A Walk in the woods with Barrack

August 16th, 2008 Urban Conservative

This was post was contributed by ML Smith.

Obama’s attempt to win this thing on platitudes alone will get him only so far. His speech writers need to step up their game, become more creative and less dependant on inspirational boilerplate. Obama’s speeches can effectively circumvent the issues with creative dialogue that exploits human nature at its most basic level. That requires an understanding of the fact that before people even begin to think about solutions to problems, which involves worry and effort, their initial thought is that the problem will somehow go away. This fundamental aspect of human nature enables us to ignore environmental issues, avoid visits to the doctor and leave credit card bills unopened.

If I wrote Barrack’s next speech, it would be something like this:

Friends, supporters and voters, it is good to see you here. As you know, I have been criticized by Senator Clinton and others who say that I am too heavy on platitudes and too light on substance. They say I do not have a real plan or platform. Well, let me tell you, they could not be more correct. The truth is, I have no plan to solve the problems of this country. I firmly believe our problems will go away, just like those twenty-four hour viruses we have all suffered at one time or another. A good night’s sleep is all that is needed.

America needs nothing more than time. You know, they say time heals all wounds, and that is so true. People need to stop tinkering with symptoms of a greater problem, a problem I must say I do not understand. I look at our wonderful country and I think of it as an automobile that is bucking and stalling. Probably, something has gotten stuck in the fuel line, and it will work its way out. There is no need to start taking things apart. The same holds true for America. The problems will work themselves out.

I want the people of this nation to step back from the weight of all of these problems, and let the light shine in. I want all of you to take a walk in the woods with me, and I am confident that when we emerge, our problems will seem much smaller.

When he was compiling the dictionary of the English language, Webster himself was faced with a great dilemma. There were more words than he could possibly think of. He did exactly what I would do in such circumstances. Nothing. He walked away from the big book, with the knowledge that new words would simply evolve on their own. Today, we have words like ‘aks,’ ’supposebly’ and even ‘nucular,’ words that Webster could never have imagined.

America is like a big dictionary – incomplete, unfinished and still evolving. So I say to you, do not worry about problems, because solutions will come just like new words do.

Mrs. Clinton wants you to work with her to fix the problems of our country. That, my friends, sounds like an awful lot of work. All I want, on the other hand, is for you to take a walk with me in the woods. Do not fear the darkness – we will find our way out because at the edge of every forest there is a condominium that will light the way. So take this walk with me. Together, we will share the spectacular glory of nature, run our hands across the rough bark of trees that have grown according to God’s plan, not the plan of Senator Clinton, a woman too obsessed with issues to appreciate the bark of a tree, or to marvel as a badger makes a home for his family.

We are all like that badger, seeking a haven from the trials of everyday life. And we will find that haven together, while my adversary, Mrs. Clinton, scurries like a rat looking for that elusive piece of cheese that represents a cure to all of the world’s ills. You can trust me when I say there is no piece of cheese big enough to satisfy her ravenous appetite for solutions to problems that do not exist. I believe that America is locked in an obsession with problems and an addictive need for solutions. Let me be your leader and I will deliver you from that bondage. Things will get better if I become president because I will bring change. Not nickels and dimes, but new ideas that will shed light where there has been only darkness. Yes, America, take this walk me.

Together, we will rediscover the greatness of this wondrous nation of ours.

That is the kind of speech that fits Obama perfectly. Instead of beating around the bush of his own ignorance, he can say with pride what we all know, that he does not have a clue what he will do in the White House. Hopefully, someone else will get there before he returns from his naturewalk.

Rating: 2.8/5 (34 votes cast)

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  • me is cool
    this post is lame. this blog is lame. conservatives are lame.

    Please join the real world. We are waiting for you to grow.
  • Chris
    "this post is lame. this blog is lame. conservatives are lame.
    Please join the real world. We are waiting for you to grow."

    Care to actually discuss the article or are you going to rant off like a mindless liberal about how anyone with a different political opinion is inferior? Sorry, but unless you can actually see Obama for who he is, you're just a mindless sheep like the rest of them.
  • Reaper
    Very substantiative refutation of the arguments presented, poster #1, but alas, I must disagree.  In fact, I would argue that you, my friend, are the one who is lame, for finding that you cannot argue against the points presented and, in the infinite security of anonymity, resorted to petty name calling and gross generalizations of a majority of Americans.
  • toe
    typical post by a typical critic of obama.  if "ML Smith" had, in fact watched any of the demoratic debates in the primary, listened completely to any of obama's responses, compared them with other democratic candidates, our fictitious "ML Smith" would feel as foolish as he/she looks writing this rubbish.  it does not take a lot of ability to wander over to obama's website and learn what position obama has on any number of issues.  some people just take pride in being ignorant i guess.
  • Chris
    "typical post by a typical critic of obama.  if "ML Smith" had, in fact watched any of the demoratic debates in the primary, listened completely to any of obama's responses, compared them with other democratic candidates, our fictitious "ML Smith" would feel as foolish as he/she looks writing this rubbish.  it does not take a lot of ability to wander over to obama's website and learn what position obama has on any number of issues.  some people just take pride in being ignorant i guess. "

    Go to his website? Please, that site just gives little tidbits of information without a detailed plan on how he's going to put those actions into place. Plus, he's flip-flopped on so many issues that whatever he says is usually irrelevant a few months later. For example, fast tracking alternative energies? You know what that really means? Lots of subsidies to corporations who don't need them and increased government regulation. Obama's entire campaign is just one big version of "the government will handle everything". Considering how much liberals bash Bush, I'm rather surprised they would engage in the same government expansion.
  • toe
    since you, chris, are far too lazy or inept to read beyond headlines, here are a few highlights of the extensive and comprehensive energy plan:

    Provide short”term relief to American families facing pain at the pump

    • Help create five million new jobs by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future.
    • Within 10 years save more oil than we currently import from the Middle East and Venezuela combined
    • Put 1 million Plug”In Hybrid cars – cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon – on the road by 2015, cars that we will work to make sure are built here in America
    • Ensure 10 percent of our electricity comes from renewable sources by 2012, and 25 percent by 2025
    • Implement an economy”wide cap”and”trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050

    for anyone actually looking to be informed (which would not include "chris"):
  • Chris
    haha you make me laugh toe. Obviously you need take or re-take a macroeconomics course.

    "Help create five million new jobs by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future."

    & where's that money going to come from? $150 billion doesn't just grow on trees. So how is he going to get that money? Oh, I know, let's raise taxes and tariffs! Therefore, any economic growth that was created just got creamed with taxes because Obama doesn't like the big bad corporations.

    "Within 10 years save more oil than we currently import from the Middle East and Venezuela combined"

    Yeah, I can pull numbers out of my arse too. Hmm, I think Jesus is also going to come back sometime in the next few years. Unless he has the data and the economists to back him up, I don't believe it.

    "Put 1 million Plug”In Hybrid cars – cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon – on the road by 2015, cars that we will work to make sure are built here in America"

    Again, how is he going to pay for this? If he thinks he can fix everything by subsidizing everything then he's REALLY clueless on the economy. You'd think liberals have never heard of a free market.

    "Ensure 10 percent of our electricity comes from renewable sources by 2012, and 25 percent by 2025"

    Oh great, more government mandates. What counts as renewable? Is it just solar and wind or does he call for nuclear power as well? I can't tell, Obama flip-flopped on nuclear.

    "Implement an economy”wide cap”and”trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050"

    Cap-and-trade? Are you freaking serious? Do you realize how much bureaucratic overhead that will cost us along with INCREASING energy prices?

    Seriously, take a macroeconomics class. Now. If you don't want to or can't at least read Hidden Order: The Economics of Everyday Life, which will give you a basic foundation for economic theory.
  • jason
    Toe - you put too much faith in a politician.  Just because his web site says something, doesn't make it true. If he does get elected, please take note of everything he said he was going to do; and compare it to everything he actually does.  He's a damn politician for christ's sake.  He tells people wat they want to hear in order to get elected.  They ALL do it; both Repubs and Dems.

