Liberal bloggers admit conservatives have upper hand on Twitter

August 21st, 2009 Urban Conservative

Article here, excerpt below; and this in from CNN? Need I say more? well, I would like to thank the Top Conservatives on Twitter #tcot - which has helped catupult the conservative movement on Twitter.  You can follow me if you like and join in on the fun.

Article Starts here:

WASHINGTON (CNN) - Liberal bloggers established online political activism, besting their conservative rivals during President George W. Bush’s eight years in office. But conservatives are now finding great success 140 characters at a time. Even this week, the conservative organization Club For Growth promoted their Twitter account on their $1.2 million ad campaign against health care.

Even though President Obama and national Democrats use Twitter – the social micro blog that everyone from Ashton Kutcher and Shaquille O’Neal to Chuck Grassley and Newt Gingrich often use to directly speak to followers – Republicans have embraced the technology. And with major policy issues being debated and the midterm elections right around the corner, liberal bloggers acknowledge the GOP has the upper hand when it comes to using 140 character messages known as “tweets” to influence the discussion.

“While it is obvious the progressive blogosphere is superior, we are being out-organized on Twitter,” said Gina Cooper, a blogger who helped organize Netroots Nation, an annual gathering of online liberal activists that met last week in Pittsburgh. “There is some catching up to do on the progressive side.”

Tracy Viselli, who attended Netroots Nation, agreed with Cooper and admitted that liberal bloogers are ceding this valuable territory to conservatives.

“Twitter is a news funnel,” she said. “Conservatives are very tightly knit and getting their message out very well.”

With Republicans in control of the largest bullhorn in the world – the White House – there was little impetus for conservative activists to exploit a platform to express their views.

“Conservatives have long had this inferiority complex in the online world,” said Matt Lewis, a conservative who writes for PoliticsDaily.com. “That is because Republicans have been in power when the blogosphere was invented.

Lewis added, “The ability to effectively utilize the Internet in the political realm works very well for the have-nots. It does not work so well for the establishment.”

To that end, Republicans are working overtime to establish a beachhead, online.

“Twitter is the best example of the most modern technology and how folks are organizing,” David All, a GOP new media consultant who has helped galvanize the party on Twitter, told CNN. He points to the success of hashtags – a popular way to keep track of a conversation – on Twitter. “#TCOT” (top conservatives on Twitter) has seen much more success on Twitter than “#P2 (progressives 2.0). See stats from Hashtag.org here: TCOT vs P2.

Cooper is quick to defend progressives: “Conservatives are always good at pushing that one concise message. The death panels are easy to tweet. The explanation for why there are no death panels and making that explanation takes much more explanation. You can’t do that on Twitter.”

Erick Erickson, managing editor of the popular conservative Web site RedState.com, said that conservatives’ efforts online are important but noted that people should continue to use traditional means to try and influence Congress.

“It is all well and good to be banging on your key board, but if you are not picking up the phone and yelling at your congressman, it does not do you very good,” he said.

Despite having an upper hand on Twitter, conservatives still have a ways to go when it comes to catching up to liberals in the blogoshpere. Take for instance last week’s competing online conferences in Pittsburgh. Former President Clinton and White House Senior Advisor Valerie Jarrett addressed about 1,500 activists attending the Netroots Nation conference. At the same time, approximately 700 conservatives gathered at the RightOnline.com conference to discuss the future of online activism.


Rating: 2.6/5 (16 votes cast)

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  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, Mindfugs herself. Now admits that HR3200 has never allowed Illegal immigrants to participate, and therefore Joe Wilson lied that Obama lied on that. So now the fool for the week shifts attention to The Supreme Court? Jackie lies, Jackie Spins, and is flushed down the all gone sewer. OBTW, goofball, that number IS 47 million uninsured, and no intelligent person would be so stupid to ask if they need health care! OBTW, wtf does it matter how many can afford health insurance? THEY ALL don't pay their medical bills, go bankrupt, and the rest of us pays with higher taxes, and health insurance premiums, and only Jackie fool don't get that!
  • JackieM
    You are too much of a fool to understand much. I didn't admit to anything because what you are saying is only half-truths. that is typical of a damn liberal! you are the typical obama puppet and can't seem to comprehend how everything fits together. i could go into proof of income and SS issues and other important facts but i won't because it is too elementary. i am laughing at your posts because i could have predicted what you were going to say and was just waiting for your stupidity. i started to nip all of your comments in the bud with my original posts but didn't want to bother with pond scum! i won't stoop to your level and am very understanding of everything you say and more. that is why you are consistently making me laugh at how stupid you are! i also won't say immature comments like you do about not addressing me anymore because i really don't give a damn. i'll answer the ones i feel like and ignore the others. that is my privilege!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Stiil playing the fool's role, JackieM? You've been proven wrong over and over on the fact that Joe Wilson lied with my post of the actual language in HR3200 which HAS ALWAYS exclude illegals from access. NO LOOPHOLES, PROOF OF INCOME AND SS ID MANDATORY. If your Repukes were sincere about plugging the EXISTING hole that allows illegals to be treated w/o any insurance whatsoever, they'd have done that long ago with 8 years of Bushit. But you know that.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Liar Jackie caught with rit in tinger again. How monotonous can one fool be?! Michael M Honda asks for an Amendment to HR3200 to ALLOW illegals access to Obamacare, and stupido brays like the jackass she truly is to claim that this prove Joe Wilson was right, when Wilson lied that HR3200 allows access to begin with. Dummy of the week award to JackieM.
  • JackieM
    i knew you would say that! i guess you discount the 20 other democrats/idiots who are going along with it also? i guess you are also discounting the fact that the Republicans wanted clarity in the bill to ensure there was no way the crooks/democrats would be able to get away with any loopholes. as expected, the damn democrats rejected it. so if there is nothing to this, the democrats would have had no reason not to add the admendment to the bill. if they have nothing to hide......................................................... i think even you can get the picture. however, we already know that the crooked democrats have changed a bill at the last minute without others knowing about it so ........................ keep on trusting the crooks! we see that they don't even read their own bills! i guess you are a pelosi, frank, reid, dodd, obama, van jones, acorn fan. you have no integrity and it has been proven time and time again because you continue to support people who have no problems issuing gag orders to keep the public from knowing the truth. so how much is this baucus plan going to cost us? hmmmm! well, i guess we are forbidden to know that, aren't we? thanks to the lying snakes/democrats, we are kept in the dark as usual. wonder what they have to hide? oh yeah, you are really supporting outstanding anti-Americans!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Repukes ARE the problem with health care. They protect the status quo billionares that profit on our misery, and they WILL NEVER offer any meaningful solution to the train wreck which is our health care delivery system.
  • JackieM
    Let's see what else the idiot liberals are supporting--while people are losing their jobs and homes and obama wants to raise taxes, he decides to waste taxpayer money once again! according to the liberal news site cnn.com, the fool will go to Denmark to make a pitch for the 2016 summer olympic games to be held in Chicago. so the idiot is advocating for his own corrupt city? hmmm! however, he wouldn't take the time to look at the acorn scandal because he had more important matters to attend to. LOL! obama has proven once again that he fits better in the circus arena than in the white house! what in the hell are the democrats/liberals doing supporting this SOB? the proof is here for all to see. he is a joke and so are his supporters! ....and those liberals/democrats say that we are not willing to have rational dialogue! ha! you can't have rational conversations with mentally ill idiots! the proof is here!

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM chitcanned again: C. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

    46
    Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. ...............................and if they would lie to you about one thing, they'd lie to you about anything. All the provisions of HR3200 are yours to read without FACTCHECK, or anyone else to tell you what they mean. Be my guest here: http://www.defendyourheal...
  • JackieM
    NEWSFLASH TO LIBERALS--YOU ARE IDIOTS! Here's the proof--Joe Wilson was right!

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/27/libe...

    You don't have any integrity and should be ashamed of yourselves. Of course, you have no common sense so you wouldn't understand the concept of being an American!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Watch to see who runs and hides first. Liar JackieM just has her sorry butt tacked to the wall.
  • JackieM
    no, i don't run and hide from anyone especially a low-life/liberal! you can quote and read the bill all day and i've read it. however, until the courts decide what they will allow and what they won't, it is a mute point. there are loopholes and the damn liberals would not let this be inserted if there weren't. use some damn common sense for once. the only way we are going to know for sure the absolute truth is after the bill goes into effect and it has been challenged several times. so give up your garbage. you are not on the supreme court! keep up your rhetoric! we see your kind and what they are all about. only idiots would support people who would even think about adding this amendment. as a matter of fact, only idiots support a lying snake named obama hussein. so how many people need healthcare? is it 46M or 30M? how many people out of that number actually NEED healthcare? are some of those eligible for medicaid? YES are some of those folks refusing to get healthcare but can affort it? YES blah, blah, blah. no intelligent person works off numbers that are not real. no intelligent person would support a bill that continues to have the influence of lobbyists. obama could prove he is a leader for once and stop the corruption but he won't. so give me a break and stop with your nonsense!
  • AckAck
    JackieM, have you noticed that when the going gets tough, the liberals run and hide? Isn't it ironic to what they think they stand for? The conservatives just keep going - that's why the liberals lose in the end! Just as they have with Carter, Clinton and now this moron of a illegial alian as president. I hope the people that voted for Hussein can't sleep at night...
  • JackieM
    AckAck--that is the whole problem with liberals--they think! they think they know something because obama tells them so. LOL! the worst part about that is that they will sink with his sinking ship! yes, the conservatives are hitting these idiots hard because they deserve every bit of what they are getting--the truth! i am proud of my fellow Americans who are standing up for what is right, which is everything the left is not! liberals are like slithering snakes. they hide under rocks and strike out periodically. however, they have no clue what they are striking out about! when they raise their ugly heads, they will stop at nothing to accomplish their anti-American agenda! lying, cheating, scheming is their game! as you said, it won't pay off for them. look at Clinton! he is a disgrace to this country after what he did and should be hiding under a rock in shame! however, idiots do not understand shame!
  • AckAck
    By the way, I heard Obama wanted insurance coverage for illegal aliens so he could cover his ass in case they make him show his Kenya Birth Certificate. Make sense? That would make him an illegal alien right? If these idiot democrats lets him stay in as president or stay in this country period, he would need the free insurance...
  • amber3
    What a stupid comment, even for you.
  • flyfshr1cd
    amber3, It's very clear to me that there is NO amount of objective proof for Ack or Jackie regarding Obama's place of birth and many, many other issues. I even asked Ack what would be proof by his own standards, and a few days ago he stated he wanted a "certified" birth certificate, which is what he said weeks ago. However, whne you ask him for exactly what "certified" would mean to him, he just claims up or rants. Then there's the actual text from Sec. 246 of HR3200 that I've posted here on numerous occasions that state in plain English that illegals cannot enroll, which also prooves that Joe Wilson lied.Still they don't accept the truth. I've seen this time and time again with my Conservative friends in Idaho. There is no reason or logic, they follow the mantra of Faux News and Rush Limppaw, and simply can't handle the truth. It must be ingrained from the time they were small children, when they had phantom friends that whispered in their ears, and they gave up all independent thought processes. I call this mindfuggedness.
  • AckAck
    Amber, sorry. I thought I got it right and why do you not agree with me? If he can't show his birth certificate, he is in this country illegal. Under the current proposed health care plan to include illegals, wouldn't that make him elgible?

    I mean, how many firsts does a guy want anyway. He is the first black president and he would be the first black, illegal president wouldn't he. Damn, I thought that remark was right on and here I find someone disagrees with me! I would never have thought that of you girl...
  • flyfshr1cd
    For my friend stuck on 4ever Ack. http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcerti... Ack, tell me if this is a certified certificate. lol
  • AckAck
    Fly, laugh all you want to and ignore something as real as this. That is the computer generated copy that has been around since day one. You're the dope to even accept this as something real. THE REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE HAS NOT BEEN PRODUCED. Give me some more proof, other than this phony copy and we'll go from there. DON'T GIVE ME THAT LINK AGAIN. When you have no other answers, you post this link and pretend to laugh.

    Liberals are loosing the battle and they don't know what to do at this point. By the way, I DO NOT WATCH CNN OR MSNBC. All filth and lies on those stations.
  • JackieM
    I am so thankful for President Bush! He did a tremendous job in pulling organizations together to stop attacks on innocent people in the US. We are seeing his wonderful work in action now! Thanks President Bush!

    idiot obama doesn't have the balls to tell the truth and admit this great accomplishment! the damn democrats/liberals will continue to lie and won't give credit where credit is due but I will!
  • AckAck
    JackieM, it's hard to believe this administration is soooooo corrupt and people don't see it. I really think they see it, they are still hopeful that Obama is the Messiah and is going to fill their hands with goodies. Did you see the Glenn Beck series on the ties that Obama has with corrupt people? Almost unbelievable to have someone with that kind of past and have that person in the White House.

    Speaking of the loons in this nation, think about how many of them voted for Obama. I mean, he is in the White House so I'm hoping a lot of the dopes that voted for him because they thought it eas the right thing to do are having second thoughts now that he is screwing up everything. I know a lot of his followers are like the rats and the pide piper, they'll follow him until the ship goes down and they will go down with him and it.

    Everytime I watch some news programs anymore, it's all about this crap that is going on. I think we need to get with it and take this country back. 2010 is nearing and we need to get ready. I am already picking my people here in Oklahoma, including the governor's race. We have a very strong woman here in Oklahoma, kind of like Sarah Palin and we plan to put her in as governor next year. I could never figure out why this state ever had a democrat governor to begin with. Go figure.
  • JackieM
    AckAck--i think people do see the corruption and it is a replica of their own beliefs if they are still supporting this SOB! his supporters are as evil as obama is! there is no excuse. that is why it is impossible to carry on a civil conversation with them! yes, i agree with you that they are still hopeful that obama is their savior and is going to fill their hands with goodies. i think his supporters are so delusional that they believe anything that idiot is selling. you know just because their messiah says it, it must be true--LOL! i guess they think he is some kind of wizard with a magic wand.

    I really think the independents who voted for obama will correct some of the problems in 2010! hopefully, it is a wakeup call for them! I never thought they would vote for someone like him. I also never thought they were that stupid to begin with but i was wrong! I didn't realize you guys had a democrat for a governor. hmmmm! i would have never guessed! i know why one was elected here last November. it is sickening but the governor here is holding true to the damn liberal/democratic principals and we know where that is leading our state! hopefully, after the governor screws things up more than they are now, people will wise up. time will tell!
  • AckAck
    Jackie, here is another article on the birth certificate issue. I will keep ranting until BHO either shows a certified birth certificate or admits he was born in Kenya. If neither of these happen, the only other thing that would shut me up is for him to resign or be impeached! SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY SCREWED UP BIG TIME OR HE WOULD PUT THIS THING TO REST...


    Why has Barack Hussein Obama spent as much as 1.4 million dollars, to block the American people from seeing his actual birth certificate... the one document that could prove that he is not a fraud and a usurper?

    And that 1.4 million figure doesn't even include actions taken by the United States Department of Justice on your tax-dime.

    According to WorldNetDaily.com: "President Obama may be using his political action committee funds to stomp out eligibility lawsuits brought by Americans, as he has paid more than 1.35 million to his top lawyer since the election."

    "Obama for America, Obama's 2008 political campaign, merged with the Democratic National Committee in January and is now known as Organizing for America. The grassroots army that some refer to as 'Obama 2.0' is still collecting financial contributions.

    "Federal Election Commission records for 'Obama for America' show that the lobby organization has paid international law firm Perkins Coie exactly 1,352,378.95 since the 2008 election."

    Barack Hussein Obama still has the nerve to accuse American citizens of buying into a "conspiracy theory" even though he is spending untold amounts to fight efforts that would compel him to produce the one document that could bolster the argument that he is, in fact, eligible under Article 2, Section 1, of the United States Constitution to hold the office of President of the United States.

    And as for the Mainstream Media (MSM)... why don't you see headlines that read: President of the United States Spends 1.4 Million Dollars To Obstruct Investigation Into Conspiracy Theory?

    The answer is obvious. The MSM is hoping and praying that you don't notice because if you do, they'd be compelled to cover the story.

    Of course the MSM would spin the story, but the MSM knows that no amount of spin can prevent Americans from asking, in increasing numbers ask, what does Barack Obama have to hide?
  • JackieM
    obama has refused to cooperate and that is a problem. if he has nothing to hide, he would have put this to rest a long time ago. he is a crook and there is no doubt about it. my MIL called me early one morning this week. she was upset at the latest incidents obama is pulling. she loves this country so she didn't vote for obama but two of her daughters did. i told her that she needs to place blame where the blame should be--with the idiots who voted him in. it is time they are held responsible! i told her they are not invited into our house and i don't want them around me or my child. i don't associate with fools who have caused the downfall of our nation! my MIL is just like a lot of people in this country. they don't correlate the problems that obama is causing and the voters who are responsible for putting the SOB in there. she doesn't think it matters anymore because it has been done. of course, we know that is not the case. true Americans take voting seriously and don't put our country at risk. obama is a disgrace to our nation and is not respected by those with common sense!
  • JackieM
    Again today I watched this disgusting administration screw ups on the news! It is sad that they are screwing up every single day. The corruption is undeniable! So today we learned that the damn liberals/democrats decided that Americans did not need to know what was in the Finance committee healthcare bill or how much it costs. where is the transparency here? Can we say corruption? I am very proud of the Republicans for standing up against the wrongs of this mob. only the stupid are supporting these fools! the damn liberals/democrats are hiding right now and won't respond to what their corrupt politicians are doing. they have a mental illness of some sorts or are just plain evil!

    the voting to not fund acorn is a perfect example of this corruption. who in the hell would belong to a party that would dare include people who would want to still fund this horrific oganization? only fools is the answer! everyone knew that this group was corrupt but the damn liberals/democrats refused to do anything about it until it was in their faces.

    We also heard that the medicare providers are being bullied by obama and his crooks and are not being allowed to tell the truth about how the healthcare plans will affect seniors. You can choose what term you would like to describe this administration--dictatorship, communism, socialism, facism, etc. however, there is one thing for sure--there is no positive description that will fit. this is definitely the worst administration we have had during my lifetime! carter would rate better than these idiots and we know what kind of lunatic he is!

    of course, we all saw the anti-American speeches obama has made lately. it is sickening! thank goodness Sarah Palin made her speech in Hong Kong. I know the media wasn't allowed in and the transcripts were released but I think it is clear to a lot of countries that obama only represents the loons in this country. he does not represent true Americans and I hope Palin continues to expose the moron obama for what he is. I tried to make this known while I was overseas and will continue to do so every chance I get. People need to hear the truth and not the lies obama and his supporters are spreading. unfortunately, this has become a war between good and evil. obama's supporters are too stupid to understand the side they represent!

    obama is continuing to divide this nation and has stabbed some of our allies in the back. where is his uniting here? LOL! he is a liar and fraud! of course, he is also an SOB, but who didn't know that already!

    it is really sickening to hear the clips of students doing chants about obama. people should be ashamed of themselves! the parents of these children should be outraged and we should be seeing them all over the news. obviously, the parents are just as much to blame because they are not out there! this school system should be thankful my child is not part of this! the obama cult is alive and well with lunatics supporting this crap! the respect for the office has been lost specifically due to obama's actions. he is more interesting in holding pep rallies and promoting himself and his agenda than helping our country. the unemployment rates prove this!

    instead of making policies that would create jobs quickly, obama and his corrupt mobs continue to waste money and jobs continue to be lost. they refuse to create jobs because the solutions are fairly simple. they would rather blow more money by extending unemployment benefits. why not create jobs instead? obama hasn't accomplished one positive thing since he has been in the white house so it would be nice for him to start here since this is the biggest and more immediate problem we have.

    idiots have said people are bashing obama. that is a lie. we are standing up for what America stands for. if the person elected to represent our country is anti-American, it is the responsibility of true Americans to expose him! Period!
  • flyfshr1cd
    First paragraph above tell all. 1.2 million from the Bush ruling billionaire elite to Twitter lies like WMD and AQ in Iraq when Bush was stinking up the White House.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, How many RNC lies about HR3200? Let me count the ways. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lie...
  • AckAck
    Fly, do you support the fish? Or do you just not like farmers? Most of you nut cases are behind the environmental idiots who love the fish better. Just checking, nothing would surprise me from any liberal nut.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Hey Ack, You out there?
  • AckAck
    Hi Fly how you doing?
  • AckAck
    Fly, just a small comment on the above post. When you are right, YOU ARE RIGHT! I am a conservative and I am for the fish and wildlife and the environment. Now, being a conservative does not qualify me to be for all that. BEING AN AMERICAN DOES!

    I am not a waco but almost anything you that comes up short or is bad for the environment, you can usually blame a politician. Either a politician caused it or supported some waco special interest group that did. I blame some politicans for a lot of things in our area, but recently (last decade or so) they have really taken charge of some things concerning our environment. To include cleaning up old oil well sites, contaminated lands and keeping oversite on our streams and rivers. Also our city's projected growth for 200 years and the water it will take to supply water for that growth. I looked at some overlays in our city's planning commission office and was surprised to find out there is a very large resevoir lake to be build somewhere in the future RIGHT WHERE I LIVED! The project was slated for 90 years out so it does not presently effect me but would someone in the future. Now, I wasn't pissed because of the planning, I was pissed because I was not notified!

    I also found out a lot about city planning to include the a projected population growth, future locations of emergency facilities that would include fire and police departments, schools, sewers and drainage for the next 200 years. Housing, industrial and commercial areas were also included. I was well pleased that all that was done by our local city commissioners and their planning committees. I also say satellite photos and projected changes in our major rivers and streams to include future highways and biways. THEY ACTUALLY GAVE ME A TOUR AND A VERY EDUCATIONAL OVERVIEW of the entire city planning for the next 200 years. Kind of amazing to look into the future and know I won't be there.

    They don't notifiy anyone personally when they plan things like this in their long range planning but they are getting better at recording these plans on plats. Right now one has to go to city hall and request to see this if they want to know. Maybe that will change also.

    By the way, how have you been?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I'm hangin in. Who'd a thunk I'd ever read that about you? Do you know of any Con politico's in Okla. that are pro-enviro? I sure don't here in Idaho. What;s your opinion on Global Warming?
  • AckAck
    Fly, you know, I don't really do much serious blogging on these sites because a greater number of the bloggers are pure idiots. You however, I'm still trying to figure you out. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and share some my real knowledge with you. Not the usual hecktic stuff.

    About global warning, I don't really know if anything but "Ma Nature" could actually cause the temperatures to change on earth. I believe the natural events that come with time is going to happen. If the polar ice caps melt, it will be because of the natural current of events. I also know there is a lot of money to be made from these wacos that want you to believe we're melting and go overboard with their save the wilderness garbage. I think all the hype is just that.

    I do believe the actions of humans have damaged the Ozone Layer and I think we continue to damage it with pollutants from manufacturing facilities. Now, I also believe that the bigger items have been delt with and laws to enforce the rules are still being written as we speak. It takes a lot of cooporation to make a dent in these kinds of problems and you are not going to get the bigger nations that survive from their manufacturing plants such as China, India and many other countries to stop the polluting. They're just not going to do it. Maybe, just maybe, a little here and a little there to pasify the world.

    I have been in the manufacturing business for more than 25 years and one such chemical we deal with, or I should say avoid dealing with is CFC's. One section of my company manufactures aerosols. (spray paint) CFC's may be the greatest threat to the Ozone Layer than any other chemical. We have long since used those in our manufacturing.

    This all started in the Late 1920s, when chemicals called chloroflurocarbons, or CFCs, were invented. These chemicals were not poisonous and didn't harm anything. Plants, people or fabrics. These reasons were why the effects of the use of these chemicals was not considered bad for such a long time. Companies thought there were great and used them in refrigerators, air conditioners, styrofoam packaging, and spray cans. From the 1920s to the 1970s, billions of CFC molecules were released into the air.

    In the 1970s, scientists began to wonder what happens to all those CFCs that were being released into the air. They knew that these chemicals were not falling back to earth. So, if they didn't fall back to earth, where on earth did they go? Through some extensive research, they realized these CFCs were actually going so high, they were penetrating the troposphere up into the straosphere where UV rays would break them down. The chemicals that make up CFCs are mainly chlorine and flourine. These chemicals were just going up into the air and floating around the stratosphere, breaking up ozone molecules. I can only repeat what I have read about the hole in the ozone layer. It lets UV rays through that are stronger than the ones filtered through the ozone layer. That's about the extent of my knowledge on the damage to the ozone layer.

    In 1979, the US and many other countries banned CFCs from being made or used. They put a stop to using these in spray products and are still banning them from the airconditioning units across the globe. This was a pretty good step in fixing that problem however, what happened to the ones (the billions of particles) that had already released? The CFCs already released into the atmosphere can take up to 50 years to reach the stratosphere. Once there, they can hang around almost forever.

    I have studied the effects on the ozone layer from these products and they are real. I have been cautioning people in the use of them for many years because of that belief. Our automobile airconditioners still contain these CFC chemicals and should be disposed of properly before an automobile is taken for junk. Automobile airconditioners should only be repaired by qualified AC mechanics. Once CFCs have been released into the air, you can't catch these rascals. They are going to hang around for decades and decades.

    I have nothing at all concrete on the "Global Warming", except that time will unfold the changes to the earth as it has for millions of years. You can predict that as good as I can.

    Want to add something?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Thanx much for that report on your history with CFC chemicals. I've read that over the years, and realize that my the CFC in my auto should be disposed of properly before hitting the junk yard. I hope you realize that it would take Fed regulations for that to happen, so I hope Obama will do the right thing with that. As for Global Warming, of course the earth warms and cools cyclically, but that takes place over tens of thousands of years. What we see now has been compressed into the last 50 years, and co2 which has been released by the burning of fossil fuels is the primary culprit. I don't know how the depletion of the ozone layer comes to play in man caused warming, but it's a serious threat by itself. If you want to read a very good factual article regarding the very recent effects of warming in N/W America, just send me an email so I can attach the article back to you with my own email. I'm [email protected]. Cheers!
  • AckAck
    Fly, I think one could read a hundred years on greenhouse gases and not make a dent on what is being said about these things. Make no mistake, this didn't start last week. Greenhouse gases has been around since the first breath was taken on down to the first animals that ate their first meal. Speculation leads us in many different directions and sometimes that direction takes us to a dead end street.

    The most abundant greenhouse gases include, CFC's, we already talked a little about them. Also, on that list are many other greenhouse gases to include, nitrous oxide, water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and ozone itself.

    Real climate ranks by their contribution to the greenhouse effect: I really didn't know the percentages of these so I looked them up and here is some figures that might help understand that not just one, but many make up our meteorological conditions. Keeping mind also that these are timed estimates over a period of 25 to 50 years.

    Water vapor, which contributes 36 - 70%
    Carbon dioxide, which contributes 9 - 26%
    Methane, which contributes 4 - 9%
    Ozone, which contributes 3 - 7%

    What this is saying is; Greenhouse gases have been around the earth since before human existance or any life form existed. We have only realized through our standards of living, we make them worse within the last few decades. We are just now really getting ready to do something about them. What, with the changing of the combustable engines to more non-pollutant, cleaner methods of powering our vehicles. This is a major step and will be most effective in the future. (If we last that long.)

    I will not get into the anthropogenic effects of these greenhouse gases because it would only take up space on here and I think I have taken enough space.
  • AckAck
    Fly, see the post below.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I didn't mean to ignore your question about my enviro leanings. Not only do I support protection of out fish, game, water, air, soil, plants, trees and every one of God's critters, but I've worked tirelessly for years w/o earning one thin dime. Need I remind you that we human's require a healthy Ma Nature to survive as well? It's all a matter of balance, and compromise, like screens for irrigation pumps. Here's a good example of wtaer law fubar in Idaho. For over 40 years the Idaho Supreme Court has ruled that all of Idaho's waters have been adjudicated (dvivied up) by the phrase "first in line, first in time". This basically means whoever was using whatever water first, continues to get it first. This seemed all right and good until about 10 years ago new and SUBSIDIZED Dairy farms were built in the Twin Falls area to "spur the local economy". Where have we NOT heard that line used before? Locan pork coming from DC notwithstanding, you probably know that Dairy Farms use tons of water, for which there was none appropriated. No problem, sez our Legislatures composed mainly of Farmers and Ranchers, the new Dairy Farms will just be allowed to drill it up from the same aquifer that's already been depleted by droughts and wasteful irrigation practices, as if the ground and the rivers in Idaho are not connected! Fast forward to about six years ago when the well water drillers got themselves sued by, noooooooo not whacko enviros, but the largest commercial trout producer in the world, Clear Springs Hatchery, who requires (you guessed it) pure ground Spring water to grow their trout. From what I've read, their spring flows have been reduced by 70%. The law suit is still pending because of "temporary yearly funding" to Clear Springs Hatchery from our Idaho State Legislature from our tax base, which OBTW, excludes many farmers, ranchers and irrigators from our 6% State Sales Tax. Any wonder why real fiscal Conservatives are righteously pissed with our State Legislators? Comments?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, There's room for farmers AND fish. You know that.
  • AckAck
    Fly, you didn't answer the question. However, your statement does merrit some attention. I agree there is plenty of room for the fish and the farmers. Bottom line here is, and you know it to, that this isn't about caring for the fish. You have the same thing here as saying "Obama cares about you and me." IT'S NOT ABOUT THE FISH. With Obama IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PEOPLE. It's about obtaining power. Radical left wing environmentalist nut heads want to prove something to the world. So does your president.

    Instead of shutting off all this water and ruining a lot of good farm land, putting a lot of people out of work, they could have found a way to filter the fish out of the pumps before hand. Don't you think? I'm not blaming this on Obama, but he could do something about it as any sitting president could do. I am blaming the present congress and all the elected officials in the past that sat on their butts, allowing all these crazy rules to be made, without any thought of the destruction of anything connected to their goofy laws. Do you agree with any of that? Before anything is put on a protection list, there should first be a study of good vs bad. This is simply another failure from our elected officials to serve the people. Special interest wins, we lose!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Forgot to mention what I've just read in today's local newspaper (you really ought to read yours).Seems that the Federal Fish Hatchery in that same Twin Falls area has reported that they have to cut their Steelhead smolt production by 7% due to the continuing depletion of the Snake River aquifer, and the cold water springs they depend on for production. "In recent years, declining flows at the springs have been a source of controversy between fish producers and southern Idaho farmers and ranchers." OBTW, all this "should not be necessary" Salmon and Steelhead production to replace the native fish lost by the 4 Lower Dams constructed on the Snake river in the state of Washington just to make the inland city of Lewiston, Id. a "seaport" and a barging highway via The Snake River for local farmers at a subsidized rate (understand that they already shipped by rail to Portland) BECAME necessary when those 4 dams went up due to pork barrel spending in the 60's.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, The Special Interests which are the one's with the most power are the one's with megabucks. Would you agree with that? Money buys both votes with propaganda and it literally buys the votes of our representatives in Congress to vote for or against any bill. Would you agree with that? For once, I don't want to argue with you on any issue like what you've already framed in your mind as simply being fish vs jobs, or fish vs farmers. Please answer my first two questions, and we can take it from there.
  • AckAck
    Fly, I can't believe we are having this conversation. For once you're right. However, I did answer those two questions in the above post. Perhaps the wording was a little different but the meaning was the same. You are right again.

    Special interest do have big bucks, but guess what? Most of that comes from our tax dollars. If a special interest group can convince a politician that a lot of people are on their side, they will vote for it and the group gets the big bucks. All this is done through lobbyist. Like you said, they want the votes. Answer this for me, HOW DO WE GET RID OF THE LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON? Some lobbying is good for our individual areas and some representatives do want to take care of their people, after all that is where they are elected and it's good job protection to do that. A lot of the dollars that go out attached to bills by elected officials is not good for the people in general. What do you say to that?

    Back to the fish vs farmers. It was never about fish vs farmers. It's all about a special interest group of - blank - blank - people who wish to push an agenda without thought. Now, looking at it from my pespective, I have to look at the jobs, farmers, crops, etc., vs the little ole fish. For me, let the fish go to hell. (that's just me) I don't know much about them but if they are this important, protect them from the pumps. That could be done.
  • JackieM
    when obama said he would not put any lobbyists in his cabinet, i knew he was lying but was willing to give him a chance. HA! he lied! that is why i know that only fools believe in his healthcare plan. there are too many lobbyists in Washington who are going to sway him and the other crooks. so we will never get a true overhaul that will benefit everyone. the healthcare plan can be debated and debated but when you have a corrupt government, it is a mute point. as we know dodd slips things into bills at the last minute and the lawyers will insert language into the bill that will ensure there are loopholes. so we are screwed! of course, it the healthcare plan will fail even if it passes because there are not enough professionals to support influx of medical needs. obama has covered this up by not addressing this huge problem and the democrats are overlooking it too. it is their plan and it is being sold to the idiots who buy into it without having the major issues resolved. you will notice that i have asked about this time and time again and have yet to get a response by these left winged nuts. they also refuse to explain how the trickle up theory of economics is sustainable when the government "stimulus" money is going to run out. obama is the leader of the corruption and caters to the unions and others. anyone who supports this SOB is a fool!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I forgot the biggest "incentive" that the lobbyists offer our trusted representatives to get their votes: CASH!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, The screens for farmer's pumps are just one of many,many issues that have pitted fish vs farms, as you've chosen to frame it. (in Idaho, them too). But thanks for agreeing that screens could, and should be installed on irrigation pumps. Fact is, they haven't been unless a law is passed requiring compliance. But back to common bi-partisan problems. Do you really think that the Chamber of Commerce, AMA, Hospital Association of America, The Teamsters, AFL/CIO, , RNC, Teachers Unions and the like are funded by the U.S. Treasury? Hell no. They come from membership dues and private contributions, which then go towards hiring Lobbyists (bag men), who then bribe our Representatives. There are thousands of them in D.C., many of which are the same criminals that have already been run out of office, like our own Larry Craig.Remember him? There's nothing wrong with making a case verbally for or against a bill, or for more local pork. This is NOT what's done. It's all about the money and political favors like keys to a Bahama getaway, an tryst with your mistress to Argentina, a promise of a megabucks job after retiring from office, or a week end with a high priced D.C. prostitute. When you ask if I approve of cash going for local pork barrel projects, I say hell no! That comes from taxes, and a bigger government (budgets) that I know I oppose, don't you? OBTW, here in Idaho, perhaps the most Conservative state in the union, where Repug leaders here profess to abhor taxation and big D.C. spending, our state gets back something like $1.60 for every Fed tax dollar collected, with most of it going to AG/mining/timber welfare. Does that sound fair to you? Does it sound like they walk the walk that they talk? How about your state?
  • AckAck
    Fly, I live in Oklahoma and we are right in the middle of the bible belt. Not that it matters much anymore. Most keep hanging on and gradually graduating to something different than the founding fathers had in mind. We are suppose to be in the top 5 of the most conservative states. I honestly don't know where it stands at this point. That should give us the edge on the republican vote. Guess what? It don't anymore. Our churches are full of hard liner democrats (Older type farmers and cattle ranchers - some younger ones who stand to inherit the old ranches and farms.) and they don't give a damn about what their president does when he is on his own time. They sort of look at his track record around the office and make their assessments from that. Bill Clinton is a good example. They think he was a great president regardless of his sex problems. I, on the other hand, have a problem with a person holding the highest office in this land doing what he done. Or anything to tarnish the office of the president.

