A Proclamation to American Conservatives

January 22nd, 2009 Billy Hallowell

History was made this week when Barack Obama was inaugurated to serve as the nation’s first African American president. Obama’s historic electoral victory showcases the nation’s move beyond the stigmatization and segregation that existed just sixty years ago. It is a time of reflection not only for a country that has made significant sociopolitical progression, but also for a subset of the nation that has suffered two consecutive electoral losses – the American conservative.

It can be said without a doubt that many conservatives are still disheartened by the results of the 2008 election. But, as President Obama settles into the White House and begins to govern, our disillusionment cannot overtake us. In 2000 and 2004, we felt a high level of political efficacy as our candidate elevated to serve in the nation’s highest office. Today, this same efficacy is being experienced by American liberals, as Obama embodies the values and virtues this constituency embraces. Though these values often conflict with the notions we hold dear, we are all Americans and no matter how disappointed we are, we must endure.

It would clearly be a blind disservice to history and to this great nation to ignore the historical connotation of Obama’s victory. Ignorance to the historical relevancy of this time is, indeed, (and rightfully) hard to find. Most conservatives are, despite the sting that has come with suffering major defeat in recent elections, prepared to give President Obama the respect that American liberals ardently refused to give to President George W. Bush.

Surely we feel disheartened and anxious as we await the policy maneuvers and advances that are slated to violate our personal values and conservative character, but we cannot allow a difference of ideals to distract us from reformation. Instead of focusing our energies on how horrific we think Obama to be, we must work strenuously to showcase the relevancy of our policies and the potential results of our legislative potentialities.

In the end, the American conservative, though contemporarily subjugated at the polls and in the realm of ideological policy influence, has the advantage. It is our values that work to hold the fabrics of society together; it is our conscious that collectively seeks to bolster America’s most treasured ingenuities. Though we are underrepresented in the near-term, we are not forgotten.

As liberals celebrate their recent victory, we should be thankful for an opportunity to break free from the corruption and distractions that have permeated our party over the past decade. Now is the time to look beyond what has already passed and to focus on refining policy points, bringing the party together and harvesting the young leaders who will, in turn, assist America in sustaining and advancing her global position.

While American liberals have showcased their extreme excitement and awe over Obama’s win, the most inspirational result – aside from the social barriers that our new president has broken, of course — has been the character, spirit and resilience of American conservatives. As we struggle to understand the devastating losses we suffered in the Congressional midterm of 2006 and in the subsequent presidential race of 2008, we remain hopeful and confident that our nation – and political presence — will rebound.

Many of us, including former Republican vice-presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, have wished Obama well. When asked by Glen Beck this week if she considered Barack Obama her president, Palin replied, “Absolutely. Yes, he is. We are all Americans and united we stand.” As can be easily recalled, the left’s often harsh attacks against President Bush have never been particularly fortuitous. As per the New York Times:

In January 2001, when the country was divided over a disputed presidential election, the newest development was security checkpoints along the parade route on Pennsylvania Avenue, from the Capitol to the White House, to minimize the ability of protesters to disrupt the procession. None did, although several people threw eggs and debris at Mr. Bush’s limousine as it left the Capitol grounds.

As conservatives, there is no greater or more patriotic service we can do for our nation than to wish our new president well as he forges ahead into a mountainous terrain. Make no mistake: This is not to say that we should advocate ignorance when processing or addressing Obama’s often radical ideals; rather, as conservative Americans, we should come together to address the issues that are hampering our nation’s progress using clear and rational means. After all, it is in our best interest for Obama to reach some level of success while in office.

Instead of attacking Obama’s presidential vehicle with eggs and tomatoes, let’s prepare our arguments logically and present them with zest; let’s ensure that we support our president to the highest degree possible, while working to ensure our voices are heard. The stage has already been set, but the play is yet to be written.

The jeers that President Bush received this week when he walked onto the inaugural stage served as a confirmation and a distinct reminder of the following ideal: The American conservative must patriotically reject concentrating our efforts on pointless acts of vilification. We must rise to the occasion. We must reject the “not my president” mantra that so many liberals have held dear these past eight years. And finally — we must restructure our party, while making our voices heard loud and clear to the executive and legislative branches.

Surely, we disagree with Obama’s policy assessments, but, we can fight these progressions the fair and rational way: By rebuilding and mobilizing our base, and attempting to bring in leaders who seek true change in future electoral cycles. Whether we wanted him or not, Barack Obama is our president. Now, let’s get to work.

For more information on Billy Hallowell, go to http://www.williamhallowell.com.

