speak the word Urban...speak it!

From a true Cubano!
Mario

I work very close to a college campus in East Los Angeles and I cannot tell you how many Hispanics/Mexicans wear Che t-shirts. It is very annoying and a pet peeve of mine, so occasionally, I wear my, 'Che was a Commie Bastard' shirt! I love the stares!

Seriously, kids today are clueless!

I mistakenly let my 14 year old watch motorcycle diaries with me - she started wanting, liking, admiring che.
Despite all I told her she brought home a tshirt.
I shredded it in front of her and told her when she can prove me wrong - I'll buy her another.
She made the effort to find out ....
thank goodness.

Lew - your personal attack against me only shows your lack of knowledge about the topic at hand; and exemplifies the fact that liberals really can’t really debate a topic rationally without resorting to such ridiculous behavior.

So Lew, instead of telling me that my post is irrational and misleading, why don't you tell me why? C’mon, you can do it.

I am a liberal, but I find your views logical, so I'll comment.

I will admit I need to do more research on Che, so I will be reading that link, and Lew's blog.

You made some good points and comparisons, other than your discrepency with Time Magazine's diagnosis. I just don't think that was a powerful example of hypocracy. They claimed he was *influential*, which isn't a praise nor is it pejorative. Though I would describe him in a different way.

I have observed this outbreak of Che apparel as well.

Che Guevara-The Leftist Saint

Do you ever wonder when you see young men wearing t-shirts with Che Guevara's image on them, if they really know the true history of the revolutionary? Or do they just know that Guevara was a leader in the Cuban Revolution, and that will suffice to make him a hero? Few Communist revolutionaries have been as idealized as Ernesto "Che" Guevara. Wherever you see the far-left, you will find the image of Che, the bearded revolutionary with the beret. Guevara was by all accounts, a brave fighter. Yet many of his latter-day admirers may not be aware that not all of Guevara's victims fell in the heat of battle.

Guevara was actually not a Cuban, rather an Argentine by birth. He was born in 1928 in Argentina and studied medicine during his university years. He took time off from his studies to travel by motorcycle around South America, where he saw much of the poverty that existed on the continent. This, reportedly was his inspiration to become a revolutionary.

After finishing his medical studies, Che left Argentina, first to Guatemala, where he wanted to study the reform policies of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzman. In 1954, he went to Mexico, where he made the acquaintance of Fidel and Raul Castro. After becoming a quick convert to Fidel's cause, he joined forces with the Castros, and in 1956, left by boat to Cuba with approximately 80 other Cuban revolutionaries who were intent on overthrowing the brutal and corrupt dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista. Guevara's initial role was to serve as a medic. However, almost immediately after landing, they were attacked by government troops. Guevara later said that it was during this battle, that he picked up the rifle of a fallen comrade and took on the role as active fighter.

As stated above, Guevara was a brave and ruthless fighter, and took on a commander's role as Castro's army took refuge in the Sierra Maestra Mountains. One of his roles was to carry out executions of suspected informers, deserters and spies.

On January 1, 1959, after a series of reverses, Batista fled Cuba into exile, and Castro achieved the victory of his revolution. Guevara was awarded a series of posts by Castro in the Cuban government. The first was as commander of La Cabana Prison (January-June 1959). In this capacity, Guevara supervised the trials and executions of hundreds of prisoners associated with the Batista regime and Cuban Army. Under Guevara's supervision, trials were nothing more than a "kangaroo court". It is estimated by various sources that from 156-550 prisoners were executed in this manner. Later, he was put in charge of the National Bank of Cuba and the National Institute of Agrarian Reform. He also traveled extensively as Cuba's representative overseas. As part of Castro's program of supporting revolutions in Africa, Guevara traveled to the Congo with Cuban mercenaries in 1965.

In 1967, Guevara was in Bolivia attempting an insurgency in that country. He was captured by Bolivian forces and executed the following day.

