ML won't do that.  His job is protecting the people, not raping and pillaging them like someone else we know....

ML,  while they are all sitting waiting for this celestial event let's go over and steal their stuff.   A bag of chips,  couple bottles of beer,  and a jar of pickles.  They won't need them.

What a loony tune. 

Titus,  why not join the other space rangers and wait for the rapture.
You've already got the headgear.

"Liberals won't admit to wanting Marxist/Socialism but we know they do"

Wow!  a knuckle-dragging mentalist!
What am I thinking now,  Titus?  HUH?

Liberals won't admit to wanting Marxist/Socialism but we know they do, and that is a lot of the reason obama is in office.  however, as others have pointed out, liberals are mentality ill.  I think they may even be brain dead!

Here is the problem with “left-thinking” Marxist/Socialist ideology:
Americans, like our Founding Fathers rightly give due credit to "exceptional individuals" who by their hard work, ingenuity and creativity, promote the advance of technological discovery, and by that, entrepreneurial freedom and our system of free enterprise.
Leftist ideologues have an inordinate craving to have the government dictate both individual ability and need. America is “exceptional.” Our Founding birth documents state our rights come from God and they are inalienable. That means no human being of mortal flesh and blood can take them away, whether grouped as a “State,” “an NGO,” or a “government.” The Russians tried Marxist/Socialism – it could never work. The world over, this lesson has been learned. Leftist ideologues cannot face logical dissent; for they are “closet dictators” waiting for opportunity to engineer forceful compliance in the guise of “legalism.”
I discovered many flaws with Marxist thinking as I delved into studying the works of Karl Marx himself. The works themselves speak boldly of his real intent rather than the adaptations made by adherents on a rampage to materialize Communism in their own respective countries.
It is well known among economists and political scientists that Karl Marx wrote, regarding a political-economic “call to arms” in reaction to the level of capitalist development already achieved in Germany and England. For example, Vladimir Lenin “jumped the gun,” by “putting the cart before the horse,” in the Soviet Union, the conditions of which, at that time, were grossly inadequate for a “Communist transformation” due to its ubiquitous agrarian economy. There was no surplus production in the Soviet Union to speak of, at that time. Karl Marx wrote in 1848, and Lenin took over the Soviet Union in 1917.
Marx claimed that the rigorous discipline required to maintain the labor force, coupled with tremendous surpluses of mass production that have to be externalized, - given that wages do not allow all employable workers to obtain even the fruits of their own labor and that, even if they could, excess goods would remain stockpiled and unsold, - owners of the means of production who are the major employers are then compelled to periodically release or discharge workers into the streets, until such a time the surplus mass production is disposed of.
This is 2009 and Karl Marx proved wrong in all his assumptions regarding capitalist development, especially in America, where safeguards, protections, precautions and requirements of justice such as the minimum wage, unemployment insurance benefits, social security retirement benefits, pensions, IRA’s, CD’s etc…, are lawfully framed into the principles of the free market so that comprehensive prosperity has continuum with inalienable rights to constructive liberty.
Marx wrote that every economic stage is poignant with contradictions due to the unity of opposites – excessive abundance and artificially created scarcities, for example - and eventually, a "revolution" or “social explosion” occurs and the next stage is attained. In that manner, Karl Marx proceeded from the first stage or "primitive accumulation," to various stages, such as the manorial system, mercantilism, and then, up to Capitalism, from which ensues "Socialism," – during the stage of Socialism, the State or government owns every means of production, and controls distribution of goods and services. (I am briefly summarizing; now remember, every stage is filled with contradictions and must "explode" eventually.) And finally, the stage of “Communism,” is reached whereby “society” owns all things in common.
In that final stage, as if by "Merlinesque magic," "the State withers away," and “society” becomes "the administration of things and the direction of production." Since each stage is assumed to be poignant with contradictions, the State or government CANNOT “wither away.” What kind of things will be administered; what kind of things will be produced? How will they be directed? And then directed to where? Who will administer? Who will direct?
What a fantasy! A godless dreaming conspirator like Karl Marx suddenly vaporizes, dissolves, disintegrates, pulverizes and escapes from every assumption he posited regarding Capitalism and "human nature," - "contradictions," "unity of opposites," “economic stages,” and "revolution," all, go “out of the window.” And Marx had "solutions" to "greed," "injustice," “private property,” and other so-called "irrational passions," coming from the State or government, now posing as the final “owners” of all means of production. He dismissed all forms of spirituality as a “crutch.” He stated that “Religion,” is the “opiate of the masses” and would have to be abolished. And his motto in replacing the free market was: "From each according to his ability (don't forget about the "drones" who must clean the stool, empty the trash, enter the mines, unclog the sewers etc.., who decides?.) and to each according to his need." Really? Who decides?
So the State that "magically" “withers” away now will determine both "ability" and "need" for all persons under the jurisdiction of the State or government.
Human ability would be constrained by State bureaucrats “administering things,” – no one could develop to the fullest development of his or her potentialities. Human need would be determined by the State or government bureaucrats who would “direct production,” – no one could prosper in pursuit of his or her lifelong goals; as already understood, no entrepreneur needs apply, for that implies the revival of private ownership of property. In our representative democracy, we know that hard work and gainful employment can bring great prosperity - Bill Gates and countless millionaires know this self-evident truth.
But from Karl Marx’s standpoint, only government bureaucrats would be allowed to dispense “private property” to laborers in payment for labor; and only State bureaucrats would determine the value or worth of labor, incentives, rewards, amount of owned property or final incomes.
Marxist/Socialism does not make sense except for people who entertain totalitarian fascism as a State-controlled “political system,” denying individual rights and micro-managing private lives.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need,” is the most satanic doctrine ever devised by the mind of Man. Long live Capitalism, the work ethic, the free market, entrepreneurial freedom, and the rule of law based upon the consent of the governed! Let’s keep voting!
Karl Marx was simultaneously naive, cynical and deceitful. He is Darwin's "twin brother," so to speak. Darwin also opposed human spirituality in his godless publications; he advocated a “theory of origin” that contradicts the Holy Bible. Marx and Darwin “paired up” in that, “descendants of apes,” would thus “struggle,” or “make revolution” merely to achieve government or State ownership of all means of production, and then, position themselves as “top bureaucrats,” – no different from the Soviet Union disaster that crippled its capacities for economic and democratic development.
We must reject Marxist/Socialist ideology and the “ape mentality” that degrades humanity in the saying that “the monkey with the most toys wins.” The Holy Bible tells us that God created us “in His own image and unto His own likeness;” and the Declaration of Independence states it’s a self-evident truth that we are created by God who endowed us with our inalienable rights.

For the horrendous sufferings Karl Marx and Charles Darwin have caused on the earth, they deserve eternity in Hell.
Thanks. With God's blessings, LEO

irrelevant.

that is what you are.

We have learned that several million Christians failed to vote in this last election. I have also learned that the end times doomsday theology has a great influence into the mindset of many Christians today. A christian church having nearly a million members is claiming that December 14th will be the beginning of the tribulation period, and the trump will sound. I tried hard to influence a such people to vote this year! Why would they not want to vote? It was a contradiction to their religious convictions when according to them, America has already been judged by God.Why not vote?
What was their hang up? Why vote if Christian’s are caught up in a rapture to heaven, and when the anti Christ will dominate the world anyway according to prophecy? The most frightening thing coming is the popular 2012 date set for the rapture spreading anticipation like wild fire! It may draw many more Christians into a doomsday mentality, potentially hurting the next election much more so.

The conservative balance of power may be determined by such critical voters who may yet determine America's future. We need all christians to stay loyal to America, not the Rapture! What is wrong with this anti-christ beast theory? Look at Waco Texas, and David Koresh, and Jim Jones, and others. What happens when normal human beings are drawn into abnormal behavior by strong religious convictions coming from a doomsday theology! This hidden enemy exists within our conservative center, and it may already be doing far more harm than the liberal media has done to conservative causes.

Revelation 15:2 clearly states that the mark of the beast is something Christians must personally overcome to gain the victory through the blood of the lamb? This description and obvious wording in the Bible seem to identify mans fallen nature, not some computer implant which many wrongly speculate. Did Christ die for our sins, or did he die for computer implants? Is this not a ridiculous theology which millions of Christians have fallen for?.Lets list some rational truth's concerning this subject taken directly from the Bible.

The mark originated with Cain, in the Old Testament. Cain killed his brother Abel and sought to cover his sin by hiding his murderous crime. God asked Cain,where is thy brother? Cain said, I know not, am I my brothers keeper? Cain was marked after becoming the the example of satanic behavior God detests.

God then cursed the works of Cain’s hand’s, the ground he tilled no longer brought forth her strength. In other word’s, a bad economy then followed the mark. Can we not identify this mark as Gods curse upon Cain’s right handed works? Why? Cain had yielded himself to Satan’s power by failing to bring forth good fruits, breaking Gods commandments.

It was Satan who was symbolized in the Bible as being the cursed beast (the Serpent) in the Garden of Eden. A type of snake bite, a beastly mark identifying the sin nature which Satan injected into mans heart, was being depicted as the mark of sin.

Later we learn in the New Testament that people who follow Cain like nature are also called beasts. “Jude 1.

The Bible gives us an even clearer example of this mark, when Joseph’s brothers sought to kill Joseph and sell him as a slave into Egypt. The brothers hid this sin from Jacob, their father. How? By killing a wild beast and placing an animal’s blood upon Joseph’s coat of many colors. How? By using an actual beasts bloodstain as if it belong to Joseph.. The brothers then lied to Jacob, by showing Jacob Joseph’s coat with a marked bloodstain. They told Jacob that Joseph was killed by a wild beast. This false evidence convinced Jacob that his only birthright son was dead. This was the secret plan Jacob did not know. It was a mark upon Joseph’s coat which was actually "the mark of the beast” and not coming from Josephs torn body .

The mark of the beast becomes a deception which hides and removes Gods will by replacing it with Satan’s deception and plan. It was Gods will that Joseph become the birthright son. Suddenly, Joseph is removed from sight by the hidden cover up, The mark of a wild beast literally hid the lie, and removed true authority.

The brothers had sold Joseph to the Egyptians for money. Thus, buying and selling the beastly mark through deception for worldly gain. The interpretation of an anti Christ is to remove Christ’s will, and then replace it with the mark of the beast, or Satan’s power. God was being sold out through the lie, coming from a secret combination.

When Nebuchadnezzar forced the world to worship his golden God in Babylon, he used the power of the state to replace Gods true authority by using a calculated and manufactured lie.


King Nebuchadnezzar also used Gold (money) to build his God, selling out the value of worshiping the true God. Again, replacing Christ’s will with Satan’s deceptive mark. Babylon today represents any government or spiritual system which rewards selfishness by removing the true God.


After Nebuchadnezzar imposed his sin of pride using his political authority, God cursed Nebuchadnezzar by transforming him into the nature of a wild beast. (Read Daniel chapter four.) Nebuchadnezzar was marked like unto Cain, removed from men, acting inhuman like a wild beast.

In other word’s, Babylon is a state of mind which destroys our humanity!

Nebuchadnezzar finally repented after going through a terrible withdrawal process for 7 years, removing him from his evil addiction for power. The 666 number in scripture clearly identifies Nebuchadnezzar’s golden statue by its dimensions and exact size. The statue was gold, which represents Nebuchadnezzar himself who became the image of the golden statue, as recorded by Daniel. “Daniel 2.” King Nebuchadnezzar was literally the 600 BC man.

The entire ancient world represented his power given to one single man marking 600 B. C. in history.

His giant golden image was carefully measured and recorded by Daniel as being 60 cubits high and 6 cubits wide. “Daniel 3:1″. This biblical event marked the Babylonian attempt to replace God with a six hundred and three score, and six man. The 600 BC man was Nebuchadnezzar himself, being enlarged into a huge statue almost a hundred feet tall. Babylon is about a little man trying to become a great big man using earthly political means.


The world did not have the modern media in Nebuchadnezzar’s day to make him self larger than life. This huge golden image represents a man seeking to reach notoriety and Godly status by becoming larger, more visible to the world. This explains why John would instructs believers to count the number of the beast, to find the hidden man.

Is the true measure of a man not measured by his inflated image to be seen by men, revealing his beastly pride? Or, is that not the measure of the beastly side which hides his true image!
The true measure of the man is being obscured from view Nebuchadnezzar’s false image was 666. “Daniel: 3-1″.

The true man was hidden from our view by sin until he became humble. “Daniel 4" "Revelation 13:18." In other words, you can find the answer to the world’s greatest Bible mystery 666, directly recorded inside your very own family Bible. The search is now over...
God actually frees the beast of Babylon from his evil mark after Nebuchadnezzar repents. Evil men today are seeking to remove our God given freedoms by replacing “one nation under God” with state supported socialism. why? In order to make slaves of free Americans. It is not the same spirit of Babylon returning to us again today. Fallen man is still seeking to make his worldly image large in order to remove God, replacing God with a god of gold, purchased with our own money by state decree. The new god becomes mans exalted authority being granted through the state and not God.. Remember Moses and the golden calf image represented a beast God in Moses day! The golden beast was created by collecting the people’s own wealth.


Once again, they are setting up another God of gold using our money to pay for it. Why? Is it not to going to force Americans to worship this golden God of the state? Or become fired, exiled, or destroyed through the power of political correctness? No man or women will be able to buy nor sell, or hold a job, unless they contribute to this god of Babylon being forced through higher taxation, personal loyalty and sacrifice. We now witness a state, growing within a state, within our nation.

Look at the bailouts and the national debt being the taken from us to create Babylon’s God. No one is calling for legal hearings to place Kriss Dodd and Barney Frank in prison after they created this world economic crisis. Instead, They with their friends have been placed in charge of this bail out money and our economy…Every man, every women, and every child born today, including the unborn, must pay for an out of control national debt bringing America into a modern Babylonian bondage. Untold billions of our money must transfer directly into these social democrats hands transforming America into a predatory beast. The secret plan must hide their goal to change America into a new nation under their god. This god of money now becomes the new savior of America through a government bail out as our salvation. This is the true anti Christ that no one yet is looking for already happening directly in front of us..
It is another god of gold, like unto the 666 god in 600 BC! This god is now being constructed for the salvation of Americans who are being forced to worship its image, and make huge sacrifices unto it.

"All small and great, rich and poor," must sacrifice for the god of this new change… Remember Obama, declaring that all Americans must sacrifice for his image for change? The change is a lie, it is a beast which seeks to make us into its slave.! We are now changing America into the modern beast of Babylon, being robbed of our own right hand works, our own money as its sacrifice. This has been made possible through calculated lies planted within our own foreheads or our deceived minds.

What kind of evil beast has entered into over half of America’s foreheads, or intellects, causing them to vote for the institution of their own slavery? Millions of votes were cast against a free America? It was surely an evil beast which deceived their minds by calculated lies orchestrated from the politically correct media.

The mark of America's power comes directly from which votes are being marked on ballets, the peoples right handed works represent their spiritual mindset going on inside their thoughts or in their foreheads. A mark represents a goal, or end destination like a map. There are two marks from the Bibles beginning, the tree of life, and the tree of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. God’s true followers were marked with Gods name in their foreheads, and right hands, according to John. Revelation 22:4. Was Jesus ever going to use computer implants to mark his followers? The mark of God, and the mark of Satan clearly represent a spiritual identification being witnessed through the person’s spiritual mindset, and also by our outward behavior manifesting through our right handed works. Who do we serve? Babylon represents Satan’s government of slavery, and Zion represents Christ’s free form of government.


Which of the mindsets are we being marked into, becomes the final question?
We must awaken Christians to this lie about computer implants being spread by Left behind books. Why? These popular books focus Christians on doomsday instead of helping God unite his servants to labor the final harvest. We can now understand why the harvest is great, but the workers are few!There is a spiritual distraction going on about the rapture. There is a good reason Christ never wanted us to know the day, nor the hour of his coming. Look at Waco Texas and David Koresh? Look at our last two elections when 4 to 5 million Christians stayed home. Look at the bad fruits coming from the teachings being spread from the most popular Christian book sold today called "Left behind! " These teachings help Satan by neutralizing Christian’s spiritual resolve! This self inflicted distraction is causing more damage than anything the liberal media has yet accomplished.
I need your help to challenge this doomsday theology before it becomes a bigger monster in 2012. In the next four years this anticipation about the end of the world may destroy our conservative and Christian unity. People blindly follow an out of context interpretation not coming from God nor the Bible.


Please help us get a new biblical understanding to as many Christians as possible. Why? Millions have become deceived by thousands of money grabbing preachers who have downloaded the wrong understanding of the mark of the beast into their foreheads! These deceived Christians are still waiting for a computer chip implant to bring in the rapture. This is happening when the mark of slavery is already coming upon them.

It is always important to provide another alternative view for people in order to challenge something like this, rather than let it just run wild. We need every christian to vote in future elections, and not allow such apocolyptic distractions to dominate their hearts in 2012. Watch the online video from start to finish, and understand the basis behind Babylon’s mark for today.. Click
http://www. eternaltruth. net

I hope the new President has some good economic skills. They were saying that there could be a depression now on the news today!!!
 Larry Clockwant 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4oyTI0YlBU

David:  you really don't understand business do you?  the money that idiot obama will take will keep businesses from expanding and hiring more people.  it will stifle the growth of business.  now i don't know where you live, but unemployment is growing rapidly.  like all businesses my father will have to pass the increased taxes to  his customers.  at one point, working your ass off starts not to pay off, and at that time, businesses will close.  think what you want and say what you want--business is what it is and people need jobs.

DS.....
i'm working on a dial-up connection with a PC!  No i haven't forgot about you.....
<<David,
" I (and every christian that I know) HATE war!!!"
Yeah, reminds me of an army poster:
-"Kill'em ALL and let god sort 'em out!"
-I've heard this expression as well, and I do not agree with it!  Please don't assume that all christians agree with this.>>
-Good answer!
<< Yet they have no problem blowing themselves up or killing innocent people at all!  There's a big difference in the way we see people isn't there?>>
Understanding our foreign policy is to understand the imperfections of our liberty......
"Almost all the defects inherent  in democratic institutions are brought to light in the conduct of foreign affairs"-Alexis de Tocqueville

In understanding military action as the ultimate expression of a nations foreign policy, it is wise to understand the failings of our policies with respect to other nations.  Elected officials are little inclined to effect foreign policies that do any thing other than to reelect themselves....Security is one of the few notions that appeal to popular support. 
We long "used" the Shah of Iran in our cold war policies.....and our support of him is at the heart of our differences with the state of Iran.  Our support of Muhajadeen fighters against the Soviet Union in the 80's is also part of our present dilemma.  Non national entities attack us, hide in a country that is supposed to be allied with us in the war against terror (Pakistan).  It's a smart move on AlQueda's part, and Yes, it makes it difficult for us to reach them.
Yet killing civilians isn't a good answer.....it will only harden more hearts against America and cause more blowback.  A workable policy that uses military action wisely along with talks is our only hope in this sad struggle.
The part about arms merchants was a reference to The Military Industrial Complex......i'll write more later, i'm in the process of moving(....in w/ mt girlfriend), but remember i am concerned about ALL babies.