Technorati Tags: Barack Obama,Inauguration,Conservative,Sarah Palin

Rating: 3.5/5 (11 votes cast)

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  • Erase this UC, and I swear you
    HOW MANY MEGASCANDALS YOU HAVE ALREADY?, AND TAKING YOUR TERROR HELP MASC AT ONCE?, YOUR TERRORISTS ARE BEING TREATED BETTER THAN ME,
    bho: USE YOUR COMUNIST BRAIN AT LIST ONE TIME, USA WILL PUNISH YOU OR ANYBODY WHO DARES HELP TERROR, CUT THEIR OIL POTENTIAL BEFORE IRAN, VENEZUELA, RUSIA (you erased that comment, a good one: COMPETE WITH THE ENEMY ON THEIR POWER "OIL" SOURCES, BE LOVED BY THE WORLD,
    DID YOU UNDERSTAND?, OR NEED ME TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU EVERYDAY, ERASE THIS WON"T CHANGE YOUR SELF-MADE IMAGE.
    before I write on you, about how you think my family is your punishment to me, and expect me to denounce them, and not all "my" political family, I've denounced along your acorn (I'm on your oppositors list for years), dade authorities (EXPL: GRAL ATTN c. fernandez rondell (dade still "reffering me as "crazy" Rush).
    Only authorities are the 1st responsible for the unfamous decades systematic 3rd world corruption on So. Fla, she still asking what terror logistics with ana montes?, castro spies on the Southern Command, carlos alvarez?, the arrested network builder castro agentfor 30 years networks AS "PSYCOLOGIST OF DADE POLICE.
    That explains also THE MENTALITY MADE ON CASTROLAND OF ANY AUTHORITY(and mayors).
    I'm tired of e-battles on townhall and urban cons., pluss, my comments are being erased, and lib bloggers fill out boring lib propaganda, to the conservative markets.
    About your succeed, Mr. President BHO, I remmeber you bunch, what I wrote about tyour self declarations on unilateral disarment of America, under the public megaglobal propaganda of terror states like the underebuilt deathstar u$$r’u$ (still REinvading countries, warfleets on Panama canal, cuba, venezuela during US election…
    no starwars, same 90’s proterror and anti-ARMY, Iran on nukes, Iraq, coyotes on America, the logistics pursuing me and my family, discrimination, homeless, back injuries, cold…And on the economy?, any single partner of you, you haven’t bring any Sara Palin to your task force, just keep your acorns growing and growing (I’ll blow them, as your machines gain and again, from the past any time)
    take your agents away from me, you'll learn to take your place on history, you already spoke on your politics, and already showed your intations on Gitmo, AT ONCE, thanks God I always say, for any terror helper shows how similar mentality terror helpers become with the same terror minds they help AS SEAN SAYS: FOR POLITICAL ACHIEVEMENTS, AND PERSONAL AMBI$ION$, thanks for made yourselves VISIBLE.
    But, the difference: well feeded, clothed and articulated terror he;pers unfortunately don't dare to blow theirselves, only the suicider terrorist fisical insurgents, or uniformed terror states "soldiers".
  • testing, testing, WILL UC HAVE





     


    A President of the USA, STIL systematic pursuing using denounced acorn$?:
    before I write on you, about how you think my family is your punishment to me, and expect me to denounce them, and not all "my" political family, I've denounced along your acorn (I'm on your oppositors list for years), dade authorities (EXPL: GRAL ATTN c. fernandez rondell (dade still "reffering me as "crazy" Rush).
    Only authorities are the 1st responsible for the unfamous decades systematic 3rd world corruption on So. Fla, she still asking what terror logistics with ana montes?, castro spies on the Southern Command, carlos alvarez?, the arrested network builder castro agentfor 30 years networks AS "PSYCOLOGIST OF DADE POLICE.
    That explains also THE MENTALITY MADE ON CASTROLAND OF ANY AUTHORITY(and mayors).
    I'm tired of e-battles on townhall and urban cons., pluss, my comments are being erased, and lib bloggers fill out boring lib propaganda, to the conservative markets.
    About your succeed, Mr. President BHO, I remmeber you bunch, what I wrote about tyour self declarations on unilateral disarment of America, under the public megaglobal propaganda of terror states like the underebuilt deathstar u$$r’u$ (still REinvading countries, warfleets on Panama canal, cuba, venezuela during US election)...


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    DeMolay writes:
    Friday, January, 23, 2009 9:45 AM


    Helloooo


    Reporters in the WH press corps room are only there for 1 reason: to ask questions. They are not there to "make friends" with the man they are SUPPOSED to be holding accountable to the people. In fact, any overtures to do so should be construed as a conflict of interest, if done by a reporter; or as an attempted social bribe, if done by ANY politician.

    Obama apparently made his "surprise" visit in an attempt to manipulate the press, plain and simple.
  • Joe
    Why do people who post here have such stupid names? They sound more like sentences. Can they fit them on their birth certificates, let alone their driver's licenses?

