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The Perception of Conservatives and Republicans: Grumpy Old White Men

July 23rd, 2008 Urban Conservative

The following image consists of influential conservative politicians, pundits, talk and radio show hosts (Newt Gingrich, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Bill O’Reilly, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mitt Romney, Michael Savage and Lars Larson.)  They are influential. They have a significant following.  And they are all conservative (some more conservative than the others, obviously).  But the other commonality of these folks is pretty simple.  They are all white males (grumpy old men); and we see/listen/read about them every day on the news, in newspapers, blogs, etc. 

I see this as a big problem and I even wrote about it a few years ago after I had a conversation with a co-worker.  In a nutshell, he made this comment after I told him I was a conservative, and I quote, “I thought all conservatives were white!� The problem here revolves around perception. And I would argue that many Americans who vote but are not necessarily “political� have this same perception and it’s hurting conservatives.

Now, it’s been reported that McCain is zeroing in on selecting a candidate. Some say it’s Romney. Others suggest it might be Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. And others are speculating that it might be Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal; even though just today he said he is not being considered. If it were up to me, I’d choose Jindal.

But this is an issue that I believe will have an impact far beyond the 2008 Presidential Election.  Take a look at what Obama and the democrats have done with their party in the last few months. They have energized their base and the result is this “love affair� with the media; they’re selling more T-shirts, badges, baseball caps and other campaign merchandise. Their people are passionate, spreading the word (viral marketing), and participating. Will this win the election? I don’t know but it sure does look that way.

It’s not only because Obama is black, a great communicator, handsome and energetic. It’s because he is different from what we are used to seeing.  Despite his liberal policies and voting record, he is EXACTLY what we need to represent conservatism. People like Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly and our elected officials only cater to a certain group of people; and I would argue that most non-white conservatives just can’t relate to their commentary, policies and personalities.  Republicans and conservatives alike need to start thinking long term about the future of America; especially if they want to court minority voters in each of the minority groups. 

The reality is that there are a lot of Black, Asian and Hispanic conservatives today but no one ever talks about them; they are rarely interviewed or featured on the news.  It’s about marketing, positioning and changing the perceptions of Americans that all conservatives and Republicans we see in the media are not grumpy old white men. Here are a few that I think are worth mentioning.

  • Michael S. Steele is the chairman of GOPAC and a former Lieutenant Governor of Maryland.
  • Alan Lee Keyes is a political activist, author and former diplomat. He ran for President in 1996, 2000, and 2008, and was a Republican nominee for the U.S. Senate in 1988, 1992, and 2004; and was appointed Ambassador to the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations under Ronald Reagan.
  • Condoleezza Rice is the current  Secretary of State, and the second in the administration of President George W. Bush to hold the office. She is the first black woman, second African American (after Colin Powell) and the second woman (after Madeleine Albright) to serve as Secretary of State. She was also President Bush’s National Security Advisor during his first term. Before joining the Bush administration, she was a professor of political science at Stanford University.
  • J. C. Watts, Jr. is a conservative Republican politician, CNN political contributor, former Representative from Oklahoma in the U.S. Congress, and former professional Canadian football player and much celebrated quarterback for the University of Oklahoma.
  • Jesse Lee Peterson is president and founder of The Brotherhood Organization of A New Destiny (BOND), an American group dedicated to promoting responsible fatherhood amongst African Americans. He is also a member of Choose Black America, an organization of African Americans who oppose illegal immigration.
  • Michelle Malkin is a conservative columnist, blogger, author, and political commentator. She has made frequent guest appearances on national syndicated radio programs and on television networks such as MSNBC, Fox News Channel, and C-SPAN.
  • Michelle Eunjoo Park Steel is a Republican member of the California Board of Equalization and is currently the highest ranking Korean American officeholder in the U.S.
  • John Kenneth Blackwell is the former secretary of state of the U.S. state of Ohio who made an unsuccessful bid as the Republican nominee for Governor of Ohio in the 2006 election.
    Piyush “Bobby” Jindal is the current Republican governor Louisiana. Before his election as governor, he was a member of the United States House of Representatives from Louisiana’s 1st congressional district, to which he was elected in 2004.
  • Linda Chavez is a prominent Hispanic-American conservative author, commentator, and radio talk show host. She is also a Fox News analyst, Chairman of the Center for Equal Opportunity.  She was once the highest-ranking woman in President Ronald Reagan’s White House.

My question is … where are these people? Why are they not letting thier voices get heard. Why aren’t they speaking out, sharing their opinions, talking to people.  With the exception of Michelle Makin (and yes, I love this woman), everyone of these people are totally off the radar; and that’s a problem.


Tags: Newt Gingrich, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mitt Romney, Michael Savage, Lars Larson, Michael S. Steele, Alan Lee Keyes, Condoleezza Rice, J. C. Watts, Jr., Jesse Lee Peterson, Michelle Malkin, Michelle Eunjoo Park Steel, John Kenneth Blackwell, Piyush “Bobby” Jindal, Linda Chavez, conservative politicians, conservative pundits, talk show host, radio show host

 


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  • Leo Emmanuel Lochard
    IS NOT COLLIN POWELL “THE NEW MEMBER” OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? The former Secretary of State of a Republican administration, Collin Powell, voted for candidate Obama, currently President. And now, Mr. Powell is pretending he is qualified to preach “inclusiveness” to the Republicans on national television on a Sunday morning. Powell has a vested interest in the current administration which he unabashedly supports, and cannot impartially criticize the Republican Party without the taint of partisanship. Why would he want to see Republicans succeed in 2012 when he already has invested his political interest in the success of the Democratic Party? Powell should just leave the Republican Party and join the Democrats with whom he is already more comfortable. What makes him think he should be listened to, as he is combating Republican principles and ideas at their core, while eulogizing Democratic ideology, politics, and policies? This cannot do – not from a long-corrupted pretense of “Republican credentials.” No offense to the former Secretary of State, but he surely is not influencing the conservative Republican base who understands what is really at stake in this counterfeit debate. Why would Republicans need to go to “the other side” in order “to remake their image?” This is not a matter of “image making” but of substance regarding the enduring moral principles, eternal spiritual values and constructive nation-building beliefs we hold dear for the survival of this nation and for an America thriving, with a life-affirming political prosperity and economic freedom. Republicans do not abandon foundational conservative principles and ideas to suit transient purposes rooted in marginal, contrary, failure-prone, vote-getting impulses. The real truth is that, to Powell and the Democrats whom he has decided to join, “inclusiveness” only means capitulation to the extreme leftist agenda of population control via infanticide and abortion, homosexual sodomy and lesbianism as they continue to wage fanatical warfare against religious liberty, freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, freedom of expression and the God-instituted nuclear family and attempt to mobilize a militant advocacy of more State and federal government control over local affairs and individual lives. Why do they always resort to government activism to reverse time-tested, constructive, traditional religious morality and then hypocritically vociferate the cynical diatribe that “you can’t legislate morality?” We witnessed what kind of treatment Miss California, Carrie Prejean, received, because, as a Great American, she stood for her beliefs, as she freely expressed her God-given right to her own opinion. Facts are, no homosexual or lesbian “partners” have ever given nor will ever give birth to any child. Homosexual or same-gender “relations” are unnatural, abnormal, disease-producing, and destructive of the general welfare. These abominations are already condemned by all religions on the Earth, especially Judeo-Christian moral teachings and commandments. Again, what does Powell mean by “inclusiveness,” as he already voted for Obama and has already joined the Democratic Party for all practical purposes? The Republican Party does not have an “identity crisis” and it does not need to “remold its image” in order to deform its foundational principles to fit the opponents’ negative criticism and counter-historical advocacy. Powell should just gracefully “bow out” with disadvantage to none and disparagement of none. Did not Senator Lieberman change party from Democrat to Independent? And did not Senator Specter change party from Republican to Democrat? Powell should just openly change party and join the Democrats rather than pretending he can impartially critique the Republican Party as a loyal, belonging-member, with the best interest of the Party in mind. Mr. Powell, the former “Republican” Secretary of State, goes to media programs from a Democratic Party allegiance and criticizes the Republican Party for not being “inclusive.” So the Democratic Party is more in line with his own thinking, he should just publically join them and be done with it - then, with no contradictions, he’d be truly himself.
  • Robert
    You are guys say all this stuff about Senator Obama. However I know first hand about the how hypercritical this family and the Republican party are . Track Palin and I had sex in a public restroom
    at home in Alaska. We were both 17 at tthe time. he then told me that If I told anyone that he would have me killed our hurt.  I know what he did and he knows what he has done......
  • Robert
    You are guys say all this stuff about Senator Obama. However I know first hand about how hypercritical this family and the Republican party. Track Palin and I had sex in a public restroom
    at home in alaska. We were both 17 at tthe time. he then told me that If I told anyone that he would have me killed our hurt.
  • David W. Walters
    great piece Toe......  "......they blew it."
  • toe
    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07112008/watch.html
  • Dana
    Great post, and I agree.  Except how much is because the party isn't putting these people out and about and how much is because no one listens when they do?  I don't know...Bush's team he put together was pretty diverse, yet he certainly didn't seem to get the points for it that Clinton did.
  • David W. Walters
    Toe,
    Great observations about political cycles, but i am wondering.......
    Might it not be best to let McCain have this election because of the poor shape of the nation?  Anyway you slice it, the country is in such a f**k'd-up mess that i see little hope for success in the next 4 years.
  • toe
    “For long periods of time political alignments shift incrementally and slowly. But our politics also has a volatile history, not always placid, erupting suddenly and sharply through cataclysms, and often as a result of violence. The Civil War, the Great Depression, and the Vietnam War and the civil rights revolution were earthquakes that abruptly overturned long-settled arrangements. When Herbert Hoover was elected in 1928, his landslide victory was universally seen as the peak of Republican Party consolidation, the culmination of the party’s progress since the Civil War. Similarly, when Lyndon Johnson was elected in 1964, his landslide was interpreted as the apotheosis of the New Deal. For two generations the Republicans have been running on the themes and infrastructure developed since the Democratic collapse in 1968. The scale of the Bush disaster is larger than any cataclysm since then. Whether or not there is a powerful geopolitical analogy between Iraq and Vietnam wars, as Bush first insistently denied, then vehemently argued, there is a pertinent domestic political analogy. Vietnam ended a Democratic era as definitively as Iraq is closing a Republican one.”
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/blumental1.html
  • David W. Walters
    Europe a failure?
    hmmmmmm..........
    But we are successful.
    Las t time i check'd the euro was quite strong
  • Michael
    Very good article.  I have wondered about these things also.  Please see this site.  www.nationalblackrepublicans.com  I have always wondered why the republican party does not go after the black american vote.  It has something to do with the maturation of our people.  My view is that as our young people begin to accept people of color as just another part of what makes this nation great, a perception that likely came about with the acceptance of rap music as a mainstream form of entertainment, then color becomes a not just acceptable but downright appealing.

    The older americans are having trouble accepting Obama, I should say older white americans.  They don't realize that our young american are able to look at a person of color and see an attraction, whether it is the sports figure, the rapper, or the movie star, there are some people of color who are beautiful.

    That is the cultural change that has allowed democrat party to nominate Obama.  The Republicans are stuck in a time warp.  The issue of race is only one aspect of the grumpy old man perception.  The other factor is that the party has surrendered its political foundation to a presidency that has redefined conservatism.  The new definition is that conservatism is a one world view that government is now the answer to our social problems but we must not spend as much monsy as the democrats. 

    What the republican party needs is to clean house.  That will happen this election cycle.  Then the GOP better identify charismatic leaders who understand true consevative ideals and can comminicate those views without concern for the polling results.  The congressional elections are very important this year because it will be from the new members of congress that we will find new visionary leaders in a very troubled time.

    Otherwise, we can all sign up for the socialism that has become the failed experiments of Europe.
  • Jason Herrboldt
    "It’s not only because Obama is black, a great communicator, handsome and energetic. It’s because he is different from what we are used to seeing. " 
    And conservatives accuse Obama of playing the race card.  What a joke.  Obama said essentially the same thing in response to the Paris/Britney ad, and McCain's hound dogs pounced with a level of viciousness that would make Carl Rove proud.  Look at the date of this blog:  July 26th.  That's almost a week before the "race card" bombshell.  

    "...he is EXACTLY what we need to represent conservatism."  What about Condi Rice and Colin Powell?  They are two of the most powerful African-American republicans in the world.  Are they too old and ugly for you?
  • David W. Walters
    UC.......this is for you......
    http://www.defjam.com/site/home.php
  • Jonathon Nierengarten
    This global poverty bill is the biggest pile of crap I've ever seen. I'm incorporating in Costa Rica if this clown gets elected.

    Come leave some thoughts over at my blog, you lovely lefties... I've got some more opinions being opined...

    http://bittercapitalist.blogspot.com/
  • David W. Walters
    "Even better are his intentions to create a civilian military force equal in strength and funding to the US military."
    What could be wrong with that?
    Blackwater seems to like the idea.
  • Reaper
    You think the Global Poverty Act is bad?  Obama apparently wants to increase taxes to the tune of $235 billion to fund it. 

    Even better are his intentions to create a civilian military force equal in strength and funding to the US military.  He MAY even be planning to require service in this force.  Yeah, conscription.  I'm certainly voting for him now. 

    I usually find that when I look beyond the mud into the facts, a person is less extreme than he's being made out to be.  But this is just getting ridiculous; Obama's every bit as freakin' out there as people suggest and more. 

