Seeing images of Biden with Obama, is it just me or does Biden appear far more presidential?

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd345/allwin...

it's just you

Well, so much for the sweeping change, anti-Washington-insider movement.  Hard to find a guy more inside than old Biden.

My first thought was McCain should run an add highlighting Obama/Biden as *The Plagiarism Ticket*!

zz,  you could run with your tired noise. you'd fit right in with mc cain.  we all could fall ZZZZzzzz .

you can just sit and simmer away in your little stew pot.
biden is the most excellent choice and democrats could not be more pleased. republicans are never going to be able to explain away their "elitist-more-homes-than-i-can-count-" mc cain.  romney will only add to this.

could not be happier!

oh, and try to find a bumper sticker that can be removed easily so that you don't look so silly in january.

UC.....
"....... in an apparent move to balance his ticket with someone with actual political experience"
i guess some people think political experience is more important than common sense.  But remember this:
Those 26 yrs. of congressional&senate experience has helped move our country ever deeper into crisis......an almost $10 TRILLION debt.

"I am very certain that this military engagement will not be very difficult." (John McCain, September 12, 2002.)

"But the fact is, I think we could go in with much smaller numbers than we had to do in the past. But any military man worth his salt is going to have to prepare for any contingency, but I don't believe it's going to be nearly the size and scope that it was in 1991." (John McCain, September 15, 2002.)

"I think the victory will be rapid, within about three weeks." (John McCain, January 28, 2003.)

John McCain's experience certainly seems to trump Obama's Judgment

@ "ZZZzzz"
" ....My first thought was McCain should run an add highlighting Obama/Biden as *The Plagiarism Ticket*!"

oh yes, please go down that road!... mc cain already has drawn his cross in the sand on this...ripping off solgenitzen's book. 

a noun, a verb, and POW.  it's not just worn thin...changing the stories as it suits him,   he cheapens the lives of those who served with honor.

again, conservatives have nothing of their own - watching them scramble about trying to defend a failed foreign policy, a failed domestic leadership, and corruption within this current administration is rather amusing, i must say.

Don't worry about not getting your text message.  I'm sure you'll be getting a lot of text messages in the near future asking you for more money.....

Victory in Iraq is hardly failed foreign policy.  Of course if Obama wins, he will turn it to failure sure as day turns to night.


As for Joe Biden, I too could not be happier.  He must have leapt out of his skin when he found out he would be tapped.  LOL.  I mean he knows this is the only way he can EVER get to the White House.  But alas, he'll be a loser  ..  again.  I think gephardt holds the record for running so many times and being rejected and still not "getting" the idea the country doesn't want him.  Biden has to be a close second.  


LOL


P.S.  Latest poll has McCain ahead by 10 electoral votes.  The votes that really count.  Guffaw!


out.

Where will you be when the riots break out?




out.

i will be watching you being put in jail for starting them.

apparently you spend a great deal of time listening to rush and hannity and the others predicting "chaos"... dream on little dreamer.

you are backing the wrong horse and being left in the dust.
tsk tsk.

hoboboh, once again, you are incorrect.  stassen ran the most times for prez...
9 times...
and lost...
every time...
and...
he was a republican.

biden is one of the most respected, most experienced, most knowledgeable elected officials in washington- he is a man who lives his beliefs and cherishes his family, friends, and country.
while barak speaks softly and carries a big stick- joe will go toe to toe and packs a wallop of a verbal punch.  he won't lie- he'll just knock you out of your sox with the truth. 
mc cain will tell you everything you want to hear- in several versions, then retract it the following day to another group- instead of his $500 loafers, mc cain should think about wearing galoshes to keep from having his soggy feet of clay from dissolving completely beneath him.

".....Victory in Iraq is hardly failed foreign policy."
Victory in Iraq?  Sounds like "Peace with honor" from late 1972......
So, we have a "time-horizon".  Wonder what'll happen when we leave?
Yes, with 4,000 dead Americans and record profits for KBR & Exxon/Mobile was a success for some, but certainly not for me!

This is just great for McCain.   Biden actually endorsed him over Obama in the primaries.   And Obama picked someone that likes to hear himself speak even more that Obama.

I think he would have been better off choosing Tim Kaine, Governor of Virginia, than good old Joe 'Bleeding Heart Liberal" Biden. I think he could have won with Kaine than with Biden and I'm a staunch conservative. I realize he is looking for experience in a VP, but Joe??? Look for further staus quo in Washington, if he does get elected. In fact look for the Dems to run the U.S. further into Liberalism/Socialism.

Toe writes:


mc cain already has drawn his cross in the sand on this...ripping off solgenitzen's book. 


Actually, I don't believe it's in Solzhenitsen's book, but in an article about Solzhenitsen by father Luke Veronis, who inncorrectly attributed the store to The Gulag Archipelago. But it wasn't in there. According to Michael Scammell, author of Solzhenitsyn: A Biography, the cross-in-the-dirt episode never happened. There is no reference to such an event in any of Solzhenitsyn’s published writings. 


So, apparently McCain is plagiarizing a fake story about Solzhenitsyn that isn't in The Gulag Archipelago, despite almost every attack on McCain regarding the story saying it is. AFAIK, McCain first used the story in Faith of my Fathers, published in 1999 after the Luke Veronis article and the 1985 book by Charles Colson that supposedly the source of the anecdotal cross story (there is not evidence Solzhenitsyn every actually relayed this story in any forum, though Colson claims he did). 


Several of McCain's colleagues report having heard this story from McCain well before 1985, so either they are lying or McCain is telling the truth. Or he made up the story first, before Colson or Veronis. 