David,

No response to 172?

Titus (169).......
"he would do better financially and physically to close up shop if obama raises his taxes.  his health issues would not be as bad if he took it easy. "

-Titus, if he isn't able to run his business because of health concerns well fine, but don't blame it on Obama.

" but will not tolerate the government extorting money from him to give to people who don't work for it like he does. " 

-yet he'd be willing to put all his workers out of a job simply because he'd have to pay 5% more in taxes?  THAT sounds more like extortion to me.

I am retired on disability......i'd love to have the opportunity to work like i used to.  But my small contribution to our nation is history.

Well, obama is living up to his promises.  today it was announced he may squash the mortorium on funding abortions overseas.  wow!  i didn't know we had the money for that?  according to what he said he would cut spending.  of course, Biden said all he needed to say even for idiots when he said obama's plan called for doubling foreign aid but they would consider holding back for now due to the economy.  so much for that, huh.  i guess obama's true colors are showing once again!  the way it is looking we will see our country bankrupt before it is over with.  but hey, i guess if people get checks and don't have to pay taxes, nothing else matters!  all of this would have been laughable years ago and i would have said the american people were not this stupid............  it would be funny if obama's agenda would not ruin this country.

http://conversativexpress.blogspot.com/

please help us get started leave comments and suggestions for topics you would like to learn more about or discuss.

David....I think you missed my last reply to you.  (160)


David,
" I (and every christian that I know) HATE war!!!"
Yeah, reminds me of an army poster:
-"Kill'em ALL and let god sort 'em out!"

<>"
"God hates evil so much that war is sometimes necessary."
-Yeah, as long as the purveyors of war know they can count on your backing for their profit margin,there will always be wars and rumors of wars.....  So, is this the same god that sent Katrina to New Orleans to combat evil there?  If so, i wanna have words with it!
<>

The evil that you speak of DS, is the evil of arms merchants finding popular support for foisting an unnecessary style of conflict on America.  Are we really fighting terrorists that attacked America, or are we fighting people who only want to defend their homes against foreign occupiers?  Bin Laden is still on the lam........this strategy that Bush/Cheney & McCain/Palin embraced has had no effect on finding those responsible.....<<We are fighting a war against Islamic Extremism which exists in many countries around the world.  Afghanistan and Iraq just happen to be the center of conflict at this time.  I believe that we will have to fight this war in other countries as well.  I don't want to speculate where that will be, but it isn't hard to imagine where that might be.  Bin Laden isn't that important anymore.  If he is still alive, he isn't doing much.  But it would be good to get him, and I'm sure we will do everything we can to get him.  But that won't stop Islamic Extremism.  This war will continue for a long time, and isn't "just" military in nature.  This is a philosophical war as well.  That is why it is so repugnant that our Democratic leaders have been so outspokenly against what Bush has tried to do.  If he didn't do something after 9/11, it would have just gotten worse.  And to be on the offense keeps us safe at home...no matter what the liberals "want to believe". 
I had typed up a long response to your message below, and lost it when I went to submit it.  grrrrrr.....  I will try to answer you questions below by embedding my <<answers>>. 
DS............
"But there will always be wars, and rumors of wars.
 
I am not naive enough to think that conflict is always unnecessary, but it becomes apparent after a while that the road we are traveling down is the wrong fork.  Do we continue to bang our heads against the wall to the point of a contusion?
<<Again, not sure what you're saying here.  We are winning the war on terror, but it will be a long time before we no longer have to worry about Islamic Extremism.  Unfortunately, moderate Islamists could do more to help us.  But I appreciate a leader like president Bush who isn't afraid to do the right thing even though half of his own people try to destroy him for it.>> 
"I also believe that a lot of the "innocent" civilians are not that innocent.  I believe that most of them are families of the terrorists who support their jihad.  And that makes them terrorists in my book.  If they don't want to be considered the same, then they need to either fight the terrorists, or get away from them entirely!"
-It's their HOME, DS.........you'd fight to protect your home just as they would!  So when we call in an air strike on a village that MAY  or MAYNOT have bona fide supporters of Bin Laden present, you can count on women and children becoming casualties.....that is a fact.
-Are they terrorists too?  Should we place that guilt upon a young soldier?
Is a baby guilty of his father's sins?
-These are some real questions you need to ask yourself, my friend.
<<I understand it is their home.  Yet they protect terrorists?  They allow them to live amongst them?  Do they not understand the consequences of that?  Do they place that much faith in our country to not hurt them when terrorists are the target?  War isn't a game David.  It's not like when we were kids, and there was a "home free" base where we could run to and were safe from being caught.  Unfortunately, a baby of a terrorist is going to incur the wrath that his father incurs.  And it is his father's fault, not our fault!!  Don't you see the difference?  It is interesting to me that you have more regret about them than you do aborted babies.  They have done nothing wrong!  Their mothers have chosen to kill them....not some foreign soldier!  Can't you see the difference?  I have already answered these questions David.....no, God has answered them for me.  Yes, I still have questions.  And I ask God for answers all of the time.  He provides answers for some, and not for others.  Sometimes, it isn't necessary for me to know why He does certain things.  That is where faith comes in David.  I recommend that you do a word study on "faith" in the bible and see what you find.  It isn't a leap in the dark.  It is based on God's truth and faithfulness.  Once you know Him and His character, you will believe Him for a lot of things which you don't understand.
Have you looked for the book I recommended to you?  "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell.  Check it out and get back to me.  I know you will have a different opinion about God than you do now.

Begging your pardon, nice quote but wasn't Reagan funded by the mob, or at least the studio heads of studios which were controlled by the mob?
Isn't  that why President Reagan watched as his Justice Department quashed major federal investigations of the Mafia’s penetration of both MCA and the entire motion picture industry shortly after he came into office?

Wasn't it Jimmy Carter who said in his platform running against Reagan "we have to get off foreign oil, and we must stop spending and using credit like we do", while Reagan said "we are America, we are great, we can spend all we want and do as we please"?


Not to mention $640 Pentagon toilet seats; ketchup as a vegetable; union busting; firing striking air traffic controllers;
Iran-Contra; selling arms to terrorist nations; trading arms for hostages; retreating from terrorists in Beirut; lying to Congress; financing an illegal war in Nicaragua; visiting Bitburg cemetery.

A cozy relationship with Saddam Hussein; shredding documents; Ed Meese; Fawn Hall, Oliver North; James Watt; apartheid apologia; the saving and loan scandal; voodoo economics; record budget deficits; double-digit unemployment; farm bankruptcies; trade deficits; astrologers in the White House; Star Wars; and influence peddling.

Olivia:  businesses use profits to expand their businesses and hire employees.  the more the government takes, the less companies are able to do this.  thus, jobs are not created as we need them to be!  it may not hurt SOME businesses to pay more taxes but it will hurt most of them along with people who don't have jobs as a result of it.  businesses will pass the taxes along in the form of price increases in the goods and services they produce.  Therefore, we will pay higher prices for everything we buy and companies will sell less goods.  so how is obama's plan helping the middleclass?

David W. Walters--
David:  until you walk in another man's shoes, don't judge.  my father is 63 years old and loves his work.  however, he has been through hell and back because of the tax situation now.  at one point, when you see the government taking money for no good reason, some people will say enough is enough, and it is not worth staying in business any longer.  so you are wrong in your accusations.  he would do better financially and physically to close up shop if obama raises his taxes.  his health issues would not be as bad if he took it easy.  so this is the point i'm trying to make.  why would someone who has worked as hard as he has all of his life have a reason to continue to work for less?  what would be the point if he didn't have to?  you are retired and my father can retire too.  however, he wants to work as long as he sees a reason to.  if obama implements his tax plan, there will be business owners who will close down because the stress and efforts are not worth it.  so keep up your thought process and more jobs will be lost due to obama's idiotic plan. 
my father has had his own business for 30+ years and is very good at what he does but will not tolerate the government extorting money from him to give to people who don't work for it like he does.  socialism is not a part of our belief system and never will be.  if you want it to be then i suggest you go to washington and try to get the name of our country changed.  for someone who is retired, why would you complain about someone who works seven days a week and already gives a lot of money to the government, especially when he could retire himself?  as i mentioned before, he has major health problems but chooses to work anyway.  He makes a huge contribution to America everyday!

olivia--
40% of americans do not pay taxes and under obama's plan, he will send them a check (welfare).  so yes, entitlement plans will be there and our welfare system will at least double under obama.  your comment:
Doesn't infrastructure include retraining of people whose industry is actually now gone or changed? Indeed the auto workers, and those in  industry of a similar nature, those who expected to have the same job for life should have  realized a long time ago that was not going to be the case.

infrastructure consists of building roads and bridges, etc.  people who are losing their jobs in the auto industry.  under obama's plan retraining may be included, but it should not because that is another enititlement program whereby people get a free education when it should be up to the individual to guide and direct their careers.  because of the unions and the stupidity of people they usually don't get it.  if you understand the millworkers and their plight, it is the same.  that proves the point i was trying to make earlier.  people need to take individual responsibility for their careers and it is not up to the government to get involved in the choices they make.  the union has had a stronghold in the auto industry for a long time and the employees were well aware.  they depended on someone/something to bail them out everytime.  obama is also offering education to students as long as they do volunteer work.  where will that money come from and what is that called?  entitlements! 

through his rhetoric, he has promised the moon to everyone except those who manage to make a little bit of money and he has changed his tax limits from $250K to $200 and then Biden said $150 and Richardson said $120K.  so you think people who make that amount of money can pay more in taxes?  what about folks who live in NY city or San Francisco?  it would take 3 times the amount of my current salary right now to live in San Francisco to live the same as i do now (frugally).  if i had children at home, i would not be able to make it.  obama does not take into consideration any of those factors and does not care.  obama offered everything but the kitchen sink to get votes so i expect him to follow through with the promises.  of course, if he does his policies will destroy our country.  if he does not, he lied to the american people as many before him have but it doesn't make it right.  it makes him corrupt.  of course, there is a list of other reasons that make him corrupt even before he was elected.     

but hey, he has already backed away from his plan since his election so it is evident he won't be able to fulfill his promises.  now i would give me the benefit of the doubt if it was in six months but the day after the election?  also, he hired a thug to be his chief of staff.  by the the way, he was on the the board of Freddie Mac and is know for not being bi-partisan.  so this is reaching across the isle and working together?  i don't think so.   

there is more than the excessive executive pay and the big government that caused the problems we have today and it started in 1995.  huge bonuses for executives will not go away.  if government tries to put huge restraints on executives they will go overseas.    
you are also missing a whole sector of businesses who file under S-Corp status.  that is entirely different than regular corporations and it will kill those businesses.  so while you think you understand everything, it is obviously you only know part of the story.

Wasn't it Jimmy Carter who said in his platform running against Reagan "we have to get off foreign oil, and we must stop spending and using credit like we do", while Reagan said "we are America, we are great, we can spend all we want and do as we please"?


Begging your pardon, nice quote, but wasn't Reagan funded by the mob, or at least the  heads of studios which were controlled by the mob?
Isn't  that why President Reagan watched as his Justice Department quashed major federal investigations of the Mafia’s penetration of both MCA and the entire motion picture industry shortly after he cane into office?


Not to mention $640 Pentagon toilet seats; ketchup as a vegetable; union busting; firing striking air traffic controllers;
Iran-Contra; selling arms to terrorist nations; trading arms for hostages; retreating from terrorists in Beirut; lying to Congress; financing an illegal war in Nicaragua; visiting Bitburg cemetery;
A cozy relationship with Saddam Hussein; shredding documents; Ed Meese; Fawn Hall, Oliver North; James Watt; apartheid apologia; the saving and loan scandal; voodoo economics; record budget deficits; double-digit unemployment; farm bankruptcies; trade deficits; astrologers in the White House; Star Wars; and influence peddling.

"The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world
will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas -- a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish,
and the ideals to which we are dedicated."


--- Ronald Reagan

Titus.........i understand business quite well, thankyou.  Part of my job in highway construction dealt with cost estimation of  projects and dealing with contractors and their constant "poor mouthin'.....so i'm no novice to what it takes to operate a business.
So your dad may be a nice guy.....maybe he's just blowin' smoke, who knows.......yet when he pitch's a fit because his tax bill goes up and threatens his employees with a pink slip, i just see that as a form of extortion.  The term "dick" wouldn't be appropriate to describe me since i treated those underneith me with respect.....however i was a major pain in the ass to all those contractors out there tryin' to cheat on a contract at taxpayer expense.  One like to refer to me as an "asshole", which considering the source, i was quite proud of!

titus: I have seen nowhere that Obama plans to give to entitle people to anything. He has always said nothing is free.

Doesn't infrastructure include retraining of people whose industry is actually now gone or changed? Indeed the auto workers, and those in  industry of a similar nature, those who expected to have the same job for life should have  realized a long time ago that was not going to be the case.

I don't only read, I have a large family, the more conservative branch all bankers or economist, the more liberal  architect/engineers,  artist/business owners or physicians.
I really believe they are educated on the subject, my fathers incorporated business employ almost a hundred people worldwide at any given time, he does employ people from the US, but he is under no obligation to do so to take advantage of the corporate incentives and subsidies allowed under the law at this time. He suffers not at all his income tax is almost nil. Should  he have to pay some I don't think it will kill him and neither does he evidently as he voted for Obama.


As far as the  refundable tax credits. Obama proposes to grant a number of refundable tax credits to low- and middle-income workers. For example,  The "welfare" term is a matter of interpretation.
McCain  proposed refundable tax credits of up to $2,500 a year for individuals, or $5,000 for families, as part of his health care plan.  He does call it tax "reform," right there on his own Web site: McCain made his tax credit refundable to make it worth just as much to low-income workers as to high-income workers. If it were not refundable, it would be worth $0 to anyone who makes too little to pay any federal income taxes and he did not do that.

We must now compare I suppose all the promises by various presidents which were not followed through on once that individual got into office.

I can't find anyone who  trusts any politician completely, never mind blindly, and the case will be the same for me and those I know with Obama.


My ideal candidate would not have been a typical bourgeoisie politician, which is what Obama is, but don't ever get the idea a lot of thinking and advice from those which more experience in life did not go into my decision or the decision of others who voted the way they did - for the Democrat this time around.

We have huge government now, with the incentives going into coorporate coffers, and these corporations have screwed America - and I'm not taking about the way the telecoms  have us by the gonads either.

Ideologically we are not on the same wavelength.

Thank you for the polite discussion though.

Olivia- one more point that you won't see covered by doing research is as follows.  giving money to people who don't work for it or to folks who choose not to better themselves via education/skills, etc., does not encourage people to get out of the rut they are in.  it is through sacrifice and hard work and pushing ourselves to do better that we learn to appreciate the fruits of our labor.  taking pride in earning a paycheck and having choices is important.  otherwise, entitlement programs such as obama's plan ("taking from the rich and giving it to the poor" concept) will continue this nation down the wrong path.  with freedom comes choices.  obama's plan will discourage people to open businesses and that is not what we want.  people need to take personal responsibility for their own lives and stop depending on the government to do it for them.  i am better off now than i was ten years ago because of MY choices.  i don't want the government giving me anything because that is charity.  since 40% of americans don't pay taxes anyway they are already getting free services, i.e., protection from terrorists, infracture, etc.) so they have big entitlements that we working folks have to pay for.  republicans want everyone to pay their fair share of taxes, small government, low taxes for everyone, and a free market economy so that jobs will be created.  if you work 8 hours a day and i work 15 hours per day, why should i give you part of my pay when you choose not to work as hard as i did?  also, if my taxes are raised and say i am forced to give the government $1,000 more per year.  guess how much actually goes to the other people that obama thinks needs it?  probably about $5 because the rest is thrown down a black hole called government waste.  the government in its entire history has never managed a program well and won't.  the lobbyists and democrats (and some not so republican republicans) will ensure that.  so why should smart folks like obama?  should i trust him only on his promises that i know he can't keep (he doesn't have a record)?  i don't think so.

olivia-- your ideas and obama's are great but do not work in the real world.  the bottom up approach in a global economy will create a very small number of low paying jobs.  even obama's plan to build infracture (which won't be anytime soon) will create mostly low paying jobs.  you can research and research and read all you want and talk to people all you want, but until you are out in the corporate world actually watching the stock markets as economic news is coming in and hearing what the executives are saying, you won't understand the impact obama's plan will have on this nation.  a simple example of the impact of obama's plan will be GM.  this company has been in trouble for a long time.  they are now laying off employees and are taking big losses.  obama's plan would raise their taxes.  what would be the effect of his plan on GM?  that is simple.  so what would the effect on GM of giving the middleclass and poor about $500 or $1,000 in their pockets?  so the bottom up approach is not a good concept to boost this economy with any relative affects.  in addition, the global economy is much more of a problem under obama's plan.  it was interesting to hear obama's first speech the other day.  near the end of his campaign and during this speech, he made sure he hinted around that he may not be able to fulfill his promises.  the economy is and has been on a downward turn, but people don't care as long as someone is willing to hand them money.  obama's ties to the lobbyists wil ensure his promises will not be fulfilled unless he is bold enough take a stand for doing what is right and then the lobbyists will ensure his career will be over.  obama will not take that risk and that is seen by his voting record.

davidwwalters-- that goes to show that you don't understand what middle to small businesses go through trying to pacify the government.  on the contrary david, he is a great guy and that is not nice to judge him on something you don't understand.  it is easy to judge when you are approving of the government taxing more money than is fair and that is where the extortion comes into play.  you can't judge if you aren't working as many hours as he is and dealing with the pressures and risks of owning your own business.  it also depends on the area of business a person is in.  so i would not call anyone the name you did but if i wanted to be vulgar, i guess the term would fit your attitude.  the liberals take from the "rich" and give to the poor (most are poor because of their choices) attitude is hurting the situation and not helping.

David,

I had typed up a long response to your message below, and lost it when I went to submit it.  grrrrrr.....  I will try to answer you questions below by embedding my <<answers>>. 



DS............
" I (and every christian that I know) HATE war!!!"
Yeah, reminds me of an army poster:
-"Kill'em ALL and let god sort 'em out!"

<>

"But there will always be wars, and rumors of wars."
"God hates evil so much that war is sometimes necessary."
-Yeah, as long as the purveyors of war know they can count on your backing for their profit margin,there will always be wars and rumors of wars.....  So, is this the same god that sent Katrina to New Orleans to combat evil there?  If so, i wanna have words with it!
<>

The evil that you speak of DS, is the evil of arms merchants finding popular support for foisting an unnecessary style of conflict on America.  Are we really fighting terrorists that attacked America, or are we fighting people who only want to defend their homes against foreign occupiers?  Bin Laden is still on the lam........this strategy that Bush/Cheney & McCain/Palin embraced has had no effect on finding those responsible.....

<<We are fighting a war against Islamic Extremism which exists in many countries around the world.  Afghanistan and Iraq just happen to be the center of conflict at this time.  I believe that we will have to fight this war in other countries as well.  I don't want to speculate where that will be, but it isn't hard to imagine where that might be.  Bin Laden isn't that important anymore.  If he is still alive, he isn't doing much.  But it would be good to get him, and I'm sure we will do everything we can to get him.  But that won't stop Islamic Extremism.  This war will continue for a long time, and isn't "just" military in nature.  This is a philosophical war as well.  That is why it is so repugnant that our Democratic leaders have been so outspokenly against what Bush has tried to do.  If he didn't do something after 9/11, it would have just gotten worse.  And to be on the offense keeps us safe at home...no matter what the liberals "want to believe". 