    PS:  I think someone way up there in the comments talked about Obama's passing up a visit to the troops to go to the gym, and played it off as a last minute change of policy on the part of the hospital.  FALSE.  Not even Obama is alleging that.  The hospital wouldn't allow campaign staff into the hospital; that's the way it's always been.  When the hospital reaffirmed this to the Obama team (after the trip had been planned), according to Obama, they decided that it was too likely that the trip was going to be perceived as a political play so they canceled it. 

    My thinking is that few would have criticized Obama for making the trip, and those who would have would have been uniformly ignored by the masses.  As should have been obvious, though, passing up the trip resonated very loudly with his opponents; much louder than the visit itself would have.  So at best it was an incredibly stupid move, and at worst it was Obama not wanting to make the visit if he wasn't going to be photographed shaking hands with our purple stars.
  • JarrodM
    One last link to let you all chew on. http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/24/bill-jeered-as-omnibus-earmark/ 

    I'm not going to say that Republicans arn't just as guilty, as talked about above, these people have a lot of backs to scratch now that they are in office.
  • JarrodM
    I found a website that I think all of you might find intrasting. It is kind of fun to read what these bills that senators create say in them.

    www.govtrack.us

    any way is some info from a bill that barack recently introduced. I did not know that congress could direct the president to do any thing. So much for the president really being in charge.




    4/24/2008--Reported to Senate amended.
    Global Poverty Act of 2007 - Directs the President, through the Secretary of State, to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the U.S. foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the United Nations Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day.
    Requires the strategy to contain specific and measurable goals and to consist of specified components, including: (1) continued investment or involvement in existing U.S. initiatives related to international poverty reduction and trade preference programs for developing countries; (2) improving the effectiveness of development assistance and making available additional overall United States assistance levels as appropriate; (3) enhancing and expanding debt relief as appropriate; (4) mobilizing and leveraging the participation of businesses and public-private partnerships; (5) coordinating the goal of poverty reduction with other internationally recognized Millennium Development Goals; and (6) integrating principles of sustainable development and entrepreneurship into policies and programs.
    Sets forth specified reporting requirements. Directs the Secretary of State to designate a coordinator who will have primary responsibility for overseeing and drafting the reports, as well as responsibility for helping to implement recommendations contained in the reports.
    Defines specified terms.
  • Kat
    If anyone is a Glen Beck fan, you should definetly check out his new DVD Glen Beck Unelectable coming out September 16th.  I saw a sneak preview and it was awesome !
  • JarrodM
    Navada I hear you, and agree.

    There are two news stories today that I think highlight all of this.

    1. A new study has been released from the Black AIDS Institute. Stating that the level of AIDS in the black community in America is higher then in almost half the countries that the US send funding to, to fight AIDS. Al Shaprton had this to say "During a news conference, the Rev. Al Sharpton said the disproportionate and critical levels of AIDS in the black community should be a priority in the United States."

    I have to ask my self a few questions on this. In my understanding you get AIDS from having sex with a person that has AIDS, and from sharing needles with someone that has AIDS. Yes their are other forms of getting AIDS but they are very rare, and a different subject I feel.

    So how is it the Countries fault if any one white, black or purple is getting AIDS. I believe a lot of the money that is being sent over seas to help combat this problem is being spent on education. Teaching people how AIDS is transfered, and how to protect yourself from it. Now I have not spent much time in the inner-city or where ever these out breaks are taking place, but I have to believe that the same information I have on this topic is available their also. So how is it that more of my tax dollars should be spent on this issue, when the answer is self control.

    A person is not entitled to go out and live a life that they want, and then when life bits them in the ass because of it, to use me, and all of the other hard working tax payers to bail them out.

    I'm also wondering, was is their a Black AIDS research group? I can only imaging the outrage if their was a White AIDS research group. The same as if there was a White Entertainment Channel.

    To me it is stories like this that point out why their is still a division on ethnicity in this country, and it has nothing to do with the horrible slavery that Black people faced 200+ years ago. It has nothing to do with the discrimination and hatred that the Black community faced up until the 60's. I has to do with a community of American's that feel that they are entitled, while at the same time go out of their way to isolate them selves from the rest of the country.

    2. Two Muslim ladies are suing McDonalds for 10 Million Dollars because McDonalds refused to higher them, because they refused to work with out their head scarfs on.

    This has been an issue that has been festering inside of me for a long time. First let me explain I believe that when a person or corporation owns a business they should have the choice and the right to higher who they want to higher. If the person wants to be a bigot, that then should be their choice. I would hope that the community would be outraged, and not eat, or use that establishment, causing it to lose money and go out of business, that is how the system works.

    Next I believe that if things are so bad for where you come, and you seek to become an American, then that is fine, but don't expect America to change for you. I think that it is great that some companies have gone out of their way to be more accommodating. Most of them say that Muslim workers are very hard working. They should be commended for making the CHOICE to accommodate these people.

    What is next, if I apply for a position as a CEO for a company, and have no clue what it is or how to do it, and they don't higher me, I can sue them for educational discrimination? Look a company that is not receiving government funding, nor working on Government contracts should be able to higher who ever they want. It is called freedom of choice. Let the people decide if they are OK with that. If the Government feels that there  is a need to help out, then they should give some sort of benefit to companies that go out of their way to make accommodation to higher people in these situation, maybe a little bit of a tax break.

    I know when I was a young man, sporting long hair, and an ear ring, I missed many opportunities for employment because of it. I accepted that, and I kept looking until I found an employer that was OK with it. I did not go out and start suing company after company because they would not higher me.


    In conclusion I think that we all need to take a step back, and reevaluate what it means to be a free society. It does not mean that the Government is free to do what it pleases, and it does not mean that people are free to infringe on every one else's rights. It means that we are free to make choices in our lives that we deem to be in our best interest. It also means that we have to live with these choices, and be prepared for the consequences.

    The original founding father had a vision, and we have gone out of our way to warp and distort that vision. It is about time that we lift the chains of a heavy Government and we get back down to the business of living our lives, and doing what we can do to better out selves, and out fellow man.

    The courts where never designed to work like a lottery handing out millions of dollars because some ones feelings got hurt. There are two courts in this land. One is for criminal matters, the other is for contractual law. The second is suppose to settle disputes of contracts, not go out of it's way to try and make life fair for every single person in this world. Life if not fair, and the best thing that anyone can do, is protect them selves, by watching their own fiscal well being, and be willing to work hard.
  • Nevada Pundit
    I agree JarrodM, the beauty of real freedom is the right to do what you want (as long as its purpose isn't to hurt others) and live with the consequences of your actions, be they good or bad.  The idea of government wanting to step in in every area to influence your life is just wrong.  You know most people who do very well are doing well because of hard work and sacrifice.  I am so tired of Democrats with their liberal programs wanting to punish you for succeeding so that the people who make the choices in their lives not to put for the extra effort and can have better lives.  Opportunities are there for us all, if you choose not to take them, to not work hard in a positive direction, to make bad choices, then as far as I am concerned you belong exactly where you are.
  • JarrodM
    I don't think that it is hard to be a conservative these days. I think that it is hard to have a discussion with anyone these days. I love to debate and talk politics, I think no matter what side that you are on it gives you a chance to grow. I think that we would agree that no one side is perfect, it is more of a preference to your outlook on life.

    For me I lean more conservative because I believe in earning your keep. I believe in helping other out of the goodness of one's own heart, and pocket book. I think that any society that constantly gets dictated to by its leaders is doomed. I also don't believe that it is the Governments job to legislate every aspect of a persons life.

    I agree with organizations like OSHA, and the FDA to protect us from things that are dangers. But dam it if I want to go to McDonalds and eat as much grease fat food as I can, then I should have the right to do that. Just today admist the earth quakes California passed a law banning fast food restaurants in low income area's. The idea is that this will make for healthier restaurants to move in. I have to ask, if the demand was there for it, it would already be in place. I'm assuming, although I'm not a food expert, that it cost more to make a meal that is healthier. so if it cost more, now you are putting more of burden on the low income, and if the food cost more, I'm guessing their will not be as many jobs created. not to mention the audacity, and this is the same issue that I have with people like toe, that they have the audacity to think that they no better for these people. That they believe that it is their job to do this.

    If the people of these area's where that concerned about their diets, then the would not eat at these place to begin with. They would find other alternatives. It is the way Capitalism works. Just the other day I was watching Kitchen Nightmares. It is a very good show if anyone has not seen, it has Gorden Ramsey from Hell's Kitchen in it. Any way he goes into this restaurant, that is very nice, but the food sucks, and they are losing money. He goes into town to see what else is going on, and realizes that their are no steak places. He goes into the butcher shop, and confirms this with the butcher, and also confirms how much people love their meat in this town. He makes a deal to purchase all the meat for this restaurant from this butcher, changes the menu, and the place is a success. Because he went out and found what the people wanted, and gave it to them. That is the American dream. To have the freedom to just open a place of business, and if you know what you are doing and you work hard, you might end up doing what you love, and making a good living doing it. WE DO NOT NEED GOVERNMENT DICTATING TO US HOW TO LIVE OUR LIVES.
  • David W. Walters
    Jarrod......
    i feel your pain, it's hard bein' a conservative today.........just as hard as it was bein' liberal back in the 80's.
  • JarrodM
    I never said that I endorsed that link, I just found the information interesting.    Thank you for pointing out that some of the information is not accurate.
  • AldenxOhhh
    You may not be defending McCain, but your spreading these falsehoods puts you in the same catagory.  It is easy to say "I don't know if this is correct, but.."  With that you are doing the same as every other lazy conservative out there.


    Sort of like that time Dan Rather got ahold of some false documents about Bush's military service and aired a story about them without bothering to see if they were real or not, yeah?
  • Robert Simpson
    Btw Jarrod, I see where you are not defending McCain, but you just posted a link to the biggest accumulation of lies and misrepresentations I have yet seen to date. You may not be defending McCain, but your spreading these falsehoods puts you in the same catagory.  It is easy to say "I don't know if this is correct, but.."  With that you are doing the same as every other lazy conservative out there.

    "OHHH"  dirt on Obama, let's spread it... Is it true? Who cares LOL".  It's dirt on Obama, so let's tell everyone."

    There are outright lies and there are lies of omission.

    Am I pissed. You damn right I am pissed. McCain may get elected on the backs of these lies. Been there done that with Bush. God help us if we do it again.
  • David W. Walters
    Jarrod......
    I brought up Ted Stephens, because it backs one of my complaints with  politicians.......that is, that we hear a lot about dubious dealings between corporate interests and our elected officials.  No, it isn't just Republicans either, but this gem just jumped out at me after i wrote about quid pro quo.
    But Sen. Stephens should be presumed innocent until.......

    We are not truly represented by our elected officials as long as this crap goes on.  And to focus back toward what UC's blog is all about.....people want a change.  They are tired of this unending bullshit of favoring special interests at the expense of the citizens and taxpayers, workers and small businesses.  I gave Reagan and his brand of ideas a chance to work.  Was it his fault, or the Bush's fault, or Clinton's fault, or Gingrich's fault, or even Pelosi's fault........it's all of 'em.  And the ONLY hope for change i see is not some tired old man, who has too much anger.
  • Robert Simpson
    Jarrod, I just had to come back after I saw the link you posted about Obama's associates. I did a little research and guess what I found. Conservatives will go to any lengths to assassinate the character of Obama.

    Here is 10 min of research, which any conservative that wanted to express an HONEST opinion could have done.

    Click on Quadafi (of course Obama never met Quadafi as far as I can find, but he is linked directly to Quadafi in the misleading intro and discussion.)

    Read the article attached:


    "Libyan islamicist Mohammar Khaddafi bankrolled Raila Odinga’s run for president of Kenya, and Barack Obama campaigned for him, and when Odinga lost the election, his muslim supporters went on a rampage, burning churches, vehicles, attacking with machetes, killing 1,000 of the winning opposition, part of Louis Farrakhan’s afrocentrism with the islamic sharia twist, all supported by Qaddafi and Barack Obama, as Islam and Sharia Law continues to creep across Africa, with support from the jihadist Khaddafi and the self- proclaimed christian presidential candidate Barack Obama of the U.S."


    Sounds like Obama is a real bastard doesn't it... well do a little googling and what do we find.  Obama tried to quell the violence and keep the incumbent president Kabiki from engaging in violence. He talked to Odinga while on the road in the US, and addressed people in Kenya (about what I do not know, but his emphasis with the leaders was non-violence, see link below).

     Basically all this is the same lies, misrepresentations, and distortions I have been railing against.


    How did this get to the point that Obama was campagning for Odingo? I found no mention of that, only about trying to get Kenya to not go violent.  Oh, btw, the violence was widely reported as a tactic by the Kenyan President and government troops to break the back of the opposition leader Odingo. How is it that Obama is being nlamed for mass killings?

    And it gets even more sick... 

    Not only is this site of Obama associates "set up" to make any one without the sense to look for themselves think Obama is some horrid creature, but all of the associations are like that.  The use of such terrible words as "Muslim", Jihad, Sharyia Law, etc...

    Seriously, read this...what does it tell you in the way that concervatives are using misleading statements, misleading associations, absolute falsehoods?