    I can't believe some of you people.
  • marlena rodrigues

    excellent points.  LOL @ money growing on trees.  I wish.
  • toe
    first you say he has no plan-proven wrong .
    then you say nothing is specified...wrong again, chris.
    when you get your complaints in order...and find how obama has stated how these proposals would be funded  (it's all there)...you get back to me.
  • ML Smith
    To: Chris, Toe and Me is Cool
    Thank you. It is always nice to know that there are people who feel strongly about something! I wonder, though...why is that when people disagree, they resort to "gutter-speak?" Assuming my blog was totally off-base, why would anyone pour such vitriolic energy into their attacks? When I see a dumpster overflowing with garbage, I don't start screaming at it. I walk away.
    Anyway, I'm glad to see that I can still get some blood boiling.
    Gratefully yours,
    ML Smith
  • ML Smith
    To: Chris
    You seem to be the only one with a real "mushy blob" within your cranial cavity.
    It is nice to see that there are still a few people that think these days.
    I was especially imressed by "Me is Cool"s remarks. 'Yo, Cool, if you're so sick of these conservative blogs, what the heck are you doing here? Why don't you just go bowling, or play some miniature golf? I think you need to give that overworked brain of yours a rest.
    ML Smith ("I 'aint Cool.")
  • ML Smith
    To: Toe
    Re: #4

    I still think you need a new pair of clippers for that "toe" of yours, but to respond to your argument, I have wandered over to Obama's website far too many times. Mr. Obama is quite the political scoundrel...cluttering his websites with pie-in-the-sky plans for a "better" America. He is no different than any of the candidates when you get to the bottom of it all. 

    Truthfully, I don't care what they say. I go by the old proverb, "What have you done lately?" Nothing? Well, that puts him dead smack where all of them are...nowhere. In the end, whoever winds up in the Oval Office will do as they are told. 

    Only in American politics can fairy tale characters actually exist. We have both goblins and demons. The goblins are the faceless industrialists who roam the corridors with briefcases filled with cash. The demons...well, they are always someplace else, like Iraq or Afghanistan, wreaking havoc and destruction wherever they go. The strange thing is...we always seem to find out that the goblins have been doing business with the demons.

    Does Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama have a plan to address that? No. He wouldn't dare mess with the demons, who kill our boys with weapons sold to them by the goblins! 

    Yes, Obama will do as he is told. The question is...who will be doing the telling? 

    ML Smith
  • toe
    yes, i agree with the goblins and demons point- but, does one throw their hands in the air and give in?  does one KNOWINGLY vote for someone who will join in this activity?
    america has been sold a bill of goods for the past 7+ years and only now some of this is coming forth.  anyone who thinks obama OR mc cain is the complete answer to the fix-all has not been awake for the past 55 years-
    to address the many wrongs in washington has to come from having an independent press, transparency in government, an informed electorate, the end of "no-bid contracts",  having available,  ALWAYS , the use of a special prosecutor , to name a few.  oversight is absolutely necessary but this cannot be done when the justice department head refuses to even look or act.
    much damage has been done during this presidency- not just in terms of the corruption at the highest levels, but in terms of our face as a nation and how we are seen around the world.  america's people are a giving and caring lot- when any disaster strikes - anywhere in the world, america is among the first to lend a hand- not for any other reason than because it's the right thing to do. 
    we have been raised to understand the importance of leading by example.  we have been raised to celebrate our diversity while rejoicing that we are a united free people.  one people: americans. 

    the fact that obama puts a face on these ideals that we were raised to believe in is the very reason that he has gained the admiration that you see.  to call those that believe in these ideals that we all hold as americans "sheep" and "obamaniacs" and "messiah followers" etc...to suggest that someone who voices these ideals, hopes, and the american dream is somehow misguided is a slap in the face to those of us who want to make the necessary steps to be, once again, the america that we grew up believing in.
  • ML Smith
    Toe #14

    From ML

    That one didn't even sound like you! I could not agree more. You have literally "hit the nail on the head."
    I am not arguing with you regarding your beliefs - they are the same as mine. There is only one point that separates us, and I will mention it, but I hope you do not take offense because I am beginning to understand and respect where you are coming from.
    The difference is this: Candidates, Obama included, say whatever they are advised to say in order to get themselves into the Oval Office. Label me a skeptic of the highest order if you wish, but I do not believe a word of his rhetoric. Again, I ask, would you feel confortable with Obama as President in a situation like the Cuban Missile Crisis?
    I see Obama hiding underneath his desk, and believe me, Monica Lewinsky is not there with him.

    ML Smith
  • ML Smith
    ML to Toe, re: #14

    Toe! Finally, I found my way back...was caught in a net freeze and had to shut the monster down. Now that I am back, let me say that I had the wrong impression about you. Sorry. I think I said some things that I now regret. Based on your last blog, it seems to me that we are both on the same page. Perhaps we are not on the same paragraph, but who cares? I am beginning to understand and respect your POV.

    If we differ at all, it is this: I do not believe that Obama is significantly different than any other candidate dating back to the days of Russian "shoe banging" and the "Hotter than Cold" war with Russia. I hope I am wrong.

    Tell me, would you feel safe with Obama in office during a standoff like the Cuban Missile Crisis? I would not. Where do you think you would find him in such circumstances?

    Under his desk?
    Without Monica to hold his...hand?

    ML Smith
  • WadeHM
    Something that Obama promises he will do that I know he will do as he says. Less protection for babies born alive during abortion attempts. According to Obama, they are still not human and therefore not protected.

    Now there is change we can believe in.
  • ML Smith
    I am going to try this again, hoping that I can get through to you, Toe. 

    First, let me apologize. I read you wrong. This is an unfortunate side-effect caused by excessive thinking, which is not my strongpoint. I think that I am beginning to understand and respect your POV. If we differ on anything, it is this:

    Where will Obama be (assuming he gets elected) in a situation similar to something like the Cuban Missile Crisis?

    1. Out playing golf with Snoop Dog?
    2. At his desk, writing letters to all the people who didn't vote for him but somehow got counted incorrectly in his favor? (most of them with South Florida addresses)
    3. Under his desk...alone.

    Honestly, would you feel comfortable with this man in office under such circumstances? I wouldn't...no matter who the Pres. turns out to be.

  • ML Smith
    Okay, I think I figured it out, but we shall see, as I make my fourth attempt to respond to Toe.

    I think that I underestimated your knowledge and misinterpreted your point of view. Sorry. After reading your last blog, it seems to me that we are basically on the same page, though perhaps we are not on the same paragraph. (figuratively speaking)

    I am beginning to understand and respect your point of view. If we differ, it is on this alone:

    Where do you think Obama will be in a situation like the Cuban Missile Crisis? I see him under his desk...alone.

    Honestly, Toe, would you feel safe with Obama or anyone else in such circumstances?    

    Wade, exactly what kind of change are you referring to? Loose, like pennies, nickels, dimes, etc? Listen, if he really said that, I feel sorry for him. I have always been suspicious of his political motives, but this throws a new light on him - we may be dealing with a sociopath. A baby born alive is as human as I am. If all of this is true, we are in great danger. I am not comfortable with someone who can even "think" of something like that. Please, tell us where you found that.
  • ML Smith
    Toe...I agree completely with everything you said in your last post. The ideals that Obama espouses are the very same ideals upon which this country was founded. I am sorry that  misinterpreted your previous blogs, but I am beginning to understand and respect your beliefs and values. Actually, you are the first person here to remind us that the liberties we once cherised have been trashed by the current administration. Thank you for that! 

    My write-up on Obama stems from a historical perpective that I am unable to ignore. Since JFK, we have not had a leader in the Oval Office. We have had our share of imposters, and one sociopath thrown in for good measure, thanks to the folks in South Florida who "made a mistake." Essentially, we have been given a silver lined serving dish full of mediocrity to choose from every four years.

    It sounds as if you are saying "we really don't have much to choose from, so we might as well go with the lesser of two evils." It makes sense, but it does nothing to alter the perception held by our two-party system that we are fools who will take whatever we are given. Truth be told, we deserve to be perceived that way, because we have never challenged the system - one that once worked because it was "for the people" and created by "the people." That is no longer the case. The scary part is that this trend of mediocrity will continue, ad infinitum...no, I am wrong about that; it won't go on forever. As a nation comprised by a vast majority of human beings, we are...collectively, like a computer generated file that has not been saved. Consequently, we are subject to deletion at any time. 

    All it will take is one click, made at the wrong time and the wrong place...
    Some writer from another planet will visit the barren, burned out remains of this once magnificently beautiful planet, and he will write a story, entitled "The Click That Turned Into a Flash."

    In "The Natural," the catch-phrase was "If you build it, they will come." Given our present direction, the new catch-phrase should be, "If you have it, you will use it." How long, I ask, can you wait before you use your refrigerator? Snow-blower? Stereo? Car? Screwdiver? Obviously, the only reason you have them is to use them. A 50 megaton H-Bomb costs a lot of money these days. Who would be stupid enough to spend that kind of money on something they will never use?

