual reasons in opposition to it.  she merely thumps her bible and proclaims that we all need  attention to  praying rather than paying  attention.

Good morning all. I am back to work (at work) this Sunday morning trying to salvage what's left of my dwindling business.  Even though I finished paying of my $68,000 mortgage 15 years ago and still live in my 1200 sq ft house for the last 25 years, where we raised all three of our kids, apparently some really wise people decided there should be a shortcut for people who wanted what I have...except they wanted the house house to be bigger, newer, and nower.  Well, it turns out, there are no short cuts to years of hard work and commitment.  And, as it turns out, the only quick path to the American has indeed become the American nightmare for those of us left holding the bag for the idiots of the world.  Hey, Obamarama...Is that the kind of fair you're talking about..Anyway, an especially good morning to self-labeled Joe the Idiot.  You are 100% correct Joe.  I was drawn to the Republican Party because of my deep interest in racism.  Good catch.  By the way, I probably am a racist to a certain extent, but I'm not sure.  Can you please define it so I can finally be sure?
Thanks

It's too bad Obama doesn't practice what he preaches.  He has an aunt living off the government (us) and claims he didn't know she was illegally here.  Now he issued a statement saying he didn't know she was here illegally (he is a lawyer) and the law should deal with her.  Where is his "helping neighbors and redistributing the wealth" attitude.  ha!  we see he is all BS and this is a perfect example!  He wants everyone else to do this while he lives in his $1MM+ mansion and helps no one.  According to his tax returns, he has given only 3 to 5% to charities.  what does this say about him?  At least McCain lets relatives live in some of his homes.  But hey, if Obama gets in, the idiots who voted for him will soon find out!  Liberals need to wake up! 

Your question is answered in scripture....."Many are called, but few are chosen."  If/when you are chosen, you will no longer question those truths of scripture.
DS....So, i'm not chosen?
 

W.,
I was up late last night on my son's laptop and somehow lost again an eloquently worded blurb that was intended to illuminate all readers..I pressed enter and was rejected and the blurb was lost.  I muttered %&@$@$*&% aloud and went off to bed.  Anyway, I'll forgo the other points I was trying to make and just repeat herein that whatever our differences may be that I and my family are indebted to you for your service and sacrifice to this nation and to us.  Thank You Again David.  You have my deepest respect and admiration.
What I and my family have enjoyed comes at a price.  I try not to forget.

One more comment before I leave to run some errands.....Great points Titus Hunt (137) above.  As I have stated , Obama is so far left that this nation will fundamentally change in a way that will mark the end of the Spirit of '76 for all living and future residents of this nation.  As Biden says, "mark my words on this".  When a nation gives to the poor, the poor become poorer.  They become more unhappy.  It's human nature you know.  Use your heads libs!  Have you ever worked for a poor guy?  I haven't.  Socialism says we'll all work for the government.  Is that what we want?  How 'bout we let the rich create jobs for the poor, and kick illegal aliens out of the country so those American poor can take those jobs.  The more able of these will climb the ladder to where they can be of the greatest benefit to themselves and their employers.  We workers of the world...we middle class who occupy the trenches..do indeed exploit our employers.  It is not a one-way street.  I don't want what the rich have.  I just want to keep what I have honestly earned.  That makes me a conservative.  It has nothing to do in the end about God or racism.....just simple, common sense, right and wrong in the real world.

Tankerton, you have so much integrity!  That was very nice.

All of our troops are precious.  I am quite sure, none want to go to war or kill.

My son is going to Bosnia, soon.

As I told Dave, the other was a s.e.a.l

I like to refer to him as "my baby seal!"

Plug your ears toe, or close your eyes, don't look...no peeking....

I Pray every morning for out troops. For their salvation, for their safety, and for wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

It is very sad that some may not come home.  Does that mean my prayers or the prayers of others were not answered?

No. I believe, when it's our time to go home, it's our time to go home.

I have already discussed this with my boys.  They know, when I go, not to be angry at God and best of all, I told them, "Look at it like I am on vacation and you will see me again, soon"

As much as it pains me to think they may go first, I will not blame God.  He is not the only force working on this earth, DUH

They know that too.

Right back at you Blue.  Your sons will of course be in my thoughts...and my heart-felt thanks go to you and them.  Without people like you,  where would this nation be?  I tremble at the thought.

It's ironic to me Tank,  that the person who is telling us, what we should do, many of us already do this!

Call it charitable contribution, tithing, it's all same, same.

The guy who states we are selfish, for not wanting to let them dictate who we feel compelled to give to, doesn't give himself!

He's the gift that keeps on giving, to himself!

Anyway, I give much and have not much.  I do not say that to boast. I say that humbly. 

It makes me feel very good to know my money helps,  hurricane victims, children being abused or starving, soldier's coming home from war with severe injuries are being helped, soldier's families are being helped, or a church who takes care of a multitude of these issues, is getting my money.  Money, isn't ironic, that is the most important thing on this campaign at present and the LOVE of Money, that will end up taking many folks, down.

Dave, I hope this gets through this time. I wrote a longer piece before that didn't make it for some reasons.
But in response to why Jesus called out to God on the cross and felt forsaken.
What I believe is that Christ REALLY died totally. He took on death for all who would believe in Him, and at the moment of death on the cross he was separated from God. He was separated from LIFE.  God really did sacrifice his Son. He killed Him for us, and Jesus agreed to the sacrifice...because they are ONE.
A way to think about this is that God saw what a wreck we were, and came down to us in "person".....They are the same, Jesus and God. But when we see Jesus, although we are also seeing God, we don't see all of God. there is more to God than what we see in Jesus....but Jesus is all we can understand.  Anyway, Dave, this is what I believe....is When Christ went through death for us, He changed it.  And that was a dieing like no other. I think people can still die if they don't want to choose life, but now that Christ did this thing for us, we don't die. We just let go of the failing body....Spirit knows spirit.....and spirit lives.

I read some comments that this blog has turned into a tent revival.
Funny. It's so amazing how many blogs have this exact strain throughout, but there are those who are limited to only the physical... as though what we see happening in the world is separate from what is happening in the spirit. but for some people....they can't get beyond their brain's capacity. 
 

God committed suicide?
God id truly bizarre

2bluestar,
I posted a comment on your website...the tea party one?
 

(God....is truly bizarre.)
If we attempt to go beyond our brain's capacity,
well we'd be just guessing,
or creating a fantasy.
But that's my dilemma.....i just have no capacity to lie to myself.
-Not that you'd be lying to your self in matters of faith.....
i am sure you are convinced of its reality.
But i just can't convince myself of that.

David, come on man. You have given a sacrifice yourself. You know the difference. God came to us and died FOR us. Suicide has connotations that have to do with despondency. Sacrifice has to do with love.

When I became interested in the eastern religions years ago, and still considered myself a Chrstian, I learned alot. There is alot in the faith of Ghandi. But during that exploration, I tried to allow people to talk with me so I could really understand their view. Respectfully I say that this isn't how you have presented yourself here. Rather there is quite an undertone of mocking here. Remember, you and I are talkng about the most important person in my life. If it's such a turn off to you, then don't pose as someone who is really interested...
I will be who I am with someone else. I mean it. I love Jesus very much. Please don't expect me to give you opportunities with me to put Him down.  If you care to really talk, alright. Otherwise...  

Tankerton and Blue-- You guys are completely correct in your thinking.  For some reason liberals are of the opinion that we need to be an entitlement country.  they have either no clue or don't put much value in having pride in receiving pay for a hard day's work to feed their families.  it sometimes takes more effort than most people are willing to do so the liberals want us hardworking folks to just give those who choose not to work like we do all of our money.  apparently, from what i'm reading on some of these posts and in other places, liberals would rather the government decide who gets our money, and the very core of the US is being thrown out the door.  the liberals don't seem to understand that the government does not manage any program efficiently and the costs to run the programs are ridiculous because of government waste.  if i give the government $100, they spend $99 in administrative costs (waste) and administer $1 of my hardearned money to people who may or may not need it.  now the $99has gone into a blackhole and hasn't helped anyone.  so my conclusion is that the liberals love wasting our money and don't care about this country.  however, they love to call republicans selfish for wanting to give/help to charities/people of our choosing because we understand where the money needs to go to do the most good.  Obama is a perfect example of giving very little of his own money but preaching to others about how they should be willing to give.  So who is being patriotic now??????????  ha!  this is an example of what is to come i'm afraid.  they are all rhetoric and use scare tactics because they have nothing else.  some republicans in recent years have also fallen into this category, and we need to get the "true" conservatives back into government. 

i appreciate our men in uniform.  they are protecting our freedoms.  we can honor them by voting McCain into office so that he can clean up the wasteful spending and make experienced decisions in fighting for our freedoms while keeping our military safe.  Let's see what can Obama contribute?  duh!  he can memorize lines and shake hands.  whoopee!  that gets us nowhere.

David, if you consider what our brain is capable of for a moment, it helps.
Look up at the sky....and try to comprehend with your brain that it has no end. We can't even comprehend what we see....Try to think about "time" and try to wrap your brain around eternity. It can't be done. Eternity is of God, and our brain isn't.
We limit ourselves if we are confined to logic. Einstein understood that. Logic is a tool for us to use for the earthly, but left to our own understanding, we are like horses with those blinders on.
 Faith is a gift from God when we admit honestly that we can't do it.
 We can't make faith happen for us. That's what I hear from you ...that you are trying to get into belief through logic's door.
...but the way I undestand it ....from how it happened with me....is that we realize that we don't have the ability to comprehend...we accept our limitations....we come to the wall of what we can know...and I, who had always considered myself a smart person...and all that....realized I couldn't do it, and it was getting serious here...so I GAVE UP.
The minute I did that...the instant in fact....I realized I had been trying to control things...and I realized where I had erred. I had taken the responsibility for the talents God had given me and took the reins.....and just didn't know why I couldn't make it work.
I gave up...and that's when I told God...alright...whatever you want....not my way...your way...
and that was the turning point for me. I have had several tune ups since....and it is still happening....

Susan....if there is a god (as an atheist, i can speculate).....my understanding of this entity is that it would be a bit more rational that the god depicted in the christian bible. 
-Not to be mocking....rather, i challenge all to really read the bible.....that's all.  I read it, and i get a lot out of it!

Titus.....again,  There are so many things wrong with this statement:

"..... don't put much value in having pride in receiving pay for a hard day's work to feed their families.  it sometimes takes more effort than most people are willing to do so the liberals want us hardworking folks to just give those who choose not to work like we do all of our money."

-that i don't know where to start.  I actually doubt that in terms of calories of effort expended, few have labored as hard as i have in my short life.  I am now retired (And lovin' it!)....and that IS my pride in my past efforts.  But i realized that i am truly lucky (blessed as the christians like to say);
-not every one is capable of doing what i have accomplished......we are not all created equal. 
No one is asking you to give ALL your money.....we are simply asking those who have prospered to give a FAIR share.  That all.

Susan,(151)
my logic tells me there is more to this universe than i am capable of comprehending......
it may just be that the infinity you used in your illustration above:  "Look up at the sky....and try to comprehend with your brain that it has no end."
-Is nothing more than the sub-atomic space in an atom which is part of a molecule in a whole OTHER universe.....who knows?  I'm simply not equipped to know.
Perhaps something created this reality we call "The Universe".  I suppose i could suspend logic and have "Faith", that this is in fact true.
I could then entertain the possibility that the bible as translated into english is in fact the words of god.  I would then have to entertain the possibility that "The Hobbit" is also true.....

Hold this truth;  Sin cannot be in God's presence.  Hold that thought.

Jesus took the sins of the world upon him.  Whereas "sacrifice" used to be the only way of atonement in Old Testament times, "God sent his only Son, to become the sacrifice, the Lamb, for our sins.  "the law"  and "sin" was put to death at the cross.  All sin. Past, present, future.

Christ gave it freely, it is a free gift to those who accept the gift.

Greater Love hath No man, than he lay down his life, for another.  Our troops know this well.

That weight of sin, was one of the reasons he died so quickly.

Because he became the sacrificial Lamb, and as may know, Jewish Priest would place the sins of the people on lambs, and made sacrifice's for the nation and tribes of Israel at certain times of the year. 

Jesus, became, the sacrifial Lamb that would take away the sins of the world.  

A couple of reasons that Jesus said "My God, why hast thou forsaken me" 
1.  To fulfill scripture so the Jews would know, this was their "messiah"  Psalms 22:1

2. God could not behold him or if you will, look upon him, because of the sin.  Jesus is the true character of God.  He was also a man.  He became a man, so that we could follow his example, prove it can be done, to be tempted, feel pain, feel and relate as all humans do.

Jesus did this willingly, God gave him willingly.

You cannot in all fairness, condemn, criticize, rule out, debate God's Word, unless you can prove, it's not true.

Same with anything else in this world that you try to prove or disprove.

To Judge God or Jesus, you need three witness's.   The Jews falsely came up with 3, false witness's and broke their own law, by having Him crucified, on the Sabbath, which is why they manipulated Pilate, into doing it. 

God's Word, His Son and the Holy Spirit, the "3" witness's, bear witness to the "truth"

This does not mean that Jews are bad!  They are God's chosen people. Some missed the big picture, big time. That's on them. Not us. 

Susan. Got your mssg. on the site but no way to contact you.

Not a problem, just email me at [email protected]

It's not a biggy, it's an address  I never really use and I can always click delete if I get any nasty emails.  

Oh my!

http://www.atlah.org/broadcast/ndnr11-02-08.html

".......Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit!
-Luke 23:46
".....my God, my God, why did you abandon me"
-Mark 15:34
It seems to me....that even though it was many years later that the words were actually transcribed, that for such an important event, the apostles would be in agreement as to his last words, no?

The words are so different, and the message being conveyed in each gospel differs in the message being conveyed.  The Jesus of Luke seems to be chatting with his peers on either side of him (almost like out of "The Life of Brian"), understanding he is merely doing God's will....
Whereas the Jesus of mark's Gospel is in pure agony, and lacks this understanding that Luke gives to him.

"Senator Tarzan?"
-i'm loosing respect.....

David,
First of all...your leap from the Bible (which is humanity's documentation....all gathered writings that were judged by the best councils they had at the time...omitted the ludicrous...and went with what had survived in the oral tradition from different schools of teaching .....it's an account of God's story with Humanity) from the Judeo-Christian perspective.
You make a mighty big leap from believing this to the Hobbit...which is a creative work....there are others like it...but to believe....(in the Greek means to rest your weight upon), is possible if we don't insist that our brain have to accept every single vowel as indisputable....
And I am impressed you have read this Book...
Me too. It's truly my thing...it gets much richer for me as I live.
But listen, Dave...once again that remark about the Bible which admittedly you think is worthy of your study....to compare it to the Hobbit...well, buddy, that just isn't the kind of thing one says in a conversation on an issue that is ...shall we say...at least sacred to one of us.

And one last thing Dave,
The different theologies in the various books of the Gospel come out of different oral traditions that were carried among the followers for some of them fifty years....Paul's letters were the first things written down and gathered, Mark's was the first Gospel....and it reads that way ...like a taking down of notes of what happened.....just keeping the facts straight....then we have Matthew and Luke who take from Mark some parts and each have their own additions.....and then the last , and considered the most advanced Christology.....is John....
so what you have here is an advancing understanding of what the heck happened here.....Oh this is what Jesus meant....The people of God had been hanging around with one another and the Holy Spirit whom Jesus had sent was truly teaching them....as we are still being taught now...

The different accounts of the life and teachings and death and Resurrection were all perceived by different people and they have their angle on Christ.....and there is Paul's take as well....and...well...
that's that.

If you have no conscience, none of this matters. 

If you do, have a conscience, then it does matter.

If you are seeking for "tuth" you will find Him.

Trust me Susan, when i say i mean no disrespect in my inference that the bible is a "creative" work.....borrowed, as it must have been on the life of a great MAN that inspired people. (Speaking NT, of course)
And this is where we differ; for i see Jesus as a man, and you worship him as god.
So i hope you can empathize with my feelings of  isolation as an atheist in this mostly christian society we live in.  I would never want to take the comfort you gain from your faith, and i hope this dialogue can help others understand that it would be the same to be persecuted for one's faith as it is to be persecuted for a lack of faith.  The reasons for persecuting religious minorities are the same for persecuting atheists.

"......so what you have here is an advancing understanding of what the heck happened here.....Oh this is what Jesus meant....The people of God had been hanging around with one another and the Holy Spirit whom Jesus had sent was truly teaching them....as we are still being taught now..."
-This doesn't account for the HUGE disparity in the accounts of some important matters (....like Jesus' last words, or what day Jesus was crucified on).....
it would be the same as if we were just now setting down a Gospel of MLK, or JFK
(some 40-50 years later is the analogy).......we would get the day and the method of killing right.....it's kinda central to the story.
Same with the story of "The Passion".  I find it hard to believe they would get details like his last words or the execution day wrong, oral tradition notwithstanding.
If it is like you say:
"the Holy Spirit whom Jesus had sent was truly teaching them...."
-Then he (Jesus, God?) is playing some kind of joke on us.

David:  everyone should give their fair share.  protecting our country is not free and neither is anything else the government does right or wrong.  therefore, every adult living the U.S. should pay their fair share including poor and rich.  people choose to live in this country and the amount of children they have and the lifestyle they live.  that is why this country is so great!  so everyone should pay their fair share of taxes.  it should not just come from the folks who employ us.  if the government takes more from hardworking folks who have managed to make a dime or two, we are going to see a huge change alright!  there will be no reason for them to try to better themselves any longer if the government is going to take more of what they earn.  so Obama and your friends Pelosi, Frank and Reed may think they can get more money but he has a big surprise headed his way.  there are so many americans that will ensure the government doesn't get it and people will lose more jobs as a result.  don't think for one moment that the government will intrude on people's lives more than it already does without problems arising. 

David:  why should i be willing to give my hardearned money to keep up Obama's aunt when he should be doing it?  he has more money than i do.  this is just an example of Obama's "do as i say and not as i do" philosophy that is becoming evident in his rhetoric.  so you can believe in Obama and the tooth fairy but i choose not to.  Obama is an idiot! 

Titus,
i guess where we differ is the burden that corporate America should pay.  Aware that a tax bill is passed on in the cost of goods and services doesn't seem like a good reason to me for so many large corporations to pay little or no tax....while the middle class and small businesses are hammered.
Trust me. Nancy Pelosi is not a friend of mine......i'd like to see the Speakership changed.  Yet electing a Republican Legislator who in many cases helped write tax policy doesn't seem to be a safe bet.

Oh Titus....
Obama can hardly be an idiot to have risen as far as he has.....
But don't let the polls get to ya.....it's still close, and McCain may yet win, so keep your chin up!
Does Obama's aunt not work?  I haven't heard.....

Gosh, it almost seems that no matter what you say, someone will argue it.

I remember when my son was a little boy, there was a street person, lady, who used to push a shopping cart through the mall parking lot.

We were eating dinner at Golden Coral.  It was raining.  It was his birthday.  We used to see this lady frequently.

All of a sudden, my son, who was 5 years old, darted up out of his seat, ran out into the rain, across the parking lot, to the lady.  Startling her, her pulls his money out of his pocket and gave it to her.

She was surprised and went on her way.

He came running back and sat down to finish eating.  That was his Birthday money.  A few dollars, but he gave it all to her, because "he" wanted to. 

We have more people in this country that do these things all of the time, many don't know they do it.  Many are fed, clothed, housed and no one takes credit for it and no one tells them to do it.

We have enough groups, entities out there, who do this and they do it globally.   I know, I know, someone is going to come along and say........yeah but we kill people too.....so there, I said it for you.

This can go back and forth and back and forth.   What's the point here?

We give from our hearts. 

We render unto ceasar, that which is ceaser's, that being the government. 

But until Nero-bama gets elected,   I would prefer to not pay more in taxes than I have to.  We are over taxed.

And this is America, where we can walk up to someone, offer them food, take them to a doctor, give them clothes and shelter and make a difference, because we were compelled to do it, not because we had to.

Ok...toe,  you can't argue with me about, you know.  I did a pretty good job on this one!

And yes, I taught them to do these things.  By example.

Close your eyes toe, don't read this....I feel it comin!

If McCain / Palin win this election, you will know who helped.

Hint:  He parted the Red Sea!

tee hee!!

You too Dave.

Why would god want McCain to be president?
i don't get it.

David you truly are a literalist.
HOw can you even bear to live in this world if you have to prove things empirically before you allow yourself to believe they are real? Our system of proof which is based on evidence as defined by sight and agreement does not accept the existance of love...did you know that?
to respond to the inconsistencies you have zoomed in on with the Gospels...discrepincies of the Passion when it took place....these writings were for reasons....they were responses to what was happening at the time in that community....and in one Gospel Jesus is crucified at the time of Jewish Passover...because the writer is making it clear that Christ is the sacrificial Lamb...the fulfillment of their Jewish teachings....
The exact hour isn't the story.....what He did was.

And about that atheism is persecuted...
I really think it isn't persecution...as much as distrust...no foundation for trusting that people can relate to...however....in time with knowing you and learning your character I doubt you would have problems...same as people even if they claim to be Christian like Obama or Dole...once they flash that knife in the vest....maybe we don't see it ever again...but we know we saw it and we are alert.

Character is a big thing with people...If one doesn't have an accountability to an authority that will govern them when nobody is watching....then people generally keep their distance...and you can't make them do otherwise...
If say...one is a rationalist....well we can rationalize just about any kind of behavior....
I used to counsel this guy who had been in prison for a couple of things......who wanted to come into my church...and I said, sure, I thought it was a great idea... but don't get all out of shape if everyone doesn't jump through hoops for you...right off. ...Hang in there...let them get to know you. He was a sincere guy ,,,and that is what he did...He got involved in this mission team that went down to New Orleans after Katrina....and got a hold of this whole Christian living...not just talking about it...but doing it.., and after that they understood.
But if he had insisted on them receiving him....even though there was reason to suspend ....what shall we call it...coming to a conclusion....it wouldn't have washed. You can force people to be civil...but the truth is a lot of people who say they aren't Christian....or have any faith for that matter....actually do....they just haven't unpacked it yet....
And for someone to actually come out and say...I don't believe in God...
sounds like they are either rebels for the sake of being rebellious....or that they are just not very wise...
Lots of people don't know exactly what they believe...but they know something is up...even that much faith has accountabilit attached to it.

Thank you Titus. Ditto. 

Dave....................LOL   Good night

Night Sue Ellen!

David:  here's the part that you are missing.  corporations will NOT pay more in taxes.  they will pass the taxes along to me and you in the form of higher prices that we pay for everything.  the corporations just consider that a part of their costs and add it to their products.  it won't be a problem for them at all.  if they can't make up for the higher tax burden, they will lay off people.  that is just normal everyday business, and unless we live in a communist country, the government can't do anything about it.  so in the end, we normal folks will be the ones suffering and paying the higher taxes no matter what level of income you are in.  so we either are smart about managing this economy or stupid about managing it!  If we are stupid and want to pay higher prices for groceries, clothing and everything else while more jobs are being lost, we can elect that idiot Obama!

And oh yes, Obama is an idiot but i do have to give him credit for being smart enough to convince people his plans will work and horrified that there are those who actually believe him.  he can give good speeches and memorize lines but has never accomplished anything in his life that could qualify him to be President.  that is sad but true. 

in the pictures i saw of Obama's aunt, i don't think she is able to work.  she was walking with a walker/cane and is elderly.  where is Obama and what will be his excuse this time?  he has an excuse for everything else in his life so what about this?  everyone is not perfect and we all do things we regret.  however, this is happening right now and Obama did not deny his aunt was here and living off of the government.  he just denied knowing her legal status.  what a nice guy!  he is a creep!