    "part of Louis Farrakhan’s afrocentrism with the islamic sharia twist, all supported by Qaddafi and Barack Obama, as Islam and Sharia Law continues to creep across Africa, with support from the jihadist Khaddafi and the self- proclaimed christian presidential candidate Barack Obama of the U.S."

    The above practice is rampant and pathetic. McCain supporters cannot find any true dirt on Obama so they make it up. If they can scare enough people with these lies maybe McCain will have a chance.

    Now, before you say that McCain must not know about the lies and dirt his supporters are throwing at Obama, I will prove to you that McCain himself is misleading and lying to the public (and not being called on it by the major networks I might add.)

    McCain's recent TV add, where in his standard dirty campaign methods, says flatly that Obama did not take the time to visit the troops in the hospital. It went on to say that Obama did not visit the troops because he could not take cameras with him. These are only two of the lies and misleading statements in this commercial. Anyone that has looked beyond the lies knows what happened about the Air Force changing visitation rules on Obama at the last minute.  

    McCain knew that before he released the add but still released it. Even the REPUBLICAN SENATOR who accompanied Obama said on Meet The Press that the add was "inappropriate". what else could he say, he was there, he knows it is a lie.

    Now read about what Obama was really up to in Kenya.


    http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/08/europe/obama.php
     
    McCain is a lying pos!!!!
  • simonesdad2008
    AldenxOhhh,
    Maybe you can get JarrodM to "higher" you to stand in a guard tower.
  • AldenxOhhh
    Grammatical inaccuracies in Simonesdad2008's post:


    -A comma is needed to separate "Just a tip" from "Mr. JarrodM" to signify that "Just a tip" is a direct address, of which "Mr. JarrodM" is the recipient.
    -A colon or dash is needed after "JarrodM" to indicate that "When you call" is directly related to the previous statement.
    -A comma is needed after moron.
    -A comma is needed after "And".
    -A question mark is needed after "support" because the statement is a question.
    -A comma is needed after "And", before "I bet".
    -"speak" should have a capital "s" since it's the first word in a quotation.
    -An apostrophe is needed in "1940s".
    -A comma is needed between "you" and "Ward Cleaver".
    -A comma is needed after "So".
    -A comma is needed after "compute".
    -A comma is needed after "Moron", before "indeed".


    People in glass houses, etc.
  • JarrodM
    LOL,

       Again with the rhetoric, and no substance. Bash on me all you want I don't care. You think that I don't realize that I have a difficult time spelling, Gosh so much for that great Public education system that could not even Diagnose me with a learning disability.  Good thing that I don't let something like that stop me from being a success in life.

       I agree let's take all of the computer illiterate people and hang them. I mean how could we ever expect them to be part of our society. Why don't we take all of the people over 80 and hang them also, I mean I get it you don't like old people.

       Wow look at me, I can be sarcastic too, and make no point just like simple Simon.

        You still have not pointed out anything that truly would make Barack a better candidate for President, they are running for president and not CIO right?

        We get it you think that age should be a determining factor, and computer skills. Anything else that you would like to truly add to the subject. Such as your thoughts on economic policies and how Barack fulfills them for you?


        To answer your questions straight.

       1.  I'm a moron and I know the difference between "your" and "you're" and when to use each, what does that make you? A product of over funded public schools. Lucky for me I usually use spell check on my computer, you know with out that, and with out finding people to help me write papers I never would have gotten my degree in Computer Science. :).
     
        2. And I bet you are the old man on the street yelling at the immigrants to "speak English!"  OK this is more a statement then a question but I felt that it deserved a little rebuttal. I could care less if anyone learns English. But I do think that our Government should not have to reprint every document in 100's of other languages. I think that it is a waste of tax payer money to have to higher a million Interpreters so that people can do business in their own language.
     
        They don't want to speak English that is fine with me. But in the United States business should be done in English, if you don't speak English, and you want to do business, then I guess you better find someone that can translate for you. Again another waste of Tax Payer money IMHO.
     
      3. If you met someone in this day and age and they told you they had zero computer skills, what would you think of them? It depends, if I was going to hire them in a computer related field, then I would have to let them know that they are not qualified. If I was going to hire them to stand in a guard tower and protect the nation, I think that would be just fine.
     
    Simon thanks for letting me rattle your cage today, it made my work day much more fun. Maybe tomorrow you will take that dunce cap off, and we can have a productive discussion, sort of like myself and David have been having a little bit of today.
  • simonesdad2008
    Just a tip Mr. JarrodM.  When you call someone a moron make sure all of the words in the sentence you use to call them so are correct.  If I'm a moron and I know the difference between "your" and "you're" and when to use each, what does that make you?  But of course that's just another one of my "ellaganct cheep shoots."

    And of course you'd rather vote for Mickey Mouse.  Who else would Goofy support.  See, elegant and cheap.  I'm leaving you in the Stone Age, sir.  You are far better at exposing who and what you really are than I could possibly do myself.  I actually encourage you to continue to do so.  I'd also encourage you to get a spelling and grammar guide to place next to your computer.  Having a grasp of our native language in its written and spoken form is the least you can do if we are being subjected to your hysterical rants.  And I bet you are the old man on the street yelling at the immigrants to "speak English!"  It's you and the rest of the 1940s revivalists who will put my man in power.  America has moved beyond you Ward Cleaver.  It's not about checking emails.  It's about relating to everyday people living their lives.  I can't live without my computer.  I can't work or efficiently communicate with others without my computer.  I'm exposed to geniuses like you, Mr. JarrodM, because of a computer.  If you met someone in this day and age and they told you they had zero computer skills, what would you think of them?  I can just imagine what your judgemental ass would think.  So when I say John McCain does not compute it's a literal and figurative statement.  Let me know when you both discover fire and the wheel.  Moron indeed.
  • conservativefreak
    For the scoop on why liberals are destroying our country.

    www.conservativefreak.com</a>
  • conservativefreak
    Obama is arabic for socialist.
  • JarrodM
    Yes simon I stand by my first statment your a moron.

    Not sure if a computer skills are a prerequsist for being president. In fact I doubt that the president even has time to sit down and read his own E-Mail.

    So now Barack is your man, good then maybe you can explain for us some of his policies that as you say I will benefit from, because I sure would like to know what these are.

    You claim McCain is to old, so how old is to old. Showed we apply this age restriction on congress to? What would Ted Kennedy do for work?

    Look your just like Barack, tossing out a lot of ellaganct cheep shoots, and no substance. Your easy to see through just like Barack.

    So tell me since you and Barack are so tight, what has he done to qualify him for this position. You do realize that he is freshman senator. That means that he is on his first term in National Office. His time at the State Level is not very impressive, unless your all for tossing out every simple liberty that we enjoy.

    I'm no McCain supporter, but I would much rather vote for Micky Mouse then watch Barack bring socialism to the US. Because I know what the United States is all about, and it is not about being a subject to the Government. It is about beliving in my fellow man to develop solutions, not sitting on my ass hoping that the Government will bail me out. It is about standing up for everyone even when they can not defend themselves.  It is about going out and providing for my family, not asking the government to do it for me.
  • simonesdad2008
    JarrodM,
    Hey, they are your words so if you find them simple, YOU know why.  I think they make perfect sense.  It's the perfect analogy laid out by the master, JarrodM.  You know it and so does everyone reading this.  Steam Engine McCain represents the past.  He lives in the past and relies on past history to somehow justify his candidacy.  McCain is not even physically fit to run this country.  There are no weekends off for the President ever.  Do you really want an 80 year old President because that's how old he would be at the end of his second term.  And if you can't see him serving two terms then what the heck is he doing in the race.  He'd be a lame duck on day one if he pledged to be president for just one term.  You republicans don't even believe in McCain yourselves but you're so buried in partisan politics and ideology that you have forgotten that we are Americans first.  It's a new day in America.  One that's been a long time coming.  Americans are ready for a new direction with a new leader.  Barack is going to take this country to new heights.  As JFK said, a rising tide lifts all boats.  So you people so adamantly against my man will benefit despite yourselves.  If you can't confidently say that about Steam Engine then why in the world do you want to inflict him on America.  Put away your political scorecards and open your minds.  On computer skills alone, McCain could not manage a McDonalds and you want him to run this country?  Someone advocate for this man.  Somebody make the case for bringing back the steam engine.  There is more discussion about Reagan on here than McCain in an election year.  Is chivalry dead?  Someone help an old man across the street.  Can any of you get beyond just bashing Barack and make the case?  Are you idealogs or Americans?
  • JarrodM
    Again David, You act as if I'm friends with these people, and you act as if Democrats have never done these things. Yell the longest term senator who just happens to be a raving liberal is still in office after being drunk behind the wheel and getting his mistress killed.
     
    Look your not going to find me blindly defending anyone regardless of political party.
  • JarrodM
    I agree that there needs to be some regulation.  But their also needs to be enough freedom for cooperation’s to be inventive. As soon as the Government get’s involved with mandates or trying to shift things into one direction or another is when we run into issues. I agree that the Government, and it’s agents like OSHA need to be setting standards for safety.
     
     
    OK now that we have established all of that, tell me how do you see Barracks policies in all of this. Because from what I can see, the only way that Barrack is going to pay for all of the social programs that he wants to institute, he is going to have to add on new taxes across the board including to companies, and this is only going to drive them closer to going over seas.
     
    One side note, I was not advocating using illegal aliens as workers. I’m all for bringing in foreign workers, as long as a company uses it as a last resort because they can not find US employees. But their needs to be a system in place.
  • David W. Walters
    "Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), a giant of Senate politics and a legend in Alaska, has been indicted on seven federal criminal charges accusing him of accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in home renovations from VECO, an Alaskan oil company that in turn asked for favors in the Senate."
    From:
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12142...

    I'm sure this is a bullshit political charge.......this kinda stuff REALLY doesn't happen, huh, Jarrod?
  • David W. Walters
    Jarrod.......
    when i suggested a dividend from Exxon/Mobile, i wasn't exactly serious.   My point is, that there IS a fine balance of Government and Business......but let us not be put off by labels.
    Socialism is a fact of life, just as free enterprise is.  They are not mutually exclusive.  I do not support a Danish or Swedish style of socialism, yet unfettered free market systems devoid of any federal regulation is hardly the answer.   Phil Gramm's plan for banking deregulation plan is a case in point.
    So, should we outsource ALL of our military and intelligence apparatus?
    Allow anyone to cross our borders to work here because they will do it cheaper than my son does it?  HELL NO!  I will not be a slave to the unfettered free market you hope for.......citizens labor and in some cases die for public policy dictated at times by politicians and corporations, which tax the citizens, and profit the corporation........and the politician gets re-elected with the aid of campaign contributions.  You see no
    Quid pro quo?
  • JarrodM
    OK simple simon if that is your best reason to vote for Barack, then have at it.

    David
       1. You want a piece of the oil profits, then invest money into their  companies.
       2. You think that there is a better alternative fuel out their, then start your own company, get your own investors, and have at it.
       3. The Government tried this mandated thing, it is called Corn Ethanol, and so far all it has done is driven up the cost of our food supply, and made some farmers rich. Not to mention drain water supplies, and using more energy to produce it, then it makes.

    Again, there are thousands of companies doing research, and looking for feasible alternatives. Just because the Government demands it, or mandates it, does not mean that it is going to happen. They mandated that it is illegal to enter the United States with out proper documentation, but it still goes on. Why Because of true supply and demand. There is no way around it, it will always happen this way.
  • JarrodM
    YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING I'M NOT DEFENDING MCCAIN, SO I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT HIM. I CARE ABOUT THE ISSUES AND HOW TO RESOLVE THEM. I agree McCain is not going to resolve them all, but I also feel that he is not going to lead the country down a path of Socialism.

    Do you remember the big riots in France not to long ago. Do you recall what caused them. It was because their Government over turned a law. This law stated that when a company hired someone, they could not fire or let that person go for two years. They over turned this law and all hell broke lose. Do you trully want laws like this. Do you think that it is fair that if a company hires some one and they turn out to not be able to do the job that they have to keep them for two years. These are the type of policies that we will be seeing if we allow Barack to take over.
  • David W. Walters
    "Campaign contributions from oil industry executives to Sen. John McCain rose dramatically in the last half of June, after the senator from Arizona made a high-profile split with environmentalists and reversed his opposition to the federal ban on offshore drilling."
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
  • David W. Walters
    Jarrod,
    Thanx for the econ 101 class.....and it sounds so........responsible.  But in the real world, it's not that simple.  The land oil companies want to drill are in many cases Federal land, owned by you and me.  No, it is paid for.....by the corporations at a sweet rate.  Perhaps they should cut all taxpaying citizens a dividend out of their profits.  Taxpayers also fund the military to protect their overseas operations, and the infrastructure that allows them to produce and market their product.
    No, it WILL take federal mandates to produce a diverse energy policy that will include more drilling as a part of that plan.  But this country does not owe oil companies the right to demand an entitlement to do as they see fit.  We ALL have to play by the rules in this game of government, huh?

    As to Obama having unsavory acquaintances......i'll just throw out the Keating 5.  No, it's about judgement in ones's words&deeds, like this:
    "There's no doubt in my mind that once these people are gone(the Baathists), then we will be welcomed as liberators."
    --John McCain  March 24, 2023
    Is this the kind of judgment America needs?
  • simonesdad2008
    Here is the best case made thus far to vote for Barack Obama courtesy of Mr. JarrodM.

    "The steam engine (John McCain) went away for a reason and it was not because someone DEMANDED that it go away with policy. but rather people made a choice."