    I fear that time is running short. We need a leader who doesn't answer to the goblins; a leader courageous enough to break free from the shackles of our "industrial dictatorship" and change the status quo.

    ML Smith
  • toe
    wade, there are no snappy answers to complex questions.  my suggestions to you, wade, are as follows:  
    1) if you are opposed to abortion- don't have one.
    2) if you are male and opposed to abortion- don't create an unwanted pregnancy.
    3) if you are male and  opposed to abortion and fight tooth and nail against all efforts to eliminate unwanted pregnancies you are not part of the solution.
    4) if you opposed abortion on religious grounds, please feel free to have your opinion.  please understand that all others do not share your same religious dogma, however right you feel you are... to impose your religious beliefs upon everyone via legislation will not do... for certainly you do realize that this is unconstitutional.
  • Reaper
    The abortion debate is simple.  Life begins at conception.  Period.  If you want to allow murder of an innocent and defenseless life to ensure a better future for a mother, then just SAY SO.  Toe, your suggestions apply to gay marriage.  What two consenting adults do with their lives is their business.  But to try to apply that same logic to a life that cannot yet consent to anything is malicious, fallacious, and downright stupid. 

    It's tantamount to pro capital punishment people arguing that murderers aren't really alive anymore; they're dead inside, so killing them is not murder.  Most of us put our beliefs on our sleeves: we don't want someone capable of taking another life to continue living, and we can see no reason to end a life that has done nothing to endanger or end the life of another.
  • Ml Smith
    This isn't about abortion. I do not know why this debate continues. A baby born alive is a living, human. To suggest that it should be killed is sheer insanity.

    Imagine for a moment, that you were scheduled to be aborted, but you were born before the abortion was completed. Thirty years later, your biological mother decides that she didn't want you to begin with. Can she file a deposition requiring your immediate extermination? Might it be approved by the courts?

    Toe, there is something about your use of the word "solution" that scares me. Add the word "Final" and you are talking "Fuhrer Speak." I don't think for a minute that this is what is on your mind, but there is some precedent governing the murder of a live child. It has nothing at all in common with abortion. Perhaps the two issues should be separated. That might eliminate some of the pathological rhetoric I am seeing.

    Good night.

  • ML Smith
    ML Smith

    Am I here? This is a question I must ask every day, because I never know when I will be lucky enough to make it to the page. Funny, all of my problems begin with a "B" - Browser, Barrack, Bernice (the crazy woman that lives next door) bunion, (the one on my left toe) no, not you, Toe, and bomb, as in "What is Barrack going to do when Iran announces they have twelve of them and they plan to use them. 

    I know what McCain will do, and I certainly don't want him in the White House, especially if his VP is Cheney, who should be in the "Big House."

    This is going to be one fiasco of an election, since nobody really knows anything about these idiots running for office...most people don't even know how the votes are going to be counted, if they are counted at all.

    Why don't we just simplify things and forget the elections. People have been clamoring for Alfred E. Neuman for fifty years now. Why don't we give the kid a chance? So what if he has a bad case of acne and looks like a moron? At least he has a comprehensible platform: bomb everybody right away and add an extra day to the week.

    The extra day will generate trillions of dollars in additional tax revenues - heck, we should have the national debt paid off in about 400 years! Can anybody come up with a name for this extra day, which will extend the year to 416 days? Oh! I almost forgot. Alfred has a few more ideas that will definitely bolster the economy and beef-up the infrastructure.

    1. An "Air Tax" - this should have been written into law years ago. People have been paying for every other natural resource, so why not air? Athletes, particularly marathon runners, will be surcharged, since they use much more air than anyone else. People with breathing disorders like asthma and emphysema should get a rebate, along with those who are pronounced clinically dead and come back to life. (this should be a one-time only rebate - people who die frequently just to evade the tax ought to be disqualified from any rebates)
    2. The fifth line of the eye chart will be changed, since 90 percent of the public already has it memorized - "abcidefg" - and more than 40 percent of that group is comprised of legally blind drivers who cheated on the vision test.
    3. Establishment of a National Administration for Acts of Blatant Stupidity. (NAABS) The act will enable NAABS to incarcerate people like Al Sharpton, Elliot Spitzer (whose pants come down faster than the Dow Jones on a bad day) and many others.

    I can't remember the rest, so I will get myself outta' here now. "What...me worry?"

    ML Smith
  • ML Smith
    Hello and Good Morning, Mr. Blog Administrator!

    From now on, I will put little effort into these blogs, since your system, which must have been programmed by Jack Kerouac, continues to spank the living daylights out of me.

    If you can ever get this straightened out for me, I will write in my list of platform ideas that none of the candidates have mentioned yet, including an Air Tax and the establishment of NAABS, the National Administration Against Blatant Acts of Stupidity. I will be the first person prosecuted, since I am stupid enough to think that this comment line will go through.
  • toe
    Wade, you really need to find multiple sources from all sides in order to disect truth from fiction. 
    Rush Limbaugh falsely claimed that Sen. Barack Obama:  "numerous times, three times in Illinois voted for legislation that would allow doctors and patients to murder babies who survived abortions and were out of the womb. Radical stuff. Three times he voted for this." Limbaugh misrepresented the legislation Obama voted against, a bill that amended the Illinois Abortion Law of 1975 and that opponents said was unnecessary, as the Illinois criminal code unequivocally prohibits killing children, and posed a threat to abortion rights. 
    Hannity has also parroted these misrepresentations as well as many other outright lies printed in Corsi's "book" ...a publication that has been solidly dicredited point by point over and over again.  If you had plans to invest in this, your money would be better spent to donate the money to your nearest "no-kill" animal shelter.
  • MReynolds
    "Do not fear the darkness – we will find our way out because at the edge of every forest there is a condominium that will light the way."

    Yes, a thousand times yes.
  • ML Smith
    In response to MR Reynolds: I am not entirely sure what you mean, but I do like the way you wrote it. (reminded me of something from a time long, long, ago)

    It is a good thing that you did not put an exclamation point at the end of that "Yes, yes" business, or someone might have misinterpreted your remark.
  • Dude
    ML SMith - i am not sure what the issue is when you post comments, but it's automatically deleting all your previous comments everytime you leave a new one. Try inputing a different email address when you leave a comment.
  • Harriet Blyleven
    To Mr. Smith

    From a woman's perspective, I must say that you are as genuine as a $3 bill. I am assuming ML are male initials, because you write like one - arrogant, opinionated and obviously chauvinistic. Who is he to say what should be done with an aborted but live baby. The decision should be entirely up to the biological mother. While the baby may still be alive, she has every right to have it euthanized.

    Mr. Smith, you are exactly the kind of man that we can do without. I notice that you have been having some problems with the blog site. Perhaps you should take that as a clue, i.e. you are no longer welcome to post your inane blogs, which do nothing but take up space.

    Apparently you think the election of our next president is a joke. Ha Ha. Alfred E. Neuman is a sexist pig! I would not vote for him even if you put a gub to my head. That's right, gub, as in "Abt naturally, I am carrying a gub." You and your filthy minded friend, Woody Allen, are two of the most arrogant male chauvinists I have ever encountered. Based on studies my friend Charol has researched, people like you are "agonists." I know that you both have limited vocabularies, (I was the best sepeller in my class every yaer) so I suggest you look the word up in a dictionary, if you know how to use one.

    As for you, you pimply faced simpleton, stay in your stupid magazine where you belong. I would not be surprised if you and your buddies (the good old boys that stink up rooms with their cigars) vote against Obama. You are not smart enough to recognize the man's brilliance. You probably think like that Smith character, who trashed Barrack in his poorly researched blog. Barrack is a man of substance. True, I do not know yet exactly what that substance is, but I will find out, just as he will eventually figure out what he will do in that big, white house on Pennsylvania Avenue.
  • ML Smith
    ML Smith

    It is good to be back...again. Kudos to Michael and Blog Administrator.

    There seems to be a great deal of controversy about this abortion business, which I do not understand - an "abortion" is not technically an abortion if the baby is still alive. The purpose of abortion is to kill the unborn fetus, which is not considered a "baby" if it is killed. Aborting a pregnancy is one thing; killing a living baby is another...entirely.