Susan writes:
"HOw can you even bear to live in this world if you have to prove things empirically before you allow yourself to believe they are real?"
-i was an engineer, empirical data was kinda important in my work.

Love?  Chemical reactions in the brain.......

"The exact hour isn't the story.....what He did was."
If he dies in a state of despair in Mark, and dies comforted by god in Luke......then we have 2 different Christs, don't we?   Either Jesus died knowing he god or he didn't....which is it?

Mistrust isn't persecution?  If the mistrust is misplaced, then it is persecution.

Titus writes:
" liberals want to take the lazy way out and let the government take control of our lives."
-This simply isn't true.  I'm a liberal, and i'm certainly not lazy!
What we want is to ensure freedom and opportunity for all.....

177
"it won't be a problem for them at all.  if they can't make up for the higher tax burden, they will lay off people.  that is just normal everyday business, and unless we live in a communist country, the government can't do anything about it."
-So corporate power really does have the last say.......so in a de facto way, they are the real power, huh?
If any government attempts to control business, that government would be communist by definition?  Wow, we are screwed!

by the way, Obama's talks about helping neighbors and how people who make over a certain amount (who knows what that amount is now because it has changed several times) should be willing to give more because it is patriotic.  do you call Obama patriotic for giving only 3 to 5% of his income to charities while living in his beautiful mansion?  i don't live in a mansion but maybe everyone else does?  do you call him patriotic for leaving his elderly aunt out to dry?  do you call Obama patriotic for saying that the law should be followed in his aunt's situation, and he has not lifted a finger to try to help her?  His aunt also gave $269 to Obama's campaign.  she is living in low income housing and can't afford to give but sacrificed for him.  Now who is patriotic now?  Obama is full of BS and people should wake up and start realizing this!  but hey, don't pay attention to the current events, go through life with blinders on, and vote for him. His crooked politics will be right in front of our faces and then when people are literally starving what are people going to say then?  if elected, Obama, Pelosi, Reed and Frank will be our leaders! 

180
working as a community organizer when he could have taken a Wall Street job for 10X more cash is something Titus.......
not exactly being stingy, is it?

David:  we will be screwed--yes!  maybe you are now getting the picture?  we the people decide whether we buy the products of companies so communism does not fit.  we control whether they stay in business or not.  however, most people need jobs and companies are the backbone of our economy so........... raising taxes on corporations will devestate me, you and everyone else.  I can agree or disagree but it will not change the fact that Obama's idea of "sticking it to the rich" will not work.  Obama also understands this but knows it will win him votes.  that is why he is a crook!  

David:  Being a community organizer in the most criminal political arena in the US gave him the experience he needed.  he received the backing of powerful folks who could push him up the ladder while learning ways to manipulate people into believing and doing anything he said.  his goal is to be president, and he may have his shot thanks to his chicago associates and those who vote for him.  so wallstreet would not have put him in this position.  his poor elderly aunt was left out in the cold!

Gosh Titus.....
Corporations should be able to extort our government into getting the tax rate they desire (Zero it seems)?
Doesn't sound to awful patriotic to me my friend.

Did someone say Godfather?  Must've been dreamin.....

Here you go.  This is for you Dave.

http://havestethoscopewilltravel.blogspot.com/

You guys keep the noise down.  

Big Brother's watching!

David,
I like ping pong, but not in discussions...that are fruitful.
I think a great commentary on the New Testament by Mickey Efird would give you great food for thought.
Also the autobiography of C.S. Lewis.....who was a scholar in reason and stuck like you...until he found a way out...
Anselm the theologian before Augustine ....had a way of using reason to introduce people to Christ.....I was impressed....
Augustine...too for that matter...who really was quite a guy....a veritable low life before he turned another way....changed Christianity as we know it....

Try some of these...I can tell you are smart.
I am sorry about what you said concerning love...being a chemical reaction....sounds more like hormones to me.

Bill Maher....is really making himself crazy trying to prove that people of faith are crazy....or idiots...
He is convinced that since he doesn't know.....then nobody else can know...He said he was sure that nobody really knows ...because of that fact, because he hasn't had the experience of faith....he is certain that other people's faith is delusion.
he is basically judging other people's relationship within existence by his own....
And as you know as an engineer....that is a whole way of looking at things....it comes with semantics and concepts attached that inform your whole life.....and if you tried to explain it to someone who was say, a singer and not matematically inclined....it would probably be very difficult.

........and many of those that came back will never be the same.
http://havestethoscopewilltravel.blogspot.com/

David:  Unfortunately, lobbyists are out there for the "big boy" corporations.  Being patriotic has nothing to do with business.  i don't know where in the world that came into play since companies are in business to make profits.  Patriotism is not in the mix.  but hey, patriotism isn't what Obama is about either!  how Obama can get away with not being patriotic and being a decent human being in giving more to charities and helping his own family is beyond me!  and above all why do his followers not care that is his not practicing what he preaches?  this is to weird for me!

i don't think i'll be on Obama's Christmas list this year!  maybe i'll be invited to one of his parties!  ha! 

It's called, Hypocrite and that's putting it, mildly.

Oh my Gosh!  Hey Susan! 

"Try some of these...I can tell you are smart.
I am sorry about what you said concerning love...being a chemical reaction....sounds more like hormones to me."

Just saw that! LOL

My perspective as a nurse and one who has experience with,  The H word..............you may be on to somethin

2BlueStarMom - your comment #190.
You are absolutely correct.  why aren't people talking about this?  i don't understand.  this shows obama's true character even if you take all of those horrible associations of his out of the mix.  somehow though his supporters make up excuses for him.  maybe that helps them sleep at night?  knowing they are voting for a man who will ruin this country makes them happy?  i'm so confused!  People can't be this dumb, or can they?  McCain has to win or we will really be a starving nation.  
 

Susan.....
I read lots of stuff...."Palestine in the time of Jesus....Social Structures and Social conflicts" by Hanson&Oakman is my present read.  Since i retired, i've read a good many books on 1st century Palestinian history, among some artistic pursuits.
I try to understand what exactly was going on in those villages in Galilee....but one thing i understand is that Jesus that walked the hills of Galilee was a man, and the Jesus of the Gospels was a god.....in much the same was the emperor of Rome was a god.

Titus,
Hey....how are you?
It's late and I just have a moment...but I have been following your line here about this man who has got these vulnerable people...bamboozled...(isn't that one of his words?)....they are just prey to any little god that presses their button.....he mixes in whatever works...not bothering to make sure the arguments are consistant with his life...or even if they make sense with a previous arguemnt....because people if they aren't at least used to thinking.....to judging from a safe distance....and then asking themselves....why is he telling me that...what is his agenda..?
They are such victims.....and many are going to be lead right over the cliff......But I am praying that there will be a portion of this lemming bunch that will pick themselves up after the big let down.....and get on with their journey.
I have been speaking to 2bluestar...about this...I see it as a spiritual warfare for humanity....it's HUGE to me..and I don't overeact ....in this kind of thing....I am not a fundamentalist by any means....
All I know is that unless we are all keenly alert ....we too can be played....jump on the bandwagon of the guy we prefer and let that whole mind game work on us....pit us against whole peoples....connect prejudice with socialisim with democratic with lazy with anti american with ....and we have such a high wall to dismantle...
I think I have lost my train of thought....gotta go to sleep.

2BlueStarMom--your comment #190
You are absolutely correct.  why aren't people talking about this?  i don't understand.  this shows obama's true character even if you take all of those horrible associations of his out of the mix.  somehow though his supporters make up excuses for him.  maybe that helps them sleep at night?  knowing they are voting for a man who will ruin this country makes them happy?  i'm so confused!  People can't be this dumb, or can they?  McCain has to win or we will really be a starving nation.  

Hey guys.  all of the sudden i can't get my posts to go under Titus Hunt so i'm now using Jack.  Hope this works.

2BlueStarMom--your comment #190
You are absolutely correct.  why aren't people talking about this?  i don't understand.  this shows obama's true character even if you take all of those horrible associations of his out of the mix.  somehow though his supporters make up excuses for him.  maybe that helps them sleep at night?  knowing they are voting for a man who will ruin this country makes them happy?  i'm so confused!  People can't be this dumb, or can they?  McCain has to win or we will really be a starving nation.  

Hey guys.  all of the sudden i can't get my posts to go under Titus Hunt so i'm now using Jack.  I don't know which posts will show up.  Hope this works.

2BlueStarMom--your comment #190
You are absolutely correct.  why aren't people talking about this?  i don't understand.  this shows obama's true character even if you take all of those horrible associations of his out of the mix.  somehow though his supporters make up excuses for him.  maybe that helps them sleep at night?  knowing they are voting for a man who will ruin this country makes them happy?  i'm so confused!  People can't be this dumb, or can they?  McCain has to win or we will really be a starving nation.  

David...good to hear about those reads of yours...really.
The thing that is most striking to me when it comes to the difference between the accounts of what Christ did...where he lived ...even what he taught.....
is what happend to the disciples before and after His Resurrection.
If the Resurrection isn't real, then there isn't any Chrstian faith...since we were first named....Easter people....or Resurrection people....
These disciples were actually kind of thick ...until AFTER the Resurrection....then they got it...
And that is what happens to us still....we try to get what this guy Jesus is about....and we see some evidence of His light....his greatness....but he only a great teacher until He appears to us Resurrected.
I am praying for you in this....because it does happen...in a way that is always perfectly suited to your personality....if you want it enough.

You have to want it more than anything. More than being right.

"You have to want it more than anything. More than being right."  or left

Susan:  it is a scary time for all republicans right now because obama has gotten so many people to believe him.  if he becomes president, we will all suffer.  i think some think he is their savior.  i really don't think a lot of people are thinking for themselves anymore because obama has no record to speak of and has had no experience for people to judge him on.  so now people are taking him at his word and as we can see, his word is worth nothing.  it is crazy!   
2BlueStarMom--your comment #190
You are absolutely correct.  why aren't people talking about this?  i don't understand.  this shows obama's true character even if you take all of those horrible associations of his out of the mix.  somehow though his supporters make up excuses for him.  maybe that helps them sleep at night?  knowing they are voting for a man who will ruin this country makes them happy?  i'm so confused!  People can't be this dumb, or can they?  McCain has to win or we will really be a starving nation.  
 

P.S. Dave

It's such a big thing....having faith...that you have to want it more than being cool or accepted...more than you want control ...more than how it's going impact all you used to think.....
I can tell you this....once it happens ...God is able to turn everything that has happened to His purpose....make it count for good....use it all.

I am hoping this for you...

David 138

Sorry, I've been visiting my dieing mother-in-law all day.  You are correct David.  You have not been chosen (yet, at least).  But it isn't too late David.  You have a lot of head knowledge, but you lack heart knowledge (faith).  You spend so much of your time and energy trying to disprove God's existence.  I know He is speaking to you David.  When you go to bed at night, and there is nothing else to occupy your thoughts, He speaks to you.  He loves you David, and wants you to love Him.  He will not force you to love Him, but He will not stop loving you.  Choose Him, and He will choose you!

If you haven't already, try reading "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell.  I think you'll get a lot out of it. 

Well DS, if god is talking to me.....
-it's to say:  "Remain skeptical!"
i was raised christian, and my 2nd wife was "Born Again".....i even joined her church. 
From the time i was 6 years old. i was skeptical of the Noah's Ark story...
"-No boat can hold ALL those animals, besides, how would a lion hunt?"

So on my dying day when we may meet, i'll ask:
"Why such silly head games dude?"

Oh!....DS, Susan, 2BLUESTARMOM;
-thanx for trying, i know your hearts are in the right place....
And get out and vote!
(even if it is for the wrong guy)
Leave a message at my website....we'll discuss this more!

David,

I'm not playing silly head games.  I think you're the one playing silly head games, but they're with yourself.  How many times must you see and hear the truth before you finally believe?  You know all of the answers, but you allow your limited logic to get in the way of being who God made you to be.  All of us have wondered how Noah could have gotten all of those animals on the ark, or how Moses could have parted the sea.  But we also know that with God, ALL things are possible!  So we really don't have to wonder about how He does anything that He does.  All we have to do is to believe Him.  That doesn't mean we don't ask questions, or continue to search for answers to life's questions.  He gave us a brain, and He expects us to use it.  He isn'tr afraid of our questions.  He is very capable of providing answers to them "if" we are serious about finding out.  But, He will not lie to us.  He will show us the truth, and wait for us to act on it so that He can show us more truth.  Our little minds aren't capable of understanding it all at once.  We would explode.  I think Susan, BlueStarMom and I have been here for you David.  It isn't a coincidence.  You have everything that you need.  It's now (as it always has been) between you and God.  Forget the past David, and look to a future of REAL fulfillment with Him.  And I will look forward to meeting you someday.

DS....
So on my dying day when we may meet, i'll ask:
"Why such silly head games dude?"
Oh, i never meant to infer YOU were playing silly head games....quite the contrary, i think your heart is really in the right place!
But my understanding of religion would attribute silly head games to god......so that's my cross to bear, and i do it with with all honesty. 

"but you allow your limited logic to get in the way of being who God made you to be. "

Maybe(if there is a god.....)
-this is exactly who it wants me to be!  'Cause if there is a god, this is how it made me.

See y'all after the election.....got some "community service" (-not court ordered either), to render!

Keep it going...  as we move closer to socialism on our way to BHO's form of marxism this country will move to third world status.

To my dear friends.  I never saw this before.

It's called, The Third Jihad.  30 minutes long. 

Please, watch this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a11RyysChYc

Looks like Nero-bama took these videos down on youtube.

How many does this make now?

Censorship is not even close to what this action is.

Fighting4,
Steeeeerrrrrike!  You are on the money Sir!  We are dangerously near to being the third world nation that you predict.....so near that I am quite sure that my toilet flushed anti-clockwise this morning......Hey, c'mon, it can't be that bad...at least it still flushes...And when it stops flushing, just tear some wood off your ex-neighbor's foreclosed, empty home and build yourself an outhouse...Indeed, this country is in limbo for sure...How low can we go?
Also, do you guys remember a fad product a few years back called the "Pet Rock".  It was nothing more than a smooth river rock placed in a small box with holes punched in it, with some fake nesting material inside.  The amazing thing is that it sold for a short while like hotcakes.  The product did nothing.  It was purely the result of marketing... a shiny, well presented package, void of any meaningful content.  I call the democrats guy the new "Pet Barrack".  The parallels are too simple to ignore.

My God.  I am in tears.  This one is very, very,  hard.

http://www.obamamustsee.com/

So how can Catholic democrats bring themselves to vote for Obama?
The reasons to run from this candidate are countless and overwhelmingly clear.  Blue, the death of common sense and common decency and respect for life has been hard to watch in this country as well....wow.

Dedicated to THE "FEW" CYBERFIGHTERS FOR AMERICA,
like 2nd Bluestarmom:
   Because I don't have a "boss" on what I write down, I'm just not talking as a cyberstrategist, it is easy to know voting bho will be against God's abortion survivor littlebabies, and as $ociali$tState$ (cuba, iran, germany, libland...etc. delay "man's punishment, for a while")...
AND THEIR POPULATION WHO LET THEM COME TO POWER FIRST, will pay a celestial dimension punishment, for not rebelling against this foes, starting with many, many years of "popular""$y$tem", even "their own "capitali$m" (fannie, freddy...)"...
   Warning to all Americans:
DO NOT BE AN ACCOMPLICE OF libland, helper of the terrorists and enemies of the USA...
vote for life, vote for American oil (prosperity the lib won't give to your family),
for the economics,
institutions,
God at schools, courts... 
(libland out) to bring the kids Creation's evolution...
   Protect your homeland, vote Mcain-Palin
live libs face God's punishment alone, if man can't bring 'm to justice
do not fall along them, do not let their rethoric of socialism or death "cath you"...
the u$$r was atheist, wich means NO G O D
do you understand the magnitude of power facing this socialists?, help this magnitude of power, help God's armies, they fight both, fisically and intellectually, become into an US soldier, or at list e-share your intelligence...
    

Interesting....coincidence I suppose...."212" is the boiling point degrees Fehrenheit of water....So, somebody has boiled over for sure here.  The other possibility is that perhaps a smidge of serious racism still exists in pockets somewhere, or a sly, witty lib has posted this so as to help make their point that racism only exists on the redneck right.

you see/, want to lower our intellect you lib old cheaptrick, write down on castro's grandma toiletpaper your comments, there you match with the thinking...
you go to time out, write down: do not offend/abuse the terror helper, do it 2008 times, ok?
and, I, as a cyberprophet, name you f/u, flowered under...

Hi Tank!  Just voted!  Took my aunt with me and helped her as well.  She is partially blind so I had to help her.  I told her afterward I voted for BHO and she hit me! hahahaha

Then I told her the truth.  Well, looks like things got a little weird around here?

Okay.............whatever 213

Yes, things got pretty whack around here.  Good for you for voting and getting your Aunt to the polls as well.   Blue, this thing ain't over 'till it's over.  I can't wait to vote tomorrow and then sift through the reports as
the day matures.  I feel like we're on the eve of being invaded by a foreign
enemy..as if my nation and family and friends are truly at peril...in harm's way, so to say.  I fear they are. This is indeed a very strange time to be alive....BUT, good,  intelligent, wise people still do exist in America and I will place my faith in their ability to  see it and us through until Wednesday.  After that, if the news is bad, we'll need to turn things around if possible.
Keep the Faith Kid..I know you will.

Tank. I hear you loud and clear.  

I have predictions, but can't post them here.  A few of them, is truly discernment, I believe.

For the record, in case it goes the other way, I have hundreds of American Flags from my old store. 

If you don't have one, you may want one. Our flag will be changed very soon.
That is just the beginning and perhaps it is minor compared to the rest.
"This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life so that you and your children may live."
Deut. 30:19

I'm finding it almost impossible to understand why many Christians do not tremble at the gravity of this issue of life and how many have shown such a lack of compassion for the unborn, as well as the other issues of morality.

No, God is not republican or democrat, nor is this battle between republican and the democrat, but between good and evil, right and wrong, darkness and light. God hates abortion. And one candidate fully endorses it. In fact, he has stated that all limitations will be taken off abortion and partial birth abortion will be re-instated.

You cannot compare abortion to soldiers who have died in the Iraq war volunteering to lay down their lives to stop terrorism and free people being terrorized by their own leader who also closed the door to the gospel of the Kingdom and killed those carrying the message of salvation. This is no longer the case in Iraq. You cannot be against soldiers killing terrorists and trying to stop the breeding ground of wickedness, and then be for mothers and doctors killing innocent, helpless, defenseless babies. This is foolish reasoning.

God, the Author of life, said in the Bible there is a time for war and a time for peace. You dishonor soldiers who sacrificed much when you say they failed. Look to your own heart and ask why are you so willing to allow a man to be president who promises to increase abortion, partial birth abortion, as well as late term abortion for the promise of a tax cut.

Intelligent passion is a good thing, Blue...and good to hear.  Keep up the good work.

yes, intelligent ...being the operative word.
2blue- your statements:
"I have predictions, but can't post them here. "
really?  why is that?   

"For the record, in case it goes the other way, I have hundreds of American Flags from my old store. 
If you don't have one, you may want one. Our flag will be changed very soon."
this is just off-the-wall-nut-job stuff, 2blue.  seriously, totally nuts. 
people may have already told you, 2blue, but in case you may have forgotten: you are seriously batty in the head.  you are evil on legs for the lies you promote.  your religion admonishes those who "bear false witness"-  or are you as selective about which commandments you elect to follow as hoboblah is over which parts of the constitution he feels okay to ignore.

how handy for you both.
does not make you right though. it does show you a hypocrite though.  your dishonesty is repulsive and offensive.

Toe, with what will you replace Christianity?  Be careful. I do not share Blue's faith.  But I would never try to shake her from it.  Christianity has served well this nation for many centuries.  Religions are not perfect.  Nor are we...far from it.  But if I had to rate religions, Christianity would top the list....especially for this country.  So Toe, just so we're clear..do you not feel more threatened by a mortal who would try to replace relifion to some extent, not in his ability  to offer comfort,  but in his ability  to exert power over their lives?
Your Obama, your savior, your messiah, is running for the President of the World.  His ego and wreckless ambition have not found their boundaries as of yet.  His marketing logo is embarrassing to us and should be to him.
He is too young and too biased against his own nation to take it's majority to heart.  He cares not of you, or I, or this nation.  He cares only for himself.  We are screwed, my friend, if your sage takes the stage.  He will change America because he hates it...not because he loves it.

Here's one to sleep on, all:

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You
cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You
cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You
cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer
down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting
class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by
taking away people's initiative and independence. You
cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they
could and should do for themselves."            
 Abraham Lincoln

Good Night All...tank

Toe - I have read many of your posts over the past few weeks and there is only one conclusion here...  you are an educated idiot.  One of those elitist people who only believe your way is the right way.  Are you an extreme Islamist ?  You sure sound like one.  It is because of people like you that make us all want to have conceal carry laws.

Tankerton,  your post reminds me of a joke my friend told me today.  The punch line was very similar to your last post.  Something about the rich guy  that stopped going to the bar.  So now, no one was left to pay the bar tab for everyone else.  Sorry for the snipet - it was a very long joke.

Please bring back Steve Forbes and the 15% flat tax.  We need a fair tax system not a "share the wealth" welfare state.

I can handle 15%   Sounded good to me.  Good night

Toe--Fighting4AmericasSurvival's comment #222 is absolutely correct! 

You are definitely an educated idiot!  You also spread hatred like the plague and don't understand the word "respect."  It is in the dictionary if you need to look it up.  People who think they know it all are always the ones who finish last in the real world.  Discussions are made up of people who listen to others' thoughts.  You can't seem to understand the concept. 

Titus,
I have gotten past my first horror at watching the masses flock to their own destruction, and to contributing to what seems to me to be a fatal turning point for this country.
This generation has not been trained in thinking through for themselves...They insist on fast answers ..solutions....and gratification....instead of seeking answers for themselves.
When we don't know what we have, we don't appreciate it, and that to me is the same as being spoiled.
they were always easy prey, and that is why I know Obama isn't motivated by love. If he were he would be honest and teach, instead of the deceptive and polarizing tactics he has displayed .
Playing chess with a child isn't a challenge.
It was bound to happen.

2 Blue Star,
thanks for your fresh clean eyes and for being a warrior in your perfect style.
Please email me when you feel the urge....and God give you and yours the peace that surpasses understanding.
May this election serve His purpose, may we rise above the petty and always remember we are called to climb beyond our lowest nature.
I have been so caught by this drama....not like anything I have ever witnessed. I know it is more than an historically pivotal happening; it is apocalyptic.