Which is not to say going after Biden for plagiarism is a good idea. Hair plugs, maybe. ;)

Sorry for the italics tags in my previous post. Forgot where I was posting. ;)


I just wanted to also note that I think Biden was a smart choice, given Obama's choices for VP. He needs gravitas, and Biden gives him that. Picking a more conservative Dem like Chet Edwards wouldn't have won over conservatives, and would have alienated his liberal base. Going with someone even more liberal than Joe, like Sebelius, would have been problematic on a number of levels--even some left-of-center folks aren't quite ready for an African American and female ticket. Plus, Sebelius is, from what I've seen, pretty far left. Tim Kaine was practically begging for the job in a very public way, and I think that made him not the best choice. Biden is a good choice. A million times better than Kerry's choice of John Edwards, that's for sure.


I think the Obama camp has been running a pretty smart campaign. I heard a lot of this kind of carping about how stupid the Clinton campaign was, right up until he won. I think this is politically as astute move (I won't say shrewd--Obama didn't have any VP choices that were good enough to be "shrewd") but he's making the best choices with what he's got to work with, and the recent attack ads have been solid. As long as he moves on to the next thing (McCain can't remember how many houses he has is only good for a week, maybe, then it needs to be something else), Obama stands a good chance of winning. Even without a Perot style spoiler in the race.


I find McCain uninspiring, and think it's Obama's race to lose. Since I always show up to vote against the Democrats, I'm hoping it is. But I don't think fantasizing that Biden is this horrible choice is accurate, or helpful. For who Obama needs to pander to and placate, he's not bad. 


Now, it's up to McCain to either go RINO with his VP nom, and screw it up, or pick someone with some conservative bona fides and stay in the race.

Victory in Iraq is hardly failed foreign policy.  Of course if Obama wins, he will turn it to failure sure as day turns to night.


Pre-emptive wars are not a proven foreign policy strategy, and even if things turn out well, the costs are exorbitant and the additional safety we experience unquantifiable--you can't quantify what might have happened if you hadn't done something. Not on this kind of scale.


Victory in Iraq is not a proven foreign policy strategy, because the goals are very long term, and the short term threat was unquantifiable. And, to the degree we can quantify, it seems insubstantial. Hussein had a vested interest in being our sworn enemy but not ever doing anything to provoke a direct attack--as he would likely end up dead, as he did, when we decided to come on over anyway. As such, I think he was a marginal threat, and Iraq was chosen to be an example, and perhaps a test-case of the U.S. creating democracy in the middle-east. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I still don't think the war in Iraq was a necessity, or even particularly wise. I also don't think we should have abandoned the Kurds in 1991, and if we were going to remove Hussein that would have been the time to do it. 



That having been said, since president Obama can't go back in time and undo the war, will he really pull us out, damn the consequences?


I don't think so. I fully expect a President Obama to piss off the base pretty quickly, and be slow to withdraw troops and come up with nifty new Democratic spin to justify not abandoning Iraq. Cambodia, a direct result of the Democrats completely cutting of North Vietnam when we pulled out, was a bloodbath. It was genocide, and the Democrats had their fingerprints all over it. But the news of that got back slowly, and had very little effect on elections. These days, a bloodbath in Iraq or disaster in the middle east shortly after president Obama pulled everybody out would be politically devastating. Much worse than the far-left belly-aching that Obama didn't keep his promise to get us out of Iraq immediately upon being sworn in. As such, expect Obama's Iraq strategy and McCain's Iraq strategy to be almost exactly the same, with very different spin. 


The differences in foreign policy will come in how Obama deals with Iran, North Korea, Russia, etc. I don't think that would turn out well, but then, I'm not a liberal. Apparently, they think it would be great.

Kevin,
who ever is president is going to have to deal with ALL the blowback from lil georgie's grand adventure.........and it will boil down to who has more insight and common sense to deal with the results.  The ol guy with white  hair would like us to believe he is a maverick.......and many will believe that bullshit.

I really doubt Biden would have chosen Obama as his Veep had he, not Obama, won the nomination.  Read:
http://christianprophecy.blogspot.com/

I just created a campaign poster I think you'd be interested in sharing:


http://storefrontwindows.blogspot.com/



Cheers!


MISTAHCOUGHDROP

say what you will to defend your candidate, but, you know, i just can't get over this quote from obamas book...

"white mans greed...."

it just doesn't sit right with me somehow, you know?

now if a white person said that about a person of color or ethnicity... well, i guess all hell would break lose, because he'd be considered a racist.

guess non whites are considered nonracist, even tho they make blatant racist comments?

wasn't it wesley snipes that just got busted for tax evasion not to long ago? guess greed works in all colors , huh?

if he is such a uniter, then whey is there such a huge division amongst the liberals who support obama and the conservatives? guess what? he will NEVER EVER bring unity. no one can unite liberals and conservatives. NO ONE on earth. and if anyone tries to, they  are sell outs to thier own party and principles.


and i guess i can't get over other things too-- like him being freinds with bill aires and bernadene dorn... you know, the AMERICAN HATING RADICAL TERRORISTS WHO TRIED TO BLOW UP THE PENTAGON AND KILLED POLICE back in the day when it was the "in" thing to do to COMMIT ACTS OF TREASON AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

and this thing with jerry wright... you know, the black theology racist who hates america and wants god to damn it. who says he's a Christian, yet teaches that there are other ways to heaven other than through CHRIST.

hate to tell him, but he's preaching a false doctrine, and he can't really call himself a true christian if he doesn't believe that Jesus Christ IS the way to heaven. isn't that what true Christianity is all about? oh, and he teaches that jesus is black, when we all know just by reading the Bible that Jesus was a Jew.

and what about that antisemite, black seperatist, "supress the whites" farakan? yeah, yet ANOTHER FRIEND OF nobama.

and what about CANADIAN OFFICIALS THAT OUTTED OBAMAS LIE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC ABOUT NAFTA?

and what about money that has been donated to his campaign from questionable foreign, middle eastern, supporters?

and why doesn't he release his records-- full medical , records from his association with bill aires at the university, tax records, ect. what is he hiding? after all, mccain release all his records.

and if mccain has too many properties, then should there be a limit on how much a person can earn and own if they work for it?