    Since abortions are normally the province of the biological carrier of the fetus, law allows the "non-mother" to decide. "Do I want this child, or do I want to abort?" I do not know if there are any laws on the books concerning the time window for such decisions to be made, but the question must be asked...and answered. In this, we have a dilemma of humongous proportions. 

    Think about this for a moment. Obama's position allows for "after the fact" abortions. In other words, a living creature commonly known as a baby can be euthanized, though I prefer to be blunt about it and say "killed." I could take it a step further and say "murdered" because that is exactly what it is.

    As far as the "time window" for such a decision is concerned, Mr. Obama needs to be more specific. If he isn't, the euthanization could theoretically be done at any time. If Mrs. Bglnowczysj goes in for an abortion and the baby is still alive, how much time does she have to decide what she wants to do with it? One minute? 15 minutes? An hour? A day, week, month...or can she wait for 30 years? I can see it now.

    A knock at your door. The "abortion police" have come for you. No need to bring your toothbrush - you won't need one where you are going. 
    "Mr. Bglnowczysj, your biological mother has decided that you are to be deleted immediately."

    If Wade is correct, I can only conclude that Obama has a serious thinking disorder. If a living baby is not considered "human," what is? I am neither pro or con on the abortion issue, only because I still haven't figured it all out yet. However, I am leaning away from pro-choice...there is something about killing "anything" that bothers me. Pro-choicers say that since the unborn child is part of the woman's body, she can decide whatever she wants. I say this: we still do not fully understand the reproductive process, and until we do, we have to presume that it is meant for one purpose only - to procreate. This has nothing to do with God, either, although "no-choice" advocates say that God is the force behind all reproductive processes and therefore, abortion is murder in his eyes. Some go as far as to say that abortion constitutes murder of God's child.
    Which God? There are so many of them - do they all feel the same way? And, for that matter, how can anyone know what the "Supreme Being" thinks or feels? I do believe there is a Supreme Entity of some kind, but I tend to go with Joan Osborne on this - God may be the slob sitting next to you on the bus, or the beetle climbing up your leg. I'd prefer the slob, simply because I don't like insects, and I cannot imagine going to church and praying to a beetle.
    ML Smith
  • ML Smith

    What is your problem? Here I am, minding my own business for the most part, and you come along with a suitcase full of vitriolic comments about Alfred E Neuman and his friend Woddy Allen. Is it my fault that Woody hangs out with Alf? Last I heard, Woody has no injunction preventing him from hanging out with a comic book character.  

    I am deeply offended by your remarks about Mr. Neuman. And not for nothing, "speller" is not "sepeller." 

    Harriet, I believe you have been seriously misled about Senator Obama. When the smoke clears and he is in the White House, which he is destined for because he has no "real" competition, you are going to feel like a fool. Obama is a sheep in sheep's clothing. His platform is loaded with spellbinding rhetoric and virtually devoid of substance. When he does take a stand, it is invariably ridiculous...like his "live" abortion position. When he takes office, he will do exactly what he is told - no less and no more. Let us all hope that he is not faced with a crisis larger than the ones we are challenged by now. I have said this before, and I will say it again for your benefit...he will be hiding under his desk, praying for Allah to deliver him from this mess he has gotten himself into. 

    ML Smith
  • ML Smith
    Yes, Reaper, I have not forgotten that. I have a box-full of Obama trash and I know more about him than I really want to. 

    I have a good friend who views Obama in the same light...this is a dangerous man. If given the opportunity...

    Well, you know what they say about America being attacked from within, right? 

    Here is how it's going to unfold:

    First, he will will push a new law through Congress requiring that all child-proof packaging be made adult-proof. That should be easy, since most everything is already. Last year, I nearly decapitated my thumb attempting to open a new CD. The damned thing clamped doen onmy thumb, requiring me to go to the ER with a CD attached to my thumb...not exactly "cool" if you know what I mean. They actually had a miniature jaws of life - the doctor seemed to be more worried about the CD than he was my thumb, but I knew something he didn't; CD's are virtually indestructable and could probably withstand a direct hit from an RPG. They ought to consider using them as body armor.

    "Hey, Joe, don't forget your CD Vest."

    Anyhow, he'll start small and gradually work his way up to the big stuff. Before you know it, America will be annexed to...take your pick, I'm not going to say it. 

    America has almost always been obsessed with threats from within, but no one has ever considered the possibility that Americans may soon be the real Threat From Within. Obama is nothing more than an Advance Man for the new circus in town- Ringling Brothers and Ahmed and Bailey Circus. Do you know which way Mecca is?

    ML Smith,
    signing off.
  • toe
    There are three main reasons why a vote from me for McCain would never happen.
    These are not based upon rumors, emails, books filled with lies, innuendo, misquotes, partial quotes taken out of context, fear mongering, misrepresentations, his color, his birthplace, his schooling, or his parents.
    Three reasons :
    1) His has shown and continues to show a disrespect for women, including his wife and past wife.
    2) He has a cold war mentality- unable and unwilling to understand the evolution of "third world" countries and how they relate to an ever-growing world economy, a cold war mentality that not only places him politically in a backward state of mind filled with suspicion for cultures that do not mirror ours, but also places him chronologically in an era of political thought of what amounts to who can write their name best in the snow.
    3) His reactionary response to everything is war or the threat of war.  Pre-emptive strikes are not the way to win friends and influence people.
  • Jarrodm

       Another good try on your part, yet your still wrong. You know Toe, you get on her and make a lot of claimes and accusitions and as normal you don't have anything to back them up. You yell that people here are just reiterating someone else's talking points. My question is how often do you clean that mirror that you are looking into when saying these things.
     I'm not even going to get into item 2 and 3 of your last post. Since just proving your trying to serve us all kool-aid on this first one, makes me not even want to bother with your other two miss-statments.

    1) His has shown and continues to show a disrespect for women, including his wife and past wife.

    This is from the transcript from the Saddleback Debate.
             1       A.  THEY DON'T GET ANY EASIER?
             2       Q.  NO THEY DON'T GET ANY EASIER.
  • toe
    What is your point?...it's difficult to read through your jumbled "thought" and creative spelling.

    As a woman, I placed McCain's treatment of women first because it is ingrained in his life- while it's possible that he may someday see that women are as equally capable (and in many instances BETTER) than men- to tell a joke that he found funny concerning rape, to (even in fun) offer up his wife as a contestant in what amounts to a slut contest, to treat his previous wife and family in the manner he did are FACTS. 
    The FACT that he is hot-headed- with a foul mouth and quick temper- McCain is NOT the person I want representing me or my country or in charge of "the button".  PERIOD.
  • Jarrodm
    Again you are making a lot of half accusations with out showing any proof to them. What was the joke, what was the context that it was told in. What slut contest was this?

    You know Toe, you constantly act as if your so superior to everyone at this site, yet you are the ones that seems to always incapable of making a real point, with real evidence.
  • Jarrodm
    Wow your right Toe, I should have read this part of the Transcript. This part really shows what he thinks of women.

  • Jarrodm
    For any one else that would like to read the Transcripts of this Debate they can be found at http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/
  • Chris
    Thanks for the link Jarrodm, but it's a bit hard to read since whoever wrote the transcript put it all in caps.

    Here's a link (from the same transcript) asking the questions and comparing the two side by side: http://www.thirty-thousand.org/pages/Saddleback...
  • toe
    Ted Sampley, who fought with US Special Forces in Vietnam and is now a leading campaigner for veterans’ rights, said: ‘I have been following John McCain’s career for nearly 20 years. I know him personally. There is something wrong with this guy and let me tell you what it is – deceit.
    ‘When he came home and saw that Carol was not the beauty he left behind, he started running around on her almost right away. Everybody around him knew it.
    ‘Eventually he met Cindy and she was young and beautiful and very wealthy. At that point McCain just dumped Carol for something he thought was better.
    ‘This is a guy who makes such a big deal about his character. He has no character. He is a fake. If there was any character in that first marriage, it all belonged to Carol.’

    as far as the "contest":  google it yourself "Jarrod"- the MIss Buffalo Chip contest.
    everyone else who actually reads the news knows of it.
    his gorilla joke suggesting that women enjoy rape is NOT funny, but does underscore his neanderthal thinking towards women.
    his comments regarding chelsea clinton are well known.
  • toe
    "jarrod" your statement:
    You know Toe, you constantly act as if your so superior to everyone at this site, yet you are the ones that seems to always incapable of making a real point, with real evidence.

    i have not only given you facts- i have given you the opportunity to check them for yourself.
    it's amazes me that you sit in your little mental cubicle and ready immediately believe in trash emails, misquoted and misrepresented statements regarding obama's stand on any number of issues , refusing to check facts for yourself and have the nerve to fault me for being superior for having done this. 
    you are welcome to live in your poorly maintained mental and educated state- that would be your choice.  
  • Jarrodm

        LOL Are you kidding me Toe. Your talking about something that happened 22 years ago. From my research it would seem that this was all made up for political reasons. Seeing how the only written article on it, even states that no one is sure what was said. The person writing the article even states that she heard this second hand. Does not exactly sound like conclusive evidence to anything, other then maybe a last ditch effort to derail McCain 13 days before an election.