    To the union example you made. I am well up in age, older than you and I remember in the 40's when John L. Lewis helped organize the UMW in Kentucky, Virginia, West Virginia and Pennsylvania. My dad was a democrat and from that point on everyone I knew was a democrat. Not because democrats were good, just because of the unions that were backed by the democrats. I was taught that republicans were fat cats and had all the money and if we got any of it, we had to take it.

    Unions were good in those days. It didn't take long though for politicians to realize that the union membership represented a lot of votes. The democrats have always won out on that one. Why, because unions are supposed to represent the working class people. The politicians running for office have always tried to collect the union vote.

    It came to pass that unions became powerful and very big business within themselves. At some point they got away from really caring about the member except for the dues he or she paid. That brings us to the point of the membership dues to the unions which I again agree with you on that. Now the unions have Washington in their pockets and there is not a damn thing you and I can do about it!

    Enough for now and you never answered my question of how to get the lobbyist out of Washington.
  • flyfshr1cd
    OBTW Ack, would you demand the impeachment of that slime S. Carolina Gov. Sanford who screwed his mistress in Argentina while being AWOL from the Governor's office? OBTW, you DO know the RIGHT bought out the bible thumpers, formally DEms in your state, and everywhere else with those continual abortion rants which I've heard since the 60's that really don't mean a damn about the real issues in the U.S. today, dontcha?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Your Dad was right about the unions being for workers (common man). But you were right about them buying the Dems with bucks, and i hope yo agree that all the OTHER Special Interests that I've named from the right have done the same. So money talks, and and talk walks, right? Would you support complete comprehensive campaign contribution reform as I would? Would your Fed representative sponsor legislation that it would be illegal to take any money or gifts of any kind while in office beyond a few hundred per individual, and replace that with taxpayer funding of a modest amount for each candidate running for office? Would you also ask him or her to live up to the term limits they demanded when Clinton was in office?
  • AckAck
    Fly, first off, let me say without elaborating too much on the past that, not only have I supported term limits for elected officials, I have also ranted about it for years. Secondly, I have always been for comprehensive campaign contribution reform. I even have a problem with using tax payer funds for the initial support of any political candidate. I personally think a candidate should be limited to a certain amount of money they can spend for a single campaign - PERIOD! Run out of money, you run out of advertising. For example, if you are running for the office of Senator, you are limited to spending X number of dollars - PERIOD! Same with other levels of political offices. This would stop all the fradulant campaign contributions because if you are limited to, let's say - $5,000,000.00 total campaign expenditure, I wouldn't care if that candidate got the entire lump sum from one person. That wouldn't matter. Enforce the ceiling level and you got all that other crap taken care of.

    Would you support a flat tax?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Told ya I'm not that far from you in core values. Right on for campaign contribution funding limits, but don't forget the handoffs from the lobbiests once in office. Stiff jail sentences too, and audits before, during, and after office. I would not support the Flat Sales Tax because: 1. It comes from multi billionaire Steve Forbes, and pays less with a flat tax. 2. The middle class would pay more. 3. It is a regressive method of taxation 4. There no reason to expect that the billionaire tax write offs wouldn't continue, and you can bet that like here in Idaho, they'd create exclusions from any taxation by type of business, which would allow owners to buy yachts w/o tax.
  • JackieM
    then tell the idiot obama that then so that the people can feed their families. of course, obama's office has ignored the issue just like they ignore everything else. for example, obama lied when he said his door was open and he would listen to others' healthcare proposals. there have been requests to meet with him and they all have been ignored. so it is just the same ole rhetoric that we have heard time and time again. i think you need to really start paying attention to the filth you call an administration!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, Save your breath on that Dodd/AIG story and that "I've heard Dodd say it myself" B.S.. Here it is straight from old "fair and balanced" Fox News. So now that you've inserted yout rit in the tinger once again, will you DENY this source!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, What's keeping you from telling me where you got that story of Dodd stopping legislation that would have curtailed AIG bonuses. I say Bushit, but you could make ME the fool with a credible story. Your ball!
  • JackieM
    by the way, you would be better served if you would stand with those of us who are tired of the corruption in Washington from both parties and fight to get rid of the waste, such as the murtha airport debacle or funding towards keeping the pig smell down. then you idiot liberals would have a leg to stand on. you support fools who waste our money for no purpose whatsoever. then you try to "convince" us that we are in the wrong when we don't support the morons who are causing the problem? you are a joke!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, ............................and that source issssssssssssss http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/indust... Heh heh heh.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Jackie/Ack, Tell me why both of you jokers are NOW asking about enviro stuff? Progressives are always the first to back consumer protection, a fair balance between farmers and the fish pig stink and the like. I have testified many, many times in the Idaho State legislature in support of such measures. Of course we will joining hands in the corruption in politics, or pork barrel spending caused by bribes from lobbyists.
  • JackieM
    I am not asking about enviro stuff as you put it. I am stating that obama is wasting our money by allowing such projects in a "stimulus" bill and, of course, there are many, many more. you need to blame obama for signing pork barrel spending bills in a time of an economic crisis. ....and you wonder why we will not trust him on anything else? hmmmm! of course, all you have to do is to look at dodd and how he conveniently "changed" a section in a bill that would have prevented AIG from getting bonuses. then obama conveniently forgot about that and acted shocked. so why should we trust the liberals? why should we trust obama when he clearly didn't know what he was signing? you mark my words--if this debacle of a healthcare passes and it is a public plan, illegals will get it. the proper ID will not be asked for and the government will claim ignorance. the courts will interpret the bill and include illegals. in addition, i wouldn't doubt we would pay for abortions. thanks to obama we are already paying for them overseas. you have no leg to stand on when you are a part of the acorn, van jones, obama, pelosi lying machine!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, You said that Obama didn't know what he was signing. Is this the bill he signed? R.U. opposed to the 90% tax on unearned bonuses to the ruling elite at AIG? http://epoch-archive.com/a1/en/us/nyc/2009/03-M...
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, It's all about your sources for tripe such as this. him on anything else? hmmmm! of course, all you have to do is to look at dodd and how he conveniently "changed" a section in a bill that would have prevented AIG from getting bonuses. then obama conveniently forgot about that and acted shocked. You've told me before that you listen to Obama talk when you come up with stuff like this, when it's obvious that you get it from fatty, drug crazed Limppaw, or other talk radio buffoons, and ask why you should trust liberals. I've already proved to you that they've lied to you about Joe Wilson hooliganism and disrespect for the office of the President, while HE was the liar, and not Obama. Most people would be really pissed about being lied to, but you just go on blaming the liberals. So, if any of you Tea Party folks ever get the notion that 99% of the libs are middle class exploited Americans who hate our dirty politics and wasteful spending just like you do, I ask YOU this question. Why would I ever trust a Conservative who ignores the facts when proven wrong, and continues to futilely lash out in every direction about corrupt politicians on the take from lobbiests, when you don't even question your SOURCES? As long as THEY keep you distracted, and keep us divided, they win and we lose. So once again, I ask you for the source of the Dodd/AIG bonuses "story". If it came from a RNC site, post the link, if it came from what you've heard on Fox or talk radio, do a Google that would lead to a RNC site and post THAT link.
  • JackieM
    You are a ignorant fool! I don't listen to Rush and don't even know what station he is on. I happened to have heard what Dodd did straight from Dodd himself. So you go out there and find it if the clip is on the net. I don't have to prove anything to you because I know what I heard. You don't make the rules around here and haven't proved a damn thing to me. by the way, keep ignoring the biggest issue in this healthcare debate. where in the hell are all of the doctors and medical personnel coming from? i guess the rationing of healthcare as a result of this mess is ok with you? there are medical professionals out there who are saying that they will leave the profession if this goes through. they are almost retirement age and weren't planning on retiring but will seriously consider it. what obama and his cult followers forget is that you can't control people. you may try to control everything else but people won't put up with it. by the way, you didn't answer another question either. it is just another lie from obama. how can people chose to keep their own healthcare plan if the employer decides to pay the penalty and cancel the policy? explain this! oh yeah, while you are at it, explain where the small businesses are going to come up with the penalty when they can't hardly afford to keep their doors open due to obama's bad economic policy. explain where the folks they layoff are going to work and how that is going to help our economy. also, where are the jobs? i'm not talking the temporary ones or the czar jobs. i am talking about the permanent jobs that have been created as a result of the "stimulus." we don't see any evidence of jobs in my area so maybe you can point out the cities that are booming as a result so that i can tell the folks who are unemployed around here. they will be glad to move.
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, I've already proved that Joe Wilson was the liar, not Obama. Now you get to rebut the other 25 lies coming from the RNC here: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lie... Ta ta
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, This says it all about how you discuss/debate anything here:"I happened to have heard what Dodd did straight from Dodd himself" This coming from you after I respectfully asked for your source for the Dodd changing something in a bill that would have prevented AIG employees from getting a bonus. SO, you want me to believe that this admission came straight from Dodd's mouth? So you won't do the work of providing a link to support your story, and ask me to do it for you? WHY?
  • JackieM
    Because it is not my fault you don't keep up with the news and interviews. You should have been paying attention to the news when the story broke during the "stimulus" debacle. the same goes for everything i write. it was out there for everyone to see/hear on the news and yet you missed it? LOL! give me a break. i'm not your mother!
  • JackieM
    so how long have you been an authority on interpreting these bills? i didn't realize that you were a judge and would give us an analysis on how the courts would handle this. we all know that the judges to date have been more liberal towards illegals. where is your proof that the courts would ensure no illegals would benefit? by the way, i missed the part in the bill that requires everyone to show proof of citizenship. where is that? you and the rest of the fools are good for a laugh!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, JackieM, You represent a story as a fact like Dodd changed a bill that would have prevented AIG employees from getting a bonus without a link for your source, and then claim you've proved a point about "bad" liberals? I tell you again, I have provided, and will continue to provide, factual links as I did with SECTION 246 of HR3200 to prove that I'm no just blowing smoke out of my az. If you're not willing to play by the same rules, what's the point here?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Factless JackieM, proven wrong again, now grasps at straws. The courts have nothing to do with Federal Legislation, and ANY health Insurance application ask for SS#, Driver's Licence, as shown in one of my 4 links. So, know that we all know, that illegals can't enroll in Obamacare, when you take the black feathers out of your teeth from the crow you just ate, and even Faux has told you by now that Liar Joe Wilson has been censured, perhaps a bit of humility is in order. lol
  • JackieM
    I knew you would say that. There are states that are giving illegals driver's licenses!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, Name the states, name your source about giving illegals driver's licenses. For once you can't claim it came from Obama.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What's "fair and balanced" about Faux news when I can come here every day to educate you Cons about what they haven't reported as news? Why do you only go to Faux, an admitted Conservative media, if not for your daily dose of Bushit?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, "misspelling those simple words". You mean what?
  • AckAck
    Fly, pay very close attention here now, I am going to start this spelling class off very simple. Here goes - Repeat after me: F - O - X. FOX. Let me hear you spell that now. No! No! No! Not FAUX, it"s F O X - F O X - F O X. Now go practice that and report back to me with a copy of your home work. If you learn to spell this one I'll go to a little harder one like B U S H!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Please explain what the word "excludes" means from her very own post. illegal aliens are excluded from precisely one section of the
    thousand-page, goodie-laden health care bill: Section 246, w OBTW, could you also ask her how many pages must exclude illegal aliens from the bill? LMAO
  • flyfshr1cd
    While Jackie types in her own version of SECTION 246 of HR3200
    illegal aliens are excluded from precisely one section of the thousand-page, goodie-laden health care bill: Section 246, which distributes taxpayer-funded "affordability credits" to people who can't afford to pay for their own health care. LIAR
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, .....................or if you're willing to scroll to SECTION 246 of the printed bill http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS... and another http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text Then again, you'd probably say it was the "liberal" version of the bill. lmao
  • AckAck
    Fly, you just don't get it do you? THE WHOLE FREKIN BILL IS THE "LIBERAL" VERSION! What part of that don't you understand? Damn, get a brain!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What besides "never admit I'm wrong", has prevented you from answering this from earlier today? So, now what to you have to say about Liar Joe Wilson, now that you have proof that illegals can't enroll in Obamacare??
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Jeaaaaaaaaaaaasus, man. Don't you get that there's just one HR3200 bill, and I was just yanking your chain. So, now what to you have to say about Liar Joe Wilson, now that you have proof that illegals can't enroll in Obamacare??
  • JackieM
    AckAck--these idiots like fly will continue their lies just to ensure their kind continue to believe their crap! Of course, you and I know the following but it is time it is spelled out on this site for the stupid. Joe Wilson was right!

    illegal aliens are excluded from precisely one section of the thousand-page, goodie-laden health care bill: Section 246, which distributes taxpayer-funded "affordability credits" to people who can't afford to pay for their own health care.

    Even this minor restriction on taxpayer largesse to illegals will immediately be overturned by the courts. But the point is: Except for vouchers, the bill does not even pretend to exclude illegals from any part of national health care -- including the taxpayer-funded health insurance plan.

    Moreover, liberals won't have to wait for some court to find that the words "nothing in this subtitle shall allow" means "this bill allows," because the bill contains no mechanism to ensure that the health care vouchers aren't going to illegal aliens. Nor does the bill prohibit the states from providing taxpayer-funded health care vouchers to illegals.

    liberals are not smart enough to figure this out on their own because they have to wait to get rhetoric from obama. they are also too stupid to understand the mess they have gotten us into. of course, they will continue their lies despite the fact that in the end it doesn't matter what is in the bill if the courts deem otherwise and we know the courts will try to protect illegals! that is where obama/bagdad bob and his crooks are trying to trick us. his supporters buy into it every time and when they find out obama has lied, they turn the story around to insist he didn't!

    i'm still trying to figure out where the jobs are. if we are stupid enough to listen to obama's and biden's lies of job creation, we would be led to believe jobs have been created. now any average person understands we need sustainable jobs to actually get us out of this mess. that is where obama and his idiot followers are lying. obama hasn't created any sustainable jobs unless you count the czars and idiots like them. as you and I predicted, the private sector is pulling us out of this mess slowly despite obama's insistence on stifling them.
  • AckAck
    JackieM, couldn't of said it better myself. There are no jobs that have been created by any of this administrations moves. (Unless you are in the clan.) Stastics prove enemployment has risen and people are running out of money. That's why you see more and more people going to the town hall meetings and the tea parties. THEY ARE FED UP WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION'S BULL SHIT! I don't know how much farther they can go without the whole world turning against us.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, As usual, Jackie cuts/paste an "opinion" from a LIEsite, when the facts are here: What part of H.R. 3200, Section 246 can Joe Wilson NOT understand?
    The House bill, H.R. 3200, excludes anyone who is not a legal resident of the United States from coverage of extended insurance provisions. Section 246 reads, "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States Clearly she lies, or her "source" lies.
  • AckAck
    Fly, Fly, Fly, you insist on going down with the ship! What a loss... NOT!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I'll even agree to call it "Fox" if you agree to read my links. lol
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, .............................or would you prefer from The Library of Congress America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)
    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

    Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
  • AckAck
    Fry Fly, there you go again, mis-spelling those simple words and slinging your cute little metaphorical words around. Not everyone understands idiots. So, either brush up on your english or go somewhere else and join your kind.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, RE: Fox or Faux Like myself, you're probably old enough to remember Red Skelton's favorite quote "I calls 'em the way I see 'em". Get used to Faux.
  • AckAck
    Fly eyes, did you ever read the BOOK? Here are some excerpts from it:

    From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

    From Dreams of My Father: 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race...'

    From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'

    From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

    From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself: the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

    And FINALLY,

    From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, You DO have a link for that last line about standing with the muslims, don't you?
  • AckAck
    Fly, I know where you can get your handy-dandy Obama bumper sticker removing tool for free. Plus they give you a "NOPE" bumper sticker to replace it. I suggest you get it and join the movement before you see and feel nothing but water. You are sinking big with this one you know?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack< any reason to assume that I know wtf you're talking about with "The book".
  • AckAck
    Fish head, of course there is. Every liberal has the book! "Dreams of my Father" You know the one about your mesiah?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Don't need to read the Obama book, I've seen several TV Documentaries about his life, AND where he was born in Hawaii. Chuckle
  • AckAck
    Fly, where did you see them? On CNN or MSNBC? Chuckle.
  • AckAck
    If you don't have the book, borrow Dora's copy.
  • Dora
    and your point is ...?

    Bubbles- I have no idea why you felt it necessary to bring race into your reply- I spoke about your alliance and unquestioning allegiance to FOX - programming which radically distorts, omits, and misrepresents the news, people, opinions, quotations, photographs, and polls- to name a few. Unlike you, Bubbles- I listen to opinions that do not mirror my own. I try to understand why people continually vote against your best interests. I try to understand why your party gives the impression that they have no soul. I try to understand why you cannot abide those with opinions different than yours. I try to understand why you personally feel compelled to call people names rather than confront the conversation at hand.
    But, understand this, Bubbles- anytime anyone anywhere tries to legislate their religion into my life- I will not be still.
    Anytime anyone anywhere finds it open season on people based upon the color of their skin, their religion (or lack thereof) , their sexuality, or place of origin, I will not be still.
    Don't stand there and accuse me of "hating America" because I do not agree with you. If you believe that your right to speak trumps mine- you don't really understand what America is.
  • AckAck
    Dora, the race card belongs to the liberals. It's their ACE in the hole card. Use the race card or blame Bush - better yet, use both... My point was just the opposite. But, being a good liberal and very much familiar with the term, you used it out of mere habit. Bad girl... You naughty ole liberal.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Dora to Bubbles, Sound like something I could have written. You reach out to them, they bite your hand, ignorant& fearful, they cling to their religion and their guns. Obama was dead on right.
  • AckAck
    Dora, as far as the "hating America" comment, bad choice of words. What I really should have said is: "Liberals have no concept or thought as to what the consequences of their actions are." Let me explain that a little further for you. I might have to use a liberal term or something to get you to understand that every action of a liberal indicates "THEY HATE AMERICA!" Sad part is they don't see that. Their actions are destroying this country but do they see it? Seems they don't, or they just don't give a damn. I think you just don't give a damn as long as everyone agrees with you.
  • JackieM
    Thank you for all of your compliments! Insults from the radicals just reiterate everything I've said all along--you can't discuss common sense with a liberal. for example, obama's speech today to wallsteet turned him into more of a laughing stock. how can anyone in that business be expected to listen to someone who doesn't have any experience in business or the markets? it is sad. we see that the markets were unaffected by him. they don't consider him to be an authority of their world so they don't care what he has to say. it is really a shame that we don't have anyone leading this country that is qualified.

    obama continues to spew his garbage about what he inherited. now i would not have a problem with that as long as he was honest and clarified his statements. if he had said the Iraq war was on Bush and all of the democrats and republicans that voted for it, and he (obama) supported the TARP so it would not be honest to put it all on Bush since his hands are dirty. however, it makes for good political lies and the gullible will buy into it as usual. of course, his idiot supporters continue to use this to continue the deception. that is just another reason the poll numbers reflect as they do. obama has no creditability as we know.

    now i am going to ask the liberals again where the jobs are. i know so many highly educated people with families all across this country who can't find jobs and are looking for them. now i'm sure the damn liberals don't really care about the plight of others. that is obvious. however, there are those of us who actually care about people! the truth is that there are no jobs and obama has no proof that any were created/saved. i guess it is just another one of those fantasies that we are just supposed to believe. you know--like the word hope that was used during the campaign. nothing can be proven but we are just supposed to believe someone who has lied continuously.

    of course, we have to give obama credit for dividing this country after promising to unite it. ignoring the people of this country is a big mistake. catering to the unions and corrupt organizations as he is doing has a heavy price. now that car prices will go up thanks to obama paying back the unions, we can be happy that we have pissed China off and our exports will be hurt. considering we need people to buy our products in other countries, this is tragic. what happened to all of his rhetoric about mending fences with our allies and how it was Bush's fault for ruining our relationships? this is pitiful!

    disrepecting the office as Wilson did should be seen as a wakup call to both parties. Both parties have done this and are not above scrutiny. however, the damn crooks/democrats continue to play their nasty games and blame one party without calling attention to real problem. this is really just another childish game the democrats are playing. they are so great at pointing fingers and lying. i thought it was a great thing during the speech when republicans held up their plans that obama is ignoring. they proved obama is lying once again and apparently obama hates to be caught!

    Beck has another acorn video coming out and I can't wait to watch. unfortunately the crooks in Washington have ignored this corrupt organization and obama's ties to it. it is interesting that just like the van jones issue, this idiot administration is hiding from the acorn problem too! what a big surprise--not! thank goodness one office has dismissed acorn from service.

    it is really funny that liberals come to this site and then don't want to be addressed. i guess they take after obama when he doesn't read the bills he signs in that they don't read the title of this site and understand the purpose of this site before posting. maybe they are stupid enough to think that true republicans will be swayed. LOL! that is a joke. of course, maybe they think specter was a republican too? yeah!
  • AckAck
    JackieM, thanks for all the good words and all. You're a great American.

    Sorry I bailed like I did for awhile but you know how it is. You have held the old fort down quite well girl, keep up the good work.

    PS I am back at home now. Just went on a 6 day golfing trip. Sorry I had to say that to all you clock punchers...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Show some guts, read this, report back. http://www.opednews.com/articles/No-you-re-the-...
  • AckAck
    Fly, I did go to the site. Simply a typical liberal site trying to spew hatred around. Only true liberals read these things. People of integrity and honesty don't read this garbage. Even when they do, you don't think they buy into it do you? Got anything real for me? Tell me about your buddies at ACORN...

    If I wanted to read or hear this stuff, I would tune in to MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS or read the New York Times. It's reall hard for me to understand how you people work. On a conservative web site trying to post trash like that and expecting conservatives to read it. Gotta be the dumbest!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I think we finally have found common ground. Why should I ever think that a Conservative would ever change their thinking about anything? Yesssssssssssssss, that sure explains why you won't read my links, when you won't read or see breaking news on ANY of the major media sources that don't have an admitted Conservative bias like Faux. Amazing that I haven't thought of that before. Kinda like expecting a gay guy to all of a sudden get a stiffie over a chick. lmao
  • AckAck
    Fly, your so called major news idiots only report on the liberal agenda. Why should I waste my time? I can watch FOX, and get the real "FAIR AND BALANCED" news. Where is your news outlets on ACORN? Hummm, maybe they will be forced to report some of it or go out of business...
  • AckAck
    Fly, GOT GUTS?

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageI...;

    Go here and report back.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Yes, unlike yourself I do have the guts to read any link you send me. (see my other comment). Fat Druggie Rush Limppaw whining that the media ignores him and the MILLIONS of Tea Party loonies that eat right out of his slimy paw. He's a paid liar, and It's rediculous to claim the media didn't cover the Washington thing. Hell, I saw it, and the crowd was more like a few thousand. But you slavish droolers to his Bushit would see 90% empty seats in a baseball stadium Tea Party gathering, and believe him when he told you it was a sell out. lmao
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What about that liar Joe Wilson? Told ya that the RNC LIEsites and Wilson lied about illegal aliens being eligible for Obamacare. You WILL read this, right? http://www.opednews.com/articles/No-you-re-the-...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, re: Joe Wilson. You DO know he lied when calling Obama a liar, don't you? Hell, the retractions are all over Con websites, and have been for a week. Don't you even read your own? lmao
  • AckAck
    Nope!
  • Dora
    I suspect someday, we'll have a word to describe Fox's type of reporting, that will stand shoulder to shoulder with 'Yellow Journalism".
    It's no small wonder that Jackie and the other "yup-yup'ers" here react to anything Obama does when they are spoon-fed daily this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35eRxxZ-Ar0&feat...;

    no small wonder they have earned the name: Faux News- We Distort, You Comply.

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=19&media;_out...

    http://mediamatters.org/search/index?qstring=Fo...

    The spoon-fed daily diet of misinformation and radically biased "news" that comes from FOX is well known and documented.
    -the avid readiness of people like Jackie, Bubble-brain, Aliy, and DS to jump to their feet to brow-beat, belittle, name-call and shout down anyone who dares to point out that any item FOX elects to "cover" is suspect. Their reputation as a "news" organization is non-existent because of their continued bias with absolutely no attempt at "fair and balanced".
  • AckAck
    Dora, you gotta stay away from fish brain, he's screwing up your spelling to!
  • Dora
    You can sit there in your little corner and deny, deny, deny- Bubbles- I gave you a non-biased site to fact check- you are so pig-headed in your thinking and afraid to learn that you are dead wrong- on so many levels- you refuse to even check it out.
    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=19&media;_out...

    Fox and wing nut bloggers as well as the Irrational Limbaugh, Girlie Glenn, and other phonies have you suckered. Hannity totally misrepresented Obama's words during the joint session speech- totally turning ass-backwards what Obama said- and you, Bubble-brain bought every word of it. But, guess what? Obama's words- video, and transcripts are all online- read them for yourself. You won't because you will find that yet another of your "great Americans" are not so much so. Hannity flat out lied about what Obama said about insurance companies.
    Fox network opted not to run the speech. Obviously, their choice. No doubt- in part- because they didn't want to have any of you actually LISTEN to what was ACTUALLY being said. Additionally, people like you, require your dose of T & A insipid programming and brain numbing sitcoms.

    You can go ahead and try to defend FOX- but documented proof- every single day, Bubbles- prove you wrong. I will admit though, Bubbles- you fit right in their demographics- you have the right age, intellect, education, and political party. Nobody- NOBODY can truthfully claim Fox to be fair and balanced. I have the dates, times, on what programs, who the hosts were, what they said- what the lie was, complete transcripts of the actual words said, complete quotations and video- not the chopped and formed rubbish they pass off as "the real story"... the list would take a week at least to place here. Even as I write this- Fox is set to "inform" you on how to think for today. And you, you poor ignorant slob- will sit there and soak it all up because you are too damn lazy to lift a finger to find out if what I say is true. You are too afraid to be found out by your own self what a fool you are- what a sucker you are- how you have permitted your own ignorance and bigotry to shut down your thinking process.

    I don't feel sorry for you, Bubbles. You represent what I watched take place in the 50's- the witch-hunts of McCarthyism. You are no different. He was an ignorant, bigoted man, Bubbles. Dangerously ignorant. A man who ruined countless lives- families- and careers. A number of people were hounded so wrongly and endlessly, they committed suicide. This was an ignorant man's legacy, Bubbles. You trace his footsteps.
  • AckAck
    Dora, I can't think of any names you left out in the above post. Thanks, but you know nothing about me. Sorry to inform you that I meet none of the criteria you spoke of. I kind of stay away from stuff like this but you shared some with me sometime back and I tried to tell you a little about me. One more time.

    I am the father of six kids. Five beautiful girls and one hansome boy. I raised them all! I had one daughter who served in the Air Force. I also raised a beautiful grand daughter who is now serving proudly in the US Navy, protecting your ass and your freedom to call me names. Just as I did when I was in uniform.

    Further, I am 10 years into raising the second grand daughter who is half black. Get back in your chair because I did say half black. Her father is a no good son of a gun who chose to go around having kids with little white girls. She is being raised in my house just as all the others were raised, no difference. All the love in the world and never a word to make her think she isn't in her home.

    So, I am also a VERY successful businessman of many, many years. I have never taken a penny that belongs to someone else and I have never been on welfare. Not that I didn't qualify early in life. I am a Republican, my Democrat party left me, I didn't leave it and I am conservative. I am also a christian and I believe very strongly in the US Constituation.

    Now, I suppose all the above makes me a bad person. No, only in your eyes and the eyes of those who hate what I stand for. I only want for me and my country what you should want but you seem to make a conflict out of what I want. How is that? You can't honestly tell me can you? I can only describe your kind in one sentence:

    You hate America and want to destroy it. If you didn't, you would not hate people like me.
  • AckAck
    Dora, you nimkapoop! We do have words that describe FOX's type of reporting - it's called 'FAIR AND BALANCED!" Do I have to explain every little thing to you dummy!
  • AckAck
    Dumb ass fish head can't even spell FOX...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Dora, The mere suggestion that Faux is "fair and balanced" when they are owned by that self avowed Conservative Billionaire Murdock, who directs their propaganda machine, is ludicrous. But sadly, I've come to the conclusion that the JackieM's of the world have no use of TRUTH, and they go to FAUX and listen to fatso Limppaw daily KNOWING that they'll get their dose of lies. They will NEVER read the links we post here, and will never even address the comments we make here. I call this MINDFUGGEDNESS.
  • Dora
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w39FnpuMRfo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi42gRAsmUM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYA9ufivbDw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kttr8srutJY&feat...;
  • AckAck
    Dora Lawhora, I'll tell you just like I told Fish Head, why do you waste you time putting that crap on here? I don't read it and I know none of my Great American Conservative friends don't. We just look at it and laugh.
  • Dora
    The Faux "News" continues it's dishonesty in their attempts to over-inflate the numbers for the Glenn Beck hyped weekend gathering in D.C. While official estimates are in the range of 60,000 participants- Fox individuals (as well as Rush Windbag) have laughingly represented the number at from 1-2 million.
    In addition to their inability to report actual news and facts- apparently they found it necessary to doctor photographs in their attempt to convince their cult followers that Beck's and FOX's turnout for this hodgepodge "event" was overwhelming and successful. Actual photographs clearly display the bigotry represented heavily in attendance ... hate speak and signage displaying ignorance -about the issues, how to spell, religious bigotry, baseless fear mongering, race-baiting, and Hitler/socialist/fascist/marxist/communist everything.
    One could just as easily have viewed the participants on a B/W television with little loss of actual representation.
    There is no doubt that people are upset about a number of things regarding the current economic situation - but the stated point of this "gathering" was to bring about that unity that Americans felt following the 9/11 attacks- instead, and as usual- the continued divisiveness was pursued heavily by those with a substantial lack of accurate information on the issues that feed at the trough of disinformation as put out daily by the right wing nuts, Faux Noise, and fools like Glenn Beck. There is good reason why Glenn Beck has lost over 50% of his previous advertising revenue.
  • AckAck
    I suppose you were there...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Dora, The bigger the lie from buzz cut Bushitters like Beck, the more they love it. After watching a few seconds of Beck lying through his teeth that "I really want to see our President succeed," after Limppaw has said repeatedly that he hopes Obama will fail is mockery.
  • Dora
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-si...

    Fox News... YOU LIE
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What's the big scoop on Acorn? This better be worth my time, and I want a link-no cut n paste.
  • AckAck
    Fish, I don't give a screw about you or your time. Further, I don't care what you post on here. What I post on here is not for your benefit. So, BUG OFF!
  • Dora
    Some say Glenn Beck was once a woman. He has not denied it.
    Limbaugh has not come forth to deny he misused vegetables in a very deviant manner.
    Jackie will deny that she wears used underwear- but who can believe her? Besides, I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
  • AckAck
    Dora, as far as you being useful to society, you're about as worthless as tits on a bore hog! The bore don't need them and society don't need you...

    Everytime you open your mouth, flies drop dead. Seems to me you could at least get a little part of the message - YOUR SIDE IS LOSING. Your childish remarks about talk radio hosts are not effective anymore. The host are more effective. The tea parties are working. YOU LOSE... Not only are they working, the numbers of people in attendance at these gatherings is mind boggling! I don't know what you will do now that ACORN is going out of business. And maybe your president to. Oh well, there's always the alternative route...

    By the way, those kiddy, cute little words your buddy, fry fish uses such as LIEsites and FAUX news are about as useless as you are and even dumber sounding. About all you two have left is your colorful language and telling more lies.
  • JackieM
    Ack--I'm so glad that you are back. I thank God for Fox News and the journalists who caught acorn with their hand in the cookie jar. even though the corrupt democrats in Washington refused to hear the truth for a long while, in the end they couldn't ignore acore any longer. hmm! now i wonder if obama's role in all of this will come to light! we know he is involved in the sister company of acorn so i think this is only the beginning of this exposure of corruption. obama's association with these people is telling of who he is but those radical supporters of his still won't believe it! i am not surprised!
  • AckAck
    JackieM, liberals have no defense against FOX NEWS... It's bigger than all of them including BHO.

    Yes, ACORN is in big trouble but as usual the liberals won't come out and report it. They just run and hide like good little liberals always do and try to justify it somehow. If you are not a Democrat and a Liberal, you don't fit in with those nuts in anyway. That's real fine with me, I don't want to fit in there.

    BHO's hand prints are all over ACORN and everything they have done so we will see how all this turns out. The conservative movement, and I DO MEAN MOVEMENT, has to keep the pressure on. Next year the democrats will start crawling around and trying to do things to keep their jobs. I have a real good feeling that this MOVEMENT has just begun. I also believe that most of the democrats are already out of a job when it comes election time in 2010.

    That'll probably shut ole Dora and Fish Brain up, huh?
  • flyfshr1cd
    So much about the lie from RNC LIEsites that National Insurance companies can't sell across state lines. http://www.gohealthinsurance.com/insurance/stat...
  • amber3
    Good Conversation. A healthy debate without name calling.
  • billyLevine
    Dora,

    Do you ever think before you speak? There is something called "Consequential Thinking." It's fairly simple. You ask yourself, "What are the possible consequences if I say or do this?" You're not stupid. If I'm not billyLevine right now, will you come to my funeral?
  • AckAck
    billyLevine, where the hell you at man? Wake your ass up and get back here, I need help! This Dora bitch and this flyfish nut case is killing me... HELP!