    It's a market based argument that applies so perfectly to the steam engine that is John McCain's frame of reference.  To a man who can not operate a computer, the steam engine is cutting edge technology.  JarrodM rightly points out that we the people have deemed the steam engine obsolete.  We have a newer, more effective way to get where we are going as a country.  We don't have to demand change.  Change will come because the circumstances and the market demands it.  You are still free to use the steam engine.  The Amish still ride around in horse and buggy.  No one is denying your choice or right to choose.  I'm getting on that rocket ship and shooting for the stars.  That's what the market is about and that's what this country is about. 

    Maybe McCain can use the steam created by his anger to power is engine.  Now that's what I call alternative energy sources...
  • JarrodM
    TOE,

      Since we finally found a topic that I think we might have a little bit of agreement on, that being the over spending by politicians of the middle classes hard earned money. I would love to hear how your guy is going to make this better. Because I have a hard time understanding how he is going to increase spending by trillions with his new services such as universal health care, and yet he is going to balance the budget. Just thinking about this is making my wallet shrink.

    It sure would be nice to see the Government for once lower it's spending and taxes at the same time.
  • JarrodM
    TOE and SIMONSDAD Just calling it as I see it.

    In case you missed it TOE, I never said that agreed with the amount of money that Bush is spending. In fact I have a lot of cuts that I would love to see him make, for example, WELFARE, and anything else that involves redistribution of wealth.

    The only money that the Government should be spending is on Defense, and Public service Goods such as roads, and bridges. All of this other crap like pork spending needs to go.

    The fact of the matter like I alluded to above, by the time any of these politicians get in office, they have so many promises that have to be meet it is not funny.



    The fact of the matter like I alluded to above, by the time any of these politicians get in office, they have so many promises that have to be meet it is not funny.

    Simonsdad, yes I did, admitidly you usually use your brain a little more then that.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    Toe, WHEN did Ronald Reagan use the word "Negro"? I am certain it was when he was governor of California, when it was, regrettably, acceptable. Again, try as you might, "Negro" is UNACCEPTABLE in 2008 in the United States. And as far as being  a "snitch", he put the interests of the United States ahead of those who were trying to subvert the nation. Look, I know that it is hard for facts to get in the way of ancient rhetoric, but many files have been released from the old Soviet Union proving that they were infiltrating the federal government and the arts, especially movies and the advent of television. Too bad that those in Hollywood at the time were so gutless that they hid behind the constitution could not just come out and admit that they were sympathetic to the Soviet Union and communism. BTW, do you have a name? I at least have my name on my posts!
  • toe
    jarrod, do you have electricity in your cave?

    here's a chart for you: http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Cha...

    now, kindly find something factual on your end.
  • simonesdad2008
    Retard?  Mr. JarrodM did you call me a retard?  I must of struck a nerve to illicit such a measured and intelligent response.
  • JarrodM
    Not sure if this information is accurate, but I thought that others would find it intreasting. One thing that I have always thought, regardless of your political party, is that by the time a person can become president, they are so tainted do to all of the power plays that they have to make to reach office, I wonder if their should not be a better way.

    http://www.barackobamaassociates.info/

    If anyone can find a site like this for McCain it would be cool to compaire .
  • JarrodM
    Toe as usual you don't add much to the conversation, not sure what you are getting at.

    @David
       I was not calling you lazy, but you have to understand with the number of people that we are talking about we have to make generalities. Just like the generality of Conservatives is that we are Bible Thumbing gun nutz.
      I think that the main point that we disagree at, and this is what I was alluding to in my previous post is that you believe that there needs to be a policy put into place to DEMAND a change in what energy source we are using. Let the market drive this. If there is profit to be made in taking Bananas and making fuel out of it, it would happen.
       The steam engine went away for a reason and it was not because someone DEMANDED that it go away with policy. but rather people made a choice.
       You talk about companies forcing change in policy. I beg to differ with you on that. It is the policies that the nuts like the serria club, and these fascist animal right activist that have made it impossible for oil companies to drill in prim locations, under cutting our ability to be self sufficient. like it or not, but Fossil fuel is going to be the primary source of energy for a very very long time. There are companies and research facilities that are looking into alternative means, and when they become doable they will compete. Have faith in your fellow man, they have gotten us this far.
        No it is not a perfect situation that there is a deficient, I think that we all would love for the Government to balance the budget. There are draw backs to the Government owing money to the people. First tax payer money goes to paying just the interest not the debt, sort of like paying less then the minimum payment on a credit card. Also anyone can own this dept to include foreign nations. But for the most part it is owned by people like you and me, and it is not as bad as the media would like to make it sound. I’m not sure I understand how Democrats can even bring this subject to the debate since it is congress not the president that spends money, and if Barrack does become president, he has already promised that he is going to try and get legislation passed that is going to increase the Federal Budget larger then it has ever been with his entitlement plans such as health care.

    @simonsdad  Just wanted to let you know that you are still a retard. To even suggest that conservatives would think that what that guy did in that church was right, and then to make it sound like all conservatives are OK with that sort of behavior just shows your lack of intelligence.
      How many extreme lefties have killed and maimed for their cause, look at Barracks good buddy William Ayers, or the lunatics that blow up research centers to save Rats. Both sides are guilty of insanity, so let's all just stop trying to pretend that there is not blood on each side. both sides have their idiots that make them look bad.
  • toe
    i guess this goes under the "ignorance is bliss" file- but i have to share it with you since it reminded me of some of you here:
    a friend of mind is rehabbing following surgery and is staying with a friend until she is able to travel back home...as a conversation starter, she asked her friend if she was watching the HBO series: "The Tudors"?
    her friend's response: "What's it about, farts?"

    oh dear.
  • David W. Walters
    So Jarrod, you'd have me believe that a budget deficit is good for the nation?
    It may be good for someone, but that wouldn't be me.
    And i have no problem with a company making a profit and re-investing these profits to create more profits.  What could be more American than that?  But a corporation, has only one motive, and that is profit.  If public policy gets in the way of greater profits, well then they are committed to changing that public policy, even to the detriment of the vast majority of Americans who own little stock in these companies.  A working stiff pays the same tax rate, and vastly higher fuel bill, which takes up an enormous amount of one's personal budget.  Do i drive less?  How about the CEO of Exxon/Mobile?  He may roll his eyes a bit at the cost to fuel up that corporate jet.......but he will fly on.

    Right now we have an opportunity to begin to seek sources other than fossil fuels to make our economy run.  The oil companies would have us drill more, and try to sell America on the truthiness of this path........because ANYTHING else does not add to their bottom line.  But their bottom line is not the public policy we need to follow.  True, more drilling is necessary.....but the energy corporations that operate in this country, and use OUR resources and infrastructure must join in with the citizens and tax payers of this country to diversify our energy options.  This is where federal regulations come into play.

    Jarrod, as to any perceived laziness on my part.....it has been earned.  If work is defined as calories expended on the job, workin' for "the man".......well i am sure i rate in the upper 1/10 of 1% on that scale during my 30 yrs. as a working stiff.  This liberal is neither lazy, nor ignorant.
  • JarrodM
    It amazes me the audacity of these two, you have to hand it them they are persistent. I'm not sure that I find enough time in the day to read all my E-MAIL let alone blog as much as these two do.

    Any way, you are over concerned about the deficit. Do you even understand what it is? Yes it is true that the deficit, is money that the government has spent that they have not collected. But it is money that people and banks have invested in our nation. In other words when you go out and purchase a T bound, you own part of the deficit. So in essence the American people own the deficit, that they get interest on each year until the US Government pays off the deficit.

    It is sort of like the Oil profits. You liberals all act like one guy, or a group of people are taking these profits and putting them in their pockets. The profits go to pay the investors, who just happen to be the people who own stock in these companies, that is what it means to be a publicly owned company. So every one that has a retirement plan, or a 401k most likely has stock in these supposed evil oil companies.

    Trickle down economics works great when there are not so many people being so lazy. You help business, small and large create jobs, by lowering the tax burden on them, this makes it cheaper to manufacture goods, and they can use that money to invest in a work force.
     
    To me the key difference in the mainstream liberal, and mainstream conservative is this.
     
    MC ask the world to let them do it, to let them make a difference. Their actions will only be supported by the people if they are happy with the results by purchasing their goods. If the company or product is found to be unwanted by society, then it will fail. The same can be said about their life style. If this individual is lazy, or people find them to be un-wanted because of crimes, trust issues, or even moral issues, then this person has failed themselves. MC believe that helping the poor and less fortunate is the function of society, and individuals by giving to charity groups.
     
    ML DEMAND that the world provide for them. The demand that jobs be created, or the Government takes care of them. They demand that a persons deficiencies be over looked, and in fact if they are looked at it should be a crime. They demand that the Government take from the rich, to give to the poor.
     
    The fact is that in the end we all want the same, it is just the way that we go about it. I for one have a set of morals that I live by, and I refuse to let you or the Government infringe on them. I fell that I have the right as an individual to remain free and not have my liberties infringed on, to include not by the Government (ie try taking my guns away). I also feel the obligation to protect this nation, even if that means I might have to sacrifice my life for her. I know that this world is not fair, and that many have it much worse then I do. But I also know that as a member of society, I can make a difference by volunteering, and donating to organizations I believe in. I have faith in my fellow man to conduct them selves in a righteous way, and I expect my Government to enforce laws, not make up laws. I don't need some one else telling me how to live my life, there are only three people qualified to do that, and they are my parents, and my wife.
  • David W. Walters
    UC.....impressed by logic, no doubt!
    i've been busy moving in to my new crib here in Fayetteville, so i can take care of my Reagan-loving mom.......
    I'm thinking of suing Bill O'Reilly&Fox News for driving her insane w/ fear, lol.....
    You know me, just tryin' to make some sanity outta this insane world.
  • Guest
    And Walters is back folks ... trying to stir up trouble and at the same making some key allies (Toe).  I'm impressed.
  • David W. Walters
    "Whatever it takes, whatever it costs, this patient, this resolved nation will win the first war of the 21st century," U.S. President George W. Bush said in a speech to the Reserve Officers Association on Jan. 23, 2002.

    Robert.......thanx for that info.......so your telling me that even with these cuts we still have these record setting deficits?  WoW!
    Amber's concerns are for real?

    Time to set us stupid libs straight conservatives!  Explain that "Trickle Down" thing again.......and how are we gonna balance the budget?
    Gee, i'd like to know.
  • Robert Simpson
    Actually David, those boats have been cancelled because of the expense involved. That just happened a couple of days ago though.

    I have found this site to be very informative in the thinking of the conservative blogger. I have just started doing this, and it hasn't been that long since I even heard the word blogging. But, it is fun LOL.

    My last word on the subject of this thread...

    Everyone, please do your homework on this election. I feel that it is the most important choice I have seen in my lifetime. Whoever you choose to vote for, let it come from knowledge, and the search for the truth that hides behind the campaigns and news rooms.

    Take the time to review both candidates voting records as well as their platforms. You might be surprised by the statistics you find on McCain as it relates to him voting to support our troops. You might be surprised to find that statistics show that Obama has had far less complimentary coverage on the Big Three TV Stations than McCain. You might be surprised to find out what the "Enron Loophole" is, and McCains involvment in creating this economic mess we are in, (with this you will find out who really drives McCain's wagon.)

    See, the truth is out there, but for some reason the primary networks do not carry such things, and unfortunately most people don't want to take the time to learn. They would rather have someone lead them around by the nose.

    Peace, and God bless.
  • David W. Walters
    lol toe!
  • David W. Walters
    uh.......i'm not exactly a republican, but:

    http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/nssn.htm

    At  approx. $2.5BILLION apiece with about 15 boats slated to be commissioned(in addition to the ones we have already).........now i don't know if this is JUST the costs of the boats or if the weapons systems are extra,(Someone answer this question please)
    Now.........how do these very expensive boats help to fight the Taliban or find Bin Laden?
    Is this cost effective?
    Do we need them?
  • toe
    and, my final word on the subject, mark- by your very definition (see post #66) you agree that reagan was racist since, he was, in point of fact- the one that used "the Negro".  isn't it lovely that we agree on something.
  • amber
    I have a question for Republicans.  How can we afford wage the most expensive war since WWII, while simultaneously cutting taxes for the wealthy, who in my view do not share equally in the bourdon of dying in this war. I am a registered democrat but i will  appreciate and consider any response thanks.
  • toe
    oh...and mark...your hero, was also a snitch for the FBI during the mc carthy era and the house un-american activities hearings.  what a guy, your hero.
  • toe
    mark...mark...mark...
    you get so excited...and so nasty...and you are so wrong.

    you really need to bone up on your hero there, mark. 
    his words and the use of the word in question:
    "It doesn't do good to open doors for someone who doesn't have the price to get in. If he has the price, he may not need the laws. There is no law saying the Negro has to live in Harlem or Watts. "
    ~Ronald Reagan
  • simonesdad2008
    All I can say is wow!  Young Derek represents the true essence of the Obama supporter.  Stand aside grumpy old white men.  This is the type of energy that will tip the scales.  I imagine this kid is more up on the issues than the average voter and is motivated and energized.  you certainly don't hear this kid saying, well he's the lesser of two evils or whatever other nonsense you cons are throwing out there.  UC you would be wise to take notice.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    Toe, please stop! You know that NO ONE uses the term Negro anymore. Stop trying to sound like some intellectual. You got caught using what is now a racist term. If anyone used that term publicly the way you did on this blog, you would rightfully be called a racist. I know this is hard for you, but I am going to assume that you are in the United States. As such, we do not use the word Negro to describe blacks. They are either blacks or African-Americans. I think that you are a fraud. You got caught and you try some intellectual claptrap to weasel out of it!
  • Robert Simpson
    A news report that this site won't let me post a link to...