       Again are you freaking kidding me Toe. Ted Sampley, your using this man as some sort of source of information. You best check out more on this despicable man. www.miafacts.org/prankster.htm
       As far as the issues between him and his first wife, I know he regrets a lot of what happen. As shown during the Saddleback debates. It is his biggest regret, and his acknowledges that he sinned a lot during this time.
    Toe your points are a joke, and unfounded. Your blinded to the real world around you, and the destruction to this nation that Barack will cause if he is elected. We all thought that Carter was bad, just wait because it is going to get much worse.
  • Jarrodm
    LMFAO @ TOE,

      Your out ragged by this.

       OMG you are a sad person TOE, a very very sad person. Please explain to me how this is degrading to his wife?
  • Jarrodm
    LMFAO @ Toe

      Are you kidding me, this is what has your panties in a twist.


    I'm not sure I'm seeing the offensive part in this? This is what one would call talk to your audience. Sort of like when Clinton get's a southern drawl in her voice when talking down South. It is called relating to your audience. I would think that such a well educated woman as your self would understand that. For some reason his wife did not seem all that offended, in fact I think that she was blushing a little.  Toe your ridicules that is all I can say.

    Again like I stated before. You come in here making these judgments and these claims, and they are all built on half truths, or out right lies perpetrated by the kool-aid drinkers. I had respect for you before but not any more. Your a well educated, very articulate moron just like Barack.
  • Jarrodm


    I'm not sure I'm seeing the offensive part in this? This is what one would call talk to your audience. Sort of like when Clinton get's a southern drawl in her voice when talking down South. It is called relating to your audience. I would think that such a well educated woman as your self would understand that. For some reason his wife did not seem all that offended, in fact I think that she was blushing a little.  Toe your ridicules that is all I can say.
    Again like I stated before. You come in here making these judgments and these claims, and they are all built on half truths, or out right lies perpetrated by the kool-aid drinkers. I had respect for you before but not any more. Your a well educated, very articulate moron just like Barack.
  • toe
    Like I said "jarrod",  you are certainly entitled to remain ignorant- this would be your choice.  If you believe placing me intellectually in the same sentence with Obama is a slam, you are even more ignorant than your posts prove; not just by their content, the spelling, the lack of reason and logic and unwillingness for truth seeking on your part, you must resort to name calling rather than admit that you are wrong and proven so.  Good luck with that.
    I have stated my reasons why McCain will never get my vote.  Never.
    One leads by example.  McCain has shown himself to be not the example of a leader I want.
  • Jarrodm
    Let me try this one more time a little more organized so you can follow Toe. For all your supposed education, it sure it hard to make you understand.

    Your Points.

      1. McCain is bad to Women.  (My Rebuttals in are in Bold)
             Your Evidence
                   a:) rape/ape Joke: No one seems to be able to definitively prove that he told this joke some 22 years ago.
                b:) Ted Sampley: The same guy that claimed MIA Wetzle was chopped up into little pieces, only to find out when Wetzle was found that Sampley made it up.
                   c:) McCains ex-wife: McCain said that the break up of his first marriage was his biggest regret, and that he did a lot of sinful things during this time. Let's not forget that he also got home from being a prisoner of war. Not that, that would not mess with your mind a little.
                    d:) Miss Buffalo Chip: I'm still puzzled why your offended at this, when his wife was not. In fact she seemed to be blushing a little bit. Most women like it when their husbands believe they are beautiful.

       Like I said before the other points you where trying to make are nothing more then opinions based on lies and half truths. I will grant you that it is possible that McCain made some really off color bad jokes. No one is perfect in this world. You made a statement in another post on this board that you don't understand why Conservatives would vote for McCain if they don't back him 100%. Yet you get your panties in a twist about conservatives here supposedly not thinking for them selves. Seems a little ironic that we are able to say hey you know what, there are things that I don't like about the Republican candidate this year. He is not a true conservative, and I don't agree with everything that he does or says. But because of the things that I know about barrack, I would rather vote for McCain.

       mmmmm It would seem to me that this shows that most of the conservatives on this board understand the issues, and understand the candidates and have used their brain power to come to a conclusion. I don't know why you come to a conservative board and get all upset when people don't listen to you. It would be the same thing if I was such a McCain worshiper like you are with Barrack, and when to a Liberal board. Maybe you need to find a new audience, one that is more willing to drink the kool-aid that you are trying to sell.
  • Jarrodm
    I really hope that every one takes the time to check this Ted Sampley out.


       You acctualy tried to use this guy as a source of information about McCain. You should be ashamed of yourself. Honestly I believe that you owe everyone at this board an appoligy for even trying that. This guy is scum, and you quoted him as a source. You are more of a fool then I thought.
  • WadeHM
    People who have sex then want to abort the unwanted child are selfish, self centered, childish, and more. If you don't want kids, don't have sex in the first place.

    Also, there are plenty of sources that follow and post the voting records of all politicians. If YOU check out the same sources you would find the truth.
  • ML Smith
    This is beginning to sound like a bad soap opera.

    First, I trust McCain about as far as Johhny Unitas could throw him today. I really don't care that much about his private life, his marriages,  his philandering or his attitude toward women. He has no morals or ethics...what would you expect of anyone running for office? Sure, McCain has a closet full of rubber blow-up skeletons. If he were elected, I would be mighty nervous because the man is clearly trigger happy and he doesn't shoot straight either. I wonder how much time he spends hunting with Cheney.
    One thing, though; at least we know what pile of filth he is coming from. He clearly does not do a very good job of hiding his bulls flaws. That may have more to do with arrogance than incompetence...I don't know and I don't care.
    Obama, on the other hand, is a real "slickster." I am absolutely certain that his closet is jam packed with skeletons of all shapes and sizes. So far, we have only seen the few items he couldn't stuff in that closet because there was no space. As nervous as McCain makes me, Obama scares the living shshshoe polish out of me. So much so that I am ssstarting to ssstutter, and that is a rare keyboard affliction...tiggered by Fear. I pray to God that his closet is opened...while I cannot say for sure what lies within, I am more than a little suspicious about it's contents.

    We really know very little about this man. As far as I can tell, he was invisible until the presidential rhetoric began; I do not know what hole he was hiding in, but it was deep and well camouflaged. Obama literally came from the clouds. One day he was nobody, and then rather suddenly, he became the "Tiger Woods" of politics, and that anology has nothing to do with his talent and everything to do with his styrofoam charisma. 

    Anybody out there familiar with Grace Potter's song "Ah, Mary?" Change the title to "Ah, Obamica," and you will understand where I am coming from.

    This man is a lot like nature; one minute he can be a bright, cloudless day, and the next minute he can be the twister that hurls you and your house to Kansas. I have said this before, but I will say it again...We do not know who this man is! Which is why I would vote for McCain. He may be a scoundrel, but at least we know what he is capable of doing. I am not willing to find out who Obama is after he is is elected. 

    Go ahead, tell me I am paranoid. Tell me I don't know what I am talking about and I will pray that you are right, because I believe Obama can destroy this country of ours, and if my instincts are right, this country may not be ours by the time he gets done dismantling it. We know about the creeps he aligns himself with - they are noisy and harmless. I am worried about the ones he hangs with that we don't know about. 

    They said that they would bring us to our knees, and they said that they would do it from within. Let's not argue about who "they" are...we all know. Right now, as I write this, I am listening to Jimmy Hendricks...a rare blues album, (most of it acoustic) and I am thinking about people who would kill me for listening to this. 

    Will I be able to play Hendricks on my stereo next August?

