There is no...read my lips NO excuse in any nation that claims to be civilized to execute anyone for anything.

Most of the free world has long since abandon capital punishment as barbaric. I don't want my tax money or reputation tarnished by 'legalized murder" in my name.

We will never be considered as a civilized nation so long as we permit the state to kill people. Where are all the "right to life" people hiding when we talk of executions? Are they hypocrites?

This is where I see the big disconnect in the "right wing" of American. Many claim to be Christians...the commandments say "Thou shalt not kill". Those commandments hang in the Supreme Court, mostly ignored.

People say ( falsely? ) that God made man in his image...Is this true to those who go to church? Does God make junk? If you think he does then he is not perfect. If you think he cannot make junk then what right do we have to kill anyone we mere humans think is unworthy of a life we did not grant in the first place?

By executing someone we say to God, you made a mistake but that's ok...we will fix it for you.

Re: One thing is clear: The five members of the court who issued the opinion do not share the same ’standards of decency’ as the people of Louisiana.

I can say one more thing. I'm glad I don't live in Louisiana !

The Court is correct this time just as they are correct in protecting habeas courpus. It seems some of them actually read the Constitution.

Freddy Kruger .... your anti christian sentiement is of course expected. You sorry individual, you have nothing in your life to stand for. I feel sorry for you...

you say, "I can say one more thing. I'm glad I don't live in Louisiana !"

I wonder why...is it because you like Children?

While I am for the death penalty for child rapists, I believe the best suitable punishment for these sick, deviant individuals is life in prison in the general prison population with NO chance of parole.

Child rape victims have to live the rest of their lives with their attack. Make these perverts live the rest of their lives in the most miserable and dangerous prison that exists. I call it equal justice under the law.

Paul Kruger, you say, "It seems some of them actually read the Constitution." Really? Where does it outlaw the death penalty in the Constitution? Where does it say that murderers and child rapists are protected by the Constitution once they are convicted?

Why can people not pass laws that truly fit the crime? Rape is a violent crime worse in most cases than murder. People say that the victim is still alive but is that relay true. In many case the person that who raped is no longer alive and that person becomes changed for the rest of their live.

Now let us introduce that violent crime being committed on a child. How does child who is not mentally prepared to try to deal with the resulting mental trauma of rape. The child who many times can be lead astray by adults and many times by their own relatives and spend the rest of their tormented live thinking that they did something wrong.

I say that we must protect our children and let criminals know that the harshest punishment must be handed out to criminals that prey on our children.

Re: "Rape is a violent crime worse in most cases than murder. "

I assume you have no children or you would not suggest that if your child is assaulted the rapist should go ahead and finish the job by murdering your child.

If he/she knows that she can be executed even if they don't murder the victim why would then not kill on the chance that by doing so, they could avoid identification and capture? After all what do they have left to lose?

I am not surprised people are so hung up on killing other humans. It is a part of human nature to hold on to hate and revenge that perhaps someday we will outgrow. I don't expect humans to advance very quickly however.

"I assume you have no children or you would not suggest that if your child is assaulted the rapist should go ahead and finish the job by murdering your child."

Your reasoning has no basis. If that were truly the case, then we couldn't punish any criminal at all because as they commit the crime they are going to exact punishment on the victim that would be appropriate to the penalty they would get should they get caught.

99% of criminals never expect to get caught. Therefore it is unreasonable to expect that as the criminal commits his rape he will kill the victim as revenge for the penalty he will get should he be caught.

This is a weak argument and gives precedence to the criminal over the victim which is what the majority of anti-death penalty persons want, more protection of the rights of the perp over the victim.

When we don't exact the death penalty, society winds up with more violent offenders. In case by case studies of states with no death penalty, the homicide rate is higher per capita. There is no denying the death penalty works. When you DON"T have a death penalty, criminals have less fear of the justice system.

I'm surprised y'all religious folk dont get this idea.

