Republicans surpass democrats on twitter

February 17th, 2009 Urban Conservative

Interesting story in the Washington Times about how Republicans are jumping on the technology bandwagon by joining in on the fun with twitter; and they are even beating out the democrats on Capitol Hill  Ha!  This is a moot story and I will tell you why.  Current Republicans in the Senate and Congress aren’t going to win us any future elections.  I will tell you what it is – it’s the thousands upon thousands of conservatives who are using twitter to converse, build relationships, and spread the conservative message; specifically the Top Conservatives on Twitter #tcot.

Granted, twitter only has about 14 million registered users but that number is growing exponentially month over month and I believe it will be mainstream in the next couple of years. Mark my words folks the conservative movement has just begun!

If you enjoyed this post, plese follow me on Twitter.


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  • davidwwalters
    UC....
    -To accompany this technology, dont they need some new ideas?
    <<… the conservative movement has just begun!>>
  • harrysmom
    Look Ma!  I started a new movement by copying the opposition.  


    Can we say pathetic?  Cmon- this is just a little pathetic, and it warms my heart because its almost cute.
  • ML Smith
    Twitter? This sounds like a major political shift that leads to a place known most commonly as NOWHERE. Really, who cares?
  • ML Smith
    If the conservative movement is counting on Twitter to get the message across, they are reaching...the people that are into Twitter are predomionantly conservative and I thought we wanted to turn as many liberals as possible.

    We know that this site attracts liberals like honey attracts Bears. That being the case, wouldnt it be better if conservatives put more energy into infiltrating liberal blog sites and converting those that come here to spread Aunt Libbys recipe.  Just an idea, but Aunt Libby needs to be popped real hard - I am thinking "pad cracking contact" that can be heard in as many forums as possible. It is time to stop being so accomodating to the left and begin our fight in earnest.

    I am a reformed libber and it was this site that turned me around. How can we turn others? Well, the first rule should be simple - to bring them in we have to make them feel uncomfortable and ill at ease with their thinking. This cannot be done by writing lengthy blogs bashing libs to death. It can be accomplished by pulling them in as if they were babies - which they are. It worked for me and I believe it can work for others.

    I wouldnt put too much energy into Twitter. It goes nowhere.
  • Dora
    You people still just dont get it...I exclude David and Harrysmom in this...
    ML- We dont fill " ill at ease" at all... in fact, every single time the neo cons and ultra right wingers start beating their chest - its difficult to keep from laughing.
    your ideas are a failure.
    your "tent" is too exclusive.
    your party reeks of a desire for religious legislation to support your particular point of view.
    your party reeks of white supremacy.
    your selfish "all about me" attitudes are disgusting.
  • Dora
    "feel ill at ease" ^
  • Guest
    lol, cmon people. You are all so mad! Lighten up. Twitter is ONE tool in the social media aresenal. Try looking at the big picture. Politics is about marketing, thats it.  Obama and his team are OFF THE CHARTS when it comes to crafting marketing messages and using tools to spread that message (twitter being one). I know, it may be tough for some of you liberals but keep trying...I am hear for you.
  • patti
    You got to work with the people.  Twitter on!
  • Dora
    LOL... "work with people"...like the party of no did this past week.
    Your people had already decided to vote no on the stimulus bill before it was even finished in committee ... yet they all could not wait to have their picture taken with Obama and to get his autograph.
  • davidwwalters
    ML Smith (4).....
    <<
    How can we turn others? Well, the first rule should be simple - to bring them in we have to make them feel uncomfortable and ill at ease with their thinking.
    >>
    Like i said.....ideas are a prerequisite.  I keep asking conservatives to come up with workable solutions to a problem that is largely the result of deregulation and massive tax cuts.....and the only answer is.....?
    -More deregulation and tax cuts.  So it IS more than just marketing (UC),
    There has to be real workable solutions.  It seems as if the minority party in congress is just itching for failure, so they can resubmit this tired approach that has landed America in the mess we find ourselves in today.
    No matter how you try to market that, the American electorate wont buy.
  • Dora
    You see its like this... you have a stew, initially.... and you boil it down and boil it down until the water is gone, the meat is dry, the potatoes are charred and brittle, and the onions caramelized beyond recognition.... this is what is left of the republican party... your base.
    You have nothing but the bitter wing of the far right as represented by your woefully uninformed Sarah Palin and the utterly ignorant Michelle Bachmann.  Lets not forget the Missouri senator who is on a state tour telling his people all about how he got all this stimulus money that will be working for them ... except that he leaves out the part that he voted AGAINST it.
    What a guy.
    Or how about the dillusional faux news peoples inventing things that are NOT EVEN IN  the stimulus bill then stomping up and down, mad as hell that this passed ...   ACORN money... high speed train from Disneyland to Vegas... and why is that... well Harry Reid of course...   Except that there is no Vegas train... and NO ACRON money... but,  hey.... why include facts when you have nothing but knuckle-draggers in your fold and they dont read. 
    Gosh, I wonder why the republican party is in such a shambles... hmmmm.
  • simonesdad2009
    From one of your own on this topic:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/...
  • Chuck
    Its fun reading comments by "tolerant" libtards like Dora. You are the poster child for the hateful left. keep up the good work, your dispensing the DNC talking points like a trooper.
  • harrysmom
    MLSmith- so you admit that we liberals are "turning" conservatives with our presence here?  Hot Damn!  My time is not wasted.  :)
  • davidwwalters
    Chuck(13).....
    << .......................Dora. You are the poster child for the hateful left. keep up the good work, your dispensing the DNC talking points.........>>
    -Like Dora, i am appalled by the downward direction this nation has taken under the reign of the Oh So Tolerant Right.........
    Perhaps our righteous indignation shows at times, perhaps because we do love our country, unlike so many neandercons, who value corporate profitability and republican control of political power over America.
  • Dora
    Chuckie,
    What "hateful" thing did I say?
    What non truth is there?
    Why are republicans being called the "party of no"?
    Show me diversity of thought, religion, or color in your tiny little leftover "party".
    I dont hate you or any other conservative. 
    The republicans cannot address their problems as a party until they realize that there is actually a problem.
    The fact that this country overwhelmingly declined your ideology should be testament enough.
    You call me a hater... why?
    By all rights, I should be- given what I have been through because of the likes of you.
    I am an atheist.  This bothers you.  You are under the dreadfully misinformed impression that because I am this, I have no moral compass.  
    I am gay.  This bothers you because of YOUR twisted thinking that all people should believe how and what you believe.  
    On my way home from college one day I was raped and left for dead by a knuckle dragger  like you. 
    I dont hate men.   I hate violence and ignorance.

    You,  Chuck, are an ignorant man.  This alone does not bother me other than the fact that you have the ability to correct this  and elect not to do so.  You seem to take pride in stupidity.    This is your choice.  I elect to find you irrelevant.
  • harrysmom
    Apparently, the Republican party is now the "hip hop" party.  Michael Steele says it will be "off the hook!"  Word.  


    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/n...
  • harrysmom
    And Dora- You go sister!  


    The problem is not that people simply disagree about rationally thought out decisions- its a difference in paradigm, and paradigms are not easily swayed- although Michael Steele seems to think they can be through "hip hop"  (snicker).
  • Dora
    Steele and his comments regarding attracting the "hip-hop" crowd- (his version of getting the youth voter and youth participation)-  we just enjoyed the heck out of his statements.  this man is to hip hop as fish are to bicycles. 
    In the sixities- there were what we called "9-5 hippies" - weekend shleppers all into being cool with "the scene" until it was time to go home to their suburban homes, button-down collars and wingtips at sundown.  Steele reminds me of them.   Big time wanna be.  Tokenism at its grandest.  The only nationally elected  African- American individual in their party. (After no less than FIVE ballots, mind you)  The next highest office held by an African-American in the republican party seems to be some railroad official in Texas.

    Americans are moving away  in droves from the politics and ideas of yesterday.  The party of no, aka The Great Obstructionist Party aka the GOP as it stands today... the "base" is seen as those who reject: intelligence  (all the better to pull the wool over your eyes, my dear)  education (unless they are granted special vouchers to allow them to opt to private schools where they have the ability to set the learning materials) ,preventative  health care,  and the need for the middle class .
  • Michael R.
    Dora,
    It must be sad to be you.  I have just sat back and watched your comments come in, one hateful tirade after another as I found the more you speak, the more convinced I am that your line of liberal thinking is based either in your lack of education or your overabundance of indoctrination.  It is the same tired old talking points over and over which I cant help believe that you know that no one here is being persuaded by your grade school insults and antipathy towards anyone who dares not be a ultra-leftwinger like yourself.  So once again, I am sad for you and I hope you eventually find some sort of peace in your life that allows you to escape your bigotry and hate.

    P.S.
    I know that you are going to say "show me where I have been hateful" and instead of my spending my time copying and pasting your dribble, reread your own post.  Lets try and be adults.
  • Dora
    Michael,  Its not sad to me be- being an uneducated as I am. 
    (Masters in Art History, Masters in Philosophy) so, since I am so utterly inept and uneducated or over educated with (apparently) the wrong information and wherewithal - you could do us both a favor and point directly where this "hate" is located.  Find the phrase, find what it is that sends you towards this conclusion.  
    These "talking points" that you mention... which are these exactly... are there people out there reading my mind... ?  Or could it be that I actually have reached the same conclusions as others based upon the exact same (and readily available) set of facts.
    I am quite honestly befuddled at your accusations.
    The "hateful left"   - what is this?
    Is this akin to the "gay agenda"?
    (you know, that thing that you and the dear state sen. from Utah (among others) call "Americas greatest threat" = homosexuals?
    Are you still sour that you lost?  Gosh, I hate to ruin your evening, but you did. 
    The hateful left ... who are these people... name a few hundred... that should be pretty easy for you since we are a massive group according to you. 

    I would submit to you, sir- that if anyone is filled with disgust, revenge, bitterness, and yes, hate... that would be you.... and to be quite frank,  Michael- it does not become you.   The republican  party used to be a party up to the task of gathering up accurate information for an honest debate.  It has become a sour,  ineffective group of grumpy old men out of touch with the realities of today, a party where only fundamentalist Christians need apply, and  a party of chicken hawks who find every excuse not to serve but point fingers at someone for not wearing a damn imported flag pin. 
    Give me a break.
    You, Michael, need to get out more.   Go serve on line in a soup kitchen.   Take a walk into an unemployment office.  Find out just why they are not working.     Talk with a woman to understand the frustration of getting paid less for doing the exact same work as her male counterpart.
    Michael, there are some very real problems that need addressing in this country.  You can stand there and turn your head from them and pretend that they dont exist- or you can put your act on the road and get ready to pitch in.
    The truth is, Michael, it appears to me that  you are much more able and willing to point fingers and scoff at those less fortunate than you are willing to work with anyone who does not suit your particular political leanings.
  • Dora
    Neither Michael nor Chuck can point to a "hate filled" comment.
    All show and no go.
    Typical male.

    Mockery?  Yes indeed.  I have mocked you.  Not out of hate- but because you deserve it.  Your statements are ridiculous and non-factual.
  • JackieM
    Lets see--stock market falls dramatically on the day obama signs the stimulus and the markets havent recovered.  hmmmmmm!  enough said!  i guess now that he is the savior of the US (not) we dont need people to invest in our country or confidence in our businesses.  interesting thought but he is not going to fix this economy with his policies.  proof is in the pudding unfortunately.  most folks who have actual business experience in the way the economy actually works (not from books) understand this.  that is why some of obamas own cabinet members disagree with the substance (lack of) in his (pelosis) bill and his policies.  experienced investors understand how his policies will affect this country and apparently arent happy with them.
  • Dora
    Once again, Jackie, your narrow focus allows you only a microscopic view.  This is fixable- but you will have to open your eyes wider.

    Wall Street has been sinking lower and lower as investors come to terms with the fact that the optimism that fed a late-2008 rally was clearly unfounded. Companies’ forecasts for this year, which accompanied a dismal series of fourth-quarter earnings reports, pounded home the fact that no one can figure out when the recession will end.
    “It was a market that was built on that hope and what we’re seeing now is an unwinding of that,” said Todd Salamone, director of trading and vice president of research at Schaeffer’s Investment Research in Cincinnati, of the rally from late November to early January.
    The disappointment seen this week grew out of the market’s growing recognition that the multibillion dollar stimulus package and bailout program put together by the Obama administration are not likely to turn the economy around for some time.
    Stop trying to pin the current problems this country (and the world) faces on a man who has been on the job for a month.  Go buy a sofa or something.
  • davidwwalters
    <<Mockery?  Yes indeed.  I have mocked you.  Not out of hate- but because you deserve it.  Your statements are ridiculous and non-factual.>> -Dora(22)-thank you, and keep it up!
    One of the reasons i enjoy engaging my conservative friends is to shine some light on the ideas they hold so dear, that are in many cases...........wrong!
    The tough-guy, manly man image of the "real American" is as Dora says
    "........a party of chicken hawks who find every excuse not to serve but point fingers at someone for not wearing a damn imported flag pin."
    Dick Cheney and George Bush Jr. love to talk the talk, yet when it was their turn to actually serve, they were off, somewhere else other than VIETNAM.  Pussy/wimpy libs are laughed at as un-American........blame America first types who wont allow "real" men like Cheney to implement their agenda,   (which calls for our sons and daughters to die so his buddies can get yet another contract to build shoddy barracks in
    Baghdad )......
    yeah, it pisss me off that these ass-wipes are still not in jail where they belong.
    So many conservative ideas are based upon so-called "common knowledge" or "common sense"....... and are neither. 
    <<.....experienced investors understand how his policies will affect this country and apparently arent happy with them.>> -JackieM (23)
    So why didnt these "experienced investors" do something about the market before it tanked?  Jackie, it wasnt Obamas policies that caused the market to tank, it was the same "experienced investors" you hold in such high esteem that got our nation(and the entire planet for that matter) into so much trouble.  They freely trade these silly investment packages.  What Wall Street wants is a free ride, and that Obama didnt give them what they wanted, they sit on their cash.  So what!
    -Are we beholden as a nation to what Wall Street wants?
  • JackieM
    Dora--give me a break.  my education and actual years and years of WORK EXPERIENCE is in the markets.  i understand what is going on completely.  your hated shows in your judgment of others.  that is YOUR problem.  obama had the opportunity to make a big impact on our economy NOW and chose not to do it.  investors expected more from this idiot.  republicans have the right ideas and know how to make immediate changes to get us on the road to recovery NOW.  thank goodness republicans in the whitehouse have decided to follow our principals for a change.  pelosis plan is a joke and investors understand this.  the plan needs to starting helping the economy NOW and extend into the future.  obama failed to deliver.  investors were extremely disappointed in his plan, and that was reflected in the markets on the exact day he signed the bill.  all negative rhetoric from our "leader" (term is used loosely) does not help the markets either.  even your buddy clinton was smart enough to figure that one out and his comments are in the news!  investors did not consider this bill effective so the market fell.  a lot of experts (economists) understand that his/pelosis bill is ineffective; however, obama refuses to listen so we have what we have!
  • JackieM
    David--all of these investors im speaking of are not the folks that caused the meltdown.  there are others you know.  we need people to invest in our economy; that is what!  if we dont have investment, our economy continues to tank.  so yes, David, investors DO MATTER and are important.  there are so many pieces of the puzzle to this economy that you guys are forgetting about.  for example, obama could work on getting rid of or revising NAFTA as part of this "stimulus" plan.  of course, the list could go on and on such as mark to market accounting, etc., but who is counting.
  • davidwwalters
    JackieM(26).....
    <<
    investors expected more from this idiot.
    >>
    -Again, who is the idiot?
    << David--all of these investors im speaking of are not the folks that caused the meltdown.  there are others you know. >>
    If we believe that the Wall Street and Banking investors have the correct answers to our present economic woes, wed be the idiots because it was these very people who have ruined the economy.  It wasnt Obama, and not the guy who refinanced his home that have led to the downward spiral of Wall Street and the failure of so many banks.  If the Wall Street investors are so smart, why did they continue to purchase these stupid financial instruments (....now known as toxic assets)?  Obviously they arent as smart as theyd like us to believe.
    Hell yeah we need people to invest in our economy.  But it seems to me there are Large numbers of investors who need to find another line of work.  Perhaps a period of time on a prison work crew would be an appropriate job for many of them.  There will be more guys/girls to replace them on the NYSE or wherever......They are a dime a dozen.
  • davidwwalters
    And lets not get HATRED confused with righteous indignation......the message of some of us comes across as a bit harsh, yet ive seen judgmental ism coming from the right on more than one occasion.  It sounds to me as if the lack of real ideas from some leads them to attack the messenger instead of arguing the message.
  • Michael R.
    "Neither Michael nor Chuck can point to a "hate filled" comment.
    All show and no go.
    Typical male."

    And you are a typical bigot with an antipathy towards anyone not like you.
    "Tokenism at its grandest."
    "your party reeks of white supremacy"
    "only fundamentalist Christians need apply"

    and this is simply your own projections on just this thread (I gave you other examples on other threads).  You seem to have a problem with the opposite sex, you have a problem with race, you have a problem with religion.  You project all of your own problems on the party that you find yourself opposed to.  Your own ignorance lends to hate. your hate lends to anger, your anger lends to seeking out others to lash out at on Conservative Blogs....notice a problem?  I will go ahead and venture a guess, no, but trust me, this is a deep issue that at some point you may want to address with, not bloggers, but with counseling.

    "Michael,  Its not sad to me be- being an uneducated as I am.
    (Masters in Art History, Masters in Philosophy)
    "

    Well it is still sad to me as I have an undergrad in both Finance and International Business and have my MBA.  When I want to know what color to paint my foyer and the deep meaning behind it, I will trust your expertise-- but in matters of what is going on in our country today, financially, morally or ethically, I trust my own judgment. 

    We can debate all day long, and on some matters you and I may agree, you may even convince me to change some of my Conservative, Christian, White Male ways but let us be civil.  Do you think that is possible?
  • Dora
    "Tokenism at its grandest."
    "your party reeks of white supremacy"
    "only fundamentalist Christians need apply"

    michael.. these are not hate comments. 
    these are the impressions of your party as it is currently reflected. 
    you dont like it? then change it.
    steele isnt going to gather in young people by acting hip because your core message is THE SAME.  you can put lipstick on a pig... but its still a pig.   thats what you dont get. 

    its not about hate.  almost without exception here, you and your ultra right wing buds have critiqued anything negative said against your party, its "leaders", proposed legislation, or its core principles,  your immediate response is that the liberal left are a bunch of haters.
    you claim to be an educated man yet your verbiage shows this as questionable and your reasoning unsound.

    until you and others understand that we are
    not a "christian nation",  until you and others in your party understand the reason for the need for the separation of church and state, you will continue to firmly butt heads with those that comprehend this. 
    until you and your party understand why you lost OVERWHELMINGLY this past election- not just the white house, but house and senate seats, governorships, state legislatures,  and so on... until you understand WHY your party lost you will continue to flounder and flop on the deck like a fish.   obama was not a fluke in this election.  the message of "change" resonated with this country across the board.
    you can look to the dreadful "leadership" by bush, or the utter failure to understand foreign policy by him or his "advisers",  an unjust and illegal "war" that has broken the back of our military,  cost us untold amounts of $$$,  and caused the death of thousands of americans needlessly... not to mention the deaths of hundreds of thousands of iraqi citizens- some estimates go as high as a MILLION.
    torture ... this was encouraged by this administration.
    rendition, jailed for YEARS without charges or a trial of any sort.  illegal wiretapping, politicising the justice department, refusal to cooperate with congress and failure/refusal to appear when a supoena was presented.

    this is not about hate, michael.  open your eyes.  the facts are the facts. 

    you want to wear the same clothing as yesterday and present yourself as fresh.  it just does not work that way, michael.
  • Michael R.
    Dora,
    You fulfill every cliche of the extreme left. 

    "rendition, jailed for YEARS without charges or a trial of any sort."

    NPR
    Morning Edition, February 10, 2009 · In the first major national security case of the Obama administration, lawyers representing the government took the exact same position as the Bush administration. Government attorneys asked a judge to throw out a torture case, citing the need to preserve state secrets. Some human rights activists now say they feel betrayed by an administration that had promised greater openness and transparency.

    "illegal wiretapping,"
    many werent sure how the Obama administration would deal with it. Well, now we know. Theyve put forth a filing in the case effectively agreeing with the Bush administration that the case should not move forward. There may be political reasons for doing so, but its unfortunate that it looks like the new administration is playing the same game as the last administration when it comes to burying the details on the almost certainly illegal warrantless wiretapping program.

    "politicising the justice department,"
    AP
    While a private attorney, Ogden argued on behalf of Playboy and librarians fighting congressionally mandated Internet filtering software. His clients also include corporate giants such as an oil company and the pharmaceutical industry.
    Tom Minnery, a vice president at Focus on the Family, charges that through the nominations, the new Democratic administration is not depoliticizing, but re-politicizing the Justice Department.  "They take our breath away the more we learn about these people," said Minnery. "This is left-wing politicization of the Justice Department. This is not a Justice Department that looks like America."

    refusal to cooperate with congress and failure/refusal to appear when a supoena was presented.
    A federal judge has ordered the Treasury Department to give the Fox Business Network records about how the agency spent billions in bailout money.
    Fox filed the requests more than three months ago, with a request for expedited processing. It filed suit on Dec. 18, saying that the department had not responded other than to confirm that it received the requests.  The Treasury Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    "you can look to the dreadful "leadership" by bush, or the utter failure to understand foreign policy by him or his "advisers"
    "
    Stratfor
    Policy Continuity: Iran and Russia
    United States is prepared to speak directly to Iran provided that the Iranians do two things. First, Tehran must end its nuclear weapons program. Second, Tehran must stop supporting terrorists, by which Biden meant Hamas and Hezbollah. Once the Iranians do that, the Americans will talk to them. The Bush administration was equally prepared to talk to Iran given those preconditions.
    Russia
    Biden said, “It will remain our view that sovereign states have the right to make their own decisions and choose their own alliances.” In translation, this means the United States has the right to enter any relationship it wants with independent states, and that independent states have the right to enter any relationship they want. In other words, the Bush administration’s commitment to the principle of NATO expansion has not changed.

    But Biden offered no new initiatives beyond expressing a willingness to talk, without indicating any policy shifts regarding the things that have blocked talks. Willingness to talk with the Iranians, the Russians, the Europeans and others shifts the atmospherics — allowing the listener to think things have changed — but does not address the question of what is to be discussed and what is to be offered and accepted.
    Willingness to talk is important, but what is said is much more important. Obama’s first foray into foreign policy via Biden indicates that, generally speaking, he understands the constraints and pressures that drive American foreign policy, and he understands the limits of presidential power. Atmospherics aside, Biden’s positions — as opposed to his rhetoric — were strikingly similar to Cheney’s foreign policy positions.

    Change you can believe in Dora?  Real Change, the change that "resonates" with people?  I have no doubt that you will not read any of what I wrote and dismiss it as some right wing conspiracy talk but these are indeed the facts.  I do not think that you are in the position to tell me what works and what doesnt Dora, you simply do not have the information and obviously not the ability to understand what is really happening here.

    As for your comments, they are sexist "you can put lipstick on a pig... but its still a pig", racist "Tokenism at its grandest" bigoted "only fundamentalist Christians need apply" and small minded "your party reeks of white supremacy"

    I suggest that you continue to try and educate yourself on the facts vs indoctrinate with the rhetoric.  I know many Democrats, but fortunately they are not all as extreme liberal as you.
  • Michael R.
    And it continues...

    torture ... this was encouraged by this administration.

    <!--startclickprintexclude-->
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    WASHINGTON (CNN) <!-- PURGE: /2009/WORLD/asiapcf/02/20/gitmo.report/art.holder.afp.gi.jpg --><!-- KEEP --> -- A new Defense Department report concludes that the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, treats detainees humanely, according to a department official with knowledge of the report.Attorney General Eric Holder, shown earlier this week, has formed a detainee review task force.The Defense Department review also recommends that high-value and violent detainees be allowed to pray and have recreation time in groups of three, the official said. The conclusions come in a Pentagon report prepared for President Obama;
    "broken the back of our military,  cost us untold amounts of $$$,  and caused the death of thousands of americans needlessly... not to mention the deaths of hundreds of thousands of iraqi citizens"
    ABC News
    Barack Obama called not only for a withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, but a redeployment of troops into Afghanistan and even Pakistan — with or without the permission of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf.
    Stratfor
    Pakistan: Fallout From a Report of U.S. Attacks
    Satellite pictures show a United States Predator Drone Base in Pakistan.

    Yahoo News: President Hamid Karzai condemned a U.S. operation he said killed 16 Afghan civilians, while hundreds of villagers denounced the American military during an angry demonstration Sunday.
    Karzai said the killing of innocent Afghans during U.S. military operations "is strengthening the terrorists."
    The Independent
    Suspected US missle strike kills 20 in Pakistan
    ----------------------------------------------------
    We can play this game all day long Dora.  Will you condemn President Obama for anything I mentioned above?  Will you call for a timeline for withdraw from Afghanistan or at least an Exit Strategy?  Will you denounce any of the continuity in policy of the Obama administration?
     
    Or shall I continue....

     

  • Dora
    michael,  you ran over to copy material from a source whose author and founder is admittedly a "conservative republican.  hardly a non-biased objective site...merely his analysis.
    we will have to agree to disagree.  you believe that the end justifies the means.  i do not.
  • Chuck
    Dora, I take back the "hateful" comment. Turns out what you are is an idiot. Where you got all of what you said is your issue, not mine.
  • Michael
    "you ran over to copy material from a source whose author and founder is admittedly a "conservative republican.  hardly a non-biased objective site"

    Interesting that you believe that CNN, ABC, Stratfor, AP, and NPR are all conservative republican sources.

    Would you like to give me a non-biased media source that we can all agree on then?
  • Michael
    Let me repeat my question since you can not dispute the facts. 

    Will you condemn President Obama for anything I mentioned above?  Will you call for a timeline for withdraw from Afghanistan or at least an Exit Strategy?  Will you denounce any of the continuity in policy of the Obama administration?
  • JackieM
    David:  who is disputing that a lot of wallstreet guys should be in prison?  im certainly not.  i also think a lot of homeowners who chose to live beyond their means and didnt put any money (or very little of it) down on their houses should be blamed here too.  i blame the banks and wallstreet but also know that a lot of Americans "act" dumb when it is convenient and choose not to take responsbility for their own actions.  when you sign a legal document, it is your responsibility to know what you are signing.  everyone has the opportunity to hire their own attorney to interpret if necessary.  if they cant afford it, they cant afford a home.  duh!  obamas words and policies affect the markets.  so far he has been a failure on the simple things that he could do to ensure people started to investing in our country again.  we need a leader and we dont have one!  On one liberal channel today, CNN, they were talking about how salaries will ultimately decrease as a result of obamas "stimulus" bill.  who cant figure that out?  the obama/pelosi bill will do more harm than good and the future generations will pay a heavy price for obamas stupidity (wrong choices).  but hey, according to the left he is a savior so i guess that accounts for something.
  • JackieM
    Michael:

    Her comment:  "Michael,  Its not sad to me be- being an uneducated as I am. (Masters in Art History, Masters in Philosophy)"
    Your comment:  "Well it is still sad to me as I have an undergrad in both Finance and International Business and have my MBA.  When I want to know what color to paint my foyer and the deep meaning behind it, I will trust your expertise-- but in matters of what is going on in our country today, financially, morally or ethically, I trust my own judgment."

    I am laughing so hard I am about to explode.  i cant hardly type!  you are absolutely correct.  by the way, you and I have about the same educational background.  i guess we are not as qualified in business/economics and finance and the real world as those who understand art history and philosophy.  oh, there is also another one that i see a lot--sociology (because they can do research on things).  hmmm!  i guess to be "educated" we also needed to have gotten a degree in basket weaving?  too funny! 

    i think ill also stick to my understanding of what is happening in this country, my ethics, values and understanding of economics to figure out that thanks to obama/pelosi and all of the left-winged nuts, their actions are going to destroy this country.
  • davidwwalters
    "your ideas are a failure.
    your "tent" is too exclusive.
    your party reeks of a desire for religious legislation to support your particular point of view.
    your party reeks of white supremacy.
    your selfish "all about me" attitudes are disgusting."-Dora (5)
    Thanx Dora, nice observation......on the mark and pissin some folks off!
    -For those of you with the short memories, it IS conservative/republican ideas and rule that has put our once great nation in dire straights.
    << so far he has been a failure on the simple things that he could do to ensure people started to investing in our country again. >>
    -And
    are so eager to blame a man who has inherited a MEGA MESS from his predecessor,and has been on the job for a month....
    It will take years to fix the economy.  For years now, Wall Street has been calling the shots.  The "market" has had the ear of the lawmakers (....and "the decider in chief....)with respect to de-regulation, tax breaks and the like....
    Regardless of the fact that some have "degrees"&"education", you still cant see....its as if you are wearing blinders.  Rick Santelli& all his buds are so quick to brand the uninitiated as "losers", when in fact neither he nor any of his educated, degree holding buddies said or more importantly did anything to mitigate the problem, except trade more securitized financial instruments (toxic assets now).....
  • Dora
    George W. Bush= Bachelor of Arts from Yale and the Master of Business Administration from Harvard .  nuff said.
    He attempted to enter the University of Texas Law School but was not accepted.   ...again... nuff said.

    The smoke and mirrors,  sleight of hand practices of wall street are well documented- as are the bundling and selling of bad assets by the banks and mortgage brokers.  Its been a legalized pyramid scheme for a very long time- a very long time.  Only now are we seeing the tip of this monster of an iceberg.  Through no fault of ours,  these practices by "business and economics wizards"  have led to the financial crash of the world economic system.
  • Michael
    "nuff said" indeed Dora.  Your institute of higher learning has indeed done a fine job crafting a liberal sponge that soaks up any and all of the same old extremeism rhetoric of the left.  My hats off to you, standing tall in oppostion of logic, reason, fact and sanity; not many people could resist the temptation of truth as long as you Dora.  Keep up the fight! 

    Any response as to whether you are ready to criticize the Obama Admin for their continuity in Bush Admin Policy as it relates to Rendition, Foriegn Policy, TARP, wiretapping, etc...
    as highlited above by the right wing media, ABC, CNN, Stratfor and NPR.
  • JackieM
    so it is left up to our government to ensure the correct policies (not over regulation) are in place while keeping the free market economy alive.  as im quick to point out, the republicans were not doing their jobs and abiding by the principals of the party but seem to be doing a little better at it now.  however, now the democrats are enjoying themselves [email protected]#[email protected]%!#$%^ing up this country.  they succeeded in including a lot of the pork projects that were on the shelve in the "stimulus" package, and schumer admitted that there was pork in the bill while obama denied it.  so if you dispute there is pork and that this stimulus package has waste in it, go talk to schumer, who is in your own party, sit down with a good economist and figure it out.  a person with a basket weaving degree can see this!   ha!  economists in obamas own cabinet have said this plan will not work.  so at this point the people on wallstreet are not making these poor decisions.  it is obamas own people who are saying he is wrong!  ....whatever degree GB has is great.  he made a lot of good decisions along with some bad ones.  we had a great economy for a long while.  im just glad he protected this country, and my family and friends are safe because of his actions.  im also sure a lot of people in Africa are happy they are still alive because of him too.  i also understand what his job was and the limitations he had.  i often wonder if pelosi, reid, frank and dodd only have honorary degrees or if they are just crooks!  hmmm!  i could take a guess at the answer and probably be right.  unfortunately, obama and his cronies are playing the same ole, same ole politics and have lied to the American public time and time again.  now keep in mind he hasnt been in office but a month.  at least he could  have waited a year or so to screw up.  ive never seen so many scandals this early on in any presidency.  of course, coming from the chicago corrupt political machine, what should we expect.
  • Michael
    "schumer admitted that there was pork in the bill while obama denied it. "
    just like Chris Dodd said we may nationalize the banks at the same time the White House denied it.
    just like investigators said Burris had contact with Blago at the same time Burris denied it.
    Just like we had problems at Fannie and Freddie at the same time Frank and Waters denied it.
    Just like Countrywide gave favorable mortgage to the Senate Banking Committee Chair while Chris Dodd denied it.

    it goes on and on and on.  I will hop in their and criticize Bush over some of his liberal policies as well from farm subsidies to the billions of dollars that went to Africa if that makes some of the liberals feel better but lets face it, the government, not just a specific administration, is the problem here.
  • JackieM
    Michael--i agree the government as a whole is at fault.  Bush did have liberal views on a lot of areas that completely make me sick.  since Bush did have these left views on some issues and liberals hate him so much, you would think they would learn from his mistakes.  ha!  not a chance i guess!
  • Michael
    Not a chance at all.  This is where I think we as a party went wrong, we allowed liberal influence (compassionate conservatism) dictate a new party direction that has led us to the age of the RINOs and all of this began with the elder Bush .  I feel vindicated in the belief that true conservatism is alive and well when I see everyday people like Joe the Plumber or even Sarah Palin get so much support while McCain couldnt turn out any conservatives at all. 