I am not naive enough to think that conflict is always unnecessary, but it becomes apparent after a while that the road we are traveling down is the wrong fork.  Do we continue to bang our heads against the wall to the point of a contusion?

<<Again, not sure what you're saying here.  We are winning the war on terror, but it will be a long time before we no longer have to worry about Islamic Extremism.  Unfortunately, moderate Islamists could do more to help us.  But I appreciate a leader like president Bush who isn't afraid to do the right thing even though half of his own people try to destroy him for it.>> 
"I also believe that a lot of the "innocent" civilians are not that innocent.  I believe that most of them are families of the terrorists who support their jihad.  And that makes them terrorists in my book.  If they don't want to be considered the same, then they need to either fight the terrorists, or get away from them entirely!"
-It's their HOME, DS.........you'd fight to protect your home just as they would!  So when we call in an air strike on a village that MAY  or MAYNOT have bona fide supporters of Bin Laden present, you can count on women and children becoming casualties.....that is a fact.
-Are they terrorists too?  Should we place that guilt upon a young soldier?
Is a baby guilty of his father's sins?
-These are some real questions you need to ask yourself, my friend.

<<I understand it is their home.  Yet they protect terrorists?  They allow them to live amongst them?  Do they not understand the consequences of that?  Do they place that much faith in our country to not hurt them when terrorists are the target?  War isn't a game David.  It's not like when we were kids, and there was a "home free" base where we could run to and were safe from being caught.  Unfortunately, a baby of a terrorist is going to incur the wrath that his father incurs.  And it is his father's fault, not our fault!!  Don't you see the difference?  It is interesting to me that you have more regret about them than you do aborted babies.  They have done nothing wrong!  Their mothers have chosen to kill them....not some foreign soldier!  Can't you see the difference?  I have already answered these questions David.....no, God has answered them for me.  Yes, I still have questions.  And I ask God for answers all of the time.  He provides answers for some, and not for others.  Sometimes, it isn't necessary for me to know why He does certain things.  That is where faith comes in David.  I recommend that you do a word study on "faith" in the bible and see what you find.  It isn't a leap in the dark.  It is based on God's truth and faithfulness.  Once you know Him and His character, you will believe Him for a lot of things which you don't understand.

Have you looked for the book I recommended to you?  "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell.  Check it out and get back to me.  I know you will have a different opinion about God than you do now. 

I am very excited about this Obama plan to spread the wealth.  He has stated that the wealthiest Americans are going to be the first folks he taps to give up more of their cash to run our social programs.  It will be interesting to watch Oprah Winfreys reaction when Obama starts looting her accounts to pay for programs that create MORE government dependacy.  I kind of doubt Obama will remain her, Farakhan, and other wealthy entertainers 'savior' when they have to start ponying up the cash into programs that operate wastefully and without accountability.  This is going to be a very long four years, but hey, I think there will be defections from the Hollywood 'elite' when they figure out their vote for Obama was akin to being date raped.  History is full of irony....

BHO and his coalition, want to “spread the wealth”
I think a nice gesture to ring in the “21st Century” would be giving the tax payers the 700 billion dollars to get out of debt, and start their own business’s.
This would enable us to feel vindicated with the “huge” tax burden that is going to be hanging around our necks for the next 20-30 years.
While they’re at it, get rid of the electorial vote, lobbyist and greedy, crooked politicians.
Yep, Pelosi, Franks and the rest of the coalition along with their “one” can pull the rabbit right out of the hat, for this one.
I bet that would really bring harmony for all sexes and races.

Titus Hunt are you an economist? If you are your view of it is dichotomous to the views of economist I spoke to and read.
I did research and have an aunt who is a VP at an large econ firm in DC, so though I'm not an economist I did not go into this blindly.


I also noticed upon researching that if you read the views of various economist on the issue of plans most of McCains support came from non practicing economist or academics while the support for Obama's plan came overwhelmingly from economists who are practicing the science today, applying economics in the field currently. The consensus on the plans was that neither had a great chance of increasing the middle class but Obama's had a better chance of doing so.

Now economists, of all the disciplines, to be conservative, I know I come from a family of them, but my thoughts on the plan differences came from the above.


I believe there is a great misconception  about the youth vote because people rely on what they see in the media which does make youth appear dismal. I am the youth vote however and those who I associate with at the graduate school I attend in D.C. and otherwise are more likely to research their vote and vote based on issues.


You are going to find ignorance on both sides of the spectrum, I'm pretty certain there are McCain supporters who actually  misinterpreted his policy proposals and rhetoric as well.


Creating the jobs will come from pouring money into the economy like they did post depression. The GNP /debt ratio went to %125 percent, now I know this happened because of the war and that is how jobs were created but some authorities people have suggested this is actually what needs to be done now and as quickly as possible.


On corruption.  The  corruption that has washed over the capital in recent years is pretty acute, if you want to talk about corruption.
The leaders laughed off the idea of the public interest as nonsense; "They have made a cult of outsourcing and privatizing, they have wrecked established federal operations because they disagree with them, and they have deliberately piled up an Everest of debt in order to force the government into crisis. The ruination they have wrought has been thorough; it has been a professional job. Repairing it will require years of political action."

The free market was noted to be "not working for the middle" class some time ago, the roots of the free market are Evangelical and the system was devised to assist middle class growth and prosperity, over the last twenty give years — increasingly over the last 8 — the system was absconded by corporatists who made it work for them,  my understanding is the warning about this came  years ago from both financial and economic sectors but was ignored. There has been indications the free market needs serious adjustment if it is going to be any use to the middle class, post Bush era things are dire.



It seems  all of these people, by way of how we elect people in this country especially presidents but over all even the mayors of large cities, are supported by large money and they all owe people or groups of people something. It is not that I or others do not know where Obama came from and who has backed him it is that no matter who our real viable choice would have been there would have been a machine of some kind behind that person.

If we had a different process and if the average public ally funded  candidate could win than we wouldn't have to worry about this now would we? The very party system we hare prevents this.


I'm not talking about negative campaigning I was talking about smears which were  unparalleled in scope in this election.

Titus says....
"my father's business is thriving but if obama raises his taxes, he will shut his doors and 35 people will lose their jobs.  my father has already said that he will not tolerate it and does not have to"

Not wanting to be disrespectful.....This is a kind of extortion; your dad sounds like a spoiled child to me, and quite unpatriotic as well.  If he doesn't get his way, he wants to take his anger out on his employees?  WoW!
what a dick!

Olivia asserted:
"A conservative Christian White House practically destroyed this country,  not to mention killed 100,000 innocent Iraqis and displaced millions - costing us trillions, and instead of thinking about making it better you all sit around hoping things go worse for everyone so you can get your people in next time."

-Good point........the republicans pandered to the extreme christian right of their party, and the American people rejected this last tuesday.....

DS............
" I (and every christian that I know) HATE war!!!"
Yeah, reminds me of an army poster:
-"Kill'em ALL and let god sort 'em out!"

"But there will always be wars, and rumors of wars."
"God hates evil so much that war is sometimes necessary."
-Yeah, as long as the purveyors of war know they can count on your backing for their profit margin,there will always be wars and rumors of wars.....  So, is this the same god that sent Katrina to New Orleans to combat evil there?  If so, i wanna have words with it!

The evil that you speak of DS, is the evil of arms merchants finding popular support for foisting an unnecessary style of conflict on America.  Are we really fighting terrorists that attacked America, or are we fighting people who only want to defend their homes against foreign occupiers?  Bin Laden is still on the lam........this strategy that Bush/Cheney & McCain/Palin embraced has had no effect on finding those responsible.....

I am not naive enough to think that conflict is always unnecessary, but it becomes apparent after a while that the road we are traveling down is the wrong fork.  Do we continue to bang our heads against the wall to the point of a contusion?
"I also believe that a lot of the "innocent" civilians are not that innocent.  I believe that most of them are families of the terrorists who support their jihad.  And that makes them terrorists in my book.  If they don't want to be considered the same, then they need to either fight the terrorists, or get away from them entirely!"
-It's their HOME, DS.........you'd fight to protect your home just as they would!  So when we call in an air strike on a village that MAY  or MAYNOT have bona fide supporters of Bin Laden present, you can count on women and children becoming casualties.....that is a fact.
-Are they terrorists too?  Should we place that guilt upon a young soldier?
Is a baby guilty of his father's sins?
-These are some real questions you need to ask yourself, my friend.

Olivia:  i am compelled to make comments to your post but should ignore it based on your lack of understanding of the whole picture.  basic economics  is all that is necessary to understand obama's policies will not work.  it is funny that you don't remember all of the negative campaigning, commercials and lies that obama spread.  that is too funny for words.  but hey, if you want to believe in the tooth fairy, that is your choice.  obama spread more fear because of his lies than you are remembering apparently.  as for the youth, that is part of the problem.  my son has told me so many stories during this election about his college friends.  they understand very little and definitely do not understand respect and history much less anyone else.  being educated in books is ok but actually understanding the impacts of obama's policies are another.  you can't help the middleclass if companies are laying off.  you can't give the middleclass and people who don't pay taxes (welfare) tax credits and checks and think that will create the kind and quality of jobs we need in this country.  obama wants to create more entitlement programs (look at his plans) and that is called welfare.  we are a global economy and companies have to compete.  you must think that government can control companies.  that is incorrect.  companies will shut down completely or move overseas, layoff people, and raise prices.  my father's business is thriving but if obama raises his taxes, he will shut his doors and 35 people will lose their jobs.  my father has already said that he will not tolerate it and does not have to.  so before you make judgements that you know nothing about, you need to understand the business world.   by the way that sleezy obama had more lobbyists that gave him money than we will probably ever know because his money collecting was not transparent like McCain's was.  i can say that obama owes a lot of them favors now and it is apparent just with the teamsters union.  they will make him pay up.  the irs has lobbyists that are very powerful.  that is the reason a lot of laws are not changed to benefit the middleclass.  obama is all about corruption and that is evident especially in his chief of staff selection.  so you can build obama up all you want and ignore the truth but he is as corrupt as they come.  obama won because he offered change in the form of checks and tax credit.  a female voter on tv during an interview said she was voting for him and helped him out so now he owes her.  she said he would pay for her mortgage, bills and insurance.  now she was completely serious.  the reality is that obama is already backing down from his promises and using the economy as an excuse.  ha!  the economy has been in bad shape and he knows it.  but hey, the stupid people will believe him!

You might want to note that McCain did not vote once from the time the party nominated him in April until the bail-out, Obama voted 40 something times in that time frame.

There is no welfare state promised here, it is too bad really you all actually never read his policy proposals.

As much as the middle class in this country has shrunk this last 8 years, it is amazing how stubborn people are to see something different tried. We have been giving welfare to  corporations for years, increasingly so the last 8 years, and they have not been required to provided jobs or other economic benefits while accepting the subsidies and incentives which have grown so. If those incentives need now go to the middle class so much the better.

Bush changed the IRS code so that the most likely to be audited were middle income Americans, not High Income Americans - something  is wrong here folks.

It certainly can't get worse. Unemployment rate increased and retail sales lowest in years - that report just today. You all really have a lot of nerve to sit around thinking anything done by Obama could be worse. It will take two terms to just get us back to where we were if we can even get back there.

McCain ran the sleaziest campaign ever, not to mention it was a mess, and now they are tearing each other up trying to throw Palin under the bus.He is toast - Palin is not.

There will always be war as long as there is religion. But liberals are often highly religious they just happen to be reasonable and educated at the same time. A conservative Christian White House practically destroyed this country,  not to mention killed 100,000 innocent Iraqis and displaced millions - costing us trillions, and instead of thinking about making it better you all sit around hoping things go worse for everyone so you can get your people in next time.


Listen - they are really all the same party, just different ends of one line. In order to win the presidency in this country - or even the mayor ships of most small  cities, you must have the backing of "the party", which means the money.  Each end has it's own money backers and banks and oil companies - none looking out for your best interest.

Until that changes really nothing changes - every so many years one end of the party system wins R or L it is still the same system.

So, try next time to think a little out of the box.

There are a couple of excellent young conservatives writing at "The Atlantic", with some forward thinking on what conservatives really have to do in this new age. You all should read them and take their advice. Now that the youth vote is apparent, new generations out there who will be running the country and voting are now  savvy to political ploys, they realize pundits are not journalists, they are there to editorialize, they don't  like the false smear campaigns, and  are not are less likely to vote straight ticket more likely to be independent or at least vote that way - they vote situationally, not party.


When asked they prefer to see the stances of the politician on any given issue, when asked about war they ask what is the situation, when asked about money for education they ask where and what is the circumstance and  what is the funding now.

Here is to hoping politics can be reason based as opposed to emotion based and false fear driven.

David,

I really shouldn't respond to your last comment.....but I just want to make sure that you understand something.  I (and every christian that I know) HATE war!!!  But there will always be wars, and rumors of wars.  God already told us that.  God hates evil so much that war is sometimes necessary.  If we just tried to ignore evil, do you think it would just go away?  Do you think it would allow us to live in peace?  I don't think so!  What did we do to deserve 9/11?  We did nothing to justify that.  We weren't in war with anyone at that time.  But evil will never be satisfied to sit and do nothing to advance itself.  God's word instructs us to resist evil, and to come against evil.  We would not be christians if we sat back and allowed evil people/countries to kill us or their own, would we?  This battle with Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists is a battle of good vs evil, and we MUST defeat it!!  It is nazism revisited.  We must learn from the past, and destroy it before it destroys the rest of the world!  And if you can somehow agree with that premise, then you have to somewhow understand that because of their tactics of blending in with "some" innocent civilians, that there will be some collateral damage.  And I used the word "some" puposely.  I also believe that a lot of the "innocehnt" civilians are not that innocent.  I beleive that most of them are families of the terrorists who support their jihad.  And that makes them terrorists in my book.  If they don't want to be considered the same, then they need to either fight the terrorists, or get away from them entirely!  Unfortunately, that is the way wars are fought.  The pupose of war is to break things and kill people...always was, and always will be.  And this particuluar war is a war that I believe is justified by God.  He HATES war David, BUT He hates evil even more!  We all look forward to the day when war is not necessary.  But that time is in the future.  And it isn't going to happen until God puts an end to it Himself.  Man's heart is deceitfully wicked, who can trust it?  Nobody says the Lord.  You know as well as I do that the U.S. has been the greatest nation for good that the world has EVER seen!  We don't attack people just for giggles.  And don't give me the oil excuse either.  If it was that, we would have done it a long time ago!  So let's get real about this whole issue about war, and people being killed.  Yes, it's terrible!  And yes, we all hate it!  But as long as evil is in this world, there will be wars.  I am sorry that you had to see what you saw.  And I am sorry for ANYONE that has to see what you saw.  I was in the military for 6 years myself, and I saw a lot that I didn't like.  But God is faithful David.  He can help you overcome those memories if you let Him.  He is not testing you David.  He is waiting for you to come to Him, and to ask Him to help you.  He will forgive you for all of your sins, and He will cleanse you (and your mind) from all unrighteousness.  He promised you that, and He is not a liar!  His promises are for ALL who want to accept them.  Come to Him tonight, and allow Him to cleanse your heart and your mind!

Good night David

DS.  I hear you.  I really do, hear you.  Thank you and God Bless you too!

Wolfganganderson. 

I agree with you and concur.  Something inherently wrong with the whole system and I almost feel like we got what we deserve as a nation for falling asleep at the wheel.

Yes, if anything, it will be a disillusion of marriage by the left and others who were bedazzled by the charm.  Let's hope that is the worse case scenario before to much irreparable harm is done.

Thank you for your perspective.    I like sprite better anyway!

;-)

This election reminds me of the 'cola wars' of the 80's. Pepsi got a young music superstar (MJ) to endorse their product and captured a sizeable portion of the market from Coke.  Coke responded by introducing 'new Coke' which tasted similar to Pepsi and got an aging but trusted actor (BC) to tell the public it was a great product.  America hated new Coke and the campaign was a dismal failure.  When Coke went back to their previous fomula sales immediately went up.  The Pepsi endorser (MJ) was exposed as a deaviant, and Pepsi's bright future slipped backwards.  The GOP tried too hard to be like the DFL, and McCain's attempt to move the party to 'center-right' backfired.  The DFL's candidate (now President Obama) is a superstar, but in time he will be exposed as a sham and puppet.  If the GOP can regroup and get back to its conservative politics roots by 2012 the GOP will defeat the DFL.  Perry-Gingrich 2012

It's not that i think i can ever change your mind DS and BlueStarMom......my arguments are to shed light on your thinking and mindset.....
I have no corner on the market when i comes to truth or being right, i'll let everyone make that decision for themselves.

DS....I am sorry you found my remarks repugnant.  I doubt it is close to how repugnant i found it to gaze on those dead bodies.......
"......He will answer to God someday, as will all others in this world ....."
-Maybe god should answer for testing me in such a way....there are times i wish for anything to erase that image....
We should, as human beings and(as some of y'all are).....as christians, not be so willing to take a life.  DS, you make it sound as if it is OK to bomb a civilian area, so long as "terrorists" are in or suspected to be in the area.
But i guess you'd have to see something like dismembered, eviscerated  human remains for it to have real meaning.  If not for those  islamic people we kill, think of our people we are asking to commit these acts.  It is something they will carry with them for the rest of their lives.

BlueStarMom,

I know how much you care, and only want to help those in need.  I feel the same way, but I've realized that I am unable to force anyone to see the truth.  Only God can do that.  I've debated David and others here many times over similar issues, and they refuse to acknowedge truth even though I know that God has revealed it to them.  We need to shake the dust off our feet and move on.  I know that there are fertile hearts out there who are ready to receive the truth.  We need to find them.   God bless you sister!

Greeting DS.

You are appreciated. I have thought many, many times about "casting pearls before swine"  but kept thinking of "lipstick on a pig" and decided to just do my thing here, say what I know is true and you are correct.

I don't like arguing about it either.   I also must try to ignore someone trying to pull me into debate over a lost cause. I am not budging.

Ooops,

The reason I quoted your article below is to show you proof that we really do care about civilians, but it is the bad guys who use them as shields.  Get on their case about it, and stop blaming the good guys for their terrible acts!!

The forces, which have tens of thousands of troops here trying to put down a Taliban-led insurgency, say they take care to be precise in their targeting and insurgents sometimes use people as "human shields."

David/BlueStar/All,

I have been sitting here pulling my hair out as I follow your debate comparing abortion to the killing of innocent civilians during a war.   David, I find it  repugnant that you would even consider the two as equal.  The following was extracted from the end of article that you just sent:

The forces, which have tens of thousands of troops here trying to put down a Taliban-led insurgency, say they take care to be precise in their targeting and insurgents sometimes use people as "human shields."