WE CANT BE GOD. It is not for us to decide who lives and who dies. The death penalty is not just for any crime. Why do we think we are such an authority to end someone's life? WE DONT

@wade please inform yourself.

you are not entitled to your own facts.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=168#stateswithvwithout

"When we don't exact the death penalty, society winds up with more violent offenders. In case by case studies of states with no death penalty, the homicide rate is higher per capita."

You have this statistic backwards. States WITH death penalty have higher homicide rates. Thanks for the link from "toe" above.

If 99% don't expect to get caught that in itself says capitol punishment is useless as a deterrent. You just lost your own argument.

Capitol punishment remains a barbaric throw back to old times. It is not and has never been a deterrent to crime and serves only the debasing need of humans to exact revenge on another. Oh yea...it helps politicians prey on peoples weakness for revenge to buy votes.

We can never progress as a species until we quit our desire to kill each other.

I'm not entitled to my own facts? What the heck does that mean? For every site you show me statistics I can show the opposite. After checking sites dealing with death penalty statistics it appears fairly even. I would surmise that both sides tend to skew statistics in favor of their stance on the death penalty.

Heathenhater, we do have the right to decide who lives and who dies. And your right, the death penalty isn't for any crime. We are talking the two vilest crimes here. Murder and rape of a child. Both those are worthy of the death penalty although I would rather see a child rapist spend life in prison without parole. A much better and fitting punishment.

so, Toe. What do you suggest we do with child rapists? Rehab maybe? Go ahead and reference your opinion with some random web site too.

Go ahead and post the link to your statistics page showing that states WITH death penalty have lower murder rates. Or that show capitol punishment has been proven to deter crime. Like the link provided above, there should be sources cited for the information.

I'm open to seeing those stats. I tried to find them in Google but could not find them.

Also, click this link... http://www.winfieldbaptistchurch.com/images/The_Ten_Commandments_lg.gif Refer to line VI.

What does the fine print say?

I'm fully aware of the Ten Commandments, and if you are going to throw scripture at me, God commands that those who murder be put to death.

Forgot the rest.

Genesis 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man' brother will I require the life of man.

For the full context of this, God was referring to the very first murder, when Cain murdered Able.

@Paul Kruger

Your arguments are weak, very weak. And for being an Anti-Christian as you are, why do you find it necessary to try and teach other what the Ten Commandments mean.

My reasoning on the death penalty is this: is it more humane for the perpetrator to live the rest of his life with no prospects, confined to a cell with a bunch of other angry people, or is it more humane to just relieve him of that future and end his life? The fact is that someone who commits violent crimes like that is probably going to do it again, so the last thing on society's mind should be rehab for them. This fact is shown by the myriad judges who pardon violent criminals...only for those same criminals to find the courts again.

I personally see no reason to let the person live. It isn't revenge, it isn't hate. It is simply a question of "what else can we do with them?" Like I said, life in prison is a more torturous prospect than any death penalty.

Reaper, although I agree with you for the most part, pedophiles are a whole different class of sub-human. The victim has to live the rest of their life with what the perp did to them, so make the perp live the rest of his life in those conditions, it is fitting.

Paul, you said, "We can never progress as a species until we quit our desire to kill each other." This is never going to happen. It is human nature, yet we still progress despite it. Maybe we don't progress the way YOU want humanity to progress, but we still do.

You also said, "If 99% don't expect to get caught that in itself says capitol punishment is useless as a deterrent. You just lost your own argument." You totally misunderstood that. 99% of criminals don't expect to get caught, therefore it is unreasonable to expect them to kill just because they are afraid of capital punishment. They aren't afraid. Besides being a 25 year veteran firefighter I was also a police officer. 100% of the criminals I caught were surprised they got caught. They all thought that they would get away with the crime they committed. Even if I am wrong about capital punishment being a deterrent, that is only one part of the argument. Execution is a just punishment for murderers.

As far as the Ten Commandments, God says it is wrong for a single human being to take the life of another. God uses society to punish man for killing man. You can't take one verse out of the Bible and say that God is saying all murder is wrong. God, throughout the Bible, uses capital punishment to teach that murder is wrong and the only just punishment for it is the life of the person who committed the murder.