    I am not afraid to criticize my party when it needs to be criticized.  Dora, or any other extreme liberal would never do that and look at where their party has been dragged--far, far left.  I am a Conservative first and will vote for a Conservative candidate, not just a Republican.  It appears that the party is now understanding that in the wake of the bi-partisan conservative (not republican) opposition to the fleecing of America.  Conservatism is re-energized now and we need to strengthen it.

    Dora,
    before you even reply with bigoted rhetoric, please respond to my ongoing question;
    Any response as to whether you are ready to criticize the Obama Admin for their continuity in Bush Admin Policy as it relates to Rendition, Foriegn Policy, TARP, wiretapping, etc... as highlited above by the right wing media, ABC, CNN, Stratfor and NPR.
  • JackieM
    Michael--you are right.  if we dont criticize our own party and try to make a difference, we would be no better than the liberals.  thank goodness there are still a lot of us out there who are looking at government for what it is and not through the clouds as if it is some dream with a savior in it.  i am waiting for obama to ride through the streets on a white horse.  wonder if that is next?  i dont think he ever had anything resembling a halo!
  • davidwwalters
    Michael (46)
    <<
    Dora,
    before you even reply with bigoted rhetoric, please respond to my ongoing question;
    Any response as to whether you are ready to criticize the Obama Admin for their continuity in Bush Admin Policy as it relates to Rendition, Foriegn Policy, TARP, wiretapping, etc... as highlited above by the right wing media, ABC, CNN, Stratfor and NPR.>>
    -
    Hes only had a month.......i would criticize him if he were to make a decision without scrutinizing all the facts.  Get back with me in 6 months or so. 
    <<
    I am not afraid to criticize my party when it needs to be criticized.>>
    -hes trying to hard to reach out to obstinate conservatives.....thats my critique.
    <<I feel vindicated in the belief that true conservatism is alive and well when I see everyday people like Joe the Plumber or even Sarah Palin get so much support>>
    Joe the Plummer?  Seriously, that guy is a joke.  I had more respect for you.
  • Michael
    He only had a month and one of his first actions in office was to...
    In the first major national security case of the Obama administration, lawyers representing the government took the exact same position as the Bush administration. Government attorneys asked a judge to throw out a torture case, citing the need to preserve state secrets. Some human rights activists now say they feel betrayed by an administration that had promised greater openness and transparency.

    6 months from now David Obama may install a waterboard at the White House pool.
    The rest of the rhetoric does not deserve a response.
  • davidwwalters
    MICHAEL(49)
    Why would one put a water board in a pool?   I dont think the torturers are really worried about spilling some water on the floor.
    <<Some human rights activists now say they feel betrayed by an administration that had promised greater openness and transparency.>>
    -
    Yes we do in fact feel betrayed if this becomes the policy of Obamas administration. 
    <<I am not afraid to criticize my party when it needs to be criticized.  Dora, or any other extreme liberal would never do that and look at where their party has been dragged--far, far left.>>
    http://www.theliberalcurmudgeon.com/2009/02/obama-lawyer-follows-bush.html
    Look at where our party has been dragged?  It may take some time to straighten out the mess YOUR party has done to our nation, both internationally and domestically.
    No! Liberals have no problem calling Obama or anyone else on war crimes, torture, or wrecking the economy.
  • Michael
    "Liberals have no problem calling Obama or anyone else on war crimes, torture, or wrecking the economy."


    Great, we agree then.  I dont know if the actions in Pakistan are to the level of war crimes or not but perhaps we should call for a Congressional Inquiry.  As for the Rendition continuation (and did you know Abu Ghraib is reopen?) I think a constant drum beat from sensible minded Democrats like yourself would go a long way in stopping the human rights abuses by the Obama Administration
    . I think at least bumper stickers that say endless war, support our troops bring them home, not Afghanistan, stop the torture, stop killing the innocent women and childeren, air raiding villages in the middle of the night....type stuff would probably be a good start. I am with you David!
  • davidwwalters
    << As for the Rendition continuation (and did you know Abu Ghraib is reopen?)>>
    -Michael(51)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/21/abu-gh...
    <<Mohammed al-Zeidi, the assistant director of the Iraqi Rehabilitation Department, insisted the new prison would be operated in accordance with international standards.>>

    -Sounds like it has re-opened under new management......Yes, i cited Huff Post, but lets cite the Washington Post:
    "Officials defend their decision to reopen the facility -- now called Baghdad Central Prison -- saying they need the space as the U.S. military hands over about 15,000 detainees in its custody to the Iraqis, under a security agreement that took effect Jan. 1."

    I answered your posts in this blog because you wanted "intelligent conversation" with a liberal, which is what i give you and in return you give me half truths which are misleading at best. 
    So it appears Abu Ghraib is NOT an American facility.  And i am all for congressional hearings on war crimes.  ANYONE engaged in such activities should be prosecuted.
    No, you are not with me Michael......you only want to use half-truths and distortions to make a point.  This is understandable given the sad state of the party you find yourself having to defend.
  • Dora
    Michael, Its very tiresome to watch you listen with your mouth instead of your ears.  Its rare that you manage a comment without damning me personally for something- or any other liberal  (eeeek!)  should one exercise their freedom to voice an opinion. 
    I am not going to agree with Obama on everything.   If you or Jackie paid any attention at all to what anyone other than your conservative blowhard  radio talking heads were saying- you would know that .

    Keep in mind,  YOU are the one who attached labels to Obama such as "messiah", "the chosen one" etc...   your bible thumper fanatics go so far as to call him "the anti-christ".   You and Jackie (or whatever name she is using this week) and other ultra right wingers here continue to act like spoiled children who did not get their way.   Grow up.

    I am constantly being called a "hater" for telling you why I believe your methods and ideology are offensive to me.   I am not the one trying to place laws  that support only MY personal religious beliefs.
    I am not the one claiming that we are a "christian nation"  because we ARE NOT.  Spend some time on google and search how many religions are represented in this country.  

    @ Jackie- bush= liberal??  good grief woman.   this is a statement so absurd, it boggles the mind.   simply boggles the mind.  what comic book are you reading?

    oh, and Fox "news",  Rush, Hannity, Savage, Drudge, Beck,  etc- are available to everyone - contrary to your understanding,  these are not just beamed to your conservative homes exclusively.   Many  repeat their nonsense word-for-word and  then claim that you do not listen to them .   LOL.  Oh, stop it.
  • JackieM
    Dora--as others have indicated, you are a total idiot.  you dont see a lot of religion in my posts or in Michaels.  it is really hard to debate with someone who is as uneducated in the world as you are.  it is evident by every post you write.  at most you only tell half-truths.  pick up an economics book and read it!  you can exercise your freedom all you want but so can we.  How about learning how to have debates instead of spewing nasty comments especially since this is a conservative blog.  David does an excellent job of this.  i happen to not mind disagreeing with him because of the way he does it.  i am proud to be called a bible-thumper if you chose to throw compliments around especially since it is apparent that my value system is way above yours.  so continue to call me that if you choose.  you just dont like to hear the truth.  it is funny you get angry at facts.  i dont listen to the radio and you can take that to the bank.  however, i spent many, many years in my chosen career, which deals directly with economics, stock markets, etc.  experience talks and bullshit walks!  you are behaving like a child when you say the facts that we talk about are offensive to you. Since this is a free country, you have the right to leave this site and be one of "those" in the Land of the Offended!  i laugh everytime you write "im offended."  who cares!  You speak just as every liberal on CNN and MSNBC with your crap so you need to look in your own closest before telling me what i supposedly listen to since i happen to just state facts (something you cant understand).  by the way, Christianity is the biggest religion in the US and is practiced by a tremendous amount of households compared to other religions so get over it!  oh, if you understand what liberal values are you would not dispute what i say about Bush.  you are just a joke!
  • davidwwalters
    jackieM(54), blasts Dora.....
    <<
    .....at most you only tell half-truths. pick up an economics book and read it! >>
    In the ongoing discussion of why this country is in such bad shape, it is my friends who obfuscate and use half truths.   Michael has just been outed yet again making rhetorical untruths (52)....

    << As for the Rendition continuation (and did you know Abu Ghraib is reopen?)>> -Michael(51)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/21/abu-ghraib-reopens_n_168805.html
    <<Mohammed al-Zeidi, the assistant director of the Iraqi Rehabilitation Department, insisted the new prison would be operated in accordance with international standards.>>
    .....Michael is trying to get people to believe Obamas administration is re-opening Abu-Ghraid....this isnt really the case, now is it?
    -and those economics books, they didnt seem to help forecast the mess that Obama is now saddled with.  Lets hope he throws those damd books you put so much faith in out the window!   They havent served our nations well being very much, now have they?
  • JackieM
    David--i dont think so.  he has an excellent understanding of economics and business.  by the way my posts about markets and the economy are easily tested out.  look at what is happening to the markets every time obama does not give us definite plans.  he has not been great for our nation. we have to have investor confidence or we dont have jobs!  the governments lame excuse for a "stimulus" will only help a small amount in helping everyone who needs a job find one.  everyone cant be an engineer or a ditch digger, David.
  • JackieM
    in an interview this a.m., obamas press secretary said they are very concerned about the markets and realize the reaction of the markets to obamas statements and policies.  even those idiots know how important it is even though they are late and slow!
  • RightKlik
    Conservatives are getting fired up.  Twitter is a great way to network with other conservatives.  Im just now discovering it, but its been a lot of fun already.  Look for me there, Im RightKlik.


    http://www.rightklik.net/
  • Dora
    Jackie-  When you have nothing you call names. Nice.  How very elegant of you. 
    Now,  take your head out of your  behind - or where ever it is that you keep it that prevents your ears from hearing whats actually going on. 
    With rare exception,  those analyzing the ups and downs presently seen in the stock market- and the DOW in particular-  all agree that the activity presently is a CORRECTION to what were inflated reactions in the stock market LAST YEAR.   Your dribble that fell from your face suggesting that because Obama wore brown shoes, or Obama made a funny face, or Obama had a press conference, or whatever other nonsense reason you have in mind- you proclaim that Obama has adversly driven the numbers down.  Damn its a waste of time with the likes of you.    All those that actually understand the stock market - those charged with passing along their expertise in this field - (that would not be you)  have said that
    the recent drops since the stimulus (recovery) package was passed - now law- investors have realized that there is no quick fix to the problems this country faces-
    Problems... big problems.   a package (NOT written by Pelosi as you - once again- got wrong... a package designed and put forth by Obama and his advisors to act as a stimulus to get money flowing and to attempt to ease some fears and uncertainty that permeate the american public as well as the rest of the world.

    Just like your "drill here, drill now, drill baby dirll crap-  there is no instant cure.  I dont give a damn about your supposed background in stocks, economics, or any other item that you claim as your intellectional hammer to be used on others... and on me in particular.   I am not impressed.  Jackie, your type of thinking and background is EXACTLY why we are where we are today.  On a personal level, your attitude is demeaning and belittling and not at all attractive.  I may be "harsh" as david said- blunt, yup... but I have had my fill of your outright ignorance regarding progressives,  Obama, and the Constitution.   Your constant personal attacks and name calling directed at those who would dare to disagree with you does not elevate you- mentally or physically.   I pitty your sorry life filled with nasty verbiage and  wrong information on a world of topics.  Its even more pathetic that you have children upon whom you have elected to pass along your ignorance and bigotry. 
    Fortunately there are less and less of the likes of you- most of them are relegated to sites like this where they will find the tiny right wingnut "base" of the formerly respectable republican party ... a place where you can all sit about and point fingers, shake your heads, and not be willing lift a finger to help your fellow human beings.  
    You, Jackie- are a waste of my time.  I have pencils to sharpen and sox to sort- two activities that will be far more informative and intellectually stimulating than you will ever be.
  • JackieM
    Dora--you are a waste with no substance as usual.  it is evident you dont understand the markets at all.  i really dont give a damn that you are not impressed.  as a matter of fact, ill take that as a compliment considering the source.  so Ill ignore you from now on!  others have commented on you also.  if im in the mood you may get a post saying ignore!
  • Michael
    "I am constantly being called a "hater" for telling you why I believe your methods and ideology are offensive to me.   I am not the one trying to place laws  that support only MY personal religious beliefs.  I am not the one claiming that we are a "christian nation"  because we ARE NOT.  Spend some time on google and search how many religions are represented in this country. "

    Dora,
    I am not the one trying to silence talk radio.  I am not the one who is constantly bashing anyone with any religion.  I am not the one who makes bigoted remarks towards people of viewpoints different then my own.  I will not apologize or even take back a single word I have said about you being a bigot.  You simply are what you are...sad.
  • Michael
    <<Mohammed al-Zeidi, the assistant director of the Iraqi Rehabilitation Department, insisted the new prison would be operated in accordance with international standards.>>

    David,
    I love how you sight the Hufington Post as a legitimate, objective source and in the same breath talk down the most basic of economic principles.  I think that the same was said when Abu Graib was last opened as well was it not.   I am simply making you aware of all of the things that the Bush Admin was demonized for, the new admin seems eager to follow in the same footsteps. 
    From Rendition to TARP to foriegn policy, continuity is the new change.
  • Michael
    Dora and David,

    Should I add hypocrite to the list here?  You bash Rush, yet site the Huffington Post.  You bash Fox, yet site MSNBC talking points.  You bash Bush, yet look over the same actions from Obama. 

    Talk about tiring?  I can predict every single position that you are going to take on every single political stance.  Lock step behind Obama regardless of what he says or does.  It is a waste of time listening to either of you when it is easier for any of us here to simply turn on Keith Olberman or Chris Mathews, at least I can take a break from the rhetoric during commercials with them.

    I like to argue just as much as anyone but I hope that deep down, when the computer is off, you are reasonable people.  I am not saying you have to agree with me or anyone else on here but you seek out a conservative blog to simply rant about.....well just rant.  I have a bit more faith in David than I do Dora but I hope that both of you really arent as you appear on this site.
  • Dora
    Michael, more evidence that you take all of your cues from Fox, Hannity and Rush.   Nobody is trying to take your dear friends from you.  NOBODY... Rush thinks the world revolves around him.  Hes worried as hell that it, in fact, does not. 
    Too bad.  So sad.
  • Dora
    Oh Michael...The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!
    Oh, wait, only according to you.
    Never mind.
  • Michael
    What?  Dora you need to do a bit more than skim posts.  Take some time, read them...sound them out, one syllable at a time and I think you may understand them and not come up with some conclusion that has nothing to do with what I have ever written on here.  Jackie may have a point and perhaps we should just ignore you if this type of dribble is going to continue.
  • JackieM
    Well, tonight was funny.  i could only take some of the rhetoric before i became sick and changed the channel.  lies dont go over too well with me, especially from a guy who claimed to get the same ole politics as usual out of Washington.  ha!  so he voted for the TARP and according to people like schumer, there is pork in the "stimulus" bill, and obama has the nerve to now want to cut the deficit?  hmmmm!  as a conservative, i want to see wasteful spending and entitlements cut out, but if obama was serious about it, he would have not signed the "stimulus" bill in the first place.  of course, obama lied and said there was no pork and only the dumbest of creatures will believe that one!  but hey, they believe he gave the middleclass tax cuts, right?  boy, what can a family of four do with that whole $13/week.  hmmmm!  how about paying the mortgage with it?  what a joke!  now when obama decides to use fear mongering tactics, which democrats accused the republicans of doing last year, it is ok.  however, when clinton says to cool it, obama obeys.  i have always said he was a puppet!  now the lie that republicans are not being bipartisan is really outragious, especially since they were not included in the writing of the bill, and pelosi and cronies would not compromise on the issues esp. those that would help Americans the most now.  that was not working together and whose fault is that?  then democrats put out a negative campaign lying about how republicans would not work with them.  this administration is a total joke, and fortunately or unfortunately it will only be four years!
  • davidwwalters
    <<I love how you sight the Hufington Post as a legitimate, objective source and in the same breath talk down the most basic of economic principles.>>
    -Michael(62)
    .....id have
    cited Fox News had they only they added the gem about Abu Ghraib NOT being a U.S. controlled facility(so i cited a source that mentions that particular fact).....it isnt and to lead people to believe the U.S. is re-opening that site would be at best misleading.

    <<
    I can predict every single position that you are going to take on every single political stance.
    >>
    <<
    but I hope that both of you really arent as you appear on this site.
    >>
    -Michael(63)
    Being a progressive, i do like to point out the facts that the conservative direction this nation began down in 1981 has not served our nation well.  If Chris&Keith(...and Rachael) sound like me, well i guess they strive to pursue the facts.  Slanted though they may be, they do correct themselves as professionally as they can.
    How am i in real life?  I live in a very isolated rural area just west of Ft. Bragg N.C.   Blackhawks buzz overhead bringing their cargo of SF students or paratroopers to train at Camp McCall.....i love the military....i hate what Bush has done to my sons&daughters,  brothers&sisters actively serving or past warriors.  
    I like to shoot my weapons.  I drive in my hybrid to a gym and swim 1.5 Km daily.  I dont drink because it will react badly with the percocet i take for a back problem from all those many years of hard landings as a paratrooper.  I am proud of this country and i dont take kindly to those who would use what i served for, merely to enrich themselves at the expense of our country.
    I get pissd at lazy, non-working types as a lot of conservatives do.....but i also know there arent as many as Rush&Hannity like to claim.  The real ball breaker for our budget isnt an army of welfare mammas, but an army of lobbyist on K Street selling weapons our military neither needs or in many cases do not want in the guise of protecting us.
    Am i happy with every Obama move so far?  It is too early to tell.  He has a HUGE mess to fix, and i know how difficult messs are to clean up.  Not happy that he is hedging on Iraqi withdrawal, but he is Cmd-in-Chief and ill give him enough time to sort that out.  Same goes with the economy, but time will tell.  He has my vote, and ill give him a chance.  -Same i did with Bush Jr.
  • davidwwalters
    (....though BushJr. Didnt get my vote......id NEVER vote for a Bush)
  • simonesdad2009
    Im not sure if the republican majority who are on Twitter actually know how to use it.  I was on last night during both speeches.  In sports terms, it was a near shutout.  Barack was widely praised and lines from his speech appeared over and over again in peoples comments (could you imagine that for a Bush speech).  There were even some, "I dont like/didnt vote for Obama but...." comments in there too.  On the other hand, Jindal was almost universally panned on Twitter (and elsewhere).  He was often compared to Mr. Rogers or Kenny on "30 Rock."  Kenny was mentioned so many times he began trending on Twitter.  Trending is a real time measure of who or what is being mentioned throughout the Twitter universe.

    I get the feeling that there was a republican talking point somewhere that said sign up for Twitter so we can appear relevant and with the times.  And like sheep they all signed up not knowing what it was or how to use it.  Nobody bothered to tell republicans what to do once signed up.  But the Washington Times and the UC, by regurgitation, got a little story out of it.  There is the republican problem in a nutshell....an Jindal is the nut that belongs in that shell.
  • davidwwalters
    <<There is the republican problem in a nutshell....and Jindal is the nut that belongs in that shell.>>
    -:)
  • JackieM
    yeah, i guess obama is not a nut because he is graciously giving the middleclass a taxbreak!  how nice of him to give them $13/week!  he is such a nice man-not!  now we are in a time of crisis and people are struggling.  so how stupid are people to think he is a "leader" for $13/week!  hmmm!  will that pay for a car payment?  give me a break!  American has dumbed down for sure!  now he voted for TARP and is responsible for the pork bill (ok ill just say that we are paying a huge, unnecessary premium to create a few jobs in comparision to the amount of money being wasted.) and now a new spending bill may be coming up for a vote.  so he is now talking about cutting spending?  what is this?  hmmmmm!  contradictions are everywhere.  spending definitely needs to be cut and he can start with the money going overseas for abortions that he is responsible for.  what a jerk!  America has definitely dumbed down!  no wonder there are so many dropouts now--look at the parents!
  • JackieM
    by the way,  thank goodness the puppet "obama" finally listened to clinton and gave a hoooraaah speech last night.  isnt fear-mongering what democrats accused republicans of last year?  hmmmm!  another problem!
  • davidwwalters
    .....Fear mongering......as in weapons of mass destruction that didnt exist?
    I suppose this economic meltdown is merely a figment of ones imagination.
    <<$13/week!.......................will that pay for a car payment?>>
    -maybe not, but when times are bad, even $52 will help pay that auto insurance.
  • Michael
    "..Fear mongering......as in weapons of mass destruction that didnt exist?" Are you talking about Bush or Clinton, they both did that. Also too, coming from an intel background, do you know what jaguar is and how that affected the information that all intelligence agencies were reporting about the WMDs?  Your intel credibility is on the line with this one David, what do you know and when did you know it?
  • Michael
    "How am i in real life?  I live in a very isolated rural area just west of Ft. Bragg N.C."
    Nice post David, I really feel like I know you now!  So let me get this straight, you are neither URBAN or a CONSERVATIVE yet here you are.  That is great.
  • JackieM
    Well, David, as i said before, by obama graciously giving the middleclass $52/week, he is sticking his middle finger up at all of them saying who gives a damn: this is all of your money that you are getting.  he is making a mockery out of everyone!  hmmmm!  yeah, i guess if i were insecure and stupid, i would say thank you, thank you for thinking of us.  i appreciate the dime you have thrown my way while kicking me when im down.  ill wash your feet too and be thankful for the honor!  give me a break!
  • JackieM
    David--Fear-mongering is what obama accused the Bush administration of doing, and he declared he would not do it!  ha!  well, im losing count now.  what number in the long list of lies is this one?  i must be getting old or maybe there are now too many to count?  i will say it is the later.  Oh, lets just sweep this lie under the rug with the rest of them and the democrats will be none the wiser--erase, erase, erase!
  • JackieM
    dow is down again today.  i guess that says what the markets think of obamas speech last night.  they are right on this one for sure!
  • harrysmom
    Just a note to conservatives....


    In the 1960s, a study on how to calm and pacify anxious children was published.  The "techniques" involved speaking to children in "sing song" inflections / keep messages simple and understandable by crafting them in two stanzas with the same cadence / softening the voice on the final line of communication in order to incite acquiescence to a message that might otherwise be challenging / and maintaining a non-challenging demeanor throughout the exchange.  


    Ronald Reagan employed this technique.  George W. Bush imitated it.  And Bobby Jindal attempted it last night, but it came off incredibly awkward because I dont believe its his natural demeanor.  In other words, the Republican approach to getting the faithful to go along with their message (even when it proves to be overwhelmingly miscalculated) is to employ the same "techniques" that parents are advised to use with anxious (aka disobedient) children.  People, they are treating you like terrible two year olds!  Wake up!
  • davidwwalters
    "So let me get this straight, you are neither URBAN or a CONSERVATIVE yet here you are."-Michael(75)
    -with all the untruths and propaganda that has allowed republicans(...in the guise of conservatives)to gain and hold power over our nation, i like to allow the light of day to permeate this canopy of deception with my unique point of view.  Dismiss me if you care.  Wont bother me.
    <<......which led the army to believe it needed its own undercover espionage unit, rather than having to rely on the CIA.>>
    http://vigilant.tv/article/3076
    Michael.....my intel is dated, and as you are aware, even with a clearance, compartmentalization allows only to know information essential to the facet of ones area of expertise.
    I worked  the G-2 section of the 82nd Abn Div. from 1985-1987.
    Did we do our own undercover work?  Yes, i did.  But the truth may not be revealed as to the particulars.  My area?  I was an 82-Q....Terrain Analysist
    It was like a photo interpreter.  -A was a cush job after being a grunt on "Ardennes" for a number of years.  But like anything else, my infantry background was useful.
    Does it seem plausible(what this article says....)?  Yes.  After the Church hearings, the CIAs human assets were seriously hamstrung.  Like anything else, Frank Churchs well meaning probe had unintended consequences.
    The problem with intelligence is how it is analyzed.  We can make contact with Iraqi generals all day long.  If we believe them simply because it fits in with a pre-conceived notion, that shit will "bite you in the ass every time"
    This is what i believe happened, or at least there is reason to believe that an Iraqi General made stuff up for whatever reason suited his purposes.  As with any other intel....it must be cross-referenced with lots of other data to draw a conclusion, and still, one is just guessing.
  • Dora
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/
  • Dora
    The Republican Noise Machine doesnt need the customary 100 days to size up the new president. Right-wing commentators barely needed 30 days to come to their conclusion that they hate everything Barack Obama stands for.
    In terms of speed and efficiency, the right-wing collection of bloggers, AM talkers, pundits, and yes, newspaper cartoonists, may have set a new land speed record for becoming collectively unhinged, as they wail and moan about how the new Democratic presidents turning America into a fascist state, or communist, or socialist, or whatever other bugaboo claim Glenn Beck and Laura Ingraham are tossing out to viewers and listeners on a daily basis.
    Barack Obama is "arrogant," "dishonest," and "radical," Fox News Sean Hannity announced during a single 10-second chunk of prime-time TV last week -- a casually hateful appraisal that didnt even raise eyebrows, simply because that kind of blanketed disdain for the new president has already become so commonplace.
    Rush Limbaughs original anti-Obama proclamation at the outset of his presidency -- "I hope he fails" -- already seems benign in retrospect. Since Inauguration Day weve learned Obama has "Marxist tendencies" and is "addicting this country to heroin -- the heroin that is government slavery" (Glenn Beck). That, "there are eerie, eerie similarities" between Obama and Nazis" (Michael Savages guest host, Chris Stigall). And of course, Limbaugh himself famously bemoaned that "[w]e are being told that we have to hope [Obama] succeeds, that we have to bend over, grab the ankles ... because his father was black."
    Meanwhile, last week widely read right-wing blogger Michelle Malkin was seen smiling while getting her picture taken with an Obama hater who proudly brandished a swastika placard at an anti-Obama rally in Denver. And the following day, Rupert Murdochs far-right New York Post published a grotesque cartoon that seemed to associate Obama with a bullet-ridden monkey whod been shot by two white cops on a city sidewalk.
    If we just pause and take one or two steps back from the daily/hourly barrage of hate, its obvious that faced with the new Obama presidency, the Republican Noise Machine has already lost all perspective -- has gone totally loco -- and its only February, a mere month into Obamas first four years in office. Who dares to even imagine where the right-wing "conversation" goes from here?
    Its astounding to watch the avalanche of hate ooze from conservative media quarters. And why? Because Obama passed an economic recovery bill. Good Lord, imagine if he had failed to win the popular vote and then led the country into a pre-emptive war based on faulty intelligence, a war that lost thousands of American lives, and tens of thousands of foreign lives, while milking the U.S. treasury out of a few trillion dollars in the process.
    I suspect the unvarnished hate directed toward Obama, the radical rhetoric behind it, and most especially the overnight delivery used to proclaim it, is unprecedented for our modern politics. Even during the first Clinton weeks and months in 1993, I dont think the right-wing ratcheted up the demonizing language this quickly. Note that back then the Republican Noise Machine was just coming into its own, whereas today its a well-oiled hate machine. Also, in the early 1990s, the Noise Machine (i.e., Limbaugh) hadnt been given unofficial control of Republican Party messaging the way it has today. There still seemed to be some (emphasis on some) adult supervision within conservative circles.
    But today, by openly embracing Limbaugh, leader-less conservatives are purposefully mainstreaming the talkers brand of loonyness. And by enthusiastically endorsing Limbaugh and his crowd, Republicans must accept -- must take ownership of -- the radical hate speech that defines the Noise Machine. The way Limbaugh, already under Obama, has compared Democrats to murderers, rapists, and Satan. The way Limbaugh recently tagged them as "immoral" people who are "not truly religious" and who are waging an "assault" on the Constitution, while claiming Democrats hate life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. (And Beltway journalists naïvely scratch their heads wondering why Obama cannot achieve bipartisanship.)
    That hate speech is now, unequivocally, the sanctioned voice of the Republican Party. Its a voice that, after just 30 days of an Obama presidency, has gone completely bonkers. And its a voice thats revealed itself in the form of swastikas, dead monkeys, and bizarre talk of ankle-grabbing.


    Unhinged in 30 days: The right-wing medias Obama era implosion
    by Eric Boehlert
    http://mediamatters.org/columns/200902230016?f=...

    I know that there are many here who hold tight their own version of reality ... an easily debunked version-  so they will not dare to click on the link to see what is being said.  Its a sad thing what fragile things these right wing fanatics are... but in the end, they are like the imagined ghosts they hear in the night caused by the wind.  
    They amuse me though.  Why?  Because what they claim is so easily proven false... and they are too fearful to shatter their own illusions to learn this for themselves.
  • harrysmom
    Jackie, did you half read my comment?  I was simply pointing out the rhetorical style of Reagan, Bush, Jindal, and actually Palin in some cases but she utilizes her own style for the most part.  Jindals speech pattern sounded like a cross of the faux Reaganesque patterns of Bush and one of those guys who narrates the high school science films that we used to watch on the last day of the grading quarter.  He may as well have said "good evening boys and girls..."
  • davidwwalters
    <<Meanwhile, last week widely read right-wing blogger Michelle Malkin was seen smiling while getting her picture taken with an Obama hater who proudly brandished a swastika placard at an anti-Obama rally in Denver. And the following day, Rupert Murdochs far-right New York Post published a grotesque cartoon that seemed to associate Obama with a bullet-ridden monkey whod been shot by two white cops on a city sidewalk.>>-Dora(83)
    and some wonder why people like Dora&I get kinda pissd off or a bit irritated.....
  • davidwwalters
    <<....................people on the left have said time and time again that the republicans need to explain what they stand for so he did in a way that even those who have trouble with English and reading understood him.>>
    JackieM(85)
    So republicans(as Bobby Jindal seemed to be saying)
    stand for "....to hell with unemployed workers.....NO UNEMPLOYMENT HANDOUT FOR YOU!"
    Yeah, i understand him JackieM.
  • Michael
    So you can empathize when Mary Mapes was fired for her "faulty" story on President Bush?

    So you can empathize when Dan Rather was let go after his misreporting of "Recordsgate" on President Bush?

    So you can empathize when Ted Cohen was fired because of his misreporting of a 1976 DWI about President Bush?

    So you can empathize when a NBC reporter was fired after he doctored a video airing John Gibson of Fox News to make it sound as though he made a racial statement about Eric Holder?

    So you can empathize when the host last night on MSNBC in the background as Bobby Jindal was about to give the counter to Obama said "OH God!"