So that, in a nutshell, is the life of the man who spawned an entire industry dedicated to glorifying his name and the cause that he served-namely, Communist revolution. Since his death, Guevara has been lionized by the left, by Hollywood, and by many radical professors in US universities, as well as thousands of foolish Europeans who have no clue about problems in the Americas. Never mind the fact that his cause-Communism- has been totally discredited as a political and economic system since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Never mind that he was responsible for at least hundreds of murders and sham executions carried out far from the battlefields. Never mind that weeks after the Cuban missile crisis, Guevara told the Communist British Daily Worker newspaper that, if Cuba had been in control of the missiles, they would have launched those missiles against US cities. Never mind the fact that thousands of Cubans have fled their homeland in rafts to live in freedom in America. Never mind the fact that today, in Cuba, thousands of European tourists flock to the island to enjoy sex with teenage and child prostitutes. (You didn't know that did you?)

There is a web site called "Che Lives". Check it out. It gives the typical glorified account of Che's "fight for justice". In the biography part, there is no mention of Guevara having executed deserters and suspected informers during the revolution. There is no mention of Guevara's running of kangaroo courts and executions of hundreds at La Cabana Prison. No mention of his comments to the British Daily Worker about launching missiles against US cities. If these people are so proud of Che Guevara, why not put it all in there? Why do they hide this part of Guevara's biography?

It is undeniable that during the Cold War, the US cozied up to many dictators throughout Latin America in order to resist Communist encroachment. The odious Fulgencio Batista was one of them. Yet, in recent decades, the US also exerted pressure on Latin American countries to establish true democracies-an effort which has borne fruit. Until a few years ago, Cuba was the only nation in Latin America that could not be called democratic. Now, with Chavez in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia, we see the slow erosion of those successes. However, as we watch Chavez in action-egged on by his ally Castro, it should be obvious that Communist dictatorship is not the answer.

The next time you see someone wearing Guevara's image, you might ask that person just how much he/she knows about the man on the t-shirt.

gary fouse
fousesquawk

To all conservatives out there I am a die hard democrat and here is one reason why.In 1981 Reagan passed the Emergency Recovery Tax Act that lowered taxes but increased spending, especially on the military. This basically created an enormous debt. nder the Reagan administration the debt grew from 930 billion in 1980 to 2.6 trillion dollars in 1988. This means the debt grew 300% in eight years after only growing about 150% from 1950 to 1979. In 1997 our national debt reached 5.4 trillion and only during the economic boom during the Clinton administration did it slow. In 1998 the debt was 5.5 trillion, in 1999 it was 5.6 trillion and was the same in 2000. Since the election of George Bush the debt has begun to rise again. In the four years the Bush has been in office, and again cutting taxes while increasing spending, the debt has risen from 5.8 trillion in 2001 to its current high of over 7 trillion dollars. (all figures available at http://www.publicdebt

Some few months ago one of the pundits on townhall.com posted a number of Che quotes. My favorite was -- and I paraphrase here -- I am Che, I am worth more to you alive than dead. The response was a mass outburst of gunfire. I wonder when some T shirt marketer on the right will put out a T with that picture of Che laying there dead. I'd wear that.

Che changed the world,so that the poor stood a chance of earning a living and no be dictated to by rich of this world

No problem fouse, I actually haven't been here since about a week after my last post.

By the way I agree with your assessment.

Hello friends,
I am a hospital study from Cuba. We don't have resources to be like USA we are a farming tropical country. Western style democracy suddenly bought into Cuba would be bad. Cuba is a young country, USA had civil war in it's teething
stage. I don't have money much but I guaranteed house, stability, low crime &

Why Is USA so worried about Cuba? We Cubans don't hate Americans. George Washington and Bush just sit behind a desk and ordered war. Che had the balls to go out and fight for what he believed in. I don't see any of your government out there in Iraq. You haven't been to Cuba if you do we give party!

Actually, now that I listen to Glen in the clip, some of the points made therein and listed on this page seem weak in relevance.

What I think are excellent point outs, are the contradictions lying between how people think Che might have been and how Che actually was.

Overall, Urban Conservative is right: Che was no hero.

Concerning the primary points of dissention:

Urban Conservative:

"How Che promoted book burning and signed death warrants for authors who disagreed with him." [In a nutshell this is asserting that Che committed disagreeable acts]

Regardles of whether I agree with them or not, how is this relevant to Che being named "one of the 100 most influential people"?