    And why do their comments look like the ramblings of mentally challenged patients?
  • ML Smith
    Journalism in America has reached new heights of stupidity; imagine the uncanny insight required to articulate the fact that Obama is the first African American president in history...gee, I didn't know that. And of course, print media jumped on the bandwagon, hyping Obama's election as a precursor to "change" in American politics and foreign policy.
     
    They have all missed the point by a country mile; apparently thinking that it will cost less to cover that mile now that this innovative, free thinking man of vision has ousted the status quo, managed for eight years by George W. Bush. What is the point that they all missed? Easy answer...Obama's victory was funded by the same people who have   trashed the ideals and beliefs upon which America was founded.
     
    The "experts" say that Obama's huge campaign fund came primarily from "the man in the street" simply because his contributions arrived in smaller parcels; implying that this was proof that the average American put up the greenbacks to get him elected. How much more naive can we get? Anyone with the know how and information to follow the paper trail of all of that money will find that Obama was funded by the biggest "Laundromat" scam in history. The dollars originated in one huge basket and were simply laundered in smaller batches. In comes one overflowing laundry basket and out goes a thousand smaller ones. A grand illusion - brilliantly conceived. Americans have yet to catch on to the fact their presidents are managed by those who manipulate the strings of our "puppet democracy." I use the term "brilliantly conceived" because industry recognized the illusory appeal of a black man running for office...an obvious underdog with intellect, "new ideas" and the ability to articulate a mirage. Americans saw "change" and that is exactly what they will get...nickels and dimes. In the end, the cloth imprinted with pictures of past presidents will wind up in the same pockets...pockets already over-stuffed with cash...pockets that belong to those who regard America as nothing more than a profit making machine.
     
    That Obama is black and therefore regarded as a reflection of the interests of common Americans is convenient camouflage. Sure, he will get a few token bills through Congress, leading the people to believe that the "messiah" has finally arrived. Nonetheless, a wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf and as a result, nothing of any real and lasting substance will change. Yet we are stupid enough to think that a black man will overturn the power of racist, corporate America...a pipe dream; and those with any insight at all will wonder what it is that we are smoking in that pipe.
     
    Barrack Obama, a man of color, is just another actor in a long line of cosmetically palatable faces of corruption and greed.
     
    The bottom line? Well, for industry, it looks good. For the rest of us, we will continue to operate in the red. Only when Americans begin to "see" red will anything truly change, and when that happens, it will not be pretty. Everyone knows that you can only push a man so far before he explodes. Mass rage is not uncommon in history; it takes many shapes and can be manipulated in unthinkable ways.
     
    Say hello to your future, America. Barrack Obama will speed you there with some smooth talking vigor. And while you're embracing your new leader, say hello to your prayer cloth and goodbye to your dreams. §
  • timian
    there is a point be made over and over across conservative blogs and reports everywhere.


    it is the claim that conservatives will show a level of respect for Obama, even though their candidate (GWB) did not get it from liberals.


    here is a news flash.  Obama has only had 2 days to lose your respect.  GWB had 4 yrs to trash his reputation among not only liberals, but many independents as well.  did we show him respect?  not at that point.  not after he showed the nation so little respect by doing whatever he wished, with no thought of his constituents.  the president serves AMERICANS.  ALL of us.  not just his party, or his voters.  so when GWB patronized the small (yet vocal) constituents that are the very conservative, religious right, he alienated millions more.  and for this he got no respect.  


    you can trash Obama all you like, but at least wait until he gives you a good reason.
  • Dora
    someone here recently mentioned the monies involved in the Obama festivities Tuesday - comparing them to Bush's
    - as usual, non-thinkers here like to come to the table with only bits and pieces of  the puzzle then proclaim the picture complete.
    fox noise individuals have spouted this noise as well.

    the tab for Bush's second inauguration, after figuring in security costs, totaled $157 million- Yet it's virtually impossible to find a single press report in the last week that has documented that fact. That number does not exist. It has been suppressed and flushed down the memory hole. Because if it's mentioned alongside the Obama tab, than the Obama's-inauguration-is-historically-expensive storyline evaporates.

    it's amazing how you people claim this moral high ground and with claims to be the ultimate patriot- yet your mentor and adviser in the form of Limbaugh speaks of bending over and grabbing his ankles
    (he must have some familiarity with this as he mentions it so frequently- and is apparently able to do this with "one one hand tied behind his back")  this blubbery, blustering fool of the air waves is calling and hoping for the failure of this new Presidency.  what a pathetic, un-American, drug-induced, small minded  fool you people have elected to serve as your mouthpiece.