    My goat just had a kid. GET IT?
  • AckAck
    BillyLevine, I guess by now you have figured out what a friggin nut case fish fry is.
  • AckAck
    BillyLevine, you kill me man! You got the date all wrong. I don't know if you have noticed it or not but I have been out of pocket. I have been gone a week and attended MLSmith's funeral. Didn't see you or Dora there. I figured for sure I would see her there, I thought her and ole ML got it on a time or two. Did you ever hear of that? If not, sit me down sometime and I will tell you all about it. However, I noticed you been doing pretty good for yourself.

    You got the data right about the BC. I got a copy of it and can't wait for the papers to headline it. No, I sure as hell don't flyfish, I catch big CAT FISH! Fly fishing is for cream puffs. You know, those P R E T E N D E R S... Different colored thong wearers and all. Never catch me with a fly fish in my hand - come to think of it, I don't like flys either.

    It is really good that you are active once again after having survived the bullet and all. Glad you're back man...
  • Dora
    You may name yourself anything you wish- no skin off my nose or my potato.

    By the way- one cannot purchase cigarettes with food stamps as you mentioned above.
    Not booze of any sort, not toilet paper, not cat food, not matches, not charcoal, not disposable diapers, not paper plates, none of these and any other non-food item that you might mention can be purchased with "food stamps" - in fact, as far as I know, they don't issue paper "food stamps" now- but rather a debit-type card is issued- onto which the "food stamp" benefits are deposited at the beginning of the month- the "deposit" date varies - in this state, it's based upon the last digit of their soc. sec. number.

    feel free to carry on using whatever name you decide upon this week.
  • billyLevine
    flyfshr1cd,

    You're under a bad sign, flyfshr. Let me help you up...it looks like you're stuck on one of those links. Proof means nothing. You're wasting your time. If proof meant anything at all...well, here's the list -
    1. Half the judges in this country would be in jail.
    2. The Lone Ranger would be selling flavored ice on the corner of 125th and Lex.
    3. Dora would demand to see my driver's license.
    4. The Weather Channel would be under federal indictment.
    5. Abu Ghraib would really be a luxury hotel.
    6. Bobby Zimmerman would still be Bobby Zimmerman.

    You are forgetting the real reason why people won't use your links. People are afraid of links, and they should be. The way you present yourself, most folks would think your links are roadside bombs. Those SAM's you fire scare people.
  • flyfshr1cd
    billy, Here's the actual bill for Obamacare that will allow me to separate the wheat from the chaff. http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Well, billy Just so my meaning is not lost or misconstrued, I need to explain my request for links. If you've followed my posts at all, you know I refer to sites like this as RNC LIEsites, which along with talk radio and Faux News, is where most Cons get their "News". This is not breaking news at all, and is anything but "fair and balanced", and ranges from spin/twisting to downright lies. When I post a link like the one for Obama's HR3200, the actual language of the bill is entirely objective. The list of outright lies are endless for Obamacare, and the facts are there for all thinking folks, who can handle the truth to see. Without a printed source, one would argue endlessly with the factless JackieM's of the world. To demonstrate to you how simple and conclusive this is, just ask me to disprove to you any of the many, many lies about Obamacare that you've heard. Examples might be: No freedom to chose you own Doc., "death panels", eligibility for illegals to enroll in the government provided health insurance option, Medicare for seniors (that Obamacare would extend to those under 65) doesn't work. You say that people are afraid to use links, but the Cons often copy n paste, or use links from RNC LIEsites. The actual bill below will prove the lies about Obamacare. Pick any, billy.
  • Dora
    and "Billy" alias ML Smith- why the name change?
  • Dora
    Jackie's response to anything and anyone who does not agree with her twisted thinking is to call them an "idiot". How educated is that?
    Her answer to those visiting this site not willing to sit in her "yup-yup circle" is to invite them to leave. How very christian of her.
    Her lack of any real source for news affords the luxury of maintaining her ignorance.

    idiot:
    An unlearned, ignorant, or simple person, as distinguished from the educated; an ignoramus.
    A human being destitute of the ordinary intellectual powers, whether congenital, developmental, or accidental; commonly, a person without understanding from birth; a natural fool-

    carry on chicken littles of the world. you are so amusing. ignorant, but amusing.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Dora Right on about Jackie. She is so tragically impaired.
  • flyfshr1cd
    When the going gets tough, the Bushitters walk. Prove me wrong with a link from your favorite liesite, I dare ya!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Billy, Keep up the good work. I appreciate that you're not a rabid drooler like many here. I'm glad you agree that we need laws to prevent fraud, even though you must be aware that for 8 years of Bushit, and even now, the Conservatives are entirely against the type of oversight that caused the Wall Street and Banking ripoff and recession, right? Do you realize that Obama is putting in those very same controls that you ask for in both Obamacare, and the Wall Street and banking regulations? As for the need for National Healthcare, do you know how broken our health care delivery system is now? Check this out: http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/newsroom/s... 47 million uninsured, and everytime they walk into the emergency room, all that treatment get's written off by the hospitals and Docs and passed on to all the insured with higher rates. So the LIEsites argue that illegal aliens get treated (20 million), and that many more millions can afford health insurance and won't buy it. All true, I can tell you that as a Health Insurance Specialist here in Idaho for 18 years. But so what? They wish to obfuscate the issue. ALL 47 million count when determining the extend of the damage the uninsured causes med inflation. Can't you see that? So you can't solve that problem without getting them all insured and you can't solve the abuse of many Insurance Companies w/o regulations and cost containment with a government board of experts. All three of these problems will be solved with HR3200, or something close to it. So get of those poisoned wells of dis and mis information at RNC run LIEsites. As George Carlin use to say "they're bad for ya". Furthermore, you will notice that I continually ask all here for the links that they use for Obama bashing LIEsites, which they don't dare give me.If you give me one, I will prove eitehr an outright lie, or obvious spin. Put me to work, billy.
  • flyfshr1cd
    billyLevine, Gotta tell you that I really like your posts, and your refreshing humility. Also, if you're a fellow flyfisher, you can't be all that bad of a guy. lol So, when you say"what the heck do I know" about Obamacare, unlike all the other Conservatives who SWEAR they know all the lies they read at their LIEsites, I'm hopeful you'll actually read my links that I've posted here repeatedly. OBTW, ask me anything you wish about flyfishing here in Idaho, or the Trout you see me holding. http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS... I offer the actual bill above so that you can see for yourself that no Conservative here will ever suggest a page and section number as "proof" that it's a bad bill in any way. When facts talk, Bushitters walk. www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck This is an easy reading link that dispels the LIEsites and the liars here have posted about Obamacare. I'd really appreciate your comments after reading either of these links. Tight Lines!
  • billyLevine
    flyfshr1cd,

    I read your links - thanks. As you probably know by now, I am not a big fan of Obama. I understand the math behind the bill and it's true that more money is not the solution. Tighter controls, more oversight and widespread re-distribution of benefits can actually reduce healthcare spending by at least 40%. That 40% proofs the equation that less can equal more by reducing opportunities for fraud and abuse common to entitlement programs. For those who scoff at mathematical solutions to quantitative problems, they would be well advised to read up on equilibrium theory and its applications to the science of economics. Anyone who has ever de-fragmented their hard drives should know how this works.

    I played with the numbers and found hundreds of billions in redundancy and misappropriation. Examples are endless and include things like:
    1. a medical transportation program that has no post authorization verifiers, allowing abusers the luxury of subsidized taxi transport to OTB's, sales of food stamps for cash used to purchase scratch off lottery tickets, enormous profits from sale of Medicaid subsidized opiates and sedatives...the list goes on and on.
    2. Full coverage for Tylenol at $8.00 per tablet when prescribed in hospitals.
    3. Zero randomized checks and verifiers

    Nationalized healthcare that reduces abuse allows for greater choice (of physicians and other providers) and access to technologically advanced diagnostics and treatments. However, the success of sucha program depends on tight controls, and I am not confident that Obama won't write in toothless monitoring like he did with the banks. When the thieves rewarded themselves with money taken from our pockets, he said he was "appalled." As a nation, we cannot afford the price of "apalled." Now, Mrs. Abernathy who is 86 and lives next door can be apalled, but not the Preident. He doesn't have that luxury. I don't trust Obama or the people he'll appoint to administer the program.

    HR3200 should be scrapped. We don't need National Healthcare. We need federally enforced and monitored health care laws that come down fast and hard on redundancy and abuse. Every day I see junkies puffing away on asthma inhalers...and cigarettes bought with food stamp profits. while they que up to cash their welfare checks.
  • flyfshr1cd
    billy, Hear the flap on the weekend from hooligan "hero" Joe Wilson calling our president a liar when Obama said illegal aliens are ineligible for Government insurance through HR3200? Wilson is the liar, not Obama! http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text
  • JackieM
    I listen to idiot obama and it is easy to find his lies. as a matter of fact, go back on this site about three months before the election and you will see the lies unfolding as obama was saying them in his rhetoric. just because you don't do your research doesn't mean i don't do mine. you are a stupid SOB who only looks at one of the four bills and doesn't listen to obama and the legal opinions that are out there. i don't have to site a damn thing for you fools. common sense kicks in when i hear him speak. tell him to prove that he has created jobs. tell him to prove the savings from medicare. prove that obama is telling the truth. there are more evidence that he is not. of course, common sense and history proves it also. you, van jones and acorn are just close buds!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, Once again you ramble, without anything to back up what you say. You have no facts, or any specifics other than you've heard Obama lie and you have common sense. Fact is that you have unsubstantiated opinions, and to ask me to prove to you that Obama is telling the truth, is like me asking you to prove to me that you don't screw Orangutans. Maybe your senile, and I'm truly sorry if that's the case. No matter, I'm done with you, dingbat.
  • JackieM
    you are definitley an idiot. prove the deficit numbers and that the democrats had nothing to do with them. prove that obama didn't support the tarp. his hands are dirty. to prove your ignorance, Bush DID NOT cause the housing crisis. If you do your research, you will find that democrats did. a more recent leader was clinton. what did Bush ask the congress to do on many occasions? quick spewing garbage! no one is listening to you. this is a conservative site and you don't provide any facts to back up your crap. you are a punk! liberals don't have common sense so they have to keep asking questions with obvious answers. so if obama is going to find all of this money in medicare, prove it. history shows it won't happen. since his "stimulus" failed to provide jobs as he promised and the unemployment rate is higher than he promised, obama has no credability. keep it up. you, jones, pelosi, reid, frank, acorn and all of the rest of the garbage in washington get along great because you ignore the obvious! oh yeah i forgot the unions you guys are in bed with also!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, Prove that you don't screw orangutans. DO NOT ADDRESS ME EVER AGAIN!
  • billyLevine
    HAPPY NATION
    National Healthcare? Does anyone really consider the mess we're in? Heck no - we're a happy nation. The shopping malls are packed with people on a spending rampage, emptying the shelves of DVD players, TVs, camcorders, I-Pods, cameras, computers, appliances, accessories and accessories for accessories; throwing down credit cards at the checkouts as if we were in a boom year.It's like a bad science fiction movie - "The Visa Card Zombies." People don't understand that they will be sucking on the tailpipe of as much as 13 trillion dollars of illiquid and toxic debt...forever.

    We must be out of our minds. I can almost understand why nobody wants to hear it - we subsidized corrupt financial institutions with money we don't have...money we borrowed from them when they pretended to have money to lend; money that never existed to begin with.
    This is old news, though. The British banks tried to scam Lincoln when the Civil War drained the economy, offering 37% interest loans backed by recycled credit. Abe told them to get lost. “These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people..." he said in a speech to the Illinois legislature in 1837. He didn't borrow a penny. Instead, he printed new money, known as "greenbacks," and the economy flourished. Thomas Jefferson had it figured out as well. "A government does not need to borrow its national currency from bankers merely pretending to have money.” Isn't that how we got into this mess?

    This is truly frightening. I've become an economic alarmist, riding a mule through town yelling "The crash is coming...the crash is coming!" Am I really Ralph Nader? My thinking is clearly unsound...at any speed.


    Okay, I figured it out. Tomorrow, I'm going shopping. I will buy as much as I can...things I don't even need, and I'll charge all of it. I watched those people in the mall, and they were happy. I want to be happy too. So what if I spend money I don't have? Doesn't everybody? §
  • flyfshr1cd
    Spend & Charge. You're right on. That's exactly what Bush did, and encouraged America to do. He ran up a 1.3 trillion deficit with nothing to show for it, at the same time, he allowed credit for those already bankrupt, and allowed predatory loans for those with limited income, and screwed the middle class with no regulation for the credit card companies, who write new penalties anytime they please. Obama has done away with this, that's why the the RNC spends billions at LIEsites to do him in.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ralph Nader billyLevine, You're thinking is completely sound about the economy that Bush has left us, and the damn foolishness most Americans have exhibited with their buy now, pay tomorrow stupidity. However, make no mistake about 8 years of "no government regulations" that the worst president in the history of our great nation has wrought. With trillions looted by Wall Street, Bankers and other Shylocks at the expense of the millions of us responsible savers with 401K's and IRA's, the piper now must be paid. The lesson should be painfully clear regarding what has been 8 years OF ANYTHING BUT CONSERVATIVE FISCAL POLICIES. Captalism without regulations=piracy. Our president needs all the support we can muster.
  • JackieM
    I'm with you but it is because people are selfish and stupid! let's call it what it is! this is a sympton of the Dumbing Down of America disease! Most people don't care about the consequences of their actions until it is too late. they definitely don't care about how their actions affect others. we saw this with the election of obama, the housing crisis, etc. it is sad!
  • billyLevine
    JackieM,

    That was one heckuva "but" there, Jackie. By the way, one symptom is the
    mindless acceptance of catch phrases, like "Dumbing Down." People are
    allowing themselves to be brainwashed into thinking that stupidity is the
    problem, and of course it's always someone else who is dumbing down.

    Who runs this country, anyway? The media? I always thought we ran the
    country. Boy oh boy, was I ever dumbed down! Totally! Awesome, too.

    We criticize government for its inability to get things done. How many
    people are here on this site? We can't agree on anything, unless there's a
    "but" attached. Can you imagine all of us writing a "White Paper?"
    Impossible, right?

    I am not setting myself above anyone else here. I contribute my share of
    hypocritical and useless comments. We're not solving any problems.

    We're not taking a stand for anything! But we could, and the fact that we
    don't even try...that is sad. Until Americans have a VOICE that can be heard
    and respected, nothing will get better. A great deal will get worse.

    Do you know what the conservative voice is here? Well it's the same as it is
    for the liberals. "I'm right and you're wrong." That will accomplish a lot.
    Collectively, we're nothing more than a bunch of lazy, self righteous slobs.

    We could do it. I'm ready to throw down and write my conservative %^$ off.
    What is our mission? What is our message? Will conservatives right the good
    ship America by letting the world know they are the dominant tweeters?

    For God's sakes...let's DO something!!!!!
  • flyfshr1cd
    billyLevine, Thank God, I've actually found a thinking Conservative. See, the rest of them have never connected the dots of what the 8 years of the "culture of corruption" has done to our great nation, and the great depression that began last year. The Bushwhacked here are a perfect example of denial, and no doubt were astounded when Obama won in a landslide. I can assure you that I will back up anything I say with factual links, and logical arguements. I will also read carefully to what anyone here writes that's not schoolboy insults, and I will also read anyone's cut n pastes or links and comment back. On the other hand, when they insult me to the point of getting my Irish up, they get the back of me hand!
  • JackieM
    you are definitely entitled to your opinion! however, we need to hold people accountable for their actions. the Dumbing Down of America syndrome is shown when obama clearly spelled out his plans for America and had fancy words to go along with it and people bought into it. people bought into the hope and faith crap that had no substance behind it. then there were liberals/democrats who had the nerve to come to this site and attack me and others because we could back up what we said by business experience, economics and simple math along with common sense. because they wanted to go on "hope," we have this mess now! i was very vocal on some of Bush's actions that I didn't agree with but you won't see the liberals/democrats doing the same. I want what is best for this country, which is to follow what its founders intended and the Constitution. I disagree that we are not taking a stand. There are a lot of us that have had the same position and have continued to follow the principals of the Republican Party. I don't see a difference in conservative democrats and liberals any more. they are all the same--liberals. even the blue dogs are pansies! What is happening right now is sickening! Most of the time there is a right and wrong but a lot of people choose to ignore it!
  • billyLevine
    JackieM,

    I cannot disagree; I'm tryink like famous blimp commander, boot mine Spell Chicken issondablink. Sorry, sometimes I slip into tongues for no reason at all. Yes, I was wary of Obama long before the election. Get this! UC even published "A Walk in the Woods with Barrack" as an article. UC has great memory. They remembered NOT to pay me.

    Jackie, I really do believe what you said. It's just that if I get on that stupidity kick, I am usually the one to get booted. I've never been kind to morons. I think it's genetic. But don't you see the potential in what I proposed? This is buckshot. We need to be on the same page; focused, with a loud and clear mission and message to match. It's basic marketing strategy. Okay, maybe you're trying not to hear this, but hey - we have a product and more people need to buy it. Do you think a newcomer here (on the fence) would be able to make any sense out of the chaos here?

    For instance, why do we NOT bother to take newbies under our wings? For the most part, we either insult them or ignore them. Sure, people say idiotic things, but they can be taught. What should we teach them about our mission, and how should we present that info. Attention spans are short. We have to get them fast. You said it yourself. "...a lot of people choose to ignore it!" Heck, Jackie, what is "it?" And aren't you impressed with the hordes of newcomers here?

    Ah...never mind. What did Obama spend that 16 million on? Marketing. MARKETING!!! I NEVER LIKED HIM BUT I KNEW HE WOULD WIN. Obama sold himself to Americans. What makes us any different?
  • flyfshr1cd
    billyLevine on JackieM's "it". JackieM said..........a lot of people choose to ignore it". Who wouldn't when you spout your opinions, and criticisms like "dumb liberals", "Liar Obama" and the like, but refuse to name the SOURCES for what you represent as facts? Right on billy. Opinions are like azholes, we all have one, and without anything to back them up with other than "we all know", "it's common knowledge at this site", "if you had any brain you'd know" and all the rest, you can't expect any newbee to think your azhole's any better than mine.
  • JackieM
    I don't disagree with you on the fact that it would be nice to teach people! However, I've been on this site for about a year or so and have found that the liberals/democrats that come here are not looking for facts and explanations of our views. The first few posts start out innocent enough and then after you spend your time laying out nothing but facts that are easily proven, i.e., economic theory, business principals, etc., they slam you with some comment similar to, "you are a liar, this is what obama said and therefore it is true," blah, blah, blah. It happens every time. They have nothing but his rhetoric to go on and if that doesn't work because you can prove that he has not told the truth, they try to throw you off by taking personal digs at you and then move to the old standby Bush. You know the type because we saw it for the millionth time here when an idiot called someone he didn't know (me) a redneck and who knows what (I quit reading the post). You would think those nasty creatures would come up with something new. Now if you defend yourself, you are called a racist, hate monger or anything else of no value or substance. That is what liberals/democrats do best! It has been repeated here so many times that I can predict what is going to happen. There have been many conservatives on this site that have tried to explain why obama's plans were wrong for this country. They did a great job in explaining their conservative views. As a matter of fact, they were accurate in everything they said, but it never matters. The insults from the left begin!

    I just hope that some of the younger generation are smart enough not take the liberal views that they are taught in school as fact and do research for themselves. It is quite possible they will find this site and see obama for what he really is! I know some people who saw through their liberal professors and learned valuable lessons when they started to ask questions. It is no surprise that they are now conservatives!

    So I won't apologize for coming down hard on proven morons and wanting to express my anger at fools who are responsible for the shape this country is in now. I won't apologize for seeing my friends who are well-qualified educated professionals unemployed with families. Some are on the brink of losing everything they have and can't find a job. I won't apologize for giving a damn about others and holding the people responsible for the continued destruction of our economy!

    obama used lies to market himself. if we use facts, liberals/democrats don't like it. now we could resort to huge smoke screens like obama uses--you know--"hope," etc. he is a snake in the grass who has used car salesman tactics to sell damaged goods. that is why he can be accurately called bagdad bob, the misinformation minister. i prefer to be blunt in my posts with the understanding that the liberals/democrats aren't smart enough to figure them out since they have no reasoning skills!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, Empty bag of wind is all that comes to mind. Not only are you factless with your political views, you have the unmitigated gall to suggest that I've offered nothing but "empty rhetoric" while you've laid out the facts about what Obama said, and your knowledge of business principals and economic theory. You know nothing of either, and all you do is rant lies about what Obama said, and what's in HR3200. Point of fact, having nothing to do with what you think you know, you've never shown a link to support anything you've claimed, while I've done so repeatedly, and you have NEVER commented or even mentioned what my facts are. So, one more time, I show the link for HR3200 Obamacare, and ask you to support ANY of the lies about what's in the bill by citing page and section numbers. I'm NOT asking for your opinion of what's there. If you find what you're looking for, simple cut n paste what you wish, or cite the page and section numbers. You also get a chance to show that Amber's wrong about you being full of hate for those who don't see things the way you do, OR you could spout vitriolic rants again making Amber dead on. Your ball!
  • amber3
    Listen to yourself jackie you so full of hate for people who dont see things the way you do.
  • JackieM
    I agree that you liberals/conservatives are so full of hate. that is your problem! for the stupid, i'll give you a good example. obama said for you idiots to get up in the republicans faces if we disagreed with the stimulus. get a life and start paying attention to obama's bullshit.
  • billyLevine
    Um...UC? Disqus? Is it cast in stone that no one can like what I write? Why don't you just put "Dislike Immensely" next to "Report," for me. Can you give me a hint? Do I need to say I don't like black people?

    .....................................ALL LIBERALS ARE MORONS..........................

    Honestly, there is something mighty strange about this. Are my arms too short to box with God? Is that it?
  • jdguy
    We have the upper hand, we have the medias attention and we have the backing of the country. I am just going to admit. I don't want a black president!
  • amber3
    the true nature of the far right
  • billyLevine
    Amber 3

    You must be mad. I guess sarcasm just flies over you like a flock of geese. You need a shower.
  • amber3
    oh now its sarcasm, at least have the guts to back up you own statement
  • amber3
    What a bunch of macho nonsense, a 70 year old man talking about killing people. No wonder you hicks like guns, it can turn any senior citizen into a tough guy.
  • billyLevine
    Are you talkin' to me?

    I'm 36. Where the hell? Oh well. Yes, I'm 76.
  • billyLevine
    And so it is, amber3, that these old bones get ready for work. It was alright talking with you. I mean that. And if you throttled back just a notch, well...goodnight.
  • flyfshr1cd
    billyLevine, Thanks for disclosing that you're Jewish, but don't get too surprised if your fellow Cons don't put you on ignore. See, they've never been too tolerant of anyone who's not white, Anglo Protestant, and Christian. Fact is, intolerance is one of the things it is to be conservative. I'm grew up back East, so I knew right off the bat what a "Lavine" is, but I doubt whether Ack and the others did. Don't be too surprised if you get the cold shoulder from all but Amber and myself, but DO keep asking yourself what's so special about being a hateful "good Christian" conservative. More later on that, billy.
  • billyLevine
    This bothered me so much I traded shifts. I guess some of us, and I am one, forget the power of words. Especially here. We can't see expression, posture, body language...all we have to go on is words.Most of the time I kick myself for forgetting and taking the easy way...not trying to convey what it feels like to live life on somebody else's terms. These are mine:
    ================
    His Name was Biscuit
    ================
    A Beagle...I think. He was Barry’s dog. For all I know, Biscuit might have been 15 years-old. He walked on three legs and made noises you wouldn’t ever want to hear, anywhere. And he followed us everywhere.

    Anyway, where I grew up, there was no such thing as anti-Semitism. Actually, there weren’t enough Jews for anti-Semitism; me and Barry were the only ones. Our parents were very casual about it - mine never even acknowledged the holidays. Barry’s did.

    Basketball saved us. Barry shot the lights out. He was addicted to it. I was his enabler. I made sure the ball got to him where he wanted it. In 11th grade, we made bets. For every assist I got a dollar. If he missed I paid him three. Coach found out and things were bad for us at home for awhile.

    Barry kind of went nuts after our senior year. He joined the Navy. I had nothing better to do so I went with him. He worked his way up to a $16,000,000 Phantom. I chewed a lot of gum and worked closer to the ground.

    I figured him for dead every day. He rarely spoke about it. Every sortie was a day at the office. Once, just once, he told me.

    “I have two windows. The real one lets me see something that looks like a postage stamp floating on rolling waves. The Virt is like a video game. All I do is keep the cursor parallel to the line. It gets harder as I get closer - at 50 feet I lock everything down and stand on it. I pray and thank God for grappling hooks. Don’t ever mention this but I cried after my solo. A colonel came over.”

    “It’s not nirvana, but it sure helps the laundry business, right kid?”

    Biscuit would have been proud. Barry never speaks about it. I understand why and I keep my mouth shut. We all have our demons.

    Amber is always there to remind us.
  • flyfshr1cd
    http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/09/how_joe...
  • amber3
    I have read your two last posts and i must confess, i dont really understand what you are trying to say. I will reread them again later. I did catch that you were upset by our conversation. I am sorry to have upset you, please do not loose any rest over this
  • billyLevine
    amber3,

    Why, that was the nicest thing I've heard in awhile - thank you! I slept fine.

    Amber, I am most definitely not a racist, I hate killing, and I don't lie about things like that. I do lie - sometimes I have to. But I have no reason to lie to you.

    Sometimes my sarcasm bites me in the _and I usually wind up regretting it. But that guy, well, he deserved what he got. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I figured by setting him up to look like an out and out racist pig creep, he'd go away. That part turned out okay. Trouble is I ended up sounding the same way. Sorry for being so obscure.
  • amber3
    I have reread your posts and i think i now understand. You have gone well out of you way to clear things up. I gladly except your apology and appreciate you excepting mine. Please keep posting, and in future ,when i read them i will look a little deeper. Until then Kind regards Amber.
  • billyLevine
    Amber,

    One thing about Urbanconservative - it is the only place I know of on the net where people actually bond, even when they disagree vehemently. The only other places I have experienced this are at work, (where we all depend on each other for our lives) and in the military. (where sooner or later the guy you hate drops a sniper you didn't see)

    I made a list yesterday - my "best friends" kinda' thing, and 2/3 of them started out as people I really couldn't stand.

    Amber, I am not all that or even all that political, but there's one thing I think of often. When it's my time, I want to go out knowing I've been true to myself and had some positive impact on somebody. The things I write here are mostly about human nature and if there's one thing I always hammer, it's my belief that human nature is intrinsically good. You'll probably wonder about that as the termites ease out of the woodwork to let me know I'm a *&%#!ing ^*("@%$#&*:***/888."

    The power of human nature at its best is awesome. It's just a little sad that we must compromise our humanity sometimes. Things like war, terrorism and money force the betrayal of our souls. It's like anything else - after the first time it gets easier. I despise the part of me that uses words as weapons. A clinical type would say I'm extremely insecure. I am. My life is a 10 car crash on the New Jersey Turnpike. I feel like I'm always a few miles behind the wreck, knowing I'm going nowhere until the mess gets cleaned up.

    I don't mind waiting anymore. There's always someone who makes me laugh and another who makes me cry. That's life.

    Ack Ack...well, I started out hating him until I started paying attention to what he was really saying. Ack is a good man, through and through. I don't always agree with him, but if I needed someone to take my back, guys like Ack (I'm rhyming accidentally) are the ones I look for.

    Thank you for trying to decode my babble. I'll try to be more direct.

    Have a nice day.
  • flyfshr1cd
    billyLevine, Thanks for the intimate self disclosures. I agree with much of what you say about agreeing to disagree with respect, UNLESS you don't happen to be a Con here, and that means you must be stupid, a lib on welfare, a RADICAL environmentalist, socialist, and always a liar. See the rules of the game for the Cons like Ack here, is never to read a link I post, and always expect that I read their links (which I do). When I ask a question about what they post, or the link they gave, I don't get a responsive answer, and usually get insults for my stupidity for not accepting at first blush the lies from LIEsites like this one. A perfect example is the Obamacare bill HR3200 that I will show below as a link, for anyone to cite the page or section # to prove the various lies abounding about the bill. No one can show me ANY of the claims made after telling me "it's right there in the bill". This proves that Conservatives by definition are closed minded, judgemental, and never willing to read proof that they have been Bushchitted all their lives. Let's no forget what Bush told them; "If you're not for us, you're against us". This coming from the man who told us he was going to unite the nation 9 years ago. Comments? http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • billyLevine
    flyfshr1cd,

    I forgot that you asked for comments.
    I believe I can understand your frustration.
    HR3200 is an opiated version of a "yet to be" tightened plan for healthcare. I'd call it Hip #3200 - a yearling at auction with a suspect pedigree. 3200 looks to be built for blazing speed. Obamacare's Hip #3200 is named Quickfix. Unfortunately, Quickfix spits out the bit early, bouncing everything back to private insurers.

    My comment? Ditch the bill, ditch the plan and leave things as they are. The alternative is economic suicide. That's my read, but what the heck do I know?
  • billyLevine
    flyfshr1cd,

    One thing is certain - no one can accuse you of not being direct.

    I'm not sure I understand "Unless you don't happen to be a Con here..." If the word "don't" is accidental and can be removed from the sentence, I think I understand. If you meant the sentence "as is" then you are telling me I'm stupid, a socialist, a lib on welfare, a Radical environmentalist and always a liar. I might have a hard time being open to that, but I am going to assume you didn't mean it that way. I hope not.

    If you've read my posts, I think it's pretty clear where I stand and its your choice to interpret them any way you please. If you can, try to keep in mind the fact that I am highly flawed and severely damaged - my life experiences have not been good. I don't want sympathy. It's all just part of who I am; frequently wrong, sometimes irrational but always willing to admit my mistakes.

    The "con" thing baffles me - how could anybody gain from that?

    I guess it's hard to categorize me. Most of my views are conservative, but a few are not. I don't hate anybody, regardless of their political views. I don't stereotype, either. My partner and best friend says he's a liberal, but many of his opinions are clearly conservative. I respect him for who he is as a man - not for his views.

    Lastly, I am not well versed politically. There's a whole lot I don't know, but I'm willing to learn. That's one of the reasons why I come here. This site is also an outlet for me and I need one. In that sense I'm a dryly sarcastic Esso Bee. I'm trying real hard to tone that down.

    Well, that's pretty much who I am and as far as what I stand for, it's the America I knew as a kid, and despite everything, America is still a man made miracle. I'd fight to the death to preserve that.
  • billyLevine
    Amber 3

    I am totally dedicated to everything in that statement. And if you can show us where I threatened the President's life...please, sally forth.
  • billyLevine
    Oh, and by the way, Amber, I have defended his life, your life and everyone's on this page...more than once. It wasn't fun. Now, try to read a bit in between the lines...imagine a writer who literally smokes the Internet. I may have my faults, but racism and that other thing - NEVER! Oh, my goodness, look at all of the people attacking me! Ouchh.
  • amber3
    you are just a coward with a gun
  • JackieM
    the only cowards are the following. a "leader" who refuses to apologize to the American people for hiring a racist and other unethical people and hides on "vacation" until the smoke clears while lying to the American people time and time again about healthcare and other issues along with the democrats who won't really face their supporters and tell them the truth. they would rather hide behind rhetoric as their cult leader does! those are the true cowards and their supporters are just plain stupid. oh yeah, $1 + $1 does not equal $900M. keep letting the misinformation minister obama tell you that. LOL!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, For your convenience, this is the real HR3200. Since you know business principals, you should have the comprehension of what you read here, and easily cite the page and section number to prove that our President lied about health care, and what's in the bill.http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS-111hr3200IH.pdf
  • billyLevine
    jdguy,

    I'm right there with you - yeah. Sure, I want a black president too. So what's the point? You want a black president? Okay. Go out and get one.

    [Oh boy! ]
  • amber3
    Where are you now jackie? Are these you people? The more get to know conservatives the more I am troubled by them. Not all, but the majority of conservatives posting on this sight are dangerous radicals.
    Alex likes to torture and kill his enemies.
    Ack likes to kill and maim his enemies which include liberals.
    billy and dguy are proud racists
    And billy just joked about killing the president in what he thought was a clever code
    In short just a lousy group of human beings. Conservatives would do well denounce this kind of rhetoric.
  • billyLevine
    It was all about jdguy,
    My attempt to pretend agreement,
    With the opposite of what he said,
    Went over everyone's head.
    So, my inept and foolish try,
    To blast away at idiot guy,
    Turned into self appeasement -
    I guess I need to simplify.
  • JackieM
    amber3--i think you need a reading and comprehension class. actually you can sit in with obama because he doesn't like to read and comprehend the bills he is signing and that is a huge problem for most people. it is just like a liberal to find things that aren't there. do you guys have a class that teaches people to have overactive imaginations? personally, i wouldn't join the group unless i was a nut and wanted to become a damn liberal but i guess other mentally ill people may. you have the nerve to talk about racism and support obama? give me a break! you are a huge hypocrit! you and van jones must be buddies and go to dinner with hussein.
  • billyLevine
    Ack Ack
    CC:jdguy

    Anybody thinking of fly fishin? I reckon I'll wade on in there. Hell, I'm from Philly. That same couple sentences are: "Nbohythinkina floy fision?" Well shells begonnegelles!

    Aye Floye? Whattchez tawlkina bat? Geez. McNabbiss hurdle retty, need more Vick's - a whole bunchaVick's; 340 pand ers, 185 pannis, 220 pan is...or...

    Hey, how's about some fly fishin?
  • billyLevine
    Ack Ack,

    I stumbled on this last month in a law enforcement newsletter. Usually I pay no attention to these, but this one caught my eye. ME’s can pinpoint time of death but they can only do so much. Homicide DT’s constantly whine about the tedium of tracking down carpet fibers or fingernail scrapings. I can’t stand their complaining - it’s their job, for God’s sakes. Anyway, when I read this, I figured it might shut them up

    ===Carbon Dating Not A Singles Gimmick===

    Scientists at MIT have raised the bar for law enforcement forensics with new carbon dating technology. According to archeologist Roland Tapakey, “Advances in GPS applications are now being applied to carbon dating, allowing us to establish a connection between age and location of tested samples.”
    The rest of the article looked like i5,Â%#+K& - I cut it out and tried to use it as coupon for Burger King but the girl told me the coupon expired.
    Now...the good part. The headline didn’t catch my eye - it damned near pulled it out of the socket.