Uban Conservative says: Che killed alot of people.

There are rarely ever peaceful revolutions, infact, most revolutionaries have enemies even after becoming successful. Exceptions usually occur when all the people want the same thing, and the current ruler does not.

Urban Conservative:

"How Che made amazingly racist statements about blacks." - citation/s?

Che went to Central Africa and physically opposed colonial powers there. You have Nation of Islam membes who will cooperate with KKK.

Words don't always portray a person's true motives.

kamu memang goblok...tipikal orang Amerika Idiot yang tidak paham akan perubahan dunia...Che sejuta kali lebih baik dari kamu....

jadi Aku kagum terhadap pendirian Michael Moore yang berusaha memberikan pemahaman yang benar tentang demokrasi kepadamu dan George Bush...

can you saw...
9/11 fahrenheit,blowing for columbine or sicko....

it's amazing just how out of touch you are... really amazing.

this post of yours has been sitting out there since february indicating exactly how much credibility you have. if you had an ounce of intellect... if you had this superior power of "the think" and were "informed" as you claim, you would have the ability to seek out the truth. had you the ability for this, this post would have been removed explaining that it was, in fact, a lie.

sadly, it is more than obvious that you lack these skills, preferring to plop "out there" mindless rhetoric, lies, repitition of email rubbish that have been repeatedly proven false debunked for what they are= crap. , many of these are originating from hate groups. hate groups which you apparently endorse, since you continue to spread their lies, inuendo, and misrepresentations.

you have already stated to me that you endorse many of michael (alan-weiner-i-am-so-ridiculous-i-cannot-even-use-my-real-name) savage...an individual that has been ridiculed and distanced by all thoughtful conservatives of any note as well as kooks like bill o'reilly.

a few facts-( not that these could possibly alter your thinking, because you appear entirely closed minded - seeking only that information which lines with your own pre-formed or email-influenced thinking process.)

the poster of che on the wall behind an obama volunteer belongs to the volunteer- working in her own workplace...not in an official obama headquarters. it endorses nothing . it's a statement.
at her age i had a poster of him on my wall too...along with one of lenin, kennedy, garbo, chaplin, the beatles and albert einstein, among others. it's a statement, pure and simple. just as hanging the flag upside down is a statement.... just as protesting what you feel are unjust government policies is a statement...
you are in the bay area...why don't you wander over some of the bookstores and discover what the 60's movement was all about? why do you not wish to understand? are you so in fear of the fragility of your closely held (and extreme minority) viewpoints that you are afraid to hear the words of others -for fear of losing all that keeps you glued to your keyboard with negativity, suspicion, and deceipt?

this constant noise about patriotism and what "constitutes" this....according to you.

absolute nonsense and stupidy flows freely from those who tout the "i'm an american and you...not so much because I wear a flag pin...and you don't.

the wearing of a flag pin on your clothing (a majority of these are non-US made by the way),
the wearing this item had become the ultimate symbol of hypocracy demonstrated by this administration. those of us with the ability to actually think on our own found this hypocracy disgusting.

understand: the flag is a symbol...a symbol of what a handful of brave men wrote that would guide the laws of this land. documents that underscored our freedoms and our independence from the wills and whims of the british rule. documents that have stood for centuries as this nation's creed, it's promises, it's celebration of a free people.

this administration has demonstrated this love of country by thumbing their collective noses at the constitution- the seperate branches of government designed for the necessary check and balance required - it has seen corruption at the highest levels- while a rubber-stamp congress that turned a blind eye to signing statements, illegal wiretaps, justice department influence to alter elections and voter fraud, cronyism that brought in an inept cabinet, the outing of a covert agent (treason), and ignored/cherry picked information to create fear and an urgency to "go to war" when no such urgency ever existed. a man in the oval office who swore to uphold the constitution then set about in every manner possible to avoid doing this.
you call this patriotism?
perhaps you need to re-think just what patriotism is- it is our duty to question. it is our duty to provide oversight and checks and balances.
uc...you really need to get out of that little bubble of yours... look around you... that blur you see is the rest of the world passing you by.