Susan:  i agree with you but still cannot understand it.  we taught our son to think for himself and instilled in him values, morales and a good work ethic.  he strayed for about three years much to our disliking, but he came back stronger and more focused than ever on being a good person.  he is smart enough to think for himself and understands that going with the most popular view is not always the right path.  Apparently, parents are not helping their children grow into responsible adults.  it was a proud moment when my son came to me months ago (without my prompting) and told me why obama's plans were wrong for our country.  i asked him questions just to see if he really understood his stance and i was very proud that he did.  i also told him to vote for the person he thought was best for our country and to vote on his terms and not mine.   
It is hard to standby and watch our country fall prey to someone who does not have our best interests at heart.  it is even harder to watch people who are so selfish only look at obama as what he can do for them.  I want change as well as everyone else but it has to be a positive change that is good for our country and not just for ourselves.  sadly this is what this country has come to. 

you are right in saying obama is not honest.  that is a very nice way of stating it.  he doesn't practice what he preaches and we know this by looking at his poor aunt.  where is the "helping folks" attitude and patriotism there.  he is even willing to throw that poor woman under the bus and let the authorities deal with her instead of trying to help her.  that is someone who is incapable of love for anyone but himself. 

did you hear the latest news?  he will bankrupt coal mines by imposing environmental fees and wants our electricity bills to skyrocket.  how nice of him to want more people to lose their jobs and for people to suffer this winter.  what kind of man is obama and how in the world can anyone vote for him?  that is my question. 

David,
I have come to know you a bit, at least about your plight of what you honestly believe....or can't believe....and about the consequences of that atheism ....among others....and how it impacts your own sense of being.
You mentioned that you couldn't understand why God would make you this way as a thinking man that relied on that (I paraphrase) if God had a problem with that...

I was speaking with someone tonight who had a similar struggle and I remembered what you had said...
And I think God gives us all certain talents.....and expects us to use them...as you have done, but at some point we (as thinking humans) are supposed to challenge how far that brain can take us.....

I think we meet God .....at a place when we realize our own limitations.
And I thnk that realization comes from the brain.  but that is as far as the brain can take you....
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of .....

I wish you well. 

Everybody here.
It's the eve of the election, and it has been a mind blower to me.
I can hardly comprehend what I have seen played out in this arena.
What a travesty! The media, the corruption, the incredulous blind lemming behavior, fraud beyond what I ever thought we would smooth over as a people. to my mind, it has been so blatant that I half expected the storm troopers to crash in mid sentence and say, "hold everything, this is criminal....this is not America....this is communism....this is the ENEMY...."
but we are that unaware...I guess.....that uninformed....and unarmed.
I am praying for us all....and I humbly ask that of you who believe in prayer....
May the Lord protect us all....even the dumb dumbs.

Susan--i don't normally share my beliefs on these blogs but tonight calls for it.  i will say a lengthy prayer tonight that somehow our country will come together again for the common good of everyone.  I really hope McCain is elected because it would be a tradegy that we will see our country fall into the hands of a very dishonest government that has the intent to destroy its people.  with obama, pelosi, reed and frank we are facing more hard times.  if obama is elected, he will ruin our country and most of us here know that.      

titus,
I am grateful for the time you have poured into your son so that he has discernment. Being a woman of faith, I also have hope, and my hope is that even those who have been pulled in by this tide, for whatever reason be it selfishness or ignorance or delusion or racially motivated.....my hope is that they will have an opportunity to reassess their candidate and to see some of what a few here have noted.
If it has to be that he is elected before they can see, that might be the only way.
I believe God is in charge.
When I have been my most dismayed and upset at this mess, God reminds me, Watch me work.
I know the truth will out. It always has. Obama has already hit his highest water mark and everyone knows that.
As for your son, now he will be affirmed in his wisdom which is priceless for his formation.
Have to go....if I get a chance I will check in tomorrow.

Susan: 

When facing adversities such as this, faith definitely gets us through.  i can definitely say that i'm am quite perplexed at the people who would actually vote for obama.  i don't think they care or understand what he will actually do to our country.  it is a "me" society unfortunately.  there have been several bloggers in on this site in the short time i've been here that have directed their comments towards how they are going to be helped.  i was asked what McCain would do for a certain person and her family.  when i didn't answer directly (trying to be polite), she asked again.  my response was that my thoughts were directed at helping the country, and that i had a different way to viewing things.   

In football, when a team is behind at the last moments of the game, they might throw a hail mary into the end-zone. So here it is...

In his book The Audacity of Hope, Barack Obama writes:

"I was not raised in a religious household. For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness. However, in her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites.In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well."

I know this is a sensitive subject, but I have doubts about Obama's faith. Not only was this a gut feeling of mine when he first entered the political arena, but it is a question inspired by facts.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with him practicing any religion. I don't even have a problem with him being an atheist. But I do have a big problem when people lie about what they believe in. And as christian, I have a problem with people who use the chistian faith to manipulate people.

Now I know what you might want to do. You want to judge me about judging Mr. Obama. That is fine with me. I admit that I am a terrible christian, and I'll be happy to confess my sins this sunday. And let us pray that I won't ever have to sin in this way again. Now, I'll be fair and exclaim that what Mr. Obama wrote in his book holds no evidence that he is not a christian, but I'm sure many of you can agree that the way one is brought up has a very important impact in one's life. Now if what Obama has written in his book is true, then we must assume that Mr. Obama had to have been converted at some point of his life.

This means that out of all of the religious philosophies Mr. Obama was exposed to, he must have willingly identified that one held the most truth. So now a new question is asked. Who, what, when, where, and how was Mr. Obama inspired to exclusively embrace judeo christian philosophy?

As I searched to find an answer I came accross this article dated back in March, 2007. It was from the Chicago Tribune, a newspaper that is currently endorsing Mr. Obama.

The article can be found here...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-0703270151mar27-archive,0,2623808.story

In the article, a friend of Obama's mother said this...
"She touted herself as an atheist, and it was something she'd read about and could argue," said Maxine Box, who was Dunham's best friend in high school. "She was always challenging and arguing and comparing. She was already thinking about things that the rest of us hadn't."

In 2007 Obama described his mother as "a Christian from Kansas." "I was raised by my mother," he continued. "So, I’ve always been a Christian."

You can find the quote in this article.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/22/531492.aspx

At this point I was in disbelief, but I still had no evidence that Mr. Obama was not a christian. I had not answered any of the '5 W's'. To be fair, we are talking about his mother's faith, but why is he painting different pictures about who his mother really was?

I still needed to figure out when Obama was converted to get a better understanding. The only record I found was in the same article above... "But I'm a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ and have been there 15 years," Obama says.

It appears that Mr. Obama practiced christianity exclusively for 15 years in the Trinity United Church of Christ.

So it looks like I had lost. The man is a christian because he goes to church right??? Well... it seemed that way until the infamous Rev. Wright entered the spotlight.

Now we all know that all churches are a little bit different and what is important is that they worship christ right? Well... this particular church stands out due to the fact that they practice "black liberation theology".

WHAT??? WHAT THE DEVIL IS THAT???

According to the churches website they believe this... "We are a congregation which is Unashamedly BLACK and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the BLACK religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an AFRICAN people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of SLAVERY, the days of SEGREGATION, and the long night of RACISM. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a BLACK worship service and ministries which address the BLACK Community."

The website can be seen here...
http://www.tucc.org/

?????????????? I don't want to appear that I want to knock down this church. My question is WHAT ATTRACTED OBAMA TO THIS CHURCH??? Obama was raised by a white mother who what appeared to be agnostic rather than atheist. Or wait... she was a white christian from Kansas. HUH? WHAT? I'm confused! However, she was very educated, and there is no doubt that Mr. Obama is very educated as well. I just don't see how Obama fits into the church's philosophy? BUT, to be fair, I have no proof that Obama is not what he says he is. According to Mr. Obama's website, he has a degree from Harvard and he began is career as a civil rights activist, or a comminity organizer.

Before I continue, there is something you should know about atheism and agnosticism.

Today, the atheist movement is growing thanks to popular figures like Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher, and the infamous Dr. Richard Dawkins.

These individuals are very ANTI-RELIGIOUS. The claim that people of faith are dellusional, and that they hear voices in their heads. They claim people of faith believe in old fairy tales with no evidence to prove their truth. The main reason they advocate atheism is because they believe faith prohibits one from thinking freely. They claim that faith is just a primitave mechanism that has allowed us to survive for millions of years during our evolution. They believe that religion is the very reason we fight and have war. They claim that we kill one another because we don't believe in the same imaginary friend. They believe that our society cannot progress because people of faith are CLOSED-MINDED.

OOPS...

What did Mr. Obama write in his book?

"I was not raised in a religious household. For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness."

YUP! SOUNDS LIKE THE TYPICAL ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC TO ME.

Many atheist appear to be egotistical elitests. Does that sounds like someone you might know? Well, let's not get too excited. We still don't have proof about Whether or not Mr. Obama is who he claims to be.

I'm stuck. How can I prove the guy may be a fraud? Well. It might be as simple as the scientific method. Now, what I need is a theory, and a theory is not a fact. It is something that can be applied to prove something to be fact.

So here is my nutty conspiracy theory... Let us assume that you are an educated black man from Harvard. You begin your political career advocating civil rights in chicago, IL. To move up the political ladder, you begin as a community organizer in a poor black community. You don't know anyone, and no one really knows who you are. An educated black man knows that the heart of most poor black communities is the church. A church is the perfect place for social networking. In order to maxamize the potential of your political career, you need to know people. A LOT OF PEOPLE. So you choose the largest black church in the community. You find the TRINITY UNITED CHURCH ON CHRIST. There you meet everyone you need to know to advance your civil rights agenda. You now know a lot of people, and a lot of people now know you. Of course because you were raised agnostic, and because you are so educated, you don't buy into black liberation theology. But to get ahead, you need to use the church for social networking. You sit there for 15 years while your political career advances. The day you leave the church is when you realize it has gotten you as far as it could. You leave it because you don't believe in the church's philosophy. You leave it because it doesn't really mean anything to you. It doesn't mean anything because you don't believe in the philosophy of the church. Okay. okay. You're probably thinking, how can you get away with that???

It's simple. If someone questions your faith, you give them the textbook definition of
christianity. If you're a fraud you would say, "I believe jesus died for my sins... blah blah blah." You know the rest.

Okay. Still, what else can he say other than the textbook definition of christianity? Well that's were common sense comes into play. Any person who practices faith knows that we relate to our faith through our life experiences. If you asked me what christianity means to me I would tell you how I see God working in my life everyday. I can tell you stories of how my faith has gotten me through tough times. I can tell you how my faith as allowed me to prosper. I can tell you how faith inspires me to do what I do. ALL IN DETAIL!

SO LET'S SEE HOW MR. OBAMA ANSWERS THE QUESTION. AND LETS SEE HOW HIS OPPONENTS ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!

Mr. Obama's response can be seen here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIigo-FqTpI

John McCain's response can be seen here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bajCyiCVNIA

ANOTHER instance where Obama's faith is questioned can be seen is here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-yUCg0TASc

When Mr. Obama is caught by Keyes, Obama makes an excuse!

In all of these clips, Obama's opponents shared and expressed their personal experiences. In these clips, Obama always makes clear that he joined the christian faith community to advance politically. In these clips, Obama provides A TEXTBOOK definition of christianity. HIS ONLY REASON IS TO ADVANCE POLITICALLY.

MY THEORY EXPLAINS THIS NEXT CLIP ENTIRELY. TEXTBOOK DEFINITION. THE REASON HE JOINED? To advance politically...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4S8APesLLI

IN THIS NEXT CLIP. A DEMOCRAT BY THE NAME OF CONGRESSMAN JERROLD NADLER MAKES THIS STATEMENT!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKV2-NM-xEo

HE SAYS OBAMA WAS NOT "POLITICALLY COURAGEOUS"!

YOU COULDN'T HEAR??? HOW ABOUT THIS CLIP...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg1EpBa6Axg

So all I have is a theory, but it is a theory based on evidence. Obama might only just be the first black president. He just might be the first black atheist/agnostic president. AND the greatest scam on the American people!

ILL LET YOU BE THE JUDGE!!!
I COULD BE 100% WRONG. I'LL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT IT IF THAT'S THE CASE.
~ LOOP

(Sorry for any typos or errors. I was working on notepad.)

Good morning everyone!

I had mixed feeling about my sons joining the military.  It was their choice, I did not encourage nor discourage it. 

When they signed up, there was no disparity to whom they would protect.  That's nice to know.  The very folks who protest and burn our flags, had no effect on their decision and they certainly made no differentiation as to protecting someone who did not believe what they believed in.  They are protecting freedom.   It is service.  Joe Biden calls paying taxes, Patriotic, in a way it is, but then, so is helping others.

I have told them as they were growing up, my life experiences.  They have known my passion for our military. 

I grew up as a little girl, 11 years old, basically, in V.A. hospitals at a time when our military were coming home from Viet Nam.

I would get on a Greyhound bus, every weekend, for 3 hours and go up to the V.A. hospital in Long Beach, Calif. to see my Daddy.

I saw what war did.  It was quite the experience to see from a childs eyes, so much devastation and heartache.

My daddy, was a 100% disabled, paralyzed veteran.  Before his "accident" he was a tall, handsome, active young man, who played with his children, took us everywhere, held down up to 3 jobs at times, but always found time for us.  Fishing, hunting, camping.  He was there.

In 1965 were right in the heat of war.   A terrible war. Not only overseas, but here, at home as well.

For most of my young life,  daddy lived in the Long Beach Veteran's hospital in California. I was at his side every weekend.

Because he was a gunny, USMC Gysgt and because of his Love for his fellow man, he felt like the men in his Ward, were his boys.

He would take his wallet out of his bed stand, give it to me, tell me go to each bed of each man and ask them if they wanted anything, from the canteen (a little store type food place in the V.A.)

Some men answered me, some men just stared out the window and would not look at me.

I made it my mission, to make them smile, to have them look at me, when they were ready.  And eventually, they did. 

That, was my life's lesson, education, motivation which formed a large part of who I am today.

I did not go out and protest the war. I did not spit in the faces of the men or women coming home from war, I did not judge them.

They had enough of that to deal with themselves.

I was just a little girl, who saw people hurting, very deeply hurting, who wanted to Love them and tell them, in my little way, Thank you.  Thank you for coming home. Thank you for the sacrifice.  It's going to be ok.  There is still hope in this country, there is still Love here.

It was very difficult to see these men from ages of 18 and up, lying in a bed, when they were all on a spinal chord injury ward.  Many were paralyzed from the neck down.

It was monumental for me, a little girl, when they finally looked me in the eyes and smiled or laughed at one of my silly little jokes.

That was the way I was raised.  To be there for others if they need you.  

I was my fathers legs, I was my fathers voice and even though he passed away almost 20 years ago now, I am still, "my fathers voice"

I am telling ya'll this because it's this type of fabric that makes up the quilt of our nation.  Many pieces, from many remnants.

I do not judge.  I say how I feel, but with no condemnation.  I may not like something or someone, but I don't hate them, if anything, I pity them.  My family paid the price for free speech and all of my freedoms. 

They paid the price for those who hate them and what they stand for too.  It didn't matter to them then, and it doesn't matter to them now.  They know who they are in this world and what they stand for, is more important and worth fighting for.

After daddy died, I wrote a poem dedicated to our troops and veteran's, past, present and future.

http://my-fathers-voice.blogspot.com/

Semper fidelis, daddy!

Oops, I did it again! LOL

This link

My Father's Voice

http://havestethoscopewilltravel.blogspot.com/

P.S.  toe;   I love you and prayed for you last night.  I know you don't mean to say the things you do.  It's ok.  I have heard alot worse in my life time and have been called alot worse.

They are just words. 

Your heart, only God knows who you really are and how you really feel.

I don't judge you or anyone else.  I don't want that job.

As my dear friend and yours, BHO states so eloquently  "it's above my pay grade"

the fact that you mention that you "prayed for me" says that you seem to feel I need this, 2blue- which IS, in point of fact, judgmental on your part..  mahalo for your prayers if it makes you feel better, it does not effect my day one way or another.

Wow, toe, someday I hope to have an enlightened and open mind just like yours.  When God leaves the Earth, you are what's left....PUN INTENDED!
I believe in a person's right to hate anything he or she wishes to hate.  I believe in self-determination in other words.  But I still am amazed at  your
selection of targets.  C"mon, toe...If you can't open your heart, try opening your mind a bit.

Wow...finally.  After 2 years of this non-stop political foreplay, I finally got to vote this morning.  I am having a cigarette now.

Hello toe;

No, not judgement.  A gift.

judgement - an opinion formed by judging something; "he was reluctant to make his judgment known"; "she changed her mind"
judgment, mind
conclusion, decision, determination - a position or opinion or judgment reached after consideration; "a decision unfavorable to the opposition"; "his conclusion took the evidence into account"; "satisfied with the panel's determination"
opinion, persuasion, sentiment, thought, view - a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours"; "I am not of your persuasion"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?"

A gift or present is the transfer of something, without the need for compensation that is involved in trade. A gift is a voluntary act which does not require anything in return. Even though it involves possibly a social expectation of reciprocity, or a return in the form of prestige or power, a gift is meant to be free.
In many human societies, the act of mutually exchanging money, goods, etc. may contribute to social cohesion. Economists have elaborated the economics of gift-giving into the notion of a gift economy.
By extension the term gift can refer to anything that makes the other happier or less sad, especially as a favour, including forgiveness and kindness.

Of course, you don't have to accept it. 

What good is it if you don't appreciate it or the gift is not to your taste?

It doesn't hurt my feelings.  It wasn't given to hurt yours.

judgement - the legal document stating the reasons for a judicial decision; "opinions are usually written by a single judge"
legal opinion, opinion, judgment
legal document, legal instrument, official document, instrument - (law) a document that states some contractual relationship or grants some right
concurring opinion - an opinion that agrees with the court's disposition of the case but is written to express a particular judge's reasoning
dissenting opinion - an opinion that disagrees with the court's disposition of the case
majority opinion - the opinion joined by a majority of the court (generally known simply as `the opinion')
fatwah - (Islam) a legal opinion or ruling issued by an Islamic scholar; "bin Laden issued three fatwahs calling upon Muslims to take up arms against the United States"
dictum, obiter dictum - an opinion voiced by a judge on a point of law not directly bearing on the case in question and therefore not binding
law, jurisprudence - the collection of rules imposed by authority; "civilization presupposes respect for the law"; "the great problem for jurisprudence to allow freedom while enforcing order"
2.    judgementjudgement - an opinion formed by judging something; "he was reluctant to make his judgment known"; "she changed her mind"

A gift or present is the transfer of something, without the need for compensation that is involved in trade. A gift is a voluntary act which does not require anything in return. Even though it involves possibly a social expectation of reciprocity, or a return in the form of prestige or power, a gift is meant to be free.

In many human societies, the act of mutually exchanging money, goods, etc. may contribute to social cohesion. Economists have elaborated the economics of gift-giving into the notion of a gift economy.

By extension the term gift can refer to anything that makes the other happier or less sad, especially as a favour, including forgiveness and kindness.

This allows the recipient,  no obligatory action.

Hi Tank!  I voted yesterday and already had mine! LOL

Got to keep a sense of humor!  Now more than ever. Good for you Blue!

toe writes "it does not effect my day one way or another".

Toe, the simple fact that you responded to her prayers with these words prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your day was effected...perhaps in a diminutive way...but nonetheless, your day changed because of her prayers.
Toe, everything is tied somehow to everything else.  Blue the butterfly flapped her wings, and you my friend, felt the gentle breeze.  I just proved it.
Stop being so negative....It'll make you bitter and liberal and unhappy.
You deserve better.

Honestly toe, I do not mean to upset you. Truly, I do not.  My heart was in it. 
However, if it makes you uncomfortable, I will no longer mention it on here again.  I don't need to do that.

But for the record, I am keeping you on my  prayer list, every morning.  I don't know what your needs are, but the person you think does not exist, knows.

So I won't mention it again....just know someone whom you don't know, is thinking of you, hoping for you, praying for you.

The End.

@2BlueStarMom

I am glad you are here. You have brought a new dynamic and positivity to Urban Conservative. 

Toe is definitely hard to deal with and has gotten on my nerves more than once during the last 6 months or so, but I think her intentions are good.

Semper Fi and God Bless You all, you too Toe.

tank, you confuse hate with a total lack of interest or need for your god.

i don't need your god or your bible to tell me what to do- no do i live under threat or guilt that if i don't do what your bible insists that you do that i am doomed.  your confusion begins with unfounded belief that i have no ability to figure out what is right or wrong - at any moment i will go out killing people, robbing indivuals of their valuables, beating children and investing in porn or some such nonsense.  what you really need is an atheist friend so that you will have a bit more understanding that we are just fine, tyvm.  we are honest, hard working,  tax paying, educated, responsible parents of responsible children who grow up to be responsible adults and productive members of society.  
for you to continually marginalize those who will not match your beliefs is not only offensive, it quite UN-christian of you.

"it's" ^

Watch Fox news today!   More and more polling places being guarded by "Blank Panthers"  they say they are "security" and intimidating voters..they are carrying billy clubs.  They won't let the press near the voting polls, the people who work at the polls are stopping Republicans who are delegated to make sure the voting is being done ethically, are being stopped from going in buildings. Some Republican voters are voting and Obamas name is coming up after repeadted attempts to vote McCain.

Also, please remember, Obama stated on video, several times, he wants,
a "Civilian National Security Force"

Guess what?  This is what we all have to look forward to, on a mild level today.

If you have not seen this video, watch it. 

BHO's "truth squad" has been successful at having this video, amongst all the other "voices" out there, removed.

See this before they remove it!

http://www.viddler.com/explore/CitizenSlim/videos/2/

#247

That was very kind of you to say.

I know sometimes I get a little carried away. But I am harmless.

I am so very concerned for our country.

Please folks, watch Fox today. Whether you like them or not, they are the only voice for "all" of us, at this time.   No one else is reporting the "truth"

"your confusion begins with unfounded belief that i have no ability to figure out what is right or wrong - at any moment i will go out killing people, robbing individuals of their valuables, beating children and investing in porn or some such nonsense"

toe, I am not sure who has been telling you that this is what people think of you?

It certainly makes no sense to me.   Sorry, I don't get this.  Are you perceiving this?   Has someone told you they think you are like this?  

People are individuals.  Everyone is different, thank goodness.

There is good and evil in folks from all walks of life.

I guess maybe this is where the problem comes in.

Who is qualified to say something is good or something is evil?

I don't think anyone is saying that to you because you don't have the same opinion.   However, no one wants to hear that they can't have an opinion either.

From my perspective, I don't try to force anyone to change.  Now, if there is a conversation going on and I jump in, I am saying what I believe.  Just as you do. 

Neither one of us may come away with a different opinion. That's ok.  It's no biggie.  But please, let me have my beliefs, you can have yours.

what you continue to not understand is that no one... nobody is out there trying to take away your belief system.  nobody.  we have a seperation of church and state for good reason.   attempts  to insert your biblical belief into secular law is a no-no.  feel free to worship as you please. do not insist we insert your beliefs into my daily life via laws that you and your religion believe.  this is not too much to ask.  it's also unconstitutional.
we do not have a theocracy, nor do we want one.

Careful Toe,  by the time you wake up it will be too late.  And it won't be any fun telling you I told you so.

Dear President McCain and Vice President Palin:

<b><i>It's the 12th hour</i></b>

I have followed your history, service and sacrifice Mr. President, since I was a young girl. 

Thank you. <b>You are my Hero</b>.  When I think of you or hear your name, it makes my heart swell with pride and my eyes fill with tears.  You are a precious soul and your crown will be in Heaven, no doubt.

Vice President Palin, you have been a beacon on a hill and your <b>integrity,</b> the light.  You are today's Esther.  You were ordained for this moment.  Thank you for your sacrifice, your families sacrifice's and know, millions of Mom's are praying for your son and all of our troops, to come home safely.

We can only hope, you will honor us with your place in office, because quite frankly, we need you. 

You asked us to fight, we have fought by your sides.  We have been your point-men, women.