Liberal arguments are all based from the viewpoint of "moral equvalence".  This is absolutely ridiculous, and it stems from the fact that liberals usually come from an "anti-God" position which doesn't have a baseline for what is right or wrong.  It all depends on what they believe is right, and that can be different for each person.  As we know, that philosophy is called humanism.  There are those on this site (myself included) who are chrisitians, who believe that God (and God alone) determines what is right or wrong.  And we learn what He believes through His Holy Word, the Bible.  We will never come to any agreement on these things because humanists don't believe in God.  Therefore, I would like to recommend thqt this discussion come to an end.  Only God will be able to change hearts and minds.  2Blue/Susan/Titus, and all other "believers"....."you are casting your pearls before swine."  David knows the truth, but doesn't want to believe.  He will answer to God someday, as will all others in this world who don't accept His "free" gift that He has offered to everyone who would only believe.  May God reveal Himself to all of you.  And when He does, don't reject Him.  You may not get a second chance!

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jqqR-38Zokz...
"....I don't believe in murdering babies as a form of "birth control"...."

-i would never ask you to have an abortion 2BlueStarMom. Yet,  to have an abortion is a choice that should be an option for a woman to have.

Many years ago, i had the opportunity to call in an air strike.  I had trained often as a member of the 82nd Airborne Division.........and when the time came, i did as i was ordered. The "target was taken out"and the "enemy" was neutralized , to use the popular euphemism.  Upon examining the remains of the building, i discovered many civilians were dead as well.  No, it's not murder.  It was merely an accident that we did not know civilians occupied that building. 

I think about my culpability in what could be called murder....and yes, i prefer to not think of it as such.  It is much easier to think of that incident as an accident, but i am not so sure.

David-- iam a woman and believe a woman has a right to choose.  with that said, it is a free country and a woman has a right to choose to sleep with whomever she wants.  that is freedom and she has choices and understands the consequences of those choices.  there are choices to be responsible or not to be responsible.  she also has the right to take preventative measures with the understanding that it may not always work.  there is so much freedom in those choices.  at the point of conception a child is conceived, and that child then has rights too!  a person has a right to do with his/her body as they please until a child is involved.  that crosses the line.  when my mother got pregnant with me at 16 years old in the 60s, my grandparents tried their best to convince her to get an abortion.  that is sick!  someone in the family slipped up and told me about this when i was a teenager, and i can tell you that it made a lasting impression!  people need to take responsibility for their actions, and that is one of the major problems in this country.  people should be free to do as they please as long as it does not impact others!   

war is war no matter what we think about it.  i'm sure if there was a way to stop the killing of innocent people, our military would do just that.  instead of being angry at this, i'm angry at the terrorists who caused the problem in the first place.  we have to stop them unfortunately.  it comes down to choices--we can either let the terrorists continue to hide and cause destruction all over the world or stop them.  it is a huge dilemma and i don't think there is an easy solution to the problem; however, terrorists have to be stopped.

David-- iam a woman and believe a woman has a right to choose.  with that said, it is a free country and a woman has a right to choose to sleep with whomever she wants.  that is freedom and she has choices and understands the consequences of those choices.  there are choices to be responsible or not to be responsible.  she also has the right to take preventative measures with the understanding that it may not always work.  there is so much freedom in those choices.  if a child is conceived, the child then has rights too!  a person has a right to do with his/her body as they please until a child is involved.  that crosses the line.  when my mother got pregnant with me at 16 years old in the
60s, my grandparents tried their best to convince her to get an abortion.  that is sick!  someone in the family slipped up and told me about this when i was a teenager and i can tell you that it made a lasting impression!  people need to take responsibility for their actions, and that is one of the major problems in this country.  people should be free to do as they please as long as it does not impact others!   

war is war no matter what we think about it.  i'm sure if there was a way to stop the killing of innocent people, our military would do just that.  instead of being angry at this, i'm angry at the terrorists who caused the problem in the first place.  we have to stop them unfortunately.  it comes down to choices--we can either let the terrorists continue to hide and cause destruction all over the world or stop them.  it is a huge dilemma and i don't think there is an easy solution to the problem; however, terrorists have to be stopped.

David-- iam a woman and believe a woman has a right to choose.  with that said, it is a free country and a woman has a right to choose to sleep with whomever she wants.  that is freedom and she has choices and understands the consequences of those choices.  there are choices to be responsible or not to be responsible.  she also has the right to take preventative measures with the understanding that it may not always work.  there is so much freedom in those choices.  if a child is conceived, the child then has rights too!  a person has a right to do with his/her body as they please until a child is involved.  that crosses the line.  when my mother got pregnant with me at 16 years old in the
60s, my grandparents tried their best to convince her to get an abortion.  that is sick!  someone in the family slipped up and told me about this when i was a teenager and i can tell you that it made a lasting impression!  people need to take resonsibility for their actions, and that is one of the major problems in this country.  people should be free to do as they please as long as it does not impact others!   

war is war no matter what we think about it.  i'm sure if there was a way to stop the killing of innocent people, our military would do just that.  instead of being angry at this, i'm angry at the terrorists who caused the problem in the first place.  we have to stop them unfortunately.  it comes down to choices--we can either let the terrorists continue to hide and cause destruction all over the world or stop them.  it is a huge dilemma and i don't think there is an easy solution to the problem; however, terrorists have to be stopped.

130

"social conservatives are so unyielding in their opposition to a woman's right to choose, yet they seem quite willing to engage in policy that will result in deaths."

As you know, I am a woman. 

I believe in womens rights. 

I don't believe in murdering babies as a form of "birth control"

No one likes war. No one likes the destruction it causes.

It is my opinion, listening to folks from the time of the late 60's until present, that those who want to burn our flag and spit the faces of Troops coming home from war, would rather we just sit back, let nation destroy nation, eventually leading to the demise of our own nation.

Peace, Love.  Yeah baby, I was there.  But when I put down the herb, I became enlightened!

"..........There is a HUGE difference between, accidental death and flat out, genocide."
-A policy that allows strikes on populated areas is NOT accidentally killing civilians.....the planners know full well that dropping a bomb on a village or town will result in civilian deaths.  We can pretend it is merely an accident, or we may rationalize the military necessity of such a strike.  In the end it can only be judged by what it is.
I brought this point up to illustrate the point that social conservatives are so unyielding in their opposition to a woman's right to choose, yet they seem quite willing to engage in policy that will result in deaths.
The end result is the same, putting a name to it is merely semantics.

Amber2--since you don't know my background and apparently don't understand economics yourself, you have no right to judge what qualifications i have or don't have.  obviously, from everything i've written about, i must have something that would qualify me to do so.

2BlueStarMom- i agree with you. 

our soldiers are compassionate people.  killing people is just not something that is done without weighing all of the other options.  unfortunately, we sometimes have to do the dirty work because other countries won't step up to the plate.  i know people will say we ruined relationships.  whether we did or didn't is no excuse for countries not to unite against evil.

amber2--

history has proven that even though a President surrounds himself with the best of the best, it is up to the President to make the right decisions.  that is the question.  you are looking at this situation from a narrow-minded perspective.  he is an extreme liberal that has gotten into bed with so many lobbyists.   he owes people favors and now it is payback.  he believes in taking private ballots away from people voting in unions.  that can get people killed.  he is an idiot!  if you promise people that you will pay their mortgage, insurance, etc., you will get votes.  that is what he has done.  hey, this is a cartoon soap opera and would be funny if it weren't for the casualities.  it is sad!  i don't feel sorry for the problems he will cause those who voted for him, but i do feel sorry for the folks who were trying to do the right thing and got caught in the stupidity of others.

I have friends who served in Nam.  173rd Airborne.  Hill 875.

Friendly fire killed a huge majority of those precious ones.

It was an accident.

There is a HUGE difference between, accidental death and flat out, genocide.

Period.

David:  your comment-any air strike on a populated location has a chance for "collateral damage".....
.....so what you are saying is:
We'll take a chance that some babies will die, because OUR freedom is more important than that child's life.
We can say it isn't "our practice" to murder children, yet it happens with obscene regularity.
Yes, we need to take a long look at our tactics in our war on terror.


i think we need to look at our tactics and every effort needs to be made to ensure we are protecting the innocent as much as possible.  however, there are going to be casualities of innocent people regardless.  are we supposed to let the terrrorists rule?  they hide in villages and in places where they think we won't go to ensure we can't get them.  after all efforts have been made to protect the innocent, hard decisions have to be made.

The Smokin' Frog:
" It appears to include a lot of thuggery and cheating. It appears to be a way of training people to serve yourself. And it worked for Obama beautifully."

-Maybe, but if i were to embark on a career of "thuggery and cheating"
I'd have opted for  Wall Street.  Logically, it seems much more profitable.

Community organizer. We have all seen what that entails. It appears to include a lot of thuggery and cheating. It appears to be a way of training people to serve yourself. And it worked for Obama beautifully.
Giving of oneself? He told a lot of hooey to get elected. He starts ultra-liberal, then he's centrist, then conservative. He apparently will say anything to anyone. Then he back tracks. Then we get nonstop, uhhh, uhhh, uhhh endlessly. He would find his words better if he was more honest about "what I always have stated". But he is always having to cover his tracks. So he has to search for words that are illusive enough to deceive. Who can believe him? Obama is about himself. Even the left wing commentators are starting to feel creeped out. I think his followers will be 'feeling' used very soon.

The Smokin' Frog says:
" I think the average conservative could compare their charitable giving next to Mr. Obama's and come out quite nicely. He is a bit cheap with his money, he just wants to spend ours."

i've heard this assertion from the right on a couple of occasions.....
Giving of one's self as a community organizer isn't exactly a self serving
-Is it?
With is standing and education, i am sure he could have commanded a much higher salary after graduation from law school, huh?

Titus Hunt writes:
"but ya know this doesn't compare to abortion....
.......admittedly there are instances in any war that are not perfect; however, we don't make it a practice to just kill innocent people."

-any air strike on a populated location has a chance for "collateral damage".....
.....so what you are saying is:
We'll take a chance that some babies will die, because OUR freedom is more important than that child's life.

We can say it isn't "our practice" to murder children, yet it happens with obscene regularity.

Yes, we need to take a long look at our tactics in our war on terror.

I hope the new president will be able to bring profitability to the nations businesses.  Unemployement is really growing and the solvency of businesses is more and more questionable everyday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKlMl4II3_0

Titus, i think you might be totaly full of shit about your level of expertise on economic issues. Today I heard David Brooks( I assume you know who he is) say that from an economic perspective Obama did well today by surounding himself in an all star cast of economic advisors/ specialist, he than went on to say that anyone in the with any expertise in economics would probobly recognise most if not all these people. let me ask you titus did you recognise any of these poeple.

The Smokin' Frog-- you are right!  why are liberals talking about his hypocrisy?  are they asleep? 
i heard part of his rhetoric today and couldn't believe the lack of substance in his words.  he dodged the question of if he would raise taxes on people who make $250k+.  i also could not believe he now realizes that the economy is worse than he thought.  now, i'm not in washington but understand the economy and the markets.  He either lied or is stupid!  i can't figure out which or maybe it is both?  he is starting the "backing down from his promises" process that i have blogged about before.  i knew he would weasel he way out of his statements, and people are stupid enough to buy it?  unbelievable.  he is a joke!

David-- your comment-Yet our national policy has bombs being dropped in the name of "Freedom" on little "brown babies" in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq?
-This doesn't raise any concern among those who cry out loudest about abortion as murder.  Why not worry about ALL babies?
Air strikes are just as gruesome to precious little ones.....

you and i have had great conversations even though we disagree.  but ya know this doesn't compare to abortion.  i would really like to know how you would propose going after terrorists. negotiating with them is not an option.  terrorists are killing people in their own countries; so what do we do to stop them?  would it be better to let them run rampant?  would it be better for us to fight them over there or wait until they come over here.  they hate us and i think they hate all people who want peace.  admittedly there are instances in any war that are not perfect; however, we don't make it a practice to just kill innocent people.  these terrorists are hiding out in villages using innocent folks for shields.  they are evil! 

i have a different view on abortion.  teach children to be responsible and respect one another.  parents need to teach them that if they don't want to get pregnant...................................  i take the most conservative route (no details needed) and taught that to my son.  he understands that he is never too old to be reprimanded (he is 23 now).  we are parents for life.  he now has very conservative values and does not believe in killing babies because of any stupid actions he may take.  so he respects the sanity of relationships.  however, i have also told him that that kind of behavior would never be acceptable in our family and i would not tolerate it.  so this is part of our belief system.  that is the answer!  if everyone practiced this kind of responsbility, these discussions would be few and far between.

Too many people are under the delusion that mankind is good. We're not. That includes all races and all religions. Their are no victims. No one is good. So we can claim we believe something one minute and sell out the next minute. That's fallen human nature. That's why conservatives lost their way. They, like the Democrats before them, were drunk with power.
If it's not too late, we can rebuild.
Unfortunately, instead of fixing a great but flawed system, capitalism, we will be taking a hard left turn into the morass of socialism. The demagoguery Obama has snowed the masses with, will be realized too late. His repetitive, manipulative reprimands are demeaning to any human being and yet the people continue to swoon over him. It is inexplicable. It is as if they want national parents telling them to clean their room or they're grounded. Swooning over the President of the United States should send alarm bells off in our heads.
Obama accused the right of selfishness, because they won't give him their money willingly. Someone is crazy here. The country takes a fortune from the citizens already and wastes every bit of it. I think the average conservative could compare their charitable giving next to Mr. Obama's and come out quite nicely. He is a bit cheap with his money, he just wants to spend ours. And yet the people take his accusations willingly.
Remember Obama said words matter. Unfortunately the swoon that his groupies are under prevent them from hearing and examining his words.
One way or another we are stuck with this guy for four years at least. Hopefully, he will not be true to his form.

And going back to the question on global warming even your nominee for president acknowledged that global warming is a serious issue and said if he was elected he would fight to limit CO2 contributions through thousands of green jobs. Only nutty right wingers still believe global warming isn't man made. - John McCain was not a conservatives nominee.  He won the Republican nomination largely because the media swayed voters to back him because he was the weakest of the candidates.  Actually, NOAA apparently agrees as I cited earlier.  It's actually scientific fact that global core temperature change is a cyclical process.  Otherwise, explain the Ice Age, and the subsequent warming trend that melted the ice.  Also explain why the Earth has gone through periods of total freeze as well as periods completely devoid of all ice and yet here we stand.  I'm not saying that man has not accelerated already natural effects in some manner, but it is naive to believe that we can stop it and utterly devoid of intelligence to believe we started it.

(1) People disagree that abortion is a murder of a living life. To me it doesn't matter one way or the other. If someone wants the fetus/baby removed from their body, that is their right at anytime. I would say that if it is possible to sustain the fetus/baby independent of the mother, then the physician should be obligated to do so. - If the fetus is as the consensus says (for those unsure, that means a majority of Americans) that a fetus is a human being and removing it would end its life, they may not do so, lest they commit murder.
This would permit everything up to third term abortions, and would eliminate abortions except in medical need in the third term while protecting the rights of the mother. - and yet Obama voted to allow not only late term abortions, but to allow doctors to kill babies born alive after botched abortions by letting them suffer through their first moments of life without the necessary medical attention.
(2) Californa's vote was no consensus. It was something like 51%-49%. However it is irrelevant. The purpose of the constitution is to prevent majorities from restricting the rights of the minority through legislation. The courts and the constitution our a check against the tyrany of the majority. I don't care if there is a consensus. The vote was wrong and I pray it is overturned in the courts. - A consensus is a majority, meaning more than 50%.  Also, California is one of the MOST liberal states and if in a state like California the measure is in favor of not allowing marriage between same sex couples can it be at all determined that it would be opposite in a national vote?  The purpose of the constitution is to do no such thing.  It's purpose is to state what the federal government may and may not do explicitly.  The courts are a check against the LEGISLATIVE body to ensure that it is acting within the boundaries set forth by the Constitution.  It cares not for majorities or minorities. The fact that you don't care if there is a public consensus shows the problem with liberal philosophy.  Your entire comment also shows your complete lack of understanding of the Constitution.
However the idea that allowing two men to get married is in anyway a comment on your or my marriage is akin to saying that my choice of chicken for lunch diminishes your choice of fish. Its absurd. - You're missing the point.  Look at it from this perspective.  Marriage is traditionally seen as a religious ceremony.  Most religions do not recognize homosexual couples.  Allowing homosexual couples to become "married" based on a government sponsored ceremony is dismissive of religious tenents and goes against the idea that religions may determine their own moral identities.  This is not just a social argument, it has implications in other areas.  The idea of a civil union as pointed out just now by my wife is splitting hairs doesn't address this fact.  Allowing civil unions to be performed and thereby provide a legal basis for homosexual couples to have the same rights as heterosexual couples without damaging the religious intent of traditional marriage is I think the best course of action.
Additionally marriage should have no "values" component as far as the government is concerned. It is a legal contract with tax benefits that should be available to anyone. The extra values should come from the community, in which case you are free to join a church that does not marry same sex couples. - What you are missing is that marriage has only relatively recently become a government concern.  It's origin is in a religious ceremony asking God to favor the desires of the couple to wed and therefore allow them to procreate under Gods protection.  In this context the extra values that you state are already part of the idea of marriage.  This is why I suggest civil unions as a way to bypass confusing the religious value of "marriage".
(3) It does not matter if Global Warming is exclusively caused by man. We know that it is happening and that while there may be natural causes too, we are contributing to it. The fact that it is happening and that the consequences are dire is enough to warrant action. Even Sarah Palin acknowledged this. - I too acknowledge that global warmin or cooling is occuring.  I say that the left wing extremist view that we must save the planet is futile since the planet has undergone much more drastic and faster global cooling phases many times in its existence.  While I do believe we have areas where we can improve waste output, you lefties also shoot down every other currently feasible option to address the issue.
Actually for me fighting global warming (imparticular having republicans lead the charge on this) is a direct result of the fact that I am very pro-industry and very much an economics first fiscal conservative, "earth mother" be damned. I see the negative effects of Global Warming on farming and fishing as very harmful to our economy. I also think that the technologies required to combat global warming will give us a major edge on the world stage by reducing our dependence on foreign oil, removing the constraint of limited energy on industry and fostering a strong science/information driven economy. - I see the negative effects of liberal global warming fights as harming farming and fishing.  Especially farmers, of which I know quite a few who have had to move away from livestock due to feed prices.  Ethanol mandates by global warmin leftists are wrecking farming so please don't use these indutrious men and women as a scapegoat for your excessive plans.  Tell me, would you support Nuclear power, clean coal technology or coal to oil?
No, I am not a green liberal. I want low taxes, a strong economy and the maximization of individual liberty. The Republican party no longer represents that. Due to the extreme attacks led by Republicans on individual liberty and the constitution, I was forced to vote for a Democrat. Realize that this was very much against my self interest. When Obama talks about taxing the rich, he means me. - You weren't forced to, you chose to.  And not JUST a Democrat, but THE most liberal one out there.  You voted for a left wing extremist and you did it of free will.  It's time you took a look at what you believe and realize that if what you say is true that just as surely as Republicans have abandoned conservatives, you have abonded conservatism.  If what you say is as I suspect nothing but lies and pandering to cover up your liberal tendencies to your high rolling friends, then save it.