    ML Smith
  • toe
    McCain's party-boy activities during his schooling are a matter of public record.  McCain's poor academics are a matter of public record.
    McCain's womanizing following his release as a POW is a matter of public record.  The fact that he applied for a marriage license to Cindy while still married to his first wife is a matter of public record.  The fact that he dumped his former beauty queen wife who had become disabled and disfigured due to a horrific car accident for a younger, rich, beauty queen is a matter of public record. The Chelsea "joke" is a matter of public record.  The Buffalo Chip contest was an insult to decent women everywhere. (a fact that you as a male cannot understand) .The foul mouth and hot temper of McCain (even demonstrated and witnessed on the senate floor) is a matter of public record.  
    As far a abortion is concerned- when I see you and every anti-choice advocate person out there putting as much effort into the PREVENTION of an unwanted pregnancy- your words hold no water.  Your conservative office holders continue to veto this.
    While Obama has stated over and over again his personal opinion regarding abortion, he has stated his support for  the Roe vs. Wade decision AND in the same sentence... in every instance,  Obama has stated his solid support for the education and facilities available to address the PREVENTION OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES, as well as addressing the problem of absentee fathers.  Accountability and Responsibility.
  • toe
    "jarrod" , try this on for size:
  • Harriet Blyleven
    Re: infowars.com

    A close-up shot of Neo's passport, in "The Matrix" - the date on the passport is 9-11-01. Coincidence? Go to the site and check it out for yourself. 

    ML Smith - you, sir, are a complete moron. Are we supposed to believe that your fortune teller story is true? And even if it is, who cares? It only proves the fact that you are an idiot. To think that a medium has USB ports on her crystal ball. You have to be kidding! Why don't you find yourself a blog site for crackpots and weirdos. It would be perfect for you.
  • JarrodM

    seeing how the third headline on that web site is to promote Ted Sampley's slander against McCain, and we all ready proved what a kook he is I think that your link is full of crap.
  • toe
    Jarrod, I don't expect you to be objective enough to read this, but, for others here that have an active interest in learning:

    Debunking anti-Obama e-mails
    Error-filled chain e-mails designed to scare voters away from Barack Obama are circulating widely on the Internet. Salon deconstructs a pair, one smearing the candidate, the other his wife.
  • toe
    I find it interesting that you gladly embraced Ted Sampley when he was behind the intended sinking of Kerry.  
    My point in placing this link was to get you out of your little mental cubicle, "Jarrod"- now that you have learned how to click on a link,  try finding points of view other than your own and see if you can understand how this thinking came about and how it differs from your own.  To call Obama supporters "sheep" , "misguided", "elitists", "socialists", indicates that you are capable of nothing other than spitting up the words of Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh.
  • toe
    @ML Smith ..he has neither been "invisible" nor "hiding in a hole"

  • Jarrodm
    "I find it interesting that you gladly embraced Ted Sampley when he was behind the intended sinking of Kerry. "
       Why Toe you must be someone I know if you know that I embraced Ted Sampley, you should have seen what happen after all the embracing took place, later that night.
       This is typical of you Toe, rather then refuting directly my counter point, you try and defame me in some other way. I never have been, and I will never embrace smucks like Ted. 

       "My point in placing this link was to get you out of your little mental cubicle, "Jarrod"- now that you have learned how to click on a link,  try finding points of view other than your own and see if you can understand how this thinking came about and how it differs from your own."
       Again just because my beliefs are not the same as yours does not mean that I have not research or studied your beliefs also. I know all about your beliefs Toe and I disagree with them. That is the point, you have come to a location where 95% of the people believe different then you do, and you act offended by it. Take your Gay loving, Baby killing, socialist idea's some where else.

        I realize that a person like you will never understand what it means to stand with your brothers and sister in a foreign land trying to make life better for the people their, so that your own Country is safer. I realize that you will never understand what true responsibility is, and that you will never truly hold people accountable for their actions, no matter how sad the story is. I realize that you believe in some utopian world where everyone get's to do what they want, and their is no judging. I hate to tell you but in the real world, life is not fair, and in order to have a moralistic society, you have to have rules, even if that means some people are just not going to do what every they want.

        I know that you think that I work my ass off every day to make life better for others, by allowing the Government to take my money, But I don't. I work every day for me, my self, my family, and those that I choose are deserving of my charity. I don't care if my spelling sucks, and if my grammar is not correct, according to Barrack my household is rich, so I would say that I'm doing just fine with out your English lessons.
        The bottom line for me is that I will never vote for Barrack, even if he was the second coming of JC. He is against gun ownership, he wants to raise taxes, he believes in abortion, and I don’t believe that he has a clue when it comes to the Economy.
        Case in point, he wants to take the profits of the oil company calling it a windfall tax. Let’s see the Oil Companies make about a 10% profit. Compared to other companies such as diamonds, and the Agriculture industry 10% is nothing. But let’s put that point to the side. So this 40Billion or what ever the number is this year of profits. Half of that already goes the Government. The rest of that goes back to the investors. Do you know who they are?? They are you and me, and one that has stock in these companies, and one that has a pension plan. So in the end Barack is not taking money from the Oil Companies he is taking it from the working man, who has invested his money.
       Look Toe, I realize that you don’t understand war, and what it means to tell another country that it is not OK to kill your citizens. I understand that you have been dubbed into believing that it is the Governments job to take from others to give to people who are not responsible. I will not begrudge you living in your fantasy world.
       As far as me parroting O’Riely, Rush, Hannity, or any one else that is false. Most days I don’t even have time to turn on the radio or TV let alone sit down and listen to these people. Sooner or later you might just have to face the fact that people truly do have these same beliefs. I just find it ironic that you accuse me of using some sort of mystical talking points, while you parrot the same Liberal kool-aid line about just spitting up there talking points. Seems to me that the kettle is calling the pot black.
       As far as believing that Obama backers are socialist and all of that, yes I do. Since his big platform is Universal Health care, and that is a socialist concept then yes, if that is what you believe that makes you a socialist.
       As far as your link about the E-Mails, I agree it is low to post information any where about anyone that is falls. Sort of like claming that Ted Sampley really knows McCain, when in fact he does not, and his actions are very questionable. But you would never do that Toe, because gosh you are above that right. Here is a little clue for you Toe. 90-95% of what is on the internet is either porn or a lie. Most of the Media can not be trusted to not have some sort of bios’ opinion. All we can do in this world is hold true to what we believe in and fight for these things. If you believe in Gay rights, abortion, and socialism then fight for them. But for me, you will never get me to agree with them.
  • WadeHM
    I've stayed out of this discussion because, of course, toe is absolutely right no matter what. Toe is in denial.

    Jarrodm, your last post is right on.

    And as dar as that 9-11-01 Matrix thing, coincidence or Photoshop? Oh right, the Matrix came out in what, 1999? Yeah they knew about the terrorists attacks coming when they made that movie. Brother!
  • ML Smith
    When election talk began last year, who was the prime topic of conversation? It certainly was not Obama. If your memory is as good as the rest of your line of shshshenanigans, you will recall that roughly 90 percent of the media's time was spent on Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Mit Romney...Obama was invisible. Then, gradually, ever so slowly, step by step, his name began to pop up. Not as a potential candidate, either, but simply as a Senator with a completely different perspective, i.e. no perpective at all, who could become candidate material. No one knew much about him, and if you think that I am wrong on this, tell me, how long did it take for anyone to even begin questionning his ancestral tree or possible ties with entities of questionable middle eastern background?

    Obama was invisible and still is. You are obviously concerned with the fate of our nation as am I, but you are blinded by your zeal for this snake oil salesman.
  • toe
    I don't consider myself to be "blinded", ML Smith- McCain is not an option.  Like you said, you know already what you'll get with McCain- and that's ok with you. 
    The problem is we've already had that for the past 7+ years and look where we are!  One does not expect different results when the ingredients are the same- I don't care if you are making a cake or a candidate.

    McCain? Never. He's the wrong person going in the wrong direction in my opinion.
  • ML Smith

    Ahhh, if only I didn't have a conscience. Okay, okay, you are right and truth be told, I couldn't sleep knowing I had said that. I can't vote for McCain either...I would sooner vote for some nameless street junkie than vote for him, but it doesn't leave me with any alternatives. Who do I vote for? You know what I think of Obama. I can't vote for him.

    I would drop a vote in for the Socialist Labor Party candidate, but they don't know what they are talking about.

    "Let the workers take control of the means of production and distribution?" I once wrote a letter to their newspaper, The Weekly People, and got this reponse:

    "Workers of the world will unite. All goods and services will be shared equally." How in God's name do they think they are going to pull that one off? The workers of the world will do the same thing they did 200 years ago - figure out a way to make a profit and bingo - capitalism all over again. So, they are out, since they are selling the same product we already have...and I am not a socialist, communist, buddhist or any other "ist."