    BUSH TO LEAVE OFFICE WITH NATIONAL DEBT UP $500,000,000,000 !!!!

    He came in with the biggest surplus this country has ever had, and squandered it all!!!
  • toe
    indeed, david. a very impressive young man.  i have placed both videos on my groups as well as on my personal blog.
  • David W. Walters
    Toe, in the context of "perceptions....."
    this young man stands stereotypes on their head.  He is the face of new voters, that aren't buying into this Hannity/Limbaugh/Fox News Bullshit.
    Are you listening UC?  Are you sure you're on the RIGHT side?
  • toe
    great clip!!  mahalo for finding it, david.
  • David W. Walters
    http://illseed.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/the-wro...
    This reporter is trying sooooooo tryin' to trip up this intelligent Obama supporter.......
  • toe
    and mark...explain to me, just what have i said that would cause you to drag out the "socialist" label ?  people like you, i am not certain whether it's best to help them back to their rubber room - or just let them wander aimlessly about.
  • toe
    "but I would wager lots of people who have guns illegally and participate in gang violence are supporting Obama this year. "

    what an irresponsible statement, alden- have you been reading anything other than bathroom walls lately?
  • toe
    WoW, Mark!! did you know that not all people of african ancestory live in the united states?  for your further education and edification ,  negro means "black" in spanish and portuguese...and, in italy the word "negro" is still used neutrally by many people. (kind of puts a puka in your little butterfly net, doesn't it??!)
  • AldenxOhhh
    I'll admit it's true that lots of people who have guns legally happen to be conservative, but I would wager lots of people who have guns illegally and participate in gang violence are supporting Obama this year.  People will have illegal firearms whether we outlaw guns or not- the fact that a gun is fairly easily purchased through legal means doesn't seem to stop the problem of unlicensed firearms.  They get them from illegal arms dealers, not taking a road trip to Texas and stealing guns from some crazy conservative's ranch, and they certainly aren't doing drive-bys with camo hunting rifles from Dick's sporting goods.   I'm not sure you're making a valid argument there.  


    There aren't a whole lot of successful countries that follow the liberal methods either.  Even some of the more liberal places in Europe like the UK and France have begun to elect more conservative leaders after their economies started to slide.
  • David W. Walters
    ......a liberal shoots up a church?  Insanity runs across party lines, huh?
    And to Mark....
    <the "accomplishments" you cite of the Clinton years. Much of what he "accomplished" was due to a Republican congress for six of his eight years in office."> And what's wrong with reaching across the isle.....that is what is commonly referred to as  LEADERSHIP.......something we could use again, no matter which candidate wins in November.   It just seems to me that the republicans have never recovered from Watergate, have they?
  • simonesdad2008
    A church was shot up and two people killed because of its so-called liberal views in TN.  It's interesting how you never hear about liberals shooting up churches or bombing clinics etc.  The logical conclusion of unchecked conservatism is violence.  Guns for everyone, war as diplomacy, death as penalty.  When I asked why there was no conservative country as a model of all conservative principles realized, Reaper told me there is no such place because it's too difficult and people always choose the easy (read liberal) way out.  I submit that people don't want to live in your country because church should be safe from gunfire regardless of your views.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    WOW! Toe, did you know that "Negroes" are now known as African-Americans? Hmm, I suspect a little latent racisim on your part. But of course, not you, liberal that knows better than the rest of us! And, as far as the "accomplishments" you cite of the Clinton years. Much of what he "accomplished" was due to a Republican congress for six of his eight years in office. Toe, your ideas are as antiquated as the Soviet Union. And, you do expose yourself to not being a liberal but an outright socialist. As far as "misuse" of the name of Obama, I am ahead of the curve. When a man was asked in Germany thought of "the speech" he said "He is my new messiah". Sorry that hurts your feelings. You and your ilk have sullied President Bush's name for seven plus years and you get offended because I refer to Obama as Messiah. BOO! HOO!
  • David W. Walters
    "reagan was a pay shill of the plutocrats, who used his charm and acting skills to hawk, like soap, mean spirited social policies and sell a fantasy version of the american dream to common folk that trusted him. income was redistributed to the wealthy as never before: during the 1980s, most of the country's income gains went to the top 1 or 2 percent of households. we have paid for it ever since."
    ––your phrase about the soap reminds me of the SOAP Reagan used to sell (Borax, i believe the name was)....on "The Death Valley Days.  Then (as prez) he proceed'd to sell the notion that Liberalism is a bad word, and what ever you say about the guy, he could sell a product.......Liberal is still a bad word.
    But like I said up top, Americans are smarter than we were 28 yrs ago.
  • toe
    and...(here come those facts again)

    and...as for your "conservative" hero: in the first two years of the reagan administration, his policy was a forced economic recession and de- industrialization of the united states.  he cut federal low income housing funds by 84%; his tax cuts for the rich, his “trickle-on” the poor and working class economics ended up tripling all previously existing U.S. government debt.
    reagan was anti-labor, anti-Negro, anti-intellectual, anti-planning, anti-20th century. reagan campaigned against the civil rights movement, the peace movement, and the student rights movement.
    reagan reached out and embraced the racist apartheid government of south africa through his policy of so- called “constructive engagement.”
    the problem with the "great communicator" was the content of his messages. reagan was a pay shill of the plutocrats, who used his charm and acting skills to hawk, like soap, mean spirited social policies and sell a fantasy version of the american dream to common folk that trusted him. income was redistributed to the wealthy as never before: during the 1980s, most of the country's income gains went to the top 1 or 2 percent of households. we have paid for it ever since.
  • toe
    concerning your flapping about clinton and his failure to realize the potential of a terrorist threat, upon leaving office, clinton and his staff went out of their way to inform bush on this. bush was not interested and dismissed it.  the attacks on 9-11 happened on bush's watch. try to remember this (it's such a bother when facts get in the way, isn't it?).
    concerning the bush administration's actions regarding the terrorist treat, and from richard clarke's book:
    "...Delayed meetings on counterterrorism. When, in January 2001, Clarke "urgently" requested a meeting with the Cabinet to plan the prevention of future al-Qaida attacks, he got his meeting not in January but in April. And not with the Cabinet but with a group of deputy secretaries. At the meeting, Paul Wolfowitz objected to his agenda—"I just don't understand why we are beginning by talking about this one man bin Laden"—and argued that Iraqi terrorism was an equally serious threat. The Cabinet-level meeting on al-Qaida did not take place until Sept. 4, 2001. "
    "... Discontinued Predator flights over Afghanistan. Clarke thought armed Predator drones could be used to kill al-Qaida members in Afghanistan without risking American lives. Clinton had authorized several unarmed flights in September and October of 2000, and "from the camera images on three flights," Clarke was convinced the drones had found Bin Laden. The Air Force agreed to prepare armed Predators for use in the spring of 2001. But the Bush administration didn't use them until after the Sept. 11 attacks."

    ...bush had neither the judgement nor the interest to follow up on the terrorist threat until it was too late.
  • toe
    hmmm... let's see, accomplishments of the clinton era,... why, thank you for asking.  how about taking a look at domestic issues first:

    let's start with the longest economic expansion in u.s. history.
    moving from record defiicits to record surplus.
    paying off the national debt.
    more than 22 million new jobs.
    fastest and longest real wage growth in over three decades.
    household income broke $40,000 for the first time in history.
    unemployment the lowest in three decades.
    highest homeownership in u.s. history.
    lowest poverty rate since 1979.
    increased the minimum wage.
    the adopton and safe families act.
    the workforce investment act.
    fairness for legal immigrants.
    the HOPE scholarships and lifetime learnings tax credits.
    expanded work study and pell grants.
    more high quality teachers and lower class sizes.
    turned around failing schools.
    expanded access to technology with the technology literacy challenge fund.
    establised the gear up mentoring program.
    provided early education to 900,000 children with head start.
    lowest crime rate in generations.
    more than 100,000 additional police on the streets.
    lowest percentage of americans on welfare in over 35 years.
    expanded investment in urban and rural areas with empowerment zones and enterprize communities.
    enacted most comprehensive medicare reforms in history.
    enacted single largest investment in health care for children since 1965.
    passed meaningful health insurance reform.
    increased environmental protection and preservation of national forests and shorelines.
    unprecedented investment in biomedical research.
    smallest federal civilian workforce in 40 Years.
    slowest per capita growth of government spending since the 1950's.

    there is good reason why americans look favorably upon the clinton years and the many accomplishments, both foreign and domestic, during his administration.
    ........
    i would list the many reasons why i respect, admire, favor, and will vote for  obama but, not only have i done this in previous posts- i can see by your continued misuse and abuse of his name that you have no actual interest in this... for your mind  is not open to discussion only ridicule. 
    if you are actually interested , get back to me.
  • David W. Walters
    "What POLICIES do you like and respect about Sen. Messiah Barack?"
    -Mark J. G.
    In the context of Why is Conservatism loosing it's grip on the American Electorate....

    Many thinking people are beginning to understand that the policies that have brought us to where we are today have failed this once great nation.
    The conservative excuses for America's problems.........(their policies) have spawned such great ideas like, deregulating the banking industry, lowering taxes on the wealthy, and war in Iraq.

    These same thinking people are rejecting the conservative talking points, and are willing to take a chance on an untried method.  Policies?  We need thoughtful Leadership......not more BullShit and excuses.

    That is why this veteran is voting for Obama
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    Yes, but they were NOT conservatives. And, like it or not, Ronald Reagan changed the Republican party. And, sarcasm aside, what are the wonderful things that the last Democrat to occupy the Oval Office that you can mention? Let us see, letting Osama bin-Laden get away, not reacting to the rise of Islamofacist terror. Oh, maybe welfare reform. That was courtesy of a Republican congress. Again, I do not have the need for the Untied States to be loved by everyone in the world. I want the United States to be respected by friends and feared by foes. I ask what it is that you respect about Sen. Messiah Barack? And, what is it you like? What POLICIES do you like and respect about Sen. Messiah Barack? Oh, and if you say socialized medicine, then I think that you are naive to think that it is going to be the wonder that you think it is. Ask the people of Canada who end up having to come here, to the terrible United States so that they can have a simple MRI in less than three months. Yes, everyone gets insured, but don't get a serious illness. If you do not mind waiting for routine tests and or operations. I know that you believe that it is what the government can do for you, not what you can do for it. Typical of today's left.
  • toe
    yes, i agree with you, mark...it really has been terrible with george bush the current in charge of things for the past 7+ years. could not agree more.
    i don't know what question you feel went unanswered... if you are asking me to label those past presidents you listed- we all know that they were registered republicans and ran as such. and your point is.....?

    oh, and obama is not only well respected, he is also well liked. here and around the world. once again, your point is....?
  • toe
    oh dear, alden- you really need to examine what you're saying -michelle's words were not taken out of context, the meaning of her statement was entirely ALTERED by the intentional deletion of one key word. this is what you fail to see.

    you level many charges concerning obama's "social programs" but i do wish that you could come up with something specific and how this would not be good for "america's longevity".

    you are certainly entitled to your opinion as to temperament- but, once again, i don't feel that you are privy to actual facts regarding the "temperament" of the two candidates in question. mc cain's patience, vulgarity, and quick temper is documented in many areas and has been witnessed by members of the senate.

    experience? lately mc cain has been saying "i know how to win wars" oh? when did this happen? what war did he win? what experience does mc cain have in waging war. ZERO. ZIP.

    he is so out of touch, he named countries that don't even exist any longer- so befuddled that he is unclear as to what countries border iraq, and while claiming to be such an expert on iraqi affairs and progress- his timelines that he has quoted have been in error. so you have a man applying for the job of president that will have access to "the button" 24 hours a day - has promised there will be "more wars", wants to bomb iran and has a temper like nobody's business, and is totally bassackwards on his information regarding iraq. and, not only are his "foreign policy" plans and memory horribly jumbled, he has not a clue concerning economics... this is the man you prefer. goodness.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    It is interesting that neither Robert or "toe" answered the question that I posed in the previous post. My thought. For you, it is more important to be liked than to be respected. That is why you are buying into the "one world" mantra. Seriously, it does not work. Better leaders have tried and the reality is that nationalism is on the rise. And, radical Islam. You may want to bury your heads in the sand and pretend that it is not there. And before you buy into the poverty malarky, note that all the 9/11 hijackers were highly educated. Osama bin-Laden is very wealthy. His #2 is a doctor. No, you have drank the Kool-aid of wanting to be loved. It has really been terrible to have George W. Bush as president the past seven years. Please!
  • AldenxOhhh
    My point was that both men- and Michelle, too- said something meant to appeal to their current audience that got taken out of context and blown out of proportion. I think we can concede none of the statements here are representative of how their speakers feel, but if you're going to nail McCain for a blunder there are blunders for Obama to be held accountable for as well, and since their wives have become public figures they also are going to have to deal with being quoted by the press. That's politics.