I have no problem with conservatism at its roots. The belief that people are responsible for their own wealth and big government should not interfere with the rights of ordinary citizens is one I don't agree with, but an opinion I respect. - What's not to agree with?  We should all start with the same chance to succeed and we do.  There is nothing stopping anyone from using their best talents to succeed.
What I want to know is where conservatives strayed so far from their roots.
The reason they lost this election badly was because they alienated moderates and minorities, who went for Obama. - I think you are right here and I would say to you that Conservatives have not strayed,  Republicans have.  They are NOT one in the same.  Conservatives identify more closely with Republicans in a general sense but moderate Republicans lean further and further left and become "me too" Republicans when power shifts (examples: The New Deal Era and The Great Society Era).  John McCain is NOT a Conservative, never has been and never will be.
Where in the constitution does it say homosexuals have the right to marry? - It doesn't, which is precisely why it is up to individual states to decide which they currently do.  And they do so in most states by placing propositions on the ballots during election years.
Where in the constitution does it say the government has a say over women's reproductive health? - Which is precisely why there is no reason the supreme court should have ever ruled in the Roe vs. Wade case.  The Supreme court was meant to determine the Constitutionality of the cases brought before them and NOT to legislate from the bench.
Why do many conservatives feel the need to ethnically "cleanse" America of all immigrants? Our country was founded by immigrants and yet many conservatives feel they as white people are superior to immigrants who just want a better life in this country. - There's no such thing happening here.  In fact, Conservatives have simply asked that immigrants follow our nations laws when immigrating to our nation.  What's wrong with that?  This nation established laws when it was founded and those laws should be followed unless overturned by subsequent generations using the correct process.
The constitution implies the separation of church and state and yet conservatives just want to ignore this while our country goes down in flames. - Ignore it how?  The seperation between church and state only ensures that there is no national religion.  That the government shall not force anyone to worship based on one religion ergo the Church of England.  It allows tolerance for all religions and this nation still does.  Jews, Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus and all other religions are free to worship here peacefully.  There is an EXTREME difference between that and what you seem to mean which is that religion should be removed from all consideration when choosing leaders.  In fact, religion has been a driving factor in the choice of American leaders since the founding.
Ignore the clause at the beginning of the second amendment. Yep. - If you mean the clause referred to by Justice Scalia in his ruling, he took the entire sentence out of context.  He pounced on what he saw as grammatical errors and used them as the basis for his argument.  The sentence is clear enough in its original writing that only a power drunk Supreme Court Justice could misinterpret it.
Ignore torture laws and basic human rights. Yep. - Ignore torture laws?  If you mean international Geneva convention laws, there is little reason to follow such laws when facing an opponent who ignores these laws and has been trained to persist based on the previous adherence by our nation to these laws.  Also, I still have yet to see where the laws of the Geneva convention have been circumvented.
Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma regularly states his votes in the senate based on the bible. America was not founded as a christian nation it was founded as a nation accepting of all people. And finally the respect all americans deserve will happen under PRESIDENT Obama. - If you really believe that, then you obviously haven't looked at anything that the Obama, Reed and Pelosi regime has promised.  Let's start with the Fairness Doctrine which will silence ONLY conservative talk radio.  This doctrine is NOT being forced into the liberal favoring print or television media.  Only the radio media which is heavily favored by conservatives is subject to the doctrine.  What's unfair about the "Fairness Doctrine"?  It forces radio stations to either give airtime to liberal talk radio, which has repeatedly failed (ex: Air America) or to shut down talk radio completely which is the more likely of the two.  That's called silencing the opposition and it's counter to every single tenent this country was founded on, starting with Freedom of speech AND of the press.

And going back to the question on global warming even your nominee for president acknowledged that global warming is a serious issue and said if he was elected he would fight to limit CO2 contributions through thousands of green jobs. Only nutty right wingers still believe global warming isn't man made.

2BlueStarMom writes:
I challenge you to try watching 2 minutes of one video showing how these precious little ones are torn to pieces, head coming off, hands, limbs, body parts and then you tell me "equal rights!"

-Yet our national policy has bombs being dropped in the name of "Freedom" on little "brown babies" in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq?
-This doesn't raise any concern among those who cry out loudest about abortion as murder.  Why not worry about ALL babies?

Air strikes are just as gruesome to precious little ones.....

Evan Q and people like you are the reason this country has not progressed into country of tolerance and acceptance.

Well Said Evan-Q

I have no problem with conservatism at its roots. The belief that people are responsible for their own wealth and big government should not interfere with the rights of ordinary citizens is one I don't agree with, but an opinion I respect.
What I want to know is where conservatives strayed so far from their roots.
The reason they lost this election badly was because they alienated moderates and minorities, who went for Obama.
Where in the constitution does it say homosexuals have the right to marry?
Where in the constitution does it say the government has a say over women's reproductive health?
Why do many conservatives feel the need to ethnically "cleanse" America of all immigrants? Our country was founded by immigrants and yet many conservatives feel they as white people are superior to immigrants who just want a better life in this country.
The constitution implies the separation of church and state and yet conservatives just want to ignore this while our country goes down in flames.
Ignore the clause at the beginning of the second amendment. Yep.
Ignore torture laws and basic human rights. Yep.
Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma regularly states his votes in the senate based on the bible. America was not founded as a christian nation it was founded as a nation accepting of all people. And finally the respect all americans deserve will happen under PRESIDENT Obama.

blue star mom- I cannot begin to respond to all of your rants, but I come on here because before the election I wanted to get a good idea of the opposition to Obama's candidacy and see if any of it made any sense to me.  Listen, I respectfully defer to your right to have any and all opinions and viewpoints that you see fit.  I do resent your hateful accusations of my spiritual disposition, because my reading of the Bible specifically teaches me to beware of false profits- and you, BlueStar Mom, are a false profit.  In fact, I would argue that your hateful characterization of those who concern themselves with helping the poor, uplifting the marginalized, and opposing war, are the devil's agents.  But that's just my take.  Now go and worship your king and I'll worship mine.  I must go now and perform my Obama rituals..... :)

Can you say "Heil Hitler?!"


Obama To Re-Appoint Pro-Fairness Doctrine Commissioner To The FCC

Here we go! This is going to silence us for good folks!

I'm quite sure the democratic radical left is going to love this one!

Besides the Conservative voice, Christian T.V., Radio etc is now going to be silenced!

Henry Rivera, a longtime radical leftist, lawyer and former FCC commissioner, is expected to lead the push to dismantle commercial talk radio that is favored by a number of Democratic Party senators.

Rivera will play a pivotal role in preventing critics from having a public voice during Obama’s tenure in office.

Rivera, who resigned from the FCC nearly a quarter-century ago during the Reagan years, believes in a doctrine of “communications policy as a civil rights issue”. His exit during the Reagan Administration paved the way for the Fairness Doctrine’s repeal when the late president appointed Patricia Diaz Dennis in 1986 to fill out the rest of Rivera’s term.

Had this not occurred, talk radio as we know it today would not exist. That gives Rivera’s new task a great deal of personal urgency: it’s a late-career, second chance opportunity to shut down opposition voices that have been allowed to flourish since his depature from the commission. In particular, Rivera is known for his push for more minority broadcasting ownership, but this issue has largely been rendered obsolete as former commercial broadcasting empires teeter on the brink of bankruptcy.

Rivera’s first opportunity to eliminate commercial talk radio will occur in June 2009, as the term of Republican Robert McDowell expires and he can be replaced with a pro-Fairness Doctrine Democrat.

That will give the commission a three-vote Democratic majority, though the final two seats must remain in Republican hands. If they can strong-arm one of the three Republicans into leaving early, this can be implemented even sooner.

Good grief~

2Bluestarmom:
While I share the opinion that abortion is wrong.  As a conservative non religious (in the conventional sense anyway) I must impress upon you that while arguing with anyone not as "righteous" as yourself that the need does exist to keep the references to "Him" to a minimum.  In my personal faith, God plays a central role in creating life and homes for that life (like the universe) but does not concern himself with daily life.  There's no grace of God in my faith, there's no prayer to his mercy or attachment to bibles, commandments or other such likely man made religious artifacts.  In fact, those things in my faith are simply idols, tokens created by man as an early system of government.  I feel much the way the founding fathers felt about God.  He should be thanked for all he has given us but we are not under his direct guidance.  In my faith, it is truly free will.  Here is a basic over view of my religion:
Deism is the belief that a supreme God exists and created the physical universe, and that religious truths can be arrived at by the application of reason alone, without dependence on revelation.

(1) People disagree that abortion is a murder of a living life. To me it doesn't matter one way or the other. If someone wants the fetus/baby removed from their body, that is their right at anytime. I would say that if it is possible to sustain the fetus/baby independent of the mother, then the physician should be obligated to do so.

This would permit everything up to third term abortions, and would eliminate abortions except in medical need in the third term while protecting the rights of the mother.

(2) Californa's vote was no consensus. It was something like 51%-49%. However it is irrelevant. The purpose of the constitution is to prevent majorities from restricting the rights of the minority through legislation. The courts and the constitution our a check against the tyrany of the majority. I don't care if there is a consensus. The vote was wrong and I pray it is overturned in the courts.

However the idea that allowing two men to get married is in anyway a comment on your or my marriage is akin to saying that my choice of chicken for lunch diminishes your choice of fish. Its absurd.

Additionally marriage should have no "values" component as far as the government is concerned. It is a legal contract with tax benefits that should be available to anyone. The extra values should come from the community, in which case you are free to join a church that does not marry same sex couples.

(3) It does not matter if Global Warming is exclusively caused by man. We know that it is happening and that while there may be natural causes too, we are contributing to it. The fact that it is happening and that the consequences are dire is enough to warrant action. Even Sarah Palin acknowledged this.

Actually for me fighting global warming (imparticular having republicans lead the charge on this) is a direct result of the fact that I am very pro-industry and very much an economics first fiscal conservative, "earth mother" be damned. I see the negative effects of Global Warming on farming and fishing as very harmful to our economy. I also think that the technologies required to combat global warming will give us a major edge on the world stage by reducing our dependence on foreign oil, removing the constraint of limited energy on industry and fostering a strong science/information driven economy.

No, I am not a green liberal. I want low taxes, a strong economy and the maximization of individual liberty. The Republican party no longer represents that. Due to the extreme attacks led by Republicans on individual liberty and the constitution, I was forced to vote for a Democrat. Realize that this was very much against my self interest. When Obama talks about taxing the rich, he means me.

There you go mama...:
On President O. "advising sesions":
(dear E.A.S.O.L theachers, I'm sorry for the writing failures, I fast blog)...
wea, wea, the issue...
Free advise on terror to the future President, WHY NOT?:

unique(for free)terroradvise Location: FL

Subject: Mr. President, I, as a cyberstrategist..
Considering your already brieffing on terror sesion, I'm sure you NOW UNDERSTAND AND CHANGED YOUR VIEW ON THE WAR, ISRAEL IS WATCHING "YOUR JEWISH, as M A N Y who ilustrat our selves on the brieffings YOU  S  H  A  L  L   STILL RECIEVE"...
You know, you have internet since at list a decade (forget intranets on USA), YOU KNOW WHAT I SPEACK, THE PEOPLE KNOW real terror threats Cubans or Panamanians , former U$$r, YOU KNOW!, like me know for self-country leftism" know as future President, I have to let you know this:
apart on pollS&machinery IM OK 1000% SURE INTELLIGENCE BRIEFINGS WILL TAKE YOU "CLOSER TO MY OPINION"S SOURCES AND INSTANTLY UNDERSTAND, do not mistake me for something else I have being "talking about"...
You didn't make it, the complete plan, you know the absolute senate and house, stop the terror logistics, now that you can, and expect opinions against, like BUSH, and the history of Presidents H A V E, to show freedom, and not dictatorship, is on gov.
Remember (to democratic "intelligence operatives", "my" pursuers), the freeterror reports?, well, your candidate just "relaxed&opportunity-shoot Bush "from the economic" (dem-"created cri$i$, while Iran&Chavez&7%demcongress drove ga$ price$ record, as the crisis STILL ON) polls&partisanMedia" "distance", whitout knowing ACORN-kind of terror opportunity logistic org$ (money from US Gov, worst).
I'm sure you will instantly show this crisis won't be another opportunity terror target, Mr. WE STILL AT WAR, watch Battlestar Galactica kind of social terror infiltration threats, I'm sure you will help take out "power possitions" at list ACORN social stability (no more ELECTORAL FRAUDS) personnel out of any "power possitions, easy? isn't it?.
love,
2ndBluestar intellectually adopted platonic vagabound 42years only male wizard and angels believer...
just, J, J the cyberstrategist...

(1) There is no consensus on abortion like you state. I believe that all people should have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies at anytime. Its not governments job to tell anyone how to live.  - But, it's against the law to commit suicide.  This only really applies if the mother is the only person affected.  In the case of abortion, especially late term abortions, the mother is not the only affected person.  This isn't a tattoo or a piercing, this is the indiscriminate murder of a living human being.  FYI: I support hunting for food or even for sport if you utilize the animal, but not poaching where a large percentage of the animal is left unused, just in case your liberal mind comes up with this argument.
(2) Equal rights for gays is not about reparations. It is a continuation of the above, people should be able to live, screw, love whoever they want. Government has no place in anyone's marriage. Its a contract, and it should be available to anyone and everyone. - No one disagrees that people should be allowed to live their lives the way they choose.  At least not a large percentage.  There are some on the religious right who refuse to accept that perhaps being gay isn't going to damn the entire world, but for the majority of us it's not about that.  It's about our right to raise our children with our own morals and values.  As was shown in CALIFORNIA of all places just this election cycle, the consensus is that government should NOT amend the current laws which define marriage as between a man and woman.  No one I have heard denies the need for civil unions or some other such legal designator that allows gay couples or couples unmarried who wish to impart benefits like hospital visitation or medical benefits to their partner.  One of the main arguments against gay MARRIAGE is that marriage has traditionally included the precept that children would be a result through reproduction based on conception between the married partners.  It's a biological fact that women cannot father children, nor can men give birth.
(3) Global warming is fact. It is a danger to American industry and the American way of life. It would be far better if Republicans acknowledge this and attempted to come with sensible solutions that did the least harm to American business, rather then let the Democrats much up the solution and cause tons of collateral damage.  - Show me SOMETHING that states conclusively that only man has caused global warming.  Then explain the extreme climate shifts since the beginning of the earth.  I'll not deny that we may be playing a small part in this, but it is an extremely small one.  You libs seem to think we can save the planet, well guess what, the planet doesn't need saving.  Plagues, wildfires, devastating hurricanes and tornadoes, tsunami's and tidal waves are fully capable of defending the earth against invaders.  Besides, if CO2 is the cause of all of this, explain this to me:  CO2 naturally occurs in the air.  Plants use CO2 as food and keep the carbon, exhaling the oxygen thus sustaining human life.  If more CO2 is in the air, that would to me ensure that more plants had more food and therefore that more oxygen would be exuded which would then be recycled and so on.  So in essence, more CO2 OUGHT to create more plants, which OUGHT to make this planet greener and shut you up.  It's not shutting you up tho.  Why?  Because you're not PRO-EARTH, you're ANTI-INDUSTRY.  Just admit it.  Then we can move on with real positions instead od made up rhetoric.

2BlueStarMom: Your undermining your own argument. If all it takes to persuade people not to have an abortion is education, then simply educating your community should be enough to stop them. We don't government involved in this anymore then we need them legislating on health care.

2BlueStarMom: If what you say is true, then there is no need for government to legislate on abortion as simply educating your community on what it actually is will be sufficient to persuade people not to have them. Why involve government?

And Catholics would say that a condom is murder. You would likely disagree with that. If you don't want to have an abortion, then don't have one.

I have a very simple criteria. The mother should have the right to remove whatever she wants from her body whenever she wants. If the doctor is able to sustain the fetuses life independent of the mother without jeopardizing the mother's health, then he should be obligated to do so.

The idea that government will be anymore effective at legislating values or morality then it is social services is absurd. Government has no business in any of it. By all means, work with your community to persuade people to choose values that you think are important. Keep government out of it.

Here is your challenge. I doubt most of you will have the stomach or courage to see this.

You don't want to know.  It's too horrific and it will reveal the true character of your hearts!

This, is what our civilization has come to!

This is why God has said "enough!"

Heaven is silent.  Those who are sleeping, have missed hearing his voice.

He has not missed hearing these voices!

http://www.obamamustsee.com/

No compromise to our True, King.

Let's just forget about the titles, democrat, republicans, liberals, right wing.

A spade is a spade.  You can't straddle the pole.

Believers and non believers.

God fearing, God hating.

Equal rights?!  I'm a woman. The human being that is created within me, is a human being.  He knew us before we were formed in the womb!

That means, we had fellowship with Him, conscientiousness and viability before we were formed!

What was meant for emergency  life threatening crisis, is nothing more than birth control.   To make life more convenient.

Like everything else in this nation, it is abused and the blood is justified by those who have lost touch and their natural affections!

I challenge you to try watching 2 minutes of one video showing how these precious little ones are torn to pieces, head coming off, hands, limbs, body parts and then you tell me "equal rights!"

And they feel every second of this buddy!

You won't do it. None of you will.  Those little one's blood is still screaming out to the farthest ends of the universe and have reached the throne of God.

Don't presume for one millisecond, he condones this!

Either your with him or your against him.

Evan- You managed to pick the three most idiotic points of conservatism to highlight. In fact these are the three things that force me to vote democrat even though I am very much the fiscal conservative.

(1) There is no consensus on abortion like you state. I believe that all people should have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies at anytime. Its not governments job to tell anyone how to live.

(2) Equal rights for gays is not about reparations. It is a continuation of the above, people should be able to live, screw, love whoever they want. Government has no place in anyone's marriage. Its a contract, and it should be available to anyone and everyone.

(3) Global warming is fact. It is a danger to American industry and the American way of life. It would be far better if Republicans acknowledge this and attempted to come with sensible solutions that did the least harm to American business, rather then let the Democrats much up the solution and cause tons of collateral damage.

Winning conservative points: Small government and low taxes. However small government and individual liberty isn't just for Christians. Government shouldn't tell anyone how to live. Abortion, marrying the same sex, owning guns, prayer, government should say absolutely nothing about all of it.

"your boy W brought that one on.  The nastiness has come from vitriolic sentiments of the Rove ilk "

So it is the fault of the conservatives that the libs threw an 8 year hissy fit?? Gosh, didn't see that one coming--not.

"Maybe your anger is ideological, maybe you need to dig into your heart and check your racism-meter, I don't know. "

Still playing the racism card?? Just can't understand how anybody could not vote Obama?? That person must be racist!!! LOL. I have outlined the reasons Obama is gonna ruin the economy and further divide the country and you either don't listen, don't care, or maybe you "lack the critical thought processes to make an informed decision", I don't know. Or maybe, in your heart, your fear voting against a black man would label you "racist". You see, I don't. I can disagree with anybody I like, and I don't care if they are a bright green color. You can call me racist or say I really hate green people, I don't see in terms of color, I see in terms of best for the country. Since your "president" hates this country, there is the problem.