    White House Claims Scam on Certificate Scan
    ==================================
    White House sources claim that President Obama was scammed when he gave MIT scientists permission to perform a carbon dating analysis of his birth certificate. Questionned yesterday, Obama said, “I’m stymied. I never understood why they would seek verification of the date - that has not and will not be an issue.” However, MIT issued a terse response that could set the stage for a new and highly controversial debate about the authenticity of Obama’s birth certificate. According to MIT’s Chairperson for Archeological Sciences, Dr. Ruth Leth, “We informed the White House that new CD-2 technology would be applied. There are currently five research institutions using this technology. If they don’t like the results, they can take it somewhere else.”
    The results will undoubtedly hit front pages across the nation tomorrow, after MIT mathematicians analyze the data. Leth commented that “CD-2 technology incorporates GPS mathematical applications. We can now go beyond standard carbon dating and verify the precise location of origin. Yes, the results are shocking, but we cannot release them until they are verified.”

    Not surprisingly, zealous researchers have already released a “bare bones” outline that has been described by a White House source as “Ridiculous - this is a National Enquirer version of science.” According to another source, Obama laughed when he read the results. Whether or not the nation as a whole will find humor in the analysis below is another question entirely.

    CD-2
    [b.h.o]3179a8c_1-12_bc {trace elements}

    D.O.O. ³ 0010.000BC
    P.O.O. ³ p186.211 s17.05643007.59w

    For the uninitiated, D.O.O. represents Date of Origin, and P.O.O. delineates Point of Origin. Americans may awake tomorrow to the news that their president was born in what is now known as Jerusalem, one thousandth of a second before the birth of Christ.

    Ack, what do you think? Are we on the brink of the Second Coming. I was the other night, but she had to go to work.
  • billyLevine
    Ack Ack,

    I really want to try one of those flight simulators - I planned to ask you about them, but Google was right on top of it, so I have a decent list of prospects. I've always wanted to get off the ground legally. Maybe this is my chance. STAY AWAY FROM MY GLIDE PATH! Do they still use ILS?

    Have you read the papers today? There is something interesting related to Obama's birth certificate...it was buried; I think on page A-28 of the Times. Oops. Coffee takes priority right now or I'll fall asleep here and you can read wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww for the rest of the day.

    billywillbeback
  • flyfshr1cd
    billy, More like Ack is a whole bunch of smoke, and completely factless.
  • JackieM
    no, the truth is that Ack is a successful person in every aspect of his life and has a big database of experience. he also is very knowledgeable about many areas including politics, economics, business and the principals by which this country was founded on. it would serve you well to stop being a punk for a while and pay attention to what this great American has to say! but hey, it is your right to continue to believe the bullshit the left spews! it is also your right to continue to be the punk you are! keep in mind that it is our right to tell the truth!
  • billyLevine
    Ack Ack,

    Yes, I know the big gun...ack_ack_ack_ack_ack_and a little bit of smoke. Let me tell you, my investigative abilities were put to the test trying to find you. As soon as I saw Ack Ack I knew I had my man. Oh, sure, I was crazy...with a purpose most of the time. The uninhibited humor opened doors. Unfortunately, both of us became intolerable and everyone left.

    Obama's plans for this country are suicidal. National healthcare notwithstanding, the man has us on course for total economic collapse. The Chinese practically own us now. I really can't see how I can do my job riding a rickshaw pulled by a camel.

    We are in big trouble, and I don't think tweets will help. The latest stat on unemployment is a farce. 9.7% ? How many of them get paid under the table? Small business and start-ups cannot afford the vig. So technically they're unemployed - paid in cash and collecting more from entitlement programs. Big business makes its money exploiting addictions. Americans are addicted to everything - cosmetics, gasoline, Oxycontin, shoplifting, credit, war, sex, X-Box...and get this - you can buy flight simulator video animations that are just as good as the real thing. Soon we'll have "How To Build an Atomic Bomb videos."

    Lately I don't find too much humor in any of this. Liberals spend. Conservatives like to keep the money where it is. The joke? There is no money.
  • AckAck
    BillyLevine, BillyLevine, BillyLevine, you know we made more sense acting silly than most of those nut cases did being serious. I'm glad they all left. I miss those days of being goofy and just plain crazy as hell, know what I mean? Ahhh - well, let by-gones be by-gones, there's plenty of new fish to fry.

    You're right about this Obama character. If I was ever scared for my country IT'S NOW! Damn, I don't know if this country can stand 3 more years of this. I've been hoping to wake up and it's all a dream. If I do wake up, I hope me or you, one of the two, is president... That'd be the shits wouldn't it?

    Speaking of flight videos, I am a pilot and I still play with my flight simulator. (that's not all either) But what scares the piss out of me is how far this GPS thing come has come. I'm also a golfer and I use the hand held GPS to find out distances from my balls to the hole... Seriously, I watched the Military Channel and they have huge aircraft that fly from nothing but GPS. They can program these things and fire them off and they will fly a programed course, drop bombs and what ever, then return home. They were monitoring this one flight from a control center in Utah. The plane was over the desert in one of those country's somewhere. Scarey stuff.
  • billyLevine
    Ack Ack,

    There is one more thing that should be looked at. In my state, more than 40% of all Medicaid recipients have COPD and smoke 1-2 packs of cigarettes a day. This is insanity. We are paying for the cigarettes and the treatment - billions of dollars in nebulizers, inhalers, pills, steroids, oxygen...yeah, light up!
  • billyLevine
    Like I said, Ack Ack, I know you as one of the best grass runners of all time. You know...Kentucky, bluegrass, Keenland, etc. Took me awhile to track you down this time.

    Your concerns about Medicare are entirely valid. As usual, you're making sense even when you're not, which is a lot more than I can say for myself. About Palin, I think the GOP is wise to keep her in the background as much as possible while Obama self destructs. He's going to take a lot of people down with him.
  • AckAck
    BillyLevine, I remember you from your first post. I remember you when you were crazy as hell! What happened? I liked you then but I like you now. Remember when I had to go under cover as "Achmandennabud" to clear up a few things? Well, I got all that cleared up and got permission to post again using a different name. I could never go back to the old one, so I took up AckAck - you know, the big gun?

    You are right on about medicade. You and I cannot openly talk about why medicade was brought about because of politically correct english. (it would be much too racist for todays society) Medicare was a good thing for old people. It still can be a good thing for old people with some over sight. I have always believed we somehow need to take care of our elderly. Not because I fit into that catagory, but my push for medicare started many years ago after my dad died trying to get approved for SS in 1958. I never understood why our older people were not being taken care of. Anyway, enough of that. To get into that would be to get on a bad side of me that even I don't like.

    So, how you been? Sounds like life has been treating you well. I,m still the same ole me. Haven't changed any that I see. Good to see you on here.
  • billyLevine
    I'm changing my name to "Report."
  • AckAck
    Report, aka - billylevine, nice post. You said more in that post regarding the subject than most have said in ALL their post. Probaby, including me. I did change my name a few times in response to some other goons that was on here changing their names every other post. Those days are long gone my friend, I am not just "AckAck" or Ack" for short. In reference to the name I took, I am sort of a "fast shooter" so I thought "AckAck" was appropriate. What do you think?

    Right about the medicare and medicade government run insurance for some people in the US. I have been on medicare for about 5 years now and kind od live in the dark as to what I am going to do tomorrow. Everytime congress wants something from the old people, like me, they mention that SS is broke and they want to fix it. Vote getting is all those promises are, no real substance in what they say. I have been aware that we have the government run insurance that we have long before I signed up for SS and medicare. I have also indicated on here that the way to do a nationalized insurance plan is to clean up what we have already. Make it solid and dependable then add to it. THAT IS THE ONLY SENSIBLE TO DEAL WITH NATIONAL HEALTH CARE. If they approve one and try to incorporate in with the existing plan(s), I'm one hundred percent it all goes by the wayside - including what I have now.

    I am not against a national health care plan. I am for all Americans to have equal health insurance and oh yes, long term for everyone... However, the plan Obama proposes, is TOO COMPLICATED, TOO COSTLY, WILL NEVER HAVE ENOUGH OVER SIGHT, AND LASTLY - WILL NOT WORK. It will bog down with expenses that we havent even heard about yet. There will be taxes on taxes and when that does now work anymore, cuts within the system itself will then effect people who really need the care. Namely, people like me. Older people. And like Sarah Palin said, maybe people who have deformaties and life long birth defects. I WILL GUARANTEE THIS.

    Your thoughts.
  • billyLevine
    First things first, Ack Ack:

    How many names do you need? Last time I spoke with you, it was Achmendennannabad; before that it was Bubbles, Mr. Bubbles, Bud, Mr. Bud...ah, who cares, you're still Bud to me.

    Now, about national healthcare and all of the crap I've read here, nobody seems to realize that we've had national healthcare for decades. Call it Medicaid, Medicare, SSDI, or the nameless federal and state "no-insurance" funds that pick up the tab for those who don't have anything. Nobody goes untreated. The quality of that treatment is another issue entirely. The uninsured are not as likely to get that new liver or kidney or heart...and they won't do any better with Obamamed. All he is doing is restructuring what we already have. Oh, and also making it an open air market for abuse.

    There is absolutely NO POINT in arguing the pros and cons of nationalized health care...we already have it. What is worth talking about is HOW WE WANT IT TO WORK; not "IF" we want it. And as long as we continue to argue the upside and downside of Obamacare, the fact is that it won't accomplish anything different. We will still have people draining the system by way of fraud, sloth, indifference and sense of entitlement. The horedes of passive recipients won't go away. And as always, the middle class slob will foot most of the bill.

    So here's my question: Henrietta Peedler is 76 years old, has no insurance but does have a mailgnant tumor that will kill her slowly and painfully. Do we just let her suffer and die? If we leave the system alone and focus on the holes that allow needless suffering, who cares whether it's nationalized or not?
  • flyfshr1cd
    When the going gets tough, the Bushitters get walking
  • flyfshr1cd
    Speaking of walking, JackieM is doing the exit stage right drill, just like her heroine Sara. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have her as our President? She'd have one bad hair day, and leave the White House to walk back to Alaska. It figures two lil' redneck girls are peas in the pod. Chuckle.
  • AckAck
    Fly, visit this link:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageI...;

    You visit all links, right?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Can you say obsession, Ack? The RNC stays up night to feed you your daily dose of birther B.S..
  • AckAck
    Fry Fisher, thought maybe you had dissappeared like a lot of good ole libs do when the going gets rough. Glad you didn't. Here is a nice copy and paste for you from one of my LIEsites. You can see his real Birth Certificate on my web site. Just click my name then click on birth certificate:

    Trial set for Obama's birth certificate dispute!
    Arguments planned Jan. 11 for challenge to eligibility
    A California judge today tentatively scheduled a trial for Jan. 26, 2010, for a case that challenges Barack Obama's eligibility to be president based on questions over his qualifications under the requirements of the U.S. Constitution.

    If the case actually goes to arguments before U.S. District Judge David Carter, it will be the first time the merits of the dispute have been argued in open court, according to one of the attorneys working on the issue.

    In a highly anticipated hearing today before Carter, several motions were heard, including a resolution to long-standing questions about whether attorney Orly Taitz properly served notice on the defendants, which she had.

    In a second ruling, Carter ordered that attorney Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation can be added to the case to represent defendants Wiley Drake and Markham Robinson, who had been removed by an earlier court order. Drake, the vice presidential candidate for the American Independent Party, and Robinson, the party's chairman, were restored as plaintiffs.

    But the judge did not immediately rule on Taitz' motion to be granted discovery – that is the right to see the president's still-concealed records. Nor did Carter rule immediately on a motion to dismiss the case, submitted by the U.S. government, following discussion over Taitz' challenge to the work of a magistrate in the case.

    Carter ordered a hearing Oct. 5 on the motion to dismiss and ordered arguments submitted on the issue of discovery.

    If the case survives that challenge, a pretrial hearing has been scheduled for Jan. 11 and the trial for two weeks later.
  • AckAck
    Fish, here is a link where you can read about some of your REAL AMERICAN friends. ANIMALS!

    http://mail.google.com/mail/h/1o74grsx2v739/?v=...

    It's probably a lie though, huh?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, You've given me a bad link re:Animals, try again. OBTW, can you prove to me that you don't beat your wife? Can you prove to me why being "born again" , after you've fried a billion brain cells from drugs and alcohol, is better than never having to die in the first place? Can you explain why you have a better link to God than I do?
  • Dora
    Non-educated fools like Bubbles, Aliy, Jackie- don't want to hear about Germany's health care system because the truth hurts their LIE. They like to claim that not only do these systems not work- people hate it. Canadians, Germans, Australians, France, to name a few... all countries with a health care system that not only WORKS- but the people love it. They know that if a catastrophic injury or illness befalls them- they will not go bankrupt- be turned down coverage from their insurance provider, or worry that if they have a pre-existing condition, they will be unable to get insurance.
    You fools continue to vote against your best interests...never have figured out why you do this other than pure stupidity. The health care reform is not just about getting affordable insurance for those with none. And, Jackie, for your information, the "competition" that you mentioned is addressed via the public option. Co-ops will do nothing to serve this problem. They are too small and too localized to make a dent in solving the problems.
    I believe that there WILL be a health care reform bill passed this year.
    I have no doubt that republicans will continue to stand in the way of this... just as they insisted upon inserting 160 amendments into the bill being prepared from the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee- even with the amendments inserted- not a single GOP voted for it. This is the type of input they have had. The party of no can sit on the sidelines and watch now. They don't care to be part of the solution. All they want is to bog the process down, foot drag, misrepresent what's actually in the bill, and "just say no" .

    As far as the stimulus is concerned, Jackie- get your face on some legitimate sites and READ. Jobs have been saved and created. Job loss has dropped dramatically- from averaging 750,000 a month to 250,000. Nobody said the problems are over- but dramatic changes are being seen- whether you wish to see them or not.
    It's no secret, Jackie, that, because of your pure hatred for Obama , and because you indulge only on a diet of Faux "News", Glenn Beck, and other hate sites, you are unable to have any objective view, opinion, or honesty here. Your constant generalizations on "liberals" , gays, atheists, non-christians, other countries are so filled with non-truths, half baked twisted logic, utterly biased "reporting", and misquotes- there is no possible way you will ever be informed of what is actually going on because you prefer to have your information pre-digested and sifted rather than taking the time and initiative to find credible sources... like the actual words said by the person that actually said them.
    Nothing... absolutely nothing you say carries any weight because of this.
    Bubbles gets emails and posts them here. Like they are a source of truth... but then, he's a birther, a sexual and religious bigot, proudly claims ownership to two of the worst reps in congress, and he thinks Palin is brilliant- so that alone tells you something.
  • JackieM
    Dora--keep up your lies. the private companies are creating the jobs in spite of obama's efforts to stifle them. go back and look at your economics books (somehow i doubt you even took a class and if you did you prove you didn't understand it.) recessions typically last only a certain period of time. Sixteen months is considered a long one and they recover on their own. history shows us that government intervention makes them longer. a lot more jobs would have been created if companies could count on their taxes to stay the same. i personally know a lot of business owners that won't hire the people they need because they are waiting to see what obama is going to do with their hard-earned money! there is no solid proof that the stimulus has done much at all. as a matter of fact, some of the the jobs you say have been saved are questionable at best. you can't say that the stimulus has saved teaching jobs because the states were blowing money and their budgets were out of control anyway. you can't say the teaching jobs or any government job has been saved when it is temporary at best and if the states do not get their budgets in control, they will continue to have the problem. so you can call them temporary fixes that won't help the economy at all and most of them are not legit and can't be accounted for. whatever you want to say about them is irrevalent because they won't help this economy sustain itself. governments have to have revenue from private companies and as long as obama and other radicals have their nasty hands involved, the revenue will continue to decline. your ignorance and rants are getting your no where and you just look like a fool. your lies are really catching up with you, dora. you are judging people personally that you don't know but that is typical of a liberal. i have an honest opinion of the crook and snake. my opinion of obama is solely based on his actions, rhetoric and the people he chooses to associate himself with and those he appointed to his administration. i guess you forgot that obama said he wanted us to judge him on his peers. LOL! i take him on his word and it backfires on him. go figure! if you can't take a man at his word, he is only good to those just like him. fortunately, i am not and neither are my associates. of course, we all know that what he says and what he does is two different things and that his obligations to the special interest groups are causing this country harm. tell me where true jobs have been created. give me specific companies and number of employees they hired as a result of obama's stimulus. if you are stupid, i guess you could count the $2M wasted on four buses to hire four to five people. LOL! keep it up! so we are spending how much money to hire one person, dora? you have some nerve talking about brilliance--biden, obama, pelosi, reid, dodd and frank! don't make me laugh any harder than i am now! pick any animal and i'll tell you that the animal is smarter than all of them combined! if obama's promises of helping this country had worked, you would have a leg to stand on. however, except for more government control, everything he has promised has failed so start living in the real world for a change! you won't win any argument. i understand the healthcare systems in the different countries and don't want them here. They all have negative consequences! There are very few people in this country that need healthcare and don't have it. those folks should be targeted and laws should be changed/created to help the other issues. however, the damn liberals/democrats want to do a half-assed job and create more problems than we had before, i.,e, the credit card debacle.
  • 2bluestarmom
    They're just mad because "the one" is being exposed for who he really is.

    Also ack and aliy...you gotta hear what this guy is saying about what's really happening in our country...won't say we told them so!

    his name is David Horowitz and he's an ex communist. His parents were communist and basically, what I have been accused of ranting and raving about with our country being hijacked, the new white house coup, communism etc..is right on.

    Check him out!

    www.newsrealblog.com

    By the way, I can't believe a mainstream media biggy like ABC finally has started exposing too! I am in shock!

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09...
  • JackieM
    A Voice--I am still in shock about the media myself. However, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the reporters still support the SOB even after they report on his corruption. I really think they are that stupid!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, You're delusional! What corruption has been proven about Obama?
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, Palin's own party disses her. "Sara, leave the room". lmao http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/21/...
  • JackieM
    yeah, and i guess you have paid no attention to her big following. just look at her facebook page. you have some nerve talking about anyone in our party when you are clearly a damn liberal--pelosi, reid, dodd, frank, obama. LOL! now i'm laughing my ass off! you won't win here.
  • JackieM
    my source for the 47M people who don't have healthcare is about every speech obama has ever made on the subject. if you think i will stoop to your level, you are crazy. by the way, the newspapers are just as bad as the news channels. i suggest you start paying attention. you must either be some really young punk or someone who is in the dark. etiher way you are stupid! biden's stupid comments far outweight Palin's any day of the week. you have some nerve discussing anyone in the republican party since you have problems in your own.
  • flyfshr1cd
    More JackieM confusion, Hey, I'm the one with proof that Obama said there are 47 million uninsured, and of course he said it. What do you have to prove otherwise? OBTW , Pitiful Palin has been dissed by her own party (you have the link for that), quit as governor (skeletons in her closet). You like her because she's a she, Conservative and a redneck. Bring her on!
  • JackieM
    keep up with the name calling towards someone who has actual experience in business and managing a budget among other things. that is more than i can say about idiot obama who was a failed community activist. who gives you the right to classify her as a redneck? who in the hell are you to judge someone like that? a damn liberal is the answer. we know what kind of people your kind is. keep up your stupidity. that is why obama is losing his supporters. even the slow people are finally getting it. the idiots will never understand the truth or basic economics and business. the proof of his corruption is his rise to the senate and where he came from and who he associated himself with including the organizations he associated himself with. In addition, he has ensured he has been paying back the big groups who elected him by screwing the American people. I won't go further because this is too elementary and easily proven and i won't stoop to proving it again when all of this has been discussed to death on UC. for someone who pretends to know a lot you sure are uninformed. i don't associate myself with an acorn lover or an obama cult member so i won't answer your stupid posts any longer. others on this site know how stupid you are also. go where you are wanted and where someone gives a damn about your stupidity. i guess that would be a liberal site.
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, The "business manager" managing a budget. lmao. You can't even string a sentence together to make any sense. Just an ol' redneck girl with no facts. Your hero is in the chitcan, a proven embaressment to her own party. You never "answered" any of my posts anyway, you just rave about liberal this, commie that, Obama corruption w/o even a reference. You don't dare read my links, you wouldn't understand them anyway, and you sure as hell can't refute them.
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, It's no wonder you're so confused. You don't now the difference between a breaking News story, and an a Opinion piece. You don't have any sources you claim for your "facts", you don't trust the news channels, and I take it you include Faux. So where do you get anything from Fatso convicted Drug user Limppaw?
  • JackieM
    Not that it is any of your business, but i happen to have a background in communications as well as other things but won't elaborate further. i understand it. I trust the facts and i listen to all the news outlets. keep on talking because I'm laughing!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, The fact that you ask why/if most reporters still support Obama tells all about WHAT you expect from Breaking News stories. Reporters, unless the have an "Opinon" column, are required to report breaking news without any bias. They can be sued if they report something as factual that can be refuted. So again, this is real simple, read your Newspapers for breaking news stories, then see what your LIEsites have to spin about them if you must. I will provide factual links for you, and they won't come from Moveon.org. AGREED?
  • JackieM
    You can continue to stay blind all you want to. I can't tell you how many times I have watched the liberal news channel report the "news" and leave out pertinent information that would tell the whole story and not just the part that makes obama look good. As a matter of fact, I have sent emails to the news organizations and called them to point this out and how they conveniently left out the whole truth. so if you are a liar, you can say that the news organizations tell the truth. if you are honest, you can say that leaving out certain information is still a lie! i know how the game is played so keep it up. of course, you can be a fan of msnbc and put negative news by candidates that they don't support and all positive news by candidates they do, i.e., Sarah Palin last fall! i guess you choose to ignore this because you are a liberal.
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, How can you say news channels "leave out pertinent info that would tell the whole story". What facts do YOU know that the rest of the world does not? SOURCE?
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, You say you've heard Obama lie from his lips. Name them! You say he lied about 47 million uninsured in America. What's your source for us all to read about?
  • JackieM
    His own mouth is the source. Listen to about every speech he has ever done and you will hear him say it. of course, you are a liberal and missed the huge discussions on every news station talking about it and the airing of his speeches. All of us don't need to read about it because we heard it time and time again. i won't debate simple elementary facts with an airhead acorn idiot!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, You can't debate because you make things up, and what do "discussions" from talk radio or Faux News have to do with you claim that you read Obama's lips. I read George Bush seniors lips about no new taxes, and it was printed all over the world. Where's a link, factless?
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, I said nothing of liberal news channels as a "Breaking News Source". I said NEWSPAPERS. They make a living out of writing factual news that the public wants, even quitter Sara Palin. Sara who? You said nothing of Faux News, a self proclaimed Conservative news channel. Is that where you get your news? Where's the beef, and a link? OBTW, I'm betting that Palin's own party has given her the boot for her "family values" in hers, stupid comments "I can see Russia from here", and her ridiculous lies like this: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme... So go ahead and make my day with your link!
  • 2bluestarmom
    JackieM

    Stupid? Many are deceived. Many are just as corrupt with the same agenda.

    This thing with the media, hollywood has been going of for decades now.

    They have been successfully corrupting the minds of the people which is part of the progressive movement.
  • JackieM
    flyfshr1cd--prove your words! put up or shut up! prove van jones did admit to who he is. prove that he didn't sign the 911 conspiracy petition that he admitted to. prove that obama is not a thug and is corrupt. prove that he has not lied to the American people! it is time you idiots back up what you say!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Jackie, I already told you that I believe that Van Jones signed a petition to investigate the Bush Administration's failure to heed warnings from the FBI of an eminent AQ attack on the East Coast, so read my lips. SO WHAT? What was his wrong doing?
  • JackieM
    you add that to the rest of his rhetoric in his speeches and it spells the word RADICAL and racist! I'm not here to prove anything to you. apparently you have trouble researching things for yourself.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Jackie, What you ask of me is like me asking you to prove to me that you're not a whore, or asking Ack to prove that he doesn't beat his wife.. I will prove that any specific thing you mention is a lie, or I will confirm it. This is real simple, you only visit RNC LIEsites, and like all others here, you believe every word. So, let's take this Van Jones, whoever he is. Give me a link, not a cut n paste that which has no SOURCE. Give me a specific example of how Obama lied to the American people with a LINK.
  • JackieM
    then don't make the comment to me that what i am saying is bullshit until you have facts to back what you are saying up.
  • JackieM
    A Voice--I agree with you 100%. as we have seen the media is very corrupt. very few will challenge obama until now and most still won't. i was in shock when helen hunt called obama out on his plants in his townhall. she is a big liberal but is apparently getting sick of the corruption herself. i laughed when i saw her challenging the bumbling fool they call a spokesperson. the sad part about it is that the liberals are stupid enough to be brainwashed. they don't have a leg to stand on and continue to use the same ole tired, failed rhetoric. economics has and will continue to prove them wrong and obamacare will fail for more than one reason but the biggest and most simple one is the lack of healthcare professionals needed on day one. of course you and i know this already. we will need millions of them now and not in ten years. this plan is just another failed half-assed attempt at solving a problem and is typical of the democrats/liberals. they have yet to actually solve a problem since the idiot got into office. however, the democrats/liberals are easily fooled and will buy into lies rather quickly. luckily, some of the democrats are realizing their mistake in supporting this fool!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Constitutionalists, Check this one out. Can you believe how THEY violated our Constitution? http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Jackie, Have you read Dora's post from the German Observer regarding their countries' history with government provided health care since 1883? Can you disprove any of what was written there? Can you explain why the U.S. is the only country in the civilized world that doesn't have at least some kind of government health insurance, or subsidy of those who can't afford it? Also, can you explain why the U.S., at 17% of GNP, has the highest cost of any civilized country? How about explaining why the U.S. health delivery system is rated just 37th in the world, and why the U.S. citizens die quicker than 49 other countries in the world. One last thing, I don't need to hear your "opinions". I already know what they are.
  • JackieM
    Why would I give a damn about dora's post or anything about the German healthcare system? Explain why I should care. We are a DIFFERENT country with different issues and have damn democrats/liberals who want to increase our deficit, raise taxes and ration healthcare. Where are the real solutions for healthcare? the republicans are the only ones who want to get to the root of the problems, i.e., tort reform, competition, etc. You never answered my question of where we are going to get the millions of healthcare workers on day one. it is impossible so healthcare WILL be rationed from the beginning. by the way, do you think doctors will work for less and under more restrictions? if you do, you are an idiot! so the shortage of healthcare professionals will increase. there is no debate once we get to the crossroads of the current healthcare shortage and the FACT that obama can't perform a magic trick and pull millions more healthcare professionals on day one out of his ass. the debate ends here and republicans need to take over to solve the actual healthcare problem! democrats placing bandaids over booboooos won't work! this has been proven by their "stimulus!"

    I don't have links to every speech obama gave. I have heard them time and time again. I guess you are not paying attention. That is typical of a liberal. I and others have previously partially listed obama's lies and they are easily proven by anyone who cares to actually listen to obama. Read the previous discussions on other threads on this site. the lies are documented for idiots who can't think for themselves. News sources and articles mean nothing when we get the lies straight from the horse's mouth. By the way, how many people actually need health insurance in this nation? Is it the 47M number that obama has lied about? LOL! obama has no credibility with true Americans! i guess you were asleep during his campaign when he said he had a plan to fund healthcare. he had it all figured out already! his lies have overtaken him!

    The requirements for Medicaid can be changed if there are truly folks in need. How magical is that? LOL! Of course, there is another solution to the folks who can't afford insurance--give them an option to learn a skill to ensure they have jobs that offer insurance! duh! laws can be changed to ensure insurance companies can't cancel policies and have to ensure those with pre-existing conditions. hmmmm! how easy is this? i guess it is hard when the democrats/liberals/obama cater to the special interests groups.

    how about obama fulfilling his promise of creating jobs? how about obama's promise of no more than 8.2% unemployment? hmmmmmmm! taxing small businesses who can't afford to provide healthcare for their employees will cause more jobs to be lost and businesses to fail. obama failed in creating jobs so these jobs have to be kept for the welfare of our nation. oh yeah, i keep forgetting about the green jobs that will pay $8 to $12/hr according to a study by the CBO. biden and the other idiots keep harping on how these green jobs will provide for American families but fail to mention the salaries of these jobs. i guess the lies and deception continues. of course, since there is not an abundance of green jobs or any other kind of job, it is a mute topic, huh?

    How do you know Bush ignored the warnings? How do you know he wasn't trying to get the intelligence to specifically pinpoint the date, time and manner of the attacks? Those details were out and in the open a long time ago. Were you there in the meetings personally? if so and if you had access to all of the intelligence, you can judge the situation. I guess you loved that clinton cut our intelligence all in the name of saving money so that we didn't even have enough translators and intelligence at our disposal when we needed them. If there is anyone to blame, you ought to blame clinton for doing nothing about bin laden when he had the chance and for cutting off the funding for our intelligence overseas that took decades to build. hmmmm! there may have been a conspiracy there too! LOL! you are a nut job! I guess clinton's involvement is ignored by fruitcakes like yourself and van jones. Until you can prove that Bush actually caused 911, stop the accusations.

    by the way, van jones is on video making racist and other disgusting comments. he said who he was and what he is all about. i am not responsible for doing the research for you. he is a despictable human being who defies everything America is all about. oh, i keep forgetting so does obama! obama told everyone that he was everyone's president and that he would represent us all and unite us. ignoring a huge portion of the population is not a uniting effort. wasting our hard earned money is not helping to create jobs. hiring lobbyists into his cabinet after promising he would not is not helping his integrity any. hiring a woman who supported third term abortions when the baby and mother were healthy is just icing on the cake for those of us who knew all along this idiot does not represent true Americans! i could go on but won't because you are no challenge to me or anyone else that understands freedom!

    I suggest you go to one of the other countries that provide such great healthcare and enjoy paying the higher taxes. knock yourself out! can i help you purchase a ticket? i guess all of the people who come here for healthcare because they consider our system the best in the world are wrong? LOL! i guess you think everyone else should pay for everyone else too! keep up your liberal talking bullshit. i need a good laugh!

    I can voice my opinions and the facts all I want to. If you don't want to hear them, get off this site!
  • JackieM
    AckAck--thanks. it is nice to be back. i am posting when i can and it may be sparingly, but i'm back with a greater determination! it is really hard to break away as much now. LOL!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Jackie, You only hear what you want to hear, and that's Bushit!
  • JackieM
    I laugh at the liberals who acuse us of being brainwashed. I guess they have a hard time understanding definitions of simple words. When true Americans hear obama flip flop/lie in his speeches, it is simply too hard to ignore! When true Americans hear admissions of corruption coming from his administration, that is not brainwashing! Van Jones admitted who he really is and there are documents and witnesses to prove it also. Oh yeah, I guess I need to mention the video tapes of his rants also! This is just one example of who obama is. we are a reflection of the company we keep. liberals are fools to put it nicely! this just goes to prove everything I've said about liberals all along. you can rub their noses in shit and if it is obama's, they will swear it is a bouquet of roses!
  • flyfshr1cd
    JackieM, OK, I've read the ABC report about Van Jones signing a petition in 2004 asking for an investigation, that 66% of New Yorkers favored, to determine why the Bush Administration ignored repeated warnings from the FBI of an impending AQ attack just before 9/11. What about it? What are you talking about when you say that Van Jones admitted who he really is?
  • AckAck
    Jackie, remember where Obama came from. He spend all his political days in the corrupt Chicago maffia type political machine. He went to Rev. Wright's church for 20 years and never heard a thing. You would think people would at least see that. Huh?

    Welcome back.
  • Dora
    Bubbles, your above link does not go anyplace and the previous link is a personal blog by person or persons unknown- no bio is given... not a credible source of any sort.
    All one needs to do is look at the "suggested links" which include the Heritage Foundation and Freedom's Watch to know that the "host" is a staunch conservative. Bubbles, you throw a girlie hissy-fit when anyone links to anything from Daily Kos, Huffington Post, Media Matters, The Nation, Salon.Com, yet you drag out junk from a nobody with a distinct bias to prove your point??
    Fishguy has requested recognized journalistic news sources- as of yet, you are unable to produce one it seems.
    Here's a little homework for you- watch or read the transcript of the Maggie Mahar interview. Learn a little something from someone who knows about that which she speaks.

    oh... and a little note from a German observer:

    "Hi everyone,

    I am from Germany and have been following American politics ever since I have been to your country, where I have experienced lots of friendliness, hospitality and generosity from your people.

    I am deeply moved when I hear about decent, hard-working people in the US, who lose their jobs and their homes and descend into poverty just because they happen to become ill, and as a consequence of that poverty, are denied access to medical care except for an emergency.

    I am so sorry to hear about such fates, such as described above in this thread.

    I feel that this is just wrong, morally wrong. Doesn't America's right boast to be a christian nation? Doesn't christian doctrine prescribe to help the unfortunate? Therefore, what is so christian about dropping all those decent and hard-working people into poverty just because they became ill? That is not my understanding of christian doctrine and christian values. Jesus himself went out to heal sick people! Nowadays, it doesn't take a Jesus anymore, we have science, technology and medicine at our disposal to heal many sick people, and yet you exclude some 50 million fellow Americans from that? Would Jesus have advocated that?

    Being from a country that has had a public health care system ever since I've been alive (I'm 34), being from a working class family I've always been enjoying the benefits of the public health care system.

    As a matter of fact, I have always viewed it as a major accomplishment of my country to organize health care for its population at much less cost than in the US, and I've always been proud of that facet of my country.

    Now that I'm following the debate over public health care currently going on, I can only say that I'm utterly confounded by the argumentation. I simply cannot believe how simple and simply wrong the arguments proposed by Obama's political enemies are, and what puzzles me much more is why people who would actually benefit from the public option fall for it!

    What is this talk about "Death Panels"? Where does that come from??

    Why are you calling Obama's plan "Nazi Policy"? The public health care system in Germany has been introduced by Bismarck in 1883 - 1883!! - making Germany the first country in world history to have a public health care system, and that was 50 years - fifty years - before the nazis seized power in Germany. So what are these people talking about "Nazi Policy"? I just don't get it!

    What is this thing with complicated schematics and the talk about "putting a bureaucracy between you and the doctor"? Do you really believe in European countries you have to navigate a bureaucracy before you can go see a doctor? What happens is that some 7% of your gross income is subtracted and goes into the health care system - the same amount is paid for by your employer. This stops at a certain income, 3675 Euros or some $5,000. If you make more, you pay 7% of 5,000 bucks nonetheless, i.e. the percentage paid for health insurance DROPS. (So this regulation is good for rich people.) At the same time, if you make more than that, you have the option to choose a private health insurance carrier that might offer additional coverage.

    Also, you don't deal with bureaucracy, you simply get issued an insurance card. You go to any licenced doctor of your choice, pay 10 Euros at the first visit within a quarter, show your insurance card and that's it. No death panels, no Hitler salute, no bureaucracy.