    I'm not sure why you're personally attacking me...? Its not going to hurt my feelings that you don't like my hair or the fact that i dress situationally appropriate. But for the record, although there are aspects of each candidates personality I don't like, I don't feel Obama's social programs would be good for America's longevity. I don't feel he has the expirience or the temperment to handle a war with Iran (should the situation come to that). I doubt many of his programs would be realistically passed by congress, which leads me to believe that after his far-reaching, expensive proposals have been picked apart by congress, interest groups and lobbyists there won't be a whole lot of "change" left.
  • simonesdad2008
    So which is it Ms. Alden, policy or personality or both? You state you are opposed to just about every policy point. Then you immediately follow that statement with a statement of personal dislike for the man. Then you go back to policy. Then you mix the two. Then you equate a statement with war as similarly funny. Then you question his Christianity. It sounds like you are swinging wildly, trying to connect somewhere. The problem, my dear, is that you reaffirm the caricature of the desperate right. Just throw any and everything at Barack and see what sticks. You obviously go to great lengths to appear different form everyone else (except, of course, when you are going door to door for the republicans). I wish you would devote more time to your political discourse instead of just regurgitating republican talking points. The truth is you vote republican for the shock factor. Tattoos, pink hair, piercings...shock factor. Once you told me you "cover up" when conducting official republican business, you exposed yourself as a total fraud. That more than anything is what you have in common with you right wing friends.
  • AldenxOhhh
    Toe, Simpson- I am sincerely glad you've found your own personal Jesus, but I don't think anyone else here is going to drink the kool-aid.

    It's not that I hate blue states- I'm from New York. It's not that I hate liberals- I've served on the executive board of some very liberal organizations, and even worked with the Bob Casey campaign to get Rick Santorum out of office while in school in PA. I'm not fundamentally against ever crossing party lines, I'm not racist.

    But I am opposed to just about every single one of Obama's policy points.I just don't like him! I have no hidden agenda. It's his policies- You know, that list of stuff you want him to do after he's done looking pretty and saying nice things that make you feel good. War with Iran wouldn't be funny, but I didn't think it was funny when my good friends and neighbors got accused of clinging to guns and religion to make themselves feel better. How was that not classist? How can a Christian say that about another Christian? Both candidates have slipped up, as is natural.
  • David W. Walters
    Watchin' "Hannity's America"
    Starting out his show with another tired old relic.......Reagan.
    The GOP needs new ideas and heroes.........
    UC, when you gonna work for Fox News?
    And infuse some youthfulness in that tired old party(TOP).
    I mean, Fox News is the official mouthpiece of the TOP, right?
  • toe
    exactly, mr. simpson. mahalo again for rational thought.

    it's time to put aside labels- save them for clothing and canned goods- part of the appeal for obama by many is his call for the need to come together as one people which has resonated around the country- not red states vs. blue states- not republican vs. democrat - not rich against poor- and not christian vs. everybody else ...but to come together to work as one people- as americans- for this is what we are. we are all colors, we are all religions, we are all different in many ways but there's one thing that we are ALL - we are americans. creating divisiveness, name-calling, race baiting, all of this is 100% non-productive and serve only to create anger, suspicion and hate.

    being from hawaii, i was more familiar with obama that many of you here. anyone who has ever lived in hawaii understands the meaning of "live aloha". obama carries this with him.

    his speech at the democratic convention was not just a show stopper that turned heads at the time- for the past 8 years he has been on the political scene nationally. this past week you saw how he is seen around the world- how he carried himself and how he was received- not just by world leaders but also by the world's press as well as individual citizens. our military gave him a standing ovation in iraq. the american people are anxious to be proud of their president once again.

    michelle obama said: "for the first time in my adult life, i am really proud to be an american"... go back and listen to what she said "...REALLY proud..." detractors have intentionally left out part of this quote in their quest to add suspicion. i ask you all, why? why do this? they not only misquoted her- they have run with the misquote ever since...hannity is still doing it...so is rush... so is o'reilly, so is beck...so is savage. i know- i listen to them all. (although savage is so vile a few minutes is all i can take, if that).

    i have been on this site because huge misrepresentations and assertions have been waged concerning the obama campaign. fear mongering thrives here. war mongering thrives here. logic and reason seems entirely foreign to many. the republicans have put up a candidate that thinks "bomb, bomb, bomb iran" is funny. war is never funny.

    many here seem to feel that because obama sat on the same board as a gentleman who, nearly 40 years ago, was active with the weathermen. (a gentleman who was, incidentally, never charged with anything) people here seem to think that somehow obama is tainted because of this association. in '69 i was tear gassed in washington, dc because the national guard was given the order to tear gas the weathermen that also were there protesting along with the 350,000+ of us. i marched with angela davis in san francisco in '68- what does that make me?
    according to the 1 + 1 = 3 logic seen here, i am a bad person by mere association.
    in the haight, my downstairs neighbor was singing at the fillmore- perhaps you might have heard of her- janis? i enjoyed her music- but not her drug of choice: heroin. am i a drug crazed hippie? many here would have you think so merely by my association and my address.

    my father was a mormon, my stepmother an ex-nun- my stepfather was black, my children are eurasian- i come from a background that has taught me that not everything is cut and dry, black or white, right or wrong... no. there are shades of grey. it's time to stop trying to label people, stop the ridicule, stop the fear mongering, start thinking and begin trying to understand people as human beings
  • Robert Simpson
    Reaper, you sound so similar to the rants of Bill O'Riley that I figure he must be one of your heros. He also demands negative proof where proof is not needed, nor the subjects even of concern. He also uses unsupported accusations as facts. He is misleading, and unfortunately he, and his kin, have mislead you.

    You appear to be an intelligent person, so I wonder what it is about you that you have ignored all the facts that toe and David Walter's, among others, have so elequently related. These facts are not secret, they are not even debatable. But you continue, in the same vein as the conservative spokespersons and leaders this blog originally referred to.

    They have failed the conservative movement through their obvious, and continuing misrepresentations of... hmmm, practically everything. They see nothing beyond their paranoid representations, and are incapable of developing anything new. The possibilities of the future are extinguished by their never ending poisenous rhetoric.

    Yes, reaper, I changed! I decided to become an Intelligent American first and give up on designations beyond that goal. We are in a new world, new circumstances, new ideas, new challanges, and new perils. As Americans we can no longer afford to think we can handle everything as we have in the past. The world is too small now and we are, whether we like it or not, swiftly becoming citizens of the world also. It is in America's interest to rid ourselves of the old-world negativity of the current conservative movement and develop a new America that works with the world, not against it.

    That is the road to survival and growth for America. The conservative movement may some day come to realize they also have to grow. When that time comes I will happily call myself a conservative again. Now, I am only an American.
  • toe
    again, reaper- the charges made regarding war crimes are there- the deeds have been done. ms plame was a covert CIA agent- her outing was an act of treason. FACT. mr bush stated that he would track down the source of this leak and that person would be "taken care of". uh huh.

    they not only refused to cooperate with congress and the prosecutor- bush commuted the sentence of the one person charged in this case. yup. he took "care of it". FACT: approval for the mistreatment of prisoners came directly from the white house and the pentagon. torture, humiliation and rendition- clearly against the geneva convention. FACT: bush approved illegal wiretaps. FACT: the justice department and the executive branch acted in tandem to usurp the existing laws of the land. FACT: the administration, while claiming they did nothing wrong have refused to cooperate with congress - claiming executive privilege where it did not apply. one of the prime areas of congress is oversight- this is their job. this administration is in contempt of congress.

    one reason that congress has not been too keen on impeachment is that they have been complacent in allowing the expansion of presidential powers, complacent in lack of oversight, the media has been complacent - blind support for an invasion while being spoon fed misinformation and never lifting a pencil or digit to investigate further. this has been a republican controlled congress- even now, the senate has been stalled in many areas because of a lack of a solid democratic majority.
    it seems that you are unwilling to understand not just this HUGE mistake -ridden administration- the ineptitude displayed by cronys appointed by bush -favoritism and paybacks for support rather than having the best and most qualified person for the job- the no-bid contracts that have boggled the mind and cheated the government out of billions of dollars, engaged illegal activities and sub-standard work causing deaths of our military personnel- the arrogance displayed by this administration in it's refusal to listen to all sides and seek diplomatic resolution- the "pre-emptive" war strategy- what part of all this do you not wish to see????
  • David W. Walters
    Reaper,
    If one could encapsulate this conflict in a phrase to show the ignorance and lack of judgment that has prevailed, Yes,"...........Bring it on!" would be it.
    No, sadly this conflict isn't over. When i hear "We are winning", or "The surge is working!" it reminds me of Westmorland in 1967 speaking of "the light at the end of the tunnel"............... How many of the benchmarks of success have been met? Is it even worth it?(Oil companies aside).
    Hopefully Americans are beginning to see through Conservative Bullshit Philosophy, that dresses up a corporate money grab for sound policy. No, much more than window dressing is need'd for the conservative movement to capture the imagination of thinking Americans.
    Perhaps these companies that have profited from this ill-conceived adventure can somehow give a portion of those profits to the cause........perhaps giving shares to the families of the dead, as well as to the injured service members.
  • Reaper
    Toe, again, you can rattle off perceived illegalities but the fact is that even under a democratic Congress he hasn't been impeached, much to the chagrin of many senators & representatives. Do you think they're LYING when they say they want him impeached? Or do you think that -- perhaps -- the charges aren't so clear-cut as you are suggesting they are?

    Also, I dunno what you gleaned from my comment on Obama, but I was saying that he ISN'T a Muslim until someone comes forward with compelling evidence to prove it.

    David...you're using a single quote to encapsulate the entirety of a conflict that isn't even over yet? Moreover, you're using those three words to indict Bush?

    I pray you never our judicial system.
  • toe
    i never said that i was a republican- nor am i a "conservative"- even though the two are not mutually exclusive.

    as i have said in a previous post- national opinion, with regards to politics in the US, the pendulum swings to and fro in order to correct their collective perceived need to correct the status quo... this consensus was reached and exacerbated significantly once the majority of americans realized the many problems this administration has caused and the many needs of this nation that have been neglected....problems both global and local, needs that include the urgency to invest in alternative and renewable energy sources, the urgency to invest monies to correct failing infrastructure throughout the nation, the need to examine legislation that requires any government contract awarded would be not just a US business- but a US business on US soil that pays US taxes. election reform, campaign finance reform, education needs, healthcare needs are but a few of the many areas that have been placed on the back burner or ignored entirely during this administration and a republican-controlled congress that rubber-stamped and brown nosed rather than lead and serve this nation.

    ideology - whether it be religious or political- needs to be tempered with rational thought and sound judgment. this has not been the case for the past 7+ years.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    I have a question for Robert and "toe". Do you think that Richard Nixon was a conservative? Gerald Ford? Do you think that Ronald Reagan ruined the GOP? If you answered yes to all, then I am sorry but I do not think that you are conservatives. And, anyone who says that they are a conservative and will vote for Sen. Messiah Barack is no thinking clearly. Do you really think that Sen. Messiah Barack will somehow restore "civility" in politics? Of course not. In a democratic, republican system of government, there are two or more opposing views. That is why there is a tension. I like that. We have a governor in California who claims to be a Republican, yet I am still waiting for him to do something different than the Democrats. Please, do not write that you are conservative Republicans. You do not mean it. I have been a Republican since I could vote in 1982. And I have been proud to be a Republcan. And I am conservative. And I know non-conservatives when I read them
  • toe
    reaper, it seems that you have entirely missed the point of my post- i am talking about the downfall of the republican party- a fall brought about by their own selves through ineptitude due to unqualified personnel, falsifying and cherry picking information with regards to the run up to the iraqi invasion, illegal activities ranging from the outing of a covert CIA agent, to the cover-up of tillman's death by friendly fire, scandals of every sort, poor leadership, fiscal irresponsibility, blind allegiance to a president with no interest in oversight, blatant abuse of the justice department, rendition, torture, complete disregard of the rules of the geneva convention as they relate to "war criminals", no-bid contracts, a vice president that believes he not in the executive branch, contempt of congress, ...reaper, the list is very, very long- infractions are many- these are facts- some of these infractions are impeachable offenses- i know that you have the ability to search out items- if you are not happy with kucinich's articles of impeachment- go read what bill moyers or jonathan turley (a nationally recognized legal scholar and constitutional law expert) have to say regarding this administration's activities. it's all there.

    i don't know what your problem is regarding obama- never mind the fact that the constitution clearly states that there will be NO religious test/requirement for elective office- so you are already in deep kim chee on this- additionally, the fact is that he is not that which you claim. i am occasionally impressed with some of your posts, reaper- you seem almost rational at times...and then you come up with this. honestly, i really makes me wonder what in the world are you so afraid of? would you be happier if he was an atheist?
  • David W. Walters
    WoW!
    Reaper, do you really think Bush isn't the worst wartime prez ever?
    "Bring it on!"--How utterly stupid.......how many American lives did that statement cost us?
  • Reaper
    David: Yes the Iraqis are children, figuratively speaking. At this juncture, they are categorically incapable of staying aloft in the very rough world around them. Yeah, no good has come of the conflict so far, but as I mentioned at length, the benefits are in our future, and they are incalculably valuable.