    Capitalism works as long as it does not become a means for the wealthy to control the political system. That is exactly what is happening now. I spent 6 months in Cambodia back in the 1970's and 7 months in Iraq in 2002-3. There are some funny (not hah ha ) things going on over there, and I'll share them on my next post as soon as I get enough caffeine in my system to function.

    ML Smith
  • Jarrodm
    OK Toe you say that this Country is in a bad way because of Bush for the last 7+ years.  What Items would you say are bad, and how is it that it is Bush's fault? And how is Barrack going to change these things for the better. You claim to be an expert on this, so let's here it. I asked David this once, and he just ignored it.
  • ML Smith

    Excuuuse me for butting in, but have you been in a coma for the past 7 years.
    The sociopath you refer to as Bush has allowed our infrastucture to decay, bled the economy dry financing his paranoid "wild goose chases" for weapons of mass destruction, blatantly lied to the people of this country, including the boys he has sent to Iraq to fight his war, established and set in motion a policy that denies treatment to the ones that come home psychologically damaged ( many beyond repair -  do you have any idea what it does to your mind to watch your best friend launched into a brick wall by a suicide bomber, only to be peeled off the wall like you might some bad graffiti, or have a baby's head land at your feet, look up and see a man leaning out of a three story window...smiling?) 

    What has Bush done that is so bad? Well, we were once a great nation because we led by example and upheld the values we espoused...freedom of speech, the sanctity of human life; and we didn't look the other way when Wall Street stick-up men robbed us. 

    We were a great nation because we didn't nickle and dime the needs of our veterans. Last month, the administrator of a VA Mental Health facility in Texas initiated the admistration's new policy by blatantly telling her clinicians to STOP diagnosing (returning Vets from Iraq) with PTSD, because, as she very forwardly stated, that diagnosis would entitle them to treatment and disablility...possibly lifelong. So, these boys who once had dreams of a real life; you know, the one with the white picket fence, two lovable kids and a beautiful wife...now don't even recall the faces on the photos in their wallets.

    Any of those kids could have been mine or yours. What would we not have done for those beautiful boys we created out of love?

    Bush..."how is it that it is his fault." What? Are you serious? Or, have you joined Sociopaths Anonymous? If you haven't, maybe you should.

  • Jarrodm

      With all due respect to your miss guided opinion. I was over in Iraq for 2 years. I had friends that did not come home, I have friends that will never be right in the head again, and I would go over there again in a second, and so would they.

      You make a lot of claims, just like Toe with no proff to these claims. Your like the rest of the liberal establishment that claims the war in Iraq is illegal yet, I have not seen any one brought up on charges. Do you know why that is, because it is a legal war.

       Remember that little invasion of Kuwait?? Yes at the ned of that their where mandates that Iraq signed off on for full disclosure of their weapons of mass destruction. You know the ones that where used on it's own citzens. Trust me I don't forget that most of these came from the US to begine with. But like most things that is in the past.

       See Saddam time and time again went against these mandates, making most of the world believe that he was still hidding something. Seeing how Terrorist where on the rise after attacking the US, and we opended up a war to combat this war on Terror, it was also the responsibility of the President to make sure that WMD could not get into the heands of the terrorist. Seeing how Saddam wanted for some reason to make the world believe that he had these weapons, and he was in violation of the UN mandates, we rolled in their to clean house. Liek war, hate war, but you should be thankful that people are willing to put their ass on the line to make sure that this world is a much safier place.

       My CO had a pretty good theroy on why a lot of the WMD was never found, because what we did find had US stamped all over it. Either way, I don't loss any sleep at night, because I was their, I talked to the people, I worked with them, I patrolled with them, and they where willing to die for their freedom, they where graciouse, and thankful for the help of the US. So don't you dare sit their and try to dictate to me how it is, because I have been their and I know that facts direct from the ground. As far as the infrastructure here in the US, their are already more then enough taxes that are taken out of our paychecks to pay for that shit. but your beloved Librals running Congress, that by they way are the ones that write the checks not the president, have been wasting that money on pork projects. So again, the money is there they just are to busy doing God knows what to spend it the right way.

       As far as your claimes about the VA, I would love to read up on them. I have not had to deal with the VA, but I do have some buddies that have, and they have gotten great treatment. I'm sure there is a bad side to it, just like everything else that is Government ran, their are going to be bad sides to it. Last time I checked Bush is not the director of the VA, and hence laying this at his feet, I think would be a little short sitted.

      I'm not say that theire are not issues with the VA, like all things I'm sure it could be done much better.
  • ML Smith

    I am glad to see that you are so courageous.

    There was a good reason for my abbreviated stay in Iraq. You have absolutely no idea what I saw, did, or had done to me. Yet, despite the fact that you imply that I was just a casual observer, I have not resorted to that kind of rhetoric with you. For all I know, you may have suffered more than I did. I take nothing for granted, but you take enormous liberties in spite of your ignorance.

    Now, since you have my blood boiling, I am going to take some liberties of my own. You may have been in Iraq for two years, but I seriously doubt that you were captured, tortured, and returned to Walter Reed weighing 87 pounds. You don't know the first thing about suffering. You have no idea what it is like to have your dignity as a human being trashed and dumped upon by culturally insane people who attach no significance to human life. Perhaps we both experienced first hand the trauma of attempting to fight an enemy that embraces the one thing we fear...death. As you know, it is awfully hard to fight someone that has just blown himself to smithereens. It is impossible to fight an enemy that that thinks it is funny to toss a baby's head out of a three story window.
    But all of this is beside the point. We are not comparing war stories...no, we are, and that is wrong. I give you credit - you suckered me into that. Actually, we are not arguing about anything, except our pov's about Bush. You know what? I don't care enough about that right now to continue the fray. Assuming that Bush has been a terrific President, I have the following questions:
    1. Why do the oil conglomerates have teams of agricultural engineeers and chemists in Afghanistan and norhtern Iraq?
    2. Why do they have military escorts - battalians of 200 or more, protecting them and land that does not belong to them?
    3. Why would they be interested in soil that is good for only one thing. Do I need to mention here what that is? I will tell you this, there is no oil beneath that soil, but the product of that soil is worth billions.
    4. Why did the same thing happen in Cambodia?
    Don't tell me you have no idea what I am talking about, because if you do, you either weren't in Iraq or you were so numbed by the product of that innocent looking flower that you didn't notice anything odd about what was going on around you. I can't accept the idea that you were so distanced from reality that you didn't notice. Everyone I was with noticed, and we spoke about it everyday. Today, I can speak about it because I am delusional, psychotic, depressed and paranoid. It is all well documented by the VA, despite the fact that my scores on the MMPA showed absolutely no abnormalities other than an implication of PTSD.
    Are you still going to stand by your opinion of Bush? Okay.
  • ML Smith

    Look it up on the web...PTSD - VA - Texas. And it is, in fact, administration policy that is being adhered to by all VA facilities.

    Regardless of what you find or don't bother to look for, please keep your judgements about me to yourself. If you care to know me, I will let you in, but if your sole purpose is to trash me and my experience, you are more of a ceep than I thought.
  • toe
    I respect your service in our military- both of you.  I have long been in favor of absolute full lifetime medical coverage for any American who fought in theater- not just for those with obvious wounds, but for all involved placed in harms way.  I think this is the least we can do for men and women who represented our country.  I have family in Iraq, and Afghanistan.  I have a 20 year old niece who saw horrific things that will forever be imprinted in her mind.  She will never be the same.  Yes, I am angry.  Angry at Bush for his incompetence, angry that because he was so determined to "take out" Saddam that he lied the American people, to Congress, and to the world.  He did not just hurt my niece, he sent 4,000 Americans to their deaths based upon lies.
    You know what finally turned heads?  What made the American people sit up and say, "Damn you George Bush! Not in my name!"?  An American soldier outed the photos of Abu Ghraib- absolute torture and humiliation done for the fun of it.  This American soldier knew the repercussions should his mates learn that he was the one to leak this information,  but he knew how wrong this torture was.  There have been many heroes since the US occupied a country that had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks on September 11th-  This soldier stands alone at the top.  He name was kept from the news out of fear for his life.  Who ended up outing him? Donald Rumsfeld in testimony before Congress!  This soldier could not return to his hometown because of the threats.  His parents there received death threats as well.  60 minutes did a piece on him more than a year ago which should be required viewing.
    The military, the pentagon, and the White House all knew that Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire.  They withheld this information from not just Americans, but also from Tillman's own family because they had used Tillman as their poster boy for patriotism-  Even today, while the White House claims they did nothing wrong  they refuse to release information regarding his death, even to his family!
    Jarrod, the fact that you have been so blind to the many, many wrongs of this administration boggles the mind.  It simply boggles the mind. 
     @ML Smith- in response to your thought on what to do about the vote- the Socialist Party has never been the answer and never will be.  If Obama is not an option for you, if I had your conservative leanings I would vote for Barr.  It is unfortunate that the mainstream media have ignored his candidacy.  The Saddleback forum ignored him.  The Libertarian Party is legitimate and should be showcased as such.
  • JarrodM
    LOOK ML, you are the one that accused me of having no idea, I was just stating that yes I do have an idea. I thank you for your service, and I'm sorry that you are not getting the treatment that you deserve.