    So you can empathize when Karen Dinkins was fired after wearing a pro-obama t-shirt while on air covering the elections?

    So you can empathize when a movie is made during President Bushs term "Death of a President" depicts his assassination?

    and some wonder why people like Jackie&I get kinda pissd off or a bit irritated.....
  • davidwwalters
    Michael(88).....
    Not really(empathize for Mary Mapes).....she did get canned, didnt she?
    You see, this is the crux of the matter is that regardless of the validity of the Killian Documents, George Bush Jr., unlike his dad was a draft dodger.  At least Bill Clinton has the balls enough to oppose the war publicly.  Jr. had daddy get him an appointment to the Texas Air National Guard.  Let me school ya on the 60s......Only well connected could get these slots at that time, because reservists and guard members DIDNT go to Vietnam.  It was the rich kids way to avoid service in that unfortunate war.  (My dad served as a Special Forces adviser there, and promptly retire when he returned in 1966, saying that the war was was "a lost cause.....they wont fight".)  Perhaps Jr. knew that as well, who knows.  So Jr. didnt drive drunk.....really?
    It would be nice if that pile of human excrement (AKA George Bush Jr.) sits in a prison....but it usually doesnt happen to people with his pedigree.
  • Michael
    " So Jr. didnt drive drunk.....really?"
    At the same time Obama is doing some "hard drugs"  Your hate runs deep my friend, your excuses thin.

    "Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it," Barack Obama

    Somehow not a big deal all the sudden for some reason.  Berate one, excuse the other.  Typical I suppose.
  • Michael
    If he cant kick smoking, I wonder how kicking the cocaine habit has worked out for President Obama?  I dont know if there is a blow patch or does he opt for the blow gum?
  • davidwwalters
    <<Somehow not a big deal all the sudden for some reason.  Berate one, excuse the other.  Typical I suppose.>>-Michael(88)
    Well, i guess you are part of Reagans "just say no generation"......
    Nothing wrong with that.  However, what i am berating is the attitude of Bush Jr.  Not a fan of the Bush clan, yet at least the old man had the balls to stand up and fight for his nation.....Old Prescott had connections enough to get him a cush job somewhere in Washington like ol Joe Kennedy did for John(.....until he F**kd that all up with his "dangerous liaison")......
    Maybe i do harbor deep seated hate for the frat boy mentality of George Bush Jr. and others like him.  That is the precisely why i despise the the pile of dog excrement AKA known as George Bush Jr.  But hate can be a good thing my friend.....if one can figure out how to tap in to it in a positive way.  Tapping into my "inner hate" was my key to making sergeant after only 26 months in service.  
    But i digress...The point is, Barack Obama brought himself up by the proverbial "bootstraps"......while Jr. depended on "Daddy" to bale him out whenever he time after time, screwed up.  And his presidency shows this attitude which is key to his failure and hence, our nations demise.
  • davidwwalters
    "Let us disappoint the men who would raise themselves upon the ruin of our country."
    -- John Adams
    Twitter this!
    ........the republican partys only plan seems to be that they are banking on the failure of Obamas economic plan, and hence the nations failure.  How patriotic!  I suppose if they wear enough Chinese-made flag pins it will somehow atone their cynical plan......
  • Michael
    "Maybe i do harbor deep seated hate for the frat boy mentality of George Bush Jr. and others like him."
    I agree, class envy is a problem for many Democrats.  They want what others have without wanting to work for it...so that is why redistribution from upper income earners through welfare payments to no income earners is so appealing to people like yourself.  Hey, I dont blame you.  Sitting around with your handout is much easier than the sacrifices of getting an education and then getting up and going to work every day.

    "the republican partys only plan seems to be that they are banking on the failure of Obamas economic plan, and hence the nations failure."
    When you get your news about the Republican Party via Keith Olberman and the Huffington Post, I see where you would think that.  Now if you would get your head out of liberal garbage you would see differently.

    "The Republican Party has been the party of ideas for some time now, for the past 10 to 15 years as they challenged conventional wisdom"  Barack Obama
  • Michael


    Huh, didnt I say this to you in response to what the "Republican" plan was just yesterday? Dems didnt see this coming I guess?
    But the Fed also might have kept alive weak banks and other institutions having balance sheets stuffed with toxic assets, the two professors suggest. The weak are afraid to sell such assets because doing so would wipe them out, while strong institutions dont want to buy because they are holding out for a fire sale.
    Without a lifeline from the Fed, the weaklings could have died, putting the assets in stronger hands at cheaper prices.
    "Central bank intervention to lend against all manner of collateral may not be an unmitigated blessing," Messrs. Diamond and Rajan wrote.
  • davidwwalters
    Michael(91).....
    (There you go again.....)
    <<I agree, class envy is a problem for many Democrats.
    They want what others have without wanting to work for it.>>
    -I seriously doubt you have toiled anywhere near as hard as i have in my life.
    "Class envy" Hell!
    I never desired to be a frat boy, no, i did it on my own, without a frat boy safety net provided by daddy or some trust fund.  When conditions dictated that my college wasnt going to be paid for any longer, i joined the economic draft into the military.
    But then the military was a good education in itself.  I learned a lot about a very wide range of people and how to spot BULLSHIT&LIARS.

    <<
    When you get your news about the Republican Party via Keith Olberman and the Huffington Post, I see where you would think that.  Now if you would get your head out of liberal garbage you would see differently.
    >>
    Only for entertainment do i listen to Olberman, Limbaugh, or Hanity......but i will say this for Keith, he at least trys to be factual.
    Like your rightwing mentors, Michael, you love to take things out of context to twist the truth which is so typical of the propagandists of the right. In my book, It Is Lying!
    <<"The Republican Party has been the party of ideas for some time now, for the past 10 to 15 years as they challenged conventional wisdom" Barack Obama>>

    http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/20...>
    <<"The Clinton campaign knows it that if they repeated the claim that Obama just loved those ol Republican ideas, theyd be lying."                                                                                      
    So here is the script of their new radio ad:

    VO: “Listen to Barack Obama last week talking about Republicans.
    BO: “The Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years.”
    VO: “Really? Aren’t those the ideas that got us into the economic mess we’re in today? Ideas like special tax breaks for Wall Street. Running up a $9 trillion debt. Refusing to raise the minimum wage or deal with the housing crisis. Are those the ideas Barack Obama’s talking about?”
    BO: “The Republicans were the party of ideas.”
    "......said that Republicans pushed new ideas to the the fore while Democrats were largely silent. That is, he praised Republicans for coming up new ideas. Nowhere did he say he preferred those ideas.">>-Marc Ambinder
    Michael, you are quickly proving yourself to be a liar.  This is not good for your cause.  Maybe you should rethink your tact.
  • Dora
    david.  "class envy" is a term  being mouthed daily by their hero and current leader of the ultra right wing party:
    Rush Limbaugh.
    apparently Democrats... ALL Democrats suffer from class envy according to Limbaugh  (and Michael) because we are all lazy,  uneducated,  slackers and welfare queens - unable and/or disinterested to become a success on their own and spend their time badmouthing anyone and everyone that makes an honest living.  
    you need not take my word for it- transcripts of his productions are available on line.
    people here continue to deny that they listen avidly and take their lead from this individual who has flat out lied about what is in the stimulus/recovery bill.  Limbaugh has never met a fact he could not distort for his own selfish interests and theatrics.  hes very clever, actually-  he feeds off of  the ignorance of his listeners...seriously.  they are his bread and butter. 
    People like Michael,  Jackie,  and others here deny they listen to this buffoon, yet somehow they are able to quote exactly his words.  wow.  it must be magic.
  • davidwwalters
    <<ALL Democrats suffer from class envy according to Limbaugh  (and Michael) because we are all lazy,  uneducated,  slackers and welfare queens - unable and/or disinterested to become a success on their own and spend their time badmouthing anyone and everyone that makes an honest living.>> -Dora(94)
    O
    ne of the reasons i visit UCs blog is to dispel the myth of the typical lefty.
    -A gun-loving, ex-paratrooper who worked his ass off all his life doesnt fit that mold, and Michael made the mistake of attempting to paint me with his wide brush.   The neander-cons hate it when someone like me points out the fallacy of their arguments.
    Im retired now for 4 years.  Ive spent nearly 20 years listening to Rush.  The conservatives ive worked for ALWAYS had that clown on.  He was worth quite a few laughs, but it is kinda sad when so many "ditto-heads" are lobotomized by his pronouncements.  And these followers like to take truths and distort them or in some cases, just make stuff up to bolster their arguments.  But the chickens always come home to roost......the nearly 30 years of tax cuts for the wealthy and de-regulation of our financial sector has RUINED our nation.  And they still try to use the old tired arguments, lies and distortions to attempt to make their case.  Straw man arguments are attempted, and Rush even WANTS our nation to fail to allow his Tired Old Party to regain power.....how F**King Patriotic!
    The people are beginning to see the light.  Their arguments are falling on deaf ears......
    I try so hard to be civil on this blog, but when i see what the republicans are trying to do to MY country......well i just get ill.  Did you see Nancy Pelosi on Rachael Maddow last night?  Does she want to put some REAL
    criminals in jail? -That would be sweet!!!!
  • Richard
    Dora, please stop trolling.

    Nice article, guys.
  • davidwwalters
    "Let us disappoint the men who would raise themselves upon the ruin of our country" -John Adams
    " I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: "Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails."  Somebodys gotta say it."-Rush Limbaugh
  • Michael
    Speaking of John Adams, he also said...

    Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.

    And

    Fear is the foundation of most governments.


    And this one for Dora....

    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.


    I too hope Obama fails, the same as Rush does in the bankrupting of this country.  Once again, politics aside, I am not sure how this is all going to pan out anymore.  I have always been an optimist, but the data is now saying I am wrong.  I am in this with you David and Dora just like I am in this with every other American.  Even Putin has said we are heading down the wrong path, how absurd is that, not very when two days later Soros says this can only be compared to the meltdown of the USSR. 

    There is no stopping this.  I have resigned myself to that belief.  It is over.
  • Michael
    David and Dora,

    Chickens have come home to roost?  Quoting everything Rush has to say?  You are both the absolute steriotypes for the uniformed, uneducated, class envy left who are self loathing, self hating because of the shortcoming in your own life.  Dora, perhaps you realize that deep down you are a racist, you are a bigot, you have achieved less than what you are capable of achieving and take that self loathing out on others here on a Conservative site.  As I said before, there are counselors.
    I want to help you!  http://suicidehotlines.com/

    David, I thought more of you at first.  Someone who perhaps disagreed on legitimate grounds and someone who I thought I may actually get a objective differing viewpoint from regarding the views of the left.  You have background, but you lack reason, logic, and rely on senseless rhetoric...I am disappointed by you the most as I actually had hope you may give me a debate but that train has sailed apparently.

    Both of you, anyone reading this, and I assure you many do who do not participate in the discussion, will make their own judgments base on the arguments of the right vs left.  I feel confident in the information I have put out and I know you lack the embarrassment that is warranted by your talking points. 

    I hoped more from the opposition from this site as I am getting better debate from others.  But I am encouraged by the intellectualism of Jackie, Bud and others here that have shown they can look beyond politics and towards Americanism.  They see the possibility of people, not the faults.  They see the American dream, not a dim world view.  They respect those who contribute to all, than those who only want cater to a few.  This is Americas future and you will fade into a dark chapter of its past.
  • Kathy F
    I consider myself an independent.  I live in a urban area in a fairly large city.  Not extreme one way or the other.  But I cant figure out how anyone can follow along with trillions and trillions in spending.  I thought the first 700 billion was it.  Then I thought the nest 850 billion was it.  Now I am hoping this 4 trillion is it.  I am hearing of a second stimulus plan by summer.  I hear auto bailouts that are in the billions. 

    I am not rich!  I have a family, I work, I pay my bills.  I do not want a dime from anyone but everyone I talk to says dont worry, Obama will help you, just hang in there.  What does that mean?  Should I stop paying my house payment?  I am ready to do that if that means I get to keep some money and makes me eligable for some of this money.

    I pay work and I pay taxes  do I stop?  I dont make much I dont need much so what is the point if the rich will pay for everything?  I dont believe in this but whynot? I can put ahand out just as good as anyone
  • HWStone
    I have decide to support Rush whole heartedly! He is right, Obama can not succeed in destroying our country, our values, our principles, and the hearts and minds of its people.  I stand against Barack Obama in his efforts to socialize America, criminalize its most ardent supporters and attack by name its people including Rush and Santelli! 

    I say to all Liberals that to criticize on Admin for policies that another Admin continues, is hypocritical.  I am disgusted by the rhetoric, unimpressed by the hype, and laugh at the audacity that you call hope and change.  I will stand up, along with others, here and everywhere in a REVOLUTION that will see your party, not fall as it did in 94, but destroyed as it will be in 2010.  I am not alone, I am not afraid, and I am not intoxicated by the same eloquent speach that brought to power the likes of Hitler. 

    Truth, not words are what draws me to Rush.  Truth, not talking points draws me to Santelli.  I am not blinded by rhetoric, I am not fooled by eloquence, I am not persuaded by teleprompter speaches.   This site, and every other Conservative Blog, Radio Show, Television Show, Newspaper, and website will get the real information out to the masses to cut through the senslesness of the new castrati.

    No appologies, no backing down...only direct intelectual confrontation on liberal blogs, liberal talkshows (if they could get anyone to listen) and liberal television shows (if they could get anyone to watch)  this is the direction of an energized conservative movement, and it has already begun!
  • davidwwalters
    <<Truth, not words are what draws me to Rush.>>-HWStone(101)
    George Bush Jr. could fund a program to co-ordinate technology and R&D for the health industries. But if you say(and in America you can say almost anything.....) Obama is spending your tax money to invade your private health records (a big fat lie), well some(....Ditto-Heads?) get all upset.
    <<I stand against Barack Obama in his efforts to socialize America, criminalize its most ardent supporters and attack by name its people including Rush and Santelli!>>
    .........T
    here is so much silly rhetoric in this sentence that i dont know where to start.  Criminalizing?  -Who?  Richie Rich still has his bully pulpit, and Mortimer (Rush) still lies on a daily basis.  No problem here, its what i served to protect(....that rag, AKA The Constitution).
    Socialize America?  -Roosevelt should have continued Hoovers policy too of trying to balance the budget; how well would that have gone?  I wonder how many times Franklin would have been re-elected had he followed that sound policy?
    <<Obama can not succeed in destroying our country, our values, our principles, and the hearts and minds of its people.>>
    Are our values to take from the poor and give to the rich so they can invest?  But Obama can insure that the rich begin to pay their fair share again......
    Lets get this straight HWStone, the country was on the "Eve of Destruction" before he was sworn in last month......weve seen 8 years of tax cuts for ONLY the wealthy.  It was people like Rick Santelli that greedily sold these silly derivatives that Phil Gramm brought us and led this economy to ruin.
    The marginal income tax on the highest earners goes back to 39.6 percent (from 35 percent, now), and capital gains rates to 20 percent (from 15, now)......just like it was back in 1994, and the economy didnt tank.  So Rick whines like a baby.  Awwwww.......poor baby, hell have to pay out now.  Will this kill him?  I doubt it, unless he has a stroke or something.
  • JackieM
    Thanks, Michael.  I think the difference between us and Dora and David is that we can add.  The numbers dont add up no matter which way the democrats try to spin them.  The substance or lack there of is a story within itself.  there is no way anyone can spin that and convince average people it will work so i guess we know the audience that buys into it.  By the way Dora and David, it is funny that you keep insisting that I listen to Rush.  I honestly dont for no other reason than I have no clue what radio station he is on in my area.  David, you know what city Im in so let me know what station and time.  Ill be glad to tune in to find out what he is saying.  There is one thing you should know about me, I dont lie unlike obama and his cronies.  So stop acusing me of something you know nothing about.  Have you ever thought that there are people in the world that base their thoughts on actual facts and education of the subject?  hmmmm!  Bright idea,  huh!  If I have the same philosophies as he does, then I know he is a smart man!
  • davidwwalters
    Michael(99).....
    <<S
    omeone who perhaps disagreed on legitimate grounds and someone who I thought I may actually get a objective differing viewpoint from regarding the views of the left.  You have background, but you lack reason, logic, and rely on senseless rhetoric...
    >>
    -What is unreasonable or illogical about pointing out that the repeal of Glass-Stegal was the mechanism that allowed this economic meltdown to occur?  Or was it that i pointed out your persistent twisting of the facts?  Sorry if that upset you, but that is what i do......Bullshit Detector.
    I became politically aware in June 1968.  The next president was killed.....Dr. King was gunned down the previous April.  My dad had come home 2 years prior from a tour as an adviser in Vietnam and announced then "the war is lost...." I was only 14, but i understood that my country that i had been raised to understand as "The Greatest" on earth was working like a 3rd world nation and their coup detats.
    I point out the faults because i love this once great nation.  I see people like Rick Santelli pilfering while this nation crumbles.  We can gloss over the fact that the past 8 years and the policies of the republican party have sadly, ruined our country.
  • Titus Hunt
    From JackieM--Having trouble posting again. 

    Thanks, Michael.  I think the difference between us and Dora and David is that we can add.  The numbers dont add up no matter which way the democrats try to spin them.  By the way Dora and David, it is funny that you keep insisting that I listen to Rush.  I dont for no other reason than I have no clue what radio station he is on in my area.  David, you know what city Im in so let me know what station and time.  Ill be glad to tune in to find out what he is saying.  If I have the same philosophies as he does, then I know he is a smart man!
     
    Thanks, Michael.  I think the difference between us and Dora and David is that we can add.  The numbers dont add up no matter which way the democrats try to spin them.  The substance or lack there of is a story within itself.  there is no way anyone can spin that and convince average people it will work so i guess we know the audience that buys into it.  By the way Dora and David, it is funny that you keep insisting that I listen to Rush.  I honestly dont for no other reason than I have no clue what radio station he is on in my area.  David, you know what city Im in so let me know what station and time.  Ill be glad to tune in to find out what he is saying.  There is one thing you should know about me, I dont lie unlike obama and his cronies.  So stop acusing me of something you know nothing about.  Have you ever thought that there are people in the world that base their thoughts on actual facts and education of the subject?  hmmmm!  Bright idea,  huh!  If I have the same philosophies as he does, then I know he is a smart man!
  • Michael
    "What is unreasonable or illogical about pointing out that the repeal of Glass-Stegal was the mechanism that allowed this economic meltdown to occur?  Or was it that i pointed out your persistent twisting of the facts?  Sorry if that upset you, but that is what i do......Bullshit Detector."

    I was talking about your positions overall as you certainly didnt think I was saying you had any background in financial services did you.  Oh no.  And I tried to explain a couple of times here what the specific reasoning was to the beginning of the meltdown, but you persist down a road that just is incorrect.  I am sorry but as I said before, I do not respect you as a professional in this matter and you are playing a game that you know little to nothing about other than what Olberman and Mathews tell you to believe.  I have first hand experience you have MSNBC, now is that Bullshit?
  • Michael
    David, have you yet explained how a single foreclosure was a result of the GLB?  I believe I have showed you where other "well intentioned" legislation has had a direct effect on changing financing which caused people to get in over their heads.  You havent done this yet, at all.  Is your little detector constantly going off in the background as you type? 

    You will not, because you can not show a cause and effect relationship in default and foreclosure rates.  But lets try it again, ...splain it to me lucy!
  • HWStone
    stand against Barack Obama in his efforts to socialize America, criminalize its most ardent supporters and attack by name its people including Rush and Santelli!>>
    .........T
    here is so much silly rhetoric in this sentence that i dont know where to start.  Criminalizing?

    Harry Reids smear letter against Rush asking for a a resolution to be passed in the UNITED STATES SENATE to condemn a private citizen over a statement by Rush that was intentionally misinterpreted by the left.

    Fairness Doctrine to limit free speech and dictate to stations what is an "appropriate" amount of right vs left views.

    1.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veF2KNlHW6w
    2.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34I3kg7BeF8

    You say others lie and then when they put up information you just keep on with your own lies.  You cant lie to me, only yourself when faced with fact.  You have none, you draw irrational conclusions on almost every topic.  I assume it is just to argue for the sake of arguing but you are an embarrassment to all of us who do not simply want free speech, but the freedom of ideas.  
    You are allowed to say what you wish, unencumbered on conservative sites like this one, yet it is hypocrites like yourself who wish to take the right of individual thought and expression from others.  I would be ashamed sir, that is not what either of us fought for.


  • davidwwalters
    <<You say others lie and then when they put up information you just keep on with your own lies.  You cant lie to me, only yourself when faced with fact.  You have none, you draw irrational conclusions on almost every topic.  I assume it is just to argue for the sake of arguing but you are an embarrassment to all of us who do not simply want free speech, but the freedom of ideas.>>-HWStone
    Wow! You can have the AM bands(Liberals dont have AM radios!)
    .....i listen to Mortimer(Rush) for fun.....but it is my experience that anyone who takes that overweight, narcissistic ass seriously is simply a fool.  Sorry if that includes you.
    I dont know what you are blabbering about when you talk about facts.  If facts have anything to do with pronouncements of Mortimer or Sean the Manatee then you are sadly mistaken.  You can think (.....that may be a stretch in your case) anything you want my friend.   That there are some intelligent conservative thinkers out there gives me hope for our nation.... My point in being here is to show the fallacy of many of the conservative arguments.  Neither side of the political spectrum have all the ideas to solve our problems.   We have tried the conservative approach and it hasnt worked.
    Its time to try a different tact.
  • davidwwalters
    Michael(104)
    <<....
    but you persist down a road that just is incorrect.
    >>
    So you can deny Phil Gramms role as de-regulator and his role in repealing Glass-Stegal.......
    <<......I am sorry but as I said before, I do not respect you as a professional in this matter and you are playing a game that you know little to nothing about other than what Olberman and Mathews tell you to believe>>
    Like i said before, it was so-called professionals such as you that have landed us in this mess. 
    And now youd try to obfuscate,  trying to kill the messenger, because you just dont want to hear the truth(.....or have others hear the truth).
    ....claiming im not smart enough to figure it out for myself, you attempt to blame it on one TV show or another.  No, i checked it out myself when i heard Phil Gramms idiotic statement:
    -“We have sort of become a nation of whiners,” “You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline”
    It made me wonder what sort of idiot could be so out of touch with reality to make such a statement.....
    <<David, have you yet explained how a single foreclosure was a result of the GLB?>>
    Lots of folks want to have a simplistic answer to fit a preconcieved notion about the market meltdown.  "Experts" like you are happy to oblige them.
    -Did government goons actually come into banks and force poor little bankers to make loans to minorities?  Yeah, right!
    Or was it that some guys who thought they were smart find a way to repackage sub-prime loans, give them an AAA rating and sell them off at huge profits?  What was the mechanism that gave these smart-guys the ability to do such crooked thing?  GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY!
    Sorry, my man...but your reputation sucks on this matter.
    I do not respect you as a professional in this matter ....
  • davidwwalters
    Author: JackieM
    Comment:
    David--Fear-mongering is what obama accused the Bush administration of doing, and he declared he would not do it!  ha!  well, im losing count now.  what number in the long list of lies is this one?  i must be getting old or maybe there are now too many to count?  i will say it is the later.  Oh, lets just sweep this lie under the rug with the rest of them and the democrats will be none the wiser--erase, erase, erase!
    OK......Fear-mongering would be making up a problem that isnt real.....like "Saddam has nukes so we cant wait till theres mushroom clouds to attack him...."
    -As opposed to the real problem we find our markets in now.  See the difference now?
  • HWStone
    you are a joke.  Once again, how did a single default, a single foreclosure happen due to the packaging on the secondary market?  It didnt.  ARMs, Balloons, Stated Incomes, I/Os all accompanied by many markets declining in value not allowing for refis out of these loans.  That on top of more and more subprimes defaulting at a rate 10 times as often as a prime.

    The truth doesnt matter to you.  You keep telling everyone they are lie even though they may know a bit more than you.  I am done with you David, your circular idiotic arguments make sense to no one but yourself.  "Lots of folks want to have a simplistic answer to fit a preconcieved notion about the market meltdown. "  Loan made vs Loan default is pretty easy and simplistic indeed for most of us except for you.
  • JackieM
    No, David, because obama should project leadership in what he is saying instead of trying to place the blame on the previous administration, especially since he voted for the bill.  of course, even your buddy clinton said obama should not do that.  so the next day or so obama gave a rah, rah speech.  too funny!  heaven for bid help the one sector that employs the most people in the US--small businesses!  they dont want to actually fix the problems, David.  Look at the 9,000 earmarks in the last bill.  give me a break.
  • JackieM
    <!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 <![endif]--> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:1.0in; mso-footer-margin:1.0in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->
    No, David, because obama instilled fear into the nation without addressing a major problem—small businesses that are failing. He wants us all to rely on the government for everything we do. Of course, Clinton called him out on not giving the public any confidence that the economy would turn around and a day or so later obama gave his rah, rah speech. It was quite funny when he talked about corp. jets. You know your buddy, Nancy has one! It was also quite interesting to listen to him talk about waste when there is 9,000 earmarks in the latest bill. Do you see a problem in any of this, David? What about his promise to go through the bills line by line and take earmarks out? Do you call spending money to keep the pig smell down an earmark or will that create jobs or…………………………something? You can’t tell me he is honest and doing the right things for America. However, he knows that most Americans are stupid, and they won’t notice what he is doing as long as he can give great speeches. He is right on that point! I’ll give him that!
  • JackieM
    <!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 <![endif]--> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:1.0in; mso-footer-margin:1.0in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->
     
    No, David, because obama instilled fear into the nation without addressing a major problem—small businesses that are failing. He wants us all to rely on the government for everything we do. Of course, Clinton called him out on not giving the public any confidence that the economy would turn around and a day or so later obama gave his rah, rah speech. It was quite funny when he talked about corp. jets. You know your buddy, Nancy has one! It was also quite interesting to listen to him talk about waste when there is 9,000 earmarks in the latest bill. Do you see a problem in any of this, David? What about his promise to go through the bills line by line and take earmarks out? Do you call spending money to keep the pig smell down an earmark or will that create jobs or…………………………something? You can’t tell me he is honest and doing the right things for America. However, he knows that most Americans are stupid, and they won’t notice what he is doing as long as he can give great speeches. He is right on that point! I’ll give him that!
  • davidwwalters
    HWStoned
    -T
    he joke seems to be between you ears!
    Lemme break it down for you.....
    You take a loan that is not rated so high.  You bundle them all together....rate them AAA and sell them for a profit.  Now can you see that?  Or is that 10Watt Bulb burned out?
  • davidwwalters
    .....now, as the seemingly AAA bundled loans start to foreclose (as sub-prime loans are sure to do.....remember they really arent AAA loans as they are bundled, but sub-prime), all they investors that bought this on a margin start the house of cards tumbling down!  Nice, nice, very nice!
  • davidwwalters
    ok, all you finance wizards and Einsteins! Have a good night....going to a music session tomorrow, but if you have any questions, ill be glad to school ya!
  • JackieM
    David--if people werent smart enough to understand what they were signing then they should not have bought a house in the first place.  this meltdown would have never happened.  now i blame ALL involved but people need to stop claiming ignorance!  it is not an excuse!  i was 21 when had my first little house built.  i didnt have anything but a high school diploma and still understood the documents i was signing because i researched them and asked questions beforehand.  so personal responsibility means nothing nowadays i suppose?  so in my case greedy folks couldnt have taken advantage of me if they wanted to.
  • Michael
    Dont get worked up over David.  Ironically those with the least knowledge tend to be the most adamant,  an overcompensating feature of sorts.  That nice nice scenerio you mentioned David is because Fannie and Freddie bundle together for sale on the secondary market...and we come full circle to the fact they do not originate...blah blah blah is what you are reading by this point so I am going to cut this short.

    The big problem came on the same day that Obama announced his "housing plan".  While he was giving his speech, word came down from Fannie that all condo projects had to be 70% presold in order to be "warranted" and sold on the secondary.  That is a massive problem for all new, especially large, condo projects that are being built today.  We will see the collapse of one project after another nationwide as buyers will be less able to secure financing.  This leaves portfolio loans (which not many banks are doing anymore) or cash buyers.  This is the next wave I am afraid.
  • Titus Hunt
    how about cds?  i am very familiar with them and am afraid this will be the next crisis.  that market has not even been addressed.
  • davidwwalters
    << Ironically those with the least knowledge tend to be the most adamant,  an overcompensating feature of sorts.>>
    -Youre correct on the point that i have the "least knowledge"......ill give you that.  I have no economics degree as you do. Yet it IS true that all the experts employed by the former Bush administration failed to foresee the problem or head it off.  Why?  Blaming Nancy Pelosi&Harry Reid, Bill Clinton(even though he signed GLBA into law) or even (as some here stated....)Jimmy Carter, negates Bushs role as a leader, and truely culpable in this disaster.
    You posed the question as to how Sen. Phil Gramms infamous Gramm-Leach_Bliley Act contributed to the present crisis and i answered you. 
    It must bother you that one so un-schooled in the science of economics has any insight into the crisis, so you attempt to cut me off at the knees....a typical ploy when someone is worried that the message is right, so we go after the messanger.
    <<That nice nice scenerio you mentioned David is because Fannie and Freddie bundle together for sale on the secondary market...and we come full circle to the fact they do not originate...>>
    -EURIKA! AND WHAT WAS THE MECHANISM THAT ALLOWED fREDDIE&fANNIE to bundle and sell these sub-prime loans?
    These were poorly rated loans on their own.....
    -Yet, when they were bundled, they magically became AAA rated.  How did that magic occur?
    You cannot answer my question, because you know i know what i am talking about, and it pisses you off.
    Yes, i am unschooled, but i aint stupid my friend.  It is really clear that something was going on that allowed these bad loans that are the child of Freddie&Fanny to be sold in such numbers.  Yes, i understand that loans were made to people with low incomes......and that these risky loans were made by banks all over the nation.   Why?   Did government agents hold a gun to bankers heads forcing them to make these loans?  Or was there a way that their(the bankers) greed found an outlet to take advantage of a situation?
    There has to be a mechanism that allows poorly rated loans to become an AAA comodity, and you are either unable or unwilling to explain this.
  • davidwwalters
    << Ironically those with the least knowledge tend to be the most adamant,  an overcompensating feature of sorts.>>
    -Youre correct on the point that i have the "least knowledge"......ill give you that.  I have no economics degree as you do. Yet it IS true that all the experts employed by the former Bush administration failed to foresee the problem or head it off.  Why?  Blaming Nancy Pelosi&Harry Reid, Bill Clinton(even though he signed GLBA into law) or even (as some here stated....)Jimmy Carter, negates Bushs role as a leader, and truely culpable in this disaster.
    You posed the question as to how Sen. Phil Gramms infamous Gramm-Leach_Bliley Act contributed to the present crisis and i answered you. 
    It must bother you that one so un-schooled in the science of economics has any insight into the crisis, so you attempt to cut me off at the knees....a typical ploy when someone is worried that the message is right, so we go after the messanger.
    <<That nice nice scenerio you mentioned David is because Fannie and Freddie bundle together for sale on the secondary market...and we come full circle to the fact they do not originate...>>
    -EURIKA! AND WHAT WAS THE MECHANISM THAT ALLOWED fREDDIE&fANNIE to bundle and sell these sub-prime loans?
    These were poorly rated loans on their own.....
    -Yet, when they were bundled, they magically became AAA rated.  How did that magic occur?
    You cannot answer my question, because you know i know what i am talking about, and it pisses you off.
    Yes, i am unschooled, but i aint stupid my friend.  It is really clear that something was going on that allowed these bad loans that are the child of Freddie&Fanny to be sold in such numbers.  Yes, i understand that loans were made to people with low incomes......and that these risky loans were made by banks all over the nation.   Why?   Did government agents hold a gun to bankers heads forcing them to make these loans?  Or was there a way that their(the bankers) greed found an outlet to take advantage of a situation?
    There has to be a mechanism that allows poorly rated loans to become an AAA commodity, and you are either unable or unwilling to explain this.
  • Dora
    http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2009/02/16/...
  • davidwwalters
    Dora(119).....
    An apt description to republicans idea of partisanship with respect to the train wreck economic mess Obama  has inherited!
  • davidwwalters
    -For all my conservative friends who do not like to be bothered by having to actually defend your positions, may i suggest noleftturnz, because they definitely will not let me post there.  It may be more to your intellectual liking.
    http://noleftturnz.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/usi...
    (-forget it Dora, you surely aint gettin posted on that site!)
  • Dora
    thanks david.  it really does not matter which conservative site one views:  same ... same... same.
    their hero speaks:

    Limbaugh: "The dirty little secret ... is that every Republican in this country wants Obama to fail, but none of them have the guts to say so; I am willing to say it"
    Limbaugh: "I want the stimulus package to fail," "I want everything hes doing to fail."

     
    nice. 
    very patriotic.
    i havent seen articles or bumper stickers by republicans of sound mind (i know that there are some) saying that rush does not speak for them or the republican party. 
    this is a sad statement on how difficult it will be to address the items that require immediate attention.
  • Dora
    before any of you get your underwear in a knot - i have yet to locate any widely read website that does not place things to suit their point of view exclusively.  this includes drudge, huffington post, daily kos,  world net daily, and many, many others. ...but then again,  these are intended to be partisan sites.  there is no objection on my part to any of you who visit these with regularity-  the objection comes when you represent their opinions and/or misrepresentations as facts.
    huffington post is just as guilty as others by gross sensationalism rather than simply stating the facts... let interpretations/impressions  of these facts be done via editorial elsewhere - not within the body of the reporting. this is not just a problem with huffington post, you can include CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox.  they are all guilty of having an inability to separate news from opinion.
  • davidwwalters
    Dora(122)....
    Y
    es,
    it peeves me more than a little  that Mortimer(Rush) wraps himself in a flag, yet espouses such anti-American rhetoric!
    Limbaugh: "The dirty little secret ... is that every Republican in this country wants Obama to fail, but none of them have the guts to say so; I am willing to say it"
    -Say it Rush!  You are baring yourself, showing ALL, that it isnt the United States of America that you love, it is your conduit for you silly warped ideas(the republican party)......-That you hold dear.
    I wanted NOTHING more than success when Bush went before Congress&The American People asking for war against Iraq, knowing full well that if Bush Jr. did pull this off successfully(invade Iraq, find WMDs, and leave in victory).......wed see a republican majority for some time.
    Yes indeed....it is a DIRTY LITTLE SECRET!
    How do my republican friends here stand on such an anti-American statement?
  • davidwwalters
    Michael(116).....
    <<WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- The federal law encouraging banks to lend to low- and moderate-income customers is not to blame for the current housing crisis, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said in a recent letter to a member of Congress.