if so, then that is anti capitalism and anti american, and it is just good ole plain marxism. which is what obama really is.

he got a sweetheart deal on his multimillion dollar home from a convicted felon--
made millions off his books--
flys around in a gas guzzling airplane--

so, it's not ok for mccain/ actually, mccains wife, to own multiple properties-- and yet, it's ok for obama to live high off the hog while putting down rich people?

what about oprah and her billions?
what about pelosi and her billions?
what about barbara boxer and her millions?
what about all the other democrats who are wealthy?

if money is soooo evil... they why are they all filthy rich ?

guess its only evil if republicans, conservatives, and non dem/liberals have money huh?

the list is endless and it is tiring to try to point out the truth to people who are too blind to see it.

the bottom line about obama is that he is a LIAR. RACIST. ELITIST. SOCIALIST AT BEST, MARXIST AT WORST.  A DICTATOR WANNA BE. A TRAITER. A DECEIVER. A FALSE MESSIAH. did i mention LIAR?

and he's not too bright without a teleprompter now is he?

you want change?
he'll give you change all right-- the question is: are you ready for it?
you ready to dole out your hard earned money to lazy people who refuse to pull thier weight and work for it?
you ready for more 911's?
you ready for the immorality that will stem from liberal judges turning the truth into a lie and the lie into truth?
are you ready for the destruction of american from within?
are you ready to give up your freedoms?

it's funny-- you resent Christians, true Christians, and demand that the word GOD and thier 10 commandemnts be removed , citing "seperation of church and state"....

and yet, you want a mere MAN telling you what to do, how to live your life, how much you can earn, how much you have to pay in taxes, telling you you have to volunteer your time, telling you lie after lie, hiding his true leftist colors...

what fools to denounce the real God and follow a mere man who acts like he is god.

GOD help this country. God said he would bring down the proud and raise up the humble... i sure hope God stays true to his word and brings down the arrogant nobama, before he destroys this nation and its fiber from within.

bumper sticker:

"bye-obama"

first of all, "joe"- the "quote" you make note of...as hannity did the other day as well- he attributed it to obama-  and you, like his many equally ignorant followers, went right on and quoted hannity quoting this... except for one little detail:  obama did not say it.  in the book, obama was quoting from a sermon by Rev. Wright.
secondly, your spelling indicates that you did not get far beyond 6th grade, if that.  there are adult night schools available- i suggest that you might look into this.  once you are able to master english, you might pick up some reading material...you can start with the constitution, the bill of rights, - i want to to take special note in the constitution on article VI.
i am taking a great leap here in assuming that you are, in fact, an adult. 
i could be wrong.

"and if mccain has too many properties, then should there be a limit on how much a person can earn and own if they work for it?"-joe

No, Joe........it just shows that like Bush Jr., he's no average Joe.

"COMMIT ACTS OF TREASON AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRY."  uh, yeah, like  concocting the evidence to go to war in Iraq so KBR can bring in those record profits?   Yeah, that's treason, and i'd love to put the bullet in Dick's head(after a fair trial though).........

But the "white man's greed" being referred to is the practice of collecting and transporting human beings for sale as slaves......and i agree with the Reverend.
"listen, you heads of Jacob and rulers of the house of Israel!
Should you not know justice?  -You who hate God and love evil.
And tear the skin off my people, and the flesh off their bones."-Micah3:1-2
Sounds like the bullwhip cracking, huh?

toe,
i have 7 years of college and an IQ higher than your friends and family combined, but thanks anyway for your kind words. i didn't bother spell checking before submitting. BIG DEAL. so what?  that's because i was typing out my thoughts quickly and didn't give a shit about being called names by a hating liberal such as yourself who thrives on putting others down and calling them names... as tho that's really going to hurt a person and make them stop speaking the truth.

if you want to insult my spelling and call me names, go right ahead. you just show your true colors as the hating liberal that i just called you. you guys can sure dish it out all right, but you can't take the truth when it's staring you in the face. liberals are whiners.. like little kids who throw tantrums until they get thier own way.

obama is still all the things i called him in the other email... oh, yeah, i forgot to add that he thinks having a baby is a "punishment" and not a BLESSING like the REAL GOD calls it. and he thinks its a "burden" to call in another doctor to try to save the life of the aborted baby, who lived through the abortion. i believe they call it INFANTICIDE. so you can add MURDERER onto the list as well.

so he quoted good ole anti american jerry wright huh?
you mean the guy who's preachings and teachings he sat under for 20 years and didn't hear what the guy was preaching about? so his church going was just for show then huh? all for political gain? bullshit. he knew what jerry was teaching. that kind of shit makes people angry and mean and hateful... like michelle obama. who, incidentally, will still look like a man in drag no matter how many makeovers she gets.

oh, and let me not forget "57 states"... must have been referring to the 57 muslim states. and if the poor baby was sooo tired and he made a mistake... then the same consideration should apply to McCain who also made a few slips himself. but no, if mccain slips, you haters harp on his age and call him senile.

John McCain suffered and bled for his country.

what did obama do? nothing. he wouldn't even put his hand over his heart during the  pledge of allegiance to his own country . and the only reason he started wearing the flag pin was because he was advised to.

the guy is a damn flip flopper if i ever saw one.

if he is blaming his mistakes on being too tired from campaigning, then how can we trust that he will be in top shape as leader of the free world? 

obama is a puppet. if he isn't told what to say, he has to think way too hard to fight off showing his true leftist  colors. he won't debate McCain in any townhall meetings because he knows he will lose sorely. and if he does agree and actually follow through with the debates... rest assured he's been told what to say and how to respond.

he showed how shallow and empty he really is during the rick warren forum. "above his pay grade" to give a simple straight answer. bullshit. bullshit. bullshit.

you can't be a TRUE christian and be ok with aborting babies. and be ok with letting them die after they are born alive after the failed abortion. you can't propogate same sex marriage when God himself says marriage is between a man and a woman.