    So basically, the Republican propaganda is presenting you with utter lies, wrong information and lies.

    However, it's really painful to watch from abroad how the American public is falling for the manipulation that is being pushed forward by whoever.

    As a German, I can only say to you Americans: You are being lied to! Don't fall for it!"
    ~Alexander Schmitz

    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2009/08/...
  • Dora
    brainwashed...Bubbles?
    We are not the flakes with "birther" paranoia.
    We are not the flakes who saw Palin as "qualified".
    We are not the flakes who are afraid of anything not WASP.
    We are not the flakes who still cannot believe that the south lost the cival war.
    We are not the flakes who use words like "towelheads" "faggots" "Osama-obama" etc
    You have issues, Bubbles- and these have nothing to do with anything Obama has said or done- your issues stem from pure ignorance of actual facts. Your fears are driven because of your ignorance. You are an easy mark for those needing gullible people.
    Stop demonizing that which you don't understand.
  • AckAck
    Can't help myself babe, that's the way I am. Country, redneck, gun loving, bible toating, don't like homosexuality son of a gun! Hey, I guess I am the FLAKE you described above because 4 out of 5 you got right...

    By the way, tell your German friend that Bubbles said "SCREW YOU." You wouldn't have a country without the United States bailed your ass out of something you couldn't get out of. Keep your nose over in Germany where you and it belongs. You deserve each other. Oh, you can take Dora Lawhora to if you will have her.
  • AckAck
    Fly, just like the birth certificate. You tell a bare faced lie when you know it's a lie. How can you expect anyone to believe that? You don't hear other liberals making a stance like you. You lost that one lier and you know it! So do thousands of other liberals. When a liberal gets caught and can't lie their way out of a lie, they just ignore it and go on like nothing happened. Well, the silent majority is on the move and liberals are stirring like a flock of scared birds. They are flying in all directions. Just like your last statement, THEY ALWAYS HAVE OLE BUSH TO BLAME.

    Obama is not getting his way even with Palosi, Reed and the rest of the cronies at his side. REAL AMERICANS are pissed of and they're taking action.

    A couple of suggestions for you Fly:

    1. Find a good local church.
    2. Go to that church, find the preacher, let him help you to find Jesus. (or, I can help you do that)
    3. Ask forgiveness and you will get it. (you better be serious though, you don't just lie to the man)
    4. Join a group of conservatives and learn how to be a republican.
    5. In 2010 - VOTE REPUBLICAN.

    If you do these things, I promise you - your life will be better and you will be happier.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What's not to blame with Bush. You DO know he was the most unpopular President in the history of America, didn't you?
  • AckAck
    Sorry fish, that posted link didn't work. Here it is again:

    http://plainhardtruth.blogspot.com/

    Go do some REAL reading from a REAL conservative. Oh, it's just another LIEsite. Is that what you call them?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, plainhardtruth bog is a Conservative site. You know this, and I knew it before I clicked on the link. You took me to the homepage, a wasted effort. If you have a specific, you need to give me a link. Don't be wasting my time just because I've promised to read any link you show.
  • AckAck
    Fly, Bush was one of the greatest presidents since Reagan or JFK. It's probably a sin in the eyes of God to treat him like you do. I forgot - you don't have a God! (YET!)

    What I didn't mention in my post is what a great deed you would be doing for your country by adhering to the things I suggested. Of course, the greatest reward would go to you. You would be a blessed man fish, you would now... Better do it...

    I know the problem with liberals. They are all brain washed. But, there is hope from one greater than myself. Fish, you gotta get help. I know you could be a good guy just accept the transformation into a different life. BECOME ONE OF US...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Do you deny that Bush had the lowest approval rating of any American President? Yes, or no?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, 1.Don't need a church to talk to my God. 2. Jesus? Never lost him to begin with. Sorry you did. 3.Don't screw over people, no need to ask some preacher like Baker for forgiveness. 4. Republican? I'd sooner join a gay march in S.F. 5. Vote for the "culture of corruption"? Ain't happenin'.
  • AckAck
    Fly, you need it more than you know. You're brain washed and honestly, you don't know the difference. I'm trying to help you fly, you're lost and wandering around in a wilderness. A wilderness you know little about. I do fly, I've been there, I've been a democrat! I've been in the lonely, spooky, liberal wilderness - it's not pretty fly, IT'S SCAREY! But you don't have to stay there fly, you can get out now. Better not wait too long fly, it might soon be over!
  • AckAck
    Yea, you're right fly - we have ran off more liberals from this web site than a sheep hearder can shake a stick at. Not with name calling, not with lies, not with bullshit! Simply with the plain truth. Obama and his cronies are screwing this country up so bad it may never be fixed again. People are taking notice now when they stand up and lie about it anymore. Poor ole Biden, he ain't never got nothing right. He's lost...
  • flyfshr1cd
    2blue, Give us a link from your "independent analysis" of Campaign Contributions. Also, would you favor regulation of the Health Insurance Companies?
  • 2bluestarmom
    Here's some more. You can find this out like I did. I just bumped into some of this stuff looking for something else.

    Not even sure what this site is about but am getting ready to find out more.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/
    orgs/list.php?order=A
  • aliy
    2 Blue, if you're answering Fly, don't bother. He's going to argue you're only saying what Hannity told you to say or that you really don't have articles (even if you put in links) he's just not going to believe anything you say because it doesn't fit into his "ignorance is bliss" box therefore, he simply can not understand it.

    I tried talking to him once about the health care bill, I gave sections, page, line and exact verbage and he keeps insisting it's not there and I've never read it. I put in links, they are not links to whitehouse.gov therefore they are what he calls "lie sites".

    He believes anything but Obama's own words are not to be trusted. Why can't we just all listen to the messiah and believe in him for thou he lies and back talks and breaks promises, he shall lead liberals in to their promised land where babies are slaughters, gay people set papal law and no one but Obama has two nickles to rub together.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, You gave me a link stating that PP 16,17 in HR3200 prove "death panels". There is no reference to doctor's counseling of terminally ill patients on those two pages. I told you that. You get to prove me wrong by reading the bill that I've provided a link for again. You also can give me again, the page and section number that you claim, or your LIEsites claim, show problems will the bill. Your ball AGAIN! http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • aliy
    No, I didn't give you a link to that. I didn't give you a link at all. I've told you. I gave you the section, page, and line where this all appeared, and if you're still not able to find it, that's your problem.

    Maybe you should worry more about what it is you are actually reading becuase it's certainly NOT HR 3200. and it's not "terminally ill" it's anyone over 65.

    Enough of your time wasting. I have better things to do than argue with you over and over and over.
  • 2bluestarmom
    Hannity isn't addressing the issues of what's really happening. He gets stuck on other things and beats it to death.

    And yes, I do watch Glenn Beck and I do check out what he is saying and I don't just take it to heart. I do my homework. I am not going to go with any parties. He is an independent. He is doing what our friggin politicians should be doing, exposing the corruption and the agenda of the progressive movement in this country.

    It's an American issue!
  • Dora
    Fly- these people are no-doubt-about-it-nut jobs.
    2blue is so filled with crap it's amazing she doesn't leave skid marks in here.
    Bubbles can't tell fact from fantasy. He's old. I'll cut him some slack for possible mental deficiency , possibly due to the elastic holding his tin foil hat in place...could be a might too snug.
    Aliy has been shown over and over again exactly what lies she continues to post regarding health care. Doesn't matter- her mind is made up and will not be distracted with pesky facts....kind of like her grammar... demonstrating rather regularly that she has either a learning disability or poor comprehension skills.

    What a sorry collection of ignorant people.

    Oh, and their hero- the tubby little Glenn Beck - it seems he lost eleven more sponsors... putting the total at around 55.... too bad, so sad.
  • AckAck
    Dora Lawhora, where you been babe? Missed you...
  • Dora
    I've been checking out the sale ads for you, Bubbles- in case there is a sale on foil- wouldn't want you taxing your mind and spending extra...
    you know us progressives- we're all about tax and spend expertise.... for example, 2blue here really taxes my patience and spends far too much time in her paranoid little world.
    Actually, Bubbles, why don't you move to Texas and join the anti-Union folks there. Frankly, it would be amusing to watch them begging for foreign aid - passports required to visit...- and naturally, that border fence that seems to concern you folks so... well no problem- we'll have to keep them at a safe distance from actual Americans.
    Natural disasters? ...flood?, tornado? hurricane? we all know how you feel about foreign aid- we have problems of our own that must come first. Naturally, NASA would relocate. Military facilities would need to relocate within the United States for security reasons. Defense contracts will have to be reassessed- we don't want tax money and jobs sent out of the country now, do we. College football, baseball, and basketball would certainly be changed with the Texas teams eliminated from the mix.

    The mind reels at the pleasure of Texas leaving- why not join them Bubbles?
  • AckAck
    Lawhora, I'm not good enough for Texas yet! I'm getting there though, I only have to bag a couple more libs and they might consider a temporary position somewhere there. I am closer to the border than you would even care to think about.

    Fish Fry, let's see now, a couple right wingers and myself kinda talked about you and your credentials. You know, those accomplishments that allow you certain entitlements in life? Here's what we came up with:

    We came to the conclusion that you are at least a 10 year veteran of one of our elite military units. Along with that you would have to have participated in the Viet Nam or the Iraq war in some capacity. That you currently or have in the past held some local office in state or federal government position. (working for the post office don't qualify) That you hold some sort of a degree from some well known college giving you the right to all the colorful little kindergarden words and phrases you use on this web site. And you are currently working for a company that pays you $15.00 per hour, or a little more. That does qualify you to be a fly fisher - if indeed you even do. And last but not least that you volunteer for ACORN and spend all your leisure time working for them on your little computer. How am I doing so far? Oh! I forgot, you wouldn't admit it if all these were true, would you? Or, maybe most of them are true and some are not?

    I bet I know what the other conservatives on here think! Come on Fish, tell us about your heroic military service...
  • flyfshr1cd
    OK, Ack. If my history is all that important to you. I have a degree in business management from 1962. Enlisted in the Army National Guard at the end of that year, and unlike Bush, I've completed all my drills, summer camp, ect, and have an honorable discharge from 1968. I've neevr been a drunk or druggie, never been arrested, and had no need to be "born again".Always worked in the private sector in Sales/Sales Management, where I EARNED a comfortable living. I've been a Health Insurance Specialist for the last 18 years, and I'm now semi-retired. I own my home (no mortgage), no one has recruited me to educate folks about health care. I'm an flyfishing fanatic, and pretty damn good at it.
  • AckAck
    Fly, if all this is true, and I doubt it is, you could be a pretty nice guy! Why are you such an asshole?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, To conservatives like you, I qualify as an asshole for at least three ways. !. I don't agree with Conservative ideology 2. I have facts to back up my positions, not just opinions or easily disproved lies. 3.I don't need to calls assholes out of frustration, just when they insult me 1st, so I'm cutting you some slack. 4. I've spoiled your image of me as being a teat sucking liberal on crack and on welfare. 5. You can't run me off with RNC lies and insults. Does that about cover it?
  • AckAck
    Hey Fly, I knew we had something in common.

    1. I don't like liberals.
    2. I don't like democrats.
    3. I don't like assholes.
    4. I don't like liberals.
    5. I don't like liberals, democrats or assholes.

    So, where do you stand with me?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, You're OK when you behave yourself, but you show your disingenuous side when you refuse to look at the Mike Rodger's video you sent me, and won't look up section 141in HR3200 that he claims proof of disenrolling insureds. You're not afraid of what you find, are ya? http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • AckAck
    Fry Fisher, I forgot to add one thing - We picked out the ones that was true and the ones that were not true. We'll wait until you tell us what is what before we give ourselves a grade. Fair enough?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What about that Mike Rodgers video you sent me. You DO know he's lied his az off, don't you?
  • AckAck
    Fry, one more thing. Don't be shy when telling us about you education or your life, Dora Lawhora has told us about all her degrees and certificates and her house and her sister, her sexual preferences and almost everything about her that we didn't need to know. So, share with us as she has, be a true liberal, let us know how qualified you are to spout and spew on a conservative web site. Show us your true liberal colors, please!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Already told you that I've been a Health Insurance Specialist in Idaho for 18 years, and have been on medicare for the last 5 years. I know what I'm taking about with health care, both from professional, and personal experience. That qualifies me to give Conservatives an "education". Like here: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
  • AckAck
    The only difference in Andy Rooney and me is that I BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUSE...

    Andy Rooney says:

    I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin , but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution.

    Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire Book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.

    But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.

    Yes, and this is the United States of America , a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

    If I went to a football game in Jerusalem , I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer...

    If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad , I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

    If I went to a ping pong match in China , I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha..

    And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit.
    When in Rome .....

    But what about the atheists? Is another argument.

    What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

    Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

    Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying.

    God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well, just sue me.

    The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we tell that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority doesn't care what they want. It is time that the majority
    Rules!



    It's time we tell them, You don't have to pray; you don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right; but by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We are fighting back, and we WILL WIN!

    God bless us one and all ... Especially those who denounce Him , God bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all. God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.


    Let's make 2009 the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions . And our military forces come home from all the wars.
  • AckAck
    Hey fish fry, how was that for a cut and paste. Almost perfect huh?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Told ya Ack. Don't waste space here with a book of cut n paste. You have a link, post that instead.
  • 2bluestarmom
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/
    news/2006/feb/17/20060217-125720-1671r/

    Regulation for greedy Health Insurance Companies and Caps on Tort to the greedy lawyers.
  • 2bluestarmom
    Lawyers With Campaign Donation Histories Set To Argue Campaign Finance Regulation Case Before Supreme Court

    http://www.opensecrets.org/news/
    2009/07/lawyers-with-campaign-donation.html
  • 2bluestarmom
    This is a very informative site. It will give you a better understanding of where the bailout money is going and why it's going where it's going instead of where it should be going!

    http://www.opensecrets.org
  • AckAck
    We're gonna hang flags from just about everything here in Kentucky for remembering 9-11. You gonna do it flyfshr1cd?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, It's the frothing at the mouth faux patriotism that gave Bush the green light to invade Iraq on the wings of a lie of wmd and AQ training camps in Iraq. A true patriot would see that we've been Bushitted by an AWOL chimp, and a 3x draft dodger Cheney, lost 4,500 troops, maimed countless thousands, spent a Trillion, and have absolutely nothing to show for it.
  • 2bluestarmom
    they don't hang American flags, they burn them.
  • 2bluestarmom
    So, my question for you, patriots, who is our voice?

    Who? Evidently, we are the voice, Today, while we still have a small window of time on our side, we better be heard and better be warning our fellow Americans, what's happening to our country.
  • AckAck
    The left wing nuts, a few of them, are getting pamphlets and videos together that are entitled "How to silence the Right Wing at Town Hall Meetings!" We may need some extreme measures on a few of these nuts! Maybe we should get some pamphlets that are entitled "How to silence the Left Wing nuts who are trying to Silence the Right Wing Nuts!" LOL This is NUTS!
  • 2bluestarmom
    I hear you! What is ironic about the whole thing? I don't know of any Americans who don't feel that the insurance companies are just a scam anyway!

    Republican, Democrat or Independents!

    Yet, conservatives or republicans are being accused of being "organized" by these thieves!

    We need to reform this insurance crap and to pass tort reform.

    Democrats have taken more money from lobbyists than Republicans during the past 15 years, according to an independent analysis of campaign contributions.

    Since the 1990 election cycle, Democrats have accepted more than $53 million from lobbyists while Republicans have taken more than $48 million for their election campaigns, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

    Data provided by the nonpartisan group also shows that when Democrats controlled Congress in the early 1990s, they consistently hauled in more than 70 percent of the town's lobbyist money. The group is a leading critic of Texas Republican Rep. Tom DeLay's ties to lobbyists.

    "When the Democrats were in charge, they were getting an incredibly higher amount of lobbyist money compared to Republicans," said Brian Nick, spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Committee. "Now that the tables are turned there is parity between the two parties."

    Last year, for instance, Republicans took in 55 percent of the lobbyist money, which roughly corresponds to their majority share in Congress.

    Mr. Nick said the figures "take the wind out of Democrat sails" for their charge that Republicans have ushered in a "culture of corruption" that breeds extensive ties to lobbyists.

    Democrats do not dispute the data, but accuse Republicans of operating at the behest of the lobbyists who fund their campaigns.

    "Since the Republicans took over Congress in 1994, they have not only taken more money from lobbyists, they have given everything they can give to lobbyists," said Phil Singer, spokesman for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

    "I'll personally give ten bucks to anyone who can come up with an example of major legislation the GOP Congress has passed that didn't do a favor for one of its special interest donors."

    Democrats also point to the overall lobbying industry, which has exploded in recent years.

    "Republicans can point to the past, but they can't justify the present," said Rebecca Kirszner, spokeswoman for Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid. "It is a simple fact -- lobbying is booming under Bush. Since George Bush came to town, the number of lobbyists has doubled in Washington."

    In addition, the amount of money that lobbyists spend on campaign contributions has skyrocketed to more than $26 million in the 2004 election cycle from about $3 million in the 1990 election cycle. Lobby firms also are reporting record profits for last year.

    Both sides cite as an example of lobbyists' influence on their counterparts the recently derailed legislation to create a $140 billion trust fund to support victims of asbestos exposure.

    Mr. Reid last week said the bill was a giveaway to lobbyists for insurance companies and asbestos companies seeking shelter from lawsuits. The trust fund would come from employers and insurance companies, but stop further asbestos lawsuits.

    Republicans say the reason that Mr. Reid and mainly other Democrats filibustered the bill is because it would hurt trial lawyers -- Democrats' biggest group of supporters -- who have gleaned large payoffs from victorious asbestos lawsuits. Some companies have been driven out of businesses by such losses.

    In the last cycle alone, lawyers gave Democrats with $134 million in campaign contributions, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, which does not include lawyer money in the same category as lobbyists. During that same time period, Republicans drew $45 million from lawyers.

    Again, this is what the radicals are putting out there and using this propaganda to divide and to justify what the radicals have always done, organize, infiltrate, disrupt, distract and destroy, the enemy, whom is, patriots.

    as per "The Washington Times"

    Again, it goes back to the "saul alinsky's" "rules for radicals" guidelines.
  • flyfshr1cd
    blue2, I tell you the same as Ack. please stop filling up pages of cut n paste nonsense from RNC LIEsites. You can just as well post a link, and you can start with "The Washington Times", where you claim you took that from. I'm calling Bushit on the whole article, no facts, no truths.
  • 2bluestarmom
    If you run this site and tell me to leave, unlike you folks, I would leave.

    However, I answered honestly and I found honest answers.

    You, I should have never responded to as you are rude and just as you and your group always do, you come back, always, with ugly, hateful bs. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, which was a mistake. One doesn't do that with radicals. That is why I don't like to engage with you.

    Don't bother approaching me. I am unapproachable to you from here on out.

    What you say, or what you think, means nothing to me. It's all the same rhetoric.
  • AckAck
    This guy is right on, visit his blog site:

    http://plainhardtruth.blogspot.com/

    Good stuff.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Closed minded, disingenuous and incorrect with your criticisms. Totally factless, unresponsive, brain washed, and a "holier than thou" are just a few things to come to mind for you, 2blue. With your myopic attitude, It's no wonder you call yourself A-Voice-In-The-Wilderness now. I wasn't rude with you up until now until after you went out of your way to rip me, but if you try it again, you have no idea what you'll get next from me next!
  • AckAck
    Fly, here is a cut and paste for you. By the way, there is also a link at the foot of the message. Hummm, wonder if you fit into this catagory? By heck, YOU SURE DO!


    Leftists use many tactics to strip of rights away from anyone they dislike. The two most-used are ridicule and fear-mongering.

    First, Saul Alinsky taught them that simply attacking a ideology with reasoned debate was not going to get them anywhere. Alinsky instructed them to instead ridicule the person(s) behind the ideology. In this case, they tend to show gun advocates as ignorant, redneck, backwoods, right-wing extremists. Once something is only supported by idiotic hicks, it's easier to take it away from them.

    Second, they use fear. In Guns Don't Kill People They Kill Amendments?, it is demonstrated how the left uses images of gun-toting extremists threatening freedom of speech to scare others into thinking that one right is actually a menace to the rest of the bill of rights.

    Slow erosion of our rights is exactly the end that these means serve. Just as in taxation, the left realizes you can't go after everything at once. Too many would fight you. Instead, you go after one right at-a-time. One small group at-a-time so that the voices of the opposition are not so loud as the right is stripped away from them. Then when they go after the next right, there is a small group fighting to keep that one, and so-on.

    We either fight to keep every one of our rights, or we are deciding that we do not need any of them.



    Rich Mitchell

    The Plain, Hard Truth

    An information engine for Conservatives
  • AckAck
    THE LATEST:

    BHO is putting his 2 cents in on the Flu Virus. One of his biggest blunders of fronting health care reform. He is trying to make people think he really gives a crap about their having health care. That is a front to throw people off the FACT that he DON'T GIVE A DAMN! This is just another scam of his to throw people of and get them to climb aboard. Man, talking about scamming the people. These nuts in Washington are getting total radical.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Proof positive from the Mike Rodgers link that Ack sent me of one lying Republican. I defy any of you to look up HR3200, section 141, that he refers to as "proof" that Obamacare will cause loss of insurance.
  • 2bluestarmom
    The progressives, marxist are trying to tear down, destroy America to rebuild it. They have all said it. They being, O and his czars and those who put him into office. PUT HIM INTO OFFICE.

    Signed, sealed and delivered. He knew he would win the election before campaigning even started. They knew as well.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Owwwwwwww Gessssssssssssss. blue2 is now A Voice In The Wilderness (poor baby). Wanna bet she still won't answer a question, or read a link. Kidna like her hangup with the Bible and RNC LIEsites. If it ain't in either, it's not worth reading.
  • AckAck
    Fly, she don't read them because she finished kindergarten years ago.

    Here's a good one for you:

    WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, just look what your National Review says about your favorite subject. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obama-and-keny... OBTW, we all would like to hear your report after reading my link.
  • AckAck
    Fly, hell that was the birth certificate that started all this up roar. I've had that photo on my web site for a year now. You gotta be kidding me. THERE IS NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
  • AckAck
    This is a must see video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc&feat...;

    If your neighbor hasn't seen it, make sure they do.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, make sure your neighbors see YOUR link for Mike Rodgers lying about Obamacare here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc&feat;...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Oh Ackman, Right from the best known RNC mouthpiece http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTRjMTFhMz...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Oh Ack, remember this link you sent me with Mike Rodgers railing about Obamacare? You might want to listen to it again, then go to my link for HR3200 to look up section 141, where Rodgers claims that you will be disenrolled from your insurance plan. Then share with us all what you've read about Section 141. Fair enuff? http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • 2bluestarmom
    Excellent source of current events:

    http://revolutionradio.org/

    "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." — Joseph Goebbels
  • 2bluestarmom
    National Endowment for the Arts. Federally funded to secretly communicate marxist agenda.

    These radicals have their dirty little fingers in every aspect of our lives.

    While O is being used to push the agenda due to his charismatic charm, his army of ants are busy and I do mean busy, are tearing down and rebuilding. When observing an ant pile, we can only see what is happening on the surface. It's what is happening below the surface that is telling.

    Again, you will have to copy and paste this.

    The person who has exposed this, you can bet, will be ostracized from the Arts community and I am quite sure, the spin is already begun.

    Go here to read about this.

    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:YurF9NlwxWI...
    pcourrielche/2009/08/25/
    the-national-endowment-for-the-art-of-persuasion-patrick-courrielche/
    +endowment+of+the+arts+propaganda&cd;=1&hl;=en&ct;=clnk≷=us
  • 2bluestarmom
    Instead of practicing cursive, reviewing multiplication tables, diagramming sentences or learning something concrete, America's kids will be lectured about the importance of learning. And then the schoolchildren, from pre-kindergarten through 12th grade, will be exhorted to Do Something -- other than sit in their seats and receive academic instruction, that is.

    Education Secretary Arne Duncan dispatched letters to principals nationwide, boasting, "This is the first time an American president has spoken directly to the nation's schoolchildren about persisting and succeeding in school." But the goal is not merely morale boosting. According to White House event-related guides developed by the U.S. Department of Education's Teaching Fellows, grade-school students will be told to "listen to the speech" and "think about the following":

    -- What is the president trying to tell me?

    -- What is the president asking me to do?

    -- What new ideas and actions is the president challenging me to think about?

    Students can record important parts of the speech where the president is asking them to do something. Students might think about: What specific job is he asking me to do? Is he asking anything of anyone else? Teachers? Principals? Parents? The American people?

    After the speech, teachers will ask students:

    -- What do you think the president wants us to do?

    -- Does the speech make you want to do anything?

    -- Are we able to do what President Obama is asking of us?

    Obama's White House Teaching Fellows include Chicago high-school educator Xian Barrett, a fierce opponent of charter schools who founded a "Social Justice Club" and bussed students to protests, and Michelle Bissonette, a Los Altos, Calif., teacher who is "focused on developing my leadership as a more culturally and racially conscious educator."

    The activist tradition of government schools using students as junior lobbyists cannot be ignored. Zealous teachers unions have enlisted captive schoolchildren as letter-writers in their campaigns for higher education spending. Out-of-control activists have enlisted their secondary-school charges in pro-illegal immigration protests, gay marriage ceremonies, environmental propaganda stunts and anti-war events.

    And last year's presidential campaign saw disgraceful abuses of power by pro-Obama instructors. In New Rochelle, N.Y., elementary students were given an in-class assignment to color in drawings of Obama -- including a picture of a campaign button featuring his face and the slogan "Students for Obama 2008." In Cumberland County, N.C., a fifth-grade teacher turned a "civics" discussion into an unhinged harangue against a girl who said her family supported John McCai

    Letter From Secretary Arne Duncan to School Principals
    August 26, 2023
    http://www.ed.gov/admins/lead/academic/bts.html


    Please note that the time of this speech has changed to 12:00 noon eastern standard time.

    Dear Principal:

    In a recent interview with student reporter, Damon Weaver, President Obama announced that on September 8 — the first day of school for many children across America — he will deliver a national address directly to students on the importance of education. The President will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning. He will also call for a shared responsibility and commitment on the part of students, parents and educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens.

    Since taking office, the President has repeatedly focused on education, even as the country faces two wars, the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and major challenges on issues like energy and health care. The President believes that education is a critical part of building a new foundation for the American economy. Educated people are more active civically and better informed on issues affecting their lives, their families and their futures.

    This is the first time an American president has spoken directly to the nation's school children about persisting and succeeding in school. We encourage you to use this historic moment to help your students get focused and begin the school year strong. I encourage you, your teachers, and students to join me in watching the President deliver this address on Tuesday, September 8, 2009. It will be broadcast live on the White House website www.whitehouse.gov 12:00 noon eastern standard time.

    In advance of this address, we would like to share the following resources: a menu of classroom activities for students in grades preK-6 and for students in grades 7-12. These are ideas developed by and for teachers to help engage students and stimulate discussion on the importance of education in their lives. We are also staging a student video contest on education. Details of the video contest will be available on our website www.ed.gov in the coming weeks.

    On behalf of all Americans, I want to thank our educators who do society's most important work by preparing our children for work and for life. No other task is more critical to our economic future and our social progress. I look forward to working with you in the months and years ahead to continue improving the quality of public education we provide all of our children.

    Sincerely, Arne Duncan
  • 2bluestarmom
    CALL TO ACTION: KEEP YOUR CHILDREN HOME SEPTEMBER 8 2009

    By now most of us should be aware of the numerous incidents in public schools through out our Nation where teachers have belittled, insulted, and attempted to indoctrinate our children. If you haven't then search YouTube and you will see several scary examples in all levels of both public, and college education. You have also witnessed the reaction of Representatives, and government run media to the patriots who attended town hall meetings.

    On September 8, 2009, you can tell the world that as an American Parent that you DO NOT WANT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA TO INDOCTRINATE YOUR CHILDREN PERIOD. Keep your children home, and keep them safe. Explain to them why you are keeping them home. Find a trusted family member or friend to watch them if you have to work, or have other obligations you must attend to.

    I have no idea how many children there is in our American Education system, but it has to be way over ten million. Now think about this real hard, if ten million children do not show up in class on the same day, this has got to send a message.

    Q: Isn't this depriving our children of an education?
    Q: Isn't this using our children for a political means?
    Q: Can they make my child go to school that day?

    A: No, you have a Constitutional Right to protect your children by any means necessary within the limitations of the law.
  • 2bluestarmom
    We have bigger fish to catch, flyfshy..our country has been hijacked. I am not wasting my time with your rhetoric. Don't have to, don't want to.

    You guys go out and infest the websites, the townhalls and anywhere else you can go to disrupt and deceive.

    Not interested. Do your homework. Open your eyes.

    While your at it, check out who O's advisers are and what they are doing. Just google them. Try czars, obama, socialist, communist, whatever.
  • AckAck
    Aliy & 2blues, ever watch a liberal when they are loosing the battle? Hussien's popularity is plumpting and even his cronies are turning against him and the libs don't know whether to fart or whistle... The T-Partys are growing and they have nowhere to go anymore. I'm loving it here! Laughing my behind off.
  • 2bluestarmom
    Ack, ignore the diversions of the radicals that are trolling the internet to distract what is happening. This is what they want. Start posting here what is going on in our world, not just daily, but hour by hour.

    Example:

    Obama campaign org politicizes 9/11 - calls protestors ‘right-wing domestic terrorists’

    President Obama’s campaign organization, Organizing for America, goes way, way too far.

    Team Obama wants to use 9/11 to push back against protesters, referred to as “Right-Wing Domestic Terrorists” by calling Senators in support of the Obamacare public government option.

    Today, the Obama campaign folks sent out a notice to “grassroots” supporters about the planned 9/11″health care organizing event”:

    What day? Our US Senators return to DC the Tues after Labor Day. That next FRIDAY, Sep 11, is Patriot Day, designated in memory of the nearly three thousand who died in the 9/11 attacks.

    All 50 States are coordinating in this – as we fight back against our own Right-Wing Domestic Terrorists who are subverting the American Democratic Process, whipped to a frenzy by their Fox Propaganda Network ceaselessly re-seizing power for their treacherous leaders.

    The offensive notice has been scrubbed from the Organizing for America website, but I was able to get the following screenshot

    http://www.redstate.com/california_yankee
    /files/2009/09/2phone-calls.jpg

    Unfortunately, links don't seem to work when pasted on here anymore when UC used to have a format that allowed it. You may have to copy and paste this.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Last post from me for your birther butt. Obama is YOUR President, and you have no facts on his birth certificate. Deal with it.
  • AckAck
    I'm still here, there's still no birth certificate, you deal with it!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Tits up for the "birthers". The House voted 380 to accept the resolution stating that Obama was born in Hawaii. Read n weep, kiddies.
  • AckAck
    Fish, hell, I'm sorry! I should have thought of this before... LET'S JUST BLAME BUSH FOR OBAMA NOT HAVING A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. That's what you liberals do, huh?
  • Dora
    The poor slobs that buy into the "birther movement" are the same ignorant slobs that are too lazy to learn about the current state of America's heath care problems, what proposals have been made, and maintain the incredible inability to sort fact from fear mongering.
    The ignorant here - with or without the knowledge that they are being played (by huge corporate interests that want no change in the status quo) - continue to parrot the words they have heard on their "trusted" sites and personal news interpreters like Beck, Cunningham, Limbaugh, Hannity, and other individuals with nothing other than "shock infotainment" and maintaining their six and seven figure salary.

    Why waste time away from your T & A programming to actually READ anything? They prefer to be "told" rather than learn anything on their own.

    Bubble-brain Bubba - I feel quite certain that you are among those hollering the loudest about "Obama-care" (not that there even is such a thing- but hey, who cares- right Bubble-brain? As long as you can include in anything that comes out of your face to include the words:
    birth certificate, socialism, Pelosi, Dodd, Frank, lazy liberals, freaks, queers, fascism- to name a few-, and connect any or all of these to Obama you're happy). How pathetic you are. Your answer to your critics is to call names- go revisit any post that you have directed at me, for example...the rancor, the filth, the name-calling- absolutely vile. What part of anything you have ever said validates this. NONE.

    You people are utterly predictable- and not in a good way.
    You claim to hold "christian values"- yet daily display that is in theory only. You know, Bubbles, 2blue, Aliy, you can stand holding a hammer and look at the nail - but unless you actually USE that hammer - don't claim that you are anything other than a tool holder.

    Aliy seems to have appointed herself as the resident expert on health care and pending reform- yet she constantly repeats lies. Constantly. Her noise (that flatulence that she emitted earlier regarding health care systems around the world) misrepresented countries, systems, and successes- preferring to mouth the talking points of Beck et al.

    Aliy- try reading the facts- not spin.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/200...

    You are a pathetic, soul-less, non-educated, collection of non-thinkers. Your nothing but tool holders that use their heads as mere hat racks.
  • Dora
    You're ^
  • AckAck
    Fly, one last question on this subject. Why would the house have to vote on this and waste taxpayers money, why don't Obama just show the birth certificate? Wouldn't that be the way to handle this? What if that was Bush? You can't answer that unless you say "there isn't one." Correct?
  • AckAck
    Fish, remember this post by you 5 days ago?

    "More "birther" nonsense. Obama's birth certificate has appeared on the internet, and in newspapers. This is just more drivel for droolers. Trent Franks is Bushchitting you."