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    Bernanke, responding to a letter from Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., said the Feds experience with 1977s Community Reinvestment Act - including data on the subprime loan market - "runs counter to the charge that CRA was at the root of, or otherwise contributed in any substantive way to, the current mortgage difficulties."

    Bernanke, continuing in the Nov. 25 letter to Menendez, said declining home values, inadequate risk management of complex financial instruments, and lending models that favored quantity over quality all contributed to the current problems.

    "The available evidence to date, however, does not lend support to the argument that CRA is to blame for causing the subprime loan crisis," Bernanke wrote.
    The CRA has come under fire from some conservative lawmakers for being a major factor in the current financial crisis. Proponents of the law note it does not require banks to make risky loans, and instead directs federal banking regulators such as the Fed to encourage banks to lend to underserved areas in a manner that is "consistent with safe and sound operation.">>
    -By Michael R. Crittenden, Dow Jones Newswires

    Im not the only one to disagree with your instructional assessments.....:)
  • P.R.E.Z.
    I think that its telling that all of the liberals that come to this blog do so out of hate. Simply to spit verbal vitriol. Then they wonder why conservatives are not even paying attention to what theyre saying.

    It is a common attitude among a vast amount of liberals. Their so called tolerance is thrown right out the window when it comes to conservatives. They dont give lucid arguments. They dont show respect and common decency. They simply use vulgar language and throw out a bunch of bitterness and hate.

    This is on something as simple as conservatives using Twitter.

    Their prejudice and political racism knows no bounds. Theyre proud, boasters, emotionally out of control, glorying in the hate they spread.

    Because the conservatives are using Twitter.

    Talking to these people is a lost cause. They WANT to hate. They WANT to criticize anything that a conservative says.

    Pitiful....but expected.

    P.R.E.Z.
    The Truth Manifesto
  • davidwwalters
    PREZ(126).......
    <<
    Talking to these people is a lost cause. They WANT to hate. They WANT to criticize anything that a conservative says
    .>>
    Me?  I criticize what is NOT true.  I come here to engage conservatives to understand their positions and to expose those who espouse positions that arent true. "
    -"Emotionally out of control?
    " Thats a broad generality. 
    Talk about "lost causes", or maybe self-fulfilling prophecies......maybe your preconceived notions lead others to snap back at you.   Did you ever think that an emotionally charged response to your comments is to be expected?
  • Dora
    PREZ,

    neither david nor i have ever been vulgar.  this is not in my vocab- and from davids even responses,  he  appears to be rational and factual despite the ever -present untrue statements put forth here. 
    progressives, liberals etc that come to this site do so for a variety of reasons i expect... not the least of which is to make an attempt at correcting misrepresentations that occur here with such regularity- as well as to state their own opinion to demonstrate that not all people can be painted with the broad brush that people such as yourself, PREZ, like to do.
    you, sir, should have the brains enough to understand that there is something of value in every human being- despite their political leanings.   if you cannot acknowledge this, at least- your bitter attitude as reflected in the post above will continue...and it does not serve you well.
    many of your fellow conservatives here have side-stepped issues and facts and instead chose to level personal attacks on me, david,  harrysmom, and any number of individuals that have been shown to be lacking substantially factual information. 
    a few things that seem to escape your attention, prez:
    liberals have as much love for this country as you do.
    liberals understand the constitution and strive to protect it constantly.
    liberals are not out to silence you or your radio shows.
    liberals have morals just as you do.
    liberals know that not everyone has bootstraps of their own.
    liberals are all religions and non-religions.
    liberals believe that if someone needs a hand and you have one, lend it.
    liberals are short, tall, black, white, hispanic, asian, freckled, albino, left handed, right handed, straight, gay, transgender, fat, thin, rich, poor, middle class, entrepeneurs, blue collar workers, CEOs, union members, retired, and unemployed. 
    in other words, PREZ- we are just like you.  we all want the same thing, essentially... we just have different maps that we believe will take us there.
  • Dora
    it missed a line in the copy/paste (required in advance because often intended posts here are lost with performing
    this task)...should have read:
    "...any number of individuals here have been  attacked personally when a conservative  here has been shown to be lacking substantially factual information. "
  • Titus Hunt
    PREZ--i can say that any liberal that comes on this site and calls us bible thumpers and other unnecessary names are spreading hate, especially when the topics that were being discussed had nothing to do with religion.  so yes, they do spread hate.
  • Titus Hunt
    just to clarify, UC has suggested i use this ID because right now it is working.  im having trouble posting again.  JackieM
  • Titus Hunt
    Thank goodness there are conservatives to set the record straight on all of the propaganda that comes from the liberals.  one that comes to mind is the idea Rush wants the president to fail!  liberals just intentionally took his comments out of context and twisted them around to their benefit.  i dont even listen to Rushs program and dont have a clue what station he is on in my area.  However, it was all over the news.  so while channel surfing, i saw him in the clip saying this and immediately understood what he said (because i actually listened).   however, there are those that either lied or have a few floors missing and are incapable of comprehending plain English.  I will leave that judgment up to a professional in that field to decide based on the individual.  Rush is right when it comes to how great the American people are and how we should be the ones to ensure our own successes.  We can do this as long as we have limited government.  obama is setting the American people up for failure and we wont be able to thrive under his agenda.  so i too want obama to fail as long as he operates under his current plan.  I agree that we dont need government to run our lives, and obama and his merry men and women are doing just that by their policies.  We need small businesses in this country to thrive and dont need to be dependent on government for employment or to dictate our healthcare.  obama is ensuring small businesses continue to struggle/close their doors.  the governments role needs to be limited to encourage that American ingenuity that has made us great for decades.  to stifle this is a mistake and that is exactly what obama is doing.  the government should put policies in place to allow fair trade and businesses to operate fairly and competitvely without lobbyists influencing Washington.  but, oh no contrary to what obama said in his campaign, he is not keeping the lobbyists and their influence out of his cabinet!  to say that conservative policies have failed is a lie.  we need the right mix of policies to be successful and EVERYONE understand this but some refuse to admit it because it does not fit their agenda!  regulations have to be put into place as the market changes, i.e, cds and hedgefund policies.  for those who are familiar with these securities, you understand the complexities and how policies need to be changed as new instruments are created.  if the right balance of policies are not put into place, there willl be problems as we know.  so to continue to lie and say our principals have failed is just stupid at best.  i have only seen exerpts from Rushs speech at the CPAC but want to hear the whole speech.  does anyone know if it is on the net yet?  from what little i saw, it was awesome and he was right, but i want to hear the whole speech to ensure i get the whole concept before making up my mind.  however, he is not the leader in our party but others like to make up lies and say he is because it fits their agenda and spreads their hatred around to those that will allow it.  if he is the leader, what is his official position and when was the election?  There are folks out there like me who dont want to be limited by only having choices to work for the government.  True Americans want to have choices and live without government in their faces.  We want to be the ones paying for the education of our children and are proud that we work hard to ensure we are responsible while making good decisions for our families.  obama is trying to take this away!  that is a mistake!
  • Titus Hunt
    it is funny that some liberals say they are not all the same, but they love to point out how we are.  now i have seen that most liberals are the same in a lot of ways but not all.  if we are all different, everyone would be against obamas policies.  those who cant figure out why have problems.  republicans also understand what the words "created equal" means and that is built into our principals and separates us from democrats.  I know what argument will possibly come next and it is a non-issue.
  • Titus Hunt
    having trouble posting again!

    it is funny that some liberals say they are not all the same, but they love to point out how we are.  now i have seen that most liberals are the same in a lot of ways but not all.  if we are all different, everyone would be against obamas policies.  those who cant figure out why have problems.  republicans also understand what the words "created equal" means and that is built into our principals and separates us from democrats.  I know what argument will possibly come next and it is a non-issue.
  • Titus Hunt
    im having trouble posting again!

    it is funny that some liberals say they are not all the same, but they love to point out how we are.  now i have seen that most liberals are the same in a lot of ways but not all.  if we are all different, everyone would be against obamas policies.  those who cant figure out why have problems.  republicans also understand what the words "created equal" means and that is built into our principals and separates us from democrats.  I know what argument will possibly come next and it is a non-issue.
  • Dora
    "obama is ensuring small businesses continue to struggle/close their doors.  the governments role needs to be limited to encourage that American ingenuity that has made us great for decades."

    this statement of yours, titus/jackie- indicates that you either have NOT listened to a single word obama has said or had decided well in advance of his words that is going to be your belief.  go back and read what obama has said about small businesses.  go back and read what obama says about american ingenuity.  go back and you will see that he said exactly opposite that which you claim he said or is proposing.
    additionally, i listened to the entire rush blustering yesterday- it was carried on CNN.   you see, i am not afraid to listen to the voices of others like some here.
    furthermore, jackie alias titus, this constant diatribe of yours and others here calling any liberal or progressive "haters" is not only woefully untrue- it serves no positive  or constructive purpose other than to demonstrate just how closed minded you are.  i would work on that if i were you.  if you continue to prove me correct, i dont mind pointing that out to you.
    regarding bible thumpers... any point that you decide is valid because your bible says so is not going to work so why not try some actual facts instead of injecting your personal religious views to justify your selective law making process.
  • Titus Hunt
    name calling is what you do best, Dora!  you called me a bible thumper and everyone here neocons without merit.  you dont have a clue what my religious beliefs are and HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGMENT THEM because as you point out to others IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!  that discussion should be off base unless the subject is specifically on religion.  even then there are limits.  that is common sense.  however, if you are talking about my morales and values, that is a different story.  it is obvious, that im on the high road compared to some!  you call that condescending, and ill point out that if the shoe fits......  and if it doenst, the comment is not meant for you.  you decide.  you come to this conservative site to try to cause a fight, but it wont work.  you dont come here to hear others views and learn.  yes, im smart enough to do what you guys dont, which is LISTEN and then watch for the actions.  i heard obama and he is not following through with his talk in his policies.  but then again he has never ran a business or anything else for that matter.  see im one to not give a damn about rhetoric.  i like to see the results.  talk is cheap and that is the case here.  if you think obamas solutions to small businesses will keep them in business and help them thrive, you need to go to business school or get out and actually work in corporate America for a while and you will change your tune.  his rhetoric for hope and change is for the stupid.  smart folks want to actually see it.  right now his ideas for hope and change are not going to work.  but hey, tell the unemployed workers they will eventually have to pay higher prices for food and clothing because of his policies and see how that goes over.  economists from both sides are in agreement with that!  so yeah im sure business owners will prosper from obamas words and his insufficient plan for them in his policies!  ha!
  • Titus Hunt
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    it is funny that some liberals say they are not all the same, but they love to point out how we are.  now i have seen that most liberals are the same in a lot of ways but not all.  if we are all different, everyone would be against obamas policies.  those who cant figure out why have problems.  republicans also understand what the words "created equal" means and that is built into our principals and separates us from democrats.  I know what argument will possibly come next and it is a non-issue.
  • Titus Hunt
    obamas definition of raising taxes on the "rich" is people and businesses making over $250k/yr.  this will happen in about a year or two.  please keep in mind the current state of our economy.  how many people on this site think that that is not a problem?  who thinks raising taxes on people who own businesses who are a subS corps is not a problem?  how many people think that businesses will not construct current business plans that account for the higher taxes in a few years?
  • simonesdad2009
    Who is the leader of the conservative movement at the moment?
    Who would you (conservatives) like to see run for president the next time around?

    (These are serious questions.)
  • Titus Hunt
    I really would look to Michael Steele right now as our leader personally.  However, I have always liked Mitt Romney for the running in 2012.  He has the business and experience and understands economics.  that is what we are lacking now but need more than ever in this country.  He also understands the auto industry and how the unions are in bed with Washington and will stand up to them without regard to the politics.  Hopefully, now people understand that the unions are not good for our country the way they are structured now.  He has the guts,  experience and common sense to stand up for our country and to say no to earmarks and pork while keeping our debt down.  He has enough of a knowledge base to be an effective leader while being tough when he needs to.  He is not enough of an insider to just go along with the party if the party was wrong and would take on the idiots--pelosi, reid, dodd and frank.
  • davidwwalters72
    Limbaugh: "The dirty little secret ... is that every Republican in this country wants Obama to fail, but none of them have the guts to say so; I am willing to say it"
    Limbaugh: "I want the stimulus package to fail," "I want everything hes doing to fail."
    Jackie....(136)
    <<liberals just intentionally took his(Rushs) comments out of context and twisted them around to their benefit.>>
    -W
    hat
    exactly is Rush trying to say?  Its fairly simple to see that he wants Obama to fail, and cause all sort of suffering to occur just so his party and occupy the White House and control Congress.  It seems to me that he places his party above the welfare of our nation.
    Rush, and others like him see conservatives, and by extension the republican party as the only real Americans.
    << True Americans want to have choices and live without government in their faces.>>
    So, am I a true American, if i dont support the policies you support?  Actually, that kind of thinking is more than just a bit hateful.
  • Titus Hunt
    David--you are incorrect.  A lot of Americans do not want the government to intervene when there are other choices that are better for our country.  True Americans want freedom, David.  We dont want government to decide that the only jobs we can get due to obamas bad policies are to work for the government.  he wants all of us to be too dependent on government.  that goes against every belief system we have.  Rush wants obamas policies to fail so that our country will have the chance to grow again.  he is correct in what he is saying. obamas policies will ensure we suffer including higher prices that we pay for everything for years to come.  thanks to liberals and a few conservatives that act like liberals, government doesnt know when to butt out and let people thrive.  the government also doesnt understand its role anymore and wont put the policies into place to encourage small businesses to grow.  that would be cheaper than throwing money away, David.  the government doesnt manage money well and should give money to us the taxpayers instead of deciding what they think is right.  now i believe in infrastructure projects as long as they are overseen by a bipartisan group made up of folks who cant be bought and understand business and people who are outside of Washington!  that would be the only way i would trust our money would be spent wisely.  so Rush is about as American as they come and loves this country and the foundation upon which it was built.  now if you guys want to change it as you are trying to now, there will always be a fight for what is right.  So i want that idiot obama to fail also and am proud of it.
  • Dora
    jackie- if you feel more cozy around only those that hold your same point of view- perhaps it is you that needs to re-evaluate your presence here.   i am not afraid of hearing your point of view.
    you seem to feel threatened by those who dare to dispute your assessment on any number of topics.
    for those of you who have made comments as to why a liberal is even here to post on this site-  just what is it about freedom of speech that bothers you so?  are your convictions so fragile that they cannot withstand the scrutiny of others?
    once again,  regarding bible thumpers... any point that you decide is valid because your bible says so is not going to work ... we do not create legislation based upon your own personal religious beliefs...or mine.   period.  jackie, a bible-thumper is an in-your-face religious fanatic who wants to promote their particular religious beliefs through legislation....and say things like "we are a christian nation"...  no, jackie, we are not. 
    abortion, gay rights, stem cell research, sex education, evolution,  prayer in the public schools, promotion of christian biblical observances on public grounds... these are all areas where those with a particular religious belief have elected to elevate exclusively - their own beliefs ...above all others.  sorry jackie.  it is unconstitutional and will not wash.
  • Titus Hunt
    Dora--i think you have a major problem that is too big to solve here.  i dont have a problem with people having differing opinions but as i and others have pointed out you come here to pick a fight and not debate.  fortunately, most people in the US are Christians so it can be said that we are a Christian nation, but everyone is free to worship as they please.  i stand on my values and principals and dont discuss religion in 99% of my posts so get off it!  you are the pot calling the kettle black because you dislike the conservative values and beliefs.  that is your problem and you should expect to see a lot of conservative views on this blog because that is what the title says!  stop spewing obamas rhetoric because it is a broken record and weve heard it.  unfortunately, there is no substance behind it.  you are so judgmental about issues you know nothing about.
  • davidwwalters72
    Jackie(150)......
    <<.....
    A lot of Americans do not want the government to intervene when there are other choices that are better for our country.
    >>
    -My point in (149) was that Rush was NOT taken out of context, and that his idea is that ONLY conservative ideas are truly American......everyone else is un-American.  As you can imagine, when a draft dodger says these things, this veteran bristles a bit(.....understatement  ;)  )......

    <<
    We dont want government to decide that the only jobs we can get due to obamas bad policies are to work for the government.
    >>
    -The only jobs?  Come on now.....your a business woman, and you understand that a person with a paycheck is more stimulating to the economy than one with none(....like in Bobbys Jindals Louisiana).  Yes, its not what we want forever, but as more and more jobs are lost we need Americans out there with with money to spend, which has a ripple effect on the economy.
    <<.........he wants all of us to be too dependent on
    government
    ...........>>
    -No, this is simply not true.  The jobs put forth in the stim plan is a stop gap measure intended to tide us over until the recession ends.

    <<the government doesnt manage money well and should give money to us the taxpayers instead of deciding what they think is right. >>
    -The private sector isnt as efficient as we have been led to believe, to wit.....
    the present banking&wall street failures.

    <<so Rush is about as American as they come and loves this country and the foundation upon which it was built.>>
    -No.  If he was such a great American, hed have served when his chance came in 1970.  He opted NOT to serve.  He is simply an opportunist, abusing the freedoms so many died to protect.
  • davidwwalters72
    Twitter This!(....trying to stay on topic  :)
    -In the context of the idea of "redistribute the wealth", i have on several occasions quoted these passages:
    "All the believers were together and had everything in common.  Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need." 
    -Acts 2:44-45
    "All the believers were one in heart and mind.  No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared EVERYTHING they had."
    -Acts 4:32
    Jackie states in (152).....
    <<
    fortunately, most people in the US are Christians so it can be said that we are a Christian nation.....>>
    -In
    two different verses Luke describes the church of James(Jesus brother)...
    he makes a point of making sure we know this fact.  No, it is not taken out of context to see that Luke was telling us that the church founded on Jesuss principals was in fact something like a socialist commune.
    Since we are a Christian nation relying on Christian principals, the idea that some form of wealth redistribution is unchristian is wrong.
  • Titus Hunt
    David:  all of the Christianity points have been made before and it is not up to the government to "spread the wealth."  If i want to give something to someone, it is voluntary.  if the government takes it from me to redistribute, it is stealing!  you can argue your point until the cows come home and it wont change my mind.  entitlement programs are destroying this country and so are the people who believe in them.  Yes, the private sector does a lot better job at managing money than the government.  you have your thoughts only on big business and those are not the majority of businesses in America.  however, Americans will not be able to stimulate the economy enough to make up for the global effect and the higher taxes.  that is what is so funny about this whole argument.  we are in a global economy.  obama understands this also but knows how gullible most people are.  so government needs to do its job to make policies that actually help the businesses thrive instead of trying to destroy them.  it also needs to get the hell out of our business and let this economy work.  you are wrong on the idea that the jobs are only to tide us over until the recession end because the government is making it harder for the recession to end.  a lot of this money will not be out to help us for over a year, David.  that is too long.  obama has lost his opportunity to "change" this country for the better.  i think he is doing what he set out to do, which is to make this country fall apart.  Rush is very clear in what he said and i understood him perfectly and he is right.  i dont want obamas ideas or his policies because they are wrong for this country.  so yes, i want him to fail too.  his idea of success is bigger government, higher taxes for ALL and the citizens dependent on the government for their existence.  it is power, David.  that is easy to see.  everytime i see obama on TV or hear his voice, i get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.  my instincts have NEVER failed me!  i didnt like clinton but never had those feelings toward him.  I happened to not mind listening to him and didnt disagree on EVERYTHING he said.  i have no opinions on the draft since i was a toddler.
  • Titus Hunt
    David--Christ is the Church so people should spread the wealth through their Churches and community.  the word government is not in the picture thank goodness!  government redistribution = stealing unless it is voluntary.
  • Titus Hunt
    what is funny here is that most people can judge whether the redistribution of wealth should happen because the majority of the people judging this issue arent the ones affected.  hmmm!  if their pockets were affected, it may be a different story, especially since we know the government throws our money away and doesnt follow through with promises.  However, contrary to what obamas and his idiot followers believe, some small business owners dont usually have much left to live on and have to file under the SubS corp.   i know business owners who file under SubS who make around $40k to $50k/yr after it is all said and done.  now if you have a family of four, they are struggling as is.  so the moral of this story is that there are families that fall into this category that obama is raising taxes on that will suffer tremendously.  but obama and his puppets dont really give a damn!  so let obama take more out of their pockets and that will be another reason among many that he wont serve a second term.  i look forward to that!  by the way, another lie in the liberal community is that the "investment class" can afford higher capital gains taxes.  this is quite a stupid comment since they are including people who invest such as teachers, factory workers, administrative assistants, construction workers, and most retirees.  so let me see--take from struggling people.  SMART!  i would hope there are a lot of folks finding ways to take their money overseas.  i dont know anything about it but i hope they are doing all they can to protect the assets most have worked extremely hard for from this government who is intent in taking more than their fair share away, especially since there are a lot of Americans who pay NO TAXES!  i would have sympathy for this debacle we are in if everyone paid their fair share and we didnt have people like peloisi, dodd, reid, frank and obama ensuring our money will be wasted!  the people in California are proof of this because they are moving out of state.  GOOD FOR THEM!
  • davidwwalters72
    .....in reference to(154),Titus stated:
    << .....all of the Christianity points have been made before and it is not up to the government to "spread the wealth.">>
    -But didnt you say this is a "Christian nation"?  Shouldnt we seek
    to be more Christ-like?  In the sense of WWJD, it would seem that
    we should emulate the social structure of the first church
    in Jerusalem.
    <<.......it is voluntary.  if the government takes it from me to redistribute, it is stealing!>>
    -Had not the Jewish revolt failed in 70CE, it might have been that this very church described in Acts would have BEEN the government of that former Roman province known as Palestine. 
    <<so government needs to do its job to make policies that
    actually help the businesses thrive instead of trying to
    destroy them>>
    -If the administration just sits back and tries ONLY the policies youd like to see (..........less regulation, tax cuts for the wealthy), just what businesses would thrive if nearly everyone has no job.  Who would be able to buy anything at all?
  • Titus Hunt
    well David, Christian nation = churches not government.  the government is a non-religious entity so you cant compare.  if the administration kept within certain boundaries, this country would thrive!  who said less regulation??????  i didnt.  my belief is that there should be the right amount of regulation in the areas that are necessary--there needs to be a balance!  jobs would be created as a result of the government doing its job and the American people doing ours!  The government will not solve all of our problems!
  • Michael
    "Bernanke, continuing in the Nov. 25 letter to Menendez, said declining home values, inadequate risk management of complex financial instruments, and lending models that favored quantity over quality all contributed to the current problems."


    Care to copy and paste my comments next to Bernankes? I also sited declining home values which did not allow those who took ARMs that reset to exit out of their current mortgage into a refi.  I also pointed to the 2 specific acts that allowed for the "complex financial" instruments, one in 1980 and the other in 82.  Then if you listen to Maxine Waters approximately 5 minutes into this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN31-nKndg8 you will hear her say that under the leadership of Franklin Reins, "the GSEs Exceed the housing goals" 
    Those housing goals were primarily to subprime borrowers who defaulted at a rate 6.5 times higher and forclosed at a rate 10 times higher.
  • Michael
    "Care to copy and paste my comments next to Bernankes?"

    For all of you home gamers, compare it for yourself....I went into more detail though, I should get Bernankes job!
    Post #153

    http://www.urbanconservative.com/2009/02/04/oba...
  • simonesdad2009
    Come on UC.  Not a peep on inauguration day and now nothing after CPAC?  At least get one of your flunkies to post something.  Rush has given you your marching orders.  Now blindly fall in line please.
  • Jesus
    OMG THIS MEANS REPUBLICANS ARE BETTER THAN DEMOCRATS
  • davidwwalters72
    <<........inadequate risk management of complex financial instruments, and lending models that favored quantity over quality all contributed to the current problems.>>
    "....inadequate risk management of complex financial instruments....."
    -
    what does this mean?  Something to do with insurance companies (like AIG maybe?)  HOW DID THIS HAPPEN I WONDER?
    The Commodity Futures Modernization Act, and Gramm-Leach-Blilely
    certainly had no effect on this, huh?  Do you care to defend that position?

    What have you been saying in this entire exchange?  You and others keep stressing The Community Reinvestment Act is the reason for our economic demise and not Phil Gramms work to  "protect financial institutions from overregulation" and "position our financial services industries to be world leaders into the new century." -Phil Gramm, arguing on the Senate floor to hail the inclusion of The Commodity Futures Modernization Act into a spending bill.....
    -Nothing like some pork for the financial industry, and i sure hope he was rewarded upon retirement.

    <<
    Care to copy and paste my comments next to Bernankes?"
    For all of you home gamers, compare it for yourself....I went into more detail though, I should get Bernankes job!>>- Michael

    "Bernanke,
    ........ said the Feds experience with 1977s Community Reinvestment Act - including data on the subprime loan market - "runs counter to the charge that CRA( Community Reinvestment Act )
    was at the root of, or otherwise contributed in any substantive way to, the current mortgage difficulties."
  • davidwwalters72
    simonesdad2009.....
    Watch out!  They have "EXPERTS".....
  • davidwwalters72
    jUST THINK....Had John McCain won the election instead of Obama, we could have had Phil Gramm at Treasury....
  • Michael
    Complex financial instruments is another term used for exotic mortgages. I/os, balloons, stated incomes etc. These were made possible back in 1980 and for reasons (as I said before) that could and are being made today that may see these same policies reinstated.  Look up the default rate on these types of loans.  Look up the default rate on subprimes in general.

    Now here is where you misunderstand me.  I am not saying that the CRA alone was the cause.  I am not saying that any one type of mortgage was the cause.  Reread, and you will see that I am saying resets on loans that made perfect sense at the time to a buyer whos primary concern was to pay the least amount out of pocket at the table and the least amount monthly, regardless of future risk, was the beginning of the problem.

    So go back, reread my comments, show me where I am changing my position.  Copy & Paste.
  • Michael
    jUST THINK....Had John McCain won the election instead of Obama, we could have had Phil Gramm at Treasury....

    Instead we have a guy who is over control of the IRS who cant even pay his own taxes.  Dodged a bullet there I guess huh.
  • Titus Hunt
    Just think if obama had a sound plan that instilled investor confidence, the stock market would not be declining like this.  where is the nut, geithner?  he has disappeared in a time of crisis.  what a moron!  this administration has failed us!  three out of four people in the US invest in the markets in one form or another so if obama truly gave a damn about this country or its people, he would have made positive policies that would help instead of hurt us.  of course, obama, the jerk, has decided that people who make over $250k dont need tax deductions for charitable giving so charities will now suffer tremendously.  notice the term idiot has been downgraded to jerk now as the result of the stupid, stupid actions and inactions of what some call a "leader."  that jerk knows that some organizations completely depend on private donations because of the government restrictions so they are going to be screwed out of helping people now!  people who are making money will hold on to it because they dont know what that dictator will do next.  of course, obamas administration has an answer for everything and said that the government has made room for this money in their budget.  so i guess dictatorship comes to mind when the government will decide how our money will be divided up to the charities?  the "rich" folks who are the ONLY ones who have money especially in this economy.  obama and his supporters are going to ensure these folks dont give.  NOW REMEMBER MY PREDICTIONS IN MY EARLY POSTS BACK IN OCTOBER & NOVEMBER.  they are now proving to be true once again.  the folks making $250k or more are trying to find ways to cut their income to ensure they dont have to pay more taxes.  now liberals that is fair, fair, fair!  so what are you going to do to ensure YOU ALL earn the money to make up for an unfair tax policy.  hopefully, those who still have money left will figure out a way to hide it before obama and his supporters try to get their greedy hands on it!  obama WILL LOSE at in the end!  however, the victims of the liberals will be the innocent poor folks!  i dont feel sorry for anyone who voted for this jerk that gets caught is this mess but i do feel badly for those who suffer and didnt vote for him.  of course, some are too stupid to understand how their vote caused this mess!
  • Titus Hunt
    if you detect a sense of disgust in my posts, you are absolutely correct.  I care about this country and its people and cant stand to see this incompetent administration ruin this country as i knew it would.  there are some of us that knew this "person" would destroy our country, but the others were so hell bent on electing a used car salesman that offered "hope" and "change."  well those folks got what they elected all right!  he is not called a "leader" in any circles that i know.
  • simonesdad2009
    Well, well, well, Titus, arent you special.  You saw all of this coming.  I assume you are a, "I hope he fails" devotee.  Thats like hoping your childs stepfather is a lousy parent because you cant stand your ex-wife.  Its lunacy.  I dont believe a word you are saying.  You dont sound like someone who wants America to turn the corner.  You sound like someone determined to say, "I told you so."  You sound like someone reduced to name calling because you are embittered by an election result.  Try working on solutions if you have them.  Try organizing with like-minded people in your community.  Or is community organizer beneath your station?  Well, rally the over 250k set since you are so concerned about them.