And yes, you are absolutely right, it is over. He is the President. And it must gall to know that the "republican" party and all the conservatives handled this with more class than ANY of your party members over the last eight years. We aren't screaming about "stolen elections" and how we alienated the guy who created the internet. He won, or more to the point, the "republicans" lost, and I sincerely hope he does not apply the policies he has spoken of, but he is the guy. I will respect him as much as the libs respected Bush. But if you expect me to fall in line and change who I am ideology wise to "come together", you are waaay off. Not gonna happen. I am gonna use every tool at my disposal to keep that ultra-liberal goober from screwing up what we have worked sooo hard for.

Call me racist. Call me stupid. But always call me American.

Harrysmom;

No, Not.  It's not over.


Perhaps it's just my simple little mind, why are liberals posting here?
Do they think we are interested in their continued filthy mouth propaganda?
Your hate transmits through the sources you use to extol it.
What strikes me as insanely hilarious, they have been for decades now, telling conservatives they don't want us forcing our beliefs on them.
The truth of the matter is, they want to force their beliefs on us and are furious that we won't change our beliefs.
The darkness in the  hearts of so many who live with deception, cannot stand the light of truth.
You have the nerve and audacity to scream out that we have kept you in bondage.  What a joke. Get a grip.  The proof is in the pudding.  All you have to do is turn on the t.v. and read the newspapers to see who is the oppressed people in this country.
I see the hate and feel your murderous intentions to wipe Christians off the face of the earth, just as Islamist want the Jews wiped off the face of the earth.
I have watched this happening for decades.
They are deceived and want us to jump off the cliff with them.
No thanks.  Man has tried for decades to annihilate our beliefs.
You will not succeed.
It is ridiculous for you to come on here, where no one cares what you think because it's the same old rhetoric, the same arguing, the same agenda and the same warped thinking.
You have your king.  He is your king.  You asked for him, you got him
You have achieved your Sodom and Gomorrah that has spread like cancer throughout this country.
Now you will have to suffer the consequences of your choice.
Not our choice.  Yours.
I suggest you go to your liberal blog sites, and worship each other and your king, where you are wanted and your proliferation of lies can reproduce.
 
Evidently your idea of "replenishing the earth" holds a much different concept of what ours does.
At the rate your going, there will be no one left to "replenish"  which actually, is not a bad idea. 

You will destroy yourselves with your ideologies and your false religions.
Your agenda will be your demise.
Killing hundreds of millions of unborn babies, who's very blood is crying out to our Heavenly Father, has caused his patience to cease.
You have mocked God and your hearts are like stone.  You have no conscience, no morals, no remorse for the hate you have spewed and the blood on your hands.
Your actions speak volumes.
Go serve your king.  It's your king, your fight.
You have grieved the Holy
Spirit and you are left wanting.

Liberal talking point from Dan #1:
1. Give women the right to choose to have an abortion. - So you support infanticide?  Regardless of what Obama and his minions in the press say, his voting record is clear, he voted FOR a bill that would kill babies born alive because it would burden the mother.  Also, MOST of America would argue that abortion is murder by definition.  You want a woman to have the right to choose, in most cases, they have it.  They CHOOSE to have sex which leads directly to pregnancy.  So, you don't want a baby?  Don't have sex.  Simple choice, no need for abortion.  Rape and incest are a different argument that I can conceed the point for assuming it's proven and not a woman crying rape after a consentual act.
2. create equal rights for all people regardless of sexual orientation - I believe that equal rights was proclaimed in the 60's.   We're about 50 yrs past that.  Women and miniorities, with the exception of millions of ILLEGAL aliens already recieve equal pay.  What you libs are fighting for is REPARATIONS.  You believe that women and minorities should be paid MORE than white men.  That's not equal, it's called a make up call.
3. finally address global warming as a serious issue facing our country - Global warming is at best a theory and at worst a lie. There is not a single global warming scientist that shows conclusive evidence linking man made causes to global warming.  In fact, quite the contrary is true, the most conclusive and damning evidence suggets that global warming is a natural and cyclical change in the climate of the world.  Some of you on the left MAY have heard of this great event a few thousand years ago called "The Ice Age".  During that time period global core temperatures fluctuated by 18 degrees farenhieght.  I know some people like proof, so take a look at these studies that show just these arguments. 
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ice/chill.html
http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/watch/climate...
http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/watch/climate...>

Either the right will take notice of why they just got their clocks cleaned or they won't.  I, for one, do not think one party rule will be the best thing for the country, but your boy W brought that one on.  The nastiness has come from vitriolic sentiments of the Rove ilk and nastiness eventually causes implosion. I understand that you are angry now, Russell.  I felt the same way exactly 4 and 8 years ago.  Maybe your anger is ideological, maybe you need to dig into your heart and check your racism-meter, I don't know.  But this posturing on your part isn't going to change a thing.  Drink the kool-aid Russell- it's over.

It is kind of hard to be upset with Democrats for not compromising with GWB when even Republicans haven't wanted to work closely with him for years.

Statements like "Obama is an america hating loon and you people are happy about that? WTF, over." are as absurd as the whole "Bush is evil" mantra on the left. Both sides of that coin are juvenile and absurd.

I have to say harrysmom, if the shoe fits.....

And I swear, if I hear one more new story with some liberal goober smoocher talking about "first, we need to stop the partisan politics and come together" I am gonna puke! What part of any of that did they do under the 8 years of Bush. NONE. I am gonna afford them the same consideration. "Pres" Obama is an america hating loon and you people are happy about that? WTF, over.

I openly admit that I've written some nasty jabs at conservatives on here.  I also openly admit that conservatives are in deep doo-doo at the moment, and regardless of some ungracious wins in election years gone past, I am sympathetic- because I can empathize.  But let me harken some other sentiments that might be helpful for a new conservative party- after all, I voted for Reagan- twice- and I, too, have some conservative leanings.  If nothing else, I'm a big believer in a dual party check and balance, which we clearly won't be having for at least the next two years.


1. stop claiming the moral high ground and claiming patriotism as your own.  it's offensive and foolish. 
2. stop practicing reductionism when describing people (ie: Joe the Plumber, etc..) and policy (raise your taxes).  This is where the anti-intellectual sentiments come into play- and frankly, good conservative leaders are very intellectual.  In fact, it requires a good deal of intellectualism to effectively lead at the state and national level- so stop pretending that people like Sarah Palin are qualified.  it's ridiculous.
3. stop using negative attacks in your campaigns.  The Rove effect is over and it's another example of anti-intellectualism that only serves to piss off people like me who have dragged themselves out of poverty by means of education.  
4. be true to your constituency.  If you are going to run on "working class values," then have them and live them.  McCain was talking out of both sides of his mouth and everyone knew it.


If the conservative party wants to recoup in the next few years, which I hope they will, then they should take heed of these points.  They will then, somehow, have to convince people who earn 35,000 dollars a year, shop at Walmart, and pay more on gas than they do on food, that a corporate run culture is best for them.  It might be a hard sell, but at least it will be made honestly.  Until they do this, I, and the rest of my 'comrades' (sic) will continue to slam them mercilessly.

conservatives are backwards thinking tards, u lose.

Dan-- one of my previous posts!

yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.
He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 
1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac (by the way he got rich while he was there; surprise!), a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 
2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.
3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  (he did this in chicago and that is one of the reasons they are having financial problems) way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 
4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  he also said republicans can go F... themselves!  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 
5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  censorship!  what great guy!
6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.
7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 
so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  is anyone getting the picture now or do i need to take art lessons to draw you some pictures.  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington. 

would you like me to go on and continue the list of why obama is corrupt and will ruin this country or do you now get the picture?

yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.
He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 
1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac (by the way he got rich while he was there; surprise!), a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 
2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.
3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  (he did this in chicago and that is one of the reasons they are having financial problems) way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 
4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  he also said republicans can go F... themselves!  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 
5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  sensorship!  what great guy!
6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.
7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 
so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  is anyone getting the picture now or do i need to take art lessons to draw you some pictures.  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington. 

would you like me to go on and continue the list of why obama is corrupt and will ruin this country or do you now get the picture?

yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.
He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 
1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac (by the way he got rich while he was there; surprise!), a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 
2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.
3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  (he did this in chicago and that is one of the reasons they are having financial problems) way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 
4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  he also said republicans can go F... themselves!  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 
5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  sensorship!  what great guy!
6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.
7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 
so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  is anyone getting the picture now or do i need to take art lessons to draw you some pictures.  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington. 

would you like me to go on and continue the list of why obama is corrupt and will ruin this country or do you now get the picture?

Dan  -- are you kidding me?  obama tried to instill fear into everyone but you either just didn't pay attention or care to acknowledge it.  a few weeks ago he was in FL giving a stump speech.  there were a lot of older people there.  (i saw this on TV.)  he told them that McCain wanted to mess with their social security and privatize it.  well that is a bold face lie.  he wanted to keep the older folks' social security the way it is and let younger folks have more choices in safe investments to give them a chance for better returns.  however, the younger folks would have a choice of whether to do this or not.  so obama tried to instill fear into the older folks and a lot of them believed him because they don't know any better.  boy, what a nice guy this obama is.  his elderly aunt is living in Boston, MA in government housing on welfare.  she is walking with a walker and is here illegally but i can't blame her because she may not understand.  how is this hope when obama is living in a $1 million mansion and the aunt he spoke so highly of in his book is living in proverty (he didn't deny he knew about this and only denied knowing she was here illegally--he is a lawyer and she is elderly, duh).  now keep in mind the government (taxpayers) are keeping her up.  his uncle still lives in africa making $24/yr and obama visited him 2 years ago.  he is not helping them and his rhetoric says to help your neighbors and brothers and sisters and give to others!  he is a total jerk!  of course, you will ignore that he only give 3 to 5% of his large multi-million dollar salary to charity.  you don't want to discuss this?  how about the corrupt chief of staff he just hired (see my comments below)?  how do you call this hope?  oh by the way, ya know how obama talks about reaching across party lines and wants to work with everyone to have unity?  well his new chief of staff said "all republicans can go F... themselves!"  how uniting is that.  so before you start lying, understand what you are saying. 


yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.
He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 
1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac (by the way he got rich while he was there; surprise!), a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 
2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.
3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  (he did this in chicago and that is one of the reasons they are having financial problems) way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 
4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  he also said republicans can go F... themselves!  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 
5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  sensorship!  what great guy!
6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.
7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 
so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  is anyone getting the picture now or do i need to take art lessons to draw you some pictures.  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington. 

would you like me to go on and continue the list of why obama is corrupt and will ruin this country or do you now get the picture?

Dan  -- are you kidding me?  obama tried to instill fear into everyone but you either just didn't pay attention or care to acknowledge it.  a few weeks ago he was in FL giving a stump speech.  there were a lot of older people there.  (i saw this on TV.)  he told them that McCain wanted to mess with their social security and privatize it.  well that is a bold face lie.  he wanted to keep the older folks' social security the way it is and let younger folks have more choices in safe investments to give them a chance for better returns.  however, the younger folks would have a choice of whether to do this or not.  so obama tried to instill fear into the older folks and a lot of them believed him because they don't know any better.  boy, what a nice guy this obama is.  his elderly aunt is living in Boston, MA in government housing on welfare.  she is walking with a walker and is here illegally but i can't blame her because she may not understand.  how is this hope when obama is living in a $1 million mansion and the aunt he spoke so highly of in his book is living in proverty (he didn't deny he knew about this and only denied knowing she was here illegally--he is a lawyer and she is elderly, duh).  now keep in mind the government (taxpayers) are keeping her up.  his uncle still lives in africa making $24/yr and obama visited him 2 years ago.  he is not helping them and his rhetoric says to help your neighbors and brothers and sisters and give to others!  he is a total jerk!  of course, you will ignore that he only give 3 to 5% of his large multi-million dollar salary to charity.  you don't want to discuss this?  how about the corrupt chief of staff he just hired (see my comments below)?  how do you call this hope?  oh by the way, ya know how obama talks about reaching across party lines and wants to work with everyone to have unity?  well his new chief of staff said "all republicans can go F... themselves!"  how uniting is that.  so before you start lying, understand what you are saying. 


yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.
He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 
1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac (by the way he got rich while he was there; surprise!), a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 
2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.
3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  (he did this in chicago and that is one of the reasons they are having financial problems) way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 
4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  he also said republicans can go F... themselves!  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 
5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  sensorship!  what great guy!
6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.
7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 
so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  is anyone getting the picture now or do i need to take art lessons to draw you some pictures.  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington. 

would you like me to go on and continue the list of why obama is corrupt and will ruin this country or do you now get the picture?

what a fantastic country we live. A country that finally stands up and chooses hope over fear. Thats what John mccain was trying to put into the minds of voters. fear, hatred, and intolerance.
One of the many reasons I am glad that Obama has won is to think about all the wacko groups that exist in the country like "focus on the family" and all those ridiculous family advocacy groups and to think about how angry and sad they must be that america is going to have a president that will:
1. Give women the right to choose to have an abortion.
2. create equal rights for all people regardless of sexual orientation
3. finally address global warming as a serious issue facing our country
Wow what a great day to live in this country.

I would urge all of us who read this to consider our values. Do we live conservative values? Do we currently have a career that allows us the opportunity either daily, or in our spare time to spread the message? If we do, we must start with the youth. Oh yea the parents are important as well because kids learn from them but something I have learned having 3 children of my own is, kids learn almost as much about their values in places like school, church, and after school care. Are you a homedaycare, a teacher, or a Sunday School Teacher? Do you come into contact with children? Pass on our conservative values at every opportunity. Also, I have pledged to run for office in the next election and I urge any other conservative who can withstand the beating attacks your Democrat opponents will levy to do the same. Who will stand with me in their home state and fight against the liberals? Who will help me build a nationwide Conservative movement? Please join me and sign this petition:
http://gopetition.com/online/23118.html

I don't listen much to talk radio because of the shrill name calling ignorant double standard dogma that seems to dominate the tone whether it is coming from the mouth of Rush Limbaugh or Randi Rhodes.  It is not good for the conservative movement that "intellectual" has become a dirty word. We certainly could use a civil and intellectually honest public forum such as Firing Line relating principles of conservatism to the huge problems facing us today.


There are many conservatives popular with the base who were qualified to share McCain's ticket. Sarah Palin remained the darling of the right even as it became apparent to 60% of all voters that she was not qualified.  O Reilly's reaction to being told by a Fox reporter that Palin thought Africa was a country ....... illustrates my point about about conservative media hosts too often being apologists for republican political screwups. 


BTW, its true that more conservatives opposed the bailout. But so did Ralph Nader. Two of our three senators and congressman who I urged to oppose the bailout did so. The one that voted for it was the only republican among them.

I'm glad to see a rational post about the Obama win.

On the not-so-rational side, I've posted about the Obama-isn't-American rumor. I think it's growing into a conspiracy theory.

Barack Obama wasn't, to put it mildly, my first choice: but he did have charisma, money, and world-class oratorical skills going for him. When he got off-script, it was another matter.

All in all, the next four-to-eight years should be at least as interesting for America as the Jesse Ventura governorship was for Minnesota.

I'll be following what you have to say about President-Elect Obama.

Harrysmom said "We do need to keep those reddies though, for a few reasons... who else would be there to remind us to avoid relations with our first cousins; view education as a means of getting ahead; never to be overly self satisfied, important, or centered; to cherish our own viewpoint, but consider those of others; to recognize that caring for others is the same as caring for our own?"

Then Harrysmom said "Ideologies aside, we have more in common than not.   I'm so happy to move beyond all of this partisanship"

Just wondering which parts we have in common?? Is it the relations with our first cousins?? Or the anybody not voting for Obama is a retard part??  Oh, wait, it must be the cherishing your own viewpoint, but considering those of others. NO.... can't be that, there has been no consideration from the left, only mud slinging.
 
This kind of talk is your view of "a new direction for Washington" and moving away from "the old divisive politics of the past"??? Tell you what, keep your olive branch, keep your viewpoint, keep YOUR President. I will keep right on being, as you have so eloquently labeled me, one of those idiots who "lack the critical thought processes to make an informed decision".

Toodles.

Harry's Mom: "but gloating would be uncharacteristic and, frankly, unproductive"


Well, that's good. I've certainly seen a lot of gloating! But, those folks think the 2000 election was stolen, maybe 2004, they finally win one--I certainly understand a little endzone dance. 


But I'm getting tired of both the liberals I see out there going "f*** you conservatives. go kill yourselves" and the conservatives saying "it's the end of the country. doom! and Obama is the antichrist". Or some version thereof.


I suppose I should be glad that the Internet is so egalitarian and opens up the dialog to everybody. But some days, I'm not. 


I'm not sure I've experienced such an unpleasant mixture of graceless, hubristic and nasty winners on the other side (Harrys Mom being an obvious exception) and whiny, doom-and-gloom, hyperbolic losers on ours.


Hopefully, this too shall pass. 


BTW, Wayne Ferrel: Which talk radio cheerleaders supported toe bailout bill? Um, you don't know? Because you're a troll?


Or you just don't listen? Which conservatives defended Campaign Finance Reform? Or the prescription drug bill? Or the bailout bill? And what conservative refers to anything Bush has done as "an assault on the Bill of Rights"? You're either too busy patting yourself on the back and admiring yourself in the mirror--or adjusting your troll costume. Either way, you've got your facts wrong. 


And, folks, you need to read some history books.

Conservatives who felt they must defend every move by the Bush administration have not been helpful in advancing conservative ideology. Bush's invasion of Iraq, his assaults on the Bill of Rights and bailouts of the insurance and banking industries were anything but conservative. True conservatives should be expressing outrage at the Bush people and their talk radio cheerleaders for putting the Republican Party and the conservative movement in the disastrous position they are in today. They have damaged the credibility of Republican conservatism more seriously than Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy could ever have dreamed.

Kevin, gauntlets have been thrown, and I do believe it's time for olive branches to be offered.  We had a wonderful success for the Democratic party yesterday, but gloating would be uncharacteristic and, frankly, unproductive.  Ideologies aside, we have more in common than not.   I'm so happy to move beyond all of this partisanship.


Good night.

Kevin:  your comment--

"As for peace with you liberals--um, you're wrong. About almost everything. Why should I want to compromise with "wrong"?"

thank you!  i liked this comment.  i won't compromise my morales, values, and everything that my ancestors taught me.  it "ain't gonna happen."  this country was founded on hardwork and a lot of great basic principles that true conservatives believe in.  there seems to be few of us left because people have become self-centered and selfish.  it has become a "me, be acceptable of anything" kind of country.  it is just sad!

I meant "ideological disagreements are just par for the course". Oops.

BTW, harrysmom, I may have missed a post are two, but I don't think you're the liberal calling people idiots, comparing them to Nazis, claiming there are no creative conservatives, that conservatives have no soul, etc. 


Technically, you wouldn't need to be the person reaching out trying to make nice. Ideological agreements are just par for the course.

"'global warming is a myth', kevin your an idiot. You republicans are married to that position, dont come around in ten years saying your the pro environment party. As for peace with you conservatives, i am really not interested"


Amber, thanks for your input. You are a fine example of both the character and temperament of liberals, and you should be proud.