    Robert: I'm a liberal, and the liberal base has completely abandoned my lifelong beliefs. I thusly blame democrats and liberals alike for running off course. You very well may be speaking the truth as seen through your eyes, but I'd be willing to bet that the change occurred in YOU, not everyone else.

    toe: I'm tempted to rattle off a list of perceived wrongs against society that the lefties/democrats perpetrated, but there's honestly no point. Suffice it to say, though, that few of your allegations against Bush and his party have any merit at all, and most are outright propaganda that you obviously had no dispute in swallowing. That's about the same as these people believing that Obama is a Muslim. Just cuz you say it don't make it true. It doesn't make it false, but the burden of proof is on the accusers, and I've yet to see any compelling proof of your allegations against Bush. Ditto on Obama's Muslim'hood.

    I will say, though, that all presidents from all wars in the 1900's (perhaps throughout history) were likely virulently demonized as Bush is today. History always manages to forget the emotional weight that these conflicts have with people and so all we see is the empirical evidence of success or failure. Simply put, this is nothing new. Bush isn't "the most" or "the worst" anything right now (outside of our deficit). Those who claim that he is without compelling evidence are being melodramatic and pathetically short sighted.
  • toe
    robert, thank you for your thoughtful response. the republican party used to be something entirely different- it was thoughtful and respectable ...sadly, this is no longer the case. they have allowed themselves to be identified with narrow mindedness and the every-man-for-himself attitude. newt's "contract with america" and the "moral majority" served not to lead or include americans but rather insult, dismiss, name-call, legislate against, and ridicule those that did not hold their version of morality, their version of what constituted a family, their version of what religions are acceptable, to name a few. many of these very individuals were later discovered to be involved in sex scandals of one sort or another- the self proclaimed moral majority were (and still are) seen as majorly hypocritical. of course the smoke and mirrors folks will be anxious to point out that sex scandals, money laundering, drug and alcohol abuse, child molestation, tax evasion, etc has involved democrats as well- no one disputes this... but the democrats did not run on a platform of "i am better than you are" as the republicans did.



    anyone who has followed closely what has transpired in washington for the past seven + years realizes that george bush the current has pounded securely in place the last nail in the republican's coffin. there are so few people that want to be identified with someone who will go down in america's presidential history as the absolute worst ever that the best they can come up with for a candidate is an old man who cannot remember what he said last week, what countries border iraq, has no clue concerning economic issues, thinks that gas is still $2.49, puts people to sleep the moment he starts to mumble, is advised by his own personal economic wizard that we are imagining our misery and that this is a nation of whiners, a man that is so personally out of touch with reality he has no clue what it means to grow up poor, to struggle, to live paycheck to paycheck...he is more interested in making certain that the top 2% of the nation's wealthiest get their tax break. mc cain is a bumbling old man that needs to sit down and take a rest.
  • Robert Simpson
    I am a grumpy old conservative white man. However, I despise Rush, Billo, and their friends as narrow minded and wrong idiots, totally incapable of fair, original, and productive thought. I was not surprised to hear Scott McClellan on TV telling the world that the White House has been feeding Fox News and other conservative reporters "talking points". So much for fair and balanced reporting.

    I am a grumpy old conservative white man. However, I believe that the republican party has abandoned not only me, but America and the world in their desire for political supremecy. I see nothing to hope for in the republican party of today. Their ideals and dogged pursuit of failed policies has left me sick and rejected.

    You speak of the conservative base. I have been the conservative base for all of my adult life, but the conservative leadership in this country no longer speaks to me. The conservative leadership has slipped into the darkness of fear mongering, hate, slander, and wrong ideas.

    I am a grumpy old conservative white man, and I am voting for Obama.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    This has provoked interesting, if not off track, comments. Too me, the Republican party is the natural home for conservatives. Sorry, while I lean in many way to Libetarian thought, the Libertarian party has some extreme positions that are not viable. The party though has a lot of people that are uncomfortable identifying themselves as conservative in the first place. That is something we need to get over. But, one way that I think we will see more minorites rise through the ranks if they are promoted in Republican districts. Here in California, the DA in Riverside County is Rod Pacheco. Would it not be great if this Republican were in congress or the senate? We have to get minorities involved in areas of the country that are NOT minority-centered. We can not win there. JC Watts won in seat in congress in 1994 in a very white district and was reelected several times. That is the model. I mean, I love Colin Powell, but he is not my kind of Republican. He would easily win the White House because he, not Sen. Messiah Barack, is seen as one who really had to come of age in the transition from segragation to desegratation. And, he does not use the blame game. Anyway, keep this going. It is a real and important disscussion we conservative Republicans need to have.
  • David W. Walters
    Reaper states:
    "BUT, we're there now and pulling out would be tantamount to kicking a 2 year old onto the street."
    Maybe this is the arrogance that many people speak of when describing U.S. policies.......do you actually think the Iraqi people are children?
    Do you actually believe they see us as "liberators"
    Americans want to believe in the in the "greatness" of America, but MANY are waking up and beginning to understand that the good nature collectively of the American public has been used by a greedy few.
    The only good so far, to come from this conflict has been Saddam&his boys lives, and securing oil contracts.........who profits from this? Not me, and certainly not the dead American service members.
  • Reaper
    Winning the War in Iraq is obviously defined as achieving a stable democracy. For our part, we are doing great. We're keeping the peace while their government gets its act together. The answer to the question of why we should be there in the first place is obvious: we shouldn't. BUT, we're there now and pulling out would be tantamount to kicking a 2 year old onto the street. We'd be killing them before they had a chance to thrive.

    The answer to the question of what we would gain by winning is also painfully obvious: we'd gain a stable middle eastern democracy comprised of our former enemies. If it thrives, the people in the region will need to look no further than their neighbors to see what it is to really live happily. I'm not so optimistic to think that a democratic Iraq will single handedly destroy Islamic fundamentalism, but it will SEVERELY undermine their efforts and cause a rift between the common people and the figureheads pulling the strings. Now my question to you: what do you think we'll lose by a loss in Iraq?
  • Yanni Woland
    "with a name like Yanni Woland, you must be a "grumpy old white man", no?"

    Ironically quite the opposite; High school student!

    Come to think of it my name does sound pretty grumpy :(


    "jarrod......

    lets see here. Shall we trust your awfully spelled definitions or those of the merriam-webster variety.

    Liberalism - (a disease* LOL) - a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.

    Libertarian - a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action

    Conservativism - such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)

    NOW, Jarrod, just one question for you. Who decides what is rotting society? Isnt Sex original sin? Now, if thats true, society has been rotting for quite a while now. See, what libertarians believe, is that it is not for you to decide what is rotting society beyond a few widely held moral beliefs. Does gay marraige really rot your world Jarrod?

    and UC, you called Ron Paul a liberal and lumped him in with the bunch in your Free Speech for All except conservatives article."

    Aah yes, the modern republican. So much kinder and more tolerant then those filthy democrats, who spread lies and disease.

    Honestly, can you be any less civil about it? Do you feel gratified when you call an opposing political ideology a disease, instead of excepting it as an alternative point of view? I'm not saying there aren't liberals guilty of the same intolerance, but should the "moral majority" be guilty of it as well?
  • heathenhater
    jarrod......

    lets see here. Shall we trust your awfully spelled definitions or those of the merriam-webster variety.

    Liberalism - (a disease* LOL) - a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties.

    Libertarian - a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action

    Conservativism - such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)

    NOW, Jarrod, just one question for you. Who decides what is rotting society? Isnt Sex original sin? Now, if thats true, society has been rotting for quite a while now. See, what libertarians believe, is that it is not for you to decide what is rotting society beyond a few widely held moral beliefs. Does gay marraige really rot your world Jarrod?

    and UC, you called Ron Paul a liberal and lumped him in with the bunch in your Free Speech for All except conservatives article.
  • David W. Walters
    Reaper,
    Your view about "winning" in Iraq underscores the change that i see in the perceptions of many Americans. The question many ask is......"Why are we in Iraq in the first place?" or "Who actually profits from our involvement there?"
    Winning in Iraq? Do a simple costs analysis.......what do the American people get out of it? Are we any closer to catching the perpetrators of 9/11?
    We can win a battle, yet still loose the war. That happened in Vietnam, remember?
    We elected Nixon in '68 to achieve "peace with honor".........how many died from 1969-1973? Was that so-called honor worth that? Hell NO!
  • Guest
    LOL, well I would like to think I have olive skin. : )
  • simonesdad2008
    Sorry UC. That was a cheap shot and I'm better than that. My apologies.
  • simonesdad2008
    I'll buy into your argument when the AldenxOhhh's of the world can represent you as they are. There are CEOs and sought after professionals out there at the top of their fields in T-shirts and jeans. This is most apparent in the computer/internet/technology field. Their talent and ability is unquestioned so their appearance is irrelevant. Isn't that the merit based society that cons talk about? Yeah, I agree if you walk into most law firms in jeans, you probably won't be hired on site until they find out you graduated at the top of your class at Harvard Law. SOMEONE will hire the top graduate from Harvard Law no matter what and it will have zero to do with his appearance. I think you are telling me there is no room for the top student from Harvard or anywhere if his/her appearance is not professional and they don't exhibit decorum. What you are saying, I think, is that you must look the part before you can be the part. That leads to what is acceptable as the look. That leads to well, this has always been the look so let's stick with that. Then that closes the doors to others. I won't call it racism or sexism. I'll call it familiarity. If you are not familiar, you are not considered. Who do consider the leader of the conservative movement in America today? Can you see the UC, with his tats and brown skin, taking his place one day? He swallows the conservative garbage like it's his job. Why can't he lead the movement?
  • me is cool
    with a name like Yanni Woland, you must be a "grumpy old white man", no?
  • Yanni Woland
    "The point is that we're there now and we're winning."

    How is it possible to win the war in Iraq with only 30,000 more troops? How is it possible to win the war in Iraq period?

    We are fighting an ideology, not a nation. Continued fighting only exacerbates the problem. Winning or not, this does not change the fact that we should have never gone there in the first place.

    Finally, what has this war done for our country? Put us in debt? I should think that in a time when China is rapidly on the rise (and set to have an economy twice the size of ours by mid-century), and is putting more engineers and scientists on the street per yer than we are, that money wasted on an entirely pointless war would be better spent on our failing education system.

    Back on topic, I'm a republican at heart. But the party has been hijacked; the party that freed the slaves has been hijacked by racists (O'Reilly, Coulter, and others), corporate bigots, and most of all, grumpy old white men.
  • Reaper
    David:
    The major networks (FOX News excluded) & newspapers have been vastly favoring Obama with airtime, and they've been vastly under-critical of his campaign. Being hammered hardly characterizes it.

    Your viewpoint on Iraq is plenty valid -- I almost agree with it myself. The point is that we're there now and we're winning. Do you hear about that? Not from "The Big Three." In fact, their coverage pretty closely correlates to the number of deaths in Iraq. To underscore this, now that Afghanistan is seeing MORE deaths than Iraq (due to a decrease in Iraq, not an increase in Afghanistan), suddenly it's on the radar again. You'd hardly know we were in Afghanistan in the intervening years while things were quiet. Don't pull that "death sells" crap, either. It may have some merit, but it is still utterly malicious that our success goes almost completely unreported.

    Simonesdad, there's a difference between being required to maintain decorum and being a sexist/racist. Looking presentable in professional situations lends credibility, which is likely why Alden dresses up for professional occasions. I'm sorry if you disagree with the stated and agreed upon policies of every establishment in the world, but that's the way the it is. Besides, there are plenty of non-white-men in the conservative fold. In fact, Michelle Malkin and Laura Ingram often fill in for the Alpha Grumpy-Old-White-Man, Bill O'Reilly. But he's not yielding the reins. He's only giving them the reins and letting them do as they wish. That's completely different.
  • David W. Walters
    Reaper,
    You wrote: "Hey David, you know the old school media -- ABC, CNN, NBC, (etc), newspapers -- are clearly in the tank for Obama, right? In fact, the "new school" media -- FOX News and the internet -- are pretty evenly split."
    Clearly, ALL the TV news media (including Fox) has been hammering away at Obama.......to get him to admit that the surge has worked.
    Actually my view has been that we have been foolish to go into Iraq. Not one of our brave sons&daughters lost in that sad place was worth the lives of Saddam&his dead sons. But then i don't mistake supporting the troops with supporting the views of neo-cons&the military-industrial complex.
    I support the soldiers of my old unit....82nd Abn. and all the other soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen that are trapped in constant redeployments, and their families, who rarely see them.
  • simonesdad2008
    Look, you have a whole medium (talk radio) and a whole network (Fox) to put whoever you want on 24/7. If I didn't know better, UC, I would say you are advocating Affirmative Action for your pundits. Horrors! Conservative whites aren't giving up the reigns to anyone accept other conservative whites anytime soon. Welcome to America. Let me show you around. You've got AldenxOhhh "covering up" and going to the hair salon and buying Ralph Lauren so that she can be in your little club. People are people. We have flaws and individual traits that don't fall squarely into one camp or another. The difference is that so-called liberals have always fought for inclusion. Would you say the abolitionists of their time would be considered liberal or conservative by today's standards? Think about that one for a minute.
  • AldenxOhhh
    I've worked for local campaigns and not had that problem- they even let me canvass and talk directly to voters, and I didn't have to put a bag over my head once! All my tattoos cover easily, pink comes out of hair in one quick trip to a salon and I look positively charming in sundresses and pastel sweaters. I bet if you met me you'd never guess I had major ink hiding under that Ralph Lauren (because let's face it, my mom doesn't even shop at Talbot's anymore). It's easy to put on a pretty dress and smile, much easier than hearing someone say you're "acting white" because you choose not to vote Obama. My appearance is based on choices I've made to cultivate an image, and believe me, I understand what I'm doing. Yes, my McCain-wear might look ironic, but it invites people who would otherwise never talk to me to make a judgment based on my looks, determine that I'm "witty and sarcastic", and start a conversation with me. The message is a little easier to swallow when it's coming from someone who looks a lot like you and your friends instead of coming from the kid you beat up in high school because he looked like an elitist jerk then and still looks like one now.