    Take your admitted disgust and turn it into something positive for yourself, for this country.  Thats whats wrong with your side.  Plenty of bluster and provocative rhetoric but no ideas and no action.  Right now you are the annoying mother-in-law in the back seat trying to give directions.  Learn the lessons of Nov. 4th.  You have to come stronger and smarter than you have demonstrated so far.
  • Titus Hunt
    simonesdad2009--well all you have to do is look back at my posts and you will see what i predicted is coming true.  you are the reason im a republican and i thank God for it.  you and others sit on your throne and pretend to know what i am doing for what i believe in.  how do you know?  do you sit in my living room and watch?  as a matter of fact I am working to do my part for the good of this country.  I have solutions and so do most people that understand the pieces of the puzzle.  i am just not stupid enough to believe socialism is good for our country and do not want the government to control healthcare, banks, charity contributions, jobs and destroy capitalism.  unlike you and the rest of obamas puppets, i dont take Rushs words out of context and understood exactly what he meant.  so stop the rhetoric and propaganda because you are smart enough to understand what Rush said.  for those who are a little slower, there was a clip of him explaining it, which was no different than his original comments except he expanded on the same point.  i want obamas policies to fail and unlike his followers, im an independent thinker with expertise in economics and the markets.  his policies will and are destroying this country.  i really dont care about your negative attacks towards me because that is what you liberals do best.  you are following obama around and loving his every word while not really understanding what the effects his policies are going to be.  but hey, you know that middleclass tax deduction of about $13 whole dollars a week?  well that will be thrown out the door in higher energy costs.  im glad to know you and you family are safe and dont need the money in retirement funds because there are a lot of folks who are retired that live off that money.  so your buddys solutions are really going to hurt the poor, middleclass and elderly.  hope you can sleep at night! 
  • simonesdad2009
    If you need me in order to justify being a republican, your side is in worse shape than I thought, although Im flattered.  Youre right, I have no idea what you are doing in your living room but when I see someone of your self-proclaimed intelligence reduced to name calling and told you sos, that speaks volumes.  And make no mistake, I understand the content and context of Rushs comments.  Rush is a paid radio entertainer.  Hes good at what he does.  He makes a lot of money doing what he does which is great considering he never went to college.  He used to call KC Royals games on the radio.  Should he be the commissioner of baseball too?  The point is that hes doing what he has always done and you guys are so beaten down that youre actually buying it.  And Im no economic genius like you but $13 a week comes out to nearly $700 a year.  Bush gave us $300, right?

    And its nothing personal with you.  Ive been dealing with foaming at the mouth, know it all conservatives for a while now.  You are only distinguished by your obsession to tell anyone who will listen that you are some sort of market expert.  Kudos on your work so far.  Lets hope you have similar success in your living room meetings.  In fact, Im counting on it.
  • Michael
    "You dont sound like someone who wants America to turn the corner."

    There is a big difference in wanting America to turn the corner and America going off a cliff.  I do not want Obama to succeed in the latter, or anyone to succeed in turning America into a direction that jeopardizes its security, destroys its economy, alienates its people, and gives up its sovereignty.  Each one of these has been a route that this new administration has taken just in the past 2 months, so yes, I want him to fail in those policies that see the emboldening of terrorist in Afghanistan according to Hamid Karzi.  Yes, I want him to fail in those policies that turn our backs on Eastern European Allies with the bartering of a missle defense system in exchange for discontinued Russian support to Iran.  Yes, I want him to fail in the nationalazation of private enterprise in the US that has in part led to a 3000 point drop in the market from the time he took office-desimating the investments and retirements of Americans who rely on the success and strength of a free market system.  Yes, I want him to fail in the rhetoric that has seen many Americans, from the demonizing of hardworking, sucsessful entrepreneurs who have made this counrty to the hardworking, rural "bible and gun clingers" who are the backbone of this country.  Yes, I want him to fail in the joint bailout that you will be hearing more and more about over the coming months that will cause this country to relinquish its soverienty for the "hope" of economic security.

    I want Obama to fail in all of these.  I want America to succeed and they are mutually exclusive.
  • Michael
    "Come on UC.  Not a peep on inauguration day and now nothing after CPAC?  At least get one of your flunkies to post something.  Rush has given you your marching orders.  Now blindly fall in line please."
     
    "Blindly fall in line", "marching orders"  Yet all I am hearing is the same old talking points that have been laid out for you by the left.  You wonder why we havent done what you were expecting and try and start a conversation so you can get out some talking points.  David has a problem with honest debate tactics, Dora has a problem with bigotry, and you seem to have a problem with projecting your own faults on others.
     
    This stuff is getting old.  All of the liberals on UrbanConservative seem to exibit the same issues that most of us have dealt with in grade school.  Debate, honestly debate.  Any issue...you may find people willing to discuss, and perhaps ultimately agree or at least, respectfully disagree with your positions.  Try it.  Stop the rhetoric, start the debate.
  • rfburn
    We are not only out numbering them, we are being heard and having actual influence.
    #tcot is making great strides, we are bashed by the MSMs fairly often now, bashed on leftist web sites and blogs and organizing various events around the nations.

    This is being down by the way with out the $$ from a billionaire. "Moveon" seems effective for their cause dependent upon the $$ they get from their sugar daddy.
  • rfburn
    simonesdad2009,
    did you ever consider conservatives are not "following" Rush but that we actually agree with him?
  • davidwwalters72
    Michael(175)
    <<
    David has a problem with honest debate tactics,.....
    >>
    -Really?
    (laughing quite loudly)
    ....you keep ducking the question:  "Isnt de-regulation of the Banking,investment, and underwriting industries the root of our present economic mess?  You keep TRYING the continuation of this "fannie&freedie did it" ball rolling, but the argument keeps getting shot down, so you change subjects and make your accusations instead.
    <<.....Try it.  Stop the rhetoric, start the debate.>>
    -Yeah, i agree Michael.  The rhetoric begins with your ducking&obsfucation.  Duck the hard question and attack me is honest debate tactics?(-laughing....)
    (174)Michael
    <<
    I want Obama to fail in all of these.  I want America to succeed and they are mutually exclusive
    .>>
    America turned their back on the policies that got us into this current mess.  I keep driving this point home that Obama has inherited this mess.
    Change means NOT continuing the same foriegn policies that has cost our nation its reputation....Change means NOT continuing the de-regulation of banking, investments, and insurance that has cause the collaspe of the economic house of cards of the past eight years.
    So, your party of NO is irritated (as you seem to be), and comes up with no new ideas to solve our problems.  They, like you are banking on the failure of the new direction our country is embarking on just so they have a shot at re-establishing tax cuts ONLY for the wealthy, and more de-regulation of everything.  It seems as if these 2 principals arent mutually exclusive for your idea of a successful America. 
    Some of us(liberals) understood the change that came in 1980....and we have patiently given your ideas a chance.  They have failed(as you have failed in your attempts to defend your position), and now it is time to try something different.
  • Titus Hunt
    obama voted for the TARP and was in the senate for two years (not really).  so it is not as simple as he "inherited" this.  his hands are dirty also. 

    Thanks, Michael.  there is no actual debate because obamas policies are defenseless.  it does not take much to figure that out. 

    David--there dont have to be all new ideas to solve this problem.  this a a novel idea!  money could have been injected into this economy by April 1 if there had been tax cuts.  We would have seen them in paychecks immediately and the stimulus would have begun.  instead we wait and "hope" for something to happen.  now i dont count the $13/week.  that is a joke.  people could afford to buy cars if the tax cuts would have been substantial enough.  you know better!
  • davidwwalters72
    Titus(179)....
    <<
    so it is not as simple as he "inherited" this.  his hands are dirty also.>>
    -How so Jackie?  Was Obama making policy these past 8 years? 
    As i have laid out for Michael, it was the de-regulation of Banking, Investments, and Insurance that was passed just prior to Bush assuming office in 2001, that Bush seemed quite comfortable with that has led us to this economic crisis, not TARP, not The Community Reinvestment Act....
    <<.....this a a novel idea!  money could have been injected into this economy by April 1 if there had been tax cuts>>
    Tax cuts for who?  The ones (wealthy ones) making over $250,000/year?
    More more than just a tax cut(now i dont count the $13/week.  that is a joke) for those who really need relief, the stim plan(widely being accepted by most all governors, republicans&democrats).... allows states the money they need to keep state employees on the payroll and off the unemployment line...There are 7+ million already and it hasnt stopped yet.  Dont need $52/month?  Send it my way.....POBox 1874 28327.  Buying a car is easier with a job than when drawing an un-employment check.....and the un-employment check is only for a while.
  • Michael
    ."you keep ducking the question:  "Isnt de-regulation of the Banking,investment, and underwriting industries the root of our present economic mess?"

    Circular arguments and dismissing explanations that I have made time and time again while saying things you know for a fact are false as in I am ducking the question when in reality I have answered it time and time again for you on several post.  The answer is no if you are simply saying it was the GLB in 99.  This problem has many moving parts and they go back decades, but we have covered that havent we, time and time again.

    You could not pass a high school position paper with this type of rhetoric.

    "America turned their back on the policies that got us into this current mess.  I keep driving this point home that Obama has inherited this mess.
    "
    Obama inherited the positions that I said I want him to fail at?  Once again, you know you are not stating fact yet that doesnt matter to you.
    Did Obama inherit the policy initiatives that I laid out in 174?  No, they are policy initiatives!  He can CHOOSE to adopt a policy of the past or create new policies of his own.  Those I said were his own.

    Change means NOT continuing the same foriegn policies that has cost our nation its reputation....Change means NOT continuing the de-regulation of banking, investments, and insurance that has cause the collaspe of the economic house of cards of the past eight years.

    Intellectual fraud does mean the ignoring of the continuation of the foreign policies including rendition that you simply brush off as now irrelevant.  Intellectual fraud does mean the continued (misguided) blaming of the housing collapse on two bills, neither of which were signed in the past eight years and neither of which were signed by the Bush Administration but rather Clinton.

    You can keep trying and trying and trying and I have no doubt that you have successfully convinced yourself using your own rhetoric, but no one else here falls for grade school debate tactics of repeating it over and over makes it true.  I do not run from debate, but there is no debate here as you are simply wrong and misguided by  MSNBC (and did I see you cite the Huffington Report?)  Get beyond your rhetoric and simply focus on facts, you may learn something.
  • Michael
    Thanks, Michael.  there is no actual debate because obamas policies are defenseless.  it does not take much to figure that out.

    It is the lefts policies in general.  Obama must blame everything on the last administration, he inherrited the 3000 point drop during his term so far, he inherited the massive spending that even the CBO said should not be done and if the alternative was taken to simply do nothing-we would come out of this recession faster.  The Clinton Administration had to blame the next administration for its policies and David is doing the same with two bills he doesnt understand that were signed by BILL CLINTON "cause[ing] the collaspe of the economic house of cards of the past eight years."  Intellectual Fraud.

  • Titus Hunt
    David--oh so your buddy clinton didnt make is easier for those who couldnt afford houses to buy them?  are you saying that people who didnt pay their mortgages arent the cause of this problem?  maybe you dont think people should honor their debt when they sign on the bottom line but i do.  if a person loses their home due to prolonged job loss, that is one thing so there are exceptions.  however, most people didnt save and didnt give a damn how they got into a home or what the terms were.  now by working ourselves almost to death and continuing to get education, my husband and i have enough to survive on for years and years without taking from our investments.  why is that david?  im not special and havent had great jobs all of my life.  my husband hasnt either and has been layed off twice for very long periods of time.  why have we been able to save and eat beans and rice and drive old cars when others refuse?  even during prosperous years, i refused to take vacation or even a weekend getaway because i knew there may be a time we needed the money.  we did back down from this philosophy twice in the last ten years and took some time.  that is our normal life and we are happy with our choices and are now able to do things that we want while ensuring we prioritize.  have others done this also?  they just wanted a home and everything else at any cost.  just because i get a credit card in the mail encouraging me to use it doesnt mean i do.  you bounce back and forth depending on what is convenient.  tax breaks should be for working people to stimulate the economy.  why do you insist on taking from those who have worked hard to get where they are and give to those who choose not to work as hard?  that is not smart.  i know people who spent years and years working 80 to 100 hours a week dedicating their time to get ahead to be able to make good money.  not only did they put their blood, sweat and tears into their work, they also ensured they obtained the education, street smarts and skills to get where they are.  why penalize those people and give to those who work less and put in less effort?  some could say that people making $10/hr is too much, and they need to be taxed more.  does that make it right?  a while back you said that tax breaks put money back into the economy.  i agreed with you but said since we live in a global community, we also need to look at trade policies and the like and that companies need to be able to compete and PART of the problem besides taxation is trade and competition.  policies need to be changed that allow this.  David, you know that, and you also know that $13/week will not add to anyones bottom line, especially when the president and his followers take it away when energy bills and every product we buy increase as a result of crappy policies.  (im trying to be nice today at least for a while and havent call obama his well-deserved and earned title of "jerk."  however, that many change with my mood.)
  • davidwwalters72
    -Testy, arent we Michael?
    Intellectual dishonesty?  Infer im stupid, or call me a liar.....
    Oh you know i understand the bills in question
    <<David is doing the same with two bills he doesnt understand that were signed by BILL CLINTON>>  .....uh, hes not my buddy Jackie
    I understand them, and that is the source of your consternation.
    ...so instead of addressing Gramm-Leach-Bliley,  or even discussing the authors of said bill,  you dutifully(are you Bill OReills producer?) keep on about poor lil bankers forced to make sub-prime loans(...and you pontificate about circular arguments)  How silly! 
    <<Complex financial instruments is another term used for exotic mortgages. I/os, balloons, stated incomes etc. These were made possible back in 1980 and for reasons (as I said before) that could and are being made today that may see these same policies reinstated.>>
    You throw around some cool sounding terms meant to impress(ooooo, im impressed.....Michael has an MBA!), but there is NO substance to your argument that our financial melt down is due to people of color getting loans...
    -The issue IS Michael, WHY were banks so damnd eager to make these loans?
    WHY? Youd like us to be led to believe that nonsense about sub-prime loans in and of them selves are totally responsible for the financial melt down. 
    -But you know, and you know I know that banks were eager for the profit from the fees generated by LARGE numbers of loans being issued, and that investment firms were eager to sell bundled loans as AAA rated bonds for huge profits.  Yes, we can say that Community Re Investment was a bad idea to some degree.  But it did not CAUSE the present financial meltdown.....the cause was when the De-Regulation of the industry, by The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which allowed Banks and Investment firms to profit wildly from making these loans.  The banks and lenders could have made the applications apply to reality(....like does the borrower actually have a job)......but that wasnt their concern.  Their concern was the profits theyd derive from simply processing the loan and then promptly selling it.
    So call me a liar again Michael....

    Please, DO NOT insult mine or anyone elses intelligence  by allowing republicans and Phil Gramm in particular a free pass on Banking, investment, and underwriting De-Regulation, and the responsibility of this same De-Regulation on our present economic collapse for your own personal ego, or profit, or whatever your selfish  motivation is.
  • simonesdad2009
    Ive read that 97% of all mortgages are current or not in foreclosure.  So why is 3% wreaking havoc?  Yes, people took loans they couldnt afford at a time when home values were way overrated.  In my area there were 1 bedroom condos (really just apartments) going for a half million dollars.  The cheapest were in the 190/200s.  In order to sustain this false market for as long as it went on, someone, anyone had to be exploited.  Im not exonerating those who took the loans knowing they could not pay.  This was a tandem effort between vulnerable consumers and unregulated industries.  Are you telling me that banks, mortgage brokers and those who bundled and sold the bad paper were just doing their job?  Capitalism depends on the integrity of those who operate in it.  There was none from buyers and sellers but dont tell me no one knew about it.  They all knew but as long as there was money to be made or houses to be lived in the cycle continued.  That attitude became pervasive in some of our most trusted industries.  Read the Vanity Fair article about Walter Noel.  You will get great insight into the arrogance and absolute absence of due diligence and ethics involving billions in other peoples money.  And we are not talking about poor people here.  My point is that we all make decisions about the type of life we want to lead everyday.  We rarely consider the impact on the greater society until it turns bad.  Because there has been no gatekeeper for so long, drastic measures are now needed.  And, yes, we all pay for it.  Its unfortunate but after every party there is the hangover and cleanup.  Nobody likes it but it is necessary.
  • Titus Hunt
    However, to date there are really in truly no consequences to the people who caused this disaster.  we are bailing out the banks, auto companies and AIG.  They are not required to have new management at all levels in place.  There are no huge penalties to be paid.  there are no requirements that anyone connected with these deals be fired.  One bank that acquired another (not mentioning names) hired a lot of the failed companys executives and these folks were given license by the ceo to get rid of anyone they wanted.  so guess which side is taking bigger hits?  the legacy folks.  they are being shown the door and for what?  they were innocent!  a lot of the folks who belonged to the failed company, which includes folks who made bad decisions, kept their jobs!  now the people who bought homes they could not afford along with cars and probably with major credit card debit file bankruptcy, get government help, and rent.  they should not be let go without further consequences.  bankruptcy is terrible, but if they purposely took out loans for things they could not afford, they should have to pay this money back even if their wages are garnished for the rest of their lives.  that still would not make up for the problems people who are responsible are facing with job and retirement losses and losing their homes as a result of irresponsible people.  but we know that everyone will go easy on these folks and there is no shame any longer like there once was.  and i have to remember that we have to show compassionate for folks who are selfish inspite while ensuring innocent people suffer and it affects the whole economy (this is a liberal view regardless of which side of the fence you are on.)  a persons word is no longer their bond, unfortunately.  children are watching this and learning from their parents.  we have enough entitlement programs (they are all mismanaged) already and thanks to the liberals we are adding more.  i agree that we need some temporary ones but only if the right stimulus was in place.  since the stimulus is wrong, the entitlements will cost more than necessary and the public taxpayers are screwed in the end.
  • Michael
    "Intellectual dishonesty?  Infer im stupid, or call me a liar....."
    Intellectual dishonesty is not stupidity, liar however fits.  Here is an example..."but there is NO substance to your argument that our financial melt down is due to people of color getting loans..."  Copy and paste my saying this?  Give me a posting number.  You take anothers argument, try and distort it to fit a racist mold that you think you would have a chance arguing against.  So if you arent a liar, and I have said this, show me...do some research.

    "Ive read that 97% of all mortgages are current or not in foreclosure.  So why is 3% wreaking havoc?"
    There are several things to watch and sometimes they all get bundled together under terms like "underwater".  I believe the number now is approaching 95% but your point still stands.  The next is defaults and that gets broken down 30/60/90 day delinquency.  If you take those and add them to the forclosure rate then you have to estimate that another large wave of soon to be forclosures are in the works.  I saw today that 1 in 5 were upsidedown, meaning that 20% of homeowners, some that may already be in default or foreclosure and some not, owe more on their homes than they are worth in todays market.  That is a problem for anyone wishing to sell today or those who relied on the equity in their homes to pay on other debts.  When you break it all apart, and most news agencies do not for headline purposes, it is a problem, but a fixable one.

    "This was a tandem effort between vulnerable consumers and unregulated industries."
    Not that easy unfortunatly.  As I have said on here time and time again, those arent vulnerable consumers, nor were they unregulated industries by any means.  Any consumer, from the first time home buyer to the master of the RE Universe goes into a buying situation wanting to know what is the least amount of money they have to pay today and what is the least amount of money they have to pay per month in order to get the same asset.  Nothing more, no pouring over amatarization charts, hardly even a glance at truth in lending requirements, most do not even know the meaning of RESPA, only how little do I have to give you to get that. 
    Some where too smart by half.  Some went in to areas, like the one it sounds like you are in, and says prices are going up and up and I am not going to be here for more than a year or two so why do a fix that is 2 points higher when I can get an ARM that will adjust after I have already sold the place for a profit?  That was genius....by half.  They took the risk, some won, some lost.  And that is just one scenerio, there are countless others including stated income loans, Balloons, and even RE companies doing guarantee purchase agreements if they didnt sell your house in 6 months....they lost as well.  These are all things that will be argued make perfect sence and should be made available to the consumer again by well meaning, well intentioned people and politicians, I have already heard some.

    Capitalism depends on the integrity of those who operate in it.

    Everything does.  Captitalism, socialism, communism...everything.  I have argued on here that the use of "conflicting interest" is actually "conflicting goals" and it is only capitalism that has a unifying goal.  Socialism does not have the same goal as the company who is in business for a profit but rather to cater to a constituancy.  That conflict in goal causes loss of integrity when harm is done to the company in order to placate to a voting block.  This happened with the CRA, two very different goals but you had a private/government institution that was conflicted.  Look at the private equity investor today when it comes to banks, they will not purchase stock because of the fear of nationalazation.  That would not scare away investment if there was a common goal.  And therein lies the problem on our plate today.

    My point is that we all make decisions about the type of life we want to lead everyday
    I agree whole heartedly and with your following sentences as well however the route we are taking is not the right one.  We make decisions and we should have the right to succeed, but you never truly have that right unless you also have the right to fail.  Markets work on the assumption that its participants will act rationally.  We saw irrational exuberance in the housing market (some more than others) and the market must be allowed to correct itself and let the prices fall back into line.  We are as a country now (and worldwide the same) trying to stall the correction and artificially manipulate the valuations.  This doesnt work in any market, housing or otherwise and the rest of the world has proven that by doing exactly what we are doing now.
    This is why so many people are saying that by actually doing nothing, the correction would see us out of this much sooner than a stalling approach that will delay the inevitable and prolong the recessionary period.  They arent "do nothing" believers, they are market correction believers.  We are being led to believe that this is much worse than what it is, and for the people going through a forclosure it is horrific, but you must be allowed to fail if you are ever to be allowed to succeed. 
    I could go on and on about this but I am starting to bore myself.
  • simonesdad2009
    Most people, even with good paying jobs are a few missed, sometimes even one paycheck, away from financial ruin.  Take the the legacy workers displaced in a bank merger that Titus mentioned above.  That type of activity doubles down on bad bank behavior.  Foreclosures at the front and back end.  People who had no business buying a house and people who had income to support their purchase at the beginning but ran into trouble later.  Youre right people are looking for the best deal upfront but the banks preyed on the financially unsavvy and even those who knew exactly what they were doing.   Then they compounded the problem (after they collected) by spreading the bad loans like an oil spill.  If you are saying this is a consumer, albeit and uninformed/irresponsible one, generated crisis, I just dont buy it.  Its like handing a loaded gun to a 10 year old and then being shocked when someone ends up shot later on.  I understand:  people=bad, business=good.  I just dont buy it for one second.  Keep in mind at the heart of every business is people.  So to casually say let them fail means you might find yourself on the short end of that stick through no fault of your own.  Now you cant pay your house note and the cycle continues.  What will you say about the homeowner then when the homeowner is you?

    ...and socialism and communism depend on the integrity of the people?  Explain that one.
  • Michael
    "If you are saying this is a consumer, albeit and uninformed/irresponsible one, generated crisis, I just dont buy it."
    It is not a consumer generated crisis.  The consumer acted irrationally yes.  Loan products were made available to people who traditionally would not have qualified for loans through 0 down loans, stated income loans, soft second programs etc and all by well intentioned, well meaning programs that sought to increase home ownership rates.  This is a correction to rational from irrational and has happened with everything from tech to tulips.


    So to casually say let them fail means you might find yourself on the short end of that stick through no fault of your own.

    I do not casually say anything.  I simply think that "drastic measures are now needed.  And, yes, we all pay for it.  Its unfortunate but after every party there is the hangover and cleanup.  Nobody likes it but it is necessary."


    One way of doing that is to prolong the inevitable.  I am saying the market will correct and it will be painful for many but this is the only way to get the system moving.  If the government interjects, keeps people in their homes even though they can not afford it, in most cases they will ultimately still loose their home and be forced back into the rental market.  That fixes nothing and at some point we must face the fact it will happen.  But in the meantime, what happens to valuations?  Does the price correction take place in the way it needs to?  We will see.
     What will you say about the homeowner then when the homeowner is you?  

    Everything is about perspective, the difference is how one reacts to their own adversities in life.  I repeat that the only way I ever had a right to succeed was by first having the right to fail.  We will repeat this time and time again until the market corrects, there is no way around it, only the prolonging of it.  
    One bank that acquired another (not mentioning names) hired a lot of the failed companys executives and these folks were given license by the ceo to get rid of anyone they wanted.

    I will mention names.  PNC Bank which acquired National City with TARP money and that was for an acquisition PNC didnt necessarily want to make.  US Bank CEO, Richard Davis"I will say this very bluntly: We were told to take it. Not asked, told. You will take it, " Davis said. "It doesnt matter if you were there on the first night and you were told to sign on the dotted line before you walked out of the office, or whether in the days that followed, you were told to take it."
    This was a consolidation attempt at the federal level to force a sort of economic darwinism on the banking system.  Everyone kept asking afterwards why banks werent really lending out any more money this was why.  The money was meant for acquisitions.  The same thing was done in Britain just weeks before hand.  There was a public line and there was reality.
    socialism and communism depends on the integrity of those who operate in it.

    Governments themselves which are intertwined with the companies also have to have integrity as they are just another equity partner in most cases.  This is where I get back into conflicting goals of the state and the institution and why that dynamic fails time and time again.  Integrity comes in the truthfulness of the motivation and in socialist, communist, or any gov. intervening system, motivation is skewed by placating to one constituancy or another for the purpose of power.  These are still Democracies.
  • Michael
    ^the formatting didnt take for some reason.
  • Titus Hunt
    Michael:  you are good at your explanations.  years ago my job was buying mortgage-backed securities and i understand the bundling pretty well but am not an expert by any means.  by the way, i cant say names but the institution i was talking about was bigger than the one you named.  it is apparent that there are so many players in this debacle and we are going to all pay a heavy price for it.  from the beginning i wondered if giving help to homeowners would work.  i think in a lot of cases the government will be throwing our money away and prolonging the inevitable.
  • amber
    Titus really is a moron. Just an observation.
  • simonesdad2009
    ...all by well intentioned, well meaning programs that sought to increase home ownership rates.

    Have you heard the term predatory lender?  Again:  business=good, people=bad.

    PNC or any other bank or business does not HAVE to take the money.  Then they are free to succeed, fail, whatever on their own terms.  Thats what you want, right?  Isnt this the same dynamic as the irresponsible homebuyer?  You dont like the terms, dont want the terms, didnt read the fine print, DONT TAKE THE MONEY!  I believe all of these CEOs are capitalists to the core until its their butts on the line.  Dont get me wrong, I believe in the capitalist system but it is a ruthless system and by no means a panacea in every case.  Yes, it sorts itself out in most instances and I get what you are saying about prolonging the inevitable.  This feels different to me.  Its too big, too insidious, too deep to just let it work itself out.  If I scrape my knee and do nothing to treat it, most likely it will heal and I probably wont even have a scar.  If Im slashed with a machete I can do nothing and hope it heals, trusting in the regenerative powers that worked on my scrape.  Or I can take measures to stop the bleeding, stitch the wound and "stimulate" the natural healing capacity of my body.  Otherwise I may go from a deep wound to loss of limb simply because of inaction.  Even if I have to sew it up myself, Im taking action and allowing the natural healing powers its best chance.  You cant heal a limb that has fallen off.
  • Michael R.
    Sorry for the short answer here but I have about two seconds.

    PNC or any other bank or business does not HAVE to take the money. 

    They did, and they were given the money to acquire National City.  The merger as I said was due to the government wanting to solve the problem of failing banks by the merging with larger and creating the "too big to fail" banks.  This wasnt the only bank that this happened to, it just happens to be the bank merger I am most familiar with.  This move to economic darwinism is a means to an end.  Much easier to nationalize the few big, than the many small.  

    i think in a lot of cases the government will be throwing our money away and prolonging the inevitable.
    Real quick answer.  Look at todays news on the refinancing to as low as 2.2% for troubled homeowners coupled with giving the power to "renegotiate" existing mortgages for many more, without even new apraisals.  Government Mandated Policies.  Now as a lending institution, what changes are going to be made to new loan requirements now they know that 6 months from now the loan they write today could be rewritten?  We are already seeing this with the tightening of requirements to a level that it goes to the next stage and cripples the developers even more as their presold requirements are through the roof at 70% now (bet no one read that in the news) and this is coming from the GSEs.  Unintended consequences are the results of the expediency of placating to a constituancy vs the effeciencies that market forces put on free institutions.
  • Michael R.
    "Have you heard the term predatory lender?
    ...You dont like the terms, dont want the terms, didnt read the fine print, DONT TAKE THE MONEY!"

    You answered your own question there.  This was not a "preditory lending" driven problem.  Which part of adjustable rate in adjustable rate mortgage is misleading?
  • Michael R.
    "Then they are free to succeed, fail, whatever on their own terms.  Thats what you want, right?"
    No, and that is my point.  Many of the smaller banks should have failed but there was a move to give money to larger, more sound institutions to buy the less sound.  Economic Darwinism takes place when one institution feels that the market value is less than the asset value of a company.  That is the simplified version, but that isnt the decission process that was going on...and once again we get into conflicting goals.  You may have misread what I said before happened but reread the quote from the CEO of US Bank and if you actually look at the entire speech, which I recommend everyone does, you will see that normal market forces were not at play here.

     I believe all of these CEOs are capitalists to the core until its their butts on the line.
    CEOs have one job, not to protect capitalism, but to protect investors.  When faced with losses that may lead ultimatly to a bancruptcy, it is the CEOs job to do what it takes to maintain the highest possible value for the company and its shareholders.

    Its too big, too insidious, too deep to just let it work itself out.
    Most reasonable, thinking people feel exactly the same way you do.  When you see home values going down, layoffs in the tens of thousands, and get a glimpse of numbers used in the world of high finance, it is scary.  But we have seen scrarier times before.  The difference is philosophy in the reaction to the problem.  When you sit back and take an objective look at the problems we have, there are fixes that are within the perameters of capitalism.   Knee jerk reactions are an easy sale, maintain the status quo at all cost.  We need change, but we need a change that will maintain not the problems, but maintain the economic system that strives for effeciency over expediency. 
    If I scrape my knee and do nothing to treat it, most likely it will heal and I probably wont even have a scar.  If Im slashed with a machete I can do nothing and hope it heals, trusting in the regenerative powers that worked on my scrape. 
    I love that analogy!  On the flip side however if I have a headache and treat it with oxycodone I introduce a whole other host of problems to an already bad situation.  We need a bit of perspective here.  Once again, step back, take a look at todays recession vs 81 and 82.  Compare and contrast.  The biggest difference today is that we are simoultanously seeing a global meltdown within the same economic strutured systems that we are now trying to emulate.  How are they coping in other countries?  Did they see a subprime meltdown as well (look at Britian)?  I am in no way discounting the need to do something, but what is happening today is 180 degrees opposite of what is needed.
  • Michael R.
    Anyone want to explain this quote to me by Barny Frank?