    Now, where is the one that appeared on the Internet and in the newspapers? This is such a typical liberal response to avoid looking at the truth. I don't understand this. I am an American and I can't accept this, why do you? Aparently you don't give a damn about the principles this country was founded on... SOCIALIST!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, End of story for your birther Bushit here: http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcerti...
  • AckAck
    Fried Fish, is this what you're hanging on to? LOL - I mean - LOLOLOLOL - I'll bet every conservative that sees that link is laughing louder than me right now! That computer generated piece paper has been around since the first day of this thing. THAT IS NOT A CERTIFIED COPY OF A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. It is computer generated. You gotta be the stupidest liberal in America to try and fling that thing around again. WOW! You're a piece of art Fish.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Heh, all of your Conservative attack dog heros have given up entirely. Enjoy your ridiculous flailings with a dead subject.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Kinda like I visit your links, and report back. You refuse to visit mine, even if they come from a Conservative site like this: http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Julie, do explain to us all what you call "some basic rules of etiquette". You can start by telling me what problem you have with this link: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme...
  • geniusconservative
    wow talk about your waste of time - please lets talk more about how we need to make the conservative movement's e-dicks as big as the liberals. this is the stupidest article ever, and then you reprint it here as validation. This is the dumbest conservative blog ever.
  • flyfshr1cd
    geniusconservative, What goes on here is pretty typical for a blog site run by a LIEsite. The lying liars and the lies they tell here go mute when you ask for a link that proves any lie. They all say they can prove the lies about OBAMACARE, yet when I post a link below that comes from another Conservative site that has the link below for the entire plan, they can't support ANY of the lies by siting the page number. http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS... You can only come to the conclusion that they can't handle the truth!
  • AckAck
    Fly, where's the birth certificate? You never produced Obama's birth certificate for me yet you friggen certain it's there! WHERE? Show it to me liberal...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Every member in the House from YOUR party voted for this. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-...
  • AckAck
    Fish, I seen this. Believe what you want, I for one have no concrete evidence that he has a United States certified birth certificate. If he did, it would have been shoved in the faces of the conservatives a long time ago. Agree? It's just that simple, show me the certificate and I will shut up. You should be equally concerned unless of course, you may have seen the real one. But until there is REAL PROOF that a American Born Birth Certificate exist, I'll continue to protest and rant. Of all things we disagree on, you and I should be agreeing on this one. By the way, I have democrat friends in my church that agree with me and they too are mad because for some reason this has not been resolved.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Birther BS. You have to prove that Obama's cert is false, or shut the hell up!
  • AckAck
    What about you friggin loons who keep saying he proved it by showing a phony certificate! How about them apples? In a corner now huh? Don't have an answer anymore since the "it's on the Internet" shit don't work now! And I'm sure as hell not shutting up liberal.
  • AckAck
    I don't have to prove shit liberal. Obama is the one who has to prove he is legal. Got it?
  • Name
    wow way to miss the point champ
  • AckAck
    Fish, everytime someone post a link, you call it the snappy little "LIEsite" - No offense but you sound like a little school kid with you liberal words.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, here's the source of your link. http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=366 Chairman Floyd Brown is a paid liar for the RNC PAC above. However, when you open YOUR link, they claim to be non partisan. Western Journalism is NOT a breaking news site, and none of their lies can be substantiated. Send me more!
  • AckAck
    Fly, read on liberal - It's still time to repent... Your mouth overloads what-ever it is you carry around in your pants. Everything that goes against your radical liberal agenda is a lie. You're soooooo typical it isn't funny anymore...

    What if you discovered that the vet who takes care of your dog was Michael Vick? Would you think twice about bringing Fido back for his annual shots?

    Or what if you discovered that your auto mechanic was a member of Greenpeace? Would you think twice about having him work on your SUV?

    Of course you would. Just as, I hope, you would think twice about trusting your retirement savings to someone who secretly despised -- or simply didn't understand -- the free-market capitalist system that makes profits and prosperity possible.

    Yet that, believe it or not, is exactly the position millions of Americans are finding themselves in today -- as they discover that Wall Street, far from being a stronghold of "rich Republicans" and "laissez-faire capitalists," is actually dominated by liberal Democrats who support, overwhelmingly, the prosperity-wrecking big-government policies of Barack Obama and his merry band of neo-socialists. Think I'm exaggerating? Consider the following facts and statistics:

    According to an analysis of Federal Election Commission records by the Center for Responsive Politics, the 2008 Obama campaign received $12.6 million from Wall Street "Securities and Investment" firms versus McCain's $7.9 million


    The top three corporate employers of donors to Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and Rahm Emanuel were Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and JPMorgan


    Employees of Lehman Brothers alone gave Obama $370,000, compared to about $117,000 to McCain. (No wonder Bush let them go under.)


    Since 1998, the financial sector has given a total of $37.6 million to Obama, compared to $32.1 million to McCain. But Obama ran for his first national office only in 2004. So McCain got less from the financial industry in a decade that included two runs for president than Obama did in four years.

    What's this all about? Well, you see, the financial industry takes care of Democrats -- and as we've seen in recent months, the Democrats take care of the financial industry. After all, it's a lot easier to get rich by taking money from taxpayers than to do it by choosing consistently profitable investments for your clients.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack: STILL you insist on copy/pasting hugh articles lies from LIEsites that take up space here. Whre's the link from the LIEsite for that? Don't you have any original thoughts of your own? Can you support the claims about Obamacare from the actual bill? Let's see you try! http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Blue, The Brown Shirts that I've seen came when I protested the invasion of Iraq in front of the Idaho Center 5 years ago when Bush came to talk the captive audience of the Idaho National Guard, who were stolen from their civvy jobs to fight a war for oil, with the promise of finding WMD, and AQ training camps in Iraq. I was told by my conservative friends that I was traitor, while Bush ws running his mouth that "you're either for us, or against us". You do remember that line, don't you?
  • flyfshr1cd
    False accusations again, blue? Name your sources, and I'll blow everyone of them up for you. Where's the beef?
  • amber3
    A question for conservatives regarding the public option. Apart from the cost to the tax payer, why are conservatives so apposed to the optional public plan and do you think it is mandatory/will be forced on you as a consumer?

    It is my understanding that any person will still be able to go out and purchase private health insurance if they wish to do so.
  • flyfshr1cd
    amber3, I find your voice in this wilderness of ignorance to be totally refreshing. Maybe you can actually get them to think for a change without searching for cut n paste lie or spin from their favorite LIEsite. lol Yes, you can purchase any private health plan from any insurance company that's licensed to sell in the state you live, you also can keep what you have. You may also get OPTIONAL right to die with dignity counseling should you be terminally ill. For more facts on Obamacare, be my guest to find all the facts from the White House through the following link. See, the righties in this room will never do that, because they prefer to continue to get all their "facts" from their LIEsites. www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck Hell, they won't even go to a link for the complete House Bill: http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS... The sad truth is for Conservatives, is that they have fixed beliefs, and they just can't handle the truth.
  • Manfromthemountains
    Hi again ya'll, no body woud talk to me when I was here before. Whats wrong with you people? Do you have a bunch of liberal folk on here or something? What do you call them? We call them "chicken butts" in Kentucky. Or at least we do in my home town of Happy.

    I told Charlie, my friend from the other trailer court, about this site and he may do something on here. He is a real lib hater though so watch out.

    Buy now.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Manfromthemountains, I talked to you, and you never answered my questions. Tell Charlie this lib told him to "bring it on". See how I'm inspired enough by Bushs quotes to use one? LMFAO
  • AckAck
    Take a look at this link - personal invitation to liberals!

    http://www.cfourstrategies.com/HE082809.html
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, You gotta be kidding. Hannity-Palin for President? One with no political experience, the other a liar who just just as governor? Bring 'em on.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Vicious lies here from your LIEsite, Ack. Why do you believe such crap? Why can't anything at these sites be substantiated through the Newspapers? I can personally tell you just the opposite about "stacking" town hall meetings. Here in Boise, your TEA Party friends sent out personal invitations only to their "friends" on their email list. The only way I found out about this meeting was from a Conservative friend who forwarded his invitation to me. This is fact, and I'm sure the Tea Parties are being stacked in the same way all across the country. Deny?
  • AckAck
    Fish, what news paper do you read? The New York Times? LOL
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I read real breaking news from real newspapers. The New York Times is one of many.What newspapers do you read? I'm not talking about Opinions, cause like assholes, we all have one.
  • Dora
    I'm sorry, but the ignorant on this site have no idea what "option" means.
  • 2bluestarmom
    Option, ignore radical liberals who are blind as hell or listen to them and become mentally ill.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ignore is all you can do, there are no options for the factless.
  • 2bluestarmom
    There it is flyfshr. You have no options. You voted for these factless idiots. You have no option now.....unless you get zapped in the head and your site is restored.
  • flyfshr1cd
    The factless in my post includes 2blue, and if you mean my SIGHT, instead of the SITE you mentioned, my eyes are wide open, and my facts are straight. Also, my SIGHT can see right past your LIEsites. There's not a post with a RNC link that I can't demonstrate is either spin or a downright lie. So go ahead and post a link, and make my day.
  • 2bluestarmom
    You are being used and duped. Both parties are guilty of corruption. The difference between me and you and some of the other anarchist here, I admit when I am wrong or have been deceived.

    Remember my name and my face when you have come to the realization that this country is under siege, under totalitarian rule.

    The brown shirts will be worn by those who are accusing us.
  • AckAck
    Obama Care, Kennedy Care I think the democrats are calling it today. I am concerned about cost, while Obama and company has guessed wrong by about two trillion dollars on this thing and I am supposed to be for it. I am supposed to get on board and not care as some lame brained liberals are doing? I should just let them keep guessing until this thing is in complete failure? No way Jose! Everyone, I MEAN EVERYONE, you to fish, should see that this Obama administration is a total failure in everything they have attempted to do.

    They are running this country into debt that even our great grand children will be paying for and for what? Things are just getting worse and they just go on spending! Unemployment is now in double digits and they just keep spending! HOW CAN ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SUPPORT THIS? WOW! Unbelievable...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Where's the link that proves Obamacare will cost 2 trillion?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Re: Option. Sure they do, Dora. "Option" means the choice to go online the their favorite LIEsite, or to turn on FAUX News.
  • AckAck
    I have problems anymore with anything the democrats come out with. It's at the point now that even if what they proposed was good, I couldn't trust them. Look what's already happening to Senator Kennedy's name. The white house announced they want to go forward with their plan in "Honor of Senator Kennedy." Yea, right! That is just another "evil" tactic to get some more on boad. Everyone knows Senator Kennedy was very much in favor of health care reform. Not so much what the Obama administration wants but "Real Reform" with ALL the American people in mind, not just a few.

    Speaking of out right raw tactics, how about the health care reform headquarters in Colorado being trashed to the tune of $10,000.00 or more? Found out it was democrat activist. I deliberately watched CNN this morning, nothing about the trashing. They reported zero news on it. I watched a complete morning segment and NOTHING!

    I have know from the first day that medi care, or any government sponsored program was being ripped off by greed! My wife is a health care worker and when the medicare program was approved for seniors, senior care costs shot through the roof. Semi-private hospital rooms went from $175.00 to $670.00 over night. Look at the military, same situation. No over site has ruined medicare and our defense spending has been taken advantage of. The sad part of all this is that probably every political image in Washington knows this. No one wants to take it on. No one gives a crap because it is tax payer money.

    A lot of stuff could be overhauled simply by oversite and weeding out the crooks and puting them on work farms. It won't happen though. Every president we get wants to make some kind of a mark in the history books without even thinking what the people want. Makes me sick everytime I take a look at the entire picture of government.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, You say Medicare for seniors caused the charge for a semi-private hospital room in your area to rise to $670 over night. So, do tell us what the charge for that same room is for a under 65 patient, for someone with and without health insurance. Also explain why you say that Medicare is ripped off by greed, but why that doesn't happen in the under 65 market with private insurance. Lastly, please educate us by providing a link for that Colo story showing that a Dem activist was caught trashing health care reform HQ.
  • AckAck
    Fly, as a good liberal you are intentionally mis-reading what I am attempting to say and covering up your coverse intentions by changing the subject to mean something else. I was simply stating a FACT that shows anything the government has control of SUCKS! They had a good thing with the welfare for poor people. Politicians started using and promoting it as a tool for votes. Totally screwed it up. You don't need a link to know that do you? Unions, they were a good thing until politicians stuck their nose in and started using them as powerful tools for votes. You don't need a link to know that do you? If you do, there's probably no need to speak further with that subject to you.
  • 2bluestarmom
    Our white house/government is being restructured, as we speak. Swift, silent, deadly.

    Don't you wonder where the trillions on bailouts is? Where's the money? Why aren't folks back to work?

    With all the radical czars who are advising O, they are restructuring as we speak. Now they want to adopt Chavez's extinction of "free speach"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF2C235fD7o
  • Dora
    You missed the point entirely- as usual- 2blue, the "czar" name which you - and others here- like to point out as being just one of the many socialist agenda items promoted by Obama and acting as "proof" that he is "un-American" is just CRAP.

    It's pure crap- but, rather in line with most of your posts here though , I'll give you that.
  • 2bluestarmom
    As we have all been predicting on here for over a year now, everything we suspected, and more, on your O administration, is coming to pass.

    The proof is in the pudding, dora. It would be so much more welcome if we had been wrong. I would rather we were wrong. You will see very soon just how wonderful your "change, hope, socialistic" government is going to "fix" everything.

    Under the cloak of darkness, our whole government is being "changed"

    I am quite sure you all will feel it too when your voices, will no longer be heard.

    Get ready, your dictator and his czars are building your new country.
  • amber3
    Hello Aily, I see your point, but I think it is I a bit of a pipe dream you cant get an honest conversation on the subject, instead you get sensationalist fear tactics like you have to wait years to see a doctor, or a death panel is going to decide when it is time to put seniors or handicap people to sleep. The other issue I would have is voter turnout, as you know,people in the US simply dont vote.

    As for frivolous law suits, I really don't think that is the problem. This reminds me of The Bush/Clinton presidential election where welfare moms became the center of debate for balancing the budget, basically just another form of scapegoating, and moving our attention away from the real villain, the insurance industry.

    As for making it a state issue, I think it is time for national health care. I dont have enough knowledge of state government to argue why this is or is not a good idea but I can think of a few concerns I might have. First it doesn't cover everybody. What about those backward southern states (no offense ackack) I believe they are often the national HQ of insurance companies and those states would never allow healthcare reform happen. What about rich states vs poor states. What about people migrating to states with a public option thereby putting strain on that system. I believe a state plan would require federal funding in any case especially in the case of the poorer states so why not make it federal.

    Here in Australia the state covers 60 percent of the bill and the federal government covers 40 percent. It used to be 50/50 but the conservatives have been in power for the previous 12 years or so and It was their ambition to scrap the public plan altogether. The nation would never allow this, so they instead reduced federal funding from 50 to 40 percent in order to make the plan buckle under the stain, their hope was that it would eventually become unpopular and could later be scraped. This didn't work and the bastards no longer in power.

    I don't understand why conservatives are so apposed to an OPTIONAL public plan (here in Australia it works great) it would result in more competition and remove the some of the negative aspects of letting the free market dictate the terms of healthcare. I am a capitalist/business owner, but I think some markets should NOT be completely at the mercy of supply and demand.
    Kind regards.
  • aliy
    Amber, I am not playing off fear, I'm not talking about death panels. I'm stating certain facts that you can't aruge.

    Free is NOT free, in order for the governement to provide for one it first must take away from another. The only people getting Free are the ones who don't pay into the system.

    The CBO has said if this passes 1 in 5 people on Medicare are going to loose coverage because they are trying to trim the cost of that to support the bill.

    The insurance industry has been vilified in all this but keep in mind, if they didn't have to pay out MILLIION for people EATING prepreation H they wouldn't HAVE to raise the rates so high to begin with.

    I think it's great your counties system works however, here we have a government who just sent 3,900 stimulus checks to PRISONERS (like IN prison), I got a call the other day telling me DCF wanted access to my checking account or they were going to cancle my food stamps (which I don't get), Social Security just released the figures and it will be BROKE by 2014. They just arrested numerous people and over 40 doctors for medicare fraud....There are a LOT of things this country needs to work out before most of us will trust the federal government with ANYTHING. It seems like everything they touch turns to crap.

    Cash for clunkers, did you know most of the dealerships had a provision in the contract that if the government didn't pay them, the consumer was going to be responsible for that (90% of dealerships in MY area had to send out bills this week when ALL their cash for clunkers rebate requests were denied), Oh, and now they want to do cash for refrigerators (because GE gave soooo much money to Obama when he was running for office..) I just DARE someone to buy a Maytag, won't see THAT rebate either!

    And the final point, it wouldn't be optional. There are provisions in the bill that say if you leave your job you are put on this and that is where you stay, even if your new job offers insurance, once you're on this government program, you're on it, no going back. That's not choice.

    I guess though, the bottom line is that we really don't trust our government (Obama, Bush or whomever is next) to actually pull this off with any efficiency.

    We're not against insuring people, we're against the government having a hand in any of it.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy and Amber, Amber, you have to forgive Aliy for her ignorance and propensity to believe anything she reads from a Conservative LIEsite. Her and her kind could easily prove the claims she made about Obamacare simply by reciting the page number of HR3200 here. http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS... I have no idea whether Aliy and company are just ignorant and brain washed, or just can't handle the truth. In any case, she lies that the CBO ever said that 1 in 5 on Medicare will loose their coverage, that Social Security said it will be broke by 2014, that prisoners got stimulus checks, that buying a Maytag Fridge won't qualify for the stimulus check, and that once your on the government insurance there's no going back. Medicare for seniors is an unqualified success, and has been for 40years in the U.S.. We seniors will NOT have the Cons take it away from us like president Bushit tried to do. That's why their kind post lies that 1/5th of us will lose it-to spread malicious lies by causing panic with seniors. Once again, I challenge Aliy and her kind to prove me wrong about the REAL provisions in the Obama health reform HR3200 bill by looking it up here: http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS... She/they will NEVER do that, because they will never find the lies from their LIEsites there.
  • AckAck
    Amber, no offense taken. But you see the same here as back then, the health care is the subject matter while the soliclistic government forms. Call me nuts or a southern nut if you want but that's happening as we speak.

    As far as the health care reform, I do think we need it but not nationalized. If we have such bad health care in this country why do countless people travel here from foreign countries for health care every year. No, I think we need to revise and work on what we have. I could make a list of what I thought would work but it would be pointless. Really, everything we are talking about in these post is pointless as far as changing anything. Right or wrong I have joined in with a majority who have taken an opposition to total reform. There are several areas in our current health care programs that could be reformed to make the system work better and more efficient. One of those areas would naturally cost. Right now I believe that area should be top priority and then change could funnel right on down through the system.

    Just my thoughts with out geting too deep into the political end of it.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, You don't have to have any answers to health care reform with a Conservative slant, but you SHOULD expect your party to come up with a better mousetrap. My contention is that they're bought and paid for by big biz, and their marching orders are to attack any reform coming from Obama, and keep the status quo.
  • AckAck
    Wow! What a come back. What big biz? Oil? Auto Industry? Banking Indusltry? Maybe the US Treasury has them bought off! LOL You gotta be joking right? I mean, BIG BIZ!
  • AckAck
    Fly, here's why I don't talk much in detail about all that is going on with this administration and what they are trying to do. Especially in the health care reform package they keep changing and trying to crap down the peoples throat.

    Are Obama and his friends taking you as a fool?

    You have to wonder what they really think about the intelligence of the American people.

    Obama repeatedly has out-and-out lied about his healthcare plan.

    Here are just 5 of the big whoppers.

    Lie #1: 'You Keep Your Doctor, You Keep Your Insurer'

    This is a complete fabrication.

    Under plans Obama has backed in the House and the Senate, almost any business can opt their employees into the "public option" - the government health plan.

    That means you could lose your insurer. And if your doctor is worth his salt, you'll lose him or her as well.

    Why? Because great doctors probably will not want to get the very low rates the government will pay private doctors who are part of the new government system.

    So, without your consent, you very easily could lose your insurer and your doctor.

    Lie #2: The Elderly Will Not Face Rationing or Medicare Cuts

    More baloney.

    In fact, just last week, The New York Times, a very liberal and very pro-Obama newspaper, admitted that fears of rationing for elderly patients are "not irrational."

    The truth is that Obamacare would almost 50 million new patients to government care.

    Who would pay for it. You would!

    Seniors on Medicare will be the first hit.

    Here's what the Times reported: "Bills now in Congress would squeeze savings out of Medicare, a lifeline for the elderly, on the assumption that doctors and hospitals can be more efficient."

    This means that faceless bureaucrats will decide the type and quality of your care.

    It is a very dangerous thing to give your life and well-being over to government bureaucrats!

    Imagine if you or a loved one is older than 80 years and critically needs heart surgery.

    Instead of getting the heart procedure, you or that loved one could be informed that you are simply too old.

    We at the League of American Voters have been warning of this danger and have a powerful TV commercial exposing the risks to seniors.

    You can see the ad by Going Here Now

    Lie #3: There Will Be No "Death Panels."

    More lies.

    Sure, they don't call them "death panels" in the legislation, but that's what their job will be.

    These committee members will set guidelines with which faceless bureaucrats will make decisions about you and your healthcare.

    They will decide who lives and who dies. They decide who gets critical procedures and expensive medicines.

    Again, according to the New York Times, the Democratic plans call for saving money by creating new oversight committees.

    The Times says that Medicare and insurers would be expected to follow "advice from a new federal panel of medical experts on 'what treatments work best.'"

    Again, this very liberal paper concluded: "The zeal for cutting health costs, combined with proposals to compare the effectiveness of various treatments and to counsel seniors on end-of-life care, may explain why some people think the legislation is about rationing, which could affect access to the most expensive services in the final months of life."

    Expose the lies - Go Here Now.

    Lie #4: The Obama Plan Contains Costs

    Absolute nonsense.

    The Obama plan will cost more than $1 trillion in new federal outlays, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

    This past weekend, Sen. Joe Lieberman claimed that most of this cost comes from adding 50 million people, currently uninsured, to the government health system.

    But as Lieberman pointed out, we just don't have the money to do this right now.

    You can add only so many people to the government system by cutting medical care to seniors on Medicare and raising taxes.

    Democrats clearly plan to do both.

    Lie #5: Illegals Are Not Covered by Obamacare

    President Obama has stated time and again that illegal aliens are not covered under his new plan.

    Still, Democrats say they want to add almost 50 million uninsured. Yet almost one-quarter of these uninsured are illegal aliens.

    None of the Democratic plans excludes illegal aliens.

    In fact, when Republicans proposed an amendment to the House plan to block illegals from getting free government healthcare, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her minions soundly defeated the motion.

    Many, many lies are emanating from Washington today.

    This is why the work of the League of American Voters is so critical now.

    Dick Morris, the famous Fox News analyst and campaign strategist, says the League is the No. 1 organization today fighting Obamacare.

    "Every American who wants to stop Obamacare should join with the League," Morris says. "They have the best strategy to stop it from becoming law."

    Just two weeks ago, the League's powerful new TV ad went on the air.

    Thanks to your help, it's already running in 12 states - and it is affecting millions of people.

    We believe it is one reason some Democrats are starting to retreat.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, You give me a link for those "5 Obama lies", and I'll prove you've been duped.
  • AckAck
    Fly, what would I be voting for if I had a chance to vote and voted for this bullshit?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, COST! We have total agreement. So, what's the Conservative plan to bring down the cost of health care in America. You can name anyone you chose. Since I've been in the health insurance business for the last 18 years, I'll offer factual comment that you won't get on the LIEsites.
  • AckAck
    Fly, read my post. You take for granted I am promoting a "conservative plan" for this conglomerate! I said nothing about another plan. There is no acceptable plan! I simply stated a couple of the things wrong with Washington and how it effects what we currently have and anything we may have in the future. YOU CANNOT TAKE A BAG OF MARBLES ON TOP OF A HILL - TURN THEM LOSE AND EXPECT THEM TO LINE UP AND ALL GO THE SAME WAY DOWN THE HILL. That can be achieved, but only with a plan. OBAMA AND COMPANY HAS NO PLAN. They just seem to want to turn the marbles lose and hunt them up later... Look at who writes the plan, how quickly it can change, (overnight) who can change it and explain some of that to me please.

    This thing is totally screwed up now. What Obama should do if he is really concerned about ALL the people, not just a few, is trash this entire plan. Then go to the town hall meetings, for AMERICANS and ask the people what they want. Ask and listen, the people will tel him. I guarantee it would be better than any of the shit democrats are trying to convince people of right now. Which is absolutely nothing! Remember, once this thing is in motion, it won't be easy to say we don't want it anymore.
  • JulieSpears1
    I've just recently started using Twitter and FB, but from everything I've read, it appears to be a very useful tool forgetting your message out. I disagree with the observation that it's for kiddies, and with your premise that statistics are for losers. Statistics are what is used in the world to gauge all kinds of things, whether we like it or not. And believe me, as I'm not a numbers person I'd rather not. However, if the right questions are asked, statistics can serve to be a useful tool as well, as anyone who has taken a course on statistics can verify. To further advance this argument, I will only say that Twitter, FB and other social networking sites are in still in their infancy, so it remains to be seen as to how useful they will be for bloggers, etc. Stay tuned!
  • AckAck
    Julie, when you blog on UC, you are dealing with the most radical left wing liberals on the earth. I come here and try to display my feelings as a concerned American and everything you put here as a conservative, the liberals present here will call you lier, call you all kinds of names and shut you up anyway they can.

    Liberals are loosing the battle right now. The president's ratings are going down, his health care reform is being stopped and they have no other defense. They have to silence the opposition and they do that not by physical force but by shutting out anything you say. They just don't hear anything a person says if it has a conservative overtone to it.

    I am seriously concerned about my country right now because it is being changed so drastically that it scares me. I don't care what your political affilliaction is, I don't care what church you attend, I don't care what the color of your skin is, if you are not concerned about all that is happening, then you do not love America and our way of life.
  • JulieSpears1
    AckAck, Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad that liberals want to hang out on a conservative web site...that just means there isn't anything going on at the liberal sites. But nevertheless, they still should observe some basic rules of etiquette...especially if they actually have a point they are trying to make. Otherwise, the message just gets lost in their drivel and I, for one, won't take them seriously. But I suspect it might be fun sparring. When it comes to a battle of wits, they're unarmed!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Kinda like I visit your links, and report back. You refuse to visit mine, even if they come from a Conservative site like this: http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS...
  • AckAck
    Julie, good luck with your quest. These liberals are ACORN nuts and don't go away easy. I tell my wife sometimes that I am going to bug a liberal. I don't try to talk on a serious basis with any of them anymore. I just call them names back to a certain extent/ I usually do this until it gets boring and I go work on my website or something.
  • amber3
    ack you are a "corporation owner". What ever that means, I don't believe you. I must admit reading that post made me feel a little sorry for you. You are obviously an uneducated trailer park hick living in a fanticy world, but you keep dreaming my friend.
  • AckAck
    One
    Big
    Ass
    Mistake
    America

    Amber, the only contact you have ever had with anyone connected to a corporation you probably seen them on TV. If you have a TV that is. Otherwise, you wouldn't know what a corporation owner looks like.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, You want to change the structure of our government, go sue the Feds. Don't waste time here with your inane rants. Besides, even blue politely pointed out to you what the topic for this blog is. Take it somewhere else.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Extra,extra. Read all about it. Respected Conservative nationally syndicated writer Charles Krauthammer speaks to Sara Palin about "death panels" http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/21/... What say you, Ack, Aliy, blue and Leslie? Have you been Bushitted?
  • AckAck
    Hey Fish, Amber, Dora and the rest of you friggin liberals, go here and read your destiny:

    http://patriotupdate.com/exclusives/read/25/Han...

    Sorry to break this to you but you knew it anyway didn't you? You little rascals!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, you gotta be Bushitting me. Hannity-Palin for President? What a joke, one with no experience in office, the other lies and quits as a governor. Bring 'em on. lol
  • AckAck
    There you go again fly, LIE, LIE, LIE. That seems to be the center of your agenda.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, show me a LIEsite link, and I'll show you the lie.
  • AckAck
    Krauthammer is a phony jerk off. He isn't in my party!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Kill the messenger again, eh Ack. You deny that Krauthammer is a widely respected Conservative OP ED writer? Ha!
  • Dora
    Since Aliy was "elevated" from nincompoop poster to nincompoop "guest blogger" she has taken it upon herself to misrepresent items not even proposed in ANY of the health care proposals that have come out of committee, plop non-related issues on any post, and carry on with the name calling ( fascist, socialist agenda, references to Hitler and Nazi-ism, use of the term "obamacare", "nobama, nerobama, and other useless crap.

    I tried to explain to her the use of the word "suppose"... and it's difference from "supposed".
    She never got it.
    She still does not know the difference between to and too- among other things.

    It's dubious indeed, to take seriously anyone who is this ignorant- but not surprising that she should be elevated to "blogger" to free up the former host so that he could spend more time on the kiddie site: Twitter.
  • aliy
    Thank you so much Dora. I missed you're name calling. nincompoop is a good one! But, you didn't ask if I bathe in chocolate milk again! Where's the chocolate milk insult Dora?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, What's your take of this? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme...
  • aliy
    I don't really know, I guess us "teabagger" "birther" "brownshirts" aren't allowed our OWN form of rehtoric to make a point.

    This is the same with calling Obama "Hitler" it's a picture to put in someone's mind to make a stronger point.

    I guess she could have said "the retarded, the elderly and sick are going to be counciled on the wonderful use of Hospice as an alternative" but that just doens't make the point enough that that is WRONG. Don't get me wrong Hospice does wonderful work but that should be MY choice to dull my pain until I croak, my doctor shouldn't have monetary incentive to talk me into it.

    And when I say wrong I don't mean like untrue wrong (Obama a couple weeks ago ADMITTED it's in the bill, he ADMITTED, no, way PROUD it would pay doctors to council people that way, and he agreed to take it out if it's a real deal breaker so it WAS in there) It's wrong as in that's no way to treat the eldery, retarded or sick.

    Liberals want to say those of us not for this bill are cold hearted, I see liberals who ARE for this bill as cold hearted just by the fact that they are already talking about taking millions away from medicare (the estimate by the CBO last week was 1 in every 5 people would loose their medicare) to pay for this.

    Just a fact of life ANY county in the WORLD on a national health system rations. It's a pipe dream to think we have unlimited resources for this type of thing.

    When the government (either party) tries to pass these MASSIVE bills, they can't give someone a penny without first taking it from someone else. That is just a fact. Free is only Free to those who don't pay taxes.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Psssssssssssssssst, Aliy, How come you never answer me about this link below. Could it be that you've read the link, and now have backed off from the "death panels" lie? http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/21/...
  • AckAck
    O = One
    B = Big
    A = Ass
    M = Mistake
    A = America
  • AckAck
    Fish, what's wrong? Can't get anyone to visit your poop links?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What's the matter, choking on the truth here? http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/21/...
  • AckAck
    Fish, do you ever visit links like this?

    https://members.humaneventsonline.com/order.php...

    If so, let me know something.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Why do you send me such crap as an advertisement for a RNC LIEbook about Obama? Hell, they even copied the RNC name "culture of corruption" to use as the name of the book! How fuggen pathetic is that?
  • AckAck
    Fly, I'm not sure what you wanted me to get out of the article in your link. I copied and pasted it here hoping you can shed a little light on it. Perhaps something I don't see.

    When you throw Charles Krauthammer in the face of a conservative, its like putting miracle whip on a country boy's sandwich in place of mayonaise. It isn't good. He is a middle of the road columnist who is controversial to both parties, he writes for who ever pays him and he can sway either way to make his articles appear just a little one sided. Smart guy, unlike us, he makes big bucks for his articles.

    If you can take the time to explain to me what I was supposed to see in the article and how we got it into our conversation in the first place. Be nice now...

    Sarah Palin And Diaz Sr. - A Political Odd Couple On Health Care
    As former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin continues to stand by her "death panels" attack on President Obama's health care plan, she has found an unusual ally in Sen. Ruben Diaz Sr.

    In a message on her Facebook page, Palin quoted the conservative Bronx Democrat as she sought to push back against Obama's statement about the "rumor" that the House had voted in favor of panels that "will basically pull the plug on grandma."


    "Is this all just a “rumor” to be “disposed of”, as President Obama says?" Palin asked. "Not according to Democratic New York State Senator Ruben Diaz, Chairman of the New York State Senate Aging Committee, who writes:

    "Section 1233 of House Resolution 3200 puts our senior citizens on a slippery slope and may diminish respect for the inherent dignity of each of their lives....It is egregious to consider that any senior citizen...should be placed in a situation where he or she would feel pressured to save the government money by dying a little sooner than he or she otherwise would, be required to be counseled about the supposed benefits of killing oneself, or be encouraged to sign any end of life directives that they would not otherwise sign."


    Palin is quoting from a letter Diaz Sr. sent last month to California Rep. Henry Waxman, a key figure in the health care debate, which is posted on the senator's Web site.


    Oddly, she left out the part where the senator says HR 3200 "does not necessarily" support the idea that "each life must be cherished and regarded with reverence" - a concept you might think the two pols share, considering the fact that they both oppose abortion rights.

    Otherwise, the quotes are accurate, and the pieces she has left out don't detract from Diaz Sr.'s message in any way.

    I reached Diaz Sr. this afternoon and asked whether he knows or has been in touch with Palin. No, he said, but he has been in contact with her office. He also hopes to invite her to a health care hearing he plans to hold at 250 Broadway on Sept. 8.

    Diaz Sr. said he's going to invite people from both sides of the health care debate (if Palin's not available, another vocal Republican opponent, former LG Betsy McCaughey will do, he said) in hopes of figuring out "how positively or negatively this President Obama health care plan would effect seniors in this state because there are too many confusions."

    The senator said he's not holding out much hope that Palin will be able to fit his hearing into her busy schedule, but he's going to extend an invitation to her anyway.

    I asked if he was worried he might be upstaged by her if she does decide to show up, and he replied with a laugh:
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, What the hell do I care about what this CATHOLIC Diaz thinks. The Pope has told 'em they'll all go to hell if they pull their own plug while in St Margaret Mary Scared Heart Hospital. As usual, your posts are totally useless.
  • AckAck
    The months of arguments over President Obama's eligibility to occupy the Oval Office – based on the U.S. Constitution's requirement that the cheif executive be a "natural born" citizen – have been fueled both by the president's decision to withhold his original long-form birth certificate, thereby leaving some questions unanswered, and by arguments over just exactly what is a "natural born" citizen.

    Some argue that since Obama's father was a citizen of Kenya and thus a British subject in 1961, his son's birth in Hawaii that year would have granted Obama dual British-U.S. citizenship. Obama's campaign website admitted as much prior to the election.

    Attorney Mario Apuzzo, one of several lawyers filing lawsuits over Obama's eligibility to serve as president, believes the double claim on Obama's citizenship disqualifies him from fulfilling the requirement of Article 2, Section 1, of the Constitution, which states no person except a "natural born" citizen shall be eligible to the office of president.

    "'Natural born citizen' status requires not only birth on U.S. soil but also birth to parents who are both U.S. citizens," Apuzzo asserts on his website. "It is only by combining at birth in the child both means to inherit these two sources of citizenship that the child by nature and therefore also by law is born with only one allegiance and loyalty."