<i><u>Now Mr. President, Vice President, don't you give up the fight!</u></i>

This election, has been a pivotal  point in this countries history.

Many if not most of us are scared. 

We believe, that if your opponent was to win, not only will this be the most corrupt political administration to ever have been voted in, but we believe our very Constitution, our great American Flag, Our very Freedom, is at stake here.

<b><i>Perhaps you have been so busy, you have not been up to most current events, like we have.</i></b>

<b>Mr. President, Vice President our country has been hijacked from within and "we the people" have been powerless as we watch in horror, day by day, events unfolding that will forever change the face of this country.</b>

So it is with hope, I can still call you Mr. President and Vice President, tomorrow.

Please know, that we tried and prayed and fought for you.

If by chance, this comes to a tie or close call, many of us have put the "pieces of the puzzle together and get a picture, of the way this may play out.  

In my spirit, I feel strongly, any many others across this land, that well orchestrated riots and very well planned uproars have been planned not just recently, but for years now, for a time such as this, by folks such as ACORN, Wright, Farrakhan, Obama and the rest of these radicals.

<b><i>Never in a million years, could your opponent, get a job cleaning a toilet in the White House, much less run for President when he would not pass "Security Clearance"  due to his history.   </i></b>

Never!

We know your kind heart, the passion you feel for your country and how much it means to you. 

But so do your enemies, Mr. President.  They know that they can intimidate you and that because of who you are, they will use that to pressure you, that it will be for the good of the country, to roll over and let them steal our land from us! 

Our home, Our country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, will never, ever be again, if you give in to them!

If a re count is called, or any signs of contesting this race, it will begin.  I feel this in my spirit as millions of others do.

Will you keep fighting for us and will you remember that cell in prison, as painful as that must be, when you could have left, but you stayed?

Please, don't give up on us.  Please, don't give up on America.  

We got your back! Please watch ours!

I have two sons who have served. They want you to "Never, Give Up!"

Semper Fidelis
2BlueStarMom -

touching

Toe.  I am not a Christian.  I don't read the Bible.  My choice. 

"In God We Trust" is not part of the U.S. Constitution for sure.  But those
four words express the opinions of those whom served to forge that Constitution.  The framework for the government that resulted from their
considerable efforts sprung from the kiln of belief that this framework should , were it to stand the test of time, be erected upon a mighty foundation.  The foundation for this nation is the core belief and adherence to Judeo-Christian principles...based on the belief of that God.  Our very wise and educated and well-meaning forefathers learned from world history that men (mortals) served insufficiently as gods, and therefore as poor models upon which to base the future of a great human experiment in self-governance.  They believed that reliance upon their faith during  this nation's  infancy  would prove to be the deciding factor
not only in seeing America  through  its first critical years, but well into  what would become  a validation of their  faith  in God  in 2008.
Christianity will never prove to be the downfall of America, Toe.  Turning away from those values, however, may prove to be.

hey everyone,
I was working on a school project today, with just having the news on in the background of the election....when I suddenly got this very sad feeling.
I never have been much of one to cry.....but I sure felt like it.
I just had to put down my work for a moment and shake it off.

Susan....I prescribe 30 seconds of very hard dancing in front of a mirror...
Then cheer up and finish your homework.  We'll all be here tomorrow.

i can only hope my fellow Americans will exercise judgment today and defeat fear and ignorance.

..couldn't agree more, W.

..however, W., I do think it a bit harsh referring to Obama and Biden as "Fear" and "Ignorance"...no matter how accurate.

electing a Bush clone would be fear&ignorance....

November 3, 2022
Special Election Preview
Washington, DC
Outlook
To: Our Readers
On the eve of the election, we continue to predict a narrow win for Sen. Barack Obama, certainly in the popular vote (about 52%), and likely in the Electoral College. With one change from last week--shifting Nevada from Republican column to the Democratic column--we predict an Obama win of 291 Electoral Votes to Sen. John McCain's 247.

The above report is from the
Evans-Novack Political Report
http://www.cagle.com/working/080729/matson.jpg
i'm ready to party.....bottle of Kahlua,  and some dynamite Bud!

The head to head exit polls just were sent to the Huffington Post by a Democratic source. These are traditionally unreliable and should be taken with a grain of salt (see: Kerry's winning margins in 2004). For what it's worth, they project a big night for Obama in several of the key swing states.
The states looking good for Obama:
Florida: 52 percent to 44 percent
Iowa: 52 percent to 48 percent
Missouri: 52 percent to 48 percent
North Carolina: 52 percent to 48 percent
New Hampshire: 57 percent to 43 percent
Nevada: 55 percent to 45 percent
Pennsylvania: 57 percent to 42 percent
Ohio: 54 percent to 45 percent
Wisconsin: 58 percent to 42 percent
Indiana: 52 percent to 48 percent
New Mexico: 56 percent to 43 percent
Minnesota: 60 percent to 39 percenthttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/04/exit-polls-2008-see-the-f_n_140986.html

an Obama win will result in:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1888086

hope your win gives you all you seek.

i hope the defeat will teach the GOP something they should know about the American people...
ssssst.......ahhhhhh!
Gotta good buzz goin'!

http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/3893330/

Democrats grabbed an early victory when CBS News projected Kay Hagan the winner of a nasty U.S. Senate campaign against Republican Sen. Elizabeth Dole.

NC going blue!

so sweet,   the republican tears

amber2

You see, that's the difference between you and me. 

Big, Big, Huge difference.

"all things that are hidden, will be revealed."

Good night my friends.

David:
your comment:
i hope the defeat will teach the GOP something they should know about the American people...

that does not tell me anything i didn't already know.  we have to clean up corruption on our side and i've been saying that.  you guys are  lucky enough to have the biggest crooks of all now--pelosi, reed, dodd, frank and obama--so things will only get worse.  taking an example from the news today-- a lady said it was their time and now that she voted for obama, he would return the favor by paying her mortgage, bills and insurance.  i could not make that up if i tried.  so if you promise the low/middle income people a check, they will vote for anyone/anything.  that is what i have learned in the past few months and after that lady said that on the news today, i had to laugh at the evidence but it is so sad.  i can handle a depression or severe downturn in the economy because of the cash on hand.  however, most people cannot and it is sad that they will suffer the higher food and clothing costs as a result of obama's plan.  because i care about the good of the whole country, this concerns me. 

2BlueStarMom--
from your posts you seem to be a great human being with a big heart.  as you have seen from toe's comments, not everyone understands the "do unto others rule" and likes the idea of the "stab everyone in the back rule."  however, those of us who genuinely care about this country and its people understand the values and morales our ancestors taught us.  even though there seem to be few of us left, we are here to stay.  i think our attitudes stem from the teachings of our families.  i've read your post about your father and find it heartwarming!  thank you for sharing.  i was taught to respect others, but it is obvious some families neglected to pass that lesson down. 

 

2BlueStarMom--
from your posts you seem to be a great human being with a big heart.  as you have seen from toe's comments, not everyone understands the "do unto others rule" and likes the idea of the "stab everyone in the back rule."  however, those of us who genuinely care about this country and its people understand the values and morales our ancestors taught us.  even though there seem to be few of us left, we are here to stay.  i think our attitudes stem from the teachings of our families.  i've read your post about your father and find it heartwarming!  thank you for sharing.  i was taught to respect others, but it is obvious some families neglected to pass that lesson down.  in the end nastiness won't prevail!  keep up the great posts and ignore those who have deficiencies too great to define here! 

Tankerton...what a great piece above on the foundation of our constitution. Clearly you are well informed.
David,  I know that beer is good and that Kahlua is delicious,  But BEER and Kahlua.....are you feeling alright today?

Amber....I haven't noticed you here before...and what you have said about the enjoyment you derive from the "tears of the losers"...tells a sad story about your lack of evolvement.  Those tears are over what these people feel we are all losing in the willingness of the left to compromise basics of our constitution. ...they are crying over how it will negatively effect you too....
And it occurs to me why you are wasting your time on this clearly titled Conservative blog.  Is your life so vapid that this is how you fill your emptiness?  Some anti-conservatives are here to debate and to exchange ideas....but that is clearly not your intent. 
You sound like a very little girl.   

class act McCain....how he cares about this country first...even in the defeat...to help make the transition so as not to hobble the next presidency....
I was so proud of him and Palin....

Susan......ah, my bad.....the "Bud" was green....you know, like marijuana?
Yes, it went very well with the Kahlua!  (I am on a gluten free diet, so Beer is out).......
I remember how badly i felt after the 1980 election, so i know how y'all must be feeling today.  And i remember feeling, 28 years ago, that the democrats had lost for a reason, that the electorate's trust had been squandered.  I was willing to give Ron Reagan a chance.....and he earned a bit of respect from me on some issues, mostly having to do with foriegn affairs.
Like the dems of 28 years ago, the GOP finds itself in a similar position today.  The tide of political events has moved them from a role of actively influencing the course of this nation.  It took the dems a while to figure out that they needed to move to a more centrist position to regain political power, will the republicans move to the center or revert even further to the right?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/2943837100_12212916b5.jpg

amber2,
I am no longer a Republican, because I believe the Republican Party has moved a bit too far left for my political comfort.  I am, however, a conservative to be sure.  I promise you that I am not crying today.  But I do pity you.  The right pities the left for their inability to see the world around them.  But the "left" hates the right...at least that is my take.  I can feel that "hatred" from you, as well as many of the other liberals on this sight.  To use a famously "leftist" and over-used cliche, your hatred comes from fear, your fear from ignorance....now this part I made up..and your ignorance from allowing your heart to listen to those who would manipulate that heart in order to shape that hatred.  You have been manipulated, Amber2, with the intent of full exploitation by your new leftist "compassionate" government.  As long as you drink the Kool-Aid,
Obama and his advisors and allies will keep mixing and pouring.  Drink up....for ignorance is bliss.....at least until it isn't anymore.  You have been taught to hate America by liberals.  When Obama fails to make your house and car payments for you, you will still blame Bush because some guy you shared a doobie with will assure you that Bush put a stop-payment on the checks.  And doobie or no doobie, you will still blame the right.  Pity.

David...oh I didn't know that bud meant that....silly me.
But that said....hope you are well today...
already the machine is starting up again....they gotta have their game plan...even if it means turning on their own.

Susan....President O has a big job ahead of him....Bush left him with a BIG mess....
I don't indulge in weed like i once did, but i felt like celebrating.  Feel fine, since i didn't drink all that much.

"they gotta have their game plan...even if it means turning on their own."
.......-what's that about?

I wonder about your thoughts on the weeping people at O's acceptance speech?

Good Afternoon David,
I don't know what Oprah was crying about....maybe that President Obama
will give some of her billions away....
But I am sure that Jess jacksom was crying because ...A) He knew the cameras were rolling and B)...because his "racecard" business just took a big hit.....So I guess they were both shedding tears for the economy getting worse under the administration to be.

Seriously, congratulations.  I know many of your compadres are very happy today.  I'd rather have some happy Americans than America-haters any day.

thanx Tank.....
you gotta remember.......this is only the 3rd Prez winner i've picked since i cast my 1st vote in 72. 
You may be right about Jesse.......who knows.   But i was talking about the "ordinary" folks.  They love this country in a way that may be different than the way some love America.  But they love it, nevertheless.

Don't feel bad....I voted for Perot and Barr.  Winning isn't everything................I guess.Later

i posted this on another blog but thought it is fitting here too! 

yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.

He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 

1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac, a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 

2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.

3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 

4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 

5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  sensorship!  what great guy!

6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.

7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 

so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington. 

Titus, I gotta go home or my wife's gonna kill me...but, bingo! on your post above.  Here we go, fasten your seatbelts.  Talk is cheap, even if it is pretty, as President-elect Obama's acceptance speech was last evening.  Even though I have finally achieved "non-racism" status in the eyes of the liberals (right?), I feel that the price this nation will pay for its foolishness in wanting to "punish" Bush will inevitably serve no other purpose than to punish this nation in brutal and significant ways that we haven't even imagined yet.  We're not just changing administrations.  We are abandoning America's principles.  We are reverting to ideals which have been tried and have failed throughout history!!!!!!!  Nations built on leftist principles, like those espoused by BHO and friends, end up on the junkpile of history's failures.  We have released the break on our handcart to hell, I am afraid.  Like I have said, it is an amazing spectacle to watch 300,000,000 commit slow suicide...like watching the steam-roller scene in Austin Powers.

Tankerton --
glad you liked my post.  i waited all day to post this.  well, i am a wife and my husband is not home yet either so i understand  hahaaha!  too funny!
i agree with you completly.  the nice new chief of staff has also stated that republicans can go F... themselves.  what a nice guy.  ....and liberals say we spread hate and are such bad people.  they also think we have a problem with reaching across party lines to work together.  where is the unity in anything they do?  we are supposed to now come together as a nation?  liberals are just in a cloud of smoke and obama was blowing it.  i just can't wait for this soap opera to continue.  we'll have to stay tuned just to see what other outstanding humanbeings will be in his cabinet next.  even if members are appointed, it may be a while before they actually are able to attend the meetings.  i think the criminals' probations are not until sometime next spring!  ha!  i guess we can gaze at their mugshots!  if obama, out of the goodness of his heart, appoints a token republican, it will be for appearances sake only.  welcome to the new America folks!  i'm not proud of this mess because this country is really screwed!      

Tankerton -- glad you liked my post. i waited all day to post this. well, i am a wife and my husband is not home yet either so i understand hahaaha! too funny! i agree with you completly. the nice new chief of staff has also stated that republicans can go F... themselves. what a nice guy. ....and liberals say we spread hate and are such bad people. they also think we have a problem with reaching across party lines to work together. where is the unity in anything they do? we are supposed to now come together as a nation? liberals are just in a cloud of smoke and obama was blowing it. i just can't wait for this soap opera to continue. we'll have to stay tuned just to see what other outstanding humanbeings will be in his cabinet next. even if members are appointed, it may be a while before they actually are able to attend the meetings. i think the criminals' probations are not until sometime next spring! ha! i guess we can gaze at their mugshots! if obama, out of the goodness of his heart, appoints a token republican, it will be for appearances sake only. welcome to the new America folks! i'm not proud of this mess because this country is really screwed!

David,
The emotion of the victory touched me deeply...on the faces of so many there who wear wering their oppression of centuries....and here was an historical time in that story.
Maybe it was on this site, or another, but at the start of this campaign when I first sensed that something was wrong here with this man, my first reaction was that how I wished it was someone else....another black man that was soon to come. There are a few who are in place that aren't this corrupt.
He is corrupt...Dave.  I think he has a nature of entitlement...like he has a right to censor whatever he thinks is destructive to his goal....I think he could easily have certain people killed....for the purpose of the cause....and I know that he is very smart....and will only become smoother.
Already....I wouldn't trust anything he said with his hand on a Bible...
because he is no kind of Chrstian that I have ever thought was even a little genuine.
But when he first hit the scene., I saw somethine different. But what I think happened was be became part of this machine that gave him no option....do this or else....and he knows about that...from the other side...he knows what he has to do to make it....He is accustomed to trading his soul ...and therefore anyone else's for expediency.
But to answer your question....although I clearly prefer the straight behavior of letting the policies stand on their own....not depending on how to buy the election or steal it....
I am sure he figures the noble end justifies the means...

but I don't
I was moved by the people...their hopes....the very fact that a black man is in office in itself is a great thing for me personally...I love that part.....
But I hate how many have attached their hopes to him and his promises...that he made in order to be elected.

this is the thing.....I don't feel he trusted the people to choose him if he told the truth about what he stood on, where he came from, what he really intends to do to for this country. or to this country...which I am sure he is convinced is right...but it isn't the best thing for us...
.

Susan-- that was a great post!  you said it well!  unfortunately, i think this country is divided more than ever.  as you can see from my earlier posts tonight, obama really doesn't want unity.  pelosi, reed, frank and dodd are other examples of people who purposely destroy any hopes of unity.  they don't want us to have free speech and would rather have a dictatorship with the democrats in charge.  obama is showing signs of this also.  so i wonder how we can come together with people who are so dishonest, and why would we want to compromise our principles and destroy this country even more in the process.  

This is for anybody,
Is it just me or are the laws governing elections shaped to discourage honesty in a campaign?
I think we need to get back to plain and simple of a long series of debates....maybe as many as ten in a row...different formats to feature different talents of each candidate...
and a limited amount of money....and be very strict on that.
Money should not be why we elect someone...
The media is criminal...we all know that...and they can commit suicide on their own time if they choose to...let them undo themselves and their reputations..
But when it comes to campaigns....I think we at least need a paper and a station that covers the debates....and the information on these people's backgrounds....

Susan:  i agree with your post and don't know if there are a lot of people left like us.  i also liked McCain's idea about having both candidates fly around together and have townhall meetings.  of course, obama arrogantly declined.  that was just the beginning of a long compaign.  i would have a little respect for the man if he treated his family well, donated more than 3 to 5% of his millions to charity, practiced what he preached and didn't lie to one of the most vunerable groups of people in the US, the elderly.  the later was really sad and he scared a lot of older folks.  he talked about giving to others, helping neighbors, but he definitely doesn't practice what he preaches.  it is sad to know that this is just the beginning of a long four, crooked, dishonest and corrupt years.  i think the coming years will be more corrupt than this country has ever seen.  the stock market fell more than 500 points today, which is higher than any other day after an election in history.  people can blame the economy and so many other things.  i can tell you that a lot had to do with the fact that investors do not like his economic plans and know they will not work.  investor confidence is gone and our economy will continue to decline.  of course, he will all of the sudden back off of every tactic he used to get elected just to act as if he is a hero to get the economy going again.  that will enrage the extreme left that voted for him and the folks who were going to get checks and tax credits.  i'm really worried about this country and all of our citizens.  it is a hard time and i think for some sick reason the liberals are loving every minute knowing their policies are going to destroy this country.     

Susan:  i agree with your post and don't know if there are a lot of people left like us.  i also liked McCain's idea about having both candidates fly around together and have townhall meetings.  of course, obama arrogantly declined.  that was just the beginning of a long compaign.  i would have a little respect for the man if he treated his family well, donated more than 3 to 5% of his millions to charity, practiced what he preached and didn't lie to one of the most vunerable groups of people in the US, the elderly.  the later was really sad and he scared a lot of older folks.  he talked about giving to others, helping neighbors, but he definitely doesn't practice what he preaches.  it is sad to know that this is just the beginning of a long four, crooked, dishonest and corrupt years.  i think the coming years will be more corrupt than this country has ever seen.  the stock market fell more than 500 points today, which is higher than any other day after an election in history.  people can blame the economy and so many other things.  i can tell you that a lot had to do with the fact that investors do not like his economic plans and know they will not work.  investor confidence is gone and our economy will continue to decline.  of course, he will all of the sudden back off of every tactic he used to get elected just to act as if he is a hero to get the economy going again.  that will enrage the extreme left that voted for him and the folks who were going to get checks and tax credits.  i'm really worried about this country and all of our citizens.  it is a hard time and i think for some sick reason the liberals are loving every minute knowing their policies are going to destroy this country.     

Susan: i agree with your post and don't know if there are a lot of people left like us. i also liked McCain's idea about having both candidates fly around together and have townhall meetings. of course, obama arrogantly declined. that was just the beginning of a long compaign. i would have a little respect for the man if he treated his family well, donated more than 3 to 5% of his millions to charity, practiced what he preached and didn't lie to one of the most vunerable groups of people in the US, the elderly. the later was really sad and he scared a lot of older folks. he talked about giving to others, helping neighbors, but he definitely doesn't practice what he preaches. it is sad to know that this is just the beginning of a long four, crooked, dishonest and corrupt years. i think the coming years will be more corrupt than this country has ever seen. the stock market fell more than 500 points today, which is higher than any other day after an election in history. people can blame the economy and so many other things. i can tell you that a lot had to do with the fact that investors do not like his economic plans and know they will not work. investor confidence is gone and our economy will continue to decline. of course, he will all of the sudden back off of every tactic he used to get elected just to act as if he is a hero to get the economy going again. that will enrage the extreme left that voted for him and the folks who were going to get checks and tax credits. i'm really worried about this country and all of our citizens. it is a hard time and i think for some sick reason the liberals are loving every minute knowing their policies are going to destroy this country.

http://larrysinclair-0926.blogspot.com/

$10,000 Reward
Announcing a reward of $10,000 put up by Dune Capital Holdings for information leading to the killer of Donald Young, former Choir Director at Trinity United Christian Church in Chicago, and former lover of Barack Obama.

Who is Larry Sinclair?  What's this all about?  I heard a few weeks ago a small mention somewhere about BHO having this relationship with another man.

Anyone care to shed some light please?

Titus and Tankerton....
I remember talking about what looked to me as inevitable that the money market would have to go into a freefall.....if Obama won. I mean...you don't even have to be smart to realize that his intention to tax corporations and higher income populace ....is going to scare people in moving their assets as fast as they can....and add to that the state of our econonmy right now...some are just reacting to the appearance of where we are going....
there is another thing.....speaking from what I see around here in my community....there are some well to do folks that are cashing in...taking the loss in that process ...rather than being forced to give it away. I think they should keep cooler heads...but it's such a sensetive subject to them, they aren't listening to me now.

I am also expecting something really horrible to surface about Obama....maybe something like that choir director debacle above...
who knows...but I know I saw that knife inside his jacket....and though he keeps it hidden...I know what I saw.   

David, my friend...
what I meant about them turning on their own...is the media..and the political machine...
Here they have done everything they can to get their guy elected...., and just watch the first chance ...the media will turn on Obama....mainly to win back the conservative readers...because now that there isn't an election to sell enough papers....they have to survive somehow...but it's too late...they have already proven they cannot be trusted whatsoever.
And the dems...and the reps...all of that bunch, will as soon cripple one of their own if he or she might eventually threaten a covetted seat....If they cannot control you....they must defeat you. If they can control you, they will use you until you no longer serve them.
It is the worst business I know.
I think there are exceptions....but what I hope is that this country will start to get a little wiser. All we have to do is quit voting for the same crap over and over again.......
We think we have a change with this new leadership?
It's the same dead weight that we keep shifting ....first to this shoulder, then to the other....then to the other.....and back and forth..
That isn't change....that's not learning.
Anyway ....that is how I feel tonight as I watch Obama having selected one of the most radically left for his first guy....
what happend to the centrist promise....
He is corrupt....as they come.  I wish it were different.

Susan:  you are correct and i think there is more to obama than we know.  investors know they won't make money if obama raises taxes and that is part of what we are seeing in markets.  i have been talking about this on these blogs for a while and liberals ignore it!  i just can't believe it!  did you see my post about his new chief of staff?  what does it take for liberals to see this?  i don't for the life of me understand.  my mother-in-law who is 79 years old cannot believe people are so stupid that they voted for obama.  she does not have the internet and only watches the news every now and then and lives in the country of PA.  she says "i'm not smart and i can see it."  go figure. 

Susan, my friend:  your comment #300.
you are so on target!  wow!  thank goodness there are people like us still around!  but ya know i think people voted for him because he offered them everything conceivable especially, money.  money talks i guess but common sense doesn't.  the excuse i heard was that they didn't want 8 more years of bush.  that is hogwash and they know it!  but hey, if that is all they have to justify their stupid actions........  now i'm really afraid of what is going to happen to our country.  we are in for a really hard time. 
 

this is for Dan on the first blog.  i hope he sees this because i am unable to post on it right now (error).