    actually,  the more he speaks, and the more you repeat his rambles, the more foolish you all look.  keep it up- your numbers decrease daily.
  • Imbecile joe, the blogger's na
    Let's see how this imbecile forces himself to NOT UNDERSTAND:
    imbecile joe wrote, in the middle of THE LARGEST AMMOUNT OF MEGA$CANDAL$, TERROR RELATIONS, HELPER, AND ALREADY RECOGNIZED IMITATOR (FROM iran's pres. clothing-style to anything)
    and this beast battle "my" name"?,
    Ladies&gentlemen, pay attention to your comming $ociali$t dictatorship (prepare for gulags, because bho already long declared about, "crazy oppositors", writing "rules", acorn logistics (authority):
    joe wrote: "why do people who post here have such stupid names? They sound more like sentences. Can they fit them on their birth certificates, let alone their driver's licenses?"
    birth certificate?, WHAT ON bho's?
    "blogger" joe, smith, I told all of you go blog on castro's granma toiletpaper, this is A CONSERVATIVE SITE, UC, more lib propaganda than conservative comments?, I'm shocked you haven't blocked these late ones.
    Guys on the intelligence, I may have to do with the logistics inside the public lybrary system helping libs erasing and stocking CAN'T work without pringting, ted started it on terror logistic base lybrary at weschester.
    Ah!, joe, this denounces already worked to arrest castro's 30 years old network police psycologist, several sheriffes and gangs (extremely lethal), and teached the world how to use internet against terror HELPERS INSIDE COUNTRIES, internet, another reason the 1st u$$r'u$ deathstar blew up.
    Also, if you haven't realized, People like me have an "unlimited" word world power.
    2ndbluestarmoon, my abstract nanny-nurse-muse will time you out
    And why do their comments look like the ramblings of mentally challenged patients?
    this is what I do all this, and teach, I suspect you are here on this city, and you are from dade, doctor or police?, paralegal?, or "just acorn"?
    ah!, do you think rezco, fahracan (or whatever writes correctly), eyers, and all lib MEGACORRUPTION BEYOND HISTORY gallery, forgotten?
    no consecuences?, worst than the rest of the bho historical megascandals?
    and e-denounced live?
    e-memory?
    you live on the 1st u$$r'u$ "stablishment".
    closing gitmo?  
    no consecuences neather?
    what if ubl is captured?
    where to put him?
    end of the warS?
    in 2 years bho will conveince the world, and the election?
    and pursuing? eternaly? invisible?
  • Paul Richards
    To get our backs up -- and stonewall the recovery actions -- may be fun.  But for whom?  Are we willing t screw up this recovery to prove Obama is wrong?  Who loses?  He has a job.  Millions of Americans have lost or will lose their jobs, real soon.  Now is the time to tell your congressman to save the Republic.
  • pleasehelp
    ML Smith,


    VERY GOOD POST.  I especially liked this little gem:


    Americans saw "change" and that is exactly what they will get...nickels and dimes. In the end, the cloth imprinted with pictures of past presidents will wind up in the same pockets...pockets already over-stuffed with cash...pockets that belong to those who regard America as nothing more than a profit making machine.



    Unfortunately, much of the US citizenry simply cannot understand that the "leaders" they are supporting have very little interest in keeping them safe (physically or economically).  Some of the citizenry does not see that as they play this silly little game of left vs. right, they are all LOSING BY A LANDSLIDE, and have been for many decades.  Get out of the comfortable protection of The Box, do away with your proud Right or Left positions and realize that we are in this together.  The common foe of the American people has become the High Officials (both rep and dem) we support, elect and follow, along with the Corporate Leadership and corporate money THAT DICTATES WHAT THEY DO.  The two-party system that you take sides on is hardly a two-party system at all.  We are following multi-millionaires and billionaires.  Does that not say it all?


    Solution? Start supporting and electing candidates that DO NOT run on a Dem or Rep ticket.
  • JackieM
    Dora--i'll take your word for the cost of Bush's inauguration and still be able to make my point.  four years ago our economy was thriving and unemployment was low.  so obama has the nerve to celebrate himself for another $100MM during a time that people are losing jobs, homes and can't feed their families?  now obama's rhetoric included the fact that he would cut spending.  does this amount of money indicate a cut in spending?  how about Bush's bill that rejects money going out of this country to fund abortions for people overseas?  is this saving money?  are we responsible for everyone all over the world at a time when our country is in turmoil?  he should have picked up the phone and encouraged the leaders of countries to handle abortions in their own countries if that is what they choose.  the phone bill would have been worth the small cost!  both sides are to blame for this mess but two wrongs don't make a right, especially since obama is king of the liberals and is honest and intelligent and lives up to his word!  i don't think so!
  • JackieM
    Dora--by the way I don't listen to Rush and he is not my leader.  i guess robots need leaders?  i'm not sure but i can say that i do not.  however, if Rush said he hopes obama fails, i think he is right to a degree (only to a degree).  i hope obama changes his mind and lets our military protect our country but in light of this week's decisions, i know that he will not.  now it will be down to, "terrorist, if i give you some hot cocoa, will you tell me your secrets?"  however, i want him to fail on his economic plan because it will not work and will not take us out of this recession.  my children and grandchildren will suffer with a heavy, heavy tax burden while those who receive welfare sit on their asses.  (my family works for a living.)  when i say that i don't mean that it is my opinion.  it is basic economics and math!  of course, hundreds of millions of dollars will be spent on contraception and that will really help our economy----NOT!  how stupid!
  • davidwwalters
    Billy Hallowel........
    -i know i have slammed you in the past, but i liked your article.  However, i do want to make a statement about this line:
    <<Most conservatives are, despite the sting that has come with suffering major defeat in recent elections, prepared to give President Obama the respect that American liberals ardently refused to give to President George W. Bush.>>
    Respect is earned, not due from merely occupying a position.  Liberals can respect the position, but not the person, as i am sure conservatives do.