    You bring up some interesting points, but you don't point to any evidence of it. You are the first person that I have ever heard of bring up these points about American oil man in Iraq. I could understand that we have troops stationed in parts of Iraq helping to protect the Oil fields and stations that are in Iraq. We should of from day one had troops protecting these locations, and many more locations. Like I said it was not a perfect war, and there are many many things that could have been done much better. Maybe if we had some one like Petrause running the forces from the get go things would have been much better.

    I have heard many times that it was all about oil, and this and that. Last time I checked US oil tankers are not lining up anywhere in Iraq filling up with free oil. The one major asset that Iraq has, and it a key part of any possible stability that their government can have is the money that they will get from Oil. Let's face it, military's are not free, and even Iraq soldiers require payment.

    I'm interested in knowing who you where with over in Iraq. I was with the 34th ID Eco 2-136 (Earthpigs) while I was over there.

    I did some research, and I found info about what is going on with the VA in Texas. I agree this woman should be fired. No soldier should ever be treated that way. Although I got from the article that she was not saying that soldiers should not be diagnosed with PTSD, but that it should not be an immediate diagnosis. I think that it was a very insensitive thing for her to do, and that it should have been handled in a much better manor. But I don't understand how you can lay this on the feet of Bush.

  • JarrodM

    What you call an occupation, I call free a country. That soldier that outed what these despicable people did at Aubgrab, is a hero in my mind. It is unfortunate was always happens to these people who stand up for what is right.

    I know that we are far from ever agreeing on anything, but please if nothing else answer me this one question. Put out of your mind what Bush and Congress and every one else was reading in the intelligence reports since we don't have them to read.

    Saddam, for years and years after the Gulf war in 91(The year I enlisted) would let these inspectors in, and just when they where about to find something (or possible clear him if nothing was there) he would kick them out, or play some other game. It has always been my impression that eaither he had the stuff, and we know that he used it at one time against his own people, and he hide it somewhere. Or he used it all, or got rid of it all, but yet wanted the world to believe that he had it. If he did not have then why not just let the inspectors in to show that he did not have it?

    Look I understand you hate Bush, and you feel that he lied to you. But Saddam lied to the world one way or another, and he was the one that invaded Kuwait to start all of this. We where attacked by Terrorist, and while Iraq was not involved, and no one is saying that they where. But Saddam having WMD, and his relationship with Terror groups. (He paid Hezbola families money when their sons turned into Sucied boommers.) The premtive nature of the war on Iraq, was to make sure that what ever Saddam had for WMD did not fall in these peoples hands. For me that is why I went over there, and I truly believe not only did mine and the 4000 dead, and thousands injured, and every one of the soldiers that have been there have made this world safer in that context.

    My only hope is that Saddam no longer had WMD, and that he lied to the world about it, and for what ever reason would not let it be verified. Because if he did have them, then someone else has them now, and that thought makes me shudder.
  • ML Smith
    Jarrodm and Toe,

    For the record:

    1. I never said I didn't receive the treatment I needed - I was and continue to be concerned with the treatment NOT being recieved by returning Vets who are PTSD material. Honestly, anyone in combat in Iraq that doesn't come home severly traumatized is extremely lucky.
    2. As far as I am concerned, I did receieve the treatment I needed - according to an agenda that had nothing to do with my own well being.
    3. Regarding the above statement, or perhaps to clarify it, it has only been within the past 18 months that I have gained any recall about my stay in Iraq.
    4. Deaths by friendly fire are common. This does not mean that Pat Tillman's death should be ignored or go un-investigated.
    Of course, you have to define exactly what you mean by friendly fire.
    Some of these deaths are purely accidental and therefore can be attributed to friendly fire...a wayward projectile, bullet fired eroneously by a panicked soldier, etc. There are many government embedded men and women, implanted for intelligence purposes.  Because our
    communications and Intel are sloppy, to say the least, some of them die needlessly. These incidents are not made privvy to the media, and as far as Bush or any of our military people in command are concerned, such incidents "never happened." Then there are incidents that fall into a gray area that is generally panic related, but occasionally appears from every perspective to be outright murder. For reasons that I cannot understand, all of these are listed as accidental, friendly fire episodes. Again, most of these "never happened."
    5. Saddam Hussein is the prefect scapegoat for our presence in Iraq. I do not believe that Bush was remotely interested in WMD's. The idea that Hussein was leaking disinformation doesn't match-up with our intervention. If Bush, stupid as he is, thought there was any credence to it, he would never have laid his cards on the table without tangible proof. That is what "intelligence" is for, and ours is not what it should be...still, we would have had much more tangible evidence. And it would not have been that hard to get, either. Did Bush even try to get any info from Israeli Intel? Knowing that theirs is the best in the world, why would he pass up that opportunity. In fact, he didn't even pay attention to Israel's indifference. If they knew there was any substance to the disinformation, they most certainly would have responded and it would not have been pretty. 

    Disinformation or not, there are WMD's in Iraq and Iran. Will they use them? Absolutely. That is why they have them. Hussein did not. If he did, there would be no more Middle East. But those who do surely have a plan, and I doubt that they will use them in the Middle East. Where, then?
    They have been telling us that for years.
    "We will bring you to your knees." Well, that's not going to happen in Iraq, or enywhere else in the Middle East. If it did, we would obliterate them all. They are not that stupid. They will strike first, where it hurts the most, and they will strike more than once - with WMD's and anything they can use to destroy our infrastucture, which is an accident waiting to happen, anyway. Right? ...?...wanted to know if we had any common personal connections. I doubt it. I wasn't with anybody and could not truste. anyone...still don't. This apparent paranoia on my part is necessary and intentional. It doesn't mean that I am off in space somewhere.
  • Harriet
    Mr. Smith,

    You seem to think you know everything about Senator Obama...soon to be President Obama. Not surprisngly, you don't seem to have any hard evidence to back-up your claims. Bottom line? You are a fraud.

    Barrack Hussein Obama is a man unafraid to reveal his ancestral tree because he has nothing to hide. Are you actually suggesting that he is somehow connected to Hezbollah or Hamas? Or, do you think he has connections to Osama Bin Laden? I hope that you know what libel laws are about, because you are guilty of numerous violations. You can't just start labeling someone as a terrorist because you "think he might be."

    Smith, you are postively revolting - your attitude is loaded with arrogance and your knwledge is packed with misinformation. People like you are responsible for almost all of our problems in this great nation of ours.

    There is an old saying that applies perfectly to you; take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. Apparently the shoe is not big enough to shut you up.

  • ML Smith
    Miss Harriet:

    You have a problem. No...actually you have many problems. Your rhetoric is disturbing...I must say that I am ssstresed by your criticisms and as a result I tend to ssstutter.

    I think you are drowning in the cesspool of your own shshshshenanigans. Why should I take you seriously? You criticise me for lack of evidence to support my claims? But you fail to identify the claims you say are a product of "misinformation." What did I say that you believe was incorrect? And what is it that agitates you. Yes, I understand that the truth can be painful. I was devastated the day I learned that Santa Claus was not real.

    Well, Obama is our contemporary Santa, carrying his bag of fancy words and platitudes that have mesmerized a public desperate for a present...and they will continue to believe as long as people like you give them reason to hope that there is something tangible in that bag. I think we have heard enough of his rhetoric...frankly, I have lost patience in his ability to deliver. Words are easy to come by. Actual plans for action are not and Obama seems to be lost in his private fairy tale world.

    Tell me one thing that he stands for...just one, and it cannot be a flip or a flop, either.