he can say Christ is his redeemer, but WHICH CHRIST? THE FALST BLACK CHRIST THAT JERRY TAUGHT HIM ABOUT? the black seperatist christ who wants to subdue the whites? screw that. even the apostle paul warns christians about "another jesus". the other jesus who doesn't have any power to save. the other jesus that man made up and twists the words of the bible to suit thier own wills.

he's a wolf in sheeps clothing and if he isn't the freaking antichrist himself, he sure is being used by the devil to propogate his will.
along with the slime from under the rock bitch pelosi.

hate begets hate. the hate that liberals have toward others who they think are less superior to themselves deserves to be hated in return.

call me all the names you like, make fun of my grammar and spelling all you like... but it still doesn't change the truth about nobama and all you arrogant libs.

david walters,
let's see, where should we start?

how about with your death threat:

your quote:

"Yeah, that's treason, and i'd love to put the bullet in Dick's head(after a fair trial though)........."

ok, this can be reported to the FBI/CIA/SECRET SERVICE as a clear threat against the VICE PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

i'll just go ahead and pass this along to my friends at the secret service.
you do know that they have to investigate all such threats don't you?
yeah, YOU have to PROVE that you were "just kidding". good luck buddy.
and yes, i DO indeed have friends in the secret service.

and incidentally, you might want to pick up the new book about good old dick and become enlightened a little about who the man really is isntead of listening to who the libs tell you he is .

DID YOU KNOW THAT HE GIVES MORE THAN HALF HIS INCOME TO CHARITY?

obama gave, what? 2-3 percent?

dave walters,

your buddy, "the US of KKKA" jerry wright, seems to quote scripture all right, but he sure does tend to use it to rile up the listeners and keep that old hate for whites alive.

slavery is dead in this country, so why keep it alive?

Christians are specifically told to let go of the past and strive forward for the mark of the higher calling. so why doesn't jerry let it go and live in the present and teach about the real Jesus and what he did for humanity-- white, black, yellow, purple, green whatever the hell color you are- on that cross. THAT'S THE CRUX OF CHRISTIANITY. but jerrry is out there talking about the "other fold", teaching false doctrines about more ways to heaven for non believers. what the ....?

you know, God did say that there would be "ministers of righteousness", angels of light, and doctrines of devils. and jerry seems to fit all three. if obama is truly naive, and he sat under that teaching for all those years and was fed all those lies, then sure he is going to see things the way he was TAUGHT them. and it might actually surprise you to know that i pray for his eyes of understanding to be opened. so that he sees the true Christ and sees that it's not ok for real Christians to support abortion or infanticide.

how can anyone who knows the bible, and who knows the real Christ call a baby a "punishment", a "mistake", and say it's ok to kill the baby before its born? and worse still, that it's ok to let it die without giving it medical aid if it survives a botched abortion? he said it would be a "burden" to call in another doctor to aid the baby.

what kind of a christian can sleep at night in peace when that is sooo against the TRUE CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS?

and how can any true christian support such a man to lead this nation?
no true christian i know can even think about being "ok" with abortion and infanticide. not one.

just wondering...
why did they take off the links on obama's website to the black panthers?
why does he attrack the extremists?
why do you suppose they support him? and why do you suppose the link would have been there, and then been taken off once it was brought to the attention of the public on larger scale?


"No, Joe........it just shows that like Bush Jr., he's no average Joe."

no average joe... as in having more money than the rest of us?
ok, fine. he earned it.

and so did pelosi. and boxer. and howard dean. and all the rest of the filthy rich libs and dems. do you know who dean's father was and how he made his fortune? how any of them made thier fortunes?

viva la capitalism.

so it's ok for them to pursue riches, so they can get ahead and then lord themselves over us and tell us not to pursue money?
its ok for liberals and democrats to have money, but not for conservatives and republicans?

WHAT HYPOCRITES!

t boone pickens plan for natural gas.... nancy pelosi invested thousands into it. Well, no wonder she doesn't want us to drill. pickens, pelosi and all the rest of the libs who support alternative fuel sources sure stand to make even more money off of it. but that's ok , huh?

WHO IN THIER RIGHT MINDS WOULD NOT LET US DRILL OUR OWN SHORES FOR OIL THAT WOULD HELP US TO BECOME INDEPENDENT FROM THE IDIOTS WE BUY IT OFF OF-- YOU KNOW, THE ONES WHO HATE US AND WANT TO DESTROY US AND ISRAEL--

AND YET, LET CHINA COME IN AND DRILL OFF OF OUR SHORES INSTEAD.

PELOSI IS ACTUALLY INTERFERING WITH NATIONAL SECURITY.

save the environment my ass. it's not ok for us to drill because of pollution, but it would be ok for china, cuba, and russia and whoever else wants to to drill off the same spots? pollution is pollution, no matter who causes it. so why not hold them accountable for all the wonderful pollution they contribute to "global warming".

naw. just hate on the americans, its the "in" thing to do. hate your own country.



"But the "white man's greed" being referred to is the practice of collecting and transporting human beings for sale as slaves......and i agree with the Reverend.
"listen, you heads of Jacob and rulers of the house of Israel!
Should you not know justice? -You who hate God and love evil.
And tear the skin off my people, and the flesh off their bones."-Micah3:1-2
Sounds like the bullwhip cracking, huh?"

actually, he is talking to jacob and the rulers of the house of israel. with that said, it actually sounds like flying jets into our buildings and burning off the skin off thier bones with burning jet fuel.


does slavery still exist in the US today?   no.

if you read paul's epistles, slavery existed back then as well. the black people are not the only, nor original slaves. the jews were exploited in egypt long before america was even formed.
it has existed for centuries, between many different races. paul instructs slaves how to deal with thier owners/masters, whatever you want to call them. philemon was sent back to his onwer/master. THE INSTRUCTION WAS NOT TO SUBDUE, OR OVERTHROW, THE RACE of the onwers/masters. IT DID NOT PREACH HATRED. IT DIDN'T ENCOURGE EVIL.