    pleasehelp.......

    <<...............along with the Corporate Leadership and corporate money THAT DICTATES WHAT THEY DO>>
    -Yeah, i like MLSmith too.  Smart guy.  However, i was one of those "Laundromat's".......i gave the O campaign $50, just 'cause my "minder" told me to.
  • Jason
    The reprecussions of Obama's presidency will be a very high price to pay for whatever vague historical achievement it represents.
    http://www.rightklik.net/
  • JackieM
    Jason's post--in the link:  In his pièce de résistance for the week, Obama showed us that he really is a petulant snob.  Obama listened to Republican concerns about his stimulus package during a meeting with congressional leaders on Friday morning, but when His Royal Highness grew weary of questions about the absurdity of "tax rebates" for people who don't pay taxes, it got ugly.  "I won," he said, "I will trump you on that."

    so democrats, what do you say about bipartisanship?  obama is the idiot i have known him to be.  those folks who voted for him have been duped into thinking he is for the people, all people.  ha!  he will listen before turning his back on a big group of people and wasting money our children and grandchildren will have to pay back.  this plan will not work and obama can't guarantee it will work.  however, i disagree on one level.  it will give illegal immigrants jobs.  obviously, liberals love that or the borders would be sealed.  so how are democrats improving this country?  boy, reid, pelosi, dodd, frank and obama are the utimate crooks of the decade.  this is hope and change we can count on!
  • harrysmom
    I disagree with the assessment that Democrats refused to give Bush the respect he deserved.  After September 11, 2001, Bush had unprecedented approval ratings.  90% of Americans were willing to get behind anything he wanted to do.  But he abused that goodwill, and Democrats could not turn a blind eye.  


    On the other hand, I have heard really ugly things coming from the right regarding President Obama and he hasn't even had a chance to earn that disrespect yet.  


    All I'm saying is that you really need to get the historical context right before making arguments.  I'm sure that President Obama will do many things to anger the right, but according to Rush, it seems he won't even have the opportunity to do that before engendering "hope that he fails!"  Nice.
  • davidwwalters
    harrysmom(15).......
    <<.......I disagree with the assessment that Democrats refused to give Bush the respect he deserved...........But he abused that goodwill, and Democrats could not turn a blind eye. >>
    -Yes he did.  My own personal feelings was, though i didn't like the man, he was our president and i actually defended him on blogs from 9-11 to shortly after the Iraq invasion.  It soon became clear that he was inept as a leader.  His lack of action after Katrina & the un-American way that detainees were treated @abu ghraib& Guantanamo sealed  it.  To me, and many Americans Bush's actions were beyond the pale.  This wasn't a Blow Job in the Oval Office......this was way more serious than that.  Bush's actions were every bit as bad as Dick Nixon's. 
    So now we have Mortimer Limbaugh telling his ditto-heads....."hope that he fails!".   Many conservatives on this site share Mortimer's sentiments.  That, is un-American.
  • Vince
    If I drink the Kool-Aid, will that make me American?  Didn't Hillary say that it is patriotic to dissent?  Or does that only apply when it's a white republican in office?

    Perhaps I'll just do volunteer work and collect a check from Uncle Barack.  Will that make me more American than someone who takes risk and sells for profit?