    According to Apuzzo, regardless of where Obama was born, regardless of whether he ever releases his long-form birth certificate, his father's citizenship status disqualifies him from being president.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, As usual, you make chit up as you go along. Krauhammer HAS ALWAYS BEEN a paid Conservative writer, and nationally sydicated to boot. So, if your too myopic to read what he said about liar Palin and her "death panels", jus tread the first couple of lines here: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/21/...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Poor ol' Ack. See here what Ants in the brain will do for ya. lmao http://mail.isp.netscape.com/email/scripts/inde...
  • Dora
    Aliy- you were the object of an impostor on these boards just as I was. Your continued reference to the chocolate milk bath after I have already noted to you that those were not my words- (and any individual who looks at the ISP of the impostor's words would already know this - UC did)- UC noted the problem and changed the workings of the site to attempt to resolve this. (The fact that it is now more difficult to locate posts inserted as a reply is a by-product of these changes and a reason why I may not reply to something directed at one of my posts- the reply is moved down and not seen on " recent comments" and generally missed by those of us not receiving all posts directed to our individual emails.- Frankly, I am not about to go through every single thread from the beginning to locate new posts. I don't have that sort of time- and I sure as hell have no interest in whether or not you elect to take the impostor's suggestions regarding bath taking- with or without chocolate. Don't flatter yourself, Aliy- you are just not all that.)
  • aliy
    You know, Dora, other than the little insult you just HAD to throw in there at the end, I actually agree with you on most of that!!!
  • aliy
    and that Patriots head is here, then it's gone, then it's here, then it's gone, yikes!!! So confusing.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, what the hell do you mean long form birth certificate?
  • AckAck
    A true copy asshole!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Read my lips. What exactly would be a "true copy" of a birth certificate that would satisfy a birther like you?
  • amber3
    Thanks Ally, nice to know he's (surprise) missed and appreciated! However, must cut in on the conflab.

    It's nice to know that people agree in democracy! Shame nobody votes!

    Where in the constitution though does it say health care is not a right or is precluded from being a right. The reality is that most laws from the massive to the mundane are passed without any constitutional reference or basis so to sideline health (actually a critical issue) as something that must reach a 2/3 majority seems to miss the issue and the point. We are not discussing a law that takes away fundamental rights! We are discussing a mechanism of providing health care to the many, we are not even discussing universally yet - imagine how that would go down!!!!!
  • aliy
    The rights are defined by the constitution. They are not prohibited by it. There is NO WHERE in the constitution where you'll find a list of "should not have's" you're only going to find the things you DO have.

    And there's a very clear, simple, legal process to get something ratified as a right. You want someone to recognize health care as a right, put it to a vote, 2/3 of the country says yeah it's yeah and there's nothing any conservative can do about it.

    There IS a fundamental right being taken away. It's the over stepping of the federal government to lay and collect taxes for the betterment of ONE instead of ALL. Our basic right to not be infringed upon by the federal government outside the enumerated powers of said government. Which is where liberals get the idea of single payer, if you take from all and force all on to it, you're now taking from all for the betterment of all.

    The 10th amendment gives the states the power over ANYTHING NOT specifically laid out in the constitution. If one state (oh, Mass comes to mind) wants to do this universal health care thing, let em but it's NOT a power the federal government has.

    I heard the senator from NH today on the radio and someone said "where does it say in the constitution this is a power the government has" and she ACTUALLY answered "It doesn't say the government should build roads either" which for those people NOT paying attention.....YES IT DOES. It says right in there one of the enumerated powers is to open post offices and post roads. It made her look really, really stupid, if you're going to snap back at someone, at least know what you're talking about.

    I think you Amber, see health care as something we should do for the people who really need it. I'm not against you on that. No conservative is. We're against the sweeping overhaul of the whole system. And laying the responsibility to oversee that to the government who can't figure out where my dad's social security checks have been going for the last year.

    You want to create competition? It would take a 1 page bill. 1 page, that's all you need. Get a way to get insurance companies to offer plans from Arizona to people in NY. Allow Me in Florida to buy the same plan as my friend in MD. It doesn't take 1,000 pages and a massive tax increase. All it takes is to address 1 issue at a time.

    Reform Tort law. I'm not saying if a doctor cuts off your leg he should walk. I'm saying the tort law that is completely destroying this country. The law suits that are crap. Like a lady spilling coffe on her lap and getting millions from McDonalds! A guy who uses preperation H by EATING IT. Throw those jackasses out of court and you're going to see tort law start to reform.

    There are little things you can do without a complete 1,000 page overhaul and we would be more than happy to discuss them with you but most liberals just want to come here and name call and say we're all racist because we're not behind Obama and say we hate poor people and wish they would all die because we don't want this bill. That's simply not true.
  • 2bluestarmom
    So anyway, this thread is about "Liberal bloggers admit conservatives have upper hand on Twitter"

    Anytime there is evidence that proves the radicals are inferior, they resort to the temper tantrum we see here.

    Typical, side stepping the issues.
  • flyfshr1cd
    2blue, More proof of Palin's lies here: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme... Can we count on you to "SIDE STEP ISSUES"?
  • flyfshr1cd
    2blue, Bushit to what you said about lib "temper tantrums", and side stepping issues. You refuse to respond to any of my posts, and I've answered every single one of yours. Here's your chance to prove me wrong re: liar Palin and "death panels" from one of your own writers: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/08/21/... Where's your dialogue, bible thumper?
  • budshotspot
    2blue, how right you are. That is the only reason they are here. Not for diaougue or anything else but radicalism.
  • aliy
    Good point 2blue. None of these people are going to be able to show us in the constitution where it says congress can pass whatever law they want and damn the people. It's just not in there.

    It never will be no matter how much they want to pay higer taxes, have crappier health care and give up control of their own lives to see everyone made equally miserable with them. The power to take from one to give to another is simply not in there.

    They are going to come back now and say I'm cold and I don't think we should have medicare and medicaid. That's the next phase of the argument, tell us we're cold hearted. Then there's some name calling, maybe repeating something Obama said in a press conference (you know how much they LOVE to quote HIM), then more name calling and they will never actually get around to showing us in the constitution where it says the fed gets the enumerated power to pass this monstrosity of a bill.
  • flyfshr1cd
    aliy, You and other Righties asked who can you believe? How are my posts anymore factual than yours? Real easy, kiddies. When you see quotation marks around a quote, it would be dumb to MISquote someone, and would invite a sure kill lawsuit. So, you need to read what Palin said in quotation marks below, and the same for Obama. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/stateme... Comment on this, or accept defeat.
  • JulieSpears1
    Would it be asking too much for the liberals (i.e. flyfshr1cd et. al) that want to post something actually stick to the articles and respond accordingly, without resorting to insults, inuendo and lies, which I might add is par for the course for liberals. If you truly had something worthwhile to add to the conversation, you would do so. Otherwise, get off our site and go to one of the liberal sites out there...if there's any left (no pun intended). How about a little RESPECT, common courtesy, and rules of netiquette please...
  • aliy
    You want a comment:

    Jackass.
  • amber3
    What kind of name ackackakckaniski anyway? it dont sound very American to me.
  • AckAck
    AckAck is a big ass gun... That's me!
  • aliy
    Hi Amber, haven't seen you around in a while. Nice to see you're back.

    Can you maybe show me in the constitution where health care is a right?

    No, Ok, well, you could put it to a vote and ratify it then it WOULD be part of our constitution (2/3 vote does it) and I would have to live with it, like it or not.

    Can you show me in the constitution where it says the federal government even gets the authority to do this?

    It's not one of the enumerated powers and in the 10th ammendment it says "anything not enumerated here falls to the states and the people". So, I'm guessing they legally can't pass something like this. Not without a vote of the people.

    But you know what, let's bring it to a vote, we can live with that. If you get 2/3's of the people to vote for your reform, you get it.So simple, we don't have to make it this complicated.

    There is a legal and constitutional way to do this without all this yelling and fighting. Put the bill out so people can read it (I found my copy online after hours of searching through opinion pieces but I DID finally find the actual bill) put it to a vote. 2/3's of the people want it, it gets ratified as a constitutional amendment. Surley you have faith that 2/3rds of the country are behind this bill?
  • AckAck
    Aliy, I'd like to see Amber's back, while she's on her way out...
  • aliy
    Now come on Ack, with all these new Acorn paid people running amuck on this site making complete asses of themselves, it's nice to see a REAL Liberal here every now and then.

    I for one appreciate someone who comes here and tries to make their view understood (no matter how misguided or crazy I think they are) but at Least Amber will not make up what's in your post like some of these other loons do.
  • budshotspot
    Aliy, I will give Amber a liberal "C" on my card. I guess that is the highest score I have given to a liberal thus far. I'd have to check to see but I'm pretty sure of it.

    My big problem with liberals is they NEVER agree with anything except their own agenda. Sometimes if they think a conservative agrees with them on something, they disagree with that! Even if it is on their agenda. Go figure, huh?

    I don't have the patience, nor do I have the desire to listen to their BS. That's about 99.9% of what everything they say is. PURE BS! I admire you in as much as you have a lot more patience than I do. Although, I like it when you go off on them. LOL
  • aliy
    I don't think many get above a C with me either but at least she doesn't claim we said things we never said. If she's calling us out it's for something we DID say.

    The one's that get me are the ones that make up stuff they think we might mean based on what we say. Like when I say I think lazy people should get off their asses, they THINK I said I want to see the poor DIE!
  • amber3
    speeking of ackacjakackacka, where is your birth certificate?
  • AckAck
    Amber, are you in love with me? Do you miss me when I'm not here? You little devil you.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I expect your boy Franks has put an end to your nonsense here: http://www.examiner.com/x-3108-Baltimore-Republ... Read n weep.
  • amber3
    You don't understand ackackakckakckakck. for me this is a non issue, I have never seen the birth certificate, nor do I care to. I assume this issue was addressed during the vetting process some time before the primary. You can rant on all you want on the matter, you're only preaching to the quire.
  • AckAck
    If you are interested at all in TRUTH, you would be interested in the Birth Certificate. THERE IS NO FUCKING BIRTH CERTIFICATE and you asshole liberals are ignoring that little fact. You just blow it off, like so many other things and ignore it! HE HOLDS THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THIS LAND AND YOU PEOPLE ARN'T INTERESTED IF HE'S THERE LEGAL OR NOT? Get a life.

    By the way, I am a corporation owner to so I could afford to file a personal law suit and make his ass show it - if he has one...
  • flyfshr1cd
    AckAck; Bwaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa. You're the one who said here that you've seen his birth cert, and called it phony because it wasn't the "long form". When I asked you to explain what that was, you clammed up. So let's see your birth cert, so that we know what a real one is. OBTW, cool it with the potty mouth, you don't wish to get reported, do you?
  • budshotspot
    Fish Fry, go to my web site and click on birth certificate, there you will see a real Hawaiian birth certificate and then you can look at the jerk off one they floated around for Obama. THEN SHUT THE FUCK UP!
  • flyfshr1cd
    oh hey, Ack. Why don't you file a law suite like that disingenuous Trent Franks Bushitter in R-AZ, says he's "thinking about doing" to demand Obama's "real" birth cert... Better yet, you claim to be a man with two motorhomes on your carport, why not finance his lawsuite. ROFLMAO
  • amber3
    ack ack and i suppose you could authenticate it if you could just examine it for yourself, i dont believe you would ever be satisfied.
  • flyfshr1cd
    amber3, Ack is more patriotic than all us libs combined. If he can prove that Obama wasn't born in the U.S, I'll kiss his hairy wrinkled butt!
  • AckAck
    Over my dead body liberal!!!
  • AckAck
    Amber, you show me the real one or tell me where to go to see it. There isn't one and you know it to. You're just another drool sucking liberal that can't see the truth! Truth is, there is no credable birth certificate as of yet. I am an American citizen, I am a tax payer, Obama is my president and I can demand to insure he is elgible for the office he holds. EVERY AMERICAN should be as loyal to this country...
  • flyfshr1cd
    Hey Ack, You need to explain to us what a REAL birth certificate looks like. Better yet, sned me a copy of yours at [email protected]. I'm always willing to learn, you?
  • AckAck
    Fry Fly Fish, you're so obviously being a liberal and ignoring facts and trying to make it alright. Like you liberal folk do sooooo many things.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, Until the structure of our government is changed, the laws apply to you and your kind.
  • AckAck
    Fish Fry, the only PHONEY BIRTH CERTIFICATE that has ever been posted on the web is a computer generated certificate. I have a copy of it on my web site. Show me a real one and not the one that is floating around that the white house now denys putting on the web. Give me a link.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, you've truly lost it. You expect me to deliver to you the original birth certificate of Obama's birth in Hawaii? You just got to be joking!
  • AckAck
    Fly, why not? He is the president and I can show you all the others... Why not this one? Answer that for me, please.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, I've seen his birth certificate in the newspapers. If it wasn't legit, your party's legislators would have been all over it. If you have proof that he doesn't have a legit cert, proove it!
  • AckAck
    Fly, read Amber's post and all the other liberals about Obama's birth certificate. You blow it off by saying "Oh, it has been all over the Internet" or "He's produced one a dozen times" but you never show those ones you're talking about. WHERE IS THE FUCKING BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
  • aliy
    Until the structure of government is changed the fed doesn't have the POWER to pass this bill. Show me Fly, still waiting for you to show me in the constitution where it says "congress can pass whatever law they feel like and damn the people" Still waiting.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Get a grip, Ack. God knows I'm a liberal, and he's whispered in my ear that I need to spread the truth to get into heaven.
  • AckAck
    You're absolutely right Fly, God does know you are a liberal. Need I say more?
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, I've proved that you lie, and spin. Get off the RADICAL idea that Congress can't make laws.
  • aliy
    Radical, Radical, beliefe in our CONSTITUTION is radical?! You sound like an ass now. You want to say lie and spin, show me in the constitution where it say Congress gets the power to do whatever the hell they want? You Can't because it's NOT IN THERE. You have NO CLUE how this country works, you don't know the first thing about being an American you haven't read the constitution, the bill of rights or the declaration of independence which I think are the 3 most important documents in the world and you're trying to tell ME I'm a liar?! Find if Fly, Find the part of the constitution that gives the congress the right to do whatever the hell they want. It is YOU sir who is lying.

    This coversation is over until you can show me in the constitution where it says "congress can do whatever the hell they want and damn the people".
  • Manfromthemountains
    WASHINGTON – U.S. Rep. Trent Franks, R-Arizona, told a townhall meeting in Kingman yesterday he is considering a lawsuit to establish Barack Obama's eligibility for the presidency.

    Franks said there is conflicting evidence on the question of Obama's status as a "natural born citizen."

    His allusion to the possibility of a lawsuit forcing release of Obama's original, long-form birth certificate is as far as any member of Congress has gone on this issue.

    The eligibility issue was one of the hottest topics at the town hall meeting that included concerns about national defense, stimulus spending, health-care bills and the "cash-for-clunkers" program.

    Franks said it would take 34,000 years to pay off the indebtedness incurred by the Obama administration. READ THE FULL ARTICLE ON THE PATRIOT UPDATE
  • flyfshr1cd
    More "birther" nonsense. Obama's birth certificate has appeared on the internet, and in newspapers. This is just more drivel for droolers. Trent Franks is Bushchitting you.
  • AckAck
    You see Fly, you are the maggot crawling around in Obama's drool. There has not been a birth certificate produced as of this day. You know it, yet you continue to accept anything that administration throws your way. What a looser...
  • AckAck
    Fly, where can I see this long form, authentic birth certificate?
  • Manfromthemountains
    Hello ya'll,

    Mountainman here. Straight from the hills of Eastern Kentucky. Who did you say was the president now? Oh, that Bin Laden character huh? I thought he was dead or something. Didn't he buy it in some foreign country? Oh well, never mind - that's not why I am here.

    As we say in Kentucky, if it walks and talks like a cow, if it eats and sleeps like a cow, and if it moos like a cow - - - - - - - it just might be a cow. Not that cows are bad, that is just a saying we have here in Kentucky. We have cows though, not lots of them like them big rancher guys out west, we really don't have enough for a cattle drive so we came up with this other thing we call a "Liberal Drive." Once a year, on election day, we let them come into the little town I live in. Immediately after the voting poles are closed, we heard them up and drive them out of town. It's fun for the kids and wives. They line up on each side of the road that leads out of town with their squirt guns, sling shots and BB guns. We finally had to ban the BB guns and sling shots, the liberals were loosing too many eyes so we quit that. They only can use their squirt guns and hurl dung bombs now. I admit, it took a lot of the fun out of it but a man has got to do what a man has to do I guess.

    We just might make a holiday out of it. We could call it "Liberal Day in Happy Kentucky." Maybe we can have a contest and get some names from this computer old Dave gave us. He died last week you know? Or, maybe you don't know. Anyway, don't matter we got the computer before he left.

    I have an Ant Gracie that supposed to do this kind of stuff, blogging and all. Do you think she will get this message? I sure hope so, we haven't seen her since she ran away with cousin Bill. Oh well, she will show up again you wait and see.

    Anyone that wants to say howdy to me can do it on this computer. I will say howdy back.

    Thanks.
  • aliy
    Socialsm, and the problems with it.

    A socialist society believes no one should have more than anyone else. If 1 files coach, we should ALL fly coach. That's great but Pelosi has her own Gulfstream jet. She wants the rest of us to sign on to her making us miserable while she gets fatter than a cow. The problem with socialism is the only people with money will be the leaders who are forcing the rest of us to live without it. Practice what you preach and maybe we'll consider it.
  • flyfshr1cd
    aliy, Obama is no socialist, and your side is lying about health care reform.
  • AckAck
    Fly Fry, BIT ME dummie!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Back to inane schoolboy insults, eh?
  • AckAck
    Bite me Fly!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Snappy comeback, Ack. Did Ann Coulter teach you that one?
  • AckAck
    Fish Fry, BIT ME nut case!
  • aliy
    Still not an enumerated power of the federal government, still not in the constitution for them to do this. You can make all the claims of LYING you want. It still doesn't change the fact that this is NOT a power the federal government has.
  • AckAck
    Aliy, you're right on with this nut case. He can kiss mine...
  • aliy
    How Obama got elected:

    McCain promised whatever it was he promised, Obama promised everyone ice cream! No idea how he was going to pay for it, but he promised it. All those liberals, like 9 year olds, want their ice cream and voted for him. No idea who's going to pay for the ice cream, they just want what they were promised.

    The problem with the government giving something to someone is that they first had to take it from someone else.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, Afriad to answer my posts?
  • flyfshr1cd
    billyLevine, Obama has no plan to socialize America, and there's no industry controlled by the Feds. You're still being Bushchitted.
  • AckAck
    Flyfshr, when you attend church this Sunday, ask God if you REALLY BELIEVE what you just said!
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ack, Will you tell your God that you've been intellectually dishonest by ignoring my posts, and insulting me?
  • AckAck
    Fry, I tried that, he said, and I quote - "He's a liberal, I know him not." Not good Fry, not good for you.
  • flyfshr1cd
    AckAck, I have no problem with my God. I believe facts that appear in breaking news stories from nationally syndicated news agencies. Breaking News stories cannot confirm lies from LIEsites.Example: Do a Google on any of the lies that you've repeated without knowing it. Do a fact check on "death panels", George Soros contributed 5 million to Obama. Come back and tell me what you find. Is that fair? Otherwise, post a link from what you've read which was represented to you as "truth", and I'll prove otherwise.
  • AckAck
    Why?
  • aliy
    Here Ack I'll post what I found:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/08/12/200...

    If this was just a millionaire doing this stuff that would be a wonderful human interest story but they say it's also STIMULUS money. Now, when our taxes go up to pay for the stimulus bill, no one's going to make the connection that it was tax dollars being given to these kids and parents.

    "death panels" and all that stuff you're quoting is metaphors for what is in the bill. Like a committe which will determine your benefits. Or the hospice as a viable alternative they were going to PAY doctors to discuss with patients. There was an actual incentive for doctors to get older people to go the hospice route. They took it out two weeks ago after putting on "reality check" that it's simply not in there.

    This all boils down to common sense. You have a boat, it can hold 100 people, you're trying to put 10 million on it. It's not going to hold, who do you throw over board, the old and sick. Otherwise, it sinks with the rest of us on it.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Hey Aliy, the Daily News link you gave proves that Soros is a true humanitarian. You have a problem with that? Also, you still can't prove that Soros gave 5 million to Obama to promote health care reform. OBTW, "death panels" is no metaphor, it's a flat out LIE! Got that, Ack?
  • AckAck
    Fish Fry, BITE ME nut bag!
  • aliy
    I know Ack, he's like a little baby who's going to throw anything at you to have the last word (no matter how wrong it is) There are times liberals just make me very tired and sad that they are that dense. Trying to have a civilized conversation with them is just useless they are not civilized at all.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, Easy to prove you wrong about "death panels", and your lie that Obama has removed the clause that allows counseling for the terminally ill patient. http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck I defy you to prove me wrong.
  • aliy
    you defy me? Please, I defy YOU to show me in the constitution (you know that thing Obama swore to uphold when he took his oath of office) you show me where he gets the right to do this. You can't. It's simply NOT an enumerated power of the federal government.
  • flyfshr1cd
    aliy, You constitutional droolers are too mucking fuch. The total structure of our government allows Congress to make laws. Take it up with the Cons in office, or sue, while I'm lmao.
  • aliy
    You're lauging like a fool because you have not read the constitution, bill of rights or the declaration of independance. Once you read them you will see you are wrong. So, laugh like the ignorant (by that I mean, knows NOTHING about what he's talking about) fool you are. I carry copies of ALL THREE in my back pocket, Can you carry the 10 pilars of communism in yours?

    Being so against the constitution when it's he basis for our country only shows you are Not an American by any standard of the definition. Did Obama's Oath to uphold it mean NOTHING?! Why would you even take an oath you don't believe in.

    He stood there with his hand on a bible and SWORE to uphold it. If you and your ilk don't like the constitution, maybe you should have let us real American's know before your guy took an oath under false pretenses.

    Anyone who doesn't believe in the constitution is a traitor and a communist, facist, or socialist, or whatever name you like but you're certainly NOT an American.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Ideological rubbish. You want to overthrow the U.S. system of government, and you call your self a patriot?
  • aliy
    What the hell are you TALKING about? I want them to do it BY the US system of government NOT skirt the oath, not skirt the constitution, use the powers they were given in the way they were given, it is YOU sir, who want to overthrow the US system of government.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Aliy, Which are you, and why have you chosen to be so? conservative - resistant to change
    orthodox - adhering to what is commonly accepted; "an orthodox view of the world"
    right - of or belonging to the political or intellectual right
    liberal - tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition anyone else?
  • aliy
    You've asked a civilized question, I can give you civilized answer (even though I know you're going to come back and tell me Hannity told me to say it)

    I'm a conservative, I am a no party affiliation because I don't think any of the assholes in Washington have it right. However, if you want me to really define myself, I'm a "constitutional supporter" I believe in the living breathing document this country was founded on and the powers it gives both the federal and state governements and I don't like to see either of them over stepping bounds.

    It was argued by Jessie Jackson Jr. the other day that conservatives believe they have a "right" to carry a gun (yeah, second amendment, don't really have to look hard to find it) well, he believes there should be a "right" to health care.

    You want that, get an amendment, all it takes is 2/3 of the country to vote to ratify an amendment and if or not I like it, I have to live with it. It's the process laid out by our founding fathers and how stuff really gets done in this country. Follow the procedure if you want it done right.

    However, even IF you do that. The second amendment gives me the right to carry a gun, it doesn't give the federal governement the right to tax YOU to provide me with one. See where the dliema is on that one? Even if you get an amendment passed that health care is a "right" it's still not going to give them the power to tax me to give that to you.

    so, for all the talk of death panels, and hospice shoots and links and opinons, it all boils down in the end to the governement is NOT afforded that power by the constitution and that should end the argument right there. I've told you how to change it legally, now instead of arguing with me, go out and rally your side to apply for an ammendment, vote, pass it, then we can talk. But until then, they simply don't have the power to do any of the stuff they are trying to pull out of their asses.
  • billyLevine
    Osama bin Obama's grand scheme to federalize America is scary - more than it seems to those who still hang on to the belief that it could never happen here. "It" is your worst nightmare -worse than federal healthcare; worse than federal takeover of our financial institutions; worse than that dirty word - socialism. When the lame duck Bush administration salvaged what was left of our economic train wreck by subsidizing the banks it was never the intent to extend emergency federal controls to America's industrial complex. In retrospect, we were all extremely naieve and subject to fear inspired tunnel vision; so much so that no one questionned the source of Obama's $16 million two month pre-election windfall. No one raised the red flag when this polished unknown crawled out from the woodwork and swept the country off its feet. No one asked where all that money came from during a period when there was no money. Now, the momentum of the left is silently eating away at the foundations of democracy - like a cancer yet to be detected.

    There are forces operating now that have more power and influence than Obama himself, his cabinet and both legislative branches. They appear innocent enough and who, I ask, would ever consider an innocuous internet provider as a threat to national security?

    Nate Timmons writes satire and political commentary - he freelances most of his work. Since writing is his only source of income, I assumed he might be suffering financially as a result of our economic crisis. Not the case at all.

    “I’m getting more published now than ever,” he told me, “I guess the cost to maintain large staffs of full time writers is causing some print media to scale back a bit. Since empty space is an editor’s nightmare, they are much more willing to run freelance content. I can sell 20 articles to the New York Times for a fraction of the cost to pay a staff journalist. That surprised me but what he told me next chilled me to the bone.

    “This past year, I have been openly critical of Google. They have no customer support and no technical support either. So...if you have a problem Google refers you to “User Help Groups,” and these are nothing more than glorified chat lines. The participants unknowingly act as crash test dummies for new and supposedly improved programs launched by Google. These crash test dummies don’t have solutions to problems but they do identify the bugs for Google. When you think about it, the idea is brilliant; saving Google millions that would otherwise be spent on technical support personnel.”

    All well and good according to Timmons, but there is a glitch. If you have a problem today, chances are you won’t get a solution for months, or maybe never. Timmons viewed it all as elaborate camouflage that made Google appear to be an Internet giant.

    “My take on all of it was naive. Google identified me as a troublemaker and that’s when it hit the fan.” Google unloaded on Timmons with every weapon at their disposal, and there are many. Skeptical? Try cancelling your Google accounts. Watch and see what happens when you refuse to use Google’s desktop toolbar. Click on cancel when Google’s desktop sign in appears on your screen.

    Initially, Timmons contends that Google fabricated a hijacking of his GMail account. He began receiving malicious subject headers that camouflaged ads for a Canadian pharmacy. When he complained to Google’s “Abuse” e-mail address, all he received in response were automated form letters directing him to the crash test dummies. The messages sent to him from his own address carried warnings from Google but Timmons realized there was a bigger problem.

    “Google was aiding and abetting this by continuing to deliver fraudulent mail to me. I had to question why they would do that. They were attempting to bully me into submission - that part was obvious but they were also inflating their user account numbers; deceiving advertisers and large bulk mailers. When I attempted to fight back by sending a detailed article to the Washington Post, Google stopped it cold...censored me. It opened a can of worms that included the right to free speech and issues of privacy and intimidation. I was stunned. Rights to free speech and privacy are cornerstones of democracy - Google was literally overriding our constitution.”

    The last message Timmons received was from his address to someone he had never heard of...implying that his own address had formally been taken over by internet pirates that Timmons believes are actually Google employees. The clincher came when he attempted to send an e-mail to the FBI.

    “Google actually made my message disappear. I made some changes in the text and indicated that I had used postal mail as a backup. Finally they let the message go through...or did they? Google has the power to fabricate anything and contrary to my initial opinions, they practically own the Internet. For all practical purposes, they own us.”

    Frightening? You bet. Google may be at the forefront of an industrial dictatorship. Those of us who value our freedom and said it could never happen here may be in for a devastating surprise.

    Wake up, America. Our freedom is being stripped away by a faceless monster that controls the single most important component of our infrastructure - the Internet. If we allow electronic thugs like Google to do as they please, we may be opening a door that should have been padlocked long ago.

    Was it Bin Laden that said the next major attack would come from within?
  • flyfshr1cd
    We won't be hearing from the Leslie grl because I caught her in several lies she's posted from Conservative LIEsites. I make no apology for making a deliberate liar pop.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Maybe the facts grl Leslie is about to get a dose of em bareass. All you need to do is prove that HCAN "confirmed the donation". Don't be doing a cut n paste from the LIEsite where you read that, since you clam in comes from HCAN, post the link from that site. Not that you deserve reminding, but I already gave you the proof of Tea Part funding here: http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/13/corporate-lob...
  • billyLevine
    flyfshr1cd,

    You're really pushing Leslie girl. She might pop. Oh well. I know this dangerous, but I had an idea. See, Obama is working overtime for nothing.

    Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, emphysema, mental illness, serial killers, killers who kill without the box tops, drug cartels, drug dealers, drug users, car accidents, war, terrorism, pornography, pedophiles, weapons of mass destruction, all addictions, death regardless of cause, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanoes, global warming, shoplifting, corruption, incompetence, incontinence, impotence...the list is endless. Is it any wonder that we have no visitors? What might the gossip about Earth be?

    “Is it true that on Earth bad is good?”
    “Too scary for me, Xtlop. I heard they have wars by mistake.”
    “No, go without me. Cigarettes cost almost $10 a pack.”
    “Flunubulus went. He said the big country couldn’t pay its utility bill.”
    “Yeah, and what about that Leslie itch? It might be communicable.”
    “Nah. I heard it’s just an abbreviation for stupidity.”

    Now...let’s pretend for a moment that none of the bad things exist. Not even Leslie H. How many jobs were eliminated? Millions...maybe billions? More? Where would all the auto mechanics work if cars were built to last more than 3 years? And if we abandoned internal combustion, who would employ all of the military and civilian personnel required to protect oil interests in the Middle East? Yes, we’re talking about millions more in lost jobs.

    The money paid out in salaries to stem the tide of the “bad” could be used to make the world a better bad place. Sounds reasonable. Sadly, we don’t want the world to be a better place. That’s why we don’t have cures for diseases - we have pills...just pills. There are a lot of people employed in the pill business.

    Make the planet a better place? How? Un-employ the world? The only people working would be Norman Coleman and Rod Blagojovich, both paid (food stamps) to find jobs that don’t exist for people that never wanted to work anyway.

    So get this...the system we have that perpetuates death and despair...it works. It really works! And if it ‘aint broke, don’t fix it.
  • Chris Doyle
    AckAck, Once again, I ask for a link, and you provide an unidentified, unsubstantiated, vitriolic rant. WHEN you finally provide a link for that tripe, you'll get a full debate. Make my day!
  • AckAck
    Chris, this link I provided is about as conservative as your's is liberal. How can we get together on these things?
  • billyLevine
    Hey Ack Ack,

    Don't you think you'd have done better if you stayed on turf? And what did happen to Mr. Bubbles? I swear, this new format seems to have taken the life out of the blog...or did it take the blog out of the life? All I know is this: Obama was given a free ride in 2008 - the GOP being smart enough to tank the election and bring Palin back in 2012 WITHOUT RESTRICTOR PLATES!. By then, Obama and his healthcare scam will have taken the pipe - hopefully Obama's friends will leave him some residue to scrape.
  • AckAck
    Ah Soooo, my rel name achmandennabud. (I operate under cover right now - don't tell no one huh?) I remember you my friend. How are you been? I are been good... I do not like Bomma nor his side kiks! Dey too, too, too, too, dey too somethin four me. I like Bush better. My dog done like dem either. My goat don't either. Day hate dem all - sons-of-a-biches. Day destroy my home and de land it sat on... Dem son-of-a-biches. I don't like dem. Gotta get dem spyders outta my bed. Cee you friend.
  • Chris Doyle
    Dept. of Energy. AckAck, dunno if you've paused to consider, but YOUR party has had ample opportunity to chitcan that Dept. if they chose to. What about NASA? One of the worst self serving bureaucracies that I know of, with nothing to show for their efforts since landing on the moon over 45 years ago. When you try to link Health Care to failed government efforts, you need to compare with Medicare, if you know anything about it.
  • aliy
    Chris, you can't justify your parties failures by pointing out someone elses. When you failed a test in school did you turn around and say "well, Johnny failed too!" and somehow that got you an A? I don't think so.

    You have to stop using other peoples failures to justify your own short comings. That goes for ALL liberals including the one in the white house.

    Or maybe you want to say it's all Bush's fault health care is a mess? Why not, you liberals blame him for everything else. "My bananas turned brown, it's all Bushes fault!" We're use to it.
  • AckAck
    Chris, I did not blame this on anyone in either party. You seem to want to blame my party. My president is your president, like it or not. This is a problem with the way things are handled in Washington - PEIOD! It only started with Carter and has ran through several administrations, both democrat and republican. OUR GOVERNMENT IS BROKE. Let's you, I and Dora work together as Americans and fix it. Let's come together and fix it... Think we can do that without killing each other?
  • Chris Doyle
    How to smoke out Bushchit on LIEsites: The paid writing hacks don't want to be sued for defamation of character, so they hang their dirty laundry with qualifying words and phrases like "reportedly", "some say", "our policy analysts have determined" , "our confidential sources tell us", "we all know", "it's common knowledge that", or "Faux News reports that" before launching into character assassination. Hit 'em when they're up, hit 'em when they're down, hit 'em when they're up, hit 'em all around. ................and you all scream BRING US DIRTY LAUNDRY. Post any RNC link here, and I'll prove my point.
  • AckAck
    Chris, since you are so hung out on reading material posted on links, tell me what you think of this one taken from Human Events:

    Right now, something is happening in America that, try as they might, the liberal media can't stop simply by distorting or ignoring it.

    I'm talking about the surging opposition to President Obama's plans to "remake" America (his word) from an independent republic of freedom-loving, self-reliant citizens into a Euro-socialist nanny state.

    Call it a backlash. Call it a counter-revolution. Call it a conservative comeback. Call it what you will -- but it's real, it's massive, and it's about to boil over into something the liberals can't deny any longer.

    How do I know? Because it's my job, as editor in chief of HUMAN EVENTS, to report on things that the liberal media won't.