That last paragraph was very enlightening, Wade! I really should read the Bible; it is amazing the breadth of information it really addresses.

Also, it seems to me that the "punishment should fit the crime" mantra is only of use to those who will re-enter society. Giving that to people who won't enter society (i.e., life in prison w/o parole), to me, just seems like a waste of taxpayer money. Last I heard it takes roughly $20k per year per prisoner; I've heard that that number has risen, too. That's a hefty price tag just to make someone suffer. Of course most death row people spend in excess of a decade awaiting that fate anyways, so maybe it isn't as big a deal as I'm making it out to be.

It's too bad that Mark Dean Schwab in Florida just didn't dismember little Junny. If he hadn't have killed him, then he would not have been executed. So, for all you child rapists out there, just take it as close to death as possible, but don't cross this line. Remember, you have to be a child murderer to get the death penalty. So, just don't kill anyone, maiming is okay. Then, you can hang out in prison, and maybe be back in business with the help of a nice parole board.

I'm only going to make one comment. The constitution never gave the Supreme Court the right to pass any law, only to exact the law. No court system ever had the right to create or pass law.

I'm only going to make one comment. The constitution never gave the Supreme Court the right to pass any law, only to exact the law. No court system ever had the right to create or pass law in the U. S.

Just some corrections before giving my opinion.

Bobby G - Your correct the Supreme Court does not have the power to pass or enact any law but it does have the power to demean a state or federal law unconstitutional, which is what it did.

Reaper - Your absolutely right to be appalled by how much it costs to imprison someone, but then we brought this on ourselves. I mean why do we have SO many people in jail for nonviolent non-trafficking drug charges. I am not saying that we should legalize all drugs or any other such nonsense but come on do we really need to put someone away for 5 years simply because they were caught with half an ounce of crack! Take the drugs away through him in county lock up for a couple weeks and let him go, trust me he is going to be more upset about losing his crack then about going to jail.

Also why dont we do more job training in our prisons? The vast majority of people in prison aren't their for violent crimes, lets train them to do something and then sell the their products or services to help pay for their imprisonment, if they dont want to work take away their privileges. This will also help decrease repeat offenders as well.

Also last I check (this was a couple of years ago) putting people on death row actually costs MORE money then putting them in prison for life without parole. If I remember correctly this is due to the fact that death row inmates are kept in isolation and are required to go through numerous appeal proceedings (this last bit is something I actually agree with given the severity of the punishment that is going to be leavened on the defendant).

Wade - "Paul Kruger, you say, "It seems some of them actually read the Constitution." Really? Where does it outlaw the death penalty in the Constitution? Where does it say that murderers and child rapists are protected by the Constitution once they are convicted?"

I believe he is referring to the 8th amendment which provides among other things protection from cruel and unusual punishment. This has been used before to stop the use of certain death penalties, specifically the electric chair if I remember correctly. While not a view point I agree with it does make several good points in the debate on the use of capital punishment.

Now for my take.

Personally I am for capital punishment, I believe that their are crimes and circumstances in which the taking of a life is justified. That being said I believe that capital punishment is not an effective deterrent and that it is used FAR too often in the United States. I must also express some apprehension when shown some of the statistics on who makes up death row inmates, especially when confronted with statistics that show black males make up the vast majority of death row inmates when they only make up a very small portion of the overall populations in the United States, personally I dont think they are all their because of the 'white man' but it does make me about the still present racism problem we have in the United States.

I have to say that I dont agree with the use of capital punishment against child rapists even given the extreme violence usually used and the lose of innocence caused. Now before everyone jumps on me realize that I am not in favor of just letting these people go in my opinion they should be given 20+ year terms with no chance of parole before 20 years. But in my opinion the death penalty is just not justified in this circumstance, now there are some circumstance in which I think it could be justified one example would be if a child was hurt so badly that she was put into a vegetative state but was still technically alive (this is a circumstance in which I would agree with the use of capital punishment).

Before leaving I think I have to address one other comment

Wade - "Why can people not pass laws that truly fit the crime? Rape is a violent crime worse in most cases than murder. People say that the victim is still alive but is that relay true. In many case the person that who raped is no longer alive and that person becomes changed for the rest of their live."