Dan  -- are you kidding me?  obama tried to instill fear into everyone but you either just didn't pay attention or care to acknowledge it.  a few weeks ago he was in FL giving a stump speech.  there were a lot of older people there.  (i saw this on TV.)  he told them that McCain wanted to mess with their social security and privatize it.  well that is a bold face lie.  he wanted to keep the older folks' social security the way it is and let younger folks have more choices in safe investments to give them a chance for better returns.  however, the younger folks would have a choice of whether to do this or not.  so obama tried to instill fear into the older folks and a lot of them believed him because they don't know any better.  boy, what a nice guy this obama is.  his elderly aunt is living in Boston, MA in government housing on welfare.  she is walking with a walker and is here illegally but i can't blame her because she may not understand.  how is this hope when obama is living in a $1 million mansion and the aunt he spoke so highly of in his book is living in proverty (he didn't deny he knew about this and only denied knowing she was here illegally--he is a lawyer and she is elderly, duh).  now keep in mind the government (taxpayers) are keeping her up.  his uncle still lives in africa making $24/yr and obama visited him 2 years ago.  he is not helping them and his rhetoric says to help your neighbors and brothers and sisters and give to others!  he is a total jerk!  of course, you will ignore that he only give 3 to 5% of his large multi-million dollar salary to charity.  you don't want to discuss this?  how about the corrupt chief of staff he just hired (see my comments below)?  how do you call this hope?  oh by the way, ya know how obama talks about reaching across party lines and wants to work with everyone to have unity?  well his new chief of staff said "all republicans can go F... themselves!"  how uniting is that.  so before you start lying, understand what you are saying. 

yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.
He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 
1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac (by the way he got rich while he was there; surprise!), a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 
2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.
3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  (he did this in chicago and that is one of the reasons they are having financial problems) way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 
4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  he also said republicans can go F... themselves!  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 
5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  sensorship!  what great guy!
6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.
7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 
so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  is anyone getting the picture now or do i need to take art lessons to draw you some pictures.  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington. 

would you like me to go on and continue the list of why obama is corrupt and will ruin this country or do you now get the picture?

oh once there was a spot ...that never be forgot....for one brief shining moment that was known as Camelot.

It's the liberal religion of socialism (known as the religion of the humanities) that is imposing its beliefs on us all, disregarding our constitutional rights of our individual religious practices, to free enterprise and profit...and our right to own property (and pensions).
I believe the liberals are deeply motivated by a religious zealotry so pervasive that they cannot allow any cancer of true freedom to exist in its midst. ...for fear of its shining magesty making them look so dark , and if this is all I had....I would be very very upset right now.

lets see, what do we have after 8 years of republican rule. Two wars, 10 trilion dollars in debt, a budding cold war, the potential for pakistan to become a  nuclear rouge state, a trashed environment (probobly our biggest problem)  an energy crises, katrina, and one massive market crash. susan no poetry, you will just fuck it up.

it is a pleasure to watch the republicans eat their young as they try to apportion blame for their defeat.

Perhaps it's just my simple little mind, why are liberals posting here?

Do they think we are interested in their continued filthy mouth propaganda?

Your hate transmits through the sources you use to extol it.

What strikes me as insanely hilarious, they have been for decades now, telling conservatives they don't want us forcing our beliefs on them.

The truth of the matter is, they want to force their beliefs on us and are furious that we won't change our beliefs.

The darkness in the  hearts of so many who live with deception, cannot stand the light of truth.

You have the nerve and audacity to scream out that we have kept you in bondage.  What a joke. Get a grip.  The proof is in the pudding.  All you have to do is turn on the t.v. and read the newspapers to see who is the oppressed people in this country.

I see the hate and feel your murderous intentions to wipe Christians off the face of the earth, just as Islamist want the Jews wiped off the face of the earth.

I have watched this happening for decades.  That is why liberals are so angry and filled with hate.

They are deceived and want us to jump off the cliff with them.

No thanks.  You have tried for decades to wipe out our beliefs.

It is ridiculous for you to come on here, where no one cares what you think because it's the same old rhetoric, the same arguing, the same agenda and the same warped thinking.

You have your king.  He is your king.  You asked for him, you got him

You have achieved your Sodom and Gomorrah that has spread like cancer throughout this country.

Now you will have to suffer the consequences of your choice.

Not our choice.  Yours.

I suggest you go to your liberal blog sites, and worship each other and your king, where you are wanted and your proliferation of lies can reproduce.

Your agenda will be your demise.  Killing hundreds of millions of unborn babies, who's very blood is crying out to our Heavenly Father, has caused his patience to cease.

You have mocked God and your hearts are like stone.  You have no conscience, no morals, no remorse for the hate you have spewed and the blood on your hands.

Your actions speak volumes.

Go serve your king.  You have grieved the Holy
Spirit and you are left wanting.

amber2

"it is a pleasure to watch the republicans eat their young as they try to apportion blame for their defeat"

Your choice of words and your filthy mouth are despicable. 

You, are of your father. The father of lies, murder and darkness.

You and what you project are an abomination.  You have no light. You have no understanding. You have no truth. You have no grace.  You are without mercy.  You are full of false worship. You have no love.  You have no life.

You are dry, dead bones in a graveyard full of pungent death.

White washed tombstones --that look good on the outside yet inside  dead bones.

Your ambiance judges you, not me.    You have done that yourself with your actions, your words, your motive, your false, misguided, edification.

Your reflection of character assassination, is the mirror of your heart.

God's word is alive and sharper than a two edged sword.  Is the same, yesterday, today and forever.

7  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I think some of you might find this very interesting...
It has to do with socialism being a religion, albeit a materialistic, secular one.
And this is why what is happening is of a spiritual nature.

I read a pointed piece on Socialism: Our Unconstitutionally Established National Religion by Thomas Brewton
 http://www.thomasbrewton.com/index.php/weblog/socialism
about the unconstitionality of federal funding to teach socialism...or to mandate it politically....amounts to establishing the secular religion of socialism as the official national church.

amber...if you can't play nice you will need to stand in the corner. something....
 

Like it or not, the constitution is based on the Christian doctrine of Grace, the free gift of God, that God gives freely and we are to do the same...give out of love...and it is up to each of to decide to do that....
We hold this truth to be sacred because it is the one thing we Believe God has given us....free will to choose or not to choose God...free will to love or not to love....
when we love it is always out of choice.
There is no love unless there is choice to to choose it. When we are forced to give, the love is removed from it.
It ceases to be a gift...but a fee. it becomes a duty...a means of buying...
and one's salvation isn't buyable.
Some people who would gladly wash their hands of God's requirement that we love one another would jump on the chance to buy out their responsibility to others.....But it will not work...because it is not out of love....in fact...it will for certain instill resentment.

this is what many liberals who are not aware of the spiritual undergirdings in the Constitution are unable to understand....that the enforced giving endorsed by the liberal religion of socialism will never be compatible with the Christian's belief in the freedom....

the religion of socialism is an imposed belief that undermines the church's intiative to freely give....both in making some people feel they have done their part....and in robbing the church of it's task to give to the world.

The charity givers and mission workers that have supported endless organizations that support those truly in need will now have to give that money to the government to distribute....without knowing who receives it, what corrupt channels it courses through to its end...
And the organizations that were sources for the poor....will decline, requiring more funding through the same people.
True Conservatives  cannot embrace the religion of socialism that hides behind political correctness and a financial solution, We cannot allow our beliefs to be imposed upon....by taking away the real incentive for giving...which is Grace....and love....
something we really want to give.....not out of fear of imprisonment.

I wish I could provide those interested with some of the constitutional aguements against what the liberals are positioning to pass. I haven't learned yet  how to paste sites and such from the web.
 
but if you get a chance, read that thomas brewton piece on "Socialism: Our Unconstitutionally Established National Religion." I copied the website above a few blogs ago.
Socialism is a religion of man.
Socialism's codifier , Henri de Saint-Simon called it nothing less...His last major work, entitled The New Christianity....justified that the highest socialistic regulatory council should control government....down to the education level...so that nothing but the catechism of social justice might be taught....like Darwinism...multiculturalism....Keynesian economics, deconstruction, legal realism....and critical studies...
 
liberal theology....is socialism.
People who say they are not religious because they are socialists are unaware of the forces at play ...and therefore ...they can be played.
Socialism as espoused through the liberal left is the religion of the humanity.....humans ordering the world...not God.
It is a religion that hates Christianity.
It cannot dare say it hates Christianity...and wants to shut it up...for fear of exposing itself as the zealotry it is....
but it cannot thrive where Christianity exists.
That is why some of its demons just can't be content to let Christians have their freedom of faith. the socialist zealots are unable to outshine the compelling call of freedom that our American constitution (as framed after the doctrines of Christianity) offers. 
It must snuff it out. 
Bertrand russell, from WW 1 Germany socialist party....knew social democracy was not a mere economic theory...but a complete self contained...ethic of hte world....a religion...
And to judge the works of Marx as from an economic standpoint is to overlook the whole body of the religious intention of it..

finally...and I know I have posted several times here...but I am on a mission..so to speak.
I am usually tolerant of most people....for I protect everyone's right to a view...except the devil.
So here are a few words to the hateful spirit who is posting here known as amber2

What I would love to see is a reward for the computer files of Obama, that were hacked into by the Chinese lad. It would be nice if the files fell into the hands of the conservatives to make sure that justice is served. That would be a welcome sight!

2 blue Star
I would be very surprised if there weren't already those who had access to this information and were positioning themselves to best leak it.
All things will be revealed. 
The republicans right now are joining minds seeking the vitality of their party, put poor critters....they are so weighed down by the political dogma, they can't see the crux of the problem. They have lost touch with the heart of Conservatism.  
I believe there will be a rising from the church, protesting the rights of the church violated by the government's imposed religion of socialism...and I believe that the great constitutional lawyers will see their opportunity to defend the church's rights.....(that fortunately still exist while we have the conservative justices on the bench), and the Republican party will be ignited through this rising up.

I still have hope for those God loving people who got waylaid by Obama..... they too will be awakened.
And I am wondering what role in this awakening process will be played by that murdered choir director.

I concur. 

As for the choir director, I am still in the dark on that one.

I did not pay attention to politics until O came on the scene.

Red (pun intended accidentally) flags flew up everywhere when I started doing my "due diligence" on him.

I was intrigued with him at first and then realized, more and more as time went on, and more truth came forward, that I could not vote for this person.

McCain would not have been my choice, but then, I was not going to vote period.

I had to vote for McCain. I knew his history, his patriotism and his service and Palin was what drew me.

You do realize that the hard core left is going to get on here and bad mouth her now.

But she has integrity and truth.  More than all candidates put together.

That's it.

Obama To Re-Appoint Pro-Fairness Doctrine Commissioner To The FCC

Here we go! This is going to silence us for good folks!

I'm quite sure the democratic radical left is going to love this one!

Besides the Conservative voice, Christian T.V., Radio etc is now going to be silenced! Henry Rivera, a longtime radical leftist, lawyer and former FCC commissioner, is expected to lead the push to dismantle commercial talk radio that is favored by a number of Democratic Party senators. Rivera will play a pivotal role in preventing critics from having a public voice during Obama’s tenure in office. Rivera, who resigned from the FCC nearly a quarter-century ago during the Reagan years, believes in a doctrine of “communications policy as a civil rights issue”. His exit during the Reagan Administration paved the way for the Fairness Doctrine’s repeal when the late president appointed Patricia Diaz Dennis in 1986 to fill out the rest of Rivera’s term. Had this not occurred, talk radio as we know it today would not exist. That gives Rivera’s new task a great deal of personal urgency: it’s a late-career, second chance opportunity to shut down opposition voices that have been allowed to flourish since his depature from the commission. In particular, Rivera is known for his push for more minority broadcasting ownership, but this issue has largely been rendered obsolete as former commercial broadcasting empires teeter on the brink of bankruptcy. Rivera’s first opportunity to eliminate commercial talk radio will occur in June 2009, as the term of Republican Robert McDowell expires and he can be replaced with a pro-Fairness Doctrine Democrat. That will give the commission a three-vote Democratic majority, though the final two seats must remain in Republican hands. If they can strong-arm one of the three Republicans into leaving early, this can be implemented even sooner.

This all is playing out like a bad novel, isn't it?  Apparently we are seeing the Democratic Party's version of "Shock and Awe".   The daily news from here on out from D.C. will continue to shock us, until all we are left with is the requisite "awe" of the "Big O".  Maybe 'Bam's handlers will construct a warm, fuzzy nick name for him which they will demand that the press refer to him as...like "Papi", or "O", or "Uncle", or even....."Father".  It doesn't take such an incredible stretch of the imagination to envision America as the new Cuba
does it?  We are oiling the wheel of hell-bound handcart..are we not?

"He is corrupt...Dave.  I think he has a nature of entitlement...like he has a right to censor whatever he thinks is destructive to his goal....I think he could easily have certain people killed....for the purpose of the cause....and I know that he is very smart....and will only become smoother."..........Susan writes!

-Lay off the Limbaugh some!

David    ----
I don't get limbaugh where I am....I have tried....but my brother does. But I can see that he would think that. Anyone can see that Obama is corrupt...if they are willing to look. 
And furthermore....I am convinced he will surprise us on both ends....one, that he is going to be able to accomplish some things BECAUSE of his willingness to do anything..... and two, his relationships and belief system is going to rise up where we can who he is. and it won't be a good thing....but I also think some of the party will have a constraining influence, and outside conditions will limit what he can actually effect.

I think there is a good reason we don't know him well. the ability to  think something all by myself...in fact that is quite regularly the case.

2 blue Star- 

2 blue star,
sorry I kind of messed up that blog above...and was going to write on that insert, but then just sent it...and whoops there was your name.

about the fairness doctrine....I hope we can gather some really talented constitutional lawyers about this free speech issue.....and not allow the dems to silence any opposition.
It won't be easy for them...considering how popular those shows are.
Once on an interview on the right....these guys couldn't for the life of them figure out why the far right radio shows and certain news stations....did so well.
Well it's because they aren't the common fare. The more narrow the opening for the steam to escape, the louder the whistle. close that opening off....and it will burst out everywhere.
they can't shut people up...
And   internet is a wild, wild forum.

got to go to bed....what a long day.

Some liberals love to come to these conservative blogs and accuse us of spreading hate and fear mongering.  we know these are lies, and those folks could run up huge psychiatry bills and still not get their problems solved. 

well today i was verbally attacked by a liberal without provocation.  she was looking for a fight, but i would not stoop to her level.  it was interesting that i didn't even mention politics, and obama's name was thrown in my face.  i was told about how great he was and that it was the right choice, blah, blah, blah.  the person laughed when she said i looked sad on weds. and tried to make me admit he was president (like i didn't know this?).  what a nut job!  if i hadn't been in shock at her unprofessionalism and immaturity, i would have laughed.  i smiled and said i would rather not go there, and the attack got personal and intruded on my rights to think and make decisions based on facts and not stupid ideologies.  according to some liberals, conservatives do not have the right in this free country to think anymore.  we should do as they do and believe what obama tells us like good little soldiers, and ignore his actions that are obviously corrupt.  so sad.  she accused me of things i had never even thought about.  not only are these types of folks bullies, they enjoy spreading hate.  obama's rhetoric and ability to entice people to worship him has divided this country even more, and all of the stupid people have come out from under the rocks.  so before the liberals attack anyone, they need to look in the mirror.  i have conservative beliefs and live by the idea that everyone should be responsible for themselves and not be weasels and take the easy road.  when did it become morale to receive welfare just because you don't want to work?  when did it become morale to have children you can't support and educate?  when did it become morale to not instill family values in our children?  when did it become morale to disrespect others and blame others for a parent's lack of parenting?  does anyone understand what the word "manners" is anymore?  as my great-grandmother used to say, "act like you have some sense!"  everyone should follow that advice but it seems liberals think they are higher beings.  ha!  maybe weed is a factor?  hmmmmmm!  i think it is also funny that liberals are saying we have lost and we must face that americans are sick and tired of bush.........  i think it is a recording and the statement has no meaning.  we haven't lost; the american people have lost.  it is more apparent everyday that we are losing our freedoms and our free market economy approach.  i happen to appreciate those american traits and can't believe some folks who call themselves americans are enjoying watching our nation crumble.  so those that support obama are not doing themselves any favors by admitting that to me.  i don't have very good thoughts when that happens and owe my buddies at work $1 every time i cuss.   thank goodness there is a $3 limit per day or i'd have to get a second job!

Susan:  i hope that we as a nation (forget the nut jobs) will finally start paying attention and be willing to fight for our freedoms.  it seems most people have become too selfish to get involved and want others to do the "dirty" work.   

Response to 307...........
"Now you will have to suffer the consequences of your choice.
Not our choice.  Yours."-BlueStarMom
In this ongoing war of social issues being played out in our nation, i hear lots of noise from the right like this:   "telling conservatives they don't want us forcing our beliefs on them.
The truth of the matter is, they want to force their beliefs on us and are furious that we won't change our beliefs."
BlueStar.....it's not that i want to change your beliefs or that i am "furious" that you pray and have faith in god,
-it's only that i don't want your faith driven beliefs to become public policy in a legal sense.  No one wants to stop your prayers or your faith.  But when your prayers are mandated in public settings, it offends me.  When church doctrine becomes public policy, it offends me.
Who is it that is undermining your faith?  Who is forcing you to blaspheme or have an abortion?
-No One  ......it is purely a matter of (i hate to use the term......)
Choice.

Titus & Susan

All one has to do is "follow the money."

Yeah, the phrase gets thrown around alot, but it's true nonetheless.

The Lobbyist and Special interest groups, Banks, Media, Billionaires, Auto Makers etc all contributed to the Dems and to insure the Dems were elected. 

It was a huge, well thought out, meticulously planned agenda for a while now.

You scratch our back, we'll scratch yours.

So if you want to invest your money, just follow where it went.  You won't lose a penny then.

However, it's blood money and I would advise, beware.

2BlueStarMom--  you are right on it!
i would also like to make an observation.  our country was founded on the belief in God.  because of the liberal view, God has been taken our of the public domain.  that is when this country blew up.  children have been raised to not respect anyone or anything.  this was every evident in the school systems when my son was attending.  i saw it often.  as a result, we now have a mess!  there are no basic principles by which everyone tries to follow.  people are now out for themselves, and for a lot of people there is no longer shame in taking handouts.  i'll go one step further and don't care if i offend others--now we are in the "baby mama" generation and I am offended.  this is the result of poor parenting and no basic belief system by which children can abide by.  as a result, it took more efforts on our part to reverse the damage my son was learning from stupid people.  families have fallen apart.  there seems to be no limits in what is becoming the norm, and a lot of people in the US are told just to accept it.  i don't think so!  however, if i go crazy and do accept this stupidity,  i'll be willing to run naked in the middle of new york just to try to fit in with these loons!  NOT HAPPENING! 
 

Titus
"our country was founded on the belief in God.  because of the liberal view, God has been taken our of the public domain.  that is when this country blew up.  children have been raised to not respect anyone or anything.  this was every evident in the school systems when my son was attending "

Yep, I remember when it happened. 

My daddy was a Marine. German. My mother, a Swede. 

We were raised to be very, respectful!  lol

You respect another persons home and you abide by their rules when you visit their home.

Yes sir, No Ma'm and don't ask them for anything and don't dare touch anything, without permission,  in someone's home if we go for a visit.  You break it, you pay for it, one way or another!  hahaha

When we received visits in our home, we treated our guest with kindness, they did not have to ask for anything, it was offered and they did not come into our home, insulting us or threatening us.  Why would they?

They would never come back if they did!

Quite simply put, it's common courtesy.  Respect.

Which leads me back to Urban Conservative.

I don't go to Liberal sites (homes) and try to start trouble or offend them or ask them for anything.

I don't bother them. I realize they have their own mind set.  Why bother? I don't want to try to change them.

But why do they come here? 

It's back to that same thing again they keep accusing us of trying to do to them.....excuse me???

I just don't get it.   There are so many other things going on in this world, so much heart ache, so much hardship, so much of,  just plain life to deal with, why look for trouble?   What purpose does it serve? 

Self gratification and huge egos?

I am starting to accept what I have tried to ignore for so many years;   they are totally, hopelessly, confused!

With that, I guess I will close for the evening.

Good night my friends!

David,
I read your blog above about how the conservatives are always saying that the liberals are forcing their beliefs on them,  and though the conservatives may not force their beliefs back, they are furious that the libs don't convert....(my words)..
But what you objected to most, I think I heard you say, was that you didn't want their faith forced out in the public arena.
But David....listen man....liberalism...is a theology too. It is a complete philosophy that has its prophets and ordered moral ...and devotees to the death...It literally qualifies as a religion.
Unlike the religions that have a higher deity and are individually responsible to that God for their morallity...
the liberal theology is man ordered, man constructed ...worships the brain and is a corporate (social) accountablity....that is enforced.  No choice.
It is exactly the reverse of what you have written above.....
It is in fact that the liberal theology has already forced itself onto the public in the form of science ,,,which reflects their beliefs about creation, in psychology....in what they will study in the classics....
and of course they insist on changing the laws that were based on the constitution....which has been established on the freedom of individuality held sacred to the Higher Deity religions...           
 
You just aren't right about this. but I am not surprised if you weren't aware of this...because liberal theology has many many devotees...and very few are aware of what they serve.
 
                                             ology    ycholyology....

Hi Susan!  

Bingo, there you go again!

But of course, you know you are "right!"

Guess that confirms what I just stated.
"they are totally, hopelessly, confused!"

Reminds me of an Old Led Zepplin song

Been dazed and confused for so long it's not true.......

Titus,
Sorry you got the poison from that poor lady.
I wonder what she is so upset about...She got her guy....what else does she want? Evidently she still wants to fight.

One of my brothers is a kind of borderline liberal......and last night I simply said, I hope we don't get too far away from what makes this country different than the others....

and he really gave it to me....I inherited every thing...
Just because I said that.
He assumed my every position.
I let him at it....
And then...I said, when he cooled down..."o.k. I hope our country does get away from what makes it different..:

He gave me this funny look....and I could see he saw he had just spun out on me...
But it's sensitive stuff....this difference..

Friday night at Guilford College...I was talking to a lawyer specializing in constitutional law....and he told me there are several areas of education now being revamped for their violation of religion/state separation. Mainly in the subjects of history....that it is being expanded to include the historical details of Jesus Christ ...I guess because of the impact this religion has made on history and it is inevitable.....and that there be a course in the major religions......and with Science ....that there is now going to be a caveat included about the theories of earth's beginnings....that what science can document is based solely on certain model of theories and evidence...
So, I thought that was very interesting.
We had a great talk. 

Hmmm, this is an interesting update on fox blurb.....soviet sub had some type of mishap off Venezuela...allegedly 20 dead, 25 injured in war games.

Also, FYI, U.S. has been trying to oust Venezuela in Houston because they moved their office without permission from State Dept.

They were then told to get out of U.S. and stop operations....but of course, it's the "democratic" way for them to stay open and ignore U.S. law.

USSR states there is no radiation spill from the subs....hmmm

That's their story and they're sticking it to us.

Well, does that surprise anyone here?  

Yep, I can see the writing on the wall.

New President with no Cajones, missiles aimed at us if we don't give in to??

Perhaps Iran and Israel impending conflict gets escalated.....U.S. don't get involved or we'll have to stop you?   Biden's little slip of his forked tongue may be coming to theaters sooner than anticipated....