    Frank, in a briefing that covered a variety of topics, also said the Obama administration’s use of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to help dig the U.S. out of an economic “hole” won’t affect the mortgage-finance companies’ future.
    “If you do not reduce foreclosures, you do not get out of the hole,” Frank said. “In no way does that have any impact on what their future will be. It is clear now, looking back, that there was a tension between their public mandate and their private-sector form, and we will have to sort that out.” http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2poB5rN4YIc&refer=home

    This is conflict of goals.  Public vs Private goals.  Profit vs Power, Market Effeciency vs Political Expediency.  Now see this same "tension" translated throughout every market and you get the same result...collapse.
  • Titus Hunt
    Well, i guess the big businesses are the only companies this joke of an administration cares about?  it doesnt matter that small businesses employ 90%+ of people?  i guess it is irrelevant that they are suffering already and now they will pay higher taxes?  they are not being helped!  well i guess if you call paying more taxes help, they are.  of course, those idiots who like to say that the middleclass is actually getting tax cuts when is it only $13/week may disagree but they are just in a world of their own!  im hearing of more and more people who make $250K+ purposely cutting their incomes to ensure they dont have to pay more taxes.  i say BRAVO and applaud them!  obama will not have as much as he wanted to give to those who dont deserve it!  it is disgraceful that now the contributions to charities from people who have a little bit will decrease as a result of bad policies.  that is bad enough but when you look at who will suffer the most of all of this, it is despicable!  charities will help less people so the poor will suffer.  now what party is being selfish and doesnt care about the poor?  small businesses are already planning to lay people off and not hire people (more than they were before).  now obama has his priorities in place--not!  dont get me wrong healthcare is important (not nationalized healthcare, of course!).  however, while the markets are tanking again today and there is so much uncertainty in the nation, people are losing jobs, companies are failing, etc., he is listening to doctors and.........................  why cant he work on getting one thing right before moving on to the next?  he is a complete failure.  of course, his sidekick, biden, is a whole other comedy show by himself.  he is off in a posh hotel resort speaking to the AFL CIO big wigs who are spending mountains of money enjoying themselves while their people are being layed off.  hmmmmm!  now biden flew at taxpayer expense to cater to people who elected him and his other half to office while this economy is tanking?  what happened to transparency?  they wouldnt let the media in?  wonder why?  how many people trust the mob/unions and the vp to be in private meetings?  wonder who is in bed with who?  now does someone besides me see the writing on the wall?  i see the word "crooked" as plain as day.  now who is questioning the intelligence of the american people who voted these idiots into office?  i for one am!  but hey, we have what we have and yes, i want this administration to fail so the American people will have a chance to survive!  thank goodness there are a few democrats in the senate who are finally seeing the waste and are angry.  i have to say that im happy about that but they are extremely slow so i think it has to be a mental thing.  what is wrong with the others?  i dont even want to know!
  • Michael R.
    "say that the middleclass is actually getting tax cuts when is it only $13/week may "
    I saw someone raise that point the other day and at the time I thought it wasnt even worth replying to but WOW, give that some thought.  The sum of the weekly payments were compared to a single check.  T/V/M aside, the economic impact of x dollars today vs x dollars amatorized over a year is vastly different.  Who ever made that argument wasnt thinking.

    Unintended consequences I believe would sum up you post.  Any one action has countless ripples throughout the economy.  Many will sleep well at night thinking that they recieve a 13 dollar a week tax cut, meanwhile tax deductions disapear.  Hopefully more and more people will simply look at how much of the same dollar do they get to keep now vs the past.  Will it be more, or less.  And behavior will change.  They call them tax incentives for a reason.  When that incentive is taken away, so is the contribution.  But some things we just have to learn for ourselves.
  • Titus Hunt
    Michael R--13*52=$676.  not that it matters but is that before or after taxes!  hahaha!  why cant we have bigger tax cuts for all so that the impact will be immediate?  someone the other day said to me through a post that i am ungrateful when i was talking about this subject.  hmmm!  who am i to be grateful to for giving the middleclass this minuscule amount of money back to the people who earned it in the first place?  am i to be thankful to their higher power, obama?  the higher energy costs will wipe that out little bit before they even get to paying for the higher costs of every good and service they receive.  so this obama guy clearly spelled out in his campaign how he would destroy America, and Americans elected him to do this?  he is doing exactly SOME of the things he said he would do and most Americans still dont see it?  i just cant believe people are that .........!  i really dont even know what the appropriate word would be because all of the words that i can think of just do not do this situation justice.
  • Michael
    why cant we have bigger tax cuts for all so that the impact will be immediate?
    Unfortunately that plane has sailed.  Look at the argument.  Every step that we are taking now is to discredit specific media, specific industry, specific economic classes.  This has happened before.  We now have an economic advisory team ran solely by academics and theorist and those that criticize, those who are the day to day practitioners are attacked.

    Debate is what is needed.  Open, honest, fair debate.  If we have econ theorist who believe that the only problem with socialization, both in the past and in the modern times, didnt work simply because of an a failure of leadership, then lets here the plan, the real plan.

    We are being divided now in two groups.  Those who believe in individualism and those who believe in a form of collectivism.  From the times of Pilgrims, we in America have opposed collectivism for individual productivity and reliance.  The move that we are seeing today trumps the socialist economies of even Europe.  The argument is easy, blame a system that few truly understand, offer a system that promises "social justice" and grease the wheels of "change" with urgency.  Time is the biggest enemy of the latest wizards of smart. 

    Many things will be unable to be undone.  What you will see is some smaller countries figuring this out and offering incentives including low corporate taxes coupled with labor forces that are educated, efficient and low cost.  Will it be wrong for more and more companies to take "better offers".  If history serves as a guide, these companies and investors will be demonized as unpatriotic and proposals will be made to stop capital outflow.  This happened in 1965 when multinationals were asked to voluntarily restrict capital outflows to foreign subsidiaries and increase dividend inflows back to the US.  They found a way around that of course through foreign financing but I am seeing more and more consolidation of global banks that will limit that option in the future.  But someone will offer the financing, someone will offer the resources, someone will offer the opportunity to succeed (or fail).  Unfortunately that someone will not be the United States.
  • davidwwalters72
    Simonesdad2009(185).....
    <<
    So why is 3% wreaking havoc?  Yes, people took loans they couldnt afford at a time when home values were way overrated.....
    >>
    -U
    h,
    dont ask Michael, hes "intellectual dishonest".....and he wont answer your really good question.   Hell atempt once more to tell all who are reading that irresponsible, probably stupid people(because they havent got an MBA....)are solely to blame for everything.
    <<This was a tandem effort between vulnerable consumers and unregulated industries.  Are you telling me that banks, mortgage brokers and those who bundled and sold the bad paper were just doing their job?  Capitalism depends on the integrity of those who operate in it.>>
    -But some people are looking beneath the veneer.
    <<They all knew but as long as there was money to be made or houses to be lived in the cycle continued. >>
    -Money is the key.  NOT some fabled gun stuck to the heads of the poor lil bankers!  They found a way to make a KILLING off The Community ReInvestment Act.  The mechanism?  Phil Gramms machinations, GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY & THE COMMODITY FUTURES MODERNIZATION ACT.......(-Just think, we could have had him for Secretary of Treasury)
  • davidwwalters72
    Jackie(186)........
    <<
    However, to date there are really in truly no consequences to the people who caused this disaster.  we are bailing out the banks, auto companies and AIG.
    >>
    -C
    a
    nt argue with that statement....yes, id like to see jail time for those who committed criminal acts, but then these guys are smart enough and schooled in how to take advantage of legal loopholes, so i do not see this as a viable remedy.
    But then you go back to the irresponsible people(less well off?) <<........they should have to pay this money back even if their wages are garnished for the rest of their lives. >>
    -Garnish their wages?  AsSimonesdad2009
    pointed out, it was the greed motive of the lending institutions that seduced well meaning people to go into debt, believing their houses would only increase in value.....a lie perpetuated by these same lending institutions. 
    We still see these cute "barbarians" touting Capital One credit cards on TV....
    Michael(186)....
    <<
    Intellectual dishonesty is not stupidity, liar however fits.  Here is an example..."but there is NO substance to your argument that our financial melt down is due to people of color getting loans...>>
    You have been here trying to tell us the current financial meltdown is due tho The Community ReInvestment Act.  The underlying codewords are a subtle form of racism,if the shoe fits....
    - I have been pointing out how GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY & THE COMMODITY FUTURES MODERNIZATION ACT has taken advantage of The Community ReInvestment Act to create huge profits from selling risky loans as AAAbonds.  This is the truth and you have no comeback for this other than to attack me.....The sure sign of a loser.
  • davidwwalters72
    Jackie(186)........
    <<
    However, to date there are really in truly no consequences to the people who caused this disaster.  we are bailing out the banks, auto companies and AIG.
    >>
    -C
    a
    nt argue with that statement....yes, id like to see jail time for those who committed criminal acts, but then these guys are smart enough and schooled in how to take advantage of legal loopholes, so i do not see this as a viable remedy.
    But then you go back to the irresponsible people(less well off?) <<........they should have to pay this money back even if their wages are garnished for the rest of their lives. >>
    -Garnish their wages?  AsSimonesdad2009
    pointed out, it was the greed motive of the lending institutions that seduced well meaning people to go into debt, believing their houses would only increase in value.....a lie perpetuated by these same lending institutions. 
    We still see those cute "barbarians" touting Capital One credit cards on TV....
    Michael(186)....
    <<
    Intellectual dishonesty is not stupidity, liar however fits.  Here is an example..."but there is NO substance to your argument that our financial melt down is due to people of color getting loans...>>
    You have been here trying to tell us the current financial meltdown is due tho The Community ReInvestment Act.  The underlying codewords are a subtle form of racism,if the shoe fits....
    - I have been pointing out how GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY & THE COMMODITY FUTURES MODERNIZATION ACT has taken advantage of The Community ReInvestment Act to create huge profits from selling risky loans as AAAbonds.  This is the truth and you have no comeback for this other than to attack me.  Call me a liar....it is the sure sign of a loser.
  • davidwwalters72
    Jackie(200).....
    <<
    who am i to be grateful to for giving the middleclass this minuscule amount of money back to the people who earned it in the first place?
    >>
    A
    f
    ter huge tax cuts for the wealthy we probably cant afford much more.....not that id not like to see more, but the $$$Trillion+$$$ tax cuts of 8 years ago has helped get us into this mess...
    And you want to pin this mess on Obama. 
    <<
    so this obama guy clearly spelled out in his campaign how he would destroy America, and Americans elected him to do this?  he is doing exactly SOME of the things he said he would do and most Americans still dont see it?
    >>
    "Destroy America?" No, he is trying to fix the hugh mess our last Cmd-in-Chief made.
  • Michael
    "You have been here trying to tell us the current financial meltdown is due tho The Community ReInvestment Act.  The underlying codewords are a subtle form of racism,if the shoe fits...."

    You are a sad sad little person.  You have no real argument, you distort, mislead, and ignore facts that you can not argue against.  You read a left wing blog somewhere that makes an argument that you want to latch on to and when you are unable to make the argument in the face of fact, you resort to calling people racist.  You waste my time.
  • Michael
    After your last little comment David, I would define you as not just being intellectually dishonest or an intellectual fraud, but rather an intellectual coward.  A cliche of the left.  "all bushs fault"  "all republican senators fault" "Obama fixing America" "Rush bad, Cramer bad, Santelli bad...Mathews good, Olberman good, Arianna Huffington good"  You are just one cliche after another.  Why even read your post when I can just read the DNC talking points myself?

    Think for yourself at some point.  Expand your education, expand your knowledge, expand your perspective on what is going on today and get out of the prison that hardcore political ideology places your mind in.  When you can do that, we can have a real debate, man to man rather than man to DNC puppet.
  • Titus Hunt
    David-we are not in this mess because of taxes.  the economy was strong for a long while.  ...and yes, people who purposely bought houses they could not afford and lived beyond their means should have their wages garnished to pay back their debts.  in addition, people who used their home as leverage should also.  this is totally irresponsible and reflects greed.  the reason these types of people do not have money is mismanagement.
  • Titus Hunt
    David--Obama is responsible for his part in the TARP.  so yes he is part of the problem.  however, i cant blame him for much of anything else because the two years he was supposed to be a senator, he was absent most of the time and wasnt doing his job.  so his tract record and experience as a leader is no where to be found.  that would tell me what kind of person he is.  the bills he did vote for, they were always for his party.  that is no leader--a puppet maybe.  he didnt have the experience he needed to be president and it is being proven every day.  obama is proving to be the same ole same ole politics as usual that he campaigned against.  he was taught this from the corrupt system he came from but that is no excuse to lie to the American people.  look at the 9,000 pork projects in this current bill.  that is proof enough.  whether you choose to see it is another story.  if he signs this bill, America definitely cant count on him to do a damn thing for this country.  now i have seen this all along but some people need to have their faces rubbed in the mess time and time again before they wake up.  the left-wing news organization CNN had a segment today talking about how most of the new energy jobs obama wants to create.  they said the workers salaries were from about $8/hr to $12/hr.  now this is what ive said all along.  now are you beginning to see the problem with obama, David?
  • davidwwalters72
    jackie(208)....
    <<
    David-we are not in this mess because of taxes.  the economy was strong for a long while.
    >>
    " but the $$$Trillion+$$$ tax cuts of 8 years ago has helped get us into this mess..." -Me
    -My
    bad, i should have said Tax cuts for the wealthy, $10Billion/month wasted in Iraq, and a continuation of cowboy capitalism on wall street......all of these helped contribute to the mess we are now in....
    But was the economy really strong?  I feel as if you you use only the stock market as an indicator.  Real incomes for average Americans has been dropping, along with outsourcing of manufacturing all across the nation.....we are becoming a nation of burger flippers&leaf blowers.  In (209)
    <<
    ....so his(Obamas)  tract(track?) record and experience as a leader is no where to be found.>>
    -Y
    e
    s we could have had could have had old John McCain, and maybe hed have pick Phil Gramm(......remember him?) as secretary of the Treasury....
    <<...look at the 9,000 pork projects in this current bill.  that is proof enough.>>
    -YES! Republicans are totally against pork!   Yeah, right....

    "The self-righteousness among Republicans on the issue of government spending is rank and overwhelming. The GOP is acting as if federal spending is a Democratic monopoly.

    So lets go to the videotape. Or, rather, the Congressional Record, where we find the list of earmarks in the omnibus spending bill and discover that—wait for it—three of the top five earmarking senators are Republicans."-By John Aloysius Farrell
    So, Jackie.....the republicans are going to save us from PORK!  REALLY???
    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/john-farrell/2009/3...
  • davidwwalters72
    Michael(206)....
    <<
    You are a sad sad little person.  You have no real argument, you distort, mislead, and ignore facts that you can not argue against.
    >>
    -Michael, is this all you can counter me with?  Now THAT is sad.  As i stated, your idea that loans to poor people(.....mostly people of color?) is the root of our financial mess.  I deftly countered your argument with the fact that the machinations of former Sen. Phil Gramm
    -(Republican from Texas, and former chairman of the Senate banking Committee)
    ......was the mechanism that allowed the deregulation of Wall Street, banking, and insurance.  This led to a method of making vast sums of money from changing sub-prime loans into AAA bonds and selling them.  The origination fees and the profit on the sale of bonds generated vast sums of wealth for this small set of people i mentioned above.  Nowhere did you counter this argument, except to attack the messenger(me), and as i said....THAT IS THE SURE SIGN OF A LOSER.
    you descend into the habit of true losers by name calling....
    <<After your last little comment David, I would define you as not just being intellectually dishonest or an intellectual fraud, but rather an intellectual coward....>>
    Coward?  It is YOU Michael, who IS the coward. 
    <<You waste my time.>>-Michael
  • Titus Hunt
    David-as usual you are being you!  as i have said before im not happy with the 40% of pork being from republicans and think it is disgraceful.  thank goodness for people like John McCain and a few others even democrats who are trying their best to stop this.  however, the democrats are in charge but 99% refuse to give a damn.  it is disgraceful for both parties but the democrats are in charge and we see what they are doing--nothing.  i dont think anyone who is wasting our money should be in Washington, which includes all of obamas team and anyone who supports him and any liberal hiding under a conservative role.  however, you and your party need to take responsibility for what you do and support.  i have never seen any post of yours slamming your own party for being stupid, which they most of the time.  however, you have seen that in my posts for my party.  that is the difference between the parties.  we dont mind placing blame where it needs to be if we feel it is justified.  the writing is on the wall that says obama is a fraud.  you, however, want to turn your back to that fact.  there are a few of us here that have listed his lies and they are facts so why are you not admitting he is a total hypocrite?  i want honest true republicans in washington.  there are some and hopefully we can get the others out.  however, the democrats are as dishonest as they come right now and you guys need to stop supporting those who are screwing this country.  oh and by the way, im just going on obamas rhetoric and how is is for change and will cut spending.  ha!  this latest bill is a perfect example of his lies so dont give me any crap about our side when you have soooo many problems on yours.  why dont you start holding him accountable for his words like i do in my party?
  • davidwwalters72
    Jackie(212)...
    <<
    David-as usual you are being you!  as i have said before im not happy with the 40% of pork being from republicans and think it is disgraceful.  thank goodness for people like John McCain and a few others even democrats
    ......>>
    W
    h
    o else would i be?(....chuckling;)
    -But with a reported 1% of the total budget(....is this right?) ......it seems we could go farther in our quest to reduce the un-necessaries, budget wise.  And being me, you know i see the pentagons budget as ripe for the picking.
    Do we need B-2 Bombers, or F-22 Fighters right now?  The pork outlays for some defense programs dwarf spending that could do a community some good.  Perhaps we could even afford to insure all our citizens can see a doctor when they become sick!
    <<it is disgraceful for both parties but the democrats are in charge and we see what they are doing--nothing.>>
    Do you expect me to let that go when we both know when the republicans we in the majority of both houses of congress and owned the executive branch, and did exactly the same thing?
  • Titus Hunt
    David--if you take the pork out of the current spending bill, the "stimulus" and stop sending money overseas to fund abortions, cut, cut and cut, it will all add up to much needed money.  wasted money is wasted money no matter how big or small of an amount.  we could use that money to actually create more jobs.  yes, i do expect you to let it go because i agree the republicans wasted money but as you said, two wrongs dont make a right.  the republicans are cleaning house thank goodness and i suggest that the democrats complain and get yahoos out of your party as well.  doing this on both sides only helps us all.  obama didnt need to lie about his actual plans in his campaign like he did.  he has lied so many times ive lost count.  you guys voted for change and we are getting cow dung.  i guess that is the change you want?  i can tell you that he is prolonging our recession but will try to take credit for its recovery even though the recovery will only be because the markets will eventually correct themselves.  people will be dumb enough to buy it though unfortunately.  i will never agree to nationalized healthcare because it does not represent free markets and will be as inefficient as medicare, medicaid and every other program under the governments control.  now that is just one of the reasons.  of course, as we know he  lied about not having lobbyists in his cabinet so we know that the lobbyists in the medical industry will ensure we the taxpayers pay too much for all medical services and drugs and obama will not stop them.  but hey, i can say the say about biden and his lavish luxury setting this past week with the ALO CIO (is that the name).  the unions have also bought and paid for this administration so we are in for a "treat."  i hope the large sum of our money biden spent to make this unnecessary trip makes someone happy.  so much for cutting costs.  the writing is on the wall about how serious this bunch of nuts is taking controlling spending and cutting costs.
  • davidwwalters72
    <<David--if you take the pork out of the current spending bill, the "stimulus" and stop sending money overseas to fund abortions, cut, cut and cut, it will all add up to much needed money.>>-Jackie(214)
    -E
    v
    ery little bit helps, true.
    But my point is, that pork is not the exclusive domain of democrats as my friends on the right would have America believe.  And as i pointed out, MUCH more money can be saved by delaying or cutting costly pentagon projects, such as F-22 Fighters and the new Gerald Ford Class of aircraft carriers that will cost us many, many billions of dollars.  Lets do both....cut funding for foreign aid, AND wasteful defense projects

    <<....
    the republicans are cleaning house thank goodness and i suggest that the democrats complain and get yahoos out of your party as well......
    >>
    They(.....the republicans) have?  The only house cleaning  done was  in November when the American electorate chose to get rid of "yahoos"
    like Robin Hayes in my congressional district and replace them.

    <<.....
    he has lied so many times ive lost count.
    >>
    -I remember Dub-ya making a campaign promise to be bipartisan and to abide by the Kyoto Accords, -he did neither, but hes no liar, is he?
    .....We are barely 6 weeks into Obamas term....there are policies id like him to pursue more vigorously, but he has a tough job ahead of him due to the inherited mess in his lap.....give him some tome Jackie.

    <<i can tell you that he is prolonging our recession but will try to take credit for its recovery even though the recovery will only be because the markets will eventually correct themselves.>>
    -Herbert Hoover used  the very same policies that are called for presently by ALL republicans.  We all know(.....or should know)  how well that DIDNT work.  When private enterprise cuts their work force, it causes a ripple effect where less people have jobs.  So fewer people have jobs and can purchase products, which leads to another round of layoffs.....
    How long will unemployment benefits last?  Should we cut more aid?  As unemployment increases, state governments can no longer pay their workers.  Teachers, police, and prison guards will eventually be laid off.  Is this good public policy?  Should we as a nation be captive to a totally free market?  1929 is a lesson some refuse to see.
  • davidwwalters72
    "Put Earmarks in Perspective"
    http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2009/0306_ear...

    -"
    McCain has long been a passionate opponent of congressional earmarks,
    ..........And there is merit to much of what he says. The number and cost of earmarks exploded in the late 1990s and early 2000s. New lobbying shops, often working on commission for private contractors and local governments, used their experience on Capitol Hill and access to policymakers to deliver projects outside of the regular grant-making and contracting processes, threatening the quality of resource allocation."

    Jackie
    , how many retired senators and congressmen move on to a career as a lobbyist?  ".....often working on commission for private contractors......."
    These
    former lawmakers use their experience to influence funding for the benefit of the contractor.  Both sides do it.  Sometimes it is waste.  Sometimes it can have merit.

    ".........new transparency measures were adopted to make possible public accountability. Members of Congress will be increasingly sensitive to the potential political costs as well as benefits of directing project funds to those who pay to play."
    -I
    think".....directing project funds to those who pay to play." is key here.
    Lobbying can be used as a form of legalized bribery.  How do we remedy this?  Increased transparency is a start, yet does it fall short of what taxpayers want and need?  I think so.

    " Earmarks constitute less than 1 percent of the federal budget. In most cases, they don’t add to federal expenditures but merely allow Congress to direct a small fraction of program funding that would otherwise be allocated by formula or grant competition."
    -It
    seems that McCain, if he was truly interested in budget constraints, could look elsewhere to find waste.....
  • Titus Hunt
    why cant we all look at every $1 of waste and not discount anything?  why cant the obama administration be held at their word of no earmarks?  that is just proof that his promises to the American people are bogus.  what about his promise to not tax seniors making under $50k?  that will not happen.  he made promises to every group of people that he has no intention of keeping.  this is more than just campaign rhetoric.  people elected him on the basis of what he said and he is a phoney.  dont get me started on transparency and his promises to put bills on the net for public viewing and opinion before he signs them.  if you believe he is trying to be transparent, i have some swamp land to sell you.  obama should not have made promises to keep lobbyists out of his administration if he was not going to actually do it.  i guess lies are not important to you guys.  i criticize my party for not upholding their promises, but you seem to just sweep it under the carpet.  are there any limits that you have on their dishonesty?  it certainly doesnt look like it.  you are quick to criticize the right but overlook the blantent lies of the left.  unfortunately, in the state of this economy the dishonesty of any party is more devestating than ever.  however, obama did plainly state a lot of his plans to destroy this country in his campaign.  the dumbing down of Americans was shown when they voted for him despite them!
  • davidwwalters72
    Jackie(217)....
    <<
    people elected him on the basis of what he said and he is a (phony).
    >>
    -Ja
    ckie,
    people voted for Obama because they wanted a change from the direction the GOP has taken us.  I dont envy Obama in the sense that it is a big job he has before him due to the huge mess he inherited.

    <<i criticize my party for not upholding their promises, but you seem to just sweep it under the carpet.>>
    -Oh, i would like to see perfection too....and in time i may have a gripe against the man.  Its too early to rate the presidency, hell its only just begun.  Your anger seems to me because your guys tried for 8 years and failed.....and the hope of a conservative nation, with totally free markets has been discredited.
  • Wade
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    I am so sick of hearing about earmarks. We’re talking about less that 2% of a budget that left in or taken out, isn’t going to make or break this failing economy. Obama is facing two wars, a health care crisis, an education crisis, a housing crisis, a lending crisis and as a result of the latter, a global economic crisis. The only people that seem to want to get hung up on 2% of the budget, is looser John McCain and the losers that supported him. The GOP has found something they can point at and say, Obama said “this” on the campaign trail and now he’s not doing what he said. I believe that a President should be held accountable for what he promises but enough is enough. Besides, it might interest some of you to know that on the campaign trail President Obama said in his first year he would reduce earmarks to the level they were in 1994, the lowest in four decades. The 1994 budget had 7.8 billion dollars worth of earmarks and this year’s budget has 7.4 billion in earmarks, 400 million less than the promised 1994 levels. Bush’s 2008 budget contained 29 billion in earmarks making up 17% of the budget. I would suggest that those of you that are so bent out of shape over earmarks need to check your facts and stop following the GOP likes it’s your local sports team. I’m from Cincinnati, I know what it’s like to cheer for losers and hope for the best. The only difference here is that if Marvin Lewis (coach of the Cincinnati Bengals) makes some bad decisions, people don’t loose their homes, retirement plans, jobs or their lives. Just because you heard it on conservative talk radio or Fox News does not make it so and the fact that you are all regurgitating their talking points in unison is proof positive you are not seeking the facts. You are being presented half truths for political jockeying purposes.
  • AP
    All this Twitter talk has me highly considering starting an account there.
  • Michael
    I deftly countered your argument with the fact that the machinations of former Sen. Phil Gramm.

    Ohhhhh, thank you for that little laugh....wait a minute........"deftly" countered my argument.....oh my god! that is rich! rich I say! How do you even come back on this?  Are you even serious?  "deftly countered" I love this guy!!!! No shame, living in his own dream world. 

    Quick question, and I ask for one of your skilled answers, what are A, B, C,BB, BBB,  Alt-A?  Any of the mortgages that were packaged into CDOs fall under these ratings or were they all just AAA rated?  If you could, deftly explain that to me.   "Deftly countered my argument" Oh, that made my day.....
  • Michael
    By the way David, I responded deftly to your post on the Stimulus anything but thread.
  • Michael
    Wade
    I understand that there is 7.7 billion of "earmarks" and seeing as how you have done your research on exactly what is and what is not in the budget, what percentage is not classified as "earmarks" but rather only meets the definitional requirements of "unrequested funding" by the OMB?  Just so we have all the facts.
  • davidwwalters72
    Michael(222)....
    <<
    By the way David, I responded deftly to your post on the Stimulus anything but thread.
    >>
    -Did you(Goliath)? 
    I think David zapped ol Goliath right between the eyes once more.
    <<Quick question, and I ask for one of your skilled answers, what are A, B, C,BB, BBB,  Alt-A?  Any of the mortgages that were packaged into CDOs fall under these ratings or were they all just AAA rated?  If you could, deftly explain that to me.   "Deftly countered my argument" Oh, that made my day.....>>
    -oooo, sounds impressive....like you have an MBA or something.....
    -I am oh, sooooo NOT impressed.....and
    Goliath sure  was  pampas too.....but the real question is about de-regulation, and how Gramm-Leach-Blileys repeal of Glass-Steagall led us down the road to financial ruin.
    Maybe you could answer, but are unwilling.....attempting to wow me with some impressive sounding BULLSHIT.  Or maybe you just dont know (......MBA notwithstanding).....so ILL answer it for you...

    Prior to Gramm-Leach-Bliley credit default swaps (insurance on credit securities) were allowed but were regulated. In 1999, credit default swaps became unregulated allowing insurers to issue the swaps without any reserves causing the market to balloon from about $900 billion to between $50-$70 trillion within 7 years.

    Any more name calling?  Id love this not to be anonymous, but face to face.....youd not be so willing with the name calling my small friend....
  • Titus Hunt
    David--your reasoning of why obama is now is office is off base.  ive posted several times about the reasoning.  see the difference between you and me is that i dont want anyone on either side in washington if they do not work for the American people.  now when i say that i hope you understand that i mean intelligent American people.  people who voted for change are now getting a huge bad taste in their months in your party.  they are beginning to stir.  i think it is ridiculous for anyone to regret voting him in because he said what he was going to do and glossed over certain issues to ensure he told people anything they wanted to hear to get their votes.  it is funny when you say he inherited this when he was a part of the TARP and needs to stand up for what he voted for.  that was a huge mistake and not smart!  there are several initiatives he could have put into place to immediately stimulate this economy but didnt do it so i really dont want to hear that he is doing all that he can for the American people.  that is a joke!  however, dumb people continue to buy into his rhetoric.  as i said in a post months ago, there was no real oversight and that would come back to bite them and it did!  I do thank God for two democratic Senators and most of the republicans for acting responsbility and vowing not to vote for wasting our money in this latest bill.  tatoo removal money would go a long way in feeding the homeless but i guess that is not what democrats and a few republicans are interested in, huh?
  • davidwwalters72
    Jackie(225)......
    <<
    see the difference between you and me is that i dont want anyone on either side in Washington if they do not work for the American people.
    >>
    -U
    hm......
    thats why im so glad the Bush Administration is history.....
    and why do you think it would be dangerous for many members of Bushs former administration to travel to Europe?
    -War Crimes seems to be against the law to some......
    http://www.un.org/icc/crimes.htm
    But back to your point.....<< people who voted for change are now getting a huge bad taste in their months in your party.>>
    -Not as bad as you may think, because most adults realize that tax cuts for the wealthiest, and deregulation of our banking, investment, and insurance sector was a huge mistake.  Now, i doubt you see it that way.....perhaps you are in a state of denial like MichaelR.
  • Dora
    titus/jackie:

    re: your post #217

    If, Jackie, IF you continue to listen to only one source of "news"  (as you clearly do with your repetition of Faux News talking points which conveniently omit FACTS in their dismay and dismissal of Obamas first two months in office)- you will continue to not get it.   You are completely comfortable- as is Michael- to blame the have- nots -who were essentially powerless to have created the financial debacle we all now face.   
    The bogus derivitives that destroyed the artificial bubble effected everything down the line.  The deregulation that was allowed effected everything down the line.  
    It seems that you are content to point fingers at who represents blame for the cause of the current mess- unless it points directly in your direction.   Your ideology, your heros ideology, and your refusal to see how complicit these were in contributing to the woes are not just laughable- its pathetic. 
    You will be hard pressed to find a single progressive who does not fault Clinton for his participation in this- but he was hardly the cause.  
    You really need to set aside your notions as to what political party caused this- because it was a joint effort.  
    David has clearly set out for you the reprecussons suffered by all with the repeal of Glass-Steagall .   You have  intentional and convienent blindness to  the underlying factors that created the climate and a recipe for disaster. 
    You would do well with some remedial classes in world economics- you are non-functional and not credible with your dated material.
  • Dora
    case in point, jackie:
    Like OReilly, Hannity misrepresented Obama remark to falsely claim he made a "campaign promise" to allow "no earmarks"

    if you want to rally your base of knuckle draggers...all you have to do is rattle their cages... never mind the truth... just stir up the mud puddle to cloud the waters... it seems to have worked on you, jackie.
    now... whats next? your misrepresentation of the free choice act?
    you still want to deny that you base your talking points on noise from Faux "News"?
  • Dora
    you can go ahead and believe that you have entered the enlightened age by tweeting on twitter-  (kinda late there too...but thats another story)  but here is whats actually happening to actual thinking Republicans who see their party with no leadership, no ideas, and no clue.