I must say that I am appalled by the fact that you seem ready to compare a rape victim with a murder victim. While a rape victim undergoes an truly horrible experience in the end they still have a chance on regaining at least some portion of their life, a murder victim does NOT. I find it very disturbing that you are so ready to dismiss so many people as being no better off then being dead!

I am happy to see so many people at least engaged in this discussion. It proves the point that there are many opinions and strong feelings about this subject.

For those who though a personal attack on me was a justified response...well those by and large were the same people who believe in killing people to. Point taken that if someone does not agree with you...attack them.

On the positive side are people with open minds willing to discuss the matter and weigh the alternatives. The links to the facts provided are backed up so if no one wants to accept them, that's an indication of a closed mind.

If someone thinks my objection to capitol punishment has anything to do with sympathy for the accused they are wrong. My sympathy lies with the society that clings to violence as a method of solving problems. Executions on the small scale and war on the large scale.

I mentioned the Ten Commandments not as a religious argument but as a point of irony for having them displayed in our courts. But our courts and our system of government is not based on any particular religion. This is not a religious argument but a social one.

Someone above sticks the the knowledge that we are violent and that this is human nature...so embrace it. [ I par phrased ] But if that is the argument how to explain that "humans" in most developed nations were able to rise above that failing and abolish capitol punishment? I assume that person means that the violent trait is uniquely American, not human after all.

Any way...keep talking. Better to let it all out than keep it bottled up. It is interesting to see how many people will fight tooth and nail to find as many reasons as possible for killing other human beings ! I am proud of those willing to find ways to NOT kill and a bit dismayed at how many revel in the violence of man with no intention of changing.

Permanent incarceration for a child rapist is too good for the rapist.  Nothing can ever get that child's innocence, feeling of safety, back ever again.  That child is robbed of something so precious, that even death is too good for a rapis.  Put them in the general population of a prison of the toughest meanest murderers, and let them take care of the rapist.

to Kevin who said,

"People say that the victim is still alive but is that relay true. In many case the person that who raped is no longer alive and that person becomes changed for the rest of their live."

Yes Kevin, it is indeed true.  They are still alive.  The doctors make quite sure of that before they can be released.  Are they traumatized?  Sure they are, but still around to mend.  

Capital punishment is reserved for Capital crimes.  There's a period at the end of that sentence.

out.

@ HOBOBOH,

In the clinical sense they are alive, that much is a given and goes without saying. What he is asking is, are they alive inside, in mental status, and are they alive at heart. The answer for many victims of rape, especially children, is no. They may still be around to "mend" as you put it, but that mending takes a lifetime.

"Are they traumatized?  Sure they are, but still around to mend."

That just sounds cold.

To me, the problem with the death penalty for a child rapist is the following--it provides an incentive for child rapists to kill their victims.  If there is no ADDITIONAL penalty for murder, what is there to deter all of these heinous individuals from murdering their victims to silence them?

Jeremy makes a valid point.  the death penalty will give them no reason to keep the victim alive.  

Yes Wade, I knew what "alive" meant.  I was being a little sarcastic.  It's just that society cannot take life for mental strife.  that's a slippery slope indeed. 
What's next?  
Keep the capital punishment for capital crimes.  Of course a little more speed in the execution would be nice.  Good luck with that one.

out. 

Rapists are  repeaters most the time. California makes big money from the Feds for prisons, but it's not enough. We are broke among other things because we have so many people in prison. The whole San Juaquin valley is one prison after another. Why? because the punishment is not enough, and things that really are terrible get no more weight than a theft.  

I know of a case where a METHHEAD analy raped an infant until it's heart gave out from pain and trauma. Maybe this court doesn't have a clue what horror it is to be a victim. The death penalty should be given to child rapists, and they should tortured first!

Molest a child, rape a child...damn right you ought to be executed and then if there is a GOD in heaven you ought to rot in the fires of hell eternally. All this "hug a thug" mentality is from cowards.