NO, I DON'T CONDONE IT. i hate what is being done to poor people around the world where it is still practiced. but why do people still act like it exists in this country, when it is clear that other countries today still practice it and we don't?

if you're a christian, then follow what you are told and live in today and let go of the past.

so why are groups still pumping hatred into black peoples minds against the whites of today?

i don't get it?


if you want to believe that a reason was fabricated to go to war in iraq for profits.. then believe what you want. the truth WILL come out at God's judgment.

men had the intelligence and capcity to make a business out of oil. they do all the work, they should reep the profits.
anyone who does the work should reep the profits off of thier own labor.

the government makes 2-3 times more off the oil than the oil companies do, yet the oil companies do all the work, and take all the blame of being greedy.

how fair is that? doesnt it make someone who profits off of other peoples labors... lazy... to say the least?


obama's great grandfather was part of standard oil. i believe it is known as exxon today? mobile oil? well, one of the biggies. he ain't so "clean" after all, huh?

OBAMA  =  Openly - Bigoted - Antiamerican - Muslim - Apologist!

Toe, attacking Joe for spelling when you don't punctuate or capitalize any of your comments correctly? I'm certainly not perfect in that regard, but let he who is without grammatical sin cast the first stone. 


This is not to say I agree with Joe's attacks on Obama as, for the most part, I don't. Personally, I think Obama is a decent enough guy (a typical politician wanting to claim he's not a typical politician, but don't they all?), but the Democrats don't get it on issues like taxes and domestic energy and I don't think they ever will, so I vote against 'em. I'm certainly not voting for McCain, from whom I kind of fear Nixonian liberalism--although he does seem to be anti-pork, which might suggest he won't expand the government nine ways to Sunday, in the fashions of LBJ, Nixon and Dubya. But I will technically be casting a vote for McCain, in order to have my vote against the Democrats count. 


Ah, politics.

Joe,
From Matthew 23:23,  "You scholars and Pharisees, you IMPOSTORS!  Damn you!  You pay tithes on mint and dill and cumin too, but you ignore the really important matters of the Law such as JUSTICE, MERCY and TRUST. You should have attended to the last without ignoring the first." 

This is what Jesus taught us too, and you can't be a Christian and turn your back on the less fortunate either.   It seems to me a bit hypocritical to worry about unborn so much and ignore them once they're born, such as providing them with proper health care, and a livin wage for the parent.

But the "white man's greed" being referred to is the practice of collecting and transporting human beings for sale as slaves



Did Obama correct the Rev, and point out that slavery has been practiced by all ethnicities all over the world, and the greedy white men of the West are only unique in having worked so hard to end slavery as a practice, to suggest that it was bad? To not accept that slavery was the way of the world? To point out that the Portuguese were much bigger slave traders than any European nation (or America)? To point out the long and horrible traditions of slavery in the Muslim world? China? Maylasia? India? Oh, and Africa? That Brazil had (and worked to death) more slaves than were ever in America by several times?


That the picture of white guys going over to Africa and throwing nets over black people to capture slaves is false--that those folks were sold, by their also black leaders, to the white guys? Were the white guys the only greedy party in that transaction, not the tribal leaders selling out their own people (or, to be fair, prisoners taken during war with other tribes, so technically not their own people but still, people of their own race). 


Or did he mention with was white British evangelicals who worked, and sacrificed, to end slavery worldwide? Those "greedy white people" put their blood and treasure behind the cause of ending global slavery, much to the shock and dismay of the non-white leaders of African and South American nations that made a great deal of money from the slave trade, at the time. Or the white people in America who gave everything, fought brothers and fathers, to end slavery before, during and after the Civil War? What about those people and their "white greed"?


Just curious. I realize Obama didn't say it, but since he commented on it . . . .I wonder if he actually illuminated the passage with some corrective facts.

It seems to me a bit hypocritical to worry about unborn so much and ignore them once they're born,



This is a common refrain on the left--a shibboleth, if you will--and is regurgitated as a self-evident truth, but it really isn't. While, yes, some pro-life groups focus exclusively on preventing abortions (which can, and often does, include pre- and post-natal care, adoption assistance, access to healthcare and formula and so on), Christian groups that are pro-life, and individuals that are pro-life, spend a great deal of time on efforts to help children and parents and people generally, with education drives, food drives, assistance to the elderly, the indigent, the disabled. There have been numerous church programs to help new parents (almost every church in the country offer some form of help for new parents, and if they don't have anything specific, they will come together to help a new parent in need--guaranteed). The folks who are worried about the unborn are worried about the born, too. They do it with their time, with their money, and with their prayers. The idea that they don't is not rational, and considered proven by the fact that there are folks who don't avail themselves of the aid that is available to them, or because there are parents who don't take care of their kids. Most of the people concerned about abortion are concerned about the born, because it is a package deal. You may disagree with them--I've known liberals who basically thought abortion was fine, up until the umbilical cord was cut--but to suggest they are obsessed with preventing abortions but willing to abandon a young mother and her toddler because gestation is over is not serious, because it's not true, and is demonstrably not the case. Maybe some anti-abortion politicians never do much for new mothers or adopt a kid, but that's a very small amount of the pro-life community. Most of those folks care a lot about kids, of all ages. From newly conceived to newly born to ready-to-walk to ready-for-school to ready-for-college.

pev your ignorant post is not even worth a reply.