    Twit.
  • Vince
    Showing some link love on http://blog.openlyconservative.com
  • JackieM
    It is un-American to actually understand obama's economic plan and want it to pass.  So i agree with Rush that I hope obama does fail in this situation because the bill WILL NOT solve our problems!  if the bill had a slim chance of working, with some major changes i may agree with it.  however, this bill does not protect small businesses that are failing and laying off people.  it does contain money for contraception and other pork so i guess the democrats are happy about that.  but hey, we can all go dig ditches and watch those who choose to do nothing collect checks while obama sits on his throne and laughs.  he didn't take care of his own proverty stricken grandmother so what makes me think really gives a damn about anyone except himself.  we need to save jobs now and this bill will not do that.  It is only a very temporary bandaid.  king hussein obama knows this but his plan is to push this problem into the future so he will be hailed the great one of something!  so i give obama a chance to wreck this country, and i know it is going to happen but i'm supposed to sit back and not say anything because there is "hope" and "change" on the way?  i don't smoke weed but i think that would be the only way i would even come close to believing this load of crap he is trying to selling.  then i wouldn't care!  so 2 + 2 = 4 and the democrats can't see it is that easy to understand?
  • davidwwalters
    <<It is(is it?) un-American to actually understand obama's economic plan and want it to pass.>>
    -In light of the failures(foreign&domestic) of the past 4 years, let's give him a chance.  Obama goes to Capital Hill and has yet to sign the stimulus bill, JackieM.  Ii had my doubts of Bush's invasion plan from the get-go, but he was our leader.  It was because he didn't correct himself until almost 5 years later that it was patriotic to criticize him.  But never to hope he fails!
  • JackieM
    David--they just confirmed a crook to be over the treasury dept.  obama said that he would not change the provision in the stimulus package whereby folks who don't pay taxes get rebate checks "wefare."  is this bipartisanship?  what do you mean give him a chance?
  • davidwwalters
    <<obama said that he would not change the provision in the stimulus package whereby folks who don't pay taxes get rebate checks "wefare."  is this bipartisanship?>>
    -JackieM, you got me there......BUSTED!
    -This is about as bi-partisan as Bush ramming his tax cuts for the rich......
    Damn!   I thought things were gonna change....
  • JackieM
    David--there were jobs!  so you think giving money to people who don't pay taxes is going to stimulate the economy--not possible!  so the answer is to increase welfare for those who don't want to do better for themselves?  the $500 check is not going to begin to solve their problems!  i don't think so!
  • harrysmom
    JackieM, with all due respect- I really mean that- I sincerely think you ought to rethink your premise that "people who don't earn enough to qualify for taxes" are not doing anything to help themselves.  This is ludicrously unfair.  I actually teach a class in social inequalities and that notion is antiquated, uninformed, and shortsighted.  Some might call it racist or sexist, but I honestly don't think that you are coming from that angle.  I honestly think it's just a matter of being uniformed and joining in a sort of group think culture that may be the result of your environment.  However, if you honestly hold that notion to be true, then maybe you wouldn't be opposed to a little light reading that may give you a different perspective.


    Look up, for example, a classic debate between Davis & Moore and Tumin.  Weigh the points out and see if you can understand how I, and many others, do not see the poor as moral derelicts.  
    thanks.
  • JackieM
    Harry's mom--i had a chance to read some of the theories and i understand that until a person has lived it, no judgements can be made.  i have lived it and my personal experiences were ones of abuse and proverty with parents who didn't want a girl and left me to fend for myself at age 12.  i would consider eating a pack of crackers every other day poverty.  that was me because that was all i could afford to pay for from my salary (i was forced to work at age 12)!  at point one i had no where to live.  i know all about the hardships of life and the environmental impacts, etc.  however, it is all about what a person wants for him/herself and the children they choose to have.  i made it despite very dire circumstances so others can too.  i have offered to hold hands with people and walk them through every step of the way to a better life.  they refuse.  despite all of my efforts, they would rather have kids they can't support and accept government handouts.  i worked hard for every dime i make and expect others to do the same.  there were times that i worked multiple jobs to just exist so others can too!  those who don't pay taxes should not receive handouts.  they are taking resources from the sweat of others.  i have been responsible in my life and expect others to do the same.  what would be the motivation for people to earn more if you keep giving them support?  unfortunately, we have become a society where there is very little shame!
  • davidwwalters
    JackieM(23).....
    -i respect your opinions! (I do, i do, i do!)
    <<David--there were jobs!  so you think giving money to people who don't pay taxes is going to stimulate the economy--not possible!>>
    -Dave Chappelle did a skit once on his program about what would happen if "Black Reparations" were made law and the pay out begins........
    In the skit, formally poor black suddenly have a stash of cash.  The white news announcer (played by a "white-faced" Dave) cites the stock of items stereotypically preferred by black people rising to unprecedented levels.  This was a funny way to point out how "trickle-up" economic stimulus works.  People on the lower end of the economic spectrum will spend that cash.
    Lets say i get an extra $50/ month.   Perhaps i'll purchase an extra sack of weed.  That weed dealer will also have other people buying more weed, so he may decide to purchase a new set of wheels to roll in.  He buys a BMW built in South Carolina(where unemployment is about 9%).......if enough people buy new B-mers, the plant may expand overtime for it employees and now they have more cash to spend.......so-on and so-forth.
    I'll call it econ 201.
    In (25) you stated......
    << however, it is all about what a person wants for him/herself and the children they choose to have.>>
    i don't know about you, but when i was in my 20's(so long ago), it was impossible at times to control certain urges.  When i began to kiss a girl, many times it led to risky behavior........i never chose to make babies, but sometimes it just happened.
    <<what would be the motivation for people to earn more if you keep giving them support?>>
    -But i wasn't a total slug......i dropped out of college and joined the army.  My child and his mom had access to free health care......and i learned a bit about many things(-what a good shot i was with an M-16, that i could actually kill a person......), but mostly i learned about the extravagant waste of tax payers dollars DoD does on a routine basis.
  • harrysmom
    Jackie M,
    Well, thanks for your perspective, but I still hold that it is a perspective derived from anecdotal information.  And where it is very human to utilize your own experiences and observations as the yard stick of social estimation, I was simply offering up the idea that it is still limited to your immediate surroundings.  For example, when considering national policy, is it fair to assume that the limited number of people that you have attempted to help who have refused you are truly representative of all underprivileged citizens in the entire country?  This would be a fair assessment if only there wasn't a great deal of study and research out there that refutes those notions.