    You, and the rest of the imaginary party, might not want youth support based on judgements you've passed on them, but who do you think makes all those youtube videos? Who scans Wikipedia pages to make sure the writes aren't getting away with obvious bias? Who came up with the social networking feature on McCain's campaign page? Who makes all the facebook applications I've got in my profile? The party is starting to realize that just because you raised Tucker and Muffy in a conservative household doesn't mean they're going to grow up to think like you do. They need to be shown it's still cool to vote values.

    And for the record, look at XXXchurch (which is anti-porn), Relevant magazine (which looks just like Spin or Blender but is actually a Christian magazine), pastor Rob Bell of the Mars Hill megachurch, or the Acquire the Fire rallies- the new Christian movement looks an awful lot more like me than it does Jenna Bush. Even Jesus knows tattoos are cool these days.
  • Yanni Woland
    "The reality is that there are a lot of Black, Asian and Hispanic conservatives today but no one ever talks about them; they are rarely interviewed or featured on the news. It’s about marketing, positioning and changing the perceptions of Americans that all conservatives and Republicans we see in the media are not grumpy old white men. Here are a few that I think are worth mentioning."
    There are many? Where? In congress? Give me a break.

    The neocons who own (owned, I should say) the party are grumpy old white men. The corporate interest which still owns the party (i.e. the same interest that is pressuring the public to foolishly lift the ban on off-shore drilling, or to continue to deregulate our businesses to disastrous effect) consists of well, pretty much grumpy old white men.

    The constituents of the party are largely white males. There isn't much getting around this fact, and naming just a few public figures who are not white does not in any way "prove" that the Republican party is as diverse racially as the Democratic part. It might fool some thick-headed individuals, but nobody who checks facts and thinks critically.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    For AldenxOhhh. I am not a big fan of tattoos. BUT, many a moon ago I had long hair, love heavy metal/rock 'n roll, and when I told people that I am a conservative and-horrors!-a Republican, I got the same crap. The left loves to stereotype. And I am certain that you get all your crap from lefties. That is the difference between conservative Republicans and socialist Democrats. They talk a good game about not stereotyping and loving everyone. But get them alone and they will be the MOST judgemental, vicious people you will ever meet! Good luck on the bake sale!
  • Reaper
    simonesdad, so you've tried to go to an RNC convention I take it? No? Then how do you know? Any testimonials? Evidence?

    Hey David, you know the old school media -- ABC, CNN, NBC, (etc), newspapers -- are clearly in the tank for Obama, right? In fact, the "new school" media -- FOX News and the internet -- are pretty evenly split. So, I'd actually be encouraged if people were beginning to ween themselves from the "old school" media outlets and began to think for themselves. Then they might actually hear something about McCain, rather than having Obama coverage 24/7.

    You're right that the issue isn't whether the surge worked; it was only an issue up until we started seeing it worked. Since we can't have anything the right does being successful, it's not the issue any more. Now it's being cost effective. If we should address that, it'll move onto something else. I'd have more respect for your position if you just maintained that we shouldn't be there and you don't care WHAT happens in Iraq, you want us out. As it is now, you're pretending to want success but complaining about everything you can find in regards to Iraq.

    By the by, conservatives aren't draining our finances; the Democrats and Republicans Congresses are spending like crazy. As you may or may not know, conservative views aren't very well represented in either party. We used to align with Republicans on fiscal non-dumbassery, but they've apparently shifted their position on that.
  • David W. Walters
    JarrodM,
    you missed the point......for if you had you'd have actually made sense in your rebuttal. I sleep good at night, because I see a change in peoples attitudes. They are beginning to think for themselves instead of depending on"old school" media to spoon feed them talking points which you seem to lap up.
    The issue now isn't "weather the surge worked", but why it was necessary in the first place and how it it damaging our military ability to react to REAL threats in a cost effective manner. The issue isn't tax and spend liberals, but the depletion of our treasury by so-called conservatives........there is time yet, JarrodM for you to engage the brain, and jump up on the train!
  • simonesdad2008
    AldenxOhhh,

    Good for you and your tattoos but I have news for you. If you arrived at RNC headquarters they would throw you in a room with the Log Cabiners. That's not commentary on your sexuality. I'm saying that in the ultra competitive world of national politics the republicans want and need your vote even if they abhor your very existence. The conservative image of a buttoned up tight ass has been carefully cultivated over the years. They want your vote but they want you out of sight in the meantime. And about that T-shirt, I suspect given your appearance, a McCain T-shirt would look sarcastic on you. Sort of like Johnny Rotten wearing a T-shirt with the Queen on it. I suspect your support for McCain is in line with the rest of your life which seems to be about doing the unexpected or going against convention. If you actually kept company with conservatives they would have you in a Talbots faster than you can say doubleknit. I have more respect for you and your choice than the rest of these fake conservatives on here. Don't be surprised when they take your cupcake money but tell you to seek Jesus.
  • Guest
    @AldenxOhhh

    great comment. Let me know if you'd like to write an article for Urban. I have tattoos as well...woo hoo.
  • AldenxOhhh
    I'm a young, conservative girl with tattoos, piercings and pink hair, which basically makes me not at all what anyone thinks of when they think "conservative". Most of the political conversations I have with my peers end up being "oh, come on! You have TATTOOS! How can you possibly support this b.s.?", as if having a tattoo says anything greater about me than I do not plan on having a job that pays well (ha ha).

    This is problematic because if political conversations are being boiled down to "you look like x so therefore you should obviously vote for candidate y" for me, I can only imagine the pressures someone my age who happens to be ethnic who doesn't support Obama must be feeling. He's "their" candidate so they have to vote for him, right? An Obama t-shirt is as much a hip-hop fashion staple right now as vintage Nikes. Maybe the conservative party does appear a little overtly white and privileged, but when popular rap artist are wearing "vote or die" t-shirts on stage I think it presents an equally closed-minded message to ethnic youth. Neither one of the major parties are doing a very good job of breaking out of stereotypes right now, and that suits Obama just fine.

    If we want to win in November we're going to have to start making our image a little more "sexy'. I, for one, am having a cupcake bake sale to support McCain. The democrats don't own the cool t-shirt market. If one of you photoshop-ers makes a good McCain design (that doesn't look like the yard sign in front of my parents house stapled onto a t-shirt, for cryin' out loud) I promise you I will buy and wear it. We do need better talking heads. Someone get Meghan McCain in a sexy dress ASAP...
  • Jim Wilkins
    Talked with a young man today - a university student. A conservative one. As usual he was complaining about the other students and faculty, who were unfailingly liberal. " Every time they state something and I reply by stating facts which prove them wrong they start to yell.". It occurred to me that we Conservatives are going about it all wrong. We try to convince people with facts but they are operating on emotion. I think we should try a different tack: I think we should have some questions which make people think. For instance: When someone complains about the war in Iraq or Afganistan we should ask them who they think we are at war with. We are not at war with either Iraq, Afganistan, or Iran. The President declared a War On Terror. That is what we are doing in the mid-east.

    Everyone I ask that question of wonders why no one has asked it before. I suspect that the Conservatives as a group can come up with a whole bunch of questions like this which will make emoting people actually think for a change. We will not succeed with them all. Probably not even with a majority. And it will require hard work, repetition, and persistence. But it will be more effective than what we are doing now. Especially with young people who are still trying to identify themselves.
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    PLEASEHELP, here is a little something for you. I do not belong to a political party because of what it offers and or what it can do for me. If I may paraphrase President John F. Kennedy, it is not about what a country (or in in this case a political party) can do for me. It is what I can do for it. You see, a lot of Americans do not seek to have a government do anything for them. Many of us want to do what we want, within reasonable limits. That is what makes a conservative. You, PLEASEHELP, sound like a freeloader. One that does not mind the "goodies" that government will offer on the backs of others.
  • pleasehelp
    Why do you (meaning anyone) support the Republican party? What does this "party" offer you? What does this "party" do for you?
  • JarrodM
    heathenhater you need to go back to school and get an education.

    Freedom does not = anarchy. Even a free society has to have rules and regulations. Conservatism stands for small Government, and embracing a moralistic society. Not a screw you I will do anything I want attitude.

    You asked once what it means to be more seassoned, or something like that. Understanding the true concept of these political parties would be a good start.

    Librals = Big Government, no social morals (Meaning freedom to do what ever you want, as long as it is OK with them.

    Libratarians = Small Government and you can do what ever you want no matter how much it is rotting our society.

    Concervatives believe in limited Government, high moral standards (It is not OK to be a phedifial, in fact that should be sent to face God in the shortest path possible), and true conservatives know that sometimes you have to get your hands dirty, and a bit bloody, to protect your freedoms. Where cooks like Ron-Paul believe in issolationism. Let's just say screw the rest of the world, and hide in our own little bubble.

    Try this for once, think of something that truly matter to you, somthing that you would be willing to die for. Hold on to that thought, and that feeling. Now understand, that true conservatives, would much rather give up their own lives, so that their loved ones, and the rest of society can continue living on in a free country.
  • Guest
    @heathenhater

    Where did I say this? show me ... I probably said he was socially liberal, not fiscal.
  • heathenhater
    you know what i think? I think y'all should stop calling yourselves conservatives. The republican party is not conservative. The libertarian party is conservative. Sure, the Republicans care about our economic liberties, but or social and personal liberties??? throw them out of the window in the name of the war on terror!!!! The democrats care more about these personal liberties, but all in all, libertarians are the true beacons of freedom in this country.

    And UC, i remember you calling ron paul a liberal. LOL ROFL LOL!!! you need to learn something if you think that is true...... come on man
  • JarrodM
    LOL out David Walters, talk about coming way out from left field with that one. How do you sleep at night with the BS that you are feeding everyone. Just because the people that Barack has energized into eating his crap, and your crap, does not make the mature or actually thinking about the issues.

    In fact, since it is a proven fact that all Barack has to do is stand up and talk about making change, for change sake so that the people will feel the power of change, and never truly define his change policy, I would have to say that the exact opposite is going on.

    Just because a person buys into a false concept, does not make the person smart, no matter how much you agree with them. Case in point Global warming, has now been reclassified as Global Change because oh that’s right the evidence could not stand up to the real world. Just like Barrack will never be able to stand up to the real world. This is the same guy that agreed with McCain to do these town hall debates, until one if his many handlers reminded him that he sucks when he is not scripted.

    Any way enough with you, I’m tired of arguing over your dribble. Go find a communist site so you can fell more at home comrade.

    UC you are right that the face of Conservatism is much whiter then it should be. Your also right that the conservative base is not as white as many would want the rest of the world to believe it is. But I don’t know if you can blame it all on the old white guys that run the networks and what ever. I think that it is deeper then that, much more sinister then that. Look at probably the two most current and famous Black Liberals. Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton. These two goons and yes I call them goons, because if you are black and not Liberal they would just assume you did not exist. I think that in our society where community is so much more important for young blacks, then it might be for young whites, it is hard to go over to the other side. And even when you have gone over to the other side, it is not something that you get up and preach about. Hell look at what Jesse Jackson said about Barrack, finally a black leader other then Bill Cosby demanded that young black males should be accountable for themselves, and Jesse wants the man dead.

    I know a lot of great young black men that are conservatives, I served with them in the military, and I serve with them in the Fire Department, and they don’t care that it is these white men more then black men that are representing the conservative party. Just like I believe a large majority of young white conservative men could care less about the color of skin. It is Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton that keep racism alive these days. That does not mean that there are still not some bigots out there and they should be shunned for it, but we are a land of the free, and a person is entitled to their feeling right, wrong or in different. But the way that Al, and Jesse use and abuse the black community to control their power base is down right wrong, and I know in my heart that when these two get to heaven God is not going to see them as men of God.
  • David W. Walters
    UC,
    As important as "image" is and has been in U.S. politics, perhaps you are right to point out this fresh "new" face of conservatism. But it seems to me that the electorate is finally maturing and actually thinking about issues. This bodes ill for conservatism, since people are beginning to ask questions like.....
    "Is trickle down economics really working?"
    "Who is benefiting from deregulation of banking?"
    "Why do we even need a surge in Iraq, in the first place?"
  • Mark J. Goluskin
    It is a good post. And, you are right, there is a problem about what our party often puts on as the face of the GOP. But, a lot of the people that you mentioned ARE becoming well known. Michael Steele is going to be a force within the Republican party for some time. Michelle Malkin is all over the place on radio, television and the internet. And, Gov. Jindal won in LOUISIANA of all places. He may very well be the candidate in 2016. I think that the real problem is that in a conservative party, we do not have quotas like the Democrats. We do not get to gerrymander that many elected districts to get black and or hispanic or any other kind of minority group like the Dems do. Also, we believe as conservatives and as Republicans in merit. That is why it is taking a long time to break the "boring, grumpy old white men" syndrome. BTW, please get rid of the photo of Michael Savage! He is an embarassement to conservatives and Republicans!
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