joe, sounds like your are clinging to your god and guns.  now tell me that's not true.
you see joe, you exemplify this with your foaming at the mouth, spouting religion in defense of your non-factual list of items regarding obama. joe,  just because hannity repeats something over and over again, joe, does not make it true...  your repetition of the "punishment" and "infanticide" lie is a prime example of this.  your personal religious beliefs are your own.  they are not mine.  i will not have laws created based upon YOUR religious beliefs.  obama answered the question and gave his personal thoughts regarding the complex question of when life begins as any thinking person would do-  mc cain knew the applause lines and went for them every single time at the saddleback forum.  finding snappy answers to complex questions may gather laughs- but they also start wars.
the problem with religious fanatics such as yourself is that you feel you can justify hate in the name of religion.  how do you find this better than ..oh, let's say "islamic extremists".  you cannot tolerate views other than your own and will take immoral and illegal actions to maintain them.
a word from the other side of the fence, joe- from people like myself who don't cling to fairy tales and follow religious hypocrites who claim to be "christian" yet their words and deeds prove otherwise.  you fear people who think on their own.  you cannot understand how a person can have any morals without a belief in your bible telling me what to do and think.  you are among the many willfully ignorant that blindly accept irrational thought.  you claim to have had some years of advanced schooling, yet you seem to have no understanding of cause and effect.  you display an avid aversion for facts.  one cannot expect honest results from  a case study or an attempt to prove a theory proposed by using flawed information as you have done over and over in both of your posts.

Kevin,
The phrase "white man's greed" must really bother you, considering the way you try to rationalize it.........the point is, our economic system was based upon the collection and utilization of Africans as a means of production.  The sale of the slave and the labors of the slaves ALL contributed to the expansion of the economy of this country.  The blame is not on the "Tribal Leaders" who participated, but on the shareholders who hired the ships to the shore of West Africa.  Hence "White Man's Greed".  Sorry if this fact offends you.
And after almost 150 years, our fellow citizens of African descent are still lagging behind in terms of wealth.......i wonder why that is?

kevin- i do not punctuate by choice ...not because i do not know the difference between their and there or too and to like some here.
furthermore, you stated that democrats don't get it on taxes and domestic energy- and by implication say obama is among this thinking.  first, if you are making over $250,000, under obama's STATED items, it's possible that your taxes would see an increase.  if you are UNDER this income level you would not.  this constant misrepresentation of obama's stated proposal is constantly put out by people like you who run with misinformation and make decisions based upon lies.
secondly, obama has - long before mc cain even decided that there were, in fact, alternate forms of energy available, obama has insisted that we need to explore alternate forms of energy to reduce and eventually eliminate dependence upon foreign oil.  obama has included a compromise that would include an agreement to off-shore drilling with major restrictions in play.
obama (among many other intelligent people) has also acknowledged that there are over 9 million acres of leased off-shore sites owned by the oil companies that they are NOT presently drilling.  the oil companies have the freedom and ability to explore these areas NOW yet they do not. 
this anti-pork noise is just that. noise. 
understand this:  a representative from your state and your district is placed in washington to represent you, your interests, your city, your state, your roads, your schools, your everything.  any representative that is seen as doing nothing for their state is quickly removed.  there is a big difference between legislation proposed budgeting monies for the needs of their home state- and some rubbish that gets funding based upon special interest groups whose interest is in lining their personal pockets at the expense of the american tax dollar (such as the failed privitization projects already in play, or the "bridge to nowhere").  the "pork" spending halt or cut back would not even put a dent in fixing what is at the base of the money issues.  money issues come from a simple problem of basic math:  you cannot spend money you do not have.  unfortunately bush never learned this and has brought this nation to it's knees financially with the assistance of a republican controlled congress. 
at the expense of the american people, a republican dominated congress and a president  has let OUR money trickle from his hands like sand on the beach ... billions and billions of our tax dollars down an empty hole- with little accountability or oversight.  billions of dollars actually lost- no one knows where it went.  actually LOST. MISSING.
there are fundamental problems here.  it has nothing to do with flag pins and nothing to do with who has what religion.  we have a financial mess because we have had a leadership problem.  both in congress and in the white house.  we have an energy problem because we have "oil men" in the white house looking out for their own best interests and those of their friends instead of the current and future needs of this country.  we have a vice president who negotiated the energy policy behind closed doors with the oil companies!!  we have had 7+ years of deceit and smoke and mirrors.  we have had 7+ years of seeing people that disagreed with this administration marginalized,  ridiculed, and called "un-american".  
mc cain is every bit of bush - dangerous because he is so inept on economic matters that he relies on information from those very people who brought us to where we are today.  dangerous on foreign matters because his answer to everything is a threat to bring in the guns.  we don't need another war monger.

Joe,
"......how about with your death threat....."
isn't the death penalty allowed in treason cases?
Yes, i would like to be the lawful executioner of Dick.....what could be wrong with that?
So go ahead and report me to the secret service.....Sadly for this once great nation, i don't think Dick will ever stand trial for his crimes
Even if he did give money to charities, it does not absolve him of the crimes he is likely to have committed.....
But Joe, i really doubt there is much you could teach me about christianity...
the ministry of Jesus was focused on the poor and the injustice of those in power, not the insanity cooked up by the Council of Nicaea.

The phrase "white man's greed" must really bother you, considering the way you try to rationalize it.........

"Wow, that must really bother you" is the first rhetorical refuge of a scoundrel. Yeah, it bugs me, because it's stupid and wrong. I don't care for lies, I don't care for stupidity . . . combine them into one pithy phrase and, yes, it gets under my skin. Ought to bother you, too.

the point is, our economic system was based upon the collection and utilization of Africans as a means of production.

The purchase of, you mean. The actual collection was done by their fellow Africans.

Our economic system was not based upon slavery, the economic system of certain powerful financial interests and political powers was based upon slavery. The majority of Americans did not own slaves. Yet most of them had to do something to say alive. Blacksmiths in New Hampshire owed their trade to slavery?

And, at the time, most economic systems in the world, as they were, had a much greater dependence upon slavery than ours. If you don't want to be accurate for the sake of making an ideological point, that's awesome. I think it's a case of historical context becoming so muddied that it requires clarification.

The blame is not on the "Tribal Leaders" who participated, but on the shareholders who hired the ships to the shore of West Africa.

You don't think the folks in Africa selling their own people (or those of other enemy tribes) have any blame? Sure, the shareholders and the shipmasters and the slaveowners all shared a piece of it, but come on.