    Mayor of Waldport quits the GOP; decries "worn-out ideology"

    Kari Chisholm

    The Mayor of Waldport, Herman Welch, has abandoned the Republican Party with a stinging rebuke in a letter to the editor of the Oregonian:
    At the age of 74 and after 53 years, I have finally quit the Republican Party and have re-registered as an independent voter.
    Most of us understand that the presidents economic recovery program is not perfect and perhaps has flaws. But we also understand that our country is in the midst of a very serious crisis. The president understands the gravity of the problem and is trying to do something about it.
    The Republicans in Congress (except for the three who put their country first and set aside party ideology by voting for the stimulus bill) have offered no constructive economic recovery ideas except to continue tax cuts for the rich (if any are left) and offer only worn-out ideology.
    I still believe in having political parties that engage in vigorous constructive dialogue on economic issues, but as President Obama said recently, "When the town is burning you dont check party labels. Everybody needs to grab a hose."
    <><><><><>
    Your ultra-right wing left-overs have become the media fodder that they should be.   Rightly marginalized for their constant misrepresentations, refusals, and hypocritical attitudes.  The Great Obstructionist Party - formerly the GOP- will, at their current rate-  go the way of 8 track tapes and polyester suits.   You have no one to blame but yourselves. Twitter noise from your camp is the same noise that comes from the wing-nuts here- just in a different forum.  Hate to break it to you, but when your front yard is a mess- moving to the back yard to view does not change the fact that your front yard is still a mess.  You just dont have it in your sights.
     
     
  • HWStone
    you still want to deny that you base your talking points on noise from Faux "News"?
    and do you still want to give talking points from PMSNBC.  Dora, when you get out of high school you will realize that stupid Faux News comments are childish.
  • Dora
    "Dora, when you get out of high school you will realize that stupid Faux News comments are childish."

    please note the use by the ditto-head above
    "PMSNBC" - now that took a high-school brain.  do you do fart jokes too, Stoned?

    HW Stoned:  FOX aka FAUX News has continued to misrepresent facts... the example above regarding "earmarks" is just one example of this.  Titus/Jackie here quoted this same blabbering nonsense regarding the "earmarks promise" .  My post demonstrated exactly where she, Hannity, and OReilly were dead wrong. 




  • Dirty Jacksons
    Maybe its because liberals have better things to do like.....a life.
  • Dora
    tax cuts do nothing for the middle class individual with no job due to layoffs, outsourcing,  or business failure... behind or falling behind on monthly bills- including mortgage payments- or those families already in tent cities that are taking form around the country.   tax cuts do nothing for those seeking employments.  tax cuts to the top 2% of the nations wealthy have proven to be nothing but pocket lining for the lucky few. 
    additionally, warren buffet has amassed a personal fortune but even warren is not always correct- like his response regarding the employee free choice act where he entirely misrepresented the bill- jackie- his "facts" were WRONG.  just as your "facts" were wrong regarding the earmarks and obama.   buffet has lost billions during this economic mess- hes fortunate that he has a cushion- 97% of the country do not have this luxury.    there is not a single person or business not effected  by the ongoing crisis - whether directly or indirectly. 
    its comical, really, watching the republicans now pinch their collective butts together and scream about "spend....spend... spend democrats" and they are putting their foot down.  oh?  really?  why now?  where were these indignant responses when ronnie outspent up the wazoo?  where were these indignant responses when bush never saw a spending bill- complete with pork- that he would veto?
    your buds in washington currently have participated disproportionally by inserting their own pet projects/ "pork" into the bills presently - so stop with the rhetoric on this.  6 out of 10 "pork" items were inserted by REPUBLICANS.  
    rational discussion can only proceed when all of the facts are on the table.  Fox "news" is unable to do this.  I would be pleased to show you hundreds of instances where they have proclaimed outrage over a particular item while conviently leaving out key facts.  you and others here have repeated their false "information" - you then announce that you have formulated your opinion  (based upon this false info)  Fox is by no means the only ones guilty of this.   i have said repeatedly that getting bias-free info is not going to come from talking heads from either side of an issue.  
    its a sad state of affairs when "the fourth estate" - which should be the microscope... has, instead,  become the echo chamber. 
    their entire reason detre has become ratings.  if this means the "t & a" segment to keep eyeballs on their screen- or manufacturing/insisting upon controversy where there is actually none- they ALL participate in this. 
    frankly, i dont see this getting any better any time soon.  why? people have forgotten how to read.   the "instant gratification-cut to the chase" attitude prevents individuals to fully grasp issues and ideas-  people, armed with minimal information  want immediate results with no understanding as to the complexity of issues at hand.
  • davidwwalters72
    Dora (228)....
    <<
    if you want to rally your base of knuckle draggers...all you have to do is rattle their cages... never mind the truth... just stir up the mud puddle to cloud the waters...>>

    In (211), i wrote to one  of the conservative champions........."I deftly countered your argument with the fact that the machinations of former Sen. Phil Gramm
    -(Republican from Texas, and former chairman of the Senate banking Committee)......was the mechanism that allowed the deregulation of Wall Street, banking, and insurance.  This led to a method of making vast sums of money from changing sub-prime loans into AAA bonds and selling them.  The origination fees and the profit on the sale of bonds generated vast sums of wealth for this small set of people i mentioned above.  Nowhere did you counter this argument, except to attack the messenger(me), and as i said....THAT IS THE SURE SIGN OF A LOSER."
    This authors reply, was not to answer it, but to feign humorous outrage: <<Ohhhhh, thank you for that little laugh....wait a minute........"deftly" countered my argument.....oh my god! that is rich! rich I say! How do you even come back on this?  Are you even serious?  "deftly countered" I love this guy!!!! No shame, living in his own dream world.>> -(221) ......i would suppose the author s intention is to impress some with his seemingly knowledge of a complicated subject.  He attempts to add a bit of humor, all meant to take our attention away.
    But he never seems to address former Senator Phil Gramms role in the deregulation of the same industry he is a part of......
    "Blowing smoke" is the term the former senior enlisted man of my old battalion, Sgt. Maj Forsythe.......
    used to use to describe a Bullshitter.
    -Michael is a good example of this.  "just stir up the mud puddle to cloud the waters..."
    -Thanx Dora
  • Dora
    based upon your highly intellectual response, titus- ("stay in your hole") it would seem that your connection with anything to do with finance would be to empty the waste baskets and dust the fixtures.
    im not interested in your accusations since what you have said here have been repeatedly  proven incorrect over and over again.  you have misrepresented facts and seem proud to have done this.   your vast generalizations are as irrational and as frequent as the host of this site- and those he has designated to post in his place.
    david and i, simonesdad, harrysmom,  have all taken you and others here to task for constantly manipulating and misrepresenting facts.
    your reply?  "what are you doing here anyway!  this is a conservative site. you dont like it...leave." 
    wow... how very mature.
    i doubt that i would like you in person, titus-  i enjoy rational, logical, factual discussions- you will have none of this because your personal right wingnut ideology prevents you from opening your ears and eyes to the ideas, interests, and needs of others.  
    i dont live in a hole, maam.  i live in reality.  you should try it sometime.
  • Titus Hunt
    Dora--you may enjoy rational, logical, factual discussions but you cant produce them.  you leave out pertinent information and facts in your arguments because it is apparent that you cant put all of the pieces of the puzzle together.  they are selective at best.  go ahead and argue with economists who are giving obama an "F."  are you an expert in the economy?  what is your degree in again and how can you argue with them?  Buffet was on obamas side at first until he saw what obama was actually all about.  Buffet is successful at business and understands this economy and the markets.  so blow his expertise off if you so choose.  i guess if i were obamas puppet, i would too!  the interests of others is exactly what i have in mind.  obviously obamas rhetoric is like a recording in your head and you have to repeat every chance you get.  look at the economists opinions and look at the mess the treasury is in and if you can put the pieces of the puzzle together, you will be ashamed of your comments.  what is it going to take to show you and all of the other left-winged nuts that even people in your own party are not happy with his policies.  the experts are starting to scream also.  your comments are so predictable and easy to dispute because they are wrong!  since i understand the markets and the economy, you present no challenge to me and your posts are funny!
  • davidwwalters72
    <<you have misrepresented facts and seem proud to have done this.   your vast generalizations are as irrational and as frequent as the host of this site- and those he has designated to post in his place.
    david and i, simonesdad, harrysmom,  have all taken you and others here to task for constantly manipulating and misrepresenting facts.
    >>-Dora(235)
    -Yes Dora, swhy im here.....to dispel the myth of the hard working producers, many who use other peoples 401Ks to produce money.....and now these same people who have profited from the industry that was deregulated almost 10 years ago, walk away with their golden parachutes while the 401Ks are trash.  They seem content to merely place blame on the segment of the population that is least likely to be able to defend themselves, in a way which the Jews found themselves to blame for Germanys defeat in 1918.
    While working as a construction engineer on road projects, it amazed me to talk to contractors (...... many who are republicans) who decried so-called government waste (.....welfare, food stamps) while all the time they were so willing to cheat the taxpayers who were paying for that project.
    I want to dispel the myth of lazy, American-hating liberals the right wing neander-cons want to present us to be.  I doubt many have toiled as hard as i......maybe some, but theyd probably have to have earned a Ranger Tab, or an SF tab.....or were/are a SEAL.....
    I want to dispel the myth that to vote for any defense spending bill is NOT necessarily supporting a stronger America.  In fact we can make America stronger by strategic cuts in the pentagons budget.
    These neander-cons have had their chance -and they blew it.  Now they cry like little children now that they have to pay more taxes, or deal with some silly regulation that perhaps protects workers safety.....
    Its time to grow up guys!
  • Dora
    lets watch how big the GOP tent is... hmmm... lets see... it took them 5 ballots to install a party head.  (oh lookie, we found somebody ...and hes black too... that will show them!  just like we found a skirt to place on the ticket... aka Sarah Palen... that will show them!... just like we got a minority gov. to give the rebuttal to obamas address... that will certainly show them!)

    hmmm... so,  Mr. Steele speaks his opinion... oh oh... he spoke against the Rush blob... better make an apology... he speaks his opinion again... oh oh... wrong opinion- we need a recall...!!!!
    a vote of no confidence!!!! HURRY! 

    lol... you people crack me up.
    carry on.
  • Dora
    more right wingnut GOPers eating their own... their cruelty knows no bounds, it seems. 


    Laura Ingraham mocks Meghan McCain as being ‘plus-sized.’

    but on the good side, poor, poor Ann Coulter s book sales are in the toilet... awwwww.   you suppose people are fed up with her needless and relentless unfounded cruelty?
    no doubt.

    carry on
  • Michael
    "eating their own..."
    I was thinking the same thing about the Left wingers and on a much more news worthy note when Jim Cramer who backed Obama said he is responsible for more wealth destruction than anyone in American history and when Warren Buffet, another Obama supporter, spoke out against the misguided economic strategies of this administration.  I will take plus size comments all day long vs "Obama is destroying the life savings of millions" talk about eating their own and now the very ones who speak out against the greatest market collapse of any president in history are being attacked, just as suredly as both David and Dora will try do, but remember, they are Democrats, so eat away!!!!!

  • Titus Hunt
    ...or how about at a time of economic crisis in this country, the treasury department has no plan for the credit mess and hasnt even filled key positions.  that really restores confidence--not!  well today they came out with new polls and obamas ratings are slipping faster than Bushs did at his same point in office.  thank goodness some people are finally seeing the light.  i know our children and grandchildren will be paying for this wasted money unfortunately.  of course, there is word that another "stimulus" package is in the works.  oh boy!
  • Michael
    Titus,
    Could you imagine rationalizing doing this in your personal finances.  You just got a pay cut and to remedy the loss in income, you max out your credit cards by taking cash advances.  That works for a while, but at some point the money has to be payed back with interest. 

    We borrow the money from China and they come out today with the statement,
    "Of course we are concerned about the security of our assets and, to speak truthfully, I do have some worries," Wen said.  "I would like, through you, to once again request America to maintain their trustworthiness, keep their promise and guarantee the safety of Chinese assets."

    Not much different when you take a mortgage out on your home and technically the bank owns it until that mortgage is satisfied.
  • Dora
    you can imagine that democrats are upset if it makes you feel better... your slob, Rush- called for all of the disgruntled Hillary supporters to rise up... cept that there were none of any note and this "infighting" was a creation of the media-  you can call yourself whatever you wish if it makes you feel better... but you dragged out an obscure failure of a mayor and governor with serious ethics problems to run on your ticket who was woefully unqualified ...  and she proved it over and over again... just by opening her mouth... so they had to squirrel her away...  and you wanted to look "hip" with a black GOP leader who is not allowed to speak his opinion... and your Jiminy Gov. made a fool of himself by being completely unaware of what was actually in the stimulus bill... (a high speed train to disneyland and vegas... the fact that he sounded like Jiminy Cricket was a bonus...  lol) but you are just blowing smoke.  the base is (and that would include you both michael and titus) solidly made up of bible thumpers and closed minds.   only fundalmentalist christians need apply.  
    good luck with that.
    oh...and kramer is anything but a liberal... so you can poke at him all you wish... hes all yours.   hes morning joes buddy... not mine.
  • Michael
    "you can imagine that democrats are upset if it makes you feel better"
    And you can imagine that throwing Rushs name out there is something people are ashamed of....arent his ratings up 32% now thanks to useful fools like yourself?
    solidly made up of bible thumpers and closed minds

    That sure reeks of religious bigotry.  You and David both need to get over your racism and bigotry somehow.  You see Steele only as a "black GOP leader" come on, look beyond the skin color Dora, see beyond the religious affiliations of others and then you too may become accepting of people who are not like you.
  • Michael
    We can never move to a post racial society with people like Dora and David.  It is people like this who bash republicans for racist ties in their past when Senators like Robert Byrd have racist ties in their present and continue to get re-elected by those who are "enlightened" like these two libs. 

    I want us all to be Americans as the Conservative vision gives equal opportunity rather than defining everyone by race or sex the way the Democrat primary illustrated is alive and well in the American Left.  Get over it!  We have.
  • Michael
    ...and kramer is anything but a liberal...

    Obviously you dont know Cramer!  Do some research before you start spouting off will ya.
  • Titus Hunt
    Michael:  you are correct again!  it is interesting that dora doesnt think people should bring up her beliefs in her personal life (i agree with it also); however, she doesnt have a problem bringing up others beliefs and criticizing them?  is this hypocrisy?  i think so especially since no one is bringing up religion, and there is no evidence that you or I have closed minds--just educated ones!  i guess she thinks we give a damn about her criticism and left winged ideals!  well let me say.................!  i have never read anything but facts in your posts and i try to back up mine with them also.  i guess facts are not for those who are followers of obama due to his "hope" and "change" rhetoric.  i guess they go on blind faith of some sort.  oh wait a minute--that is some kind of religion isnt it--faith!  obamas policies and words are out there for everyone to hear and read.  those of us who actually pay attention understand the consequences of them.  we also understand the outcome is going to ruin this country.  wonder what hypnotist liberals use?  ill bet he/she is wealthy.  Doras comments are perfect examples of the radicals in this country.  oh and by the way, i think she must have a crush on Rush because that is her main focus lately.  i dont listen to him just because i dont listen to the radio much and only know about him through TV interviews and excerpts.  however, for a liberal she sure seems to follow his every word.  that is interesting.  he can now name is price and get a huge raise when his contract expires.  it is folks like her that will ensure he stays on for years to come.  i have liked the little ive heard from him but dont know enough about him to really have an opinion so keep it up, Dora.  i thank you and so do his listeners!  saying that Cramer is not a liberal just shows her lack of knowledge and is consistent with all of her posts.  the intolerance in this nation is coming from the left, and they dont have any limitations on how low they will go.  unfortunately morals and values are not important to them, and the spewing of hatred seems to be neverending.  That doesnt sound American to me!  Maybe they are not being PATRIOTIC!  lol!
  • Titus Hunt
    I built my first little house (1300 sq ft) at age 21.  i didnt have an education except for high school and 10 months at a business college at the time.  the money came from both of us working jobs that paid a little above minimum wage.  we were extremely poor at the time.  it was tough but i never thought about living above my means and maxing out credit cards, etc.   i also never considered getting government assistance and would never had taken it if he was offered.  i would never have been able to show my face in public again because of the shame.  there was no family support either.  in all my years of buying houses and as many offers as ive had, i never once would have considered an arm loan or any other kind of unconventional mortgage for my home.  even at a very young age, i always wanted a fixed payment to ensure i could pay for it.  so i have never understood other people living beyond their means and not being responsible for the debts incurred.  i guess i wanted my word to mean something so i was careful not to sign papers i didnt fully understand.  if there was no money in my checking account i didnt buy anything.  that is just called being responsible.  this concept was applied when my son was born.  i never thought the government should pay for my childs education, breakfast or lunch.  it was my responsibility.  if i could not afford to take care of my son, i should not have had him. These philosophies are now followed by my grown son.  going out and borrowing money for everything was never an option.  it is interesting that the government thinks China will continue to buy our paper.  obama bases his policies on the "hope" that China will continue to lend to us.  that is not rational thinking!  the policies are based on assumptions that are unrealistic to say the least.  the money tree (China) is not guaranteed to produce.  obama and his party cant continue to dig us further into debt.  the consequences are to big to ignore.  his energy plan is not appropriate during this time or for the next few years.  our utility bills and prices everything we buy will increase.  can everyone afford this?  this is common sense.  the garbage obama and the democrats are selling is only being bought by the stupid!  they are not going to take responsiblity for their policy failures and will continue to dig us into a deeper hole.  they have no morals or values and do not represent what this country stands for.  it is sad that we dont have a real leader.  he has no experience and is out of his league.  instead of tackling the economy first and then medicaid, medicare and social security, he wants to work on his new healthcare non-plan!  instead of ensuring they hire people in the treasury to help with the credit crisis, he would rather try to divert the attention to something else.  ...and who would vote for this idiot?  not anyone that i associate with thank goodness!  even my democrat friends voted republican this time!
  • Michael
    "the intolerance in this nation is coming from the left, and they dont have any limitations on how low they will go."
    There is a real irony in todays Acorn driven National Socialist American Workers Party and that is for every tactic they employee to drive people away from talk radio, Fox News, or here, on a conservative blog backfires in that it just takes moderates and exposes them to a form of media that they have heard about, but want to see for themselves.  That gives Conservatism a chance to make their case and compare and contrast to the non-stop liberal media that we have been imprisoned by for a lifetime.

    Case in point, Rush, numbers have grown by 11 million since Obama told Americans to stop listening.  Bloggers such as myself and Titus are driven to come back time and time again, not to simply agree with one another, but to make the conservative counterarguments for others to read.  I would be interested to see the stats for this site just from the back and forth that began over housing a month or so ago.  I know people that are now reading this blog and do so daily now just to see the ongoing argument because they want to see other people out there saying what they know to be true.

    This blog is driven by people like Dora and David.  They provide the irrational leftist argument that makes conservatism and Republicanism by extension more attractive to those who do not share racist, bigoted, misinformed ideology.  So although I disagree, I thank you in a way because I would have been bored with this long ago if it wasnt for the daily back and forth that Dora and David are so happy to dish out.
  • Michael
    If people like Dora and David didnt exist, the Republican National Committee would invent them.  They are a resource, they are useful fools.
  • davidwwalters72
    Michael(....needs a rug)R  (245).....
    <<
    We can never move to a post racial society with people like Dora and David.  It is people like this who bash republicans for racist ties in their past when Senators like Robert Byrd have racist ties in their present and continue to get re-elected by those who are "enlightened" like these two libs.
    >>

    -I
    n
    1948  U.S.A, most southern democrats were racists, and most Dixiecrats became.......You guessed it,
    -Republicans!(.........Can you say Strom Thurmond, or Jesse Helms?)
    Notice, I said most.  Just a fact for you to digest Michael.
    -Dont live in West Virginia, so i never had the opportunity to vote against Sen. Byrd.
    ......and even though i voted for Reagan once, I NEVER voted for Jessie Helms......(-though i did wind up in line once, just behind Jesse& his wife about 10 years ago at a cafeteria @ Cameron Village in Raleigh......i refuse to shake that old ass-holes hand when he extended it....)

    <<
    If people like Dora and David didnt exist, the Republican National Committee would invent them.  They are a resource, they are useful fools.
    >>-(250)
    And to quote a senile dick....."-there you go again......."
    Name calling, tsk,tsk......what a tiny person(....note i couldnt abuse the word man to refer to you MichaelR.
  • Michael
    That is hilarious!  You call Ronald Reagan a "dick" and then turn right around, technically in the same sentence and say I am name calling.  I am pointing out an attribute found over and over again in both your and Doras post, racism and bigotry.  That is a defining a characteristic of your ideology.  Dick is name calling you "tiny person" you.

    See, this is the stuff that keeps me coming back again and again.
  • Michael
    "In 1948  U.S.A, most southern democrats were racists, and most Dixiecrats became.......You guessed it,
    -Republicans!"
    And the true KKK stayed....you guessed it,
    Democrats

    Robert Byrd, current W. Virginia Senator re-elected 8 times by Democrats
    "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia" and "in every state in the Union." this in a letter to Imperial Wizard of the KKK 3 years after he said he left the Klan.

    Robert Byrd, re-elected 8 times by a Democrat party that can relate to
    "with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds." This in another letter after he "left" the Klan regarding black integration into the armed forces.

    And on a recent note..."There are white niggers. Ive seen a lot of white niggers in my time. Im going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and Id just as soon quit talking about it so much." Senator Robert Byrd, 8 time re-elected Democrat Senator from the great state of Virginia. But the copy doesnt do it justice, here is the video...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FIBJt-c2o0

    So David didnt vote for him just like I never cast a vote for either Strom or Jesse, one of which died back in 86 the other in 93 yet you leave out the one racist who is still in the SENATE under your own party. 

    The difference between we Conservatives and you Liberals is that you have no capacity for SHAME.  I would be ashamed to be affiliated with a party that today, 2009 still has a racist in office with a big D next to his name.  No criticism, no petitions to drive him out of office...not so long as he is a DEMOCRAT.  I would be embarrassed to say I was affiliated with a racist party that would allow the re-election, and the continued funding of campaigns for 8 consecutive times of a Klansman.  I am ashamed for you if you do not have the capacity to feel it for yourself.
  • JackieM
    I dont think democrats understand the word "shame."
  • davidwwalters72
    Michael(253)
    <<
    And the true KKK stayed....you guessed it,
    Democrats>>
    -T
    h
    is is simply false.  All Klan pukes are NRA supporters.....how many NRA supporters are democrat?  Very few would be the correct answer. 
    Do you really want to bring up the racist records of Senators Jesse Helm & Strom Thurmond?  And the work of Lee Atwater?  Youd be treading on thin ice.  Ive slammed you enough, i doubt you can take the constant beating.
    hell, youve even begun to have massive memory loss.  Saying you havent refered to me as a fool or an idiot?  "No capacity for SHAME?"  Quite a reference to your record here on this blog.
  • SeanS
    "Youd be treading on thin ice.  Ive slammed you enough, i doubt you can take the constant beating."

    David,
    You need to wake up buddy!  I dont know what blog you have been reading but you may be the last person on here that doesnt realize that Michael R. cleans the floor with you.  He is kicking you around like a rag doll and you just keep coming back with stupid stuff.  I see it, others on here see it but you seem blind to the fact. 

    Oh well seeing you get kicked around is still entertaining so keep going!
  • SeanS
    "This is simply false"
    which part David is false?????

    And the true KKK stayed....you guessed it,
    Democrats
    Robert Byrd, current W. Virginia Senator re-elected 8 times by Democrats
    "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia" and "in every state in the Union." this in a letter to Imperial Wizard of the KKK 3 years after he said he left the Klan.
    Robert Byrd, re-elected 8 times by a Democrat party that can relate to
    "with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds." This in another letter after he "left" the Klan regarding black integration into the armed forces.
    And on a recent note..."There are white niggers. Ive seen a lot of white niggers in my time. Im going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and Id just as soon quit talking about it so much." Senator Robert Byrd, 8 time re-elected Democrat Senator from the great state of Virginia. But the copy doesnt do it justice, here is the video...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FIBJt-c2o0
  • SeanS
    It is funny, I know the term "useful idiots" and what it means.  It is entertaining to watch Micheal R dance around you and you dont even realize it.  You arent even intelegent enough David to know what he is saying about you to respond.  LMAO daily, keep it up URBANCONSERVATIVE.
  • davidwwalters72
    SeanS(257)......
    Michael R. cleans the floor with me?  -By
    avoiding addressing how deregulation is NOT the culprit in our current economic crisis?  Really?
    <<.............
    and you just keep coming back with stupid stuff.>>
    -L
    ike
    explaining how Deregulation of Banking, Investments, and Underwriting by GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY & THE COMMODITY FUTURES MODERNIZATION ACT....thanx to Michaels hero, former Texas Senator
    Phil Gramm....
    Prior to  GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY & THE COMMODITY FUTURES MODERNIZATION ACT,  "....credit default swaps (insurance on credit securities) were allowed but were regulated. In 1999, credit default swaps became unregulated allowing insurers to issue the swaps without any reserves causing the market to balloon from about $900 billion to between $50-$70 trillion within 7 years."-davidwwalters(224)
    Michaels retort?  He DOES NOT really address this, but he begins by name callin (......you know, the sure sign of a loser)
    << I would define you as not just being intellectually dishonest or an intellectual fraud, but rather an intellectual coward.>>-(207)
    ......Or
    some type of deflection.....such as (221).
    (257)<<which part David is false?????>>
    -The part about overt&covert racism as being an integral part of the democrat party.  Overt&covert racism HAS&IS integral to republican party........
    "White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories? -Jesse Helms .......-This was in 1950....<<Ancient history? No. Helms remains unapologetic to this day. Forty years after the Smith campaign, Helms would win election against black opponent Harvey Gantt with another ad playing to racist white fear--the so-called "white hands"ad, in which a white mans hands crumple a rejected job application while a voice over intones, "You needed that job...but they had to give it to a minority.">>- http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1871
    Another Lee Atwater inspired ad......
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/atwater/
    -Check it out.  Its not just Helms, its Karl Rove, Warren Tompkins and others who were schooled by Lee (...didnt he die of brain cancer?)Atwater.  This IS republican policy. NOT the democrats.  So, get your fact straight SeanS.
  • davidwwalters72
    -Just to be fair, yes, Robert Byrd is a racist......but racism IS NOT part and parcel of democrat party operations, obviously.  Robert Byrd is an enigma, but Lee Atwater, Karl Rove, and Warren Tompkins arent.  They ARE the guys who get republicans elected by appealing to that segment of the white population which remains racist.  It is a sometimes not so subtle method, and it has worked wonders for the party(GOP) in the past, but it seems to be loosing its luster these days.  Perhaps because the old racist are dying, and new voters seem to reject this forms of racism.  Michael Steele is no remedy either.
  • Michael
    Robert Byrd is an enigma,

    Robert Byrd is still in office and has been put there 8 consecutive times by appealing to that segment of the white population which remains racist. "There are white niggers. Ive seen a lot of white niggers in my time. Im going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and Id just as soon quit talking about it so much."


    Vice President Biden.
    "You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. Im not joking"
    "[Obama] first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

    Obama campaign about Hillary Clinton
    “There’s a groundswell of reaction to these comments — and not just these latest comments but really a pattern, or a series of comments that we’ve heard for several months,” she said. “Folks are beginning to wonder: Is this really an isolated situation, or is there something bigger behind all of this?”

    I can keep going down this route as well David.  See, this is where you misunderstand the term "useful fool" you give me reason to put all this information out, day after day after day and it all becomes searchable, never goes away.  If it wasnt for you and Dora, this thread would have been  15 post Twitter, and who cares about that?  Now it is about the racist comments of the left that are immortalized on this site, searchable by Google within a day of my hitting "submit comment"
    Thank you, keep going!
  • Michael
    "No. Helms remains unapologetic to this day"David W Walters
    The man is dead, dont expect anything anytime soon.  Byrd is still alive however, sitting in the Senate, showing up on Fox saying "White Niggers".
  • davidwwalters72
    Michael....
    -G
    o
    ing from one indefensible position (...... Phil Gramms work in the Senate for deregulation had no effect on our current economic crisis,...) to another (Hey! Its those pesky democrats who are the REAL racists!)
    Tire of defending the illustrious Phil Gramm?

    <<
    The man(.....Jesse Helms) is dead, dont expect anything anytime soon.>>-(261)
    .....and so
    is Lee Atwater, but what of his minions  (Karl Rove, and Warren Tompkins)?  uh, did you just forget? 
    -Is overt&covert racism an integral part of the democrat party?  You can cite utterances that lack class, but can you find instances of a POLICY within the democrat party that is racist? Youd have to look back a number of years.
    -Yet i broke it down for your boy SeanS in (258).
    Overt&covert racism HAS&IS integral to republican party........ Did you ever hear of Nixons "Southern Strategy"?  Care to explain how that wasnt appealing to the racist tendencies of white, southern democrats? 
    "The sad truth is that many Republican leaders remain in a massive state of denial about the partys four-decade-long addiction to race-baiting."-Jack White, Time Magazine
  • JackieM
    David--my AA friends, who didnt vote for obama, dont like him for a lot of reasons--one being is that they didnt like his use of the race card.  they said the democrats were the ones that played it in this campaign.  they could not believe that obama stooped that low.  so apparently obama is about race.
  • davidwwalters72
    JackieM....
    -At the risk of being branded a racist by Michael for pointing out republican racism......
    -At a campaign rally on Oct. 6 in Florida, Sarah Palin declared  Obama is "not one of us?" Why is he not one of us.....To some of my redneck friends in Moore County, it simply means Obama is a N****r.  And who can forget the campaign worker in Pa. who claimed an "attack" by some black man because she had a McCain button on?
    Jackie, as i have laid out above, it IS the policy of the republican party since Richard Nixons 68 campaign to appeal to racist tendencies among some voters.  I said SOME....and to these voters, it becomes clear that the republican party is the party that will support their racist views.  I remember the so-called "Southern Strategy"  -What do you suppose that meant?  In the aftermath of the Civil Rights Acts of the mid 60s, white hatred was corralled by Nixons move.  I remember hearing Joe Mac H. walking into the cafeteria at Horace Sisk Jr. High in April 1968.  The TVs were tuned into the funeral of Dr. King......for the benefit of the all black cafeteria staff.  Joe Mac yelled out-  "Lets watch em plant the N****r!"  Where did he get that line from?  His dad maybe?  Another Jesse Helms supporter, im sure.
    And who can forget the "Willy Horton" ad, produced by the infamous Lee Atwater, the mentor of Karl Rove......Naw, that wasnt racist.
    So, what was it about Obama that was racist again?  For attending Rev. Wrights church?  Hell, most of what Jeremiah said was fact.  Angry, but fact.  Americas policies with respect to people of color hasnt always been fair, and the good Reverend pointed this out, if not eloquently, -factually. Racism seems to be going to the grave with its supporters, and young voters dont seem to be inheriting this shame.
    Anyway Jackie, my hat is off to ya for takin it One Day at a Time....   :)
  • JackieM
    David--my friends said obama threw out the race card and it wasnt about the church he attended.  i remember his comparisons in his rhetoric.  i cannot believe you have forgotten that already.  besides that one of my AA friends was pissed because he didnt like obama bringing up his father in a positive light when obamas father left him and his mom when he was about 2 years old.  his father was a deadbeat and my friend could not believe he was trying to use the race card only when it suited him.  he thought obamas grandmother, who was white, should have been mentioned much more since she raised him.  in addition, Sarah Palin was speaking of being normal average folks when she said obama is not like us.  she was speaking of being folks who live in smaller communities that toil with their hands.  i remember when she said it and knew exactly what she meant.  i dont understand why you guys take things out of context.  that one was simple and didnt even have anything to do with a persons skin color. 

    your comment-Anyway Jackie, my hat is off to ya for takin it One Day at a Time....
    i know you were joking but i dont know what this was referring to and missed it!
  • davidwwalters72
    JackieM(265)......
    <<
    your comment-Anyway Jackie, my hat is off to ya for takin it One Day at a Time....
    i know you were joking but i dont know what this was referring to and missed it!>>
    .......U
    h,
    i made an assumption.  -My Bad.  No, i was serious, i was assuming you had a substance abuse problem(....nothing to be ashamed of, BTW).