    Listen, I'm a single mom and have been through the hardships.  My kids are no stranger to the ramen noodle and frozen veg, and what most people consider basics are luxuries in our family.  I won't recant my sad tale, but I am a big believer in self help.  But just because you and I have pulled ourselves up by our proverbial bootstraps does not give us the authority to condemn those who don't have bootstraps.  Just a thought.
  • JackieM
    Harrysmom and David--

    Did you hear about the mom who just gave birth to 8 babies!  she already had 6 children.  now she has no job, single and is living in a very small house with her parents.  some of her neighbors say she was living off of welfare before the children were born.  now who is going to pay for the hospital bill?  the estimates to raise these 8 children are around $2.5M.  that is exactly what i am talking about.  70% of black children are born out of wedlock.  single mothers are more likely to live in poverty.  now the baby-mama disease has spread and is getting worse.  it has become the norm in some cultures--not mine.  the taxpayers are paying for this.  who is going to pay for their college education?  hmmmm!  we should not have to!  so if you ask me about society, i'll tell you that it has gone down hill along with morals and values!  people have choices!  the government's pocketbook should be closed.  we can't continue to support the same people year after year and welcome their new babies into the world at our expense!  they take no responsibility for their actions and it needs to stop.  have you ever seen a mother with four or five nasty kids in a grocery store with food stamps?  i have hundreds of times.  it is the same ole story--they get angry because they are not allowed to buy certain items with food stamps and stop the line while sending one of their kids back to the meat department to grab a few packs of hamburger to feed to their dogs.  they laugh and say that if the government won't pay for their dog food, they will feed the dog hamburger meat every meal.  it is a sad abuse of our taxpayer dollars.  so we should just be glad to throw our hard-earned money away to support people who refuse to help themselves?  i don't think so!  i will gladly help someone privately if they legitimately need help but the government doesn't need to take my money and decide who needs it!
  • davidwwalters
    JackieM....
    Abuse of government funded programs is not just confined to welfare mamas......i saw government contracts for silly wasteful weapons projects while i was in the Army.  -And let me tell you, that really costs more than a package of hamburger. 
    << i will gladly help someone privately if they legitimately need help but the government doesn't need to take my money and decide who needs it!>>
    But you'll gladly let the government take your money to fund stupid weapons projects, all the while the VA hospitals are a disgrace.....and not a word of it from you or Sean Hanity, or Mortimer Limbaugh.....
  • harrysmom
    JackieM-
    Did you hear about the government employee who installed an 800 thousand bathroom in his government office last year?  800 thousand dollars could easily have paid for raising 8 kids and paid for them to go to college.  


    Again (and again and again and again) you are using anecdotal evidence to support your points.  What about the millions and millions and millions of families living in poverty whose parent(s) go to work each day not knowing if they will get a pink slip with their meager paycheck?  What about the kids whose chances of going to college are never realized because they attend substandard schools who are underfunded by limited local tax revenue?  


    Your thinking is limited.  I think this story about the woman and the 8 babies is very sad. It's clear that she has possible mental health issues and the doctors who assisted her in this endeavor ought to be investigated for ethics violations.
  • harrysmom
    And wait a minute JackieM.... are you seriously arguing that literally HUNDREDS of times, you have been in the grocery store and observed a woman (each time a different one) with a brood of "nasty" kids who send them back for hamburger meat to feed the dogs while laughing at the government out loud so you can hear it?  And you have observed this HUNDREDS of times?  Really?  Really?