Sorry if this fact offends you.

I'm sorry, I think that's projection on your part. Apparently, the facts (or, at least, facts in a more fully realized historical context) offend you.

And after almost 150 years, our fellow citizens of African descent are still lagging behind in terms of wealth.......i wonder why that is?

Hey, I put the blame for that squarely where it belongs: white liberals.

The white man is still keeping the brothers down.

toe:

kevin- i do not punctuate by choice ...not because i do not know the difference between their and there or too and to like some here.

Yet your posts are sometimes quasi-unreadable because you don't punctuate, captalize, or make normal paragraph breaks. Hey, if that's your thing, then go ahead. But I'll pick accidental typos and the occasional misspeak over intentionally making what you're writing look like crap any day of the weak.

Seriously, you do that on purpose?

furthermore, you stated that democrats don't get it on taxes and domestic energy- and by implication say obama is among this thinking. 

Even if he's not, I vote against the party generally. He'd have to really exceptional to break out of that, for me.

first, if you are making over $250,000, under obama's STATED items, it's possible that your taxes would see an increase.  if you are UNDER this income level you would not. 

First, I don't want to increase taxes on the wealthy. Money in the economy makes it work. Rich people make the economy work and I don't think class envy is a sound basis for social policy and, frankly, tax revenues tend to rise with reduced tax rates because the increased economic activity.

While I'm well under $250k in income, I also don't believe Obama is going to cut my taxes. Bill Clinton said he was going to cut my taxes but . . . aw, look, he tried as hard as he could, but he just couldn't do it. As it turned out. But he could raise taxes on my employer and slow down wage hikes. That was fun. And I'm counting on Obama to have to change his tactics to deal with "stark realities" is a similar fashion. Maybe I'm wrong. If he wins, I certainly hope I am.

obama (among many other intelligent people) has also acknowledged that there are over 9 million acres of leased off-shore sites owned by the oil companies that they are NOT presently drilling.  the oil companies have the freedom and ability to explore these areas NOW yet they do not

Except they are. And they have to lease land to explore, which means a lot of the leases will never be drilled--because, as it turns out, there's no oil that's economically feasible that can be found. If there is, they have to get permits to drill, which generally get held up until the leases expire. Or, tend to get held up enough so that there a 9 million acres of leased off-shore sites that can't be drilled. And, in some cases, those leases were taken before moratoriums on off-shore drilling were passed, making them useless to the oil companies. And so on.

I don't think McCain really "gets it" on domestic energy, either, he just sees a political opportunity. But the Democrats definitely don't, from my point of view, so I'm going to vote against them. 

unfortunately bush never learned this and has brought this nation to it's knees financially with the assistance of a republican controlled congress. 

Bush was far too much of a big government "conservative" for my tastes. Department of Homeland Security? Medicare Part D? No Child Left Behind? Alas, only the Libertarians offer a real alternative, and they aren't going to win. So I vote against the Democrats.

a republican dominated congress and a president  has let OUR money trickle from his hands like sand on the beach ... billions and billions of our tax dollars down an empty hole- with little accountability or oversight.  billions of dollars actually lost- no one knows where it went.  actually LOST. MISSING.

This has happened for almost a hundred years. It happened all through forty years of Democrat control of congress. It has happened through Democrat and Republican administrations alike. I'd love to see it addressed. Apparently, much of it never will, due to the money being appropriated for classified or clandestine purposes, but certainly much of that money is disappearing and going into different pockets (the House Bank was once a tool of that, and Democrats and Republicans alike dipped deeply).

I don't like it any more than you, but if you think that this is something new, you are incorrect. Trillions of dollars have disappeared over the years, and nobody knows where they are. And nobody gets held accountable. It also happens on the state and local level, all the time--politicians have a hard time keeping track of money, as it turns out.

I don't care for McCain. I'm still voting for him, though, but I can see your argument, generally. Once the Democrats stop wanting to raise taxes every time they are elected--period--I'll think about changing my party-line vote. Until then . . . nah. If they wanted to drill in ANWR, maybe. Not as a practical benefit, but as a "maverick" choice. But . . . ain't going to happen. Neither thing will happen. Nor will Obama's middle class tax cut. That's going to disappear, just like Clinton's did from his '92 campaign.

Heh. "Day of the weak". I think that must have been Fruedian, as I did not intentionally misspell "day of the week" to make a point. Ooops.

Wow lots of fun going on in here. Just a quick point for the Anti home folks (That's you Toe and David).

 Last time I checked there is no a crime in owning homes. The thing that makes me laugh about you liberals, is that you take people who have succeeded at living the American dream, people who we should all aspire to be. Yes out of what ever discourse you have for these people, you hold them out to be bad people. Sorry last time I checked it is not a bad thing to chase the American Dream and be successful at it.

  Now stealing from the rich and giving to the poor on the other hand, that is shameful, and it needs to be stopped. The Government should not be in the business of regulating the wealth of individuals. or corporations.  These are defining rights in our free nation, not crimes as the liberals would want us all to believe.


  Now stealling from the rich and giving to the poor on the other hand, that is shamful, and it needs to be stopped. The Government should not be in the business of regulating the wealth of individuals. or corporations.  These are defining rights in our free nation, not crimes as the librals would want us all to believe.

So Kevin,
What the hell was i thinkin'?
"The purchase of, you mean. The actual collection was done by their fellow Africans......."
I mean, wow, it's all OK then, right?  So i'll keep that in mind.......slavery is ok as long as you purchase them instead of collecting them.....
And yeah, i'm sure the slave trade ONLY profited a few,huh?
Wow, i apologize for bein' SO stupid!

I mean, wow, it's all OK then, right?  So i'll keep that in mind.......slavery is ok as long as you purchase them instead of collecting them.....

Seriously? You think that's what I was saying. Come on, David.
No, the point is, words mean things, particularly in areas where revisionist history is rampant. White guys running around Africa throwing nets over Africans to make slaves of them just didn't happen. It's a specific, revisionist history designed to encourage race divisions and make slavery a black/white issue only, which it was not at the time.