2BlueStarMom - your observations are always right on target.  i'm so glad i've found a place where most people are sane!  ha!  as you saw from my above post about being attacked by a liberal, i think they try to cause trouble and then play the victim as we have seen on this site.  then at one point after all of the daggers are thrown, they want us to all get along.  i think this is more than people agreeing to disagree and sharing experiences and opinions.  it is more like they are attacking us for having common sense.  i was speaking to a friend of mine on Friday night, and he asked me to please mention to the attacker that my african-american friend (him) said that she was trying to make it about race.  he also called her a bully.  i don't see this as a race issue and my friend can vouch for me but he said he could plainly see it.  the hate these people spread is unbelievable.  that is a lesson that i've learned this election period.  it is truly unfortunate but there are a lot of folks out there that are like that and they turn on you within seconds.

Susan:  i know that really bothered you when your brother blew up like that.  during a conversation a while back between my husband and one of his sisters, the sister all of the sudden said you are a republican and tried to crucify him for it.  now the conversation was not about politics and they were discussing a family issue.  of course, my husband stood his ground but it floored him that all of the sudden things turned nasty and about politics.  so this leads me to believe this has to be mental?  i'm not sure but it is getting out of hand.  this election has divided people but not in the way liberals would like us to believe.  yes, their policies are absolutely ridiculous and will bankrupt this country but i believe there is more.  they won't take responsibility for their bad decisions and play the blame game.  however, the republicans have been quick to admit mistakes.  liberals are speading hatred and want this country to be a free for all, anything goes society that is based on welfare.  so running naked through the streets would not be out of the question it would seem. 

Susan(328)
"But David....listen man....liberalism...is a theology too. It is a complete philosophy that has its prophets and ordered moral ...and devotees to the death...It literally qualifies as a religion."

Well, no....not really.  liberalism would be the choice to worship or to simply not to worship.....if the individual sees fit not to.  It's a CHOICE.

Here in North Carolina, the agents of overt pandering to the christian right  (Robin Hayes & Libby Dole) lost last Tuesday.  Fellow Tar heels have spoke and rejected this collusion of religion & politics.....but please feel free to worship at a church ,synagogue, temple or mosque near you....it's one of your freedoms i served to protect!

David...
first thank you again for giving so much to protect freedom...This I am not questioning...
And also I don't question your manner of searching....in debate...to see what is there that can hold up and what cannot. It has long been the arena for discovering truth...debating between two totally committed people coming from different perspectives..
I am only presenting to you the fact that Christianity has never made any bones about what it is. Even though the men who came here originally were not all committed converts to this faith ...being fruit from the age of reason and so digusted with the corrupted church in England....they still had enough reason to see the value in the freedom inherit in the Chrsitian faith.....and it was on the basis of the individual freedom and proctection thereof...that the constitution was based.
That is the base of our country.
Anyone who doesn't want that freedom....really would inherently hate this country.
Our whole political system has underneath it this same GIVEN. that a higher power governs these elected officials...and that is why...to make your point from many blogs before...that it would be difficult to elect a professed atheist...in this country.
Dole lost the election...not because of her religion....but because of her hypocrisy ...In her attempts to squash her opponent on the basis of not serving God.....she betrayed her own lack of faith.

And as I said also...before about socialism being a religion.....it is totally forced on those who have another faith entirely....both in our education and in the laws that keep getting altered to accomodate that faith..
which will insist that we also take from our savings and that we shut up about it or else we are OFFENDING someone.
As you demonstrate....there is no tolerance at all for any expression of the faith that worships a God Almighty and the individual freedom to reallly live without fear.
If you blog onto ACLJ.org....you can see the fight right now for simple areas of schooling and freedom of expression that just go hand in hand with the liberal's approach of entitlement.
And the thing is David,
WE WERE HERE FIRST>
This blog is a good metaphor for America's history....It plainly reads one thing on the label.....freedom....freedom to express who we are.....freedom to property and to make something of ourselves....unfettered.
We have fought wars over this...as you have mentioned.
But there are those who come right onto the very blog that reads one thing and they turn the freedom aguement around and say, "That upsets me. That is not what I want to hear."  And they think they have a right to silence that voice.
And they don't.
Our constitution says so......
So here's the thing.....do you know what you fought for? 

Titus,
Thanks for the good words about my brother....He is a great guy really, but it just surprised me how upset he got just because I used that phrase about hoping our country didn't lose what made it unique...
I understood he wouldn't have reacted that way....that emotionally, if he didn't thnk there was something in what I said.  If it wasn't true at all...he would have let it go...
but it presses a button.

In the end...as much as I am devoted to this brother of mine, I am not responsible for his choices.   We all struggle with our own stuff...and I trust his process.....that he will find his way.
Anyway....it isn't my business.

Check out ACLJ.org....extremely interesting.

2blueStar
and Tankerton....
I also suggest you check out ACLJ.ORG
I would love to hear your feedback on that site.

Susan.  Just confirms what we have been saying. 

They are nuts!

During an Election Day interview on Fox News, Senator Chuck Schumer (D-New York) took a jab at critics of the Fairness Doctrine, and suggested radio stations should be required to be "fair and balanced."

"The very same people who don't want the Fairness Doctrine want the FCC to limit pornography on the air," Schumer stated. "I am for that. I think pornography should be limited. But you can't say 'government hands off' in one area to a commercial enterprise, but 'you're allowed to intervene' in another. That's not consistent."

Susan....

What nation are you talking about?  The constitution i swore to defend does not mention a "Christian Nation"..........
The United States Constitution
Preamble:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.......
No mention of a Christian Nation here in the Preamble of the constitution i swore to defend.....

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
all the way down to Article VI of our Constitution before a mention of religion is even made......but it still doesn't prescribe this nation as a "Christian Nation".

Again, feel free to worship as you see fit......it's your right!

I'm quite sure they will rejoice when he changes this as well:

I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America
And to the Republic, for which it stands
ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE TO ALL

David, if what you say is true, then the constitution is meaningless drivel.
One more time for the fat lady,
but no more after this.....because you can just check out this same argument we had together.....in earlier writings.....
This is my area of knowledge...thelogical as applied to society. You mentioned earlier...that you had your background in Engineering....that I don't have. Math isn't my thing....or the related physics of such....I have a brother who is...so I know what I don't know....and I know what I do know.
About the Christian foundings of our Constitution is one og them
The American War of Independence was was upon John Locke's Second Treatise which was founded entirely on NATURAL LAW>
Natural law starting with Aristotle depends on the teleological, Greater intelligence as designer of the universe. ...this is what opened the field of mediieval law....in Europe....and the idea of separation of state and church.....into political and spiritual realms....
This is kEY: One dealt with making good citizens. The other with making good humans....both rooted in natural law....and this natural law was God given. We find these truths.....
This was the entire foundation of everything that we now call Western Civilization. Everyone from Franklin to Washington invokes God's blessings for the success of American dependence...and later the constitution.
Adams insisted that the Constitution was made only for moral and religious people, SELF-Constrained by their individual morality.
And that it coulnd't work for any other people.  
If it bothers you that you have hung your hat on a constitution that you no longer believe in.....that is for you to decide.
And what you said about politicians not being required to take a religious test.....These too are just words.....as you have made the point before....people who claim no not believe.....know they had better save their money and time.....and not bother running for office in this country.
words aren't where it's at.
intention....It's the intention of our constitution.....
 

David, I also think there might come a time in this country where those who believe in the values of the constitution and what "binds us" will agree to be bound again.....because paradoxically, it is the only agreement that allows for fruitful freedom. It could be that this people who will decide again that it is worth standing up for will claim their inheritance....and perhaps stop being ashamed of their beliefs.
I am not ashamed of mine at all.
When the Republican Party stops being embarrassed of their conservative beliefs, everyone who also agrees.....and there are so many ....it is dizzying.....two to one....everyone of those believers will recognize the truth.
Truth is not relative....it is absolute...and cannot be apologized for.
Accept it or not....We can all choose the way or not choose it.
Truth isn't a matter of opinion....or it ceases to be truth...Even people limted to reason can figure that one out.
but

Susan:  i like your points.  it is funny that liberals are saying in order to get our party back on track, we need to think differently and revise our beliefs.  ha!  quite to the contrary:  i think people should just "get smart."  what a novel idea!  liberals want no boundaries, i.e., killing babies, tearing down families, faith, etc.  that is part of what is tearing our country apart now. 

Well Susan & Titus......
I  never thought i'd change your mind (about our country as a secular nation)
But it is something the republican party will need to deal with, since it was the fundamentalist end of the ticket that lost that election last tuesday......
just think if Mitt Romney had been on the ticket instead of Palin.
-it could have been different!

Susan, Titus, DS, Dave, Tank, friends:

Have a new grand baby going to be born this week. 

He is a real miracle.   Will share another time.

If I disappear for a few days, that is why. 

Son's wife wants me to stay with her for a couple of days to help her.  She's scared bless her heart!

Here is a little something I posted on another blog here:

"The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world
will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas -- a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish,
and the ideals to which we are dedicated."

--- Ronald Reagan

David, if they really thought that Sarah Palin is what lost it for them, how come they are now courting her to be apart of their new front? and they see her as a strong enough pull that both sides are trying to hobble her before she gets up her second wind. 
I think she is a great gutsy person.

And David, I didn't miss how you let that last subject drop.
How can we ever build on any debate if that is how they conclude?

I really don't think you want to build...or to in any way expand your perspective.
What do you hope to achieve here with what you are doing?  You clearly don't agree and more than that.  you seem to hate just about everything conservative/Christian/Right stands for...
Just the idea that the constitution could have been formed upon these same truths....really seems to bother you.
 
  

2blue Star
What a great, great thing...a baby changes everything. Check in when you get back.

2BlueStar,

Congratulations on your new grand baby!  I pray that everything goes well.  I have two grand babbies, one of each.  The love of a grandchild is very different than anything you will have experienced.  It is truly a gift from God!!

2BlueStarMom --

Congrats!  i'm so happy for you guys.  Babies are always blessings!  Enjoy! 

2BlueStarMom--

Congratulations!  i'm so happy for you!  Children are blessings from God!

I'm the first President of the Law Republicans. I started a blog that has generated a lot of interest in young Republicans. Please check it out, subscribe to it, and spread the word. Continuing the discussion on how the party should move forward will be a major step in the right direction.

http://newrepublican.wordpress.com/

346.....
Congratulations 2BlueStarMom!
Susan 347
Who is courting Sarah Palin?  (Other than the christian right)

New Republican...welcome,
This is a great site. There are several well informed conservatives here who actually have something to say. I WILL check out the site you provided. And there is a networking that is now taking shape now that the gloves are coming off and we still have our constitutional law to back us up. It's the best time to be a conservative that I can remember.

 David, Palin has already been invited on board by the Republican party for 2012. She is considered enough of a threat that even certain threatened hopefuls for 2012 are trying to cut the legs off from beneath her before she can rise back up.
Remember that her acclaim in Alaska was in standing up to the good old boys in her own party ...and that is how she has been so effective.
She doesn't care what anyone thinks....not the women's liberation movement that are mocking her for having a down syndrome child, nor that she likes to ride snow mobiles...
And the more they are mocking her, the more other women who hadn't been anti-feminist are suddenly angry at this uncalled for assault.
She is redefining women who are liberated who don't have to compromise their values.....and can still go right to the top.
Palin, Newt Gingrich....and one other...can't remember his name...but these are the first three that  the Republican party have singled out.
Palin...mainly because she has at this moment.....68% approval and on support ...nationwide.....which is interesting....tells me that even those who voted for Obama for whatever reasons....were not all against Palin. Not everyone who voted for Obama hated Palin....and they are now getting to know more about her....the same way many are now getting to see another side of Obama.....now that the election propaganda machine has sputtered out.
Washington Post just posted an apology for the unfair negative coverage they had given on Palin.....and how they had "like a gaping hole" avoided Biden. 
I guess because their credibility has impacted their sales. Duh.

 
Her

Susan,
Liberals aren't mocking her for her down syndrome child.....they mock her utter ignorance and world affairs.
"She is redefining women who are liberated who don't have to compromise their values.....and can still go right to the top."
-maybe in Alaska, but not in the lower 48 (or Hawaii)....i don't see Alaskans as representative of the rest of the nation.  Maybe she didn't compromise her values, yet many Americans value intelligence for their leaders to possess.
Knowledge is one value Mrs. Palin decided wasn't worth pursuing.

"...they mock her utter ignorance and world affairs."
They mock her utter ignorance IN world affairs.

yeah, Biden needs to be held to the same standards Palin was and that didn't happen.  if he has so much experience and knows the issues, he should have shown this on the campaign trail.  no one is holding him accountable for his "misses" except for folks like me.  hmmmm!  what would cause him to not know the facts? 

There's a difference between a misstatement and plain ignorance.

I don't claim to know where the interest is coming from, as in actual locations, this interest in Sarah Palin, but it is there....and it isn't just republican. And she WAS critized for having her downsyndrome baby ....that she was her own worst witness, making the case for pro-choice.....Baldwin said it. But then he says everything. However, that kind of talk isn't politically correct, so that was the end of it....and there was this whole uproar from special ed groups....so the liberals couldn't go there...or you know they would have.
liberals never go any where that isn't popular......they have to read a newspaper to see how they feel.

2bluestarmom,
I saw you on the new repulican site....
and I had this great feeling....
Listen...I have a picture of myself I would like to put up like you and David have....and I don't know how to do that....
Can you explain it.
But first....pretend I am in the lower 2 percentile of dumb when it comes to  doing this kind of thing....actually no pretense is neccessary.

LOL...I don't know how to do it either!

Oh No!!!!   Do you realize what that makes us?

"There's a difference between a misstatement and plain ignorance. "

I guess that means that we are ignorant like Sarah Palin? 

I know my picture used to be up there, but when I joined with the UC community, Poof, it disappeared!

I can't wait to see your picture.

Although, I did cheat a while back when you told me your name and I found you on the internet under your celebrity status and history!

uh oh...I could be a stalker! 

"Always remember that you are Americans, and it is your birthright to dream great dreams in this sweet and blessed land, truly the greatest, freest, strongest nation on Earth." — Ronald Reagan

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan

2BlueStarMom:
<<"There's a difference between a misstatement and plain ignorance. "
I guess that means that we are ignorant like Sarah Palin?">>
-if you were to step on the world stage, YES, i'd expect you to know a bit about basic geography and the fundamentals of foreign policy and even a bit of history
I didn't particularly like Ronald Reagan, yet he inspired enough confidence in me to continue my service.....i may not have agreed with Mike Huckabee on much, but he seemed to be able to carry on a conversation about world events.  Mrs. Palin did not impress me with any knowledge about anything that mattered with respect to foriegn affairs.  To send our service members into harms way at her request would seem disrespectful to those who have to answer that call.

2blue star,
remember my friend, that the site your may have pulled up about me was me at twenty....I have ...how shall we say...progressed since then.
I will do it....I will get the picture up...my husband has talents in that area...
And I loved what you had up there from Reagan.
I feel like I am watching such a horror movie with all these bailouts...
If this is the beginning, can you imagine the response with real trouble...
And once it gets into people's pensions....their savings....that is defined as violation of our property....I predict there will be a whole other kind of bailout en mass....out of this country. end of story.....and there will be those who still have enough resources who have no intention of relocating will contest it with the constitution behind them. And the precedent will be set.....
Or not....in which case that will be the end of america.
And what is sickening is how many people will just love that.....dancing at their own graveside.
I can hardly believe how very little people require of their brains.

Susan...I knew that! LOL

But, beauty is also skin deep as well.  We all have improved with age.

As for the future, I feel like we are all holding our breath.

Watch and pray.  That's all we can really do.

I would still like to see those where were responsible for the financical fiasco, impeached, fired, shipped to the moon, whatever!

I just want accountability. Most of those were re-elected back into office, which is even more insane.  It is def. scary!

2BlueStarMom.....
<<I would still like to see those where were responsible for the financical fiasco, impeached, fired, shipped to the moon, whatever!>>
I don't know whatever became of former senator Phil Gramm.

i have the question of the night.  could someone answer this one please?

how many missteps does it take to equal one count of ignorance? 

i would think that some "missteps" (i question that) when communicating with foreign leaders could cause major trouble.  i would rather someone not know something than think they know everything and cause us to make more enemies than we have now.  of course, that may me just me................  

@Titus Hunt

Hear Hear!!!

He became my favorite candidate because the poor guy never had any idea what he was talking about. Course, you'll never get the libs to admit that, they would rather just bash Sarah.

Russell -- true, true.  oh, but he has been in Washington for 36 years!  that goes to show you what happens when a liberal stays in Washington too long!  why didn't the liberals answer my question?  ha!  i just finished watching Greta Van Sustren's interview with Sarah Palin.  Sarah is a smart person and would be an asset to all honest people in Washington.  that is the problem.  Biden and all of those idiots use politics as a weapon, and Sarah would use common sense to do what is right for our country.  Now we have to deal with two idiots for four years running our country into the ground.   

good question about how many misteps = ignorance?

But it's also true...
the converse is true too...
how many mispeakings equal the truth...
                         That was how I felt about Biden ...that it was precisely when his party said he mispoke that I felt we were getting the truth....
 

So you still think Palin was a smart move?  That's not what a majority of voters thought.....
You guys are missing the point to continue to rationalize Palin's lack of knowledge as we all witnessed in her interviews......the republican brand lost because of her.  A knowledgeable person with conservative credentials may have won the election for the ticket.....like a Mike Huckabee.  But McCain was pandering to the so-called dissatisfied Hillary voters, and it didn't work.  In fact it fell flat on it's face!
Blame the liberal media all you want.  Playing the blame game isn't gonna win elections for you.  Most people have news sources other than MSM anyway, so how do you account for that?

This conversation seems to be a lost cause.

It just goes round and round and comes back full circle.

So..........What do you think about them Cowboys?!

@2Blue

I am a Texan and I absolutely can't stand em. I have been sooo happy cause pinky finger boy has been out a few weeks. Hopefully his pinkie is still hurting and he can't come back. Not that they were very good with him.... If not his pinkie maybe his girlfriend will show up. LOL

My youngest son is a Longhorn's fan, the middle son Gamecocks, the eldest
Oklahoma Sooners.

Me, I LOVE  49ers, Steve Young but alas, he is no longer playing.  

So now I have to show support to all of  "My 3 Sons" teams.

I need a life!

it will("This conversation seems to be a lost cause.")
remain that way if you wish.....to not face facts my friend.  Palin lost that election for your guys.  Keep that mind set and your brand will loose a few more.

I sent a request to UC to see if I could post about something I am wanting to do....here is a little synopsis;

I want to play Santa  for our Military Troops overseas!

I have quite a bit of Teddy Bears, stuffed animals and other toys that are excess inventory.

If you are or know, a military troop overseas and they would like to send a gift to a soldiers child, please contact me

I will send a "Free" teddy bear or other toy to a little one (s).

Because we are a small store, I only ask they pay the shipping.

If their circumstances are so terribly bad that they can't do this,
I will take care of it.

So, if anyone has a family member, serving overseas, have them contact me.   Hope it was ok to put this in here....

2BlueStarMom.....
Nice sentiment and i know your heart is in the right place........., but more could be accomplished by reducing the amount of time our Service Members spend deployed, which is another reason i voted for Obama.  His plans for an increase in troop strength (by 100,000 Soldiers and Marines) as well as a cut back in deployments to Iraq will make lots of troops happy by being home, one day.
But you are right that our troops need home support this holiday season....it's a great idea!  You go girl!

@David #375

How's the weather in your little world?? 

Palin was the right choice and I know this because you and all your liberal buddies continue to try to demonize her. That makes me like her all the more. Anybody you all spend soo much time trying to convince the whole world is a moron is ok in my book. She didn't lose anything for anybody, she is the only reason it was as close as it was. Just admit that you are all scared of her. Admit it. It is ok. She STILL to this day has more experience than Barack Hussein Obama (and her name is easier to write). And as far as Joe Biden is concerned it is not even close. He has years more experience and still has to keep a surgical staff on site to remove his foot from his mouth daily.

I know I will never convince you..... But keep on bashing her. Just makes her look that much better.

And btw, if "most" people have a source other than the MSM, are they still the main stream?? Yeah... keep pushing that argument.

Hey Russell!

Did you see her on Greta?

She really is quite the lady, isn't she?

She has touched so many hearts and has so much integrity.  I am very proud of Americans like this.

Integrity, Respect, you can't buy those, it's earned.

Anyway, I am proud of her.

Go Niners, SF Giants, Stanford Cardinal, Iowa Hawkeyes!!   Did you see that Tim Lincecum won the NL Cy Young yesterday?  Very nice, and only his first full year in the majors!  He is a stud!   ;-}

How's the weather in your little world?? Russell @ 378......clue me in on what you mean by "your little world".......
-The weather is fine here in the Tar Heel state, a bit cool and i am looking forward to those "Heels" taking to the court again this season at the Dean Smith Center .
I haven't got to see the Van Sustrin interview.....yet i did see Mrs. Palin's Couric interview and it did speak volumes as to her utter lack of knowledge to fill in as Commander-in-Chief.  And remember, Palin felt confident enough at that point to think she knew enough to talk to Katie unscripted.....big mistake.  Oh, and the "Sarkoszy" telephone call was priceless.......no, i don't think America needs another laughing stock running this nation.  The votes and the polling indicate that it ain't just me, either my friend!
I understand the idea that you guys want one of "your kind" (fundamentalist christian) to lead....it's understandable.  Yet we need a leader with some degree of intelligence, and a grasp of the "big picture", reguardless of their religeous convictions.

DS

yes but I can't help myself.  Steve Young just makes my heart go pitter patter and he is my stud! LOL

David 377

It will be nice to have them all come home.  That would be very nice.
Meanwhile, their morale has to stay up.  Many are worried about what's going on here at home and can't pay all their bills much less buy presents.

So, I have lots of things I was going to donate to Toys for Tots or the wounded warrior fund but there is so much it would cost a fortune to ship them to these folks and some of them don't want to deal with the hassle.

So I figured I would do it myself and try to make it a little more personal.

Perhaps include a little note from mommy or daddy in the box.

I sent about 1,000 stuffed bears etc. with my missionary group to honduras a few years ago and still have about 500 left.   I was supposed to go there but a family emergency came up so I sent the toys on my behalf. tee hee~

2BlueStarMom.....
ever think of Volunteering at a local VA Hospital?

David

Hate to break this to you man, but we got another laughing stock running this nation as of January. Just in case you forgot....

And I was speaking of fantasyville, just curious, if I ever get tired of reality I might come visit....

One thing I will say, I have gotten more of the funniest e-mails and text msgs I have ever gotten since the election. I hope this part keeps up cause I am rolling.

Has anybody seen the new presidential limo??? It has 24" chrome spinners for wheels. Priceless.

David #384

Sorry David. I missed that post.

Yes, I do still visit but it is hard for me to do this. 

I am very passionate about our Vets and have had to raise Cain a few times too many when I see neglect.   The establishment does not always like to see me coming.

Actually, I grew up taking care of Veteran's for the majority of my life.

I just sent my Brother home to be near his kids, a few months ago.

173rd Airborne Viet Nam Vet, who I was taking care of for 2 years.

When my daddy died, it was because of negligence by the V.A.

It has been very hard for me every time I go back into V.A. Hospitals to not get involved, however, I was very angry for many years at what they did to him or actually, failed to do. 

That is why I wrote the poem. "My Father's Voice"

It was because of how they failed to treate him that lead to his death.

I am involved with the VFW, Amvets and the Paralyzed Veterans of America, but again, limited at this time.