As for peace with you liberals--um, you're wrong. About almost everything. Why should I want to compromise with "wrong"?

More republican failure--

i'm would not doubt what anyone is saying at this moment.  i can't believe the democratic lies.  they have been conducting an attack on logic, rational thought, and truthful information also.  you could say they are successful from the fact they won the election.  however, they are not successful if you look at what democats are going to do for our country.  so success depends on whether coming together as a country and solving the biggest obstacles we have ever been faced with is important.  now you have a wonderful, honest group of people running the show:  pelosi, frank, reed, dodd and their puppet, obama.  wow!  of course, the new chief of staff being part of obama's leadership team is upholding obama's unity theme, especially since he said republicans can go F... themselves.  what a leader!  wow!  i'm honored to have such great people leading this country.  what a historical moment this is!  ha!

This blog is an exception, but I think the repeated claims by McCain supporters of an impending "comeback," then their utter surprise that they lost, are signs of the key problem with the party: an utter disregard for factual information. From Palin's attacks on scientific research to the McCain supporters who claim Obama is muslim, the party has been conducting a (now unsuccessful) attack on logic, rational thought, and truthful information.

yea!  i know you are so proud.  every liberal should be very proud of themselves about now.  it is great to see the fruits of your labor coming to fruition.  the first great thing obama has done to help unite this country, as he promised, was amazing.  that bipartisian, uniting this country theme is coming through loud and clear.

He has appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.  now in speaking to several folks i work with in Chicago, I got the scoop on this guy.  i also did some research of my own.   here goes: 

1.  he was on the board of Freddie Mac, a wonderful establishment.  even IF he knew nothing, appearances at this point in time are everything. 

2.  he is part of the most corrupt political machine in the U.S.--Chicago.  way to go obama--take care of your corrupt liberal friends.

3.  he spends taxpayers dollars without thought to budgets or how much taxes are raised as a result.  way to go, dude.  you are a great guy! 

4.  he is an extreme left-wing liberal!  wow!  who would have "thunk" it?  in obama's speeches he said he would "reach across the isle to the other party."  republicans will just be so encouraged to work with a radical.  don't cha just hear the violins playing as you say this?  i do! 

5.  he will also ensure any press that reports any news this liberal party does not like will be squashed, and i think they will attempt to put them out of business.  wow!  sensorship!  what great guy!

6.  he does not reach across party lines and is very partisan.  what a teamplayer!  don't cha just love him already?  i do.

7.   i saved the best for last because i understand how much obama is concerned about bringing us all together.  emanuel is friends with pelosi!  i'm so impressed!  so we all now understand obama is on the extreme left and is hiding this.  way to go!  republicans understand this but liberals will not! 

so forget throwing his aunt to the dogs and letting her live off the government in low income housing while obama lives in a $1MM mansion.  look how honest he has been with the american people with his rhetoric!  is anyone getting the picture now or do i need to take art lessons to draw you some pictures.  liberals will ignore this because they are even lying to themselves!  this is a terrible time for those who work for a living and need to be employed and are depending on obama to help the economy and clean up washington.

Hahaha, global warming is real? No way to prove it. I can also speculate that your IQ is borderline retarded, but the difference is tests can prove that.

"global warming is a myth", kevin your an idiot. You republicans are married to that position, dont come around in ten years saying your the pro environment party. As for peace with you conservatives, i am really not interested

David Walters- yes we DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I currently have no voice left, have gained 10 lbs due to eating McDonalds so I wouldn't have to cook dinner and could use the hour to go phone bank each night, do not feel like watching anything but the news is a sign of complacency, and have just taken my local campaign field officer and myself for a pedicure to heal wounded feet.  
This was a long, hard, fight.  But Yes We Did!


I do want all of the McCain supporters on here to know that, in all honesty, I do want to heal the insults and the hurt that have been exchanged on here.  Things get heated up in the moment, but you are all my fellow Americans and I hope that we can come to a common ground in the future.  :)


Peace out.

Yeah, David, you are still here. But I like you a lot better than Toe. Not sure why, but I do.

The rest is for Reggie:

BTW, Anthropogenic Global Warming is a Myth. Medieval scientists believed the earth was flat. It was, in fact, the consensus. Look up Michael Crichton (RIP, and godspeed to him) on consensus to see exactly what it has to do with science. Not a damn thing.

Global Warming has more in common with eugenics than economics. All the celebutards and politicans were down with eugenics, during the day.

And these are the same scientists who guaranteed us an ice age was on the way during the 70s, because of aerosol cans. They are the same scientists who told us the torching of oil wells after the Gulf War would produce an almost "nuclear winter". These are the same scientists and statisticians that predicted overpopulation would lead to world wide famines, plagues and cannibalism and, essentially, end the world by the 1980s. You're talking about the scientists who have to tow the party line to get funding, to get jobs, to get tenure, and get publishes? Those scientists?

Mmmm. Kool-Aid.

But why do you care what I think? Obama is all on that cap-n-trade thing. McCain had his own cap-n-trade. "Scientific" consensus has led us to the point where, no matter who got elected, policy on global warming was going forward as if anthropogenic global warming is an established scientific fact (yes, I know, it is, there's "consensus", I've got that, thanks). You're going to get the sort of policies you should generally want--cap-n-trade, green house gas reductions, higher CAFE standards, and so on. Maybe we'll sign Kyoto.

My skepticism regarding global warming has no practical relevance whatsoever. But isn't it enough for your side to win? Or do "deniers" need to be re-educated, too?

Excuse the hyperbole. I've been scouring the lefty- and righty- blogs much of the day, and the hyperbole rubs off.

I've recently blogged on my opinions regarding global warming.

From there, there are several links to my other blog where I post much longer rants regarding my opinions of global warming from last year. It's not a casual dismissal. With all due props to your science teacher mom.

Just so ya know.

We can add


Rahm Emanuel, Cheif of Staff


To "The Obama Chronicles"

Mom, Sara Palin voice is what we need, bluestardust names and ... text like yours, to say things like ... this...
Last night, dreaming on friendly lands now thinking about not only what Reagan would do, what would freeMedia say on drivebymedia, but what Gandalf would do, Arch. Michael strategies&tactics on their enemy, that "kind of stuff", or more... I realized...
   Having weschester voting Mcain 70%, BHO30%, watching the mystic beautifull silver halfmoon, under a conservative voting lands, I celebrated for those who's lands have not conservative liders on federal level at list.  like S. Bush said on Panama once...
now we say...
and now Panama is free...,
I j the cyberwizard (in the name of "the few" half didn't vote BHO) say anti-castrist So. florida PASSED THE TEST, you are wellcome here my friends, but watch for the all the way agents&spies Cubans have warned many countries, like Venezuela, etc.
    Listen Sara Palin kind of liders, they are our liders, people elected them too, and even libland machineryBILL$ D I D  N O T CHANGED THAT, and TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE, AND M O R E.
   As conservative, I believe the celestial world helps any time they can (with limitations, like even President BHO, Bush, Clinton, Ted, carter, U$$r, anything is voulnerable to limitations and... miracles, when God is involved).
    Last night I sleept like a cyberwizard's imagination on creation, evolution and... the celestial world, don't live God with this lib problems, please, don't become an ACORN-kind of person, just DON'T FORGET WHAT WE ARE, AND WHAT WHE TAKE WITH US ON OUR SOULS BACK TO EDEN, WHERE WE BELONG.
    WE DON'T RUN FROM HISTORY, I SWEAR ON GOD MCAIN, PALIN ARE RIGHT ON THIS TOO.
    This male wizard believer, angels interested, activate our imagination with words like 2BlueStarMom specially under wars, military... or... intellectually, and the battle for the ideas has a garrison on anti-castrist territory... again 
we can fight intellectually under lib drivebymedia and other "helpers", we are not alone on this...
(pssst): libland is no longer "invisible"...
Schnitt, you still re-charging my genes pal, like the rest of the freedomedia, to keep teaching the young "how to fight the 3rd millenia assymetric and fissical wars, on silence even, like "all most telepatlicly kind of intentions"

Neto (47) spoke:
"Conservative means being conservative about the environment, spending, church and state, etc... It does not mean be a dick"

-Well put....the republicans have to figure out which way to go......the demographics are against the ways that have won elections in the past....

Kevin(49).....but davidwwalters is still here!

Harrysmom.....Yes WE DID!

PhillR- #63- that was great!  We do need to keep those reddies though, for a few reasons... who else would be there to remind us to avoid relations with our first cousins; view education as a means of getting ahead; never to be overly self satisfied, important, or centered; to cherish our own viewpoint, but consider those of others; to recognize that caring for others is the same as caring for our own?


We need the contrast to remind us of all of these things.  Besides, that bridge we would have to build to the west coast would be a major bitch.  :)

High  five, Neto!!!

The Republicans need to change a few things, like persue other types of voters, African Americans would come back to the party who stood up from them centuries ago, but they do not see you as wanting them in the group, y0ur not addressign what concerns them the party is not connecting with them. The way Sarah Palin came out speaking to hocky moms and middle american turned a lot people off. American consist of many people hocky moms, basketball moms etc... The Repulicans need to learn from the Democrats how to run a successful campaign.  Obama went after everyone and that is why he won last night, and I knew he was going to win months ago, why, because one simple reason, people did not want Republicans in office, John McCain represented George Bush.  Obama  brought people together he crossed racial lines ( winning Iowa a state with a 2% black population). You racist, give it up, a  new day has come! Minorites want the same things just like everyone else.  Complain when Obama start making policies. For now, be greatful that you still living in a democaratic society.

P.S Yes, your president will be Black.

I, Namako_H3, a natural-born American citizen, do solemnly swear that I will support, defend, respect and bear true faith and allegiance to President (elect) Barry (Barack) Hussein Obama to the exact same level and intensity that the Democrat Party afforded to President George W. Bush for the past 8 years; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the obligations of American citizens afforded the Constitutional right to free speech; So help me God.
Finally! Whew!!! It's over! Now it’s time for some long-awaited, and oh-so-sweet, PAYBACK!!
BTW, does anyone know where you can buy those bumper stickers that I’ve been seeing for the past several years? The ones that proudly proclaim “He’s not MY President, I didn’t vote for him.” I’d really like to pick up several, and get them ready to be pt on my cars on the eve of 1/20/2009.

thank you fellow democrats,,across this great country.

i feel like i just moved up in the food chain!!!

Jonah was swallowed by a whale.... Sheesh, everybody knows that.

"Lucky for me I am from Texas, we can just secede."

Please please do! Seriously! Could you also take AL, AK, MS, GA, KY, SC, and OK with you?

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian
Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms, and the highest concentration of pregnant unwed teenagers.

With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of the banking industry, 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, most of the right-wing fringe types that believe the earth is only 6000 years old, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy Redies believe you are people with higher morals then we Bluies.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

The dawn of a new era. That is certain. My company and many of the others I know started today hoping we could find ways to cut back without laying off people, but it doesn't look good. I hope BHO brings you libs all that you thought he would. It will be a Merry Christmas indeed, except for those now out of a job....

Lucky for me I am from Texas, we can just secede.

Well, UC.  I'm back for my slice of humble pie.   I certainly am not a coward, and I won't even try to make excuses and point fingers.  Obviously, my assessment was wrong. 

So, it truly IS the dawn of a new era.  And for many of us (unlike yourself, who has ALREADY been active) it's time to get busy in earnest. 

This will be the last election to which I wake up late.  I suspect there will be millions in this category.  No longer will I sit on the sidelines and watch while my freedoms get taken away one by one. 

The hour is late...but it's not TOO late.  While there is life, there is always hope.  I don't plan to waste any of it.

:)


UC, your candidate lost because he did run a divisive campaign, and Americans were sick of it.  You give Obama credit for running a flawless campaign.  He asked us to dig deeper into ourselves and love our country.  As president, he will do the same.  


You may want to critique his "associations" and "otherness," but he is YOUR president.  I would suggest that a patriotic use of your clearly sharp intellect would be to critique his policies and help to keep all of us on our best game.  Let it go now.

Buena pena, compra de SR. UC- su uno mismo un diccionario!  Usted aparece horriblemente uneduacted. Esto nunca ayudará a su causa. riddance. 
adiós pequeño hombre.

Good morning UC

Well, it has begun.

Now, we can only sit back and watch.

Will we have an election in 4 years or a dictatorship?

Time will tell. 

I had a hard time trusting our government before this. 

I can never trust them again or the media.

I'm an Obama supporter, albeit sometimes reluctantly, he threw some curve balls that I wasn't able to catch. That said, the man is incredibly inspiring, has shown a remarkable ability to gather people around him who possess amazing organization and policy knowledge, and a heart for this country, all trends I'm sure he will continue in the White House.

On another note, I thought McCain's concession speech was moving and real. I actually believe that he means it when he talks of working with the new president Obama. Both of these men love this country, not that I ever doubted either of them in that capacity, they just have very different ideas of how to get our country back on the right track.

Liem, your comments are ridiculous, get your head out of your a@#. A true patriot (McCain) figures out a way to work with people they disagree with.

Kevin, I always find it interesting when conservatives dismiss global warming. When I'm sick I go to a doctor. When my teeth hurt, I talk to a dentist. I look to economists for financial advise. Why do conservatives choose not to believe climatologists (you know, people who specialize in the science of climatology) and scientists who have culled years of research and debate. Not that there aren't still debates to be had, but really? Kool-Aid? Even my right wing evangelical mother is an environmentalist and believes in global warming...oh wait...she's a science teacher and knows what she's talking about.

Well, now that he is my President whether I wanted it or not. I do hope he does a good job. I'd have to be a seriously un-patriotic jerk to wish him to fail. I want my country to be the best damn country it can be.

Let's hope really does reach across party lines and get some real work done.

Great day for everyone, stop sounding so bitter. He won, fair and square, and I hope the Democrats sweep Congress, so Obama can get on with the urgent work of digging America out of the hole these backward conservatives have dug it into.

it's a great day, not just for America but for the entire world.

Though I'm living in Canada and didn't have a vote, I'm breathing a heavy sigh of relief that the failed policies of the past 8 years won't be repeated by a McCain presidency.

will Obama be the change that America needs? I don't know, but at this point any change would be a change for the better.

Wow these comments. Many idiots do not realize that we were founded on Slavery! The Spaniards started it in the South and the rest is history. We are the first civilization to elect a Black Man to office. From slavery to the most important man in the world. All Biggots must die!

This is History for not just African Americans, Mexicans, Italians, Irish, whatever, we are fucking Americans. So f**k you dumb asses. F'ing shit up for the rest of us.

Is toe out? Thank goodness.


"If Obama wins, it will be because the American people have said: Enough!.
I know that many of you here see Obama's views as far left- generally because you are on the other extreme of this and anything short of your position is leftist, including moderate."


Because she was full of crap. And wanted to speechify and call names, rather than have a discussion. Obama is a frickin' leftist. Without. A. Doubt. Rush Limbaugh is a far-right conservative. Either you can call things what they are, or you can't. 


Plus toe needed to break up her run-on sentences.


From Charles Yo: "funny, dan, but you lose again. your people ran on how the media and the democrats were run by the "liberal elite", which, as usual, was the typical Republican lie. Guess what? We're going to take the country back from the edge. this is just the first step."


I go back to my comment of the lack of class in being sore winners. It's graceless, and stupid. Have you never seen the movies where the bad guy is just about to put and end to the good guy forever, and he stops to gloat? Then the good guy gets another shot in? You've never seen that movie?


And: "this is just the first step". That's a great way to start celebrating your victory. With threats. And, let me tell you something: this is not a permanent state of affairs. The 40 year run of Dems controlling congress was impressive. It's unlikely to happen again. The Dem will lose the Whitehouse in 2016, if not 2012. For a host of reasons. History points to the likelihood. 


And Barack is going to have a lot of weak spots. He's a Messianic figure. Human beings cannot deliver on Messianic expectations. The kind of motivation that came out to put him into office may not be there in 2012. The kind of stuff I'm reading out there--that this is the most significant event in human history--cannot be kept up for four years. It just can't. The power of incumbency (there's nothing like the bully pulpit) might secure him 2012, but by 2016 people are going to be doing what? Hankering for a change.


It always happens. We had 12 years of Reagan/Bush. Then 8 years of Clinton. Then 8 years of W. Bush. Before the 12 years of Reagan/Bush, it was 4 years of Jimmy Carter, preceded by 8 years of Nixon/Ford, preceded by 8 years of Kennedy/Johnson, preceded by 8 years of Eisenhower . . . do you see a pattern here?


In the last 50 years, only one party has held onto the Whitehouse for more than 8 years at a time, and that's the Republicans. Only one party has also served only 4 years before getting ousted, and that would be the Democrats.


Barack Obama won the night. It's a great victory for the Democrats. But, as King Solomon knew, "this too shall pass".


And so it will be again for the Republicans. They will win again, and they will lose again. It happens.


But the amount of hubris I'm getting from folks on the left is mind-boggling. I sure as heck didn't act like that when Bush took it home in 2000, or the Republicans swept in 1994, or Bush won in 2004. I don't know many conservatives that did. "It's historic! The world has changed! This is only the beginning! Soon, you'll be rounded up in camps. Wait, did we say that out loud?"


Ah, well. Here's to working hard, living a good life, and showing up to vote a straight Republican party ticket in 2010. Because that's what I do.

Fox news is scared. What are they going to do, I see dreary rating and economic days ahead for Fox and Rup. It is funny to still hear Republicans speaking their BS, NO ONE IS LISTENING. It is not about being a memeber hard ass of a party.

The music is over. Jesse Jackson needs to chill. Republicans, please regroup, do not treat Mexicans like crap cause some of us are actually Americans that have been here before most Pilgrams. Anyway, it is over for Repubs as we know it. Conservative means being conservative about the environment, spending, church and state, etc... It does not mean be a dick. But I hope we can come together people. Let's get America back in line to what the basic ideas of America really mean. Anyone remember the constitution, or the bill of rights?

yeah toe..goodbye and good riddens..

Well regardless of where voter demographics may lie, I will enjoy watching the US fall into a dark time, all from the safety of another country.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

HAHAHA.

HA.

SUCK IT.

Dan:  ignore these stupid comments.  it is sad that few democrats understand simple economics these days!  i guess they are the uneducated, stupid people they are speaking of.  by the way, they have learned from obama to speak garbage,and since we are of higher intelligence, it is easy for us to spot BS when we hear it.  of course, we are hearing a lot of it here.  the only people who bought the crap were the stupid people who ignored a laundry list of proven lies.  it is sad.  remember who taught obama his rhetoric.  he learned from those great philosophers in chicago--the most corrupt politicians in the US.  but hey, now they have a team of corruption--pelosi, reed, frank, dodd and obama!  wow!  togetherness!

funny, dan, but you lose again. your people ran on how the media and the democrats were run by the "liberal elite", which, as usual, was the typical Republican lie. Guess what? We're going to take the country back from the edge. this is just the first step.

However it is the educated wealthy states that voted Obama.

Despite the recent economic crisis, we on the coast (NYC especially) drive this economy. We are the ones who will be taxed, and we say okay. Why? Because taxes are preferable to being led by superstitious illiterate morons that don't know the difference between tactics and strategy. We are smarter then you and will still be rich after a tax hike (which was inevitable with either candidate thanks to the Bush's fiscal irresponsibility).