    <<
    (He) was pissed because he didnt like
    obama bringing up his father in a positive light......he thought obamas grandmother, who was white, should have been mentioned much more since she raised him>>
    -I really didnt see that.  If your friend saw it in that light, well it appears that he has a predisposed to find any reason to dislike Obama.
    Did your friend not remember Nixons "Southern Strategy"?  Did he not recall Sarah Palins rallies (particularly the one in Clearwater, Fla.), where one of her supporters shouted out clearly and audibly, "Kill Him!"
    -This THE primary reason i cannot hold my nose and vote republican.  They pander to the worst instincts among some Americans.
  • JackieM
    David--as a responsible parent of a 23-year old and an adoptive parent of a toddler, i am insulted that you would say such a thing.  even though ive made mistakes as everyone has, i have always lead my life with conservative values.  therefore, i do take offense that you would even talk about drugs when referring to me.  i assure you i try to lead by setting good examples, especially since im all about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! you know--those two dirty words democrats cant seem to grasp completely!  

    My friend was not old enough to remember the Nixon times, David and i barely remember them.  some of us try to look at what is happening today.  historical references are good as long as they help in some way.  these references do not.  you are trying throw up situations that are irrevelant today because most people dont feel that way  ....and no, according to my AA friend, he read obamas book to get a better understanding of who he is.  so he did understand that obama tried to relate to black community by referencing his father time and time again but it was only when he wanted to relate to that community was his father mentioned.  i happened to not have caught that but my friend said that it was obvious to a lot of the black community whether they admit it or not.  your comment about someone in Palins audience is funny.  what does one person have to do with a whole party, esp. since the nut was not affiliated with the leadership of the party?  how can a party control a few nuts?  is this a communist country, David?  i seem to recall McCain standing up for obama when a woman called him a muslim.  was it McCains fault this happened?  are you joking?  McCain should have been commended by the democratic party for that but guess what?  i know you can guess!  i cant remember the whole campaign but i seem to recall similar things happening while obama was speaking and obama didnt stop it but McCain did!  So it is ok for nut jobs to shout things like that during obamas rhetoric but nuts that show up during a republican rally cant, is that right, David?  McCain even addressed this again in an interview and said it was wrong.  where was obamas statement?  i guess he avoided the subject as he is avoiding answering the "hard" questions on his policies.  where is the proof these people on either side were sane or for either party, david?  what kind of screening would you suggest the republican party do for each person coming to their campaign stops?  im sure you would not want democrats to be held to the same standards, correct?  hmmmm!  i smell hypocrisy here!  now any sane person knows that anything negative that happens involving obama, the mainstream media and MSNBC and usually CNN will not make a big deal out of it.  however, when the tables are turned, these outlets are all over it.  its time you start looking at both sides before you judge!  that is why im here, David!
  • JackieM
    by the way, David--what do you suppose obama had in mind when he said that he didnt look like the norm?  i forget the whole speech but he was referring to his skin color.  hmmm!  that is racism if ive ever heard it!
  • davidwwalters72
    <<what do you suppose obama had in mind when he said that he didnt look like the norm?  i forget the whole speech but he was referring to his skin color.  hmmm!  that is racism if ive ever heard it!>>-JackieM(268)
    -C
    on
    sidering, that the 43 predecessors of Obamas were all white, he is stating the obvious.  How, again is that racist?    However, appealing to latent white bigotry and hatred as has been the republican party policy since 1968 IS a prime example of covert racism.  And covert racism is what is behind the notion that our economic crisis is due to banks being forced to give low income loans to economically challenged people(codeword: minorities).
    Again, Why did Nixon engage in his "Southern Strategy"?  Why did Lee Atwater produce the Willie Horton ad?  Why didnt Sarah Palin condemn the audience member who shouted out, "Kill Him!"?
    -This is GOP policy.....COVERT RACISM.

    (267)....<<
    .......therefore, i do take offense that you would even talk about drugs when referring to me.>>-My apologizesHowever......my assumption was based upon your statement in (263).......

    <<
    David--my AA friends, who didnt vote for obama, dont like him for a lot of reasons--one being is that they didnt like his use of the
    race card. >>-(263)
    .....Like i said, my bad.  My assumption was your friend was from an AA meeting.
  • JackieM
    see there!  im not "in the know" of AA in the way you are referring to!  perhaps i need to start attending the PWASODI meetings (people who are scared of democratic ideals meetings)!  it would definitely be a packed house!  that wouldnt solve my issues with the democrats but I would get a lot of laughs out of it! 

    obama was definitely a racist when he discussed the differences in his skin and didnt stick to policies.   people that i know in the AA community agree and brought the subject to my attention.  otherwise, the only thoughts i had when i heard him talk about it was the same thoughts i had throughout his whole campaign--he is an idiot and boy is this country in trouble!  i was right!
  • JackieM
    what about obama and his nut jobs in his audience screaming about McCain?  i remember there was screaming about him too!  so what?  who cares?  i only wish that obama had respected McCain just as McCain respected him but it didnt happen.  the term would not necessarily mean racism.  it could but then again we dont know for sure, do we?  are you saying that a minority like Palin was intentionally letting this happen?  yeah right!  do you know how many democrats i know that are racists, David?  it is across party lines and within every community unfortunately.  im sure the democrats have it in the whitehouse too because it is everywhere!  is there a conspiracy?  who cares because the voters from both parties are smarter than that.  im female and dont go around screaming at the democrats and republicans that women are being cheated out of the presidency or anything else.  give me a break!  obama is a fool and all of my posts reveal this!
  • Michael
    More and more David convinces me that Liberalism is a Mental Disorder theory is spot on.  Take this post of Davids for example.

    "<<The man(.....Jesse Helms) is dead, dont expect anything anytime soon.>>-(261).....and so is Lee Atwater, but what of his minions  (Karl Rove, and Warren Tompkins)?  uh, did you just forget? "
    This in response to a Current Racist Democrat Senator who is in office and alive today to compare him, an elected, racist, official to two political advisers.  Byrd makes Laws!, Rove and Tompkins make suggestions! or did you just forget?

    -Is overt&covert racism an integral part of the democrat party?  You can cite utterances that lack class, but can you find instances of a POLICYracist? Youd have to look back a number of years.
    How about Gary Trudeau making racist comments about Condoleezza Rice as he called her "Brown Sugar"  while praising KKK Robert Byrd by Democratic Sen. Christopher J. Dodd, plus the "a bunch of white men," and, "you all look alike to me"comment by Democratic Representative Corrine Brown. 

    And since you are so caught up in racism, as I hear that is the pass time of many southern, rural, middle aged white men such as David, what do you think of making policy to "benefit" one group over another including housing, employment, education, etc that assumes a inherent inferiority of one group vs another?  

    Conservatism allows for any man or woman of any race, color or creed to succeed or fail based on their own abilities and talents.  It is a belief that all people are created equal and if given a chance to succeed-will succeed beyond the expectations of any governing class.  Conservatism does not make the assumption of inherent inferiority in any class of people, race, gender, religion or otherwise to base their policy initiatives to "target" for ENTITLEMENTS.  That is racism, that is sexism, and that is elitism of those who thank they are superior to those who they by policy initiatives, suggest are inferior.
  • davidwwalters72
    JackieM(270)....
    <<
    obama was definitely a racist when he discussed the differences in his skin and didnt stick to policies.
    >>
    -I
    f
    you say so!
    <<what about obama and his nut jobs in his audience screaming about McCain?
    >>-JackieM(271)
    -How
    many of them advocated McCains assassination?
    <<i only wish that obama had respected McCain just as McCain respected him but it didnt happen.>>
    -No, he just allowed S. Palin to do his dirty work for him.
    <<a minority like Palin>>?
    -Palin  is a minority?
    <<do you know how many democrats i know that are racists, David?>>
    -Im sure you do know some.  However, racism is NOT a part of the democrat party strategy as it is with the republican party.

    Michael(272)....
    "Stimulus Anything But:  The Long-Term Consequences"
    Post#(160)

    <<Byrd makes Laws!, Rove and Tompkins make suggestions! or did you just forget?>>
    -N
    ot t
    o mention the Karl Rove had  way more power than Senator Byrd, when he had George W. Bushs ear...... but the ability to use racist innuendo to win elections trumps the power of a Senator from W.Va. that sits in a wheelchair.  Other than the earmarks Byrd sends home, what is his national power?  Not much.

    <<And since you are so caught up in racism, as I hear that is the pass time of many southern, rural, middle aged white men such as David, what do you think of making policy to "benefit" one group over another including housing, employment, education, etc that assumes a inherent inferiority of one group vs another? >>
    -Are you referring to affirmative action?

    <<
    It is a belief that all people are created equal and if given a chance to succeed-will succeed beyond the expectations of any governing class.  Conservatism does not make the assumption of inherent inferiority in any class of people, race, gender, religion or otherwise to base their policy initiatives to "target" for ENTITLEMENTS.  That is racism, that is sexism, and that is elitism of those who thank they are superior to those who they by policy initiatives, suggest are inferior.>>
    -The ideal: "Conservatism does not make the assumption of inherent inferiority in any class of people, race, gender, religion or otherwise....."
    ..........though noble sounding in fact does not take into account the inequalities some face.   The need to redress disadvantages due to overt, covert,or institutional discrimination is real.  Merely having access to broadband internet gives the affluent child an advantage over his/her peers unable to afford such a luxury.  If you live in an inner city and had no car it severely limits your job opportunities.  Sure there are exceptions, but as a whole, the need for a level playing field should not scare you so much Michael.
  • Michael
    <<Byrd makes Laws!, Rove and Tompkins make suggestions! or did you just forget?>>
    -N
    ot t
    o mention the Karl Rove had  way more power than Senator Byrd, when he had George W. Bushs ear...... but the ability to use racist innuendo to win elections trumps the power of a Senator from W.Va. that sits in a wheelchair.  Other than the earmarks Byrd sends home, what is his national power?  Not much.

    If that is the argument you want to use for having an ELECTED by Democrats, Democrat SENATOR, FORMER KKK MEMBER, in office, then that certainly explains the dismissal of racism in the DEMOCRAT PARTY.  I guess it is Ok then to people like yourself, white middle aged,  rural South Carolinian but to the rest of the country, it is a disgrace to have a racist in our SENATE.  I dont excuse it away but obviously between a racist like yourself and racist like Byrd, whats a "white nigger" comment or two huh?

    The need to redress disadvantages due to overt, covert,or institutional discrimination is real. 
    The covert racism is to assign "disadvantaged" to any one race of people.  This is the policy of the left that is inherently racist in that it assumes an inferiority based solely on skin color.

    I live in the inner city, I live in a predominantly black neighborhood that has been blighted since the 1960s because of the creation of a de facto prison for the nations poor and by extension black population.  The failed policies of the liberals to isolate and segregate through the use of project based housing is part of that then covert, yet now obviously overt, racism that your Democrat Party is soely responsible for. 

    Yours is the party of victims.  Democrats define you as your race, sex or religion and put in place policies to "protect" you because you are UNABLE to protect for yourself.  They tell you that the world is against you, whether it is in business or simply getting a fair shake in life so they, the elite, can step in and coddle you, much like a child who is incapable of self help. 

    That is racism, that is sexism, that is bigotry and it has destroyed a generation of people who now are made dependent on an oligarchy that will see that they are fed through food stamps, housed through HUD, educated by the failed public school system, employed by affirmitive action, just so long as you vote Democrat!

    Conservatism is the level playing field.  Conservatism doesnt see you as a victim based on your physical attributes.  Liberalism is the true oppressors in this world and you can look to any inner city USA to see it for yourself.
  • JackieM
    David--i dont know how many because i wasnt at every liberal rally.  i guess there could have been some but again, just because the media doesnt report it....    blah, blah, blah.  ...and you are stretching the truth when you say Palin was doing McCains dirty work because you have no proof.  why do you like to make stories up without any substance to back it up?  there is nothing to prove this!  However, if i look at Chicago politics and understand that obama was taught his "game" through this corrupt system, i have a correlation of his past and how his present behavior is sculpted.  now that is something i can believe in! 

    It is a belief that all people are created equal   -- if democrats truly believed all people are created equal, they would not believe in the natural selection process called abortion.  abortion in itself ensures everyone is not created equal and people get to pick and choose who survives.  so i dont buy this.  so your points from here on are futile!

    Michaels comment -- The failed policies of the liberals to isolate and segregate through the use of project based housing is part of that then covert, yet now obviously overt, racism that your Democrat Party is solely responsible for.

    Michael is correct in his last post and there are people in the AA community who agree with this and someone posted this point on this site a while ago.  i have close friends who say the same thing.  ya see there are folks out there that are seeing things clearly.
  • davidwwalters72
    Michael(274).....
    -Id
    be
    eager to change the subject too from where it was in (234).....you were getting your ass kicked on the idea that Deregulation had nothing to do with the Credit Default Swaps
    <<Conservatism is the level playing field.>>
    Conservatism is a level playing field as long as you can pay to play.  Liberalism is to level the playing field.
  • davidwwalters72
    <<Michaels comment -- The failed policies of the liberals to isolate and segregate through the use of project based housing is part of that then covert, yet now obviously overt, racism that your Democrat Party is solely responsible for.>>
    -If we look into the history of housing projects in America....
    "Most housing communities were developed from the 1930s onward and initial public housing was largely slum regeneration,......"
    -So
    public housing was built in areas already segregated....

    "Public housing was only built with the blessing of the local government, and projects were almost never built on suburban greenfields , but through regeneration of older neighborhoods."-And
    it appears from this, that local governments had a hand in this segregation......not the democratic party....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing#Uni...

    If you understand anything about American history, youd know that as blacks migrated to northern cities, they were segregated into slums, which became the sites of housing projects.....segregated by LOCAL governments.
    Michael spews more shit than a broken sewerage main.
  • davidwwalters72
    Author: SeanS
    Comment:
    It is funny, I know the term "useful idiots" and what it means.  It is entertaining to watch Micheal R dance around you and you dont even realize it.  You arent even intelegent enough David to know what he is saying about you to respond.  LMAO daily, keep it up URBANCONSERVATIVE.

    SeanS...
    -C
    o
    ming from a guy who spells "intelegent" and then has the gall to gush about watch(ing) Micheal R dance around (me)and (i) dont even realize it.
    -Well, i have to say i am grateful for your LACK of support. Michael can have you for a cheerleader.  Yknow, birds of a feather....?
    -"Useful idiots"? Perhaps you can enlighten me as to whom this quote is attributed to, genius?
    Yes, it seems Michael is sorely in need of some  cheer leading  useful idiots.
  • Michael
    -If we look into the history of housing projects in America....
    "Most housing communities were developed from the 1930s onward and initial public housing was largely slum regeneration,......"
    Not true! Project based/section 8 housing was instituted by HUD in 1974 as part of a continued efforts designed to control urban unrest after 1968.  There is a difference between Project based housing and community developments.
    -And it appears from this, that local governments had a hand in this segregation......not the democratic party....
    HUD is a federal agency and section 8 was a federal program/allocated at a local level designed by liberal initiatives.  Cabrini Green in Chicago to Laural Homes in Cincinnati, the two largest project based section 8 housing in the country, they were de facto prisons that were designed to quell civil unrest and to continue a practice vs a policy of segregation.

    -"Useful idiots"? Perhaps you can enlighten me as to whom this quote is attributed to, genius?

    The term Useful idiots or Useful fools was attributed to Lenin (and the communist party as a whole) to talk about Americans who unknowingly were pushing the views of both socialism and communism in the country in order to break our system.  They were useful fools in that they did not realize that they were promoting the very thing that would destroy them. 
    "We cant expect the American people to jump from Capitalism to Communism. But we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until one day they wake up to find they have Communism." Kruschev
    I say that you are a useful fool to me in that you give me reason to keep coming back to this site everyday even though that is not your intention.  You are useful David, and you are a fool or idiot, which ever you prefer.
  • davidwwalters72
    <<Cabrini Green in Chicago to Laural Homes in Cincinnati, the two largest project based section 8 housing in the country, they were de facto prisons that were designed to quell civil unrest and to continue a practice vs a policy of segregation.>>-Michael(280)

    "Laurel Homes was the second largest Public Works Administration public housing project in the country. It illustrated the housing ideas prevalent in planning circles in the 1930s and represented a milestone in Cincinnati’s local humanitarian efforts to improve the living conditions for the poor."
    http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cdap/pages/-6748-/
    Laurel Homes is now designated as a registered historic district......but more to the point of my post in (278).....
    -Who or what entity was responsible for the location of the site of laurel Homes?
    The segregation you speak of seems to be hinged on WHO picked the site location, huh?

    "In political jargon, the term "useful idiot" was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries and the alleged attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and being cynically used."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
    -Uh, how again im a Soviet sympathizer?  I would think naïve would be an apt description of those who would follow republican demagoguery.
  • davidwwalters72
    SeanS is unable to speak for himself?  Sounds as if he is the "Useful Idiot".
  • Michael
    "Laurel Homes was the second largest Public Works Administration public housing project in the country. It illustrated the housing ideas prevalent in planning circles in the 1930s and represented a milestone in Cincinnati’s local humanitarian efforts to improve the living conditions for the poor."

    Thats funny?  I live about 3 minutes from the Laurel Home site that was torn down and is now City West, a mixed income community consisting of over 1000 new homes.  It was torn down after a 2000 rule change that saw a nationwide move from project based section 8 to vouchers due to the failure and strain that project based system was placing on the inner city.   Cabrini Green is gone as well.  You need to update your information there David (and so does the City of Cincinnatis website) but all kidding aside, it is interesting to look at the transfromational affect that it is having on inner cities with the move to vouchers relative to projects, everyone wins.  People are no longer locked into slums and have the ability to move themeselves and their families to places with better schools, lower crime and an actual chance at breaking the poverty cycle.  And on the other hand, the crime rate in the communities like OTR and the West End are dropping at an exponential rate allowing for redevelopment of the largest collection of Italianate architechture in the country.

    As for the "useful idiot"
    "they were actually held in contempt by them, and being cynically used."
    Yeah, that sounds about right.  And my point still stands, although you believe you are here to disuade conservatism on this site, you actually strenthen it by giving the stark and often misinformed contrast of liberalim and that does nothing but drive people like myself back here every day.
  • davidwwalters72
    -Again, Michael.....
    "
    Laurel Homes is now designated as a registered historic district......but more to the point of my post in (278).....
    -Who or what entity Was Responsible for the location of the site of laurel Homes?
    The segregation you speak of seems to be hinged on WHO picked the site location, huh?"

    -When a pertinent fact is pointed out, you seem adept at changing the direction of the argument......
    In trying to fling more shit on the wall (....... the insane notion that democrats are racists), which is just another shit flinging exercise to NOT address the issue of covert republican racism such as executed by them in their strategy of the past 40+ years......
    Richard Nixons Southern Strategy, Lee Atwaters overt racist campaigning  to garner blue dog democrat votes in elections are both facts with no parallel in the democrat party.  So you counter with Sen. Byrd of W.Va. or old housing projects as poor examples.....neither of which points to an institutional role of Racism as principle components of party doctrine.
    As a RINO, i have only once been able to hold my nose and vote for a republican over the past 30 years due, primarily to this fact.
  • Michael
    ""Laurel Homes is now designated as a registered historic district......but more to the point of my post in (278).....
    -Who or what entity Was Responsible for the location of the site of laurel Homes?"

    Actually the city made a mistake when putting that on their site and alluded that Laurel was a historic site, but rather it is both the West End and Over the Rhine itself that are the Historic Districts.  If it had actually been a historic site, it would never have been bulldozed.

    Laural was initially built as community housing in a overwhelmingly German community that saw an influx of more and more immigrants to work in the adjacent area of OTR to service what was then the largest collection of breweries in the country.  Laural changed to a project based section 8 in the early 70s along with countless surrounding buildings and were locked in for 40 year contracts all of which are expiring now and hence the urban renewal that you are seeing in not just Cincinnati, but every major city USA.

    W
    hen a pertinent fact is pointed out, you seem adept at changing the direction of the argument......
    The problem is you do not have all of the facts and draw an inference based on your perception which are generally politically motivated.  Sometimes I have to change the direction of the argument to clear up your misconceptions like the one above.  I have been to the site, I have spoken to the people, I know the history of the community and its people-do you?

    Sen. Byrd of W.Va. or old housing projects as poor examples.....neither of which points to an institutional role of
    Racism as principle components of party doctrine.
    Project Based Section 8 policy was the definition of institutional racism.  It became a part of the framework of the US government to isolate and segregate people of lesser means and different skin color from the rest of the population.  Even HUD recognized this and changed the policy in 2000 as project based was an absolute failure.  That was your Democrat party, there is no way around it David.

    On a personal note.  I work with Developers who are currently rehabbing and reconstructing new housing and commercial spaces on these sites and deal both with the city, state-all of which are funded by the federal government on tax credit funding which is in place to correct the decimation they caused on the inner city.  It is a massive effort to undue this destruction and when you speak to the former residents of these sites, they are the happiest to see them go as they now have a chance for themeselves and their children. 

    As a DINO, i have never once been able to hold my nose and vote for a Democrat over the past 30 years due, primarily to this fact.
  • davidwwalters72
    <<The problem is you do not have all of the facts and draw an inference based on your perception which are generally politically motivated>>-Michael.......

    -N
    ow,
    which facts am i missing? It seems clear to me and a few others, including former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, that Deregulation of Banking, Investments, and Insurance IS the root cause of our economic meltdown.  Its not a political perception Michael.
    "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself included, are in a state of shocked disbelief,” ( Alan Greenspan) told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. 
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/econ...
    To many, including former president Clinton thought as Alan Greenspan did that we placed  "too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending."
    I
    explained the source of the wanton lending.....
    So
    its time to really approach the problem differently, dont ythink?

    <<
    On a personal note.  I work with Developers who are currently rehabbing and reconstructing new housing and commercial spaces on these sites and deal both with the city, state-all of which are funded by the federal government on tax credit funding which is in place to correct the decimation they caused on the inner city.  It is a massive effort to undue this destruction and when you speak to the former residents of these sites, they are the happiest to see them go as they now have a chance for themeselves and their children.>>
    -S
    ure,
    i am sure they do want them gone.  But that isnt the point.  In (275) i countered your false statement......
    <<I live in the inner city, I live in a predominantly black neighborhood that has been blighted since the 1960s because of the creation of a de facto prison for the nations poor and by extension black population.  The failed policies of the liberals to isolate and segregate through the use of project based housing is part of that then covert, yet now obviously overt, racism that your Democrat Party is soely responsible for. >>
    -By pointing out that federally funded project based housing were sited by local governments, which is in fact the source of the segregation you speak of.  "Hey man, nice shot....."

  • davidwwalters72
    <<The problem is you do not have all of the facts and draw an inference based on your perception which are generally politically motivated>>-Michael.......

    -N
    ow,
    which facts am i missing? It seems clear to me and a few others, including former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, that Deregulation of Banking, Investments, and Insurance IS the root cause of our economic meltdown.  Its not a political perception Michael.
    "Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself included, are in a state of shocked disbelief,” ( Alan Greenspan) told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. 
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/econ...
    To many, including former president Clinton thought as Alan Greenspan did that we placed  "too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending."
    I
    explained the source of the wanton lending.....
    So
    its time to really approach the problem differently, dont ythink?

    <<
    On a personal note.  I work with Developers who are currently rehabbing and reconstructing new housing and commercial spaces on these sites and deal both with the city, state-all of which are funded by the federal government on tax credit funding which is in place to correct the decimation they caused on the inner city.  It is a massive effort to undue this destruction and when you speak to the former residents of these sites, they are the happiest to see them go as they now have a chance for themeselves and their children.>>

    -S
    ure,
    i am sure those former residents do want them gone.  But that isnt the point.  More obfuscation.    In (275) i countered your false inference......
    <<I live in the inner city, I live in a predominantly black neighborhood that has been blighted since the 1960s because of the creation of a de facto prison for the nations poor and by extension black population.  The failed policies of the liberals to isolate and segregate through the use of project based housing is part of that then covert, yet now obviously overt, racism that your Democrat Party is soely responsible for. >>
    -By pointing out that federally funded project based housing were sited by local governments, which is in fact the source of the segregation you speak of.  "Hey man, nice shot....."
  • Michael
    "-Now, which facts am i missing? It seems clear to me and a few others, including former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, that Deregulation of Banking, Investments, and Insurance IS the root cause of our economic meltdown."
    First, it was Greenspan who pointed out rational vs irrational actions taken by the individual which led to a bubble (now where have you heard that before?).  Greenspan also was the one who relaxed bank reserve levels coupled with the low interest rates allowed for an additional explosion of credit between 04 and 08. 

    "[T]he appropriate policy response is not to bridle financial    intermediation with heavy regulation. ... The solutions for the financial-market failures revealed by the crisis are higher capital requirements and a wider prosecution of fraud -- not increased micromanagement by government entities." Greenspan

    If you want to discuss Greenspan some more and his defense to Congress I would be happy to do so as he has some real time line issues.
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    -By
    pointing out that federally funded project based housing were sited by local governments, which is in fact the source of the segregation you speak of.  "Hey man, nice shot....."
    When public housing (not project based section 8) was first instituted it was not integrated that wasnt until the 50s. In 1968 due to racial unrest in the cities a policy began to form which led to the legislation passed in 74 to tackle issues of crime and poverty through means of isolation and segregation and that was Project Based Section 8.  This was blessed by the local and federal government alike in that is met the goal of both entities in hedging a growing racial problem on the federal level and helped isolate what was deemed to be the criminal element into a small area which allowed for concentrated policing efforts on a local level.  It also made it easier for the concentration of social services in the inner city, as Over the Rhine saw 108 social services pop up in a 110 block area to service the projects. 
    This caused a massive population shift in the inner cities as well as both the West End and Over the Rhine were overwhelmingly German communities.  Those communities began to migrate outward and developed the suburbs while the inner city died.  But this was happening everywhere, not just Cincinnati.  These rules changed in 2000 which allowed for the end of project contracts and the beginning of vouchers which the University of Cincinnati has been tracking the voucher flows to outerlying areas that were previously all white. 
    http://www.uc.edu/News/NR.aspx?ID=2622

    This is not a forced integration, but rather allowing for natural population flows that the government intervened in by the project based policy.  It was motivated by a misguided philosophy of containment.  Today we have a hard time keeping low income buildings full in OTR and the West End because of the introduction of competition through vouchers that do not force people to live in the same "slum" buildings that have been neglected for 40 years.  Now they have the choice to go to better schools, live in better neighborhoods and let their children grow up in a culture that is not based in crime and poverty. 

    So after all of that, my statement still stands...
    I live in the inner city, I live in a predominantly black neighborhood that has been blighted since the 1960s because of the creation of a de facto prison for the nations poor and by extension black population.  The failed policies of the liberals to isolate and segregate through the use of project based housing is part of that then covert, yet now obviously overt, racism that your Democrat Party is soely responsible for.

    Once again your argument David is one of lack of understanding and defense of a policy that is undefendable, even by those who enacted it.  If you want to keep looking for some blog somewhere that talks about how great the project based system was, I am sure you can find it but the real evidence is in the perfomance of the cities today and the reciepients standard of living under the new voucher system.  Stick with what you know David, I would never question you on the proper form or methodology of digging ditches.
  • davidwwalters72
    <<Stick with what you know David, I would never question you on the proper form or methodology of digging ditches.>>-Michael
    -So in the arrogant world of well heeled republicans, manual labor is something to be scoffed at?  You truly need to get a real job, sweat a little asshole, its good for ya! I spose youd like it if no one asked questions.

    "The solutions for the financial-market failures revealed by the crisis are higher capital requirements and a wider prosecution of fraud -- not increased micromanagement by government entities." Greenspan

    -Uh, im an idiot, but explain how "higher capital requirements" were eschewed in the first place?  How was AIG able to underwrite bets made on Wall Street Without enough assets to cover them?  Was it those damned SEC guys that made em do it?
    -So, are we to believe ONLY the experts like you have anything to add to such a complex subject.
    ......"dont ask questions", "everything will be alright"......Yeah, right!
  • Michael
    "manual labor is something to be scoffed at?"
    I simply said that I would never question your expertise let alone scoff at it.

    I spose youd like it if no one asked questions.

    If I didnt, I wouldnt bother with the lengthy answers.

    -Uh, im an idiot, but explain how "higher capital requirements" were eschewed in the first place?
    The Fed is the ones who set the bank reserve requirements.   I think it was the damned Fed guy that made them set the reserve requirement.

    -S
    o, are we to believe ONLY the experts like you have anything to add to such a complex subject.
    I would say that one should only believe those who are educated enough to talk about the subject outside of political ideology.  That is your only driving force is to believe what a specific political party is telling you to believe as you do not know any better and must rely on the party that you trust vs your own information.  This is why ignorance is the worlds most expensive commodity as you choose to ignore fact as it is presented to you and back political figures who play towards your emotion vs your logic and understanding of a matter.
  • davidwwalters72
    <<-Uh, im an idiot, but explain how "higher capital requirements" were eschewed in the first place?
    The Fed is the ones who set the bank reserve requirements.   I think it was the damned Fed guy that made them set the reserve requirement.>> -Michael(290)

    -S
    o thanx
    for helping me with the point over in:(178)
    "Stimulus Anything But:...."
    -To invest in something with a far greater return than Treasury Bonds, if these financial instruments were supposedly insured (such as AIG did, yet they didnt have the money to cover potential losses)......"
    -Since i was making the point about WHY people with lots of cash wanted  a method of investing that money for greater returns than  Treasury Bonds.

    Too bad i didnt put that shovel down more often....

  • Political Jive
    The conservative movement is going to grow, but the Obamites are stuck on this guy no matter how many terrible moves he makes. Its really unfortunate for the future of our country. He comes into office and signs 5 executive orders in the first 8 days. All the Obamites are saying is, "Give Him Time, Give Him Time, Give Him Time, Give Him Time!!!!!!" How much time do I have to give him? I dont have 100 days, by then we will have no country left! The existing conservatives who arent drinking the coolaid will continue to rise up, we need a revolution. Look what happened in Russia and France, the people rose up and had a revolution. It is the job of the appointed official to take care of the people. The shmucks in Washington are only concerned with their socialist agenda, we are sick of it!
  • Titus Hunt
    Political Jive--I really hope the republicans start fighting back.  i dont understand what is taking the party so long.  you are correct in that we dont need to give that idiot 100 days to ruin this country.  i dont want to give him another day to destroy this nation.
  • Max
    Republicans are really starting to take over the blogosphere.  YouTube is becoming more and more conservative too as the internet generation steps up.  heres a great example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jxgmMj1gto
    gotta love these kids representing the cause
  • Titus Hunt
    Im happy to hear that!  Democrats have spread their lies too long and Republicans have kept quiet too long.
  • bambi eats grass
    oh , I have a joke:

    Republicans.

    hahahahahahahaha

    heres another one,

    Whats invisible and nobody cares?
    Urban Conservative.


    oh yes.
  • Jeremy Lucas
    It starts by having a underground, viral, grassroots movement. Conservatives need to jump all over these areas to get in touch with the people.
  • Dora
    GOP Senator Graham Breaks With Gingrich, Limbaugh: Sotomayor Is Not "Racist"
    Says Of Gingrich, Limbaugh: "Theyve Got An Audience To Entertain"

    their audience is entertained easily- just give them a spoon- its less nasty,  not noisy,  needs no electricity or gas,  readily available,  it has no sharp edges and should keep them busy all day.
  • Please Remove This Comment
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