    I was trying to be nice, but you are just a hyperbolic liar.
  • JackieM
    Harrysmom--i happened to have worked in a grocery store growing up for years and saw this probably hundreds of times i would say. it became a joke between me and other teenagers that worked there also because they saw it too. those folks bragged about it to the cashiers as if that was going to change the laws. it was really sad and so are you for not seeing the world as it really is and only understanding it from your limited knowledge and what others have "researched." i have friends across the US who also see people taking advantage of the system and complain about the same waste of taxpayer dollars. there are certainly people going to work everyday worrying about losing their jobs and paying their bills. In a normal economy, the difference between people like me and a lot of folks is that we are willing to work two or three jobs or go to school to learn a trade that will pay more. in addition, people like me would not have kids knowing there was not enough income to support them. look at the statistics i sited. these are real and you seem to choose to ignore them. single parents are more likely to live in poverty. duh! that is common sense. so the solution is for people to become more responsible in their family planning and understand the consequences of their decisions. our government should not be supporting folks who continually make bad decisions. go to any low income housing unit and talk to the people who live there and ask the hard questions. you'll get your answers quickly. the baby mama syndrome is everywhere and the expectation is that we the taxpayers pay for their children and calling me a liar is not going to solve the problems. so hide in your world and continue to make up exuses for these folks. i can venture to guess that you have never been chased by a 300+ lb woman trying to steal food and supplies from you that is intended for an elderly blind woman whose house you could not locate. the 300+lb woman said she didn't need to work because the government was keeping her up and she was entitled to the food we had and she was going to beat us up to get it. thank goodness my friend and i made it back to the car and locked the doors or we would have been seriously injured. but hey, i was a young person trying to help others and this is just one instance of the treatment i received. it was worth it in the end though because truly needy people received the supplies they needed to help them through the winter. of course, i have lived in different states and from experience i know that the abuse of our hard-earned taxpayer dollars is everywhere and handouts are expected. there is 90% welfare in my MIL's community in a northern state. most of those folks are perfectly able to work and refuse any kind of help unless it is a handout. my MIL has lived in this community for over 60 years and you are calling her a liar too? so i suggest you go to this area and see for yourself. it is absolutely horrific!
  • harrysmom
    My God you are judgmental and really bitter.
  • JackieM
    You are incorrect in your judgement as usual.  i believe in helping those who can't help themselves and do just that.  however, being a realist is just seeing the things as they are and not through the clouds or other people's eyes.  you are just too funny to acuse me of being bitter.  quite the contrary!  i guess the young, able-bodied woman trying to beat me up over a few groceries didn't happen?  ha!  that is just one of many unfortunate incidents i have run into during my 25 years of giving to others.  i will continue to help those that actually can't fend for themselves.  however, i don't want my taxpayer money to go to those who refuse to take responsibility for their own lives.
  • JackieM
    by the way, there are so many people who happily admit they are taking from the government unnecessarily that i don't have to make judgements.  they tell me.  facts are facts.  maybe you have plenty of money to throw away but i certainly don't.  so maybe you should pay more to support welfare and take the burden off of me!  i'll just continue to ensure my money goes to those people who need it.  i'll also introduce you to a guy that i met in a neighborhood i used to live in who admitted that he was getting disability from the government for a heart ailment but really didn't need it because he was able-bodied and fully functional.  i guess i could see that for myself when he was out mowing his lawn and shoving dirt in his flowerbeds.  he laughed and told me to stay quite about it because he enjoyed his comfortable life and didn't want to work.
  • harrysmom
    well, you just seem to be a magnet for great confessions!  As a social researcher, I could only dream of a world where people to voluntarily admit to being "welfare thugs" and "social misanthropes."  Your knowledge base is astounding.
  • JackieM
    no, my knowledge base is not astounding.  i just live in the real world and see things as they really are.  there are a lot of folks who brag about taking money from the government and not needing it.  i happen to think that is criminal.
  • moses
    Who are "these folks?" (comment 32) Description?
  • Vince
    Ooooh, I'll take this one!  I, too worked at a grocery store and saw the same things...

    These folks are those who game the system.  they are people who collect welfare checks/foodstamps/other government help and drive nicer cars than those of us who get off our asses and work.  Race, if that's what you were trying to get at, doesn't matter.  There's scumbags of all colors.
  • JackieM
    Vince--thanks for the backup!  oh, but there are people here who are teachers and have researched this.  They have concluded that these kinds of folks can't help themselves!   you know, these folks are educated so they know know everything based on research and books!  hahahahahahah!  i couldn't resist because the subject is so stupid!  if a person actually lives, he/she will see lots of people taking advantage of the system.  oh, but liberals continue to increase welfare and waste taxpayers' hard-earned money!  the welfare bill (stimulus) proves it!  very few jobs relative to the amount of money spent and only $13/week in taxpayers' pockets.  i can only look forward to the next election when democrats are out!
  • davidwwalters
    JackieM (40)......
    <<
    if a person actually lives, he/she will see lots of people taking advantage of the system.
    >>
    But
    if you actually have some insight to go along with that "worldly wisdom" you'd understand that the biggest chunk of change that you and i pay for isn't fraud in the Dept. of Human Services.  No, far more money is wasted in DoD (Defense dept.), checks sent out to contractors, not for hundreds of dollars, but checks in ten's of millions of dollars.  But for some reason, this is OK......why is that?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/world/middlee...