Maybe when Republicans abandon superstitious social conservatives and return to a platform that is actually fiscally responsible while refraining from oppressing the social liberties of Americans they will return to power.

At least now I won't need to lie when abroad and claim to be a Canadian. Middle America's simplicity and superstition is an embarrassment. Taxes be damned, good riddance.

PhillR, even the uneducated and the poor know when enough is enough. "Conservatives" (what exactly have you folks conserved over the last 8 years?), your day is done. God willing, it will be a long, long time before your next. It's a great night for true Americans.

PhillR--
think again!  now you have a growing welfare base, more of a corrupt government than ever before along with a higher number of high school dropouts!  oh and in the not so distant future you will have a very high unemployment rate.  thank goodness i'm not a democrat but am pretty well off, highly educated and earn more than people in the fields you describe!  your definition of rich is pathetic!  too bad you didn't understand basic economics in college or you would understand the problems you guys have created.  this economy will get a lot worse unfortunately and i don't like to see people suffer. 

you are stupid but funny!

PhillR--
think again!  now you have a growing welfare base, more of a corrupt government than ever before along with a higher number of high school dropouts!  oh and in the not so distant future you will have a very high unemployment rate.  thank goodness i'm not a democrat but am pretty well off, highly educated and earn more than people in the fields you describe!  your definition of rich is pathetic!  too bad you didn't understand basic economics in college or you would understand the problems you guys have created.  this economy will get a lot worse unfortunately and i don't like to see people suffer. 

you are stupid but funny!

For those of you who believe in a Santa Claus-like God and Jesus (I'm looking at you DS) and pray his will be done, what do you think now? Could it be YOU who are out of step with Jesus? And the rest of you, could it be you are out of step with the rest of the country?

Actually PhillR, you have the poor and uneducated on your side.  These are the people to whom which Obama's tax-cuts cater to.

Raymond:  your comment:  I have never been more proud to be an American than I am at this moment. America has spoken! The days of devisive politics, lies and rhetoric you see on Fox News and on blogs and web sites like this are over.
It's time to move on as a nation, together!

if you believe the above, you haven't been paying attention to your own party.  the divisiveness is just beginning thanks to pelosi, reed, dodd, and now obama.  they have made sure of that.  it is unfortunate!  thanks to obama we are now in a class warfare.  of course, his lies have been so numerous, i have lost count but if you would like, i would be glad to name a few.  thanks to obama us working folks will be handing our few pennies to those who don't work or choose not to get skills to find better work.  that is not America.  those of us who actually understand America know that the ideals you guys are trying to get everyone to believe are not what this country was founded on!

You loose. Your leaders, your ideas, your philosophy have all been rejected. Look at the electoral map. The centers of science, industry and education have won. You have on your side the uneducated and the poor.

We are educated. We are rich. Now we are in charge. Piss off.

Raymond, you mean move on as a nation of low income high school drop-outs, since there is no incentive for any one to finish school that is exactly what this country is going to turn into.

Dan--your comment-"When I used to think about what being American meant to me, I used to think that it meant having the ability to better my country through self-improvement.  Now I know that being an American is all about knowing that others, who have worked harder and longer, will have my back financially.  No longer will the saying “Oprah rich” mean any thing, from now on being “McDonald's assistant manger rich” is what I will be striving for."

unfortunately you are getting the picture at an early age.  so many people are of the opinion that they are entitled.  thank goodness you are not one of them.  it is a sad time in america right now and those who are smart understand this.  it is not a time for celebration as we are going to be in a socialist society headed toward communism (see my comments on who obama is considering).   no matter what we say or do liberals will never get it and it is pointless to try to explain it.  we just need to clean up our party and take back the government from the corrupt folks who are in there now--pelosi, reed, frank and now obama.  obama gained his experience from the most corrupt political system in the US so he has been trained to cause tremendous damage to our country.  it is unfortunate and i think a lot of people will consider moving just to survive!

I have never been more proud to be an American than I am at this moment. America has spoken! The days of devisive politics, lies and rhetoric you see on Fox News and on blogs and web sites like this are over.
It's time to move on as a nation, together!

I sure hope all of the Democrats (Read:Marxist) ILLEGAL voting immigrants are satisfied. ACORN and the general Media (Read: Democratic Party Free Campaign Advertisers) are happy.

My retirement is going away. Prices for everything is going up, BHO said so.

Looking for one way flights out of this socialism.

mission accomplished:  bigger government and welfare system along with no job creation and bigger job losses.  so let's raise taxes on those who may have a chance at employing us and investing in our economy during these hard times!  smart idea--not!  of course, obama could go back on his word of giving handouts like he said the other day.  even though the economy has been the same for a while now, he reserves the right to change everything he has promised (for the sake of the economy, of course)!  ha!  what a joke!  dumb people believe him i guess!  sad times for the US and its people!

Now that the polls have been tallied, and a new leader has been elected; I have a major decision to make.  I can leave the country, or I can drop out of college.  By dropping out of college I can join the many Obama supporters in knowing that all my expenses will be paid for.  I will also know that the kids who were sitting next to me in classes will be paying for my mortgage, health care, and welfare.

When I used to think about what being American meant to me, I used to think that it meant having the ability to better my country through self-improvement.  Now I know that being an American is all about knowing that others, who have worked harder and longer, will have my back financially.  No longer will the saying “Oprah rich” mean any thing, from now on being “McDonald's assistant manger rich” is what I will be striving for.

Absurd: This election is all about race.

This election was all about slapping the "base" that gave us W and the Cheney-Rovobotic nightmare that culminated in a very unpopular war and an economy that overheated itself, stoked by some combination of inept spending policy along with the failed attempts at trickling down tax breaks on a broken economy. Those getting the breaks don't create enough opportunity and "spread the wealth" to enamor themselves to "Joe six-pack."

Real conservatism lives frugally and not on our children's credit.
Real conservatism abhors the nanny state in all its guises. Whether it's entitlements or legislating morality, less government is more.
Real conservatism champions wisdom, strength, and leadership, but never forgets the virtues of grace, charity, and mercy.

I've seen way too much of this trying to wrap the tent around social and fiscal conservatives. If we could have not looked like desperate by "base sating" with Palin. What states did she help move red this year??

She is emblematic of a serious problem that DOES need to be dealt with before 2010 and way before 2012. If you think she was the best thing going for McCain, imagine if she would have been on the top of the ticket. Really? REALLY??

Obama villified one person this whole campaign: Bush. We ran around villifying everyone. McCain didn't go far enough? Honestly, Palin and Bachman sounded like McCarthy to way too many. The Obama policies may not be right, but on what sort of playground did we think that would work?

I'm getting tired of holding my nose and dropping the ballot.

well i knew it would happen and was expecting it.  the typical person voting for obama was on the news today.  she said that this day had finally come and now that she had voted for obama, he will pay her mortgage, bills, and insurance.  she said that she did him a favor and he owed her.  i could not make that up if i tried because it is so unbelievable that she would even call herself an american.  so if you give children candy they will come.  you give low income/no income people a promise of a check blah, blah, blah..........  i won't consider it revenge when this country falls apart because the free america that we know will be destroyed.  from what i understand obama is already getting his staff together.  one person in particular he is speaking with happens to be a known corrupt politician from chicago that will ensure we will not get any news that may be negative from the whitehouse.  folks that is called sensorship/communism.  but we knew this would happen in some form.  i hope he chooses not to go this route but it sounds like he is considering offering this guy a key position.  so i am not sad because McCain didn't win.  i am sad that this country is headed in a place that we will never be able to recover from.  my familiy has plenty of cash on hand (401ks are not going to be worth anything for years to come) to last for years so the tremendous amount of job losses will not affect us like it will regular folks.  the higher food and clothing prices that we will have will not be an issue to us but it will for a lot of people.  that is what i'm concerned about.  it has been interesting to watch the news in the last few days.  there is a video of obama's promising to bankrupt a new coal mine with fees and to ensure our powerbills skyrocket.  there is his elderly aunt who he wrote about in his book living off of welfare in government housing who is here illegally.  obama threw her under the bus and wants the law to do its job.  he admitted to not knowing her legal status.  so he knows she is here but is not helping her financially.  i could go on but he is a crook and the facts just go over people's heads.  but hey, we have change.  ha!  those who do not believe, are just stupid and don't understand basic government or economics.  those folks are the ones that got us into this mess and are still dumb enough not to know it!  Congratulations!

Mission Accomplished!  Fare thee well.

Hey conservatives out there, the best revenge will be all the people that will be upset when Barack's empty promises don't come true. Plus, this election had nothing to do with policies, it was all about race. Bunch of BS if you ask me.

Perhaps now Republican politicians will finally let go of the bizarre notion that conservatism can somehow include a large, nanny-type government (AKA, neo-conservatism). It was a remarkably bizarre idea from the beginning. Perhaps now they will stop kissing up to the New York Times and Katie Couric and start kissing up to those who gave them their jobs.
 
Nevertheless, we suspect that it will take many of them a while to figure this out. Indeed, it may require the emergence of an entirely new generation of Republicans to recreate genuine conservatism. Sara Palin, Bobby Jindal, Adam Putnam and others, if they are not handed that torch, will have to seize it.
insalacos.com

In the current environment, are those votes you mention supposed to be a bad thing?

Jason says:
"Are any great leaders remembered as centrists?"

Yeah,
-Eisenhower

McCain's problem is that he is a maverick against his own party.  Can't win without enthusiastic support from your base.  Can't win on "I'm not as bad as the other guy."  Rick Lazio tried that when running against Hill Clinton for senate.  Remember how that worked out?  Are any great leaders remembered as centrists?
http://rightklik.blogspot.com/

I s'pose conservatives will feel like i did in 1980...

I am insulted Leiem by that comment. Blacks will not get reparations even though I greatly feel my fathers generation deserve something! If you hate blacks and America go live somewhere else. This country was built off the backs of blacks who did the dirty work and help built this  great country. These were people who wanted to be treated equally and offer the same as others.

Obama will win the election because the Republicans failuire to put a compaign together to win the majority, apeal to everyone. The Democrats were hungry for the White House and they will be IN the White House. No hard feelings life is about learning. Oh and Leim , Barack Obama would be insulted by that comment being half white and half black.

Liem,
Your predictions "seem" to be the way our country is headed, but I think there are too many freedom loving people left in this country who will not allow it to get that far.  I think you would see a revolution before we let that happen.  There are a lot of forces within this country who will pick up arms and defend our nation if BHO or anyone/anything else tries to push those agendas.  And besides, I believe that God will intervene before anything like that occurs.  My mind tells me that they could happen, but my spirit and belief in freedom loving Americans tell me otherwise.  I think that BHO may just be a small blimp in American history, and he (and his socialistic beliefs) are destined to the ash heaps of history.  Good WILL overcome evil in the end.  It already has.  We do not fear man, or what he can do to us.  We only fear God.

Kevin:  I might be a little to optimistic but the 2006 elections were a big blow to the GOP and this election stands to be an even larger one.  I think we can agree that there are a plthoria of big goverment neocons cloging up the seats in the house and senate that we would all like to see take a hike. 

Asuming the semocrats fail to come through on all their promisises americans will be just as disenchanted with them as they currently are with the right.  This provides an opertunity for some one with traditional small gorvenment values to run and fill some of those seats.  This means new blood in the GOP, and that new blood wont be outnumbered by a bunch of neocons who differ fundemential almost as much as Pelosi Reid, and the rest of them.

Once Obama is elected, blacks will all get reparations, Muslims will invade to take away our freedoms (because they hate our freedoms), and America will be handed over to Communists. And then Obama will get re-elected.

I understand the frustration with the way McCain ran his campaign. But I'm not sure there is anything anyone could have done.  The press has always been liberal.  But no one has ever seen anything like this past year.  How do you fight that?

By the way...our prediction:  McCain takes Florida, leaving it up to Penn & Ohio.

Whether Obama wins or not, we need to make sure that ALL conservatives get out there and vote!  There are a lot of important state and local propositions that we need to support.  Our state (California) is voting on whether marriage should be between a man and a woman.  We need to say YES to Prop 8.    Don't sit at home just because you believe that Obama is a shoe-in.  God has ALWAYS majored in miracles.....you never know.  But whatever happens, be assured that He is on control.  We may be in for some tough times as a nation.  We can't keep kicking God out of our lives, or support things like abortion and same-sex marriages without God at some point saying "That is enough!"  My brothers and sisters, let us pray for those who despise Him, and beg for His mercy upon all of us.  Jesus, your will be done!

If Obama wins, it will be because the American people have said: "Enough!".
I know that many of you here see Obama's views as far left- generally because you are on the other extreme of this and anything short of your position is "leftist", including moderate.
We have reached one of those points in American history when things get upended politically because of what we have all experienced via the status quo.  If democrats had been the party in charge they would have been thrown out as well. 
At some point, the republicans will get their act together and decide just who they are.  They will find a spokesperson.  Perhaps they will even be able to expand their focus instead of the narrow base upon which they currently try to float.  At their present rate they are the party of exclusion- of ideas, of religion, of race, and of social status.  Whether or not you, as an individual,  feel this way, this is the way you,  as a party, come off.
Everyone that is cognizant of the problems we face as a nation- whether it be the economy, military efforts, or social injustices- understand that priorities are the name of the game for the next president.  Those that have chastised Obama for programs that he has championed and hopes to implement at some point should he be elected- failed to hear Obama also say that, considering the state of the economy, quite likely these - by and large,  will have to be set aside to deal with items with highest priority.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater- at the same time, you don't keep running the tub water when you are already overflowing.
Supporters of Obama are aware of this so to suggest otherwise is just foolish.
Supporters of Obama are well aware of the tremendous damage caused by the current administration and a republican congress gone wild on spending for the past 8 years.  While republicans have tried, as a last ditch effort, to say "one rule government"  would spell disaster-  they fail to note that they have had this for the past eight years- despite having a majority in the house for democrats since '06- the senate did not have this- nor did they have a democrat in the white house- so nearly anything the democrats attempted was vetoed or filibustered, hence their low ratings.
What this argument also fails to see concerning "one rule government" is that not all democrats- despite your opinions- do not think the same- if you get 100 democrats in a room, you are likely to have 75 different opinions as to what road to take to reach the same objective.
Take a breath, folks. Government does not happen in a vacuum.  You are as much a part of it as I am.
If people act irresponsibly, we let them know- no matter what party they represent.

If Obama wins or not, I say it's time to get Newt Gingrich in higher leadership with the GOP and get some cut clear initiatives on the table that will actually get us back to the Reagan-belief that America is inherently good, the government should remain small and manageable, and constructionist interpretation of the constitution becomes mainstream again.

McCain/Palin will take my state, TEXAS!

Wow.  Way to stand up for truth, justice, and the American Way.  Not. 

Why are you conceding as Election Day begins? 

The McCain/Palin ticket is going to prevail, and I hope you'll feel at least a tiny bit of shame for your lack of faith in our Nation and its citizens. 

We aren't handing our country over the wolves to be devoured.  It just ain't gonna happen...I don't care WHAT the polls say. 

I wasn't thrilled at the choices we had when it came down to the final two, but for those of us who love our country and don't want to see it cease to exist as we know it, the choice has always been clear.   The Silent Majority has been awakened from their slumber, and WILL turn out in record numbers today - joined by masses of PUMA's - disenfranchised Democrats.  The MSM won't know what hit them. 

And I, along with millions of other Americans will watch with pleasure as we pull this one out - and not by a slim margin either. 

And then the real work begins.  Because you're absolutely correct.  Complacency is death to the American way of life.  No more.

Ryan,


Interesting thought on cleaning house. But will we do it? Or, more to the point, will the Republicans nationalize election in 2010, ala the Contract With America, and stick with it?


It's long been my opinion when the Republicans said, "awright, we're done with the Contract. Now let's impeach Clinton!" the Republican downslide started.


I'm not confident that the national GOP can get their act together in 2010. They may well pick up seats by default, but I'm not sure what productive they will do with their increasing numbers.

Toe:


Nobody likes a sore winner. 


:)

I'm not sitting in my chair. I'm voting for Palin/McNugget. And I expect they will win my home state of Tennessee. 


That being said, I don't think it's McCain's honor and commitment that cost him this campaign--but the erratic nature of it, his "big tent" philosophy that ends up with a campaign populated by conservatives, moderates, and obvious RINOS that push it in a dozen different direction. His past record of quasi-liberal stances and "reaching across the aisle", which "moderates" and "liberals" say they respect or like but they do not. When the rubber meets the road, the "moderate" Republican they had so much admiration for will suddenly have "changed" and "gone bad", so they have to vote for the Democrat. How convenient.


McCain made it clear early on that he has drunk himself some Global Warming Kool-Aid. Talked about putting Al Gore in his cabinet as Global Warming Czar. He was originally against the Bush tax cuts. He has never made it clear that Obama is going to raise our taxes, all of us--by letting the Bush tax cuts expire. So that great majority of those in favor of Obama thinks Obama will cut their taxes and John McCain won't, according Rasmussen! 


These things did not help. 


That being said, Sean Malstrom (look him up) has an interesting take on why he thinks McCain will win.

Republicans Failed
Yes, republicans have failed.  Republicans failed because they abandoned their principles.  The emphasis should be on time-tested conservative principles, not on party affiliation.  The GOP has taken the conservative vote for granted, the Democrats have dismissed the conservative vote altogether.  But the responsibility rests in the hands of the voters.  Our politicians have slouched because we have allowed it.  We have to be more active, more organized.  We have to be ready for BIG fights.  Not just this election or next election.  Not just local elections or national elections.  We have to fight in every election from now on.  We have to fight for every vote in every legislature.  We can do it, but we will have to work hard and invest lots of time (and some money too).  And we can't get lazy (when we inevitably have great successes). Complacency is what got us into this mess.  This is a great and powerful nation and we enjoy incredible freedom and wealth and security.  But we will lose it all if  we stay lazy.  I think our nation is "circling the drain" politically, and that is SCARY.  But as a nation, we have overcome much greater obstacles with our traditional values and we can do it again if only we set our minds to it.


*Final Note: Obama is ahead in the polls. Sitting out the election is a vote for Obama. You don't even have to get out of your chair to help Obama win!
http://rightklik.blogspot.com/

McCain slipped off his moral "high horse"  in the campaign long ago, Mr UC.
I live in Colorado.
I personally heard the robocalls.
I received the DVD in my newspaper.
I've seen the hate speech at McCain/Palin rallies.

Let me explain something very clearly to you- there are no special parts of America where only the "real Americans" live.

There is no one religion that is better than any other. Not even yours.

Obama said he would take the high road.  He did.
McCain said he would take the high road. He did not.

It's pretty simple.  People have rejected this type of campaign.

I think Obama, and a liberal congress will keep us conservative bloggers busy for the next two years.  I have a feeling that the American people will be pissed at all the unfulfilled promises come the 2010 midterm election.

The one bright side to this whole mess is it gives the GOP a chance to clean house of some of it's idotic members like Sen Stevens and prepare some better canidates for when the power swings back our way.

If your thoughts are correct tonight will be a very sad one for America.