2bluestar

I am sorry you had a sad experience with that VA hospital. I did training at the VA hospital by Duke which was truly excellent and I guess quality of hospitals are far reaching. But just my opinion here, sometimes when we have a bad feeling about a place, it helps to visit there again. ...to get it moving ....But I know what you mean. Easier said than done.

Hi Susan...I hear ya!

Actually, when my brother was living with me, he was experiencing back pain which progressively got worse.

I kept taking him to the V.A. in Charleston, SC and they kept giving him more meds for pain etc.

I told him to have them do an MRI as his symptoms were indicating to me that there was some type of neurological implication happening but they would not do it.

This went on for months.

Then he could not hardly walk or move.

Then he was basically crawling and using me to assist him to do his basic living activities and was in excruciating pain whether lying still or moving.

So, I got on my high horse, took him to a civilian hospital, here in town, they did a cat scan...he had a tumor and said he needed immediate surgery or would end up paralyzed.

Well,  I can assure you, the V.A. was on notice and I did not let up. LOL

At any rate, he is ok now. But it was several months of rehab.

Yes, it will be a good thing for me to start where I left off.  If I can remain calm!

You and David are right. 

If anyone wants to finish where we left off before the election was over, please go here and sign the petition to Stop Acorn.

Don't know how ya'll feel but I am still ticked off at our hundreds of millions of tax dollars going to these folks for corruption.

http://stopacorn.org/index.php?option=com_rsform&Itemid=5

2BlueStarMom--petition signed!

2bluestar

I signed it. Thanks for directing me to that site.

Did anyone see the piece on Fox about the poster advertisement of this person in a santa suit. ...and the ad reads something like

                            why believe in god?
                       Just be good for goodness sake! 

Russell....
i don't think you'd have fun.....a fantasy might just rock your reality if you  crack racist jokes.

David,

See, here you go again. Your guy won. You don't have to call everybody racist anymore. I heard they were a little late getting that memo to everyone, so I will pass that along.

And I agree, I don't think I would have fun in fantasyville, I just like reality too much. Oh well.

Russ....
<< You don't have to call everybody racist anymore>>
Your remarks in 385 speak of your limited racial view that would lead to a mouthful of broken teeth in my neighborhood(here in fantasy land, my brothers wouldn't let a crack like that go without a bit clarification....)
Here in Fantasy land we are very sensitive to Lee Atwaterish remarks.  Don't try to act coy down here with backhand racist remarks my friend.  North Carolina isn't a red as it once was.....Jesse Helms is dead!

But it's ok to call Christians evil names?  Make threatening remarks, go to their churches and disrupt services?

David W, please, define racism for me.  I am serious.  No joking.  What is description of a racist?

Yes David, please tell us.

It's been sad to me how tense racially we are right now. A student was assaulted by four other students today as a racist for wearing a McCain button.
and during the campaign... how many times we heard that this race wasn't about that..., but for so many it had been one of the driving forces.
 
I do think it in part was about breaking that ceiling, which is what gave me some solace when I could see that the reason a strong number of minorities had voted for Obama was to alter the image of what power could look like......which is done now, and it's a good thing ...at least that.
The other reason I think they wanted Obama was in how much governmental help they hoped to receive...and his views about immigration.
Which I think they will be disappointed by....
I

396:
if a group of Christians actively promote discrimination, they have only themselves to blame if members of the oppressed group lash out.....i would only hope it does not come to violence.

397:
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups.

Well, I can argue that white people are stupid because I just lost another incredibly worded diatribe for I still don't understand why....very frustrating...I believe that 2+2 =4...does it not?  Anyway, gotta return to work now....BUT, is it possible that the best and simplest definition of racism is the belief that your miseries are somehow attributable to those of another color?

David, Tank:

397:
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups.

I guess the fact that Obama won the election to the highest office in the U.S., blows that old excuse right out of the water.    Whites are now the minority, so this means we are being discriminated against and they are now the racist, right?

So rediculous

2BlueStarMom writes:
<<Whites are now the minority, so this means we are being discriminated against and they are now the racist, right?>>
I'm sure you're a nice person in many ways.....
yet i have to wonder what possesses you to make an assertion like the above?  Are you joking?
Old racist attitudes that won elections for republicans in the past using the deeds of Lee Atwater are history!  Young voters are smart enough to see the covert racism that some still try to pass... Yeah, "The times they are a changin'......"

David, did we become the minority because Obama won the Presidency?
No, blacks are still a minority in this nation.....Do you think it ill-advised for a nation such as ours to be led by a member of a  racial minority?   What do you think of the notion "most of the people happy most of the time"?  Does the realistic achievability of such a goal  threaten the ideal of  "all of the people happy all of the time"?   And finally, where is this earthly utopia wherein all races and cultures co-exist and happily step aside for another race's advancement, even to the detriment of their own?  Africa?... South America? Asia?  The Middle East?  Where is this Eden to which we consistently measure America's racist evil?  It certainly can't just be in the minds of liberals?  There must be a real place right?  I mean, I certainly hope that America is not the most culturally tolerant place on earth..

Tank:
<<I believe that 2+2 =4...does it not? >>
Hell, you can cypher!
And i certainly don't think you are dumb......lots of smart yankees dismissed Lee Atwater, and it cost them......just ask Mike Dukakis.

David

Lee Atwaterish??? Could be the funniest thing I have heard all day. Doesn't make it compelling, but it is funny.

Then you write "Old racist attitudes that won elections for republicans in the past using the deeds of Lee Atwater are history!"

WTF?? are you talking about?? I am not that old, but I honestly can't remember the last time anybody (republican or democrat) lynched the black candidate. Maybe you could clarify.
 
And I guess you are not a fan of the 24" spinner wheels on your ride. That's ok, some like them and some don't. I am having a real hard time figuring out how any particular kind of wheel on a car is a black thing?? You know, it is you closet racist punks that irritate the hell out of me. So quick to jump on everybody else's case for anything you intuit to be racist to make yourself look and feel tolerant. You need to clean out your closet before you go looking into everybody else's, sounds like there is alot of stuff to clean. But, hey, whatever wins elections, right???
 
And, sadly, I guess I will have to amend my travel plans. Apparently fantasyville isn't nearly as nice as the pamphlet made it out to be. I completely overlooked the "whitey clause". Stupid fine print.

all i have to say is that on national tv an african american female said that they would vote for him to get him in office and he would pay her back by paying for her mortgage and bills.  what does that tell you?

2BlueStarMom:

racist

adjective

1. 
based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks" 

2. 
discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion 

noun

1. 
a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others 

Try not to be so selective in your dictionary look-ups.

Russ:
<<And I guess you are not a fan of the 24" spinner wheels on your ride...>>
<<how any particular kind of wheel on a car is a
black thing?? >>

And the "Willie Horton" ad wasn't meant to provoke racist tendencies, huh?
My Dodge PU has no spinner's, just a gun rack.......i s'pose you think it's cute(your attempt at humor.....)
Lee Atwater and the "Willie Horton" ad was a sly way of injecting racism, just as the Rev. J. Wright clip was used in Pa. & N.C. the weekend prior to the election......an attempt by the RNC to use the old "Southern Strategy" began by Dick Nixon and perfected by Lee Atwater.
<<.....sounds like there is alot of stuff to clean.>>
Hearing things?  -it's a clear sign you need help.
But i am glad to irritate a racist punk such as you russ...

David,
Although I really do support your instinct to defend people, especially minorities.....
         and I hate that deliberately racially demeaning crud going around right now.

If you think it through....that reaction is to be expected from certain kinds of insecure people...when their world view has just been turned upside down....so what do they do to gain some elevation? they demean the other. You know that.
 
but what I don't understand is falling for the bait....actually getting into it...to the point of being "glad to irritate a racist punk such as...whoever"
 don't let that kind of insecure talk make you lose your cool.
not that you asked.....be that as it may. 

David

I think you should "pimp your pickup". 24" spinners and a gun rack could start a whole new trend. Put a golden retriever in the back and you would have it made. And call me crazy, but the only one "injecting racism" as you so adequately put it, was the one and only, the messiah, Barack Hussein Obama. But that is different huh. He is black so he can be as discriminating as he wants. Just like you and your Dave Chappel "fried chicken" joke. But that is different, huh. You see Dave, it's time to quit injecting racism everywhere. I dislike the messiah not because he is black, but because he is a moron. If that makes me racist against morons, so be it. maybe that is why you and I don't get along so well.....

Dora 408

Well, that tells me that liberals are racist.

I have a mailman who yesterday tried to convince me that George W. Bush secretly hatched the plan to bring down the Twin Towers on 9/11.  You cannot believe that "facts" he cited for me.  It made me so sad for this nation.  My son has a friend who believes that all of humanity is subconciously aware that it is growing too quickly for the planet to support, so his conclusion is that the negative angst caused by the entire collective subconscious is the reason behind the recent increase in infantile autism.
And, a poor woman believes that her president will pay her mortgage and fill up her gas tank.  All of these people have one thing in common.  They each adamantly supported and voted for Barrack Obama.....wow.

Personally, I think that racism exists in every race.  I have to say from experience that I have seen more racist attitudes in black people (not all of them mind you!) than I have in any other race I know.  They don't seem to WANT to get past the sins of the past.  I don't know what it will take for them to be happy.  I do believe that this group lead by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farakan, Rev. Jeremiah Wright and his types may be keeping it going for personal reasons.  Everything is racist to them!  It is very sad.  Until blacks are paid reparrations, I'm not sure they will ever stop pushing their hate ideology.  And to see ANYONE line up behind them like they do is really inexplainable.  And the problem with BHO's coronation is that he was pretty much elected on the basis of the black and young (very unaware of the issues) voters which they signed up with the help of ACORN.  Tell me this doesn't smell like racism?  I had a very good friend at work who was black, and even a christian.  I went to his church with him a few times.  Unfortunately, he also had this same racist attitude as the black "leaders" do.  I never saw him talk down about anyone, BUT he was very serious about his beliefs that blacks would NEVER be equal with whites, and that the sins of our forefathers could NEVER be forgotten.  This is very, very sad!  Maybe after this generation of black hate leaders are gone we MIGHT be able to make more progress, but I'm afraid there will be another line of them coming right behind.  Someone needs to capitalize on this terrible sin.  You know, I think I just realized something.  Sin is so powerful because someone usually capitalizes on it.  It makes man feel good for a "short" time.  But the end of it is empy, and a lie.  ONLY God can fulfill our desires, and ONLY He can resolve the racial issues we are talking about.  I, personally, judge and/or respect people according to their behavior and attitude.  I have many minority friends, and there are many white people that I don't respect.  Yes, there are racists of every color.  Let's not just focus on one race as the problem.  It's an attitude that exists among all races which needs to be cleansed!

I worked in our southern town for years at different hospitals etc. and the blacks here treat white co workers like dirt. 

I was also unit manager at several places and the insubordination and the filthy mouths are unbelievable.  I was very very good to my fellow co workers and treated them with high respect. 

No matter what color, race whatever, I went above and beyond to be kind to all.

They did not appreciate this and still have the attitude that their great great great grandparents were slaves and they are owed.

The blacks threaten and actually comitt crimes against fellow co workers if you try to delegate work for them to do that is their job description.   If you catch them abusing patients, they play the race card.

It is sickening and quite frankly,  many good nurses are no longer working because of this.  You get tired of your tires on your car being slashed, your car being keyed, and some make false allegation with government agencies/entities to get the nurses fired. 

The pathetic thing about what I just stated is a liberal is going to get on here and state "Good! You deserved it.   All whites deserve it. It's pay back time!"

I am sick of hearing this hate they spread like cancer.

DS
You have given this a lot of thought...and I respect that mucho.
I agree mainly...too. But without going into where I don't I just wanted to add something I learned a few years ago about the kind of racism that seems to be purely generated ...
There is another part to this.
when a race says, (in this case the whites) that "I didn't have anything to do with slavery....why do I have to pay?"
We are all guilty of perpetuating past oppressions if we have benefitted in any way from these. If you are white and you are more likely to get a job than a black person, you have benefitted.
We don't want to look at that....how we have continued the oppression by not standing up against it....even though we didn't create it.
That is what I think you mean by the ongoing nature of sin.
We were born into it, but we add our part.
Once we get a brain and can make choices of our own...and don't...but instead defend our innocense we are adding to the problem.

In a group of community leaders ..theologically oriented....I had this opportunity to hear the hearts of some black leaders whom I cared alot for.....and it was at this time I was able to see how deeply they felt about the ongoing oppression.....through the majority of those who were still benefitting by society's continued racism.

What you said about that we need to confess is major.
As a nation....we need to say, "We not only acknowledge the horrible sin of slavery as evil, but we as a nation have been culpable in perpetuating this oppression....and individually any of us who have benefitted by this oppression are so very sorry."
I said something like this in that group session...and I could palpably feel the power in that.....

Susan,
I hear what you are saying, but I think that is actually "part of the problem", and why we can't get past this terrible "disease" of racism.  I wouldn't venture to guess as to the number of times I have heard white politicians and/or other prominent business leaders state EXACTLY what you have stated.  But it doesn't seem to matter!  How many times must it be said before it becomes reality?  Or will it only become reality when we provide them reparrations, or appoint them CEO of every corporation in America?  This is getting absurd!  We have laws in our country to prevent discrimination do we not?  There are discrimination lawsuits happening all of the time!  We could take this discussion down another rathole at this point if we wanted.  Frivolous lawsuits in this country are a BIG reason why medical insurance is so high, why the cost of all of our products/servies are so high.  I know many doctors who have retired because they can't afford their liability insurance.  Is this good for the country?  I don't think so.  So, even though what you say may have a little bit of merit, I believe that it is overblown and merely a red herring for the black hate mongerers of this country to continue doing their thing and profiting on it.  That is a terrible thing!  Maybe at one time our country could have been considered racist, but not now!  There are "racist" individuals in every society.  But that will always be the case.  Our country is NOT a racist country!

One more thing I forgot to mention.  Ever heard of reverse discrimination, where we try to correct a wrong so much that we end up discriminating against the other group?  Does that sound familiar?  My daughter doesn't have a prayer of getting a scholorship or financial aid.  Yet, there are those that will simply because of the color of their skin.  This is wrong!  And why do blacks state openly that "they can't be considered racist" merely because they are in the minority?  This is at the heart of the discussions I used to have with my black friend.  He refused to acknowledge that there were black racists because of that fact.  Tell me there isn't something wrong with that picture. 

And after all of these things that I and 2BlueStar have seen and talked about, is there no wonder why there are some who are tired of this and feel like there is no hope?  Why keep banging your head up against a wall if it isn't working?  Blacks need to start acknowledging the progress we have made, and do what they can to become peacemakers rather than
creating more problems.  I see an analogy between this and the "moderate" Muslims who sit back and say/do nothing to refute this militant Islamic jihad nonsense.  They complain that they are being discriminated against, but they won't stand up and openly reject the jihad mentality.  Why?  Because they're scared is one response.  Hogwash! 

Forgive me if I sound angry...but I am.  And it's righteous anger because I'm tired of blacks keeping this country from moving on.  They are also keeping their own people in bondage.  That is worse than racism!

We are a nation of complete and utter idiots.

Tank,
I disagree with that statement.  We have a lot of intelligent, caring people....more than any other nation in this world.  Want to elaborate a little?  Statements like that don't help solve problems. 

Yes, Amber2.....We are a nation of idiots...people whose ignorance is only outweighed by their boundless gullibility.  Life, for the most part, is simple.
Tell the truth, don't butt in line, mind your own business, and expect the same from others.  Make life fair for yourself and the guy next to you.
You can't make it fair for the guy who hasn't figured out that life isn't fair.
We teach victimization and a hatred of America.  What we get is what you see....unhappy spoiled people.  Yes Amber, I am generalizing.  I actually realize that some of us are good people and extremely fun, charming, and good looking.

DS
I was only giving one side of it, the side that most people never think of...that of realizing that we are still oppressing if we benefit from others' oppressions...
And the reason I think that no matter what we do technically for the blacks will never be enough is because it hasn't hit home to the whites...it really hasn't ...It hasn't gotten to their hearts.
I know there are exceptions....but the angry ones...the ones who can't understand why the jobs and the money and the accalades...aren't enough...are missing the point..
One of the issues that was at play with this election for instance is the number of whites who were paying a kind of penance by voting for Obama...."see now I have supported your elevation, now you can't call me racist." and that is that...wash their hands ....and don't think in a split second these same racists won't take back their old stance of resenting...and all of it....the moment Obama slips up.
It's like with your kids...they want more than your money...

but it's true...anyone who voted because of color...either against or to support is as you say a sheer racist....color has influenced their vote. Period.
It isn't true that blacks can't be racist....they can be racist toward mexicans...asians...whites...and indians...you name it.

I am not defending the other side either...because whenever a country has had to bend backward to make amends....in affirmative action...., there are always those people who will hop on that wagon...and abuse it.
I remember the  late sixties and early seventies when we had to walk on eggs ...and the slogan was "he don't care, he's on welfare." The resentment was horrible.
It didn't help relations I can tell you that...but it might have put some food on the table for some people....and that's what I had to hold to.

It is a result of sin...I know you are right..
I just don't want to add to the pot...and in the end it's our own soul we are working on...isn't it?
Having said that...I have had two major incidents where I got really badly treated  as a result of just the kind of political wretchedness  you have described.....and it took all my heart not to let that poison me against a people....a whole people.because until we feel it in the heart....until we aren't defending ourselves and thus perpetuating the fracture...it will be long in coming.....if ever.

Susan,
I understand.  I don't totally agree, but I do understand.  Thanks for sharing.

DS, I KNOW you understand, and that's more than most folks.
What is generally out there is just a kind of spinning out, pressing somebody's buttons and then having our own buttons pressed.  Like little perfect storms that waste great energy.

not to go on...I'll leave this alone...
But the only thing I know that has ever helped me at all is that I am not responsible for the way other people behave...only how I behave. And every day ...every minute actually....I have the freedom to choose how to be.
But that's it ...no more. I go to sleep.

Susan 410....
<< .......don't let that kind of insecure talk make you lose your cool. not that you asked.....be that as it may.>>
Just letin' you know it won't cause a meltdown on my part.....it's just that i have no problem calling "out" racists.  Judging by the responses supporting Racist Russ...........i'd say it is a notion that must be addressed.
In 397, Tank ask'd me to define racism in light of Russ's racist comment about the "spinner wheels....." which i'll cut and paste again for the forgetful in our midst.
"According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups."
To make a comment such as Russ's is meant to demean and is therefore racist.
Russ's lame attempt of deflection by using the black comic Dave Chappell's work as an excuse doesn't hold a drop of water.
Black persons can point out these racist notions; << He is black so he can be as discriminating as he wants.>>
Dave isn't discriminating Russ!
-Much like i can use self depreciating humor.  But you'd have to be a friend before you could use the same joke in my midst.  A foe using the same joke against me IS doing it to be demeaning.  So,if some one is attempting to demean another of a different race by making a joke, he is therefore by definition, a racist.
So, avoid the racist comments, Russ.

DS 419
......perhaps you could elaborate on this statement you made:
<< They are also keeping their own people in bondage.  That is worse than racism!>>
How are black people keeping themselves in bondage?
Tank 422
<<Life, for the most part, is simple.>>
-Glad it is for you, my friend.  If you had an ounce of empathy, you'd see the ridiculousness of that assertion.
<<We teach victimization and a hatred of America.  What we get is what you see....unhappy spoiled people.>>
While i agree there are many spoiled people in this country,and that victimization&hate are freely disseminated among certain factions in our nation, i have a feeling we aren't on the same page exactly here.....are we?

David,
Black leaders are keeping their own people in bondage by continuing to promote discrimination and racism through their actions and words.  How often do you hear them promoting peace, or encouraging their poor to continue their education so that they can get out of poverty?  And if they are really concerned about their people, why don't they more strongly discourage them from having babies out of wedlock, and spend more time on the positive changes that have been made in our society?  It's only people like Bill Cosby, Lynn Swann, or Clarence Thomas who are brave enough to tell them what they really need to hear.  Jesse, Al, and others are keeping them down because they are their meal ticket, plain and simple.  They AREN'T leaders at all.

Davis,
call the newspapers...I think we actually agree on something. #426

But I also agree with DS in that it is common for negatively focused behavior to self-fullfill its own prophecy.

If somebody tells us long enough that we don't love them...after a while it's true.
And if we are addicted to negativity...especially anger...we aren't interested in anything else that comes at us...we aren't looking for opportunities out.....we just want to make our case and hit 'em.

also....like nature is drawn to like nature...and we can gather that following...and become so huge, we actually fall for our own publicity...
like what I am seeing happening to Oprah....in Oprah land...off in Oprah universe.....spinning out.......bye bye.

DS replied to my Question in 427:
<<Black leaders are keeping their own people in bondage
by continuing to promote discrimination and racism through their actions and words.

-"To promote discrimination and racism....."
How is it again that Jesse, or Al (-not that i am a fan of either of them..........)
are promoting racism?  There have been times i could swear one or the other of those two were crying the sky is falling a bit.  That, i can understand as a vehicle for promoting their cause; but promoting racism?  I don't get it.
<<It's only people like Bill Cosby, Lynn Swann, or Clarence Thomas who are brave enough to tell them what they really need to hear.>>

While i have  some respect for Bill Crosby as a comic and actor,and for Mr. Swann's athletic ability, i have little respect for Clarence Thomas and his Uncle Tom method of diss'in his sister to gain respect within republican circles....
"Judge Clarence Thomas' intellectual journey on the path of self-help reports his oft-repeated quotation about his sister, then on welfare. "She gets mad when the mailman is late with her welfare check. That's how dependent she is." The rest of the quotation condemns her children: "What's worse is that now her kids feel entitled to the check, too. They have no motivation for doing better or getting out of that situation."
http://www.publiceye.org/body_politic/mag/back/art/0109pg07.htm

Leadership is not to be mistaken for self-serving self-promotion.

Susan 429:
-Thankyou.
<<But I also agree with DS in that it is common for negatively focused behavior to self-fullfill its own prophecy. >>
-There is some truth to this statement....
However these black leaders think with some good reason that we aren't there yet, and they base their opinion on the disparity between blacks and whites in areas like income.
<<Maybe at one time our country could have been considered racist, but not now! >>.....DS said in 417.
Perhaps she didn't read your wonderful statement previously:
<<We are all guilty of perpetuating past oppressions if we have benefited in any way from these. If you are white and you are more likely to get a job than a black person, you have benefited.
We don't want to look at that....how we have continued the oppression by not standing up against it....even though we didn't create it>>
-This is the reason black leaders are still working on this issue that is still there, no matter how we want it to "go away". 
Think of it this way.....
if you live in "the hood", how many job opportunities are there for a person?
So your poor, and don't have transportation, how exactly does one "get a job"?  Sometimes we see life as so simple("-just get a job"), when in reality if you have a sense of empathy, you'd realize that we as a nation are not quite there yet.

There are a LOT of jobs out there, but there are a LOT of people who just don't want to work....and that's a fact!  We're going full circle on the socialist argument again aren't we?  Instead of always providing the poor with fish, we should be teaching them to fish.  Jesse and Al will ALWAYS claim that we're not quite there.  They would be out of a job if they didn't.  That's the problem!  It's time to move on.....that recording is getting old and losing it's taste.  I really fear that all of the progress that has been made towards racial equality "could be" lost if the blacks don't begin to recognize it and do what they can to change this attitude.  BHO has a real opportunity to heal this nation racially.  I hope he doesn't do anything to reverse it.  It could get really ugly.