    And everywhere my staff and I look these days we see the signs of this extraordinary political uprising...
    IN THE POLLS showing a sudden and dramatic erosion in President Obama's approval ratings -- and an even steeper, faster decline in support for his neo-socialist policies

    ON THE STREETS of mainstream America where "tea party" tax protests and other expressions of populist outrage are spreading like wildfire from town to town, city to city nationwide

    IN STATEHOUSES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS where voters are forcing legislators -- by popular referendum if necessary -- to roll back the tax-and-spend policies that have brought so many states and localities to the brink of bankruptcy

    ON THE AIRWAVES where conservative TV and radio personalities such as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity are soaring to new heights of popularity -- while the ratings for liberals like Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman are plummeting

    ON THE BESTSELLER LISTS where books like Mark Levin's " Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto" and "Glenn Beck's Common Sense" have dominated for months, outselling liberal tomes by hundreds of thousands

    AND EVEN, AT LONG LAST, IN CONGRESS where, after years of selling out conservative principles, a small but growing number of Republicans are loudly voicing and voting those principles once again -- despite the loud complaints of the liberal media.
    What's driving this extraordinary phenomenon? In a word -- outrage.

    After trusting Barack Obama's soothing promises, and the media's constant reassurances, that once in office he would "transcend" partisan politics, Americans quickly realized they had elected the most radical leftist ever to serve as President of the United States.

    They also realized that for all Obama's talk of "transparency" and "accountability," his administration was creating the conditions for a level of political sleaze, corruption and back-room wheeling-and-dealing far worse than anything Washington has seen in a very long time.

    And now that the gap between Obama's smooth-talking rhetoric and his actual performance has finally become plain to anyone but the most besotted of his admirers, Americans have had enough.
    They have had enough of the out-of-control spending on bailouts and "stimulus" that have sent the federal deficit soaring to $1.8 trillion for 2009 alone -- and even higher down the road -- threatening to bankrupt our nation, destroy our currency, and impoverish our descendents for generations to come

    They have had enough of Obama's crusade to replace private healthcare with a government-run system that will empower federal bureaucrats to make life-and-death decisions about your medical care -- and that will put all your private medical records in a government database (don't worry, they promise never to use them to harm you)

    They have had enough of Obama's proposed tax hikes and tax "surcharges" to pay for all his spending programs that will drive U.S. tax rates higher even than the welfare-state economies of Europe (New Yorkers, for instance, could face a combined federal-state income tax rate of nearly 60 percent)

    They have had enough of the appalling rogue's gallery of crooks, cronies, tax cheats, and political big-spending leftists that Obama has appointed to the highest levels of our government -- while firing or abruptly "retiring" official government watchdogs who have blown the whistle on his cronies and their schemes

    They have had enough of the outrageous threats to investigate and prosecute Bush-era anti-terrorist agents and officials for the heroic work they did in keeping our country safe

    They have had enough of the endless procession of unelected "czars" President Obama has appointed -- 32 at last count! -- to bring one sector after another of our economy and government under his direct control (come to think of it, why don't we just call him "Czar Obama"?)

    They have had enough, in short, of how President Obama and his allies are rapidly destroying so much of what has made our country prosperous and free -- while arrogating to themselves a degree of power that would make Hugo Chavez blush.
    And what about you, my friend? Have you had enough? Are you ready to join the swelling ranks of Americans who are determined to put a stop to this madness? Are you ready to add your voice to theirs in demanding an end to this assault on our liberties... an end to this era of fiscal insanity... an end to this government "of the cronies, by the cronies, and for the cronies"?

    If you are -- if you are among those who refuse to tolerate even for one more day what is happening in our nation's capital, then I have only one thing to ask of you... Join the conservative counter-revolution today
  • Chris Doyle
    Wow, AckAck, you gotta see what I just found at your favorite LIEsite from one the best known nationally syndicated Conservative writer's too:
    Print Forward Feedback Facebook LinkedIn Digg Subscribe

    94

    Comments
    Let's Be Honest About Death Counseling
    by Charles Krauthammer
    08/21/2009


    Let's see if we can have a reasoned discussion about end-of-life counseling.

    We might start by asking Sarah Palin to leave the room. I've got nothing against her. She's a remarkable political talent. But there are no "death panels" in the Democratic health care bills, and to say that there are is to debase the debate.
  • AckAck
    Absolutely the funniest joke ever... BUT IT'S ON US !!!




    Let it sink in.

    Quietly, we go like sheep to slaughter.
    Does anybody out there have any memory of the reason given for the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY ...... during the Carter Administration?

    Anybody?
    Anything?
    No?
    Didn't think so!
    Bottom line .. we've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of an agency the reason for which not one person who reads this can remember.

    Ready???????

    It was very simple...

    and at the time everybody thought it very appropriate...




    The 'Department of Energy' was instituted on

    8-04-2023
    TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Hey, pretty efficient, huh?????
    AND NOW IT'S 2009,

    32 YEARS LATER ...

    AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS

    NECESSARY DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR!

    IT HAS

    16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES
    AND APPROXIMATELY
    100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES

    AND LOOK AT THE JOB IT HAS DONE!
    THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY,
    'WHAT WAS I THINKING?'
    Ah, yes, good ole bureaucracy..



    And NOW we are going to turn the Banking System, Health Care & the Auto Industry over to them? Do you think I want health care reform from these guys?
  • aliy
    Ah, Ack, you totally beat me to the punch on that one!!! I just looked up the whole department of energy history a little while ago specifically to confirm something someone said to me yesterday!!!
  • AckAck
    Chris, a link for you:

    http://www.faxdc.com
  • AckAck
    Chris, since you are so hung out on reading material posted on links, tell me what you think of this one taken from Human Events:

    Right now, something is happening in America that, try as they might, the liberal media can't stop simply by distorting or ignoring it.

    I'm talking about the surging opposition to President Obama's plans to "remake" America (his word) from an independent republic of freedom-loving, self-reliant citizens into a Euro-socialist nanny state.

    Call it a backlash. Call it a counter-revolution. Call it a conservative comeback. Call it what you will -- but it's real, it's massive, and it's about to boil over into something the liberals can't deny any longer.

    How do I know? Because it's my job, as editor in chief of HUMAN EVENTS, to report on things that the liberal media won't.

    And everywhere my staff and I look these days we see the signs of this extraordinary political uprising...
    IN THE POLLS showing a sudden and dramatic erosion in President Obama's approval ratings -- and an even steeper, faster decline in support for his neo-socialist policies

    ON THE STREETS of mainstream America where "tea party" tax protests and other expressions of populist outrage are spreading like wildfire from town to town, city to city nationwide

    IN STATEHOUSES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS where voters are forcing legislators -- by popular referendum if necessary -- to roll back the tax-and-spend policies that have brought so many states and localities to the brink of bankruptcy

    ON THE AIRWAVES where conservative TV and radio personalities such as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity are soaring to new heights of popularity -- while the ratings for liberals like Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman are plummeting

    ON THE BESTSELLER LISTS where books like Mark Levin's " Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto" and "Glenn Beck's Common Sense" have dominated for months, outselling liberal tomes by hundreds of thousands

    AND EVEN, AT LONG LAST, IN CONGRESS where, after years of selling out conservative principles, a small but growing number of Republicans are loudly voicing and voting those principles once again -- despite the loud complaints of the liberal media.
    What's driving this extraordinary phenomenon? In a word -- outrage.

    After trusting Barack Obama's soothing promises, and the media's constant reassurances, that once in office he would "transcend" partisan politics, Americans quickly realized they had elected the most radical leftist ever to serve as President of the United States.

    They also realized that for all Obama's talk of "transparency" and "accountability," his administration was creating the conditions for a level of political sleaze, corruption and back-room wheeling-and-dealing far worse than anything Washington has seen in a very long time.

    And now that the gap between Obama's smooth-talking rhetoric and his actual performance has finally become plain to anyone but the most besotted of his admirers, Americans have had enough.
    They have had enough of the out-of-control spending on bailouts and "stimulus" that have sent the federal deficit soaring to $1.8 trillion for 2009 alone -- and even higher down the road -- threatening to bankrupt our nation, destroy our currency, and impoverish our descendents for generations to come

    They have had enough of Obama's crusade to replace private healthcare with a government-run system that will empower federal bureaucrats to make life-and-death decisions about your medical care -- and that will put all your private medical records in a government database (don't worry, they promise never to use them to harm you)

    They have had enough of Obama's proposed tax hikes and tax "surcharges" to pay for all his spending programs that will drive U.S. tax rates higher even than the welfare-state economies of Europe (New Yorkers, for instance, could face a combined federal-state income tax rate of nearly 60 percent)

    They have had enough of the appalling rogue's gallery of crooks, cronies, tax cheats, and political big-spending leftists that Obama has appointed to the highest levels of our government -- while firing or abruptly "retiring" official government watchdogs who have blown the whistle on his cronies and their schemes

    They have had enough of the outrageous threats to investigate and prosecute Bush-era anti-terrorist agents and officials for the heroic work they did in keeping our country safe

    They have had enough of the endless procession of unelected "czars" President Obama has appointed -- 32 at last count! -- to bring one sector after another of our economy and government under his direct control (come to think of it, why don't we just call him "Czar Obama"?)

    They have had enough, in short, of how President Obama and his allies are rapidly destroying so much of what has made our country prosperous and free -- while arrogating to themselves a degree of power that would make Hugo Chavez blush.
    And what about you, my friend? Have you had enough? Are you ready to join the swelling ranks of Americans who are determined to put a stop to this madness? Are you ready to add your voice to theirs in demanding an end to this assault on our liberties... an end to this era of fiscal insanity... an end to this government "of the cronies, by the cronies, and for the cronies"?

    If you are -- if you are among those who refuse to tolerate even for one more day what is happening in our nation's capital, then I have only one thing to ask of you... Join the conservative counter-revolution today
  • AckAck
    Chris, since you are so hung out on reading material posted on links, tell me what you think of this one taken from Human Events:

    Right now, something is happening in America that, try as they might, the liberal media can't stop simply by distorting or ignoring it.

    I'm talking about the surging opposition to President Obama's plans to "remake" America (his word) from an independent republic of freedom-loving, self-reliant citizens into a Euro-socialist nanny state.

    Call it a backlash. Call it a counter-revolution. Call it a conservative comeback. Call it what you will -- but it's real, it's massive, and it's about to boil over into something the liberals can't deny any longer.

    How do I know? Because it's my job, as editor in chief of HUMAN EVENTS, to report on things that the liberal media won't.

    And everywhere my staff and I look these days we see the signs of this extraordinary political uprising...
    IN THE POLLS showing a sudden and dramatic erosion in President Obama's approval ratings -- and an even steeper, faster decline in support for his neo-socialist policies

    ON THE STREETS of mainstream America where "tea party" tax protests and other expressions of populist outrage are spreading like wildfire from town to town, city to city nationwide

    IN STATEHOUSES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS where voters are forcing legislators -- by popular referendum if necessary -- to roll back the tax-and-spend policies that have brought so many states and localities to the brink of bankruptcy

    ON THE AIRWAVES where conservative TV and radio personalities such as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity are soaring to new heights of popularity -- while the ratings for liberals like Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman are plummeting

    ON THE BESTSELLER LISTS where books like Mark Levin's " Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto" and "Glenn Beck's Common Sense" have dominated for months, outselling liberal tomes by hundreds of thousands

    AND EVEN, AT LONG LAST, IN CONGRESS where, after years of selling out conservative principles, a small but growing number of Republicans are loudly voicing and voting those principles once again -- despite the loud complaints of the liberal media.
    What's driving this extraordinary phenomenon? In a word -- outrage.

    After trusting Barack Obama's soothing promises, and the media's constant reassurances, that once in office he would "transcend" partisan politics, Americans quickly realized they had elected the most radical leftist ever to serve as President of the United States.

    They also realized that for all Obama's talk of "transparency" and "accountability," his administration was creating the conditions for a level of political sleaze, corruption and back-room wheeling-and-dealing far worse than anything Washington has seen in a very long time.

    And now that the gap between Obama's smooth-talking rhetoric and his actual performance has finally become plain to anyone but the most besotted of his admirers, Americans have had enough.
    They have had enough of the out-of-control spending on bailouts and "stimulus" that have sent the federal deficit soaring to $1.8 trillion for 2009 alone -- and even higher down the road -- threatening to bankrupt our nation, destroy our currency, and impoverish our descendents for generations to come

    They have had enough of Obama's crusade to replace private healthcare with a government-run system that will empower federal bureaucrats to make life-and-death decisions about your medical care -- and that will put all your private medical records in a government database (don't worry, they promise never to use them to harm you)

    They have had enough of Obama's proposed tax hikes and tax "surcharges" to pay for all his spending programs that will drive U.S. tax rates higher even than the welfare-state economies of Europe (New Yorkers, for instance, could face a combined federal-state income tax rate of nearly 60 percent)

    They have had enough of the appalling rogue's gallery of crooks, cronies, tax cheats, and political big-spending leftists that Obama has appointed to the highest levels of our government -- while firing or abruptly "retiring" official government watchdogs who have blown the whistle on his cronies and their schemes

    They have had enough of the outrageous threats to investigate and prosecute Bush-era anti-terrorist agents and officials for the heroic work they did in keeping our country safe

    They have had enough of the endless procession of unelected "czars" President Obama has appointed -- 32 at last count! -- to bring one sector after another of our economy and government under his direct control (come to think of it, why don't we just call him "Czar Obama"?)

    They have had enough, in short, of how President Obama and his allies are rapidly destroying so much of what has made our country prosperous and free -- while arrogating to themselves a degree of power that would make Hugo Chavez blush.
    And what about you, my friend? Have you had enough? Are you ready to join the swelling ranks of Americans who are determined to put a stop to this madness? Are you ready to add your voice to theirs in demanding an end to this assault on our liberties... an end to this era of fiscal insanity... an end to this government "of the cronies, by the cronies, and for the cronies"?

    If you are -- if you are among those who refuse to tolerate even for one more day what is happening in our nation's capital, then I have only one thing to ask of you... Join the conservative counter-revolution today
  • flyfshr1cd
    AckAck Propaganda based on opinion, spin, distortion and absolute lies.
  • AckAck
    Humbug!
  • flyfshr1cd
    AckAck, you ask for my opinions, and I tell you my opinions are based on facts. Then you refuse to comment on what I send you other to say "humbug". You get another chance now by going back to the QUOTE I posted yesterday from one of your own, Charles Krauthammer, which is shown above. I read what you send me, and you refuse to read anything I send you like http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck. I have no problem with squaring with MY God, because I don't lie, or spread lies. I'm intellectually honest enough to consider any argument based on FACTS.
  • Chris Doyle
    LIEsite definition. One which is paid for by the RNC, brags about Conservative ideology contained herein, and represents "facts" as inuendo, hearsay, and spin as Gospel.You're being Bushshitted. My expectation is when I read that somebody says that somebody else said, they can show a link from a credible news agency like AP or Reuters to confirm.
  • AckAck
    Hey Chris, now let's see - are you going to suggest that we take the money away from the RNC and give it to the poor? That would be spreading the wealth. Everyone knows there are more "RICH" (millionaires and multi-millionaires) that claim to be republican, NOT CONSERVATIVE, than in the democrat ranks. The RNC should have more money than the democrats. But, in the past, they have not had that luxury. Know why? Because one radical, liberal democrat will spend twice as much of his mooched money as a republican will to prove a point. That's just the way it is. NO LINKS. Just facts.

    Why are you hung out on these links anyway? Don't you realize all the content on these links has been added by people? More idiots than anything! So, if you need a link to believe something you're in bad shape political wise. I don't know how old you are but I'm betting unless you change that, you will be TOTALLY insane (if you're not already) in less than 10 years!
  • Chris Doyle
    AckAck, NO LINKS=hearsay or opinions, which are just like assholes. We all have one, but so what? If you can't base your opinions on facts, you come up with far fetched conclusions about rich Dems spend more money than rich Cons. As to your question about links, if you have half a brain (and I do), you can cut through the Bushchit to see what you're reading is unsubstantiated nonsense that's being represented as "facts". Prove me wrong with a RNC link, and make my day.
  • AckAck
    Chris, you missed the point. Hearsay and assholes is what you have writing the material that you find on most of these links. They write what they want, they put it where they want it.

    Everyone has an asshole, not everyone is an asshole, this is reality - but links, and to believe what is on them, or depend on them for concrete information - NOT! I receive hundreds of links in my emails every single day. Do I read them all? NO! Do I read some of them? YES! Do I believe any of them? Some, maybe...


    I have posted material from links on this very site. Do I do it now? Sometimes I post material that I gather from links here. I quit posting links. Links is some what of a cop out. I stay here to hear personal opinions on certain things that pertain to our country as a whole. I don't come on here to click on a bunch of links. I could certainly do that 24/7 from my emails. So, if you have some personal opinions on things such as, do you like Obama? Do you think he is doing a good job? Did you vote for him? Did you support Bush? Did you vote for him? Your age. Do you support the war we are currently engaged in? And anything else of a nature that is important to US and our country, I'd be glad to share my views and dialogue in a respectful manner. I have a feeling that's not why you are here...
  • AckAck
    Chris, we're used to old Dora hanging around in the rafters! She don't have a home or anything, just a computer and some 2x4s to hang on to. But, you... Still trying to figure that one out, but I'm working on it. The best I can figure out is that you are some smart ass punk that thinks he knows everything and in reality, DON'T KNOW ANYTHING! Am I getting close?
  • Dora
    I have a large home in the mountains with four bedrooms, an office, an art room, a bonus room, formal dining room, work room, and several hundred acres of beautiful Colorado land with a view well beyond 75 miles from my dining table and back deck. Don't spend any time in any rafters, Bubbles.
    So sorry to disappoint you.
  • billyLevine
    Dora,

    Who really gives a flying Achmendennanabud about your goddamn house? If I were you, (which thank the good Lord I'm not because your underwear is too big) I would check my silverware. Hey...I can get a few bucks for this phony stainless steel beer can crusher. I read all of your comments. You are clearly growing stupid with grace, the hooker who used your four bedroom shack for some big business. A bonus room? Don't you know how to spell bondage? Take your formal dining room (a card table and 4 folding chairs) and invite the hoi polloi to dinner. Cook up that dried ear wax - I bet it tastes like chicken.
  • Dora
    Billybob, you must be a very, very small man- in every sense of the word.

    You are clearly an uneducated man with no knowledge of what is known these days as a "bonus room". For your mental Rolodex and future reference, a bonus room is an extra, non-designated, room incorporated within the house. Generally they do not have closets, thus, not designed as another bedroom.
    Ours has the second fireplace, a pool table, and walls lined with bookcases floor to ceiling. Leather chairs and an overstuffed sofa make this room one of the most inviting and comfortable room in the house.
    oh...and books, billlybob, are a set of written, printed, or blank pages fastened along one side and encased between protective covers- generally containing a printed or written literary work. You ought to check one out sometime. There are even books on etiquette- not that this would interest you.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Dora, Cool post for Billybob. Unfortunately, they've been told that books and education are baaaaaaaaaaaaaad things, unless they come from the bible, and explained to them by Taggert. lol
  • AckAck
    Sorry Dora, I didn't mean it. It was just a sick joke... Now, I love Colorado, maybe I can come visit you there sometime. We vacation in Colorado and Utah about two times a year. By the way, I don't live in rafters either. I to live in a 4 br, 2 car garage with a twin motor home port on the lower side of it. It stands on several acres in rural Oklahoma where the view from my patio, in back, is a beautiful panaromic view of a several hundred acre lake that we mow right up to the lakeside. Beyond the lakes edge on all sides is beautiful wooded areas. No other houses in view. I have a boat ramp gate leading from my back yard just several feet to the lake. The lake is private and was built in the 1960's by the Army Corp of Engineers and dedicated to the land owners that own property leading up to the lake. There are only about four of us. Come fish it sometime. Large bass, crappie and catfish.
  • Leslie_H
    You have yet to offer anything credible. You keep saying that since you don't know where the money comes it must be the RNC. That is a ridiculous premise. As I've said, I went to a tea party, paid my own way, brought my own signs, no secret tea party group came and gave me money to be there. That's like me saying, that I chose not to believe you are posting these comments of your own free will, therefore you must be working for the White House and you can't prove otherwise. If even HCAN's own site, isn't enough proof I don't know. The original story was broken (first link I posted) by the Washington Post's division that does nothing, but look into political org. Then HCAN confirmed the donation! But no maybe they're lying too. Maybe they don't really want universal healthcare and the 40million they've put aside for promoting it is all a trick by the RNC!!!!! AAHHHHHHHHH!- anyways I'm done with this conversation.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Maybe the facts grl Leslie is about to get a dose of em bareass. All you need to do is prove that HCAN "confirmed the donation". Don't be doing a cut n paste from the LIEsite where you read that, since you clam in comes from HCAN, post the link from that site. Not that you deserve reminding, but I already gave you the proof of Tea Part funding here: http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/13/corporate-lob... Furthermore, email invitations were only given to the drooler faithful in my town for the Tea Party meeting last night, and our press reported that there was only 3 Dems there because of that. So much for Obama stacking the deck!
  • Leslie_H
    This is the last time I will comment on this. First, who is firedoglake? Second, since the Washington Post link wasn't enough and neither was HCAN's own site showing their ridiculously long list of corporate sponsors (here it is again http://healthcareforamericanow.org/site/content...) I thought I would go to the holy grail of liberal sites, the good old Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/10/george... And look who they reference, a site I listed above!
  • billyLevine
    The Hand Speaks
    billyLevine Editor-in-Chief
    =======================

    Fact or fiction...truth vs. the lie...how do humans separate the bull excrement from the cat’s meow? Each day we are assaulted with information - there is no escaping the enormous volume of what is commonly known as the “news.” Most of us have learned the hard way that we can’t believe everything we read and hear. Technology heightens the uncertainty - we can try to avoid TV news and newspapers, but inevitably, whether through the Internet or a neighbor that reads tea leaves, information of one kind or another seeps into our brains and once there, no tool or technological wizardry can get it out.

    Enter the hero - in this case, Dr. Robert Presstedigit; founder of the anti-informational hand. Presstedigit, a researcher at MIT, developed the “Talk to the Hand” technique - a minimally invasive non-verbal system that effectively discourages transmission of information.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Another cha cha, or is it a two step? This link to the Washington Post proves the PHONY link that Leslie posted above. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/NewsSe... Nothing whatsoever about the 5 million given to Soros. Yes Leslie, you've been exposed as a fraud, and like you said it will be the last you comment again. Chuckle,
  • aliy
    fly, you keep calling all Leslies posts crap, YOUR posts are crap. Why should the site YOU keep refering too be any more reliable than her sites, because YOU like your sites?!

    There are always two interpertations, take healthcare, your interpertation and the conservative one, can you guarantee me that what I'm reading in the bill isn't true? No, you can't. As long as bills are written with enough crap in them to not be understood by all in 1 way, there will always be an arguement. In the end if the way you read the bill is right, then we should all be OK, but if the way I read the bill is right, we're completely screwed and on our way to facism!
  • flyfshr1cd
    aliy, You ask fair questions about how to KNOW what version is the truth. The simple answer is that you haven't read the Obama Health Care bill, all you've read is what Conservative LIEsites have told you about it. A perfect example is "death panels". Even the best known Conservative writer in America admits to that lie in yesterday's paper. Leslie grl has posted several links claiming that George Soros contributed 5 million to Obama-all lies. One was claimed be from the Washington Post. Just Google them to get to their site, do a search once there for Soros on their site. Tell me you've found the story with a link from THAT site. The same for HCAN showing corporate sponsors. Read her posts, read my answers. Find the proof for yourself.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Who's afraid of the truth? Those with closed minds, and fixed beliefs. Go here: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck
  • aliy
    I have read the bill. I have not checked (nor will I be checking) and right or left wing website set up to "clue me in" to what it really means. Here are a couple quotes from the ACTUAL bill:

    Page 29: Line 4 starts explaining how you can not exceed $5,000 a year. (which means rationing, you may never reach that limit but other people will)

    Page 59: Line 21 enable electronic funds transfers from individuals bank accounts to pay for this monster.

    Page 167: Line 20 explains that if you don't carry health coverage they deem "acceptable" you will be taxed 2.6% of your income.

    I'm sitting here with the actual bill up in another window. You want to quote "reality check" who are NOT going to tell you the bill sucks (it's the bill THEY wrote) go ahead, until you can pull something out of the actual text of the bill that proves you are correct I'm sticking with my understanding of what I've read.

    I'm really getting sick of people asking me to prove I read the bill and when I do they tell me it's something Hannity told me, or someone who asked me to look up the definiation of "facist" and when I pulled up Websters they said that's a right wing dictionary. Just totally sick of arguing with people who, no matter WHAT you show them, are just never going to be happy.

    Conversation over now.
  • flyfshr1cd
    Conversation just begun. What you've read are "reports" from what the LIEsites tell you about the Obama bill. Post a link for this nonsense and I'll blow it up. In the meantime, you get to deny this from one of the best known Conservative writers in America: The Truth About Death Counseling by Charles Krauthammer:
    It's not an outrage; there are no "death panels." But there would be a subtle pressure.
  • aliy
    Not REPORTS, I'm staring at the 1000+ pages of the actual BILL right now. You're just wasting my time now fly. Go home.

    You ask for specifics I gave them to you. Apparently you're not going to be happy ever.
  • flyfshr1cd
    There ya go again, Leslie. Tying to pull a dance move by taking me to another LIEsite in your 1st link, and taking me to an article at huffington written by another LIEsite called The Plum line. I asked NOT for a "report" but a legit article. So now you need to make me wrong by going to the HCAN site, that you say confirms the 5 million from Soros. You have a problem with that? You ask who firedoglake is, so clearly you haven't been there, as I have with your LIEsite links.
  • Chris Doyle
    Blah, blah, blah. Now this gooney LIESite features a whole article on how "We can tweeter better than you can". Pathetic.
  • AckAck
    Chris, everything that anyone has mentioned has not met your expectations. If I was stupid enough to hang around on a liberal web site, I would expect nothing less. Yet, you hang around and make like you expect something different.

    One big suggestion for you, IF YOU ARE SO FREAKIN BORED - BEAT IT! Hell, I wouldn't hang around where I was bored. Oh, you're not bored! I see, you're one of those ACORN corns that hang around these sites trying to be cute and sassy. I thought so - go figure.
  • Dora
    Bubbles- tsk...tsk...tsk. You are going to pop a vein if you don't watch out.
  • AckAck
    Hey Dora, did you read the last poem?
  • Dora
    sorry, Bubbles, you don't write poems- you write slop... vile slop.
    ...and you are proud of this...why?

    amazing, Bubbles that you and others here constantly wish to claim some sort of high ground yet you promote such hate, such foul language, such disdain for your fellow members of the human race.

    it's no wonder that you are able to swallow the nonsense that Glenn Beck feeds you... that you admire Rush Limbaugh's often used nasty suggestion for people "to bend over and grab their ankles"- these people, like you, Bubbles- bring absolutely nothing to the table - you stab others in the back and complain that your knife is dirty. take some time to study what is wrong with that activity.
  • Chris Doyle
    Leslie-H, I'm betting that you can't tell me where the TEA PARTIES come from, or how they're funded, but I can: http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/13/corporate-lob... Tell me about it.
  • Chris Doyle
    Leslie-H, You need to read more carefully. I didn't ask how to find a teaparty. The topic was funding. Also, I'm looking for proof, not more links to LIEsites. Where's an AP or Reuters link?
  • Leslie_H
    WHAT ASPECT OF A TEA PARTY NEEDS FUNDING? It doesn't cost a fortune to stand around outside, you honestly don't believe donations are enough? And I say again, SO WHAT? Republicans can donate money to whatever they want. And I'm sorry but I didn't know firedog lake was considered a news source, BTW the first source is part of the Washington Post super sleuth and Michelle Malkin and hotair actually have facts unlike firedog
    Anyways here ya go:
    how about health care for america's own site http://healthcareforamericanow.org/site/content...
  • aliy
    Acorn has to PAY people to stand outside Leslie, THAT is why the liberals all think conservatiaves are paying people to attend tea parties, that is what THEY DO.

    It's like the boyfriend who always thought you were cheating. Why did he always think you were cheating? He WAS cheating. It's the same with liberals. They see that their side has to buy votes and they can't IMAGINE the other side organizing for anything BUT a pay check!

    Acorn is the only one paying people to go to town halls. Ads all over Craigslist offering up to $600 a week to get on a bus and be shipped to town halls so you could support the healthcare reform.

    It's wasting time and breath arguing with them, you can try, but don't put too much effort into someone that's not listening to being with. No matter what you say, they are not going to believe it anyway.
  • Chris Doyle
    Leslie_H, Did you take the time to read the link you've posted? ROFLMAO I'm all in favor of a tax hike for the rich, are you?
  • Leslie_H
    I was referring to the enormous list of donors on the left's biggest pro-Obamacare site. My point was look for yourself at the money the left has, in their own words. Not that agree even the tiniest bit with anything they have to offer.
  • AckAck
    Leslie, democrats have always had some form of big fat cat funding for special interest projects. Thats fine for CNN, MSNBC and MOVE-ON, but let the republicans start getting funding and it pisses them off. Who gives a crap where the money is coming from! It's there and that is what counts. It's going to get a whole lot better and I ain't gonna ask any questions...
  • Leslie_H
    AckAck- Thank you! I was starting to feel like I was beating my head on a brick wall!
  • AckAck
    Leslie, democrats have always had some form of big fat cat funding for special interest projects. Thats fine for CNN, MSNBC and MOVE-ON, but let the republicans start getting funding and it pisses them off. Who gives a crap where the money is coming from! It's there and that is what counts. It's going to get a whole lot better and I ain't gonna ask any questions...
  • Leslie_H
    First of all how does one fund a teaparty? I went to one which was organized on Facebook. we didn't need a whole lot of funding for that.
    in regards to George Soros
    Here you go :
    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/g...
    http://randysright.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/gue...
    http://uslibertyjournal.blogspot.com/2009/08/so...
    http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2009/08/04...
    In regards to Heritage:
    http://www.heritage.org/about/ You can click on the link and read their financial statements
    by the way... you're welcome
  • Leslie_H
    Also the link you sent refers to Freedom Works who in their mission statement openly says they exist to aid in the grassroots movements. http://www.freedomworks.org/about/about-freedom... There's no conspiracy here. Just because you found an author willing to refer to the as "fat cats" doesn't make the connection to the RNC! Just like wealthy liberals can donate their money to ANY movement they want, so can conservative "fat cats"
  • Chris Doyle
    Leslie_H, Won't you please give a link (links) for the claims you've made below? Also, where the funding for Tea Parties comes from. Again, not hearsay.
  • Chris Doyle
    First paragraph of the article above: Even this week, the conservative organization Club For Growth promoted their Twitter account on their $1.2 million ad campaign against health care. Who can tell me where that money comes from, if not the RNC?
  • Leslie_H
    The democrats have spent a ton of money pushing healthcare, so even if the money did come from the RNC, so what? The RNC openly opposes Obamacare there is no secret here. I don't know too much about the Club for Growth, but I know most of the conservative organizations (like the Heritage Foundation) rely solely on membership fees and donations. Also, considering the fact that George Soros put up 5 million to promote Obamacare, I wouldn't be pointing fingers if I were you.
  • AckAck
    I yelled through the last two years of the Bush administration that Conservatives were not standing up to the special interest groups and the liberal democrats in general. This held true all through that period of time. It was as if the Silent Majority (which is conservative base) was indeed being silent. Many times I asked myself, "Where are they?" It was as what has happened since then was being played out before my very eyes. Nothing could stop or interfer with it. It was going to happen, we were destined to have a Democrat President - and so we did.

    Even through the first few months of Obama's term, the conservatives just layed low and watched. Then I heard something like this, "The Silent Majority is moving about - waking up, or maybe they are just good people and was not asleep all along." THEN CAME THE TEA PARTIES! Shocked the liberals in this nation worse than Sarah Palin's front line appearance. Then I heard, "The Liberal Obama Administration has woke up a sleeping giant." THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT! Now comes the town hall meetings, "The giant is moving about in the US." The giant is on the move, devouring a lot as it moves and is growing by leaps and bounds...

    I now believe in the Conservatives once again. Why? Not just because of the events that are taking place, instead it's how it is effecting the Liberals. Everytime one makes a statement about how active the Conservative Movement has become, IT SCARES THE PISS OUT OF THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS! They don't know what to do or who to turn to. The people they are suppose to turn to for help are the very people that is causing this termoil in their party to begin with. That's got to be pretty bad not to have anyone to turn to for help.

    Although I don't use it as a form or communication, I'm on "Twitter" and I'm one of those senior citizens who did not vote for Obama and I have since cancelled my membership with AARP. I do know a couple senior citizens who voted for him but have since totally changed their mind about what they did. They to have cancelled their membership with AARP. I wonder if anyone in that administration even cares about the senior membership of this country. Aparently not. Look at them now that they have made the seniors of this country mad. Hummmmm, wonder if they are looking now?

    Most of the senior population has just been pushed aside and nearly forgotten. People don't realize how many of us there really are... WAKE UP AMERICA!
  • Chris Doyle
    Eyes Wide open, AckAck. It would seem you're beginning to see through the Bushchit (8 years). You will NEVER step up to the special interest groups, and the dozens of LIEsites like this one are proof positive of the hundreds of millions the RNC has been spending to sink any kind of major health care reform.
  • billyLevine
    The highest concentration of conservative twiiterers fall within the 36 - 55 year-old group - representing only 11% of all tweeties. Are you beginning to see how this is skewed? The highest concentration of liberals is not yet of voting age - the kiddie population. There's an old saying that still applies - "Statistics are for losers." If conservatives think they can influence the outcome of 2012 elections by using Twitter, they are seriously misled.

    In any event, Republicans will win by a landslide in 2012 and it is not inconceivable that the GOP intentionally tanked the 2008 election, leaving the dumpsites to Obama - a man doomed from the get go by the economic and foreign affairs train wrecks he inherited. A smooth talking snake oil salesman, Obama plays both sides of the fence and comes out a loser no matter how green the grass may appear. As I write this, Sarah Palin is getting the Nascar makeover. She will become an awesome force to be reckoned with in 2012.

    Let the liberals twitter themselves to oblivion.
  • AckAck
    Billy, Sarah Palin is already a leading force in the republican party. The reason why she is not a front runner right now is because ALL liberals hate her! ALL liberal media outlets hate her! And, although in the end she will get their support, some republicans don't want to see her on the front line because they have people they want up there themselves. Right now there isn't much use of putting her there and letting her take more abuse from the liberal idiots. Myself, I'm a Palin fan come hell or high water...
  • billyLevine
    Despite all the hoopla, Twitter is essentially for children who wish to see their names in print and brag to their friends. Conservatives are wasting their time posting on Twitter. Strong lobbies, satuaration media coverage and common sense will accomplish much more.

    Fellow conservatives - stop wasting time with kiddie web sites.
  • ds1
    There is no such thing as a bad communication method! We should be using them all.
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