Wow, i apologize for bein' SO stupid!

Well, since you apologized.

Seriously, slavery was an abomination--an abomination practiced for thousands of years, by every pre-Western culture, and still practiced in areas of the world today, especially in the international sex trade. And it is an abomination. Was that somehow unclear? Did you seriously think I was advocating for slavery? Good golly.

I bet the word "Nazi" comes up in your political debates fairly regularly, doesn't it?

Sheesh.

Kevin,
"I bet the word "Nazi" comes up in your political debates fairly regularly, doesn't it?"
It might, but not for the reason's you'd think.  But that's another story.

The point is, it's simply amusing to read this kind of rationalization.
"Blacksmiths in New Hampshire owed their trade to slavery?"  The money made from slavery was not just centered on plantation owners, it involved the shipping industry also, did it not(those damn'd yankee traders)?
And the profits invested from this trade DID IT NOT?

But thank you for clarifying yourself on the abomination of slavery, past&present.  It's not that i thought you advocated slavery, it's just that you were rationalizing away the rich part that trade did to make this country rich and powerful.  Make no mistake about it.......many people around the world understand our history better that we do.

BTW,  Have you ever read
"Bury my heart at Wounded Knee"?

Make no mistake about it.......many people around the world understand our history better that we do.

Perhaps. When I hear folks from other parts of the world talk about our country, I'm not so sure. I certainly here a lot of them get a lot of things wrong, in the service to their anger at America or general victimhood. But, I admit, this is not always the case.

it's just that you were rationalizing away the rich part that trade did to make this country rich and powerful. 

I'm not just rationalizing it away, I just think such things should (a) be put in context and, frankly, (b) there's a lot of evidence that our foolish and abominable preservation of slavery held us back economically. Our economic growth in the decades after slavery was certainly much more robust than before slavery, and even the south would have rebounded--and probably surpassed previous economic growth much earlier--had it not done so much damage and spent so much blood and treasure on the war, and had relations with the north not been so strained afterwards (for various reasons). But I consider slavery not only a moral evil, but an economic evil--and I think it is clear that the world is better not only morally, but economically, for abandoning slavery. And where it has not, compare those nations GDP with ours. Or per capita output. And so on.

Slavery is a terrible way to produce economic output. And it shows. Compare the GDP of the north to the south during slavery. The immediate results of the end of slavery were economically deleterious, especially to the south, although it wouldn't have been as bad in the north or south had the south not seceded, etc., etc. Just as today, slave-wages to illegal immigrants is a terrible way to produce economic output for the market overall, yet the folks who benefit from it are loathe to give it up. Sort of like heroin being a bad way to have a good time. There may be a benefit, but it's the negative consequences that really count, viewed from a distance.

And I only support reparations if there's going to a payment for folks whose great-great-great grandparents were indentured servants. Hey, I want my check. ;)

BTW,  Have you ever read
"Bury my heart at Wounded Knee"?

It's been years. I was a high school liberal, at the time.

"And I only support reparations if there's going to a payment for folks whose great-great-great grandparents were indentured servants."
-Check for what?  indenturered servants got their freedom, so lets not try to equate the two.......slavery was forever, for them as well as their children.
So, the Rev. Wright has a point, there are a "few" things about our great nation that brings us shame from our past and our present.  Instead of chest thumping USA #1 BullShit......let's fix this thing!

Check for what?  indenturered servants got their freedom, so lets not try to equate the two.......slavery was forever, for them as well as their children.


Suffering is suffering. Are you trying to minimize the suffering of my great-great-great-grandparents?


Instead of chest thumping USA #1 BullShit......let's fix this thing!



I prefer the chest thumping. USA#1!


How do you fix this thing? Reparations? Paid out in what amounts and how? Or something else?

On the Flip Side I wonder what Ronald Reagan would say about a Mormon becoming President if McCain kick the bucket?

Reagan would forwarded the cause of true Christian values by   once placing The Bible in the Arms for Contras scandal inside the Iranian shipment

What would he say to a cult leader becoming president of the USA, he will be rolling over in his grave

David Walters  you said "".....Victory in Iraq is hardly failed foreign policy."

You sound like McCain

When you wage a war the hard reality is you do it to advance your interest,
which is the real reason the "surge" have failed because before the "surge" we were at 3000 combat troops Killed, Now we are at 4100 and still no reconciliation, Oil Sharing Laws and worst of all the Iranian have more influence over the Iraqi Government then we do.
Meaning we have no ally on the "War on Terror", didn’t the Pawn Of Satan President Bush claim we would be gaining a ally by Invading Iraq?
And John McCain says the surge is a success? (lol)
Do a Google search of the MAY 15th Prophecy and you will see what will happen next?

Wow this is really getting out of hand, we now are going to see how Obama plans to spend our money, on expensive venues and sets.... You think we are in debt now wait and see what he does if he gets in office.  First on his list will be remodel the White House then new Air-Force 1 , new limo's and so on...  


If your tied of all this you need to take brake and check out ShootTheLiberals.com they have a new game call Freezer Burn where you use specially designed chemically enhanced projectiles which will change mental imbalance in Liberals which prevents them from understanding logic.  IT GREAT FUN

IF WE WERE'NT IN IRAQ, THEN IRAN WOULD BE.
HOW MUCH WOULD WE BE PAYING FOR A OIL THEN.

THE FINANCIAL TROUBLES WE ARE EXPERIENCING IN OUR COUNTRY IS SOLVAABLE IF WE JUST LOOKED UNDER OUR FEET.

INSTEAD OF SENDING $ 700,000.000.000.00 "OVER THERE", WE WOULD HAVE THAT $ 700,000.000.000.00 TO "SPEND HERE"

DRILL, HERE, AND DRILL NOW.

Gary:
with 3% of the proven reserves and 25% of the consumption......what part of that equation don't you understand?