Dave and DS,
between us we have covered this in a rather thorough way, I do believe.
I just read the exchange from it's start...and it seems to me that we are seeing a slightly different angle on the same problem. I don't think it is an either/or situation.  I think it is all of the above.

I also think there is a social depression of the emotional variety at play.
If you think about the country as a family...in this case a dysfunctional one....(and whose family isn't?), then the blacks are those members who have been the abused, then alternately, the coddled, the scapegoat, the unattended, and those who are depressed.
I let my mind wander over that analogy a bit.....and found it useful.
Depression doesnt react well to "just get up and do something."

I just sent that above blog ...because I sometimes am unable to send it at all if it gets too long....

But I wanted to add about the effect of prejudice.....it is a relationship thing.
staying with the metaphor of dysfunctional family.....when I was younger and was given a certain role in my family,  that had some heavy ramifications. So I had to "fire" them for a bit....I had to absolutely turn away from the ones who had reinforced a role I had come to see as unfair.
It wasn't until I did that ....that they were thrown off balance by my taking away that spoke in our family wheel...and when I did, it forced them to deal with their problem.

long time ago...and since then ...retrospectively it was one of the healthiest things I ever did. It has turned out to be healthy for the whole lot of us....
The point I am trying to make is that we were all part of that dysfunction.

It just has to be....when someone in a family is doing badly...it has to be a reflection on the whole family....
That isn't to say that we all don't have free will here....and there are always exceptions.....there is always the kid who in spite of where he lives and who his parents were....all of it.....he is determined to do something,

And there is always the great family.....who for no apparent reason,....one of them just turns out looney.

And David, about Judge Clarence Thomas ....
granted....poor taste in talking about his sister like that...
but I can believe he had the thought.....I think those were his genuine thoughts just like I think it was Bill Cosby's actual perspective....
I don't know about the Uncle Tomming....really. What I do think is that Thomas wasn't such a hot brother.
But the reaction to Cosby for having dared to say something negative about his own people.....was astounding....
 
I went to a black church service a while back, and the preacher was just telling it like it was....about their community watch program and how their own "gang" boys were stealing from thier own neighbors....
and how did they expect to change their image if this is the kind of thing that happened even among their own...
    I felt like I had been let in on a secret....
I had never heard that kind of talk from blacks about blacks until then...but I suspect it is very common behind closed doors.

Very insightful Susan, thanks.  The only place where the analogy breaks down is the fact that your family has been made of the same players the whole time.  The racial discrimination in our national family has been healed from most perspectives.  And it's not like we can just back away from the situation until they see the light.  At any rate, I agree that we have covered this thoroughly enough now.  Let's just pray that BHO will not do anything to make it worse, and that God will continue to heal everyone's hearts.

DS 432 claims:
<<There are a LOT of jobs out there, but there are a LOT of people who just don't want to work....and that's a fact!>>
-There was a time my mind set was similar to DS's assertion in the 1st statement....and then there was an epiphany in my world view.  This change in thinking occurred when i drove through sections of Compton Ca.  There were no jobs in the hood.
-I liked Susan's analogy of the country to a dysfunctional family in 433 as a response to claims of Black Racism....
<<Depression doesn't react well to "just get up and do something.">>
-I voted enthusiastically for Barack for his intelligence as a change to the previous 8 years.....
<< BHO has a real opportunity to heal this nation racially.>>
-Yes DS, it could be a good opportunity for some healing.

So let's see what he does! 

Boy, me too. I would LOVE to be wrong about Obama...I would LOVE to be proved wrong. Wrong can be great. 
I haven't talked about this here for reasons of my own...people get wierd if you tell them some things, and I like to be myself if possible.
But I'm  Unite Methodist Minister in Greensboro, the senior pastor to a big church of all kinds of people. I am also a counselor ...so I hear bunches of stuff that people really feel ...not just what they want to appear that they feel.
And I'm on the Board for Northe Western Conference...which stretches above the top of the state to Charlotte, so I get to hear so many views from a wide variety of people....
and what I have heard from both sides.....those who voted for Obama....(ane yes...there are even those in my church...about 25% of the congregation....) and those who wanted McCain.....and what they all seem to have in common is ....o.k., now it's done....they have accepted it...but they all seem to share a concern...that he will be good for the country.
they all seem to really want that. I haven't heard from one person that she or he wanted him to fail.

Oh, and let me add...as long as I am spilling the beans....
I wasn't always a minister....I used to teach English Lit and High School and College.....and while I did that I was a singer songwriter under Paramount Records (Sweet Fortune Label)....and had a ball. I lived in New York for 28 years....Florida after that....and then finally in N.C.
People are very interesting to me. I love 'em...most of them. There are some exceptions....that aren't my cup of tea...but usually I can stand just about anyone for a short bit. Except when they seem really dangerous....then a flag goes up.
I have seen some flags here...that I have never seen before.
But what I am praying is that God, who can use everything to His purpose, will use this presidency to accomplish some very important things for us.

Susan-- wow!  you are amazing!  that is what came to mind when i read your post.  i hope obama is successful for our country's sake too!  i would love to say i'm wrong.  however, his actions are telling me otherwise.  by the way, i'm in Charlotte.  shhhhhh!  don't tell David!  he'll come after me for wanting traditional values back!  ha!  just kidding, David!

Charlotte?  My uncle lives in Matthews, he is a veteran of the Wehrmacht(The Nazis in WW2)....
Titus, you'd be amazed at how old fashioned i can be!  (i love bluegrass music)
After the Steelers game, i watched our new Prez....he's gonna have a tough row to hoe.  Makes me feel good y'all hoping&praying for the best. 
-I've said it before, but i was down after Reagan won, but i admit he was a true leader....not perfect, but perhaps what we needed at that point in our nation's history.  Maybe Barack can fill a similar role.....we can only hope!

Susan....
Going back through those posts, i was looking for that gospel commentary your suggested.......but it escapes me.
I read all i can, and a good deal of it is early christian history, especially that which pertain to the Ebionites. 
" He said to them:
But now if you have a purse , take it along; and the same goes for a knapsack.
And if you don't have a sword, sell your coat and buy one"
-The Gospel of LUKE Ch.22/36
-i still think he was a revolutionary

David--bluegrass music?  not me but i won't fault you for it.  ha!  well, my instincts are usually right when it comes to character and obama definitely is lacking in that area.  but hey, as long as he lied to the american people about his economic plan and keeps taxes low and spending at a minimum, i can't think too badly of the guy.  at least this country would have a shot of recovering from this mess!  however, i wouldn't invite him to supper. 

Thank you Titus...but you can believe me, I ain't that great.
But I am starting to feel in the course of things....like I am being moved along and helped....It's a lifelong job, this living thing.

David, the name of the commentary that I use the most is Strong's Exhaustive Concordance...very easy to use for the Greek and the Hebrew.
Exhaustive...yes....Exhausting....no.

Luke 22:36 is Jesus' metaphor...He liked to make them...see Matthew 23:24 and Mark 10:25.....but what He meant here is that the disciples needed to get ready for spiritual warfare.....get ready to live by the spirit and their own resources...not to depend on anyone else anymore but by Him.
and Christ most certainly was a revolutionary....that is why they killed him, He came to upset the whole deal
The Gospel is the most offensive faith of any...It is the only one that claims to be THE truth....The two swords that they find, Jesus says they are enough...but they are for the entire enterprise....., in other words, they aren't to be used at all.
Christ's teachings shook up the differnt institutions of the church, the family, the Jewish laws, he meddled in money, he brought a scandalous notion of equality among Jews and gentiles, greeks, women, foreigners, and sinners.....whores, tax collectors , you name it.

and he really made so much sense that people just hated this man.
It scares me how much is called for in order to really be a follower of his teachings....
I take itty bitty steps.

There is a tradition that several of his disciples that included Peter, the hot head, and Judas, who had both witnessed His power in healing and in rightous anger, believed that if He had been put into a certain position He would wield that power, and then they would have the Messiah they had prayed for...the one who was going to conquer their oppressors and usher in their kingdom....
there is that thought ...that Judas's intention was to force Christ to act as messiah the conqueror.
It really bummed Judas when it turned out he had been instrumental in killing this man.

David, there is one more thing,
REading the Bible is great, but it's very hard to understand unless we study it in the manner Christ intended, among others who believe, His body, and using His resources.
He said if you seek me all your heart and soul and mind you will really find me, and what he meant by that is if we don't want Him that much, to seek out what He is saying, then we don't want him that much.

But there are certain kinds of Bibles that unpack the readings for you right there...study Bibles...The one Duke Seminary required if we were only going to use one text is the New Revise Standard Version, Oxford annotated Bible....it's the closest to the Greek, and at the foot of each page it gives the basic meaning and the other parallel scriptures to check so that it makes sense....
But nothing is ever to be taken just out of context....it always has an occasion that it comes from, an audience it is meant for...etc...but you know that...keep seeking....

Susan 445&446....
I just read Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus", quite possible i am too!(smiley face emoticon winking).....
Getting to the unaltered words of Jesus is a kind of industry to some (The Jesus Seminar comes to mind), and while you are correct by saying Jesus used metaphor, yet it seems to me that Christian Apologists tend to down play the violent aspects of the melee that ensued when Jesus chased the vendors out of the Temple.  It seems like there was some mention of mob violence going on....
"In Search of Paul....." J.D. Crosson explains how Paul was compelled to downplay the revolutionary nature of "The Jesus Movement", which makes sense given the Roman's dim view of the more revolutionary of the Jewish factions.....
Anyway, i'd love to chat more in depth about all this.....if you could put @gmail.com on the end of my name as you see it underlined.
James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls- Robert Eisenman
This was a tough read, but i found a perspective on Jesus ("If you want to understand Jesus, you have to understand his brother James.....")
-He explains James as a Zadokite....

David, o.k., I am emailing you in a minute, but also it's cool to chat here, because I believe in community to discuss all important issues...we are made to refine each other ...but give me a minute...and we'll chat email-wise. Suze

Susan....
<<He said if you seek me all your heart and soul and mind you will really find me,.....>>
-i think that is certainly true.  I know it may sound strange coming from an atheist, yet isn't the ultimate definition of an atheist as one opposed to theism? 
Like Einstein i believe in something like "Spinoza's God".  And in a "Quantum Mechanics" sort of way, there is a force or interconnectedness that binds ALL things.  Jesus was certainly real.....my own belief is that he thought of himself as a messiah in a real Jewish kind of way.  The deification of Christ is an accretion added to the reality by later apostles(perhaps a generation removed from the beginning of the "Jesus Movement").
In reading Eisenman's book, i was introduced to to the prophets of Israel, particularly Isaiah.  He related James to this line of holy men, and i thought of the the 1st Christian community described in Acts(which contradicts the gospels and has James at the head of the church......):
"All the Believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need."
-Acts 2:44-45
-Like some kind of "Commie Commune", huh?
certainly unlike modern day churches......-The focus was on a community as a group for the purpose of living together.....The 1st "Kingdom of God"?
I certainly see more than simply personal salvation going on among that group.....

David,
sent  you an email that speaks to much of what you have said,
but just one thing here about the church that isn't supposed to be only about personal salvation...
you sure got that right....
communism I mentioned in the email....is a natural solution when the church has failed its task to live out the generous GRACE of sharing what we have been given ....as a response to that Grace.
 When people get disconnected from God's spirit...they are open to solutions that force equality instead of embracing it.
fine line but HUGE difference.

David,
You have obviously done a lot of reading and studying about Jesus and the early church.  Yet, you haven't seemed to actually see (or should I say accept) the truth yet.  That is absolutely amazing to me.  You are starting to remind me of the pharisees and the sadducees.  They knew the scriptures, yet missed their messiah.  Also, Timothy warned us in 2 Timothy 3:1-9  that there would be people like this in the last days.   I think he was actually talking about "those" last days which they were about to experience, but they still apply today don't they.  "Head knowledge" will only get you so far David.  Ultimately, you will have to have faith the size of a mustard seed to finally experience the greatness and fullness of God's kingdom.  It isn't very large is it?  Yet it's greater than most are able to muster.  What a paradox huh?

Susan,
I somewhat agree with your synopsis of the church and communism, but not totally.  I agree that the church hasn't fulfilled its' mission entirely, but I don't agree that that is the reason that communism exists.  I think that communism exists BECAUSE people want an alternative to believing in God and practicing faith.  The church still does a lot of good in society.  We share a lot of our resources with those less fortunate, and would do even more if government would get out of the way, and allow us to do more.

I decided to post 2 Timothy 3:1-9.  Is this applicable to today?

2Timothy 3:1-9
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Ds,
If i didn't make clear my thought about the church,  I just didn't have time...or I would have added some of what you said.

but I do think that if the church had done its job....(in my opinion it has become lukewarm generally with exceptions of course....so that people of God kind of blend in with non-believers....they have lost their salt...so to speak...) if they hadn't I don't think the non-believers (the ones dug in) would have been able to make their socialist offer so appealing, because it's not that socialism isn't "moral" ...in fact it is offered as the humanist solution to earthly problems....., it's that it isn't given freely, and that isn't GRACE. My point is that the church hasn't stood out in contrast to this socialistic alternative.

but I also have hope that the sleepy saints are going to wake up very soon, and then the difference will be very apparent to everyone...

David, I DO think these are the last days.
But Christ also told us we wouldn't know....any of us the exact time...but that we would discern it in the spirit the way we discern a storm in the air by our senses. And I do. Boy do I ever.
However. I ain't sellin' my Miada yet.
time is a relative thing with God.
 
very little joke here about that time thing, and forgive me if you have already heard it:
there was a man talking to God who said, "God I know that with you all things are so easy. You are so great that a century is a minute and A million dollars is a penny. So all I am asking here God from  you who can so anything at all is,,,,may I have a penny?"
"Sure," was God's reply.  "In a minute."

so I ain't sellin' my miada. 

Susan,
I understood what you were saying, and I agree that the church could be doing more.  And I agree that if it were doing more, it would have a larger impact on society.  But, I don't believe that we should "blame" the church for society's problems, nor do I believe that communism is a direct result of the failure of the church.  I also believe that communism is "immoral" because it isn't done freely.  Also, I don't think we can judge the entire church on what we see in America.  The church around the world is doing some pretty great things.  I also think that the American church is alive, and is making itself useful in many ways.  The church in Europe is probably the one that needs to be awakened as much as any of them.  
But I also strongly believe that the American church could and would do more if the government would get out of our way.  The government could help the church AND society if they funded the church's work rather than throw money into social programs that aren't working.  The church would be a much better way of disseminating social services to those in need, and would be able to address the underlying spiritual issues as well.....Teaching people to fish, rather than "just" providing fish.  The government is doing the contrary actually.  They are allowing the humanist movement to remove God from the public arena, which will in turn hurt society.  Personally, I believe that the poor and oppressed are seeking something much more than just food, clothing, and shelter.  I believe that they really want to know God, even though they don't know it consciously, and can't communicate it.  "IF" the church was "allowed" to run the governments social welfare programs, I believe that you would see something wonderful happen in our society.  People's lives would be improved, they would be physically healed, mentally healed, and spiritually healed.  Oh, what a difference!!   Instead of trying to find all of the ways to keep God out of the public arena, government should be trying to find ways of keeping Him in, and using His people to solve the problems in our society.  We would be a shining example to the rest of the world!!  Amen, Jesus.....let it be!!!
 

Please forgive me for what I'm about to do, but I feel like you (Susan and David) are capable of dealing with this without freaking out.  There are some on here who will probably want to debate me on this, but that is NOT my intention.  My intention is merely to offer up an alternative interpretation to "the last days" teachings. 

Hav you heard of the Preterists?  They're an organization who believes that Christ's Second Coming actually  took place during the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 A.D.  Here is a link to their site if you would like to check them out.  They use scripture to back up their understanding.

http://www.preterist.org/whoarewe.asp

I have not yet decided where I stand, but right now I am leaning towards the Preterist viewpoint as I read and interpret scripture.  Susan, I would be especially interested in your take on it. 

All of my Christian Friends!
-I love you all!  Its good to converse about these spiritual subjects with all of you guys.  Look at it this way.....(supposing there is a God),  He/she/it just had a mind to create a bit of uniqueness when i was created.  I am a contradiction in so many ways; a soldier who hates war, a follower of Jesus who doesn't believe in God.....
-There must be a reason, huh?
I know i'm suppose to say the words "i believe"....but i can't.  Yet this is how my mind works.  I was raised in a Christian family, had a wonderful pastor to instruct me....and i took spiritual matters seriously.  I went to church most Sundays.  I was Baptized, took catechism& Holy Communion ....yet as time went by, i found it difficult to say the Apostles or Nicene Creed.
No matter how many explanations Pastor Mauney gave me about The Trinity or The Virgin Birth, i just felt like a fake mouthing the creed.  Yet the ministry, the movement Jesus started fascinated me.  It was doctrine that i rejected, not the man who was Jesus.  I find much more fascination with the human aspect of Jesus rather than the Christlike attributes the Gospels relay to us.
And i have no problem wrapping my mind around this Judean peasant, who looked to Isaiah to guide his ministry to his fellow Judean peasants in the face of oppressive social injustice.
So i stopped saying things that just because of tradition, i felt compelled to say.  Yet my respect for this man ranks above all others. Just wanted y'all to know!
Any of y'all are welcome to discuss this in depth with me [email protected]

David,
I know how you are struggling.  We all have limited understanding when it comes to spiritual things.  Our little pea-brains just can't fathom everything that God has for us.  I know how knowledgable you are, and I probably couldn't quote nearly as much scripture as you can. 

I just had a funny thought.  My family watched the Wizard of Oz together two nights ago.  It is kind of a tradition for us.   Remember when Dorothy, Scarecrow, Tin-man, and Lion were standing before the Wizard, and he was giving them what they had asked for?  He kept saying to them, "there are those who have this or that, but one thing they don't have is"....so on and so forth.  David, you have knowledge, and I truly believe the desire to know God, but the one thing you don't have is faith.

You "know it" logically, but you haven't "experienced it" spiritually.  I know that you know what scripture says about faith.   Hebrews 11:1 states "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."   Why don't you do a word study on the word faith?  I did a lookup on the word faith using the New International Version, and found that it was used 422 times in scripture.  I started reading some of those scriptures, and wow, what a big word!!   Check it out David....

P.S. - that's why I recommended the book "Evidence That Demands A Verdict".

DS....452
Yes, the Mustard seed is so insignificant when sown, yet it is more than a bit substantial upon maturity.  I suppose where we differ is upon the nature of "The kingdom of God".  I see it less of a place up in heaven, but more of a real society here on earth.  Though Jesus used parables as metaphors, i truly believe his Kingdom Ministry was about a real structure for society to replace the one that existed in 1st century Judea.
My understanding of his metaphor is that as society grows together as equal partners here on earth, the yield, or results will be phenomenal!  It would literally become the most advanced society man has yet witnessed upon the earth....
453
-Timothy could have just as easily been speaking of the corruption of the Roman Empire that controlled all facets of life in his time.
454(Speaking of Socialism......)
"All the Believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need."
-Acts 2:44-45
Yeah, i know(i posted it before).....this passage speaks to me though.  James, the brother of Jesus was the head of this congregation, the 1st Christian Church.  Was James building a "Kingdom" society such as i claim Jesus was preaching about years earlier in Galilee?
Susan, there may be a touch of salt in me after all!

DS 459.....
<<, and I probably couldn't quote nearly as much scripture as you can.>>
My rote memory isn't good, but i can remember the gist of a text i have previously consumed. 
You are right about the lack of faith part.  Yet i have a different perception of what the texts of the various Gospels and Epistles are conveying.  I reject the theology of orthodoxy.  There is a meaning in them that has been initially masked by the fears and calamity the Jewish revolt of 70 when Jerusalem was sacked by Titus.....it was DANGEROUS to be a christian at that time.
And Christianity was perceived as merely one of many sects of the hated Jews to the Romans.  The Kingdom Jesus spoke of here on earth became a Kingdom up in the sky....

David,
Your understanding lines up very closely with what Preterists teach.  And yes, I believe that Timothy was speaking of what was happening in those times.  That, too lines wup with preterist beliefs.  And they would also agree with you that the Kingdom of God has come, and that we are now living in it here on earth.  James probably was building the kingdom that Christ preached.  I believe that we are all involved in building that kingdom.  I don't think we differ that much on this point.  Where we differ is about who should be building it, we as christians, or the government?  I don't believe the government should be dictating socialism, but the church could be practicing it better....and could it be that they would if the government would only get out of the way?  Sounds kind of like the Republican platform huh?  Smaller government, pro-life, less taxation (I think Jesus would have been for all of these).

DS 462....
I've never heard of Preterists before, i read the link and agree with you a bit on this.
The events of 70 AD were cataclysmic.....most Christians have little or no understanding of this event and how it shaped the growth of Christianity from a jewish sect to a religion that was embraced by gentiles.
<<Where we differ is about who should be building it, we as christians, or the government?....
I don't believe the government should be dictating socialism, but the church could be practicing it better.>>
In Jesus' time, government & religion were difficult to separate.  The law&the temple were part of Jewish life, even in the flock James presided over as described in Acts...the Romans simply stood by and took their cut.
Which was the core issue for the mass of poor that made up maybe 90% of the population......everything was on their backs.....
Speaking of backs, i may have to visit the ER tonight, the pain in my back is so severe i am almost in tears.....
-Lets continue this thread!

David,
The law and the temple were different and separate from Roman law.  I agree that religion does contain political spects in it.  Hmmm, interesting huh?  Maybe it really is impossible to separte religion and politics as some people think we should.  Also interesting is the fact that taxation was one of the big problems back then.

Yes, 70 A.D. was the most dangerous time in history for christians.  That's why I'm starting to believe that preterists have something that needs to be cinsidered.  I was always troubled by scriptures where Jesus spoke to this disciples as if the "Kingdom was coming" in their lifetime.  Over and over again, He told them the time was soon!  He even said that some who were standding there would not die before they saw Him coming in glory!  Wow, they HAD to expect it at any time!  And to know that the New Testament was completed before 70 A.D. says something to me as well. 

I know this discussion will shake the faith of a lot of believers, and most won't even want to consider it.  I suspect it will also bore a lot of people on here, so I'll end this discussion on preterism here.  But if anyone is interested in looking into it more, see link in 457.

David, I pray that God will relieve the pain in your back tonight, and that will be a sign from Him that He exists, and loves you!!  In Jesus' name....

Hey there you Christian dudes,
About the preterist ideas...could be so. My scripture teacher Efird at Duke referred to Jerusalem's fall as the fulfilling of thar prohecy, and the reference to the fallen temple that Christ made that in three days He would raise it up, that He was the new Temple....His Spirit in believers.
And everywhere in the Gospel Christ's work is just revelation of the ushering in of His Kingdom at that moment...not later to be lived...but right now. John talks about that alot. Eternal life is now or never.
.....but this is  where I would like to add...we are still in the flesh and we can only live this real life through faith in Christ all the time....dependence on His power...because it isn't a rational thing...it requires us letting go, and we cannot be perfect....individually or as a group....we are still "broken" dependent on God's grace for what we are able to accomplish....and it is never we that accomplish anyway...it is God through us.
I believe we live in the kingdom right now but not yet fullfilled.
Escatological life is living all time in the moment now.....with even those saints that haven't been born yet but are all together.
All the believers.  
I don't think it is done yet. 
The people of God still aren't formed yet fully....we are getting there....
and there is too much evidence of that